 Hi, this is Pat McDonald, your host for Vote for Vermont, where our tagline is Listening Beyond the Soundbites. My special guest tonight is Adana Curtin, who is the chair of a very long-titled committee, Governors' Committee on the Employment of People with Disabilities, correct? Correct. GCEPD. That is how most of us say it. Thank you for having me. Thank you. Ben's a little late this evening, so if you see him sneak in at some point in the show, he will have arrived on time safely anyway. So we always ask our guests to talk a little bit about themselves and if you could do that for us. Sure. So I came to the Governors' Committee by way of having worked in the world of workers' compensation through the Department of Labor that you're familiar. And I recognized that there was this opportunity to have a voice for injured workers and their return to work after their injury. And so that is what led me to the committee. And I had worked previously for the State of Vermont Vote Rehab as a transition counselor, working with youth to encourage them into the world of work, either directly out of high school or after college and assisting with their employment planning beyond high school. And I had worked at the time with Diane Delmas, who was the director of Vote Rehab. Who is still here. She is. And let's say we had Hugh Bradshaw on the other day. And I was surprised that Diane was still here. She's been there, thank goodness, because she does a good job. Yeah, she really runs a great ship over there. So I got in touch with her, actually, and I asked her about the committee. And she is a member. She is a mandatory member, as state agencies are, represented on the committee. So I was really fortunate to bring those two worlds together, having worked for the two agencies. At the time, I was working for a private vote rehab company that did workers compensation, disability case management. And so blending those two worlds and really encouraging people to just continue thinking about not only employment of people with disabilities, but retention of employees with disabilities was really the impetus for me. Well, I must say, I think things have changed a lot in that world of getting people to work and certainly keeping them working full time or a long time. I asked Hugh, what's the change? Some things was different. Because when I was there, it was a little bit of a struggle. And I was delighted to see that things are different. And I'm thrilled. So this must be an exciting job for you. It really is. The governor's committee has the opportunity to really pull together representation from business people, people with disabilities, state stakeholders, and service providers. So it really sparks a great conversation from the many perspectives. That's a pretty, we can skip to talk about the committee. It's a pretty large committee. Is it not? You've got like 20, 23 members. So there's mandatory representatives, I'm sure, from the Department of Labor, and all vote rehab and those kind of things. But are there citizens and people from the outside world? Yes, so we have people with disabilities who are strong advocates for employment. And we are really always so pleased for their input above and beyond all. We have business owners and business members who have themselves supported the hiring and retention of people with disabilities. And then service providers, which is where I fell from my last role in the realm. So people who are not employed by the state but who are providing services to employing people with disabilities. Next week, we are going Tuesday, which is certainly off cycle for when we do these things, to Waterbury where they have equipment that's designated to help people with disabilities at work. Yes. And Hugh suggested we go on. I'm very excited because I've been doing some research about it. And there's so many new things that are out there that can help people. Yes, actually, my current role as field services manager for Vogue Rehab, the assistive technology program falls under my world. So it does. Well, we'll be there at 1 o'clock next Tuesday, I believe. So I'm bringing one of the cameramen from here, and we're going to shoot off-site. Yes. I thought that's a visual thing, not a, oh, well, you have a lot to oversee. It's a full-time job, I'm assuming. It is a full-time job. And then some, right? It is, yes. For you. So what is, like, when was this established? 1963, originally. And then it was amended some years later. It was originated by the Medicaid Integration Fund and really was charged with informing the governor of any issues related to employing Vermonters with disabilities. So you wanted to talk about that a little bit later, because that's, how do you do that? I mean, how, first of all, it's a small state, but not that small. So how do you know what the disabled folks are dealing with and what the employee, I mean, how do you put that together to be able to advise the governor? And I'm sure with that report, there's some recommendations. Right. So I think it happens in a bunch of different ways. The committee itself, I think, is an avenue to do that because we have all those people around the table who are providing their input. And we start every committee meeting with what we call mission moments. And so we ask everyone around the table what it is that has happened to them between meetings that is to this cause, right? So anything that has any outreach they've had to individuals that have sparked the conversation of employment and retention, anything, any questions that have come into them, anything they've observed. And so it starts out with a conversation, just keeping it real. What are you seeing out there? What matters to you? What are other people telling you who know you sit on this committee that matters to them? Let's talk about it, and let's see what we can do with that information. Do you meet with the groups of employers and groups of folks with disabilities? I know, well, we forgot to mention, to me, one of your most famous members of the Sterling Beoples. Sterling has been on this show, I don't know, I think four or five times. We've done lots of things on the, and what she's done herself to try to get employers to hire the folks with disabilities. She has a website, and she's very active that way, and always speaking somewhere, but she's a... She is a rock star in her own right. She is, well, she won that... Rising Star. Rising Star, can you believe that? I can, and she deserved that for sure, and she really is, and yes, so she is on our committee and has been for a couple years now, and she actually helped recruit from the Center for Disability Inclusion that is within UVM, and so we have Darren McIntyre, who is from there, also sitting on our committee. Yeah, people are drawn to Sterling, she kills me, on her Facebook, she's got a picture with whatever star, like if she goes to some convention, she's got a picture with whoever, the keynote speaker, a star, and she's funny, but she belongs with the Green Mountain Advocates, and do you speak with them, or maybe Sterling translates back from the committee, because they're a very active group? Yeah, so part of our charge also is to stay involved and build relationships with other agencies and organizations that have similar missions, so we partner with BCIL often, and the Vermont Coalition for Disability Rights, and so yes, we are attending different events that they're putting on, APSI, which Sterling sits on, so yes, we involve ourselves wherever we at the Green Mountain Self-Advocate conferences that they hold, we also have representatives from veterans, we have the Director of Veterans Affairs, Bob Burke on our committee, and Larry Forsyth, who is with Department of Labor, who assists employees who are veterans getting back to work, so we go to veteran events that are held, so we do try and just maintain those relationships. And are employers open to talking to you about hiring folks with disabilities, because I don't know whether they'd be worried about the additional, maybe if there is additional support that's required to hire, but I think what a great feeling of satisfaction to be able to do something like that. Yeah, I mean, it certainly runs the gamut of how comfortable and willing employers are to be as honest as they need to be, I think, to ask the questions that present that barrier. I think that CWS, Hugh Bradshaw, and now Piper, who you had on recently, they have done a lot with Weber and the BAMs to really promote those open conversations and that idea that they really are operating from this dual customer approach where they understand that employers have the needs that need to be met and they have jobs that need to be done, and they want a very clear understanding of what that job is so that they can introduce people who are a good match. And I think, you know, as long as there is that sense of openness and that willingness to just have a very real conversation, I think it breaks down a lot of those barriers. I mean, Hugh walks the walk, talks to talk to me. He's like a Mary Moulton and they just believe and they love the people that they serve, so you can tell them. I think that clients can feel that too. I absolutely agree. And you know, there is really something pretty contagious about that feeling when you see people who want this so bad, they want to succeed, they want a job, they want to be productive and tax-paying, yes. And when you see that happen, it's pretty powerful and you just want to keep doing it. The last Disability Awareness Day, which we'll talk about, because it's coming up pretty soon, we were in the cafeteria and the governor came, and of course you have a whole roomful of people with disabilities, and the governor was talking about meeting people for jobs and looking for people, and I'm sitting thinking to myself, hello, this entire room would raise their hand and say, you know, pick me, because they want to work. And in a lot of them, because oh, I know what it was, they were looking at taking away the money of the self-help people that I don't, I apologize for that. The personal care attendants. Personal care attendants, and so there were several, their maxes, I spoke to him for quite a while, and these people are successful as long as they have some, just a little additional help, which doesn't take away from the employer. They still have to meet their goals, and they just have somebody to offer a little help, drive them back and forth, explain some things to them, and they were going to cut that money, and I'm like, you've got a roomful of people who want to work, it can't be that much money in this bigger scheme of things. Yeah, I think that overriding message that people with disabilities are underemployed, and or unemployed at a ratio that does not compare to the general public, and yet statistically, they are more loyal employees, and I think all of us, right, when you think about it, we gain our social network, and our self-worth, and our identity through work, and it's very important for people. That's great, I just think it's amazing, and I'm really looking forward to seeing the new technology. I've just heard a lot about it, and I thought, well, this'll be really interesting. Yeah, so you must be meeting with Tracy, probably, and Graham. I guess they're having some kind of staff meeting that day, so they're all, whoever, is all coming in, so I'm gonna get a chance to meet with everybody. Yeah, it's an impressive trial center, and it was previously right in the Capital Plaza, building on the second floor. Oh, no kidding. It used to be over there, yes, and now that the new site is available, it's right at the ground floor of the state office complex, and it's much larger, and the equipment, I, myself, took a tour just a few days ago. That's very impressive, so I'm really looking forward to that. So, I guess the employee, I think I'm gonna struggle with it. How do you, when you first approach an employer, how do you get them to realize the benefit of hiring? Of course, I guess the job markets will stretch these days, it's hard to find anybody to do jobs, but how do you convince them that this is the right thing to do, and that you would make the right match? It's the person's character and abilities, not so much the disabilities, it's the abilities that you're matching. Yeah, that's right. I think it starts with trust in relationship building, and I think people put a lot of time and energy into fostering those relationships with employers, and getting them to understand that this really isn't just about being nice and doing something kind, although it is, and it's wonderful. It really is the idea that in this process, they will find wonderful employees, and that's everyone's goal, and that hiring people who have been introduced to them by supports allows for that communication to be ongoing and continued, so that if there is an issue that comes up, there is an opportunity to have help in having those conversations, both for the employee and the employer, so that if there is miscommunication or misunderstandings, there is a buffer to have those difficult conversations. And are you, I'm sure you and your staff and maybe Hughes are available if something goes awry and some things need to be adjusted and stuff for the employee and the employer, I'm sure that people come and help to get things back on track. Yeah, that's the whole idea. So the first part is to be proactive and make sure that the job is as great a fit as you could imagine it to be for both. And then next would be to figure out if there were some reasonable accommodations to be considered, maybe it is AT and maybe it's using devices that will make the job more successful for someone make the work environment a better fit. So after trying to accommodate it and seeing if it's the right fit, then yes, then it's that ongoing, just checking in when needed and just continuing to foster that relationship so that they do feel comfortable reaching out and having the conversation. Years ago when I lived in Tarrytown, New York, I worked for a company whose mission it was to hire almost all people with disabilities. I was hired and there were several people in my kind of jobs with a lot of traveling and stuff going around. And it was the most encouraging. Nobody paid attention to anybody's disabilities. I mean, it was just, let's get the work done and let's get moving, it was great. At first I wasn't sure what to expect and I was there maybe a week and I'm like, oh, this is like any other place and it's regular people and doing regular things and it was amazing. It was just fun and you didn't think about it after a while. Fun is a great word and that diversity that happens in the right work cultures, it improves the environment for everybody and it does. It creates just an overall better feeling and I always think about that for the case of workers comp too that I knew that employers who were good about bringing employees back after their injury meant that it was likely that they were having less injuries happening in the company and that they had probably a higher retention rate because they were treating people well and that always works. And so companies who tend to hire people with disabilities are overall good employers and they probably hire better talent and keep them. Well, I think they look beyond, they look at the person. Yes, it's about the abilities. How they think and what they do and what the CEO of this company was disabled himself and he just decided that that's what they're gonna do in their company and it worked great. They were very successful so it worked great. I bet they were. So you have a tagline, I guess that's what we call it. It says barrier free employment for all Vermatres. How did that come about? Well, I think it's the idea that you sort of just touched on that when we look at people as individuals and their strengths and their abilities and focus on that, because all of us, let's be honest, all of us have things that we're not as good at as others. Well, so here's that. Yes, that's true. And aren't as strong in some ways as we maybe wish we were or others are. And we've all just landed in positions that have focused on our strengths if we're successful in those positions. And so that's really breaking down the barriers. It's really looking at what people's abilities are, looking at people as individuals, figuring out how they do contribute to the work culture and the job itself and that's how you start breaking it down. And then there's the flip side for employers. And I think it's breaking down the barriers that they see a lot of times their myths and a lot of times the concerns that they have are based on things that maybe others have told them or... Preconceived notions of what it's all about. Yeah, and so when you're able to dispel those and when we are able to offer exposure of all the successes that happen out of these great job matches, I think people respond and they want to bring that into their own workplace. So I think exposure, this show is, we are so appreciative of being invited because it's more exposure to having this conversation and encouraging even one employer to think about reaching out to us. And I think if you take a little time to get to know the person, I mean, we were talking about Sterling. I mean, that woman is so funny and she's so sharp. I think she blew my husband away because when I was introducing, of course I've been talking, I talk about Sterling at home all the time, Sterling this. We all do. And she just said, she's amazing. I mean, she is. She is amazing. She's so quick. And funny is all get out. Oh my God. But anyway, but I sadly, I don't know, I've got to watch the time here. I talked to her, but I sadly, I went to a funeral down in New York in Territown, where I used to live. And there was a woman sitting opposite me. I didn't know her and she was with her daughter who was a Down's syndrome, not a child. She was a woman. And this woman did not think like Vermonters with children with disabilities. She, I don't know how this child is ever going to exist when mom passes away or gets too old today. She is so, thinks this child really can't do much. And I was looking at her face and her eyes and she's all, she's alive and well. And I was talking about some of the things that we do here in Vermont. And the mother, oh no, no, no, no, no. Thank you for trying. Oh, I'm like, you've missed an opportunity because I could tell she wanted to communicate and she wanted to be part of the part of what was going on. And mom just was, I think she was afraid. Yeah, I think that is where it comes from. And, you know, as a transition counselor, when I first moved to Vermont and I took the job as a transition counselor, I did, I witnessed parents who ran the gamut of that level of protecting versus allowing that what we call failure, risk of failure, right? And so the ability to let, we all do that as parents anyway, but there is, sure, an added fear around that. And we have at Vogue Rehab, there is the transition counselor program. Tara Howe is the manager of that program. And it is a great effort that is put into having these conversations within now much younger and getting involved in this idea of transition as young as 14 and potentially younger to really start to show what's possible and have those conversations. I think this mom needed to talk to somebody and I said, where'd you come to Vermont? She was looking for, we've abolished them here. Sheltered workshops. They closed the one that her daughter was in and she was very upset about it and I said, well, we don't have them in Vermont because we think they can do much better things for them rather than the sheltered workshop approach. That is actually, when I graduated from college, my professor was also a program director at Goodwill in Massachusetts and that she got me my first job out of college as an operations coordinator at Goodwill and my job was to help transition people out of this sheltered workshop that was in Salem Mass and it was a wonderful experience because I did, I got to see that change. The spark in their eyes, I'm like, whoa, I did this. Yes, and the people who thought they couldn't, who did and how that trickles out and there were still a lot of sheltered workshops in Massachusetts at the time that I moved to Vermont and when I moved here and learned that that was not going on, it was a happy day. Yes, well, I know we talk about that a lot. Now you publish, I have to get on this newsletter list. You publish a quarterly free email, right, e-newsletter. Yes, abilities. It's called call abilities. Could you talk about what you try to cover in the newsletter and different stories if there's any one that you might wanna share with us? Sure, so it tends to be quarterly. Sometimes we put out special ones for special reasons. We always like to highlight the award winners for our Spirit of the ADA awards. We like to highlight if we've been to certain events, we do the Business Expo every year. Oh, do, great. Yes, we have been, I learned that I think this year they're doing away with the B2B. It's almost like speed dating, but you get to be in front of an employer for I think it's 15 minutes. Oh, no kidding, really, oh. Yeah, I have to find out for sure if that's true. But so we were scheduled right out. I think sometimes we would see 13 employers and we would just explain what it is that we're looking to do and people would sign up in advance on the schedule to be partnered up and have these conversations. No kidding, I've been there most every year and I don't know where I've been. I didn't understand what it was, that sounds great. Yeah, it was upstairs on the second floor. Yes, it was a wonderful experience and I would be sad to know that they really did do away with it. But a lot of employers that signed up, the first question I would ask is, what was it that drew you to meet with us and the first thing was usually Governor's Committee and people just attached sort of a Starstruck way about it and then next was Employees with Disabilities and a lot of the people who would come and sit down with us had family members or they themselves had a disability and wanted to tell their story or the story of their loved one who went to work and wanted to just sort of promote that and they were already doing that at their companies and wanted to let us know that they were doing it which we very much appreciated. We had this wonderful communication with Vermont Gas when we were there one year and they informed us about their efforts with veterans and disabled veterans and how much they made an effort to when people were deployed to bring them back after their deployment and made every attempt to make that a successful smooth transition back for them. That's excellent. Good for Vermont Gas. Nice for them. So people can sign up for this. Can they not through your website? For the newsletter abilities? Yes, we would love that. Yes, it's... And they can just go online and you can put your name and email address and okay, I'm gonna do that. Yes. Now you mentioned awards. You said last October was Disability Awareness Month and you give out awards. Could you talk a little bit about what you do for recognition? Sure, that's sort of our overriding event of the year. So we started in about April where we outreach to get nominations for employers who are representing the spirit of the ADA which is the name of the award. And so that falls under a couple of different categories. So it's employers who are accommodating the application process. So employers who may interview in a different way, who may override their usual practice of online only applications who will be willing to do it in sort of an old fashioned meet and greet, perform informational interviews. And then for people who accommodate the workplace in the way that you might imagine through assistive devices and assistive technology or to modify the actual job in a way that makes it work for the individual, maybe accommodating hours, whatever that might look like. And then lastly, who really do sort of just embrace and encourage the idea of making it a real, just a very natural landing spot for a person. And so for the past few years, so when we started doing this, we think had about three award winners and then it just kept growing and we kept redesigning it. So it is now at the point where this year I think we gave out 17 awards statewide and we opened it this year to the general public for nominations. Before that, we had been mostly going through CWS and Weber and Vogue Rehab who were offering up nominations of employers that they knew. And we realized that there are a lot of employees with disabilities who do not receive supports from state government or service providers. And so they may want to be recognizing their employers or people in the community who know of these employers who wanna recognize them. So we were pretty jazzed to do that and it worked out really well. We had this one young man from Williamstown who is an excavator who was on a snowboarding trip with his school and high school and had an accident that resulted in a spinal cord injury and he was very skilled and talented mathematically and had thought he was going in the direction of CAD design and one day his dad rented an excavating machine to just work in the backyard and he got up into it and decided that that feeling of being in this excavator was really what was what fell right for him. And so he went into business for himself as an excavator and then was hired by American consulting and engineering in Williamstown to do work for them. And this business, just an amazing group of people who they had their shop that at the time did not have wheelchair accessibility. They built a ramp just because he needed to get in and get his paycheck and get his work orders and never thought anything of it. Just that's what he needed to do to get his employee who he respected and valued into work. And so the employee, Eric nominated this employer. We chose this award winner and every year when we compile our list, we reach out to the governor and the governor's office and compare schedules for our month long of October events. We usually try and do two a day and break them up regionally. And so we presented him with the schedule and this was one that we knew mattered a lot to the governor. He talks often about his dad returning as a veteran who is an amputee and double amputee and working for BGS downtown. And so the governor attended this award. Yes, it was pretty powerful. And so those stories are just invaluable and that recognition to both the employee and the employer by the governor and by the community is pretty great. And a lot of times legislators come out to our awards. And do you have a way with the Capitol Plaza? No, we have the awards themselves when we're presenting the awards. We have them at the work site. And so they can invite all their employees and then their local legislators, anyone that they... So the governor went to this guys' whistle now? Yes, and it turns out that was who worked on, I want to say maybe they drilled his well or something 15 years ago when he pulled up. He set up and here before and yeah, so that was pretty great. The governor tells that story about his dad a lot. He does. Every time I've heard it for, when it's appropriate he tells the story and it's always so emotional for him because I know he had great feelings for his dad and his dad just did great family, great, I think four boys. Four boys? I'm not sure. But anyway, a whole bunch of kids. And life was great, so that's great. So speaking of disabilities, I think we were supposed to have Elaine Casey with you who's the vice chair and also executive coordinator for the GCEP. Can you say that without GCEP? You'd ever take a little practice. And could you tell her story a little bit and especially what she's done with the Teddy Bear Company? That is, there's some pictures of the bears and I'm gonna put them on at the end of the show. Yeah, so we are so disappointed not to have her here and we did not to have her here but she's asking that we could, after disability awareness day, if we could come back again, talk about what we did there. Absolutely. Introduce it to Eileen and ask her in real time her story. But the short of it is she was a runner and was wearing out her shoes, one shoe. And she kept going to, I think it was New Balance to ask for new shoes. And the man who had known her for a long time because she was such a runner said, you should not be wearing out these shoes the way you are. You need to go see a doctor. And she did and the doctor said, you have cancer. And it showed up through the shoes? And well, she was having pain in her legs and she thought it was the shoe. So she thought if she kept replacing the shoe, the pain would go away. But the doctor confirmed that she had cancer and notified her very quickly that she would need to have her leg amputated. So she did. And she was at the time working for WCAX and in sales. And so her job required her to really hustle, right? And so she started the process of being fitted for a prosthetic and realized that insurance did not cover it. And she had great insurance coverage through WCAX. Insurance didn't cover a prosthetic device. It did not. I can't even imagine the rationale that went behind that. No, and she will tell you what they said. I did. I'm gonna be angry. So she went to Vogue rehab and asked for assistance for the cost of the limb. And they started the process of trying to help without, also told her about low interest loans that she could apply for. Ultimately, they were able to secure funding to cover the cost of her prosthetic limb. And then she, in the meantime, decided that she would single-handedly start advocating for this to go away. So she worked to develop legislation with her legislator at the time. And they put that bill up and it passed. And she has since been successful reaching out to other states to help other states also advocate for that. Well, you definitely have to come back because I'd love to hear that story from the source. That's amazing. And what's keeping her today, and she told me that she gave me permission to share, is that she was flying back from a family visit in Florida and her leg was swollen from the air pressure. And because of that, they needed to remove the prosthetic and it was difficult for her to get off the plane and then here today. And she said, you know, it really goes to show what accessibility matters and what accommodating matters because that was completely out of her control, right? She is a mover and a shaker and her will does not stop her, but physically, you know, that was out of her control. And if, you know, you imagine what that's like in other people's jobs who are traveling for work and would have that situation. And if an employer was not understanding what that would mean for someone's livelihood when it's completely out of her control. I'm hoping the airline was sick. They took care of it. They would know how to do that, I hope. Yes, yes. She said she was in good hands, yes. Well, thank her very much for all of that. So tell us what she did with this, I love this, the Vermont Teddy Bear Company. This is just spectacular. So the Vermont, because she was a runner previously and they had known that and continues to run and she is also, I believe, chair of the Vermont Adaptive, Oh, no kidding. Adaptive Sports. Right. And so she remains very active in athletics. She organizes at Trap. She fits me to run it last year, which was wonderful. A 5K, 10K and a half marathon that they do in the trails at Trap. And she herself has a running blade. I was just going to ask if she has that. She does. Forget what they call it. But I guess they're running, but those things are fascinating to me. I would love to see one in, I see it on TV, but just to see how that works. We'll make her wear it to the interview. Yes, I think it's amazing. And she can run a little left for us. We know it from the Blade Runner. Yes, yes. So, and she runs the Vermont City Marathon on a relay for WCAX each year. So the teddy bear company found this out and they were, they had decided that they would indeed make teddy bears that showed this side of life. And so they made a running bear and a veteran a disabled veteran bear. And I believe there was a third that was also represented. Yeah, there were actually four of them. I'm trying to remember now what the, but there were four. And the difference was they said, is they used, if I called up and said, could you make a bear for my niece who's lost her leg, they would do that for the niece. But now they decided to have a line of bears in advance of anybody asking for them. And apparently it's going really well. How fabulous. Yeah, it's pretty, and there are more and more companies that are just building that into American Girl Doll Now has a wheelchair for dolls. Yep, Barbie also, so yeah. It's great, good for them. It's improving slowly but surely. So is there, do they just sell the bears or are there things that are written with the bear to encourage the new bear's owner or anything? That we're going to have to ask Eileen when she gets back. I don't know. What an opportunity to talk about different places you can go for resources and that's great. She must be very, she did this on her own? She, yeah, she really, she has her hands in many things. That's great. She's a pretty powerful woman, yes. That's excellent. Well, I had a woman that makes the Vermont Brownie company, Vermont Brownies. She's now with the Vermont Teddy Bear Company and it's bears and brownies. Okay, all right. And you can buy the bears that come along with the brownies. So they're being very, very creative over there. To follow. Oh, those are so well made. We should do this. Yes, I have one for each of my four children. Oh, do you? Yes, I have one. I have a legislator. Do you? A doll. When I was in the legislature, somebody gave me a legislative doll with a vest and a little carry on thing and said, you know, had the seal. So, and then that's going to, does she, do you guys take that places and use the bears at all? We haven't yet, but that's a good idea. Yeah. I mean, just to, if you're visiting people, that's great for you. You know, if we could talk about disability awareness day, that's pretty exciting. That's coming up and you also, I'd love you to read the names of the companies that got the awards. Sure. Because I think they deserve some recognition too. Sure. I'm thinking that maybe we'll bring the bears and have them that day. You should, you should. Yes, I really should. How nice to see somebody, I mean, I got a big kick out of the legislative bear. So, and my husband has one of, he was a state trooper, so he's got the state trooper bear. And you know, they just, hey, that's me. It's cool. I know it's a bear. It's wonderful. It's still cool anyway. So, for the past few years, I think this will be our third. We have pulled together the award winners from the previous year and the current year, and we invite them over to the Capitol Plaza on Disability Awareness Day. And in the morning, we have a work group, sort of a working session with these employers where we pick their brains, ask them for sort of their best practices of hiring people and retaining people with disabilities, and asking for their advice really on how to get this message out. So, earlier you asked, how do you break down these barriers? We have found that it is a real powerful way to do that is by using employers to talk to other employers, right? So, they listen more when it's someone who's gone through exactly what they're going through with regard to their shortage of workforce, you know, filling those positions that are hard to fill. And so, when they hear from other employers that this is an opportunity on how to make for an even better workforce, they listen. So, we use this opportunity to pull them together and ask them those questions. It's facilitated by this woman, Tiffany, who is part of workforce development at CCV. And it's a pretty organized morning and then we leave there and go over the last two years the governor has accommodated us in a way that he brings us into his chamber and he meets with all the employers and thanks them for their efforts, asks them to share any experiences or ask any questions that they want to. And then, we have arranged to have them recognized on the house floor. And so, one of the legislators will stand up in the past, it's Ben Bilbozzo. He's not there anymore, he didn't run this year. No, he did not, but Mark, Mark. Oh my God. I should know and. Mark who? Yes. So, he this year has agreed to, Mark, that is hot off the press that just happened in the last couple of days has agreed to be the one to introduce them. So, they come into the chamber a lot of times, it's the first time some of these employers have ever been to this state house. So, it's pretty exciting for them to come in and meet the governor and then to go in and stand up and have the legislators notice them. So, that's been pretty wonderful. And, I think this year, our topic is going to be, each year we pick a topic last year, it was transportation being a real issue, going around to the awards. We had been asked by one of the award winners who was the Aquatic Center down in the West Lab, White River area. They had talked to us about how they were trying to get more employees who were from downtown who would be able to take a bus and stop right there at the center, but they could not make this bus stop a reality. And so, they were trying to figure out how else to make it possible for employees to get to their location. And so, we got in touch with Ross McDonald from Govermont, who has undergone this big right, to make more transportation solutions. Oh, he's doing great. And so, he came in and he spoke to the employers and offered himself up as a resource and showed the launch of his new Govermont website, which was pretty wonderful. And then this year, we are looking to establish a Vermont professional network out of these. Yes, and I think every year they say to us, contact us throughout the year if there's anything you think we can do. And so, I think we have identified this as an opportunity to, if we form this committee of professionals who are doing this, we will start to use them in a bigger way. And so, that's what we are going to jump start. Kudos for sure. Yes, on the 27th. Yeah, I was sad that Bill left his button this year after him trying for years, this man was so dedicated to workforce development. They finally passed a bill that is so focused on workforce development and technical education. So, he was in here talking about the bill and I was so glad he left on that note that he finally got them to pay attention and to pass this bill. So, maybe they are paying attention to workforce development. Yeah, I think they have to. Bill Bata was our, we gave him a special award this year for being legislator of the year for this effort that he has definitely just been wonderful at. And we had also this year made a special award for our state agency award. Last year, V-TRANS was nominated as and won the Spirited the ADA award. And we decided that we need to each year try and make an effort to recognize state agencies that are taking this on. That makes a big, I tell you, having been ahead of a couple of years, that makes a huge difference with employees that somebody, because usually they don't get the awards. They get the, hey, you work for me, what are you doing? Right, right. And just to thank them, it makes a big difference. And they deserve it. They do. And this year it was the veterans home. And the veterans home has done a tremendous job, not only at hiring people with disabilities, but they are that double edged sword where they also bring back their employees after they've been injured. They do a very good job at bringing their employees back. So we recognize them down there at the veterans home. And Bill Batso was also recognized during that same event. So it was a really big turnout in Bennington. It surprised me when I was doing my research on Bill, what a great artist he is. Yes. And a recognized artist. Yes. He's got some pieces of artwork all around the state. It's just, it's like, Bill, really find the time for this. So, and talk about disability awareness day is February 27th. So it's all day at the state house and the Vermont Center, the Vermont Coalition for Disability Rights is the umbrella organization that really spearheads the day and they really pull out all the stops. So all day long, there are workshops and some rallying and some advocacy and education. There are booths set up to really represent different organizations that are on the front of disability awareness. And so each year they pick a different theme. I haven't learned yet what the theme is for this year. And then they sort of make the day around whatever that theme is by having workshops on the theme. And there was, two years ago, it was workforce. And that was a pretty wonderful day for the governor's committee to be part of that day and blend those missions. Yes. I'm trying to decide, there was one work where Max Barrows was facilitating it and they had different groups of people come up with a theme and present some personal stories about what happened to them under this theme in there. I showed it a lot on the video we did. These people have just, they were just amazing to be able to share their feelings and to do it in a way that was really meaningful. I was sitting there kind of gulping things down a little bit because I live in a, I sadly live in a cocoon sometimes I think because I don't see what's happening out there sometimes. Two people and the things that they deal with, discrimination against the disabled and stuff. And I feel, I don't know why, but I just don't, I don't. And when you hear them, because sometimes when I hear, oh, there's all these problems, I'm like, where? But they know. Yeah. And they weren't mad. They weren't, you know, shaking. They were just saying, here's what happened to me and here's how I felt. And I'm like, wow, powerful. Yeah, the endurance and the perseverance that is witnessed through these people who just every day work twice as hard to do, twice as much and it's powerful. Yeah, it is. No doubt about it. I made sure I kept that on the show. I hope that people watched it. So we're running out of time a little bit. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about that we didn't touch on? I really would just encourage employers to reach out and to ask the questions and there is no wrong question. We are open and willing to hear any concern or field any interest. And I think in this labor market, people need to be as creative as they can to find good employees. And that is what we are offering, the opportunity to enhance their workforce and their work culture and to bring on some really qualified, wonderful people. And I think it's important for them to know you don't just make the connection and leave. You're there to help them and the employee whenever, right? Absolutely. For ever, ever. Absolutely, as long as either of them or both of them want us. That's great. Well, it was a pleasure meeting you. Same. Thank you and you are welcome back anytime. Okay, great. So listen, thanks for tuning in. I know you enjoy this program. We'll see you next week. And in the meantime, keep listening beyond the sound bites.