 Our next caller is George from North Carolina. Hey, what's up, George? How can we help you? Hey, guys. Well, thank you for allowing me to ask a question. Very grateful here. And I love you guys. Still have been listening for a long time now. Thank you. Nice. I just wanted to go ahead and ask this question is actually on behalf of my wife. She is pretty much my workout partner and she works out with me consistently or did before COVID. So I just wanted to get her a little bit healthier. So she pretty much has worked out in hypertrophy setting for a few years now and also just constantly going in between standard calories and a calorie deficit. So I just wanted to get your guys opinion and help her moving forward to really get over that mental aspect of increasing the calories to being a quote unquote bokeh stage and then also to focus really on building strength and then instead of just trying to work out to look a certain way. Yeah. So what was the name Sal of the episode that we did just recently? Was it called Why Women Should Bold? Oh, there you go. Yeah. We just did it. We did a whole thing like perfect for her. If you haven't heard that already. That's a great idea. Never listen to that episode because the whole episode was dedicated to why women should bulk or the benefits of bulking. Maybe Doug or Andrew could look up what number that was. I know we did it in the last couple of weeks. Yeah. I mean, obviously look, here's the deal. The benefits you'll get from feeding her body to build strength is she's going to have a faster metabolism. It's going to make getting lean much easier in the future and much easier to maintain. Of course, more muscle means more curve. A lot of women are afraid of building muscle because they think it's going to make them look not feminine. This is not true except in really, really rare extreme cases, building muscle just adds more curve. You have a rounder, but you have better posture. You have a nice tight midsection, a nice hamstring. So those are the benefits. But the problem is when you're communicating to somebody who's got kind of a psychological issue with a particular pursuit and you're trying to give them logic, it doesn't always work. Really, I would say, if she was my client, this is what I would do. I would say, okay, here's what we're going to do. I'm going to want you to take your scale and I want you to put it in the closet. You're not going to weigh yourself for the next two to three months. We're not going to weigh you at all. All we're going to focus on is how strong you are. That's the goal. Let's get you strong. Now at the end of two months or three months, then we'll test your body fat. We'll see your lean body masses and we'll see what we've done within that period of time. But for the next few months, don't weigh yourself and we're just going to focus on strength. And if she can just do that, that should be enough to get her out of that mental block. George, the episode number is episode 1565. So 1565. And I would really point her in that. We could sit here and give you all these like little one-liner tips, but I know how hard this is to convince. I mean, the reason why we did that episode and wanted to talk about it for a full hour was because it was one of the most difficult things for me to do as a coach, getting a client, a female client that would come in and tell me, Adam, I want to lean out or look a certain way. And I assess their diet. I assess what's going on with them. And, you know, almost always what I want to do is increase calories and focus on gaining and quote, unquote, bulking. And that just scares the shit out of all of them. And it would be quite the process, even as a professional, right? She's coming to me, hiring me. I'm supposed to be the professional. So I could I totally probably know how you feel, you know, as the husband trying to convince your wife to do this and how challenging that is. So I would listen to that episode because we really unpack all of that and we give all the points and it goes it goes against like everything you hear in pop culture, every kind of like magazine that, you know, women are reading all the marketing out there. That's just dog shit. And so that is something that we're always having to address, you know, with new clients coming in and having these type of goals. So great episode to really, you know, turn her on to to understand you know, better how this will really benefit her. Yeah. And, you know, here's a deal, too. If she can do this for about two or three months, usually at the end of that period, they're convinced usually after, you know, 60 to 90 days you're showing them, oh, my gosh, you're eating 500 more calories a day. I just tested your body fat. It didn't go up, but you gained some muscle. You have a faster metabolism or you got leaner. That sometimes that would even happen. Wow, it looks like your body fat percentage actually went down and you're eating more food and you're stronger and you feel good. And oftentimes at that point they would say, OK, now I trust the process. It's just they need that proof initially. And that's the hard first step is the hard. I remember actually even kind of lying and like to my clients to get them to do this when what I mean by that is like, I would be obviously as a coach, I'm tracking all their calories. And so, you know, let's say I'm training Susie and Susie is eating 1500 calories. She's afraid to death of bulking and stuff like that. Instead of me even terming what we're doing as bulking or even letting her know. Different meal plan. And yeah, I just I just I would add. I would just say, you know what, I really want to see if I add this to your diet. If you notice a difference in your skin and your mood and your hair and your energy. And I like I would tie it to something totally different. And then I would just add a couple hundred calories. And it could be like an apple and in ten almonds or something. And I would just keep doing that incrementally until I've got to a point where I bumped it to like you said, like 500 calories. Say, guess what we've done, you know, and then explain it. I tricked you. You know what I used to say? I used to say this, I would have these conversations. And then I would look at them and I'd say, look, I'm going to ask you this one time to put your trust in me. And I promise I'll never have to ask for you for your trust again. And that sometimes would work because I think at that point, the person just wants to give up and give control to someone else to some extent. And that would work sometimes. But yeah, this is tough being the husband. You know your wife the best, right? Whatever method that is. Hey, look, if she does, by the way, if she starts doing this, you cannot compliment her enough. OK, you got to encourage what's going on. So she starts to eat more. She starts to lift. Oh, my God, honey, you look incredible. Wow, look at your butt. My God, he feels so tight just to kind of, you know, make her feel good about no, that's a great point because the next hurdle, you know, that you would have as a coach or in this case, you know, a workout partner is then she does start to build a little muscle, but then clothes might start fitting a little tighter. And right away, they start freaking out, like, oh, my God, my jeans don't fit. I told you, I did not want to do this stupid bulk. And now I'm getting fatter or bigger. And it's like, and so Sal's point is so on point. You have to, you know, continue to reassure that you you love the way her body is shaping up and changing the definition. You're right, right. So make sure you are complimenting through that process because, you know, once you do finally convince them that it's smart and a good idea for them to bulk, then they start doing it. And then the next thing they do is start saying, like, oh, my God, my shirts are my pants or something's fitting tight. I'm getting too big. Yeah, a little manipulative. That's a little. I was like, yeah, I definitely did listen to that episode. I pointed her towards that one as soon as it came out because I just knew how beneficial and how it made me think about things differently. I was a trainer in a big box gym for a year before covid happened. And I just realized that most of the women clients that I had, they listened to me overlisten to any of their other family members. So that was my main reason for reaching out to you guys is just to, you know, get an answer from an outside source because being the husband, you know, I can only do so much before she tells me to go away. That's true. What's what's her what's your wife's name? Kirstie Kirstie or Kirstie? K-I-R-S-T-Y. All right. Kirstie, this is Sal from Mind Pump. I know you know who I am. You listen to my podcast. I want you to bulk. Do a slow bulk for about two or three months. Focus on strength. Don't weigh yourself anymore. Trust me. It's going to work. You got what happens at the end. Awesome. Thank you, guys. Is there any specific program that I should point it to? Having a bottle like I was thinking maybe that would be a good one. That's perfect. That's ideal. That's the one. Do that. OK, awesome. Thank you very much, guys. I appreciate it. Thanks, George. Boy, that's a hard one to tell you. That's a hard one as a as a trainer and a coach. I mean, that was let alone your husband. Yeah, that's I mean, it took me over three years before I could even get a hold of Katrina's diet and training. You know, even even with all my experience her knowing me, seeing everything that I'd done in fitness. I didn't even touch that area because it's it's just tough when you're when you're of the family, when you're in when you're inside that. What is what's that? What's that saying, Doug, hard to be a profit in your own? What's the in your own country? Is that what it is? Yeah. Yeah, that's a tough one.