 Boy, I'm so happy you all come here for our DebConf 18 Diversity Forum. We are very serious about diversity here at DebConf and even more serious here in Taiwan. You know what? Some people tried to put us in some side room, but we're not having it. So we got all the broadcasts of every room because diversity is so important for us this time. We're not going to be defeated by any other DebConf for diversity. So I personally invited Ima Cat to lead off our diversity forum. Hello everybody, thank you. And actually this is kind of surprising since I thought it would be full of Taiwanese here, but I thought so I was planning about a Chinese panel, but it seems the situation is different. But yeah, our speakers are very powerful so they can handle it. So they will come in to the diversity panel. I'm Ima Cat. I work with women in FOAS for since 2010 and I've been organizing several panels talking about diversity and gender gap. And this year I have joined the Wikimedia Diversity Working Group. So I'm very glad that Jutani came to me and said, well, if we can organize this panel and yeah, we did it. And I'm also very happy that we can invite these speakers and they have their specialties in their area. And our first speaker would be Asuka. Asuka is from his chief editor of Micropower Magazine. And in Taiwan, migrant workers is a very important issue and there are hundreds of thousands of migrant workers in Taiwan, but actually you can very little see them in all kinds of different places. So I would like to see more different, more of migrant workers also in the conference in community and in everywhere else. And also the second speaker would be Abby. Abby is from the transgender activist organization in Taiwan and she's also a security engineer and she will share her point of view on the difficulties and the situation of transgender in the FOSS. And the third one, Jutani. Jutani is one of my best friends and she has been working with me on Pileadies Taiwan and when we started Pileadies Taiwan and she's now a lead in girl in tech. And the fourth one, I think, and also Jutani will share a small on gender gap issue. And the fourth one, I think many people here already know her issue and Ronda. And Ronda is working in Debian for many years and also she's not currently working to organize a diversity team and she will share us on her problems and the progress that she's currently working on and she's facing here. And so since we have little time here so each person, each speaker will have 10 minutes and yeah, I hope we still have some Q&A time but I don't know. And yeah, for diversity issue, I think the... For diversity issue, I think currently I have talked to Ronda before this conference and I found out we currently have a call of conduct and we have three... but I don't see more than this. So I was thinking about if we can do something more than the call of conduct, we can... if besides a passive call of conduct, what can we do to invite more people into this community? Should we want more projects, what more ways, what things that we can do to invite more people? So Azuka, can you share about your point of view in the migrant workers? Good morning everybody. My name is Azuka Lee and actually my occupation is very special. I'm a journalist but I think everybody here, maybe you are engineer or hacker but I'm an editor in chief and founder of an independent media in Taiwan and it's named Migrant Park. It's the first independent media which focus on the migrant people community, migrant people including migrant worker and foreign sponsors. And today I want to share everybody about my point of view about the migrant people their disadvantage in information because I think everybody here, we are really good in information, good in using PC Mac or programming or do something but the migrant people group, they are very weak in this kind of part. So today I want to introduce the disadvantage in information of migrant worker group and let me introduce the migrant people status of Taiwan. The total population of migrant worker is 700,000 and every year is increased in 20,000 to 30,000. So the total population is increasing and increasing and I think one day the population will be over one million people and the migrant worker, they are from four Southeast Asia country, Vietnam, Indonesia, Philippines and Thailand and except Filipino people, the other migrant worker from Vietnam, Indonesia and Thailand, they cannot speak English well. They can only say their mother language. So it's really difficult for them to communicate with local people and migrant worker their occupation, mainly our factory worker, fishermen, domestic caretaker and maid. And the last two kind of occupation, domestic worker and domestic maid, it's really difficult for them to have a day off. Most of them only have one day off per month, even one day off every two months. They have really few free time themselves and most people of them, they don't have personal computer. Most of them only have cell phone so they are really relying on their own cell phone, smartphone. And about the disadvantage in information, because the migrant people, migrant worker, they are really relying on their smartphone so they can only use three kind of app, like Facebook, Line or KakaoTalk or BitTalk and other app, they don't know. So even they can't use like Microsoft Word or Excel or email, because sometimes I communicate with them, maybe I will ask them, can you email something to me? They ask me, sir, what is email? They don't know, they don't know what is email. So if they want to send me some picture, always use Facebook message or Line. And because before I said, they have really few day off. So it's really hard for them to go outside to shopping. Most of the time they need to stay in their employer's house. So they only can do the shopping on Facebook. So they really like to buy the materials, buy the products in Facebook group or Facebook page. But sometimes they will buy the fake product or they will meet the internet fraud. But nobody tell them it's dangerous because they are separate from the society. And about the e-commerce. Okay, so because the population of my grandparents is more than 700,000, so some company in Taiwan, they want to develop electronic e-commerce. So some local company, they want to deliver e-commerce to my grandparents, but really difficult to push because based on the language barrier and discrimination, the migrant worker, they are really hard to have bank accounts in Taiwan because, I say, most of them cannot speak English and Chinese. So they are really hard to have bank accounts. Even they go to the bank. The bank servant is really hard to communicate with the migrant people. So they are really, they are difficult to have ATN or ATM card or credit card. So most of the time they need to buy things, buy cash. So we know the people of the migrant worker that come to Taiwan is want to earn money to send back to their family in their hometown. But they have no ATM card or credit card. So if they want to remit the money, they need to bring a bunch of cash and go to the remittance center and to send back to their home. So I think some local company, they want to develop an economic e-commerce, but until now, no local company successfully to push e-commerce to migrant worker group. And maybe some of you were thinking, we can teach them about, we can educate them in information. But it's also difficult because the migrant workers, they have language barrier and very few day off. And sometimes the limitation from their info lawyer is really important. Info lawyer limit their free day in Taiwan. And because even the people have free time in Taiwan, they like to learn Chinese first because if they learn Chinese, one day when they go back to their home, they can find a better job. So they are willing to learn language first. So not very interesting in information education. And even their job, their job is not stable because the caretaker, they take care about all the people, but maybe all the people will die or pass away. So if all the people pass away, the caretaker need to go home. So it's not stable of their job. And finally, if they receive the education, but like I said before, they have no personal computer to use to practice because most of them only have mobile phone, cell phone. So it's really difficult to teach the migrant worker information. Okay, so this is my share. Sorry for my poor English. Okay, thank you. Thanks for Ashuka to share the status of the current migrant workers in Taiwan. And I would really like to see that we can more invite them into this community. And yeah, since actually they are part, they are a large part. And maybe could you please, could maybe share this about the difficulties that have been happening on the transgender community. Actually, if somebody has still remembered, this panel was in the beginning was a transgender journal and then become a gender journal and become the diversity journal. And I'm very glad that we can cover more issues. I'm very glad that we can cover more issues here. But I would also like to bring this issue of transgender women and their problem into discussion. Hi, my name is Abby and I'm a security engineer and I previously worked in the blockchain industry. And I also, for now, I almost work for... Sounds like an independent security contractor. So people hire me to, like, invest into the companies or the systems to find out if they have any leaks or any... Yeah, you know, the hackers will do. And yeah, I can say I am a whitehead. So personally, I am a transgender woman which is a very small portion of this today. We have only a handful of people who are transgender women today in this conference. And when we talk about gender, we always talk about what? The sex in the pants or under the dress or in the inside body or under behavior. Which kind? Or in our head? What kind? We don't know. But what we do know is we humans like to categorize things like short tall people, handsome, ugly, and rich guy, poor guy. Because we saw different people, we know them and our brain needs to understand and so we categorize them into different... Manifestors will say the best kids in your brains. We call it categorized. So we can simplify the thing. In other terms, we can say laboring. Laboring things. But in the end, we figured out actually in human beings, we don't have any label because each one is unique. You are professional in coding. You are professional in security. And you are special in DevOps and so on and so on. So everyone is unique. We are all humans. Although maybe in the... I see in... our audience come from all... like all the last 50 years. Okay, no problem. We all say men and women have different kinds of brains. But it turns out in the latest research every brain is different. You might like sweet taste, sour taste, or any taste. You may look lovely, you may look stronger, or whatever you like. These are all decided by genes. And no two people are with the same gene. For gender, we are all on the history... we are on the tipping point of the history. This tipping point is just like the beginning of the... I can say maybe some people will know the black woman movement in the US. Because of the history, we don't know this... we only know... we learn from the education. We only know men and women. And for the other people, like maybe for ourselves, maybe let's play a simple game. How many people think I am a man? Just raise their hand. No problem, that's fine. And how many people think I'm a woman? Raise your hand, please. Thank you so much. And how many people think I am? None of them are both. That's great. And in our brain, the traditional concept idea, men is in the box, women in another box, and others in another box. The other box is what we call non-binary... sorry, non-binary. And we also call it the freaks. Why we call it freaks? Because we don't know who you are. Why you are coming here? Why you are just like... you talk like a man and you're just like, woman, what the hell is going on with you? Let's talk about history. There's a story maybe you can remember. Once Valentine, a scientist said the Earth is an orbit. And he was executed before his establishment, which is called Del Invento Universal Devento. He claimed... Sun is the center of our galaxy. And he also claimed that human is not the only human being in the universe. This claim is dangerous and violating the... church, the religions in the 16th century. So he turned out to be the sentence to fire today. Okay, now we know the Earth is an orbit and this is a common sense. But we always fall into our common sense in our area, in our thoughts, in our daily life, in our experience. And through these all things and we see... we see all things... maybe we... sometimes we can see some dangerous things. We need to immediately... immediately. This is the time I will show you this... I don't know if you ever see this movie. It's called the X-Men First Class. And this is the collaboration with human beings and the X-Men. They want to try to avoid a conflict between the American and Cuba. And... And because the X-Men used their superpower to overpower the human's weapons, so the human becomes afraid of them and to stop them and turn their weapons to the X-Men. And that's where the story begins. In the transgender world, for... even for myself, we're often seen as freaks. Although we are just humans, we get up in the morning and brush our teeth and go to work and get our baths at night. We all want to work together. We want to live together. We want to code together. We want to do a program together. We want to learn how to code together. But sometimes we are... Maybe you can say frightened, be frightened from some people. So they become... Some transgender people may not quite trust humans, so they become, you may say, a little bit an enemy. But for me, myself, my empathy is still there. And today I'm standing here to just let you see that transgender people are not like Spider-Man or something with special powers or whatever it is. We are just ordinary people. And that's why we will talk about humans. Human is full of curiosity. When we look at the night sky, we saw the moon and the sky. We don't know what they come from. Our ancestors... Once they told us, when you see the shooting star, it symbolizes the bad things will happen. But we all know this is just the star cross, the MSP. Carl Sagan once said, we are all born in curiosity. Why we just keep this curiosity to all things, not only for computers, Debian and community, and we reach out to all the things we can, and we reach out to all the people we are working with. Maybe your colleague, maybe your neighbor, a transgender person, reach out to him, to her. As questions, don't be afraid, because when you are afraid, you cannot take a step. You will always understand. Facing the unknown, we will be afraid. That's what humans do. So we just... Because we are a community, we will go and go, go, go. Go to the unknown, go to the unknown. This is what a community will do. And you can Google a lot of things about transgender online, but you maybe, maybe I am the first transgender person you've ever seen in front of your eyes. But I am glad I am the first one. But I encourage you to see more people, more transgender people, and more even other genders, genders, communities around you. And that's all for my speech. Thank you all. Thank you for... Thank you for sharing about the transgender issue. Actually I have been working on bringing the transgender women's problem, the issue into the... the general women's issue, try to bring it into many different situations. For example, our local feminist group and also in where I am working, working with the Wikimedia, Wikimedia women. And I think it's quite, actually this is quite, not so new, not so new actually, but many people still have difficulties since even if many of them may know about something about transgender women but what we are actually facing. For example, when we are... when we are... when you are peeing, we are afraid of police. Even if there's something that simple like go to toilet, we are facing. We are in the fear of police arrest or for the past two years, I've been fighting for the right to swim. And you know, and many people may know that in many... many gyms, doesn't welcome transgender women. So, yeah. So I hope that we can have more understanding and then next we'll be... thank you. And yes, and we will discuss about her experience on women on the major issue, the major issue in diversity, the gender gap, and Joanie will be showing on this. Okay, hi, good morning everyone. Yeah. So I'm very happy to be here and today I will represent to you a woman who called Taipei, to share with you guys about what we've done in coding education in a school and out of school. And yeah, I think it's a very good topic today. We can... oh, sorry. Okay. It's better? Thank you, thank you. Yeah, so actually I didn't know I need to use English so my slides in Chinese but I will share you guys in English and try my best. Okay, so have everyone heard about woman who called in your city or country? Can you raise your hand? Okay, nice. And did you join any like event in woman who called in your country before? Okay, good. So yeah. So we are woman who called Taipei and I'm Joanie and Jane is our city director and woman who called Taipei actually is come from 2016 and we established in Taipei and now we try to encourage more female to step into the coding area and now we have over 800 people 800 female or male joining our event before and actually we use different ways to encourage female to start coding and one of our we like the offline like meeting so not just online and we host different like topic of event so first one is like we use the workshop or study group and we this one is we host in one of the American like called BNY Malone Bank and we collaborate with them to use their office and that we can study a book to help like different like chance chance change their career path to technology field so we can tell them how to prepare the interview and also we have some engineer in that area and can share with us how to prepare the interview and the second one is we are very happy that this year we are the code.org international partner in Taiwan so that we can doing more to the younger age people to start coding so we have already did lots of like our code and I think lots of people probably have ever tried or your kids have ever tried to writing code on the website code.org so they provide a bunch of different materials to teach kids how to code and use the Blockly based programming languages to help kids to understand the logic of coding and yeah so we go into the schools and our volunteers they also spend their time including me we go into like a Shinbei elementary school and teach the teacher how to teach coding in the class and we also cooperate with some not only the tech company we also cooperate with them to tell them probably their employees they really want to start coding or know more about what the engineer is doing so we cooperate with them to teach them the out of code so not for the children we also teach the adults and we also go into like a delta Taiwan so you can see like the picture we show is all about the female so it's really interesting like the appearance they usually want to know more about about coding nowadays and because next year in Taiwan we also will start our first year I think the first year to include the company as a main subject in junior high school and senior high school so that's the reason why more and more people care about this topic issue in today and the second thing I want to share is because I was an engineer before but two years ago I decided to change my career path to education so I just combine the technology background and the education passion and now going to the schools so we just discover if you want to encourage more people start coding the best way is you teach the kids if the kids can can touch the technology or coding earlier which means when they decided to like choose their major or choose their job they can have more imagination so so two years ago when I first decided to go to the education area I searched for search different position in Taiwan and finally I decided to just apply for a job in a school so I went to Ilan Ilan is the north of Taiwan I went to Ilan and become their computer teacher and this year I just graduated with the students so I went there just like a normal class every week I spend a whole day and teach over 100 students they are 8th grade and now it's 9th grade so I teach two years there and just just practice or gain my experience in the school and I also realized that the kids in the school actually they don't need to you don't need to teach them you don't need to expect them to become a very professional like coder or programmer you just need to give them the different technology to help them to gain some imagination and so we did different topic like we teach them a basic of HTML and CSS and we also teach them like how to if you want to resolve a big problem what's the first step so probably you need to learn how to how to create a mind map and we also try to cooperate with we also bring some resource to like Google we got over 200 cardboard and we just make the students to try to to make them and the interesting is we can try the different way to teach the kids so like a Google I didn't tell them how to do that step by step instead we ask them to search on the internet to probably search on the YouTube to see to watch the video and then try to try to make their own one and we use also teach them the Python so you can see because we don't have much time in Taiwan we only have like in junior high every week the students only have 45 minutes in computer class so we didn't have much time so that's why we just teach them based on the project so the consequence is there is one student using APE by using like APE Inventor and then try to make APE to teach the grandma in Kaohsiung how to use the mobile phone yeah so so so the most important thing is I also discover that in this age the female the girls usually learned well than the male yeah probably it's because the girls are more concentrated on the class and we also have the club class so we use like teach them the do-know club class is lead by another volunteer and make the the cars, the wheel cars and every kids in the class are learning very happy yeah we also have the different like projects in the school and so what I really want to share is first thing is we probably based on type A based on type A but we worked very hard to make more people to start knowing what we are doing and trying to reduce the barriers so people probably will feel wow coding is very difficult but actually when we try to use the very simple way like out of code we can tell them hey it's not difficult it's very easy you can start it yeah so this year I think we try to work out of type A and like Xin Zhu Yilan and we want to you know encourage more people out of type A not only in type A and we also have a pair programming the pair programming is like one on one and you can just code by you can have a one mentor to help you and yeah so this one is our playing this year we want to have a local coding club but now we really need like a sponsorship and volunteers can help us to start a local coding club yeah so if you are wanting here you have any resource or you have time can support us so feel free to contact me yeah so we also have to cooperate with like bookstore in Taiwan to bring like because I think reading ability is very important on coding so that's why I just use this one just host this event yeah so yeah I don't have many time so probably later we can interact more okay so thank you everyone hello hello hello hey thank you Johnny for sharing us and actually yes it's very important for to reduce the gender guys very important from education and yes and sorry and I hope that we have still have five more minutes so yeah Johnny and start Johnny long time thanks for being here and for having me on the panel my name is Ronda my pronouns are she and I'm with the deviant project since 2000 or even longer but official deviant developer since 2000 by 2004 in about I realized that I'm trans and that was also about the time when the deviant women project was founded and the reason for the deviant women project was to encourage more women to participate within deviant to increase the visibility of the women we already have in deviant and to provide mentoring and also role models there were two conferences held one in Barcelona and one in Bucharest where all the speakers there were done by people who identify female and yeah the deviant women project is still around then there's the second point within the debcon we have this diversity bursary which is was going around as a deer during debcon heidelberg or maybe even a bit before for 2016 it was sort of a separate effort where people could roll up for diversity reasons and to increase the diversity of the people participating in the debcon since last year it is an integrated part in the bursary process so when you register for the conference you have this special field where you can fill in diversity criteria which sort of allows you to get funding travel sponsorship food sponsorship for the different diversity criteria which includes amongst others gender identity people from underrepresented countries social minorities or even age and two years ago in Cape Town I was personally addressed by some people at the conference that it might be time to find a specific diversity chapter within debian we had one IRC session so far but we have a dedicated IRC channel where we hang out and chat with each other and exchange different things that we stumble upon we had two sessions last year at the debcon where we talked about in what direction we might want to go with the team and how we might want to represent it and there were some difficulties in my personal life which sort of didn't allow me to pursue it during the last year very much but I really want to have this diversity team founded we will have another session this week look I'm not exactly sure I think it's on Tuesday but look it up in the schedule you will find it the idea behind the diversity team is to increase visibility within the debian community because we actually are quite diverse already but it might not look like that on the outside we have people from different ethnic minorities, racial minorities different age groups different gender identities or sexual minorities whatever and it might not look like that on the outside so we really should work on creating visibility to make it not just being part of the code of conduct but also having it really visible and spread the word to the outside that we are very welcoming thanks I wish we can have some Q&A but I suppose our time is up so is this okay I think the Mr. Tang is waiting there okay and one or two questions any one or two questions and also if then I have a question for each one of you I think I think I am very aware of what Ronda has done in the past in the debian community but I still can see the gap between the gender gap and also other communities gap I have a short question in one minute or even 30 seconds be sure okay what do you think we should do besides besides the code of conduct to see more different faces for example to see more women here to see more women to see more transgender to see more for example the different language what do you think what should we do in addition to code of conduct and who wants first I recently read up about this paper from a German language linguist and he spoke about why we need politically correct language to reduce to equal out the levels of people participating in communication because they are much more downgrading words for minorities than for the majority so to say and to have an equal level of communication between people we really should work on the language level to read out these terms that even if they are sexist, racist, ableist there are so many different discrimination levels going on and we have to raise the awareness what we do with language and how it affects other people thank you I will interpret this as we need to have more clear plans and okay so I think from my experience face to face interaction is the most powerful things like today I'm staying here I can see everyone in this room right I think if you want to change or you want to like the gender issue you want to change the gender issue you want to improve it the face to face interaction is the most important because people you talk to the people and you get some feedback from the people and if you have a discussion which means you have a chance you have an opportunity to change the people's mind yeah thank you face to face is very important I see that many people are not watching her just kidding okay what steps should we take to get more people actually I think there are only two requirements we need to take two actions we need to take one is we must have empathy to everyone because everyone is all of us and the second is don't think you know everything because when you know more you will know you know less I don't know if you get it you know more and you will know you know less and if you know more so you know that there are many more many many things you don't know and there are the two key points I want to check out and I hope you just keep in my empathy and you don't know anything that's all thank you thank you thank you for everybody's share and just some advice advertisement and Dongda is organizing a diversity team we do really need more voices especially from different people so please come join us maybe we will have a more discussion on our progress and what we can do here thank you