 The other thing that Andrani and I are enjoying and we're taking it. We could easily just watch it in a single day, but we're, we're watching it an episode a day is the fall of the house of usher. Mike Flanagan series on Netflix. For those of you who've seen it, particularly, uh, I believe it's in episode three. Flanagan's writing, man, everything about Flanagan. He's just a master and his writing. He has this, there's this monologue about lemons. Frickin' A. I, when it ended, I turned to John. I said, that's one of the best monologues I've ever heard. So highly recommend it. Have you seen anything of Mike Flanagan's? Have you been talking to me this whole time? Idiot. Hey, welcome back to our stupid or X with Corbin. I'm Rick, follow the Instagram, Twitter for more juicy content. Thank you to every sports and patron. Follow us with your Twitter account, subscribe and like button. And today we got a, um, Kiran Johar interview. Great. Uh, and this was one that was released just a few days ago because of, for the 25th anniversary of Coach Coltai, he talks about his whole career, a bunch of different, uh, stuff throughout his career. Cool. Uh, also, uh, I don't know if you saw who they released for the first guests of, I have not seen that, I have not seen the guest list. If it was sent to me and I, I would avoid it because I don't want to have spoils. So. And first, Oh, great. Their first time combined on the show. That's awesome. Uh, that'll be so fun to watch. Uh, so it'll be absolutely wonderful. I'm very excited about that. When does that start? When does the first episode drop? It's soon, isn't it? November, something? I think it's actually Thursday. Oh, okay. Awesome. Um, I think we get it on Hulu, right? That's where we got it last time, right? I don't remember that because we don't have a hot star here. We used to. Yeah. Then they took that away. They went bye-bye. Um, but anyways, it went the way of the dodo bird. Uh, and this is from Pink Villa is the channel. They're a big Indian news or whatever. I don't know what they're classified as, but they're big. Uh, but I don't know if we've actually seen an interview from them. This is actually technically called a, uh, I think they call it a master class. Okay. Comparable to what Vishal did. Yeah. Where that's just a, it's a group and there's a moderator and they're asking questions in front of an audience. Wow. How did you know that? Plus is with someone whose cinema has left an cultural impact, not just in India, but across the border. 25 years back, he made his debut with Kuch Kuch Hota and literally did you know that 16th October, 1998, wow, I didn't, I wish you would have talked more. Yeah. October, 1998 will change his and our lives forever. So ladies and gentlemen, can we all put our hands together for Caranjo? You could argue he's one of the most impactful directors in all of India. Yeah. Thank you. Can't believe it's been in terms of his impact on just everything. My God. Yes. 20, what, what, what? Silva Jubli, I should have worn my shiny silver jacket in the right. Silva Jubli, my God, I feel like that was a different era. I felt like I, I feel like I was a different person. Like it doesn't feel like when I see like some making clippings and you know, a lot of those, unfortunately, in the deluge, we had a go down in Malakshmi and all without any backups, unfortunately, a lot of our making footage, a lot of our stills, a lot of those memories during the making of Kuch Kuch Hota, I just went, we have nothing, we have nothing. We had so many, you know, so much BTS and so many behind the scene interviews, moments captured, you know, that we were doing it like the AD team was doing it, we have nothing. And you know those days, we weren't smart enough to have a backup, which was silly of us. But like, so unfortunately, I have nothing. But the memories are intact. They entrenched in my, in my, in my memory bank, yeah. So firstly, thank you again, sir, for attending this Pinkvilla master class. Thank you for having me. So you know, my first question to you is, you started shooting for Kuch Kuch Hota probably when you were at 25 years old, I think. 24. 24 years old. Do you remember the process of putting this entire setup together? It was one of the biggest ensemble film ever. So. Oh, God, everyone's seen the film here, right? Okay. Look, here it is. More than once. I haven't seen it. Put your hand up. There she is. Yeah, I was right. It has to be that it's the Gen Z kids. I have one, two, three, four. Do me a favor. Please watch it. Please watch it right now on your phone. It's available on Netflix and Amazon. And I think you might have a good time watching it, you know, especially after our conversation. Let me tell you, it was very bizarre. I was an AD on Dilwali Dulaniya leh jayenge. And it was one of those moments, you know, Shah Rukh and I, you know, I got really close during the making of the film. And, you know, I was much of I was lost and scared on the sets of that film because I'd never been on a film set prior to that. And it was Aditya Chopra that actually made me become an AD. And he convinced my family and because my I was all set to go somewhere else to study. And my mother was really worried that this was not the profession for me. And she my father thought that my temperament wasn't cut out to be in the movie. She says you're too soft-natured. And, you know, I don't know what she thought that would happen to me when I entered Bollywood. So somehow the other Adi convinced her and, you know, I began my journey as an AD. And when I joined in as an AD, I wanted to be a costume designer. So my first assignment was to do Shah Rukh's clothes. And that's how I actually got close to Shah Rukh, you know, in the process. And then one day in Switzerland, when we were shooting, I don't know, what am I saying, calling you? Yeah, I've seen you, I've seen you. It's all in blood, on the top of a mountain in Switzerland. We were waiting for Kajal, actually, to get into costume and come. And he looked at me and he said, you know, when you do your first film, I want to do it as an actor. And I had like half experience on the making of that film. So I was like, he's just being polite because it's cold. Everyone's missing home. Everyone's being nice to each other. So I was like, yeah, of course. And then Kajal joined in and she's like, what are you talking about? And Shah Rukh said, you know, if Karan does his first film, I'll do it. She said, yeah, then so will I, it'll be fun. And it was just left of that. And I was like, I went back and told Adi, like, you know, they're just being sweet. And like, you know, why would anyone want to film with me after one film of experience? Like, I even I don't know if I'm equipped. When I got back from the outdoor, Shah Rukh called my dad and he said, you know, he called my father, Tom Uncle, we don't know why. And he said, Tom Uncle, my next film after duplicate, because he was already doing duplicate for my dad. He was like, that film I will do, which Karan will direct. And I'll start that in October 1997. So my father was like, but like Karan I don't know much about it. Now it's Adi. He'll take five or six years. He'll see even after that if he wants to do it. He's not your son, director. And I'll do it. Tell him, just bring the story. So then my mother was like, you don't know anything. What is Shah Rukh talking about? So I said, I don't know. He's just being sweet, I suppose. Crazy that Shah Rukh called specifically. He released October 19th, 1995. And it was the 20th, one of the 20th, 20th. The very next week he followed up with me and he was shooting with Chahat. And he was like, come and tell me what story you had. And I had no story. I had no story. But I lied to him and I said I did. I was like, I don't lose this opportunity. Yeah, if Shah Rukh says, show me a story. You come up with a story. Pooja for a song for Bhatsabh. And I just randomly, while flying to Jaipur, I thought of the scene between a father and daughter, you know, in this jam. The scene that is there between Shah Rukh and... I just thought, I narrated that moment to him and he said, okay, write the whole film. I went and I took a year to write Kuch Kuch Hota Hai. And it was first two stories, which I merged into one. And I narrated it to them in April, 1997, to Shah Rukh and Kajal and me. And nobody else had heard it. And I really thought that they'd throw me out, you know, literally after that narration, because I didn't know what I was narrating. But at the end of the film, he was like, yeah, we start October. And that's what we did. We started October. The big struggle happened in casting Tina. And then Aman, which was Salman and Rani's roles. So for Tina, I went to about eight main lead actresses and all of them said no. I first went to Tina herself, Twinkle, because I was very close to her and I wrote the character keeping her in mind. But she said no and subsequently many, but everyone literally said no to me. And I said, now I'll have to wear that orange skirt and walk into college because like, no one's gonna do that part. Ironically, Aditya Chopra had seen the promo of a film called Raja ki aegi baarat. And he called me and he said, you should go and meet Rani Mukherjee. I think she's going to be a star. So I met her and I rated the film and she also said, give me two days to think. So I was like, you know, now it's over, no one's gonna do that. Two days later, she called me and she said, how will you convince an audience that Shah Rukh is in love with me over Kajal? Because Shah Rukh and Kajal are the queen of all. And I was like, it's true. It's my first film, I'll do everything. I'll work very hard to convince. So she said, I'm going with your conviction. And she came on and literally then I went to everybody else for Salman's role and nobody said yes to me. I met Salman at a party at the Chunky Pandey's party and he was like, you know, only an absolutely confident person will do this film and I'm that person. Why did you come and meet me tomorrow? I went and narrated the film to him. At the first half, he said, I'm doing it. But I said, but Salman, you come in the second half. He's like, no, I don't care. I know where it's going and I'm doing it. I really like your dad and I like your energy and I'm doing the film. And I walked out of there and I was like, Salman Khan is doing this film. And I called up Adi, you know, and he was like, oh my God, the film just got really big. And, you know, there was already Shah Rukh in Kajal and Rani was this promising new actor, Shetal Ghulam. And we started shooting in October 1997. With no hiccups, Himesh, the film was ready in July. And on my 25th birthday, we were shooting the summer camp portion and it released October 16th. And it was just the most surreal moment of my entire life. I wasn't there actually when it was released. We had some threatening calls at that time. So me and my parents had to fly out on the opening night itself because for security purposes, we just needed to be. So I never saw the film in back home at all. I used to just have friends who would call me and, you know, put the phone on the audience and Salman enters or any big moment in the film. And I would just literally have tears coming down because I wasn't there and I couldn't see it. So I went to see it in London a couple of times, but it just didn't feel the same. Like it's sad that I've not seen kuch kuch hota hai with an audience in my country. When I came back after six weeks, it was the award season time and, you know, and then, yeah, and like winning those awards. I remember holding that first Filmfair award and I was like, I couldn't breathe first because I, you know, it was just like, I don't think I can describe that moment because as a child, you've always imagined, you know, being on that stage, winning that award. Seeing your dreams come true. We all have dreams, right? We all want to go somewhere with our lives. And this was an impossible dream in my head. And when it came true, I was like, I don't think it gets better than this. And I just had to be grateful to the universe for everything that happened because when I see the trajectory, I'm like, I don't know how this happened. I was not meant to be here. Aditya Chopra convinces me. Shahrukh Khan does the film, Kajal does the film, Salman Khan does the film, Rani Mukherjee does the film. The film gets made. And people kind of like it. Barring the five people here, you haven't seen it. People liked it and like it kind of grew in pop culture and like I really still feel like when I, I haven't seen the film in a really long time but I really don't know how things happened. Like I don't know when you asked me how the story came to me or any of that. I can't give you any explanation. Just destiny. It was also just a lot of my love for Hindi cinema. There's so much of Yash Chopra in there. There's so much of Suraj Parjathya. There's so much of Raj Kapoor. So many influences I've had as a kid. I just like, for me, just that film was like one big dream. But sir, you know, like you said that the casting, like Shahrukh came and he said, he's doing your film. You went to Salman, he said, he's doing the film without even hearing the second half. Do you think casting back then was easier and it is much more mechanical now? Oh yeah. Oh my God. People were like so much more, it was on faith, trust and energy. Today I'm like, actors take too long and take themselves way too seriously sometimes. And I'm like, yeah, sometimes you've got to just take that plunge. You know, in those days, it was just about the energy between director and actor and between a narration. Like, you know, it was sometimes we didn't have, like do you know, there's no, there's no full bound script of kuch kuch hota that exists. I used to narrate it, I had never written it. So when the film released, Nikhil had one, he had to write the screenplay out from the film. But we didn't have a screenplay. Like I used to write scenes on, like those days we weren't even on the computer. We edited on the steam deck, there was no avid. It was like I used to write in Hindi on pages and say rocks those pages and send them to the actors. We used to write and many a time we like changed scenes last minute. I would change and add dialogues because it was just like actors were there on good faith. It was like you said so much easier and people used to do films for love sometimes. Today, I suppose there's love and lots of money that's required for the film. But kuch kuch hota changed the lives of each and every person associated with the film. How did it change for you? Did it add pressure for your second film which you made, which was K3G? Yeah, I mean, because the film had achieved, you know, success and I was very grateful. Then I think I remember telling my father that I want to work with Mr. Bachchan, Mrs. Bachchan, Shah Rukh Kajal, Rithik Roshan and Kareena Kapoor and he thought I'd gone mad. He looked at me and he said, son, make a single film. Don't plan three, three projects. I said, no, these are all in one film. So he was like, what? He said, what is this movie? So I was like, it's a family saga and I really wanted this cast. And I went one morning with the story to Shah Rukh first and he said, I don't need to know. I'm on for the film. Went to Kajal, she was shooting at Filmistan Studios, the second meeting and she heard it and she was like, I'm on. I went to Mr. Bachchan, met him and he was very gracious and kind and wonderful. Then I left Mr. Bachchan's house and I called up Jayanti and I said, I want to meet you. She said, but you were just here. So I was like, no, I'm coming in a professional capacity. So I came back and I narrated the film to her. The idea, I mean, the long form idea of it and she was like, I can never say no to you. I went to Dugu's house and Kahuna Pyare hadn't released but I had a lot of faith in him. And he was like really happy and excited to be on. And my last meeting of the day was with... What are they called? Go to. I met her and she was like, I was like, hello, and she was on. Like she was like, yeah, like we're doing it. Like I want to know the story. Just tell me, you know, when it's time. So the interesting part is that I signed all six actors on one day. All on the same day. Wow, such a different time. And it was the best day of my life. And that's how easy it was. You know, it was just wonderful that actors came on on energy, faith, trust and belief. When the film released, The Restless Streets, like one of the biggest blockbusters that we have seen till date. But Karan Nasa, I remember that back in the day, you had given an interview where you said that all through the year, in the start first of the year, people were saying K3G is the biggest film of the year. And then suddenly came Gadar, which changed the title in that year and that added immense pressure on you. Oh, Gadar came that same year, huh? And I'd like to share this with everyone. You know, the lessons you get in life can really ground you. And I feel like that year for me was very critical, not for me just as a filmmaker, but for me as a human being. I feel very strongly that, you know, when you start flying, there is sometimes destiny or sometimes circumstances where you're saying that, you know, stay in your place. Because success and failure, both can happen in your life. And you know, when you get success easily, there is still a struggle to maintain it or to achieve it. That year, the big me of the year, for some reason, I was like, I was like, I'm making the biggest film of the year. Like, what's gonna get bigger than this? I'm gonna sweep all the awards. In my head, these were all my thoughts. I wasn't saying it loud. But I was thinking it. And I was very fun footed. And then I saw Lagan in June, what a year? When it released. And I walked out and I was like, I think I've seen a cinematic marvel. Like I feel it'll be down in the ages as one of the best feature films ever made. I was blown away by it. And I was like, mine is like nothing. But then I saw Ghandar the next day. And I went crazy about its commercialness and its solidness. And the audience was going crazy. And then I saw Lagan again. And the theater became a cricket stadium. Then I was like, I took a break. And I was like, okay, now I went back to my film. And then I went and saw Chandni Baal. And it was one of the most respected films of the year. Wow, what a year. Geez. Dil Chattahai came out the year? He was a naughty bratty kid. I was like, what is this? Is this like the greatest year in Hindi cinema? And I was like, oh my God. I thought I was cool with that cool chain. I'm like far from cool. What is really cool is Dil Chattahai. Genuinely, the cool syntax of cinema started from Dil Chattahai. By the end of it, I was like from becoming the front footed filmmaker, I felt like I was the underdog. And then Kabir Kushi came out and released. And we had really bad reviews. Like everyone was like old wine, new bottle, same thing, churned over. And I was actually really depressed when it released. I remember there was a trade critic who, there were only two or three critics in those days, trade analysts. And he gave a really bad review to the film. And he wrote at the end, overall the film will disappoint all concerned. And I was like, I remember reading and my friend came in to my, it was Saturday evening. And I was like, my film's gonna flop. Like it's gonna flop. Like he said it, that he knows the numbers. Like it's gonna flop. What's going on? Instead of taking me like, you know, somewhere to kind of get fresh air, he took me to a sidekick. And the sidekick is pulling cards out from me and I'm crying. And I'm like, what's gonna happen? And then I called Anil Tharnani, who was my, who's a massive distributor, producer and exhibitor. And I called him and he was like, Karan, are you going crazy? This is pre-eat. They just wait for Monday. You know, when your eat holiday kicks in on Monday, you'll see those days we have only single screens, right? So it was a big impact when you released before on during the Ramzan time. And on Monday, I said, what do I have to expect? He said, Monday, if your advance is good for the second week, that means you're home. So I was like, I didn't have to come Monday. I walked to a temple. I was very dramatic in my head. I was like, my god, it's gonna flop. My dad had told me, this film flops. We have to go back to our old house because we put all our money into this thing, whatever we made on kuch kuch hotai. And imagining us like, you know, my mother and my father and me with suitcases leaving that girl, you know, that Hindi film scene, you know, you're turning around in background music is very sad and you're looking at that last. And I was visualizing all the time. Can't do anything. Not dramatic. The Lane of Liberty is next to Bombay Hospital. Liberty is where the film was playing. And there was like a massive traffic jam, you know, and I was like getting very anxious because Anil Tarani was meeting me at the cinema. And I just turned around and I said to someone, I said, why is this traffic? You know, he said, advance booking is online. So I was like, what? I said, for which picture? He said, this is a family picture. Sometimes it's something. And he was very irritated. Because he was also stuck in the traffic. And like in high speed, you've seen those heroines run. Like I have run like that through the traffic, literally to Anil Tarani. And he took me to the household board. And it was all household for week two. And I was like, so then the film is a hit. He said, call all the distributors now. He said, your film is a massive hit. So I was like, oh God, okay. So I called everybody buying the Punjab distributors. He said, but it's not like Gattar. Right. Yeah. So funny. So I was like, oh my God. Thank God. But then you know, the award season, which I had so enjoyed with Cooch-Cooch. And I want to know who will be coming, who will be coming. I wasn't even nominated for a couple, I think. That was like a really grounding experience for me. I fell back, you know, back on my feet and realized, and that life lesson that I learned still keeps me on instead today. Because I realized that you've got to just work and don't expect anything from the beginning because there's no replacement to hard work. Nothing else. But so through the 25 years, you have made seven films. You have a hundred percent track record, seven hit films. When you look back at all the seven films, is there anything which surprised you the most? It was not surprising, but I was a bit like taken aback with the moral policing for Kabir Alvidana, right? Thank you. I thought that I was making an unusual subject. It was about infidelity and, you know, I was also deconstructing Shahrukh's absolutely pure image, you know, and, you know, showing the clear side of life. Thursday night, I went to see, it was a preview at AdLabs. And there was a scene, there was a very traditional couple and I was sitting behind them. And there was a scene when Shahrukh and Rani check into a hotel room, you know? So there was this lady who looked at her husband like that and he said, dream sequence chain. So she got pacified with the fact that he had dream sequence. Actually, they can't really step outside the boundary of their marriage. When they realized it was not a dream sequence, they left. They left? They all, they both got up and walked out. And I was like, oh my God, the reality of like, you know, judgment hit me. And then when I stepped out, there was a lady and her daughter was crying on the corner, you know? So I thought she was very moved by the film. The mother came to me and she looked at me and she said, to Karan Johar, so I said, Gee, he said, my daughter has just got divorced. And I said, to fix her mood, I will show you Karan Johar's picture. And you have made this picture. You make pictures like this. So I was like, these are our culture. I was like, oh, I was like, I was like. By that time, I realized that the film had done phenomenally overseas. But in India, it had done good business, not great business. But I realized that there was such a divided house on Kabilalwida. So when you said, I was surprised, I was not surprised. I was more disappointed, actually. And then I went within and realized that, you know, that no matter when, when you make a film that hits home sometimes, whether it was Kabilalwida then or Gueranyar today, it'll always have this polarized response. And I was so used to getting just love that the polarization really threw me off. But how do you deal with the appreciation and criticism? And has it changed, evolved over the years, right from the day of your debut till now? It's always a stressful image. Ours is the only business that is judged on a Friday by each and everyone. And the time that I'm coming from, there was no social media. To now, where everyone is a critic. Everyone. The critics are critics. The regular audience are critics. People start meeting me in like my own building and say, 100 crore karegi. And I'm like, are you, I mean, like they asked me that question when Bombay Talkies was releasing. I'm like, how can Bombay Talkies do 100 crores? I'm like, please think and then you answer. Uncle, you know, like, you know, like, it's not easy to achieve business like that. And you get trolled. You get massively criticized or praised, but everything is there for you. Like everyone, YouTubers are reviewing, Instagrammers, real people, like, everyone is giving you their comments on the film. So I come to the school that I watch everything. Because I believe that's the only way you should be aware of the ground reality. Because many filmmakers and actors, I believe live in like, like, like their own bubble. And when you live in a bubble, there's no way that you will find out that what really the audience thinks of your film. So I have become resilient and grown a thick skin now. Because God knows that people say some really terrible things about me. And I'm like, God, you don't know me. I'm not half as bad as you think. And there's one snake emoji that keeps popping up. I don't know why, when my name comes in like, and I'm like, I've seen all the trolling. I've seen it all. And I just like said that, okay, you know, this is like an occupational hazard. It's part and parcel of what you are. Because people who don't have faces and names sometimes tend to just take out their day's anger on somebody. And sometimes they have a perception of who you are without really knowing who you are. You know, they believe it off you and they create that perception and then they attack you. I've grown to kind of realize it's okay. You know, I've realized that now I take it with a tinge of humor. I even laugh at some of the things. People say I'm quite creative. Even when they're trolling you, actually they're doing it quite creatively. Some of the memes are hilarious. I say everything. Like, I've realized that I shouldn't be an isolated filmmaker. I should be an inclusive filmmaker and read everything. And I do. And I think that's the way you grow as well when you learn from whatever, especially when it's constructive. So, yeah. Well, who knows what's really constructive. Especially on the internet. I know it's constructive criticism. But like, there are a few critics that I take seriously that I read, but the others also I read. And I love some of the YouTubers that quite hilarious. And they get really angry when they don't like your film. Like, you know, they start screaming loudly. Oh, that's not a sweet. And I'm like, but aren't you buying it? Like, why are you screaming? And then suddenly people outside, like cinema halls will become self-proclaimed critics. And like, and I see everything. I feel like you see at least some of our reviews. If he sees everything. Actually, all of them have family emotions, drama, comedy. But one film which stands out for me is My Name Is Khan. Yes. Do you like anything that you have made? How did the subject of My Name Is Khan come your way? It was actually started. I was in a dinner with people in New York, actually. And very educated. Some of them were college friends of mine. Some of them were friends of my New York. All educated in some Ivy League schools and colleges. Some of them investment bankers. Some of them from the Bay Area. You know, from IT zones. Evolved educated intelligent people. And they were saying some really to me inappropriate things about what I believe is the misconception of the religion. And I looked at them and I said, I cannot believe all you educated people are saying stupid things like this. I was like, and I walked home to my, I walked to my hotel. It was many blocks down. And I was like, you know, I felt very strongly that I had to tell a story that came from my core. And it was about misconceptions. About what we believe and what it truly is. And then my research started on my name is Khan. And Shibani Badeja actually who wrote the screenplay story of the film. She helped me with the research. We went to lots of institutions in, you know, post 9 11. There was a totally different world that we were dealing with. And there were so many stories. And actually my name is Khan is based on a slightly true story. Of course, which was be then, you know, exaggerated and took the liberties cinematically. But it actually has its originals to show you about someone we couldn't speak about because the family was not comfortable with us talking about this particular person. But he had said to his wife that, you know, I'm going to go and find the president of America and say my name is Khan and I'm not a terrorist. And Shibani who beautifully, brilliantly and diligently worked on the screenplay. She did massive research because I felt that it was out of my depth as a writer. You know, I needed that support system and she gave it to me like it's entirely her baby as a writer. And I felt it was the most I was the wrongest casting as director. But I took it up as a challenge because I feel like the more uncomfortable you are, the more you will push yourself because sometimes when you line a comfort zone, you tend to get complacent. I was in a very uncomfortable zone as a filmmaker. My name is Khan and I had to prove to myself that if you push me to a terrain that I'm not comfortable with, I can perhaps still deliver. It was the most challenging film for me, you know, to actually direct because you have to understand so much about the condition, you know, first and then the climate and had to be hypersensitive about the projection and portrayal because you're dealing with a sensitive subject. It was the toughest film for me to direct, I have to say. I was surprised when you came to them and narrated the subject. Yes, both of them. I mean, like, both asked me, you know, that this is an interesting and an exciting choice. But they were so on board with it because I think it was the belief that three of us had built over a period of so many films. I remember Rajkumar Rani sir once said that he was planning Munna Bhai Chale America which was based on a similar subject and then came my name is Khan. He saw it, he loved it and then eventually that led him to even. But then he saw my name as Khan and he was going to do it. Did he ever have a conversation with you on the similarities? No, he just, we just spoke at, we met at an event and he said, I didn't realize that you were telling a similar story. You know, and then he, I know his Munna Bhai Chale America was similarly about something like this. But like, I don't know the details of that. But yes, we had a conversation about it. So you know, I think your friendship with Shah Rukh Khan, I think it would be 30 years. You know him since 30, 32, 93, 94. 30 years. Yeah, 30 years. I met him on the sets of Karan Arjun for the first time in 1993. 30 years basically. Yeah. Do you remember the first ever conversation that you had with him? Yes. On the sets of Karan Arjun, my dad took me because my dad was offering him duplicate at that time discussing dates and monies, et cetera. And Kajal was on that set. They were shooting the song Jati Hume. And I remember calling Kajal. I said, I'm coming with my father. I don't know anyone. You know, at least you will be there. You know, so she said, yeah, I am there. And you know, so I went with the time I had. She was giving her shot. So she was busy and Shah Rukh was wearing this bright orange Levi's shirt. I still remember. And you know, you had built a perception and heard about movie stars and how they are. And I had this impression that movie stars are a certain way. And like my father was a producer and he had dealt with many. And Shah Rukh, there's a lot of talk that he's actually kind of like arrogant. And like that he was not arrogant. Like he was like the word is that he was like, he knew what he was doing. And he comes from drama and theater and all that. But in one minute, I was just swept away by the magic of Shah Rukh. He was not only just charming, chatty. He kept asking me questions about my school and college. He was so personable. And he looks into your eye and speaks to you. And that is the most beautiful part about Shah Rukh is that when he's with you, he's present with you. He doesn't, he doesn't give a damn about it. We've noticed that in his interviews. Just you. Yep. I would love to know, is that an interview with us? And speaking to you. I genuinely wanting to know. Fully engaged. Five minutes I think had become a fan. Like I was like, like, oh my God, like this is the most amazing human being. I think I've ever met. He was magical. Like, you know, it's like, and I feel like most people who haven't met Shah Rukh Khan have missed out. Because that is like that moment and it remains still today. We are 30 years, a deep family friendship. And even now when I speak to him, he's magnetic. He's majestic, of course, but he's magnetic. That is not the first time though I met Shah Rukh Khan. I was, did a show which I'm very embarrassed about. And there's a reel making the rounds called Indra Dhanush. When I was 15 years old. Anand Menjo, the director called my father and said, called my mother and said that, do you have a very fat son? And I was very large. I'll say plus size today. I was very, very plus sized. And my mother was of course very defensive. And she said, no, he has puppy fat. It will go. But he wanted a very plus sized person for his serial calling Indra Dhanush. So I went to his office to audition. Because it was summer holidays, I just got my 10th standard. And there was somebody sitting right opposite me doing the crossword and drinking tea. We sat for a couple of hours because Anand was busy in editing. He sat, I sat, we just stared at each other once or twice. And I continued just staring into space because I didn't want to, I was so stressed. First time I'm going like, it's all new for me. And then Anand walked out and went to this person and said that, okay, so we're making this show called Indra Dhanush. And he's like, you know, I just came to tell you that I don't want to do TV anymore. I want to do film. But I really liked the TV office and I wanted to finish the crossword. And he walked out, he left. And Anand said like, how strange was that? And I'm like, I said, I found it familiar. Who is he? So he said his name is Shah Rukh Khan. And he did 4G. So I said, yeah, yeah, right, right. He was in 4G. That's why. And then the rest was like, he was in the show. That same role that Shah Rukh was meant to do. It's so bizarre because when I met Shah Rukh many years later, I told him and he remembered. He said, Ocha, it was you who was sitting opposite me. He said, because we literally faced each other in a tiny room for 4 hours without speaking to each other. But who knew at that point that this particular incident and this particular moment will be so defining for me in my career. Since then, the rest, like 30 years of journey with him, it has been magical, I'm sure. So you know Rocky and Rani's Prem Kani, when you talk of that film, I think everyone over here, the Gen Z has seen the film. I think, yeah. When you talk of that film, you have directed 7 films, which include Student of the Year as well. Every film has had a Shah Rukh Khan association. Student of the Year was produced by him. Were you ever tempted at any time? Oh very. To have a cameo in Rocky Rai. Like, you know, the entire AD team, and I think some of them are here, will say that in Tunkia Mille, they said the best moment should be like you track away from Alia and Ranveer and just go to Shah Rukh and Kajal. And they look at him and you know, Alia realizes that this is pure love because they represent love. And I was like, with what kind of guts do I have to go and ask Shah Rukh to not only do a cameo, but to come to Kashmir to get into air costume and plus I had already... You know, Shah Rukh never says no to me and he... That would have been amazing. I can remember when we went as a team to ask him to play that massive, impactful cameo in Brahmastra. At the end of the day, he looked at us and he said it's Karan and I can never say no. I know that I can't take that empowered feeling for granted. I can't keep going back. You know, I remember in an air deal, I knew that who else but Shah Rukh could say the power of love is something else. I was like, who else could say that? Who else could say that? You know, it's just my right. It's just my right. I was like, you need the king to decide those dialogues. So I was like, who's now an emperor by the way? I told him, I said, now we have to just call you Emperor Khan now. That's the new name. And I was like, I went and asked him, he said yes. Went on Brahmastra, he said yes. He has never said no. I said, so I have to pick and choose my favours. So I thought this one, I let it go. I won't go because I'll be so embarrassed to ask it again. Because you know, he gave us on Brahmastra nearly 12 to 14 days. Didn't charge a penny. Just was there with full love and full just energy. That's a lot of time too. He's on just a climb. More than anything. Especially a film that large where he could have very easily said. At minimum, maybe just what basic rate would be. That's very, very sweet of him. Sir, you know someone recently I thought he needs the money. That BNC for Karanjore film is in the overseas market. You are one of the very few filmmakers who has a strong audience base in the international market. When was the first time that you felt the love internationally and what accordingly When you saw our stupid reactions. I think it was the first time that I went to London and to a theatre called, it was in Feltham, Cineworld at Feltham. It's where a bulk of the Asian community comes and I watched K3G and I went in and there was a gentleman called Andrew who ran the chain and he was like I'm very excited to meet you. Who's this director who's made it to top three of the UK box office with Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings in the same, and your number three. And he said there are queues in the cold to come to see this film. And when I went to the theatre it was like they were reacting to everything. Like you know when there's a scene when Kajal says come back Rahul, this is not our country, this is not our people and they all stood up and clapped and I was like I was like you all really want to leave then why you because they were all like the emotion was so strong and it was so and I was like so I was so overwhelmed with that feeling I think it was in that point that I realised that there was some kind of connection that the films had had with the diaspora and I really feel grateful for the love that comes because eventually everyone is from our country and you know sometimes they're disconnected geographically but their connection is still so deep and I think it's the value system in the films that actually connects with them and you know helps us achieve the numbers. Sir this is a question I usually ask the actors but I think it is more relevant for you than anyone else. You are friends with almost everyone in the film industry and every actor every person who is working over here wants to do a dharma film or a Karanjaya director here. How difficult does it get for you to say no to actors when they come to you and say that we want to do this film but you feel it is someone else who fits the film. It's a good question. I mean you know actually I haven't worked with a lot of people a lot of actors. I worked with Shah Rukh in over five films as director and as producer more than that I then worked with Ranbir before that with Varun and Sid the first film it was. And with Ranbir and now Ranbir so I actually haven't had the massive opportunity of working with a lot of actors but because we produce many films I've interacted and worked with many stars you know I have a very I have very genuine relationships with all of them so every time I've ever been in an awkward moment where an actor come and say I want to be in a film but I've gone to someone else it's never happened because I think everybody knows your reasons right for going to who you go to and I still want to work with so many of them because I feel like as a director I still haven't worked with a lot of actors you know even when I directed Ranbir it was like for the first time I had ever worked with a movie star besides Shah Rukh Khan you know and when I worked with Ranbir it was again it was a rare experience for me but a wonderful one. When I directed Alia on Rocky or Rani I felt I'd never directed her before because the Alia Anstrunda Diya was a different actor. The Alia Bhatt who faced the camera as Rani Chatterjee in Rocky Rani was like I was like who taught you to be this brilliant like it wasn't me like it wasn't me I have no I have absolutely and Alia told me not to praise her a lot but because we get told for that a lot that you know every time I praise Alia Bhatt we do too he goes on and on we get chills for praising Alia as well and Ranbir she's like my first born in many ways so like I have like pride for her but I always say like student of Diya was her professional launch her emotional launch but her true career launch is highway you know I think that's that truly is what cemented her career as an artist it wasn't student of Diya I promise I taught her nothing maybe look glamorous but that wasn't the prerequisite to be a great artist so when I directed and I was like oh my god like she's fantastic and I don't know how this happened like she's just become this fantastic actor 2020 was not really a career for the industry now 2023 the tides have changed how be right from Pathan to Gathar oh my god Javan Rakhirani's Premkani Dreamgirl Phukri and so many more having observed the trends of trends which regards the kind of content that is working as a producer what do you think has changed in the last three years oh god noted so I think pre-pandemic there were certain kind of films that were definitely exciting in audience that were either specifically not tentpole or big event action films but very substance oriented films I think a lot of that has changed post pandemic those that are completely substance based and message based or probably emotional dramas human dramas love stories perhaps have been so actively streamed like when you go on to any of the streaming services there's so much of that kind of content thrillers you know that people are I don't think investing their time and money in cinema halls so for cinema halls to get those bums on seats I think the big tentpole films or the films that really actually have like crazy word of mouth from day one but that stuff it's become tough so everything that has worked has been an event film Javan Pathan didn't own G2du while then even dream girl is a sequel I thought it did Fukui is a sequel so sequels are also a sequel the sequels are the first part and second part were really appreciated for us I think Rocky and Rani worked purely on the strength of his word of mouth we didn't open to a grand number but I think the film got the love and that's why it just went on doing the business it did and Ranveer and Alia got so much love and here I have to take a beat and just say before I get into that working with Ranveer Singh was just an amazing exhilarating experience like he is he's a juggernaut of talent like he is just something else like a chameleon like he can go from Keelji to Murad to like like to literally to personally I'm not a big fan couple day I mean like like you know and then Deepika tells me like every six months a new person walks into the house like you know because he becomes that character like he would talk like Rocky throughout like he just in his conversations with me I was talking to Rocky I was not talking to Ranveer Singh he would say like you know house you and like he would call me and say Ranveer Singh this side and like everything was like oh god like I'm not being able to have a normal conversation this man but he never left that character it was phenomenal I had to just say it because I'm so grateful for him and the film but going back to your question so yeah so I mean we have to walk on on a tie on thin ice right now when we plan our films to make sure that they their syntax is theatrical do you believe that there's this entire narrative on social media about the concept of superstars do you believe franchises and IPs are the new superstars and there are not enough superstars we have I mean I think your film is your superstar you know I think you've got even if you have a superstar your films got to work you know that Shah Rukh Salman Akshay Ritek Ajay they're all massive superstars and in younger generation we have so many of them Shah Rukh has proven this year that you know that he's befitting of that glorious crown look at the numbers they're fantastic like I've never dreamt of I mean I think I'd go mad if I saw these numbers coming out of a Will My Meade but it's like I'm so proud that it's Shah Rukh but yes eventually the film is a superstar there's no bigger superstar than the film itself and so when we talk of Rukh you're running a Prem Gani I know that there was a lot of pressure around the film before the release because you know like you said franchises and tentpole films were happening what was the moment when you realised that okay we have made it the first day fantastic reviews everyone is talking about the film the performance and slowly the audience would have not kicked in and the film went where it had to but when was it where you felt that okay we have made it an original Hindi language film non-french as he has gone I was very stressed I think I was going to have a cardiac arrest the week before and the days following that I don't think anyone anyone who knows me closely will know that when I mean stressed it was physically like my body was like shivering and shaking like I was like I felt like I really seek the validation with this film it's been it was a seven year gap and a three year a three year tough time you know it's the trolling the anxiety had built there was a lot of negativity that surrounded me personally as well as the industry and it wasn't easy on me or my mom it was a tough time for us as a family when we had to combat it I don't feel like I should put so much focus on success in general but this time I felt I didn't need the success as much as I needed the validation that I'm still a relevant filmmaker that can talk to an audience today somehow even if I felt it I needed to believe it and I needed to see it the proof lies in the pudding and I needed to know that all the trolling was just virtual noise it's not really true that if an audience really loves you they will come in they like your film they will come they won't judge you by perception but I needed Himesh for me to really see that and that had built this ball of anxiety and I was just like and there were literally there were times of tears which was rolling down my face but on Friday and then Saturday I don't think I've ever received this kind of love filmmakers actors were calling me like audiences were reaching out to me people were telling me they were going back to see the film I've never felt so respected as a filmmaker and I've always had this not angst but this feeling like I don't think I think they don't take me as seriously as they should but I felt like serious filmmakers were calling me serious actors were messaging me and you know really revered and respected actors were like this is a great like make more like this you know this had the best messaging and he had entertaining and like I was by Monday I was like we are kind of walking home we'll get there but I think I feel we can celebrate it from now onwards so it was a Monday of the release that I really I took my first breath and it felt so good I can't tell you Sir when we speak of Dharma productions what are the IPs and franchises that you want to create going going forward Yeah I don't know I don't know how to plan these things you know I feel like You have some that's Yeah yeah we have and we do want to make a Dhulhania we do want to do that at some point I hope that we do it's a love story franchise that actually doesn't exist it's only us that made it Hamti Badri and now we are looking forward to making another Dhulhania we are creating as we speak a couple which I don't want to reveal that unless you break the story sometimes shocks all of us we are like how do I already find out like who's who's the Pinkvilla I go by stories much more than because I feel like many people make projects and those never result in good films I think we have to make a franchise only when it's a good story but not by just the fact that it's a two or three or four you know I think not everything should be a two you know just by adding two to something doesn't make it while sometimes commercially I'm giving that advice it doesn't always come organically for me though I will do it and I will do it for I will do it for commercial reasons but many a time I wonder like is this being fair to an audience you know because I feel like you're just adding two to one but that's it really needed to you know make another film with another title it's so great but I know the world does it Hollywood does it we're doing it it's been successful my belief is if a story needs to continually then it should I've been asked so many times that oh I can't do make K3G2 and you know I'm like that story was what it was I don't think that needs it that too my faith is more in stories than in numbers and franchises I think in 2022 you announced that you want to direct an action film yes is that are you working on that are you planning to make it someday someday or is it your next as a I mean let's just say that what I normally when I announce something I mean it that would be interesting I think I mean see to me not gonna talk about anything that I'm doing in specific when I mean action I believe action is also a result of an emotion just fighting for no reason is a film that will go nowhere I think motivationally the action that's exactly what Lokesh said emotion something that I love to project so for me action is a subset emotion is the the front star you know so if I can crack that narrative yeah the justification for the action comes from the story and the action will follow YouTube and especially emotion for Karen Johar yes yes that's good to hear the rest of the world too kind of I don't one thing is like while popcorn is great but making just a popcorn action film is not something that I would be excited by and before we move on to fan question this is a question which if I don't ask a lot of people on Twitter would be angry 25 years back you teamed up with Salman for the first time yes and since then there has not been a collaboration there have been multiple instances where conversations happens but things didn't matter I believe that is finally happening could you tell us something what it is is it happening how so the thing is I have to tell you that I have the deepest respect for Salman and his entire family my father is very close to Salim Sahab and I told you how Salman said yes to the film like he said it on the basis of the fact that he loved my dad and that has never left my heart all I can say at this moment is that that relationship will hopefully find a celluloid space very soon okay so hopefully announcement I'm not saying it I'm not denying it I'm just not because I'm like I'm superstitious about certain things I feel like I should just say it when the time is right and one last thing Karan sir 25 years in the industry you have seen it all what is it that is there on your bucket list what is it that you aspire to do going forward to be interviewed by us when I began my career there were a couple of artists were on my bucket list us was Mr. Rishi Kapoor who I directed and produced with Kapoor and Sanjana Gnipad one of them was working with Mr. Bachchan who I had the pleasure of directing twice one of them was who I'm a crazy fan of Lataji and she sang for me a title song of Kabir Khushi Kabiga one of them was working with with the late Shri Devi I feel like that was a desire that unfortunately went unfulfilled I have no as no dream that I feel hasn't been realized but what I do and what I tell everyone is like every day I make a new dream for myself and that dream could be a story to tell an expansion plan for my studio or a relationship that I want to enhance my dreams are not restricted to just the movies they're also restricted to like I dreamt of having children and when I had them I feel like that was one of my beautiful dreams that were fortified and now I dream for them so my dreams are so I guess so my dreams are also we can talk about it taking a leap and they've gone more from just professional but also to personal now when I wake up every day I dream new dreams for myself but I also dream big dreams for my children thank you so much Karan sir for doing this conversation thank you so much thank you for everyone for being here thank you just thank you from the bottom of my heart thank you and 25 years done looking forward to another 25 years celebrating cinema celebrating your films and everything thank you thank you thank you hopefully inshallah we'll meet again okay Pinkvilla what? he's an easy interview oh yeah you just ask him one good question and he will give you a very wonderful long answer I think he had less than 10 questions there for an hour for an hour long interview I think there was like less than 10 questions yeah and so yeah he's a host and so he knows how to fill a space yeah yeah he's never really had a loss for words it's really wonderful he also he's a good interview because when he's an intelligent man he knows the industry very well he's also very self-aware which is one of my favorite things about him in terms of the fact that he won he wears a producer hat and a director's hat simultaneously yeah and so like when he's talking certain ways he's like this is me talking as a producer right I've told people to make sequels for because that will make you money right I also don't like it right as an artist because it needs to have a continual story so I think he he wears those hats because it's got to be difficult because you know the first thing that speaks for us is obviously as actors and artists but obviously as a producer you need to think a different way or you're not going to be a producer very long no you have to think in terms of dollars and cents right those are the people that do we've said that many times those are the people that can care about box office that can do it because that's they're the ones that fund it but he's I love his introspectiveness in terms of like what he was talking about and what he was suggesting for this film as the director right which you can see why because he has a certain style of cinema sure that he does extremely well right and that is his brand but I think obviously he succeeded and he when he pushes himself he can he can do it what do you think yeah and the other thing revealed which is just the same repetitive thing over and over again is relationships in any industry it's that way but what causes people to be able to do work he exists in the industry yeah because of the relationships he had and predominantly because of the belief that Shah Rukh Khan had in him when he really didn't understand I mean his thought was yeah that's really nice there's no way Shah Rukh Khan's doing a movie with me and then he just follows up and does that it you have to be talented yeah but it also goes back to it's about the relationships and people working with you wanting to work with you and again just a wonderful would love to talk to him because he's one of those interviews that I know that just it would be tough because you'd only be able to probably get in five or six questions because he would give you such a a long wonderful answer yeah he would be really interesting yeah where did the saying do you know proof in the pudding come from my suspicion is England the proof is in the pudding why is it in the pudding though well it's the outcome of the recipe you may say why did it why is it pudding the proof is in every recipe it's true why is it pudding no the etymology that I'm sure exists I have no idea why it was specifically the pudding it is also the fact that like back in the day the casting and that was here too the casting process for films was so different yeah now and rightfully so everybody is a brand and so actors even though you know he probably it's annoying to him that they take so long and they have to think about stuff so different you kind of have to especially if the stars said he usually works with the caliber you have to weigh certain things especially in Indian cinema it's very different as well yeah because if you have two flops you nobody's going to work with you right because now you're a flop actor there's a different industry than anything here as opposed to actors here will choose like you know nobody nobody thinks Leonardo DiCaprio is not a good actor not because his films don't make a hundred million dollars right it's just a different industry in a different time in each industry it is but it's still the same with relationships oh yeah you know I promise there's things that have happened if we talk to him about it where if you said to either Bob DeNiro or Martin Scorsese and you said did you just agree to do the film because they were doing it I don't think Robert DeNiro would say no to Marty I think he wouldn't even need to read the script Marty would say hey Bobby I have this movie that we're doing Leo has never said no to me either yeah no they just the working relationships are so trusted Johnny's never said no to Tim it's yeah it's one of those things Tim Burton says to Johnny hey I got an idea for something I don't think Johnny's going to tell him I need to read the script first no he said that many times yeah I'll just I'll work with that person because I trust them and I know what we're going to do yeah but also like the fact that back to Salman he's like yeah I like your dad I'll do I don't need to read the part of the film that I'm in and while he doesn't need the money it really needs to be highlighted that Shahrukh Khan would do what he did for Brahmashtra Gratis that he would take 12 days be a huge contributor to the buzz of the film and just do it because he loves Karan and it also speaks a lot about Karan Johar that you heard him say I know this is again it's about relationships and can I not only are you talented but can I trust you he knows that if he picks up the phone if you want SRK would have gone to Kashmir he would have done it but he respects the relationship that he will never violate the relationship and that's really really important although that would have been an amazing that would have really been amazing and I bet even now Shahrukh is probably talking to him and saying why didn't you tell me that I would have done that for you and he says no I'm not going to take advantage of our relationship that would have been an amazing relationship I just have Shahrukh Khan and Kajal in Kashmir her in a beautiful sorry he's spreading his arms that would have been amazing you know how much I love that movie that would have been really fun that would have been a lot of fun he's always such a fun interview just the casting like the fact that he was an AD and Shahrukh Khan not only was like I want to be your next film I want to be your first director of the film he's never seen anything Kieran Joharstein and then to subsequently follow up and be like this is going to happen Kieran and I'm going to make it happen and then also the fact that Kieran never had a script just just was writing it in his own handwriting and making copies one hilarious and also not surprising with that film at all and how like different the two have I also would love to talk to him specifically about what it was like for him and his DP because you know that first film he doesn't know what he's doing no not at all he's just got ideas and his experience DP is there to help make it look good so that when it's done he's the one going guys that happens to so many directors who the first thing that they're doing they don't know what they're doing in fact was it him there was some director we talked there was a someone said I think it was Vishal it was Vishal you didn't hear it it was in his master class where he talked about the very first thing he was directing he was so unaware of terms and what to do that crew was laughing at him talking about Mukti the horror yes that the crew was laughing not mockingly but giggling over the fact that this is the guy directing the film and it would be like having a guy on set and talking and having somebody say to the director just tell them it's camera right or that piece of tape on the ground is called a mark it's that he said I knew so little about it but he didn't let him stop it I feel like it's having a lot in Indian cinema specifically because we've seen so many first time directors get these massive stars relationships it's relationships and it's quite incredible it's a very unique part of Indian cinema but yeah even more so than here I mean in every industry it's about relationships I think India is is far more willing just based on energy to an emotion relationship to give people a shot and do you think it's because it's more of a star system still in India maybe yeah and it's a double edged sword in that regard it's not the director really caring it it's the actor it depends on the director too but I think we see it so much big breaks and I mean big in terms of the notoriety of a film of being able to work with name people that typically here doesn't happen to people unless you've paid your dues yeah you've gone through the ranks you've been a first AD you've you've done you don't just go straight to directing Meryl Streep that very rarely ever happens here and it seems to happen all the time there I think that's a very cool thing um do it with us I think we're going to be on your bucket list yeah I feel like he's seen something since he watches everything it would not surprise me feel like he's at least seen something it would not surprise me um I don't I hope he has uh if you have then you will know we want to talk to you and we would like to work with you absolutely uh some of the white actors in your films are some of the worst I've ever seen yeah if you've got any if you need any guys that can in your action film that can actually deliver a line and not make it look pathetic we're competent unless that's just the vibe you're going for yeah we can be bad on purpose oh yeah so we're also going to tell people you told us that exactly there so we're going to be terrible but Karen Johard told us today just won't you know exactly anyways that was great let us know what you thought about the interview what other interviews we still have quite a few of it's films to get to I think kank yeah one that I really want to get to I know he really likes that one and Johnny likes kank and then also student of the year first one yeah the first one actually like a lot yeah in terms of and then what we've only got seven so there's not a lot to have to follow up on there we haven't seen is one with rent beer though we've seen a lot right all dill or something like that all dill something like that anyways any old who you let us know down below what should be his next one we should watch thank you so much