 But talking about digital part of work to Carlos You took we talk a lot of nowadays about blockchain About cryptocurrency and our Facebook is launching a Libra Microchips are becoming cheap and cheaper that you can almost print them on goods How is all this playing into the illicit trade? Is it you see it in the positively? Is it helping with helping the bad guys or the good guys? Thank you. I'll visit as yesterday. We'll say technology can be used as a weapon or as a tool You can destroy or you can construct just to give you a history on the Technology what we call now blockchain and how it can really enhance the fight against illicit trade The worldwide web now, which is the invention that happens in Geneva was expert of the United Nations when the web is started in Geneva And and at that time was a lot of hope as we expected the web to solve a lot of problems The web is now you have a 10 trillion dollar economy sitting on the top of the web Companies like Apple Facebook Amazon Google all of them have been extraordinary Efficient in monetizing the worldwide web and creating our wealth But they have been extraordinary and efficient in one specific thing, which is digital identity The web is blind the web doesn't know what it's doing So you can obviously transfer good things on the web, but you can also transfer very bad things So what has happened is that illicit trade and and not only listed trade But also issues related to the underground economy are using the web in an extraordinary Efficient way to do bad things so And the reason is that the people and they are trying and there has been some very good companies healthy image And we have been helping many companies in wise key to to improve their defense system These companies are working in silos and and when you are dealing with a four 2.4 trillion dollar problem, which is the illicit trade problem. You cannot Work in silos so so you have to build platforms and the platform is something that Stakeholders can through one entry point access endless amount of data Which is not the case now if a government or a private sector company wants to investigate illicit trade issues Where they go they go to a database those databases that are not available to them They have to negotiate credentials to access the database. So this has been extraordinary and efficient that's why Interpol and many of the police organizations around the world are totally in a situation of the need to centralize data but data is very difficult to centralize because They are you know commercial issues on data ownership intellectual property issues. So in the last five years a new Technology has arrived with the name blockchain, which could be the beginning of solving the problem Although I always say and I have been working on blockchain from the beginning Blockchain is only one of the component not the only one But we are creating in security and cybersecurity and technology a conversions historic point Where what we call deep tech deep technologies are converging so you have artificial intelligence you have blockchain You have digital identity you have internet of thing IOT all of these technologies are now talking to each other And this is creating an unprecedented power to solve critical problems Then we didn't have the tools before to solve So in the cases of objects my company now I was in the UN before then I left I created a company because I really wanted to Solve the problem not only talk about the problem We already secure 1.2 billion objects So those are watches in Switzerland and they are now traced with a microchip then you are putting inside the watches Those are wines. Those are perfumes that is food products Because the trust ability of a product cannot be established if you don't have a digital identity Down the digital identity which is embedded into the product like this is say by a microchip is also available in a blockchain ledger So for you to understand if you don't understand Or you are not being confronted to blockchain technology the beauty of blockchain is that Decentralized data you don't have to have the data in one place So if a digital identity of my object, let's say a watch of LVMH is Trace of the object level is also available the digital twin of that product is also available in a ledger And then that ledger is available to anyone to see so nobody can Stop you to access the ledger. So let's say that a watch has a chip and that chip is in the ledger when a person walks into a customs Custom can detect then the product is fake or has been falsified because the identity of the product is not being embedded So this is creating a very interesting proposition It is a great advantage also for brands and if brands do not cooperate in this this will never happen Is that brands are also able now to know where their objects are And who owns those objects? The ownership of the object has a very big advantage for the brand because brands do not know their customers anymore in our days Many brands with a section maybe all of the image that has a very strong digital strategy They will need to go to somebody like Facebook or somebody like Amazon to know who their clients are because the client is Register with Facebook and not the the the platform So that creates an advantage because not at the same time you are protecting your product You are creating a key why KYC know your customer Facility than a blow brands to re-engage back again with customers now then you have the Libras of the world I personally you know Libra is in Geneva. I am in Geneva I am very much involved with the team there than they are trying to understand how Libra can expand out of Geneva Libra has a good things and a bad things They has an amazing thing which is they are creating a digital currency which could become dominant because they have 2.5 billion Active users the other thing if in Libra do not apply the financial Regulation principles of KYC could also be used To basically move money illegally on the internet So putting KYC compliance in projects like Libra on cryptocurrency is a must to have Otherwise goods that they are Technologies that they are developed with the intention to do good and not by doing bad I mean one example is the dark web the dark web now smooth one trillion Dollars economy the dark web was originally Designed by intelligent services and they want to enter into the underworld And underworld and see where bad things were happening there is what's actually Absorb use and manipulated by the underworld to do basically their own digital Ecosystem so good news is a lot of technologies are there the bad news that we need Conferences like this and international multi-stakeholder Approach to use those technologies in a way that satisfy regulatory requirements worldwide Thank You Carlos. So on technology some parts your upbeat some parts you are still doubtful Libra needs to be regulated in a in there in the right way before going to your first time Maybe come back to Laurent. What is your opinion? You are from 20 million in one year now 21 million Take downs do you think we are you winning the battle or is a mountain which one to reach the top? There's another one even bigger We're at 20 million to take down now our objective is to pass a 20 million to stay down Because today obviously the announcements are replacing each other I think Carlos speaking of the technical aspect is indeed a very important help for the right-wing But I think there is a normative level a legislative level Sur lequel il faut vraiment qu'on puisse avancer Aujourd'hui évidemment il faut qu'on arrive à une responsabilisation des grands acteurs de l'internet Parce que du travail a été fait en matière de fiscalité en matière de contenu et ne en matière de contenu à caractère terroris et des discussions avance chaque fois pour que ce type de contenu soit enlevé en amont par les géants de l'internet et pas seulement appréciablement Je pense qu'aujourd'hui il faut dans cette approche globale que j'appelle de mes vœux arriver à une responsabilisation des géants de l'internet sur l'ensemble en réalité des contenus illicite C'est-à-dire cessons de créer des micro-sujets suivant en réalité la nature des contenus qu'ils sont diffusés et rentrons finalement dans une des préconisations qu'avait fait la Commission européenne la dernière Commission européenne en mai 2018 c'est-à-dire en appelé à une responsabilisation sur l'ensemble des contenus illicites c'est-à-dire ayons cette approche transversale Aujourd'hui nous avons tous cette autorité publique titulaire de droit on a un ennemi commun qui sont ses pirates, ses contrefacteurs, ses organisations criminelles et pourtant nous répondons de manière trop morcelée donc cette approche transversale, cette approche globale doit aussi venir aujourd'hui sur internet et j'espère que ces débats seront aussi l'occasion de faire avancer ce sujet de responsabilisation des grands géants de l'internet parce que sans ce travail qu'ils doivent faire techniquement en amont et disons les moyens de le faire c'est-à-dire placer des instruments de filtrage pour filtrer les contenus illicites qu'il s'agisse de contrefaçon ou de contenus haineux ou de contenus à caractéristes et je pense qu'une bonne partie du sujet aura été réglée par cette implication plus forte de ces géants de l'internet dans ce combat I think that's a perfect and a pathway for Jean Francois about regulation