 A very good Monday morning to you. You are watching Y254, your favorite breakfast show Y in the morning. And it's about time we delve into youth and politics. And with us in studio, we have very able ladies and gentlemen here. In fact, it has just come to my attention that we have balanced it out very well. So make sure you do talk to us on social media. Y254 channel on Twitter. The hashtag is Y in the morning. Hashtag youth and politics, if you'd like to be more specific. On Facebook, we're at Y254. On Instagram, Y254 underscore channel. On DSTV, we're channel 376. So make sure you do catch up with us. But it's about time I introduce the people with me in studio. We have Shimio as Santisana from Bracing Us Today. Thank you. Say good morning to Kenya. Oh, good morning Kenya. My name is Hon. Philip Nzangi, MC for Makima Ward in Ember County. Yes, I'm delighted to be in the show today. We are delighted to have you as well. So can we talk to the ladies and gentlemen on this side of town? Introduce yourselves and make sure you let us know where you guys are coming from. I'm Osano from the University of Nairobi. Good morning. My name is Aizaka K. I'm a journalist. I'm Dizio Anjiro, Student University of Nairobi. I'm Machanga from Peterson, YGIK, Ember County. Good morning. I'm Esther Maina from the University of Nairobi, Gender Affairs Secretary. Good morning. I'm Mwangangi Wanza Ancelene. I'm from the University of Nairobi, Vice Chairperson Women's Student Sofya Association. Fantastic. Thank you guys so much for also gracing us with your presence today. And today we want to talk about the cost of corruption in this country. But it's about time we get to know. There's been this myth that politicians just get elected and then they go and use that money to get re-elected and steal something. So can we hear from you, Meshmiwa? How have you been dealing with this particular battle where you guys have been put on the spotlight? Well, it's true. Like you called it rightly, it's a myth. Yet there's some truth in it. Because again, it also depends on a few things. A politician will grow from his own personality. Before he become a politician, he was a human being. It also depends on where, from what environment you grew up in. And at the same time, what is it that you believe in? It is true. All of us put together politicians that seem like ok fine. You go there for money and then you use the same money to get back votes. It's a cutter that used not to be there. It was brought in at some point by some politicians. Of course you know about the economics of the gift. So that you owe people to give you votes and then you enrich yourself, you use the same money to... So at the end of the day, like you're asking is how do we deal with it? Yes. It's a complex matter. Because again, the community itself contributes to the same. I'll give an example of myself as an MCA, member of County Assembly. You know our roles very clearly. And you know that members of County Assembly do not even have any money set aside in their offices to serve the people. But you see the needs in the society and you're there every day, day in, day out, and people are coming to you for help or you know for such kind of things. And they believe that all the money now that you're elected is with you. So at the end of the day, on the way, you get some temptations. But it's a difficult balancing act. I like the fact that you've mentioned that MCA is not getting enough to do something. Can we talk to the young people? Do you believe that they're telling us the truth? Can you tell us the cost of corruption for you? Thank you so much. My name is... Once again, my name is Mungangi Wanzah Angelin. And then about the myth, I don't think it's a myth. There is so much truth. It's true? Yeah, it is true. Most of our politicians are very corrupt and their reasons to why poverty is killing us in Kenya. I think we're fighting corruption at the same time we want to fight corrupt leaders. It's a way too long to go. Okay. Okay, I feel it's a... Okay, it has some truth and also some hypothesis, which is not tested. But I feel we need to talk like we get educated about these things and at least when we have the knowledge, we'll have a way to eradicate these things about corruption because so far it's too rampant for that, yes. You see, when we say it's a myth, yeah, okay, it's a myth like 10% myth and 90% truth. Because if you ask any young... 90% truth? Yeah, because if you ask any young man, any young youth in any community, they want to become a politician. Why? Everybody becomes a politician, becomes so rich all of a sudden. So everybody wants to become so rich. So politics looks like they're home of wealth in the country. It's where people become rich. So it's so much truth because if you can easily prove, if the honorable member can tell you the truth, most of them gets into their country assemblies or the parliament or anywhere in the public service and they become so rich all of a sudden. Like in two years, they are booming money. It's so much truth. It's not a myth. A myth is just a myth. It's not a myth. Yeah. Thank you. My opinion on that would be it's true. It's true. It's true. Because if you go to the Masinani and listen to that needy woman during elections time, they'll tell you, in Kiswahili, they'll tell you, what you have to pay who you are in Karibu, do you at least have to do that? Another person will tell you, what you have to pay who you are, do you at least have to do that? So that is what Kenyans believe. Believe that once you get to politics, you automatically become rich. Because that is what they've portrayed. Because there is no way a mentality or a thought can just come out of nowhere. It has to be triggered by something. Actions are there. This is what people are doing. This is what the politicians are doing. Yes. And it is not even international politics. Get even to the universities. That is what people are doing. Yes. Even in the colleges. Like now it's election periods for almost many universities. Many universities are having the elections right now. That is the same mentality. Like people just want to get into those leadership positions for power, fame and money. And money being the great part of it. I think I'm liking what they're saying. And like I said, it's partly true. And it's true that many politicians have introduced themselves. But I'd like to challenge them. At least this is the second round of having the county governments. I'd like to challenge them and by accident it happened that many of the members of county assemblies did not go back. They were not re-elected. And now if you look now at their lifestyles today after politics, you realize that they really did not make that much money that was said. You realize some of them have already gone back. One, somebody got a salary because of the many demands, especially for those who got into politics and they want really to serve the people. And every day as a member of county assembly you receive many people coming with needs. And as a human being you listen. So at the end of the day because you do not have any other money set aside for you, you end up spending even your salary and everything else. But now, come election time. The community, I like it, somebody put it very well. That we have a belief that when you get to politics, that is where money is. So, you know, somebody comes, you give all and then you are not re-elected. Today you in poverty. So if you are not careful as a member of county assembly, it is even very possible that after politics you become poorer than you got in. Now the difference is we have had a different kind of culture before when we did not have the two county, the county government and the national government, the two tire kind of governments in Kenya. The most challenged politician today is a member of county assembly. I may not say as much for the member of parliament who now with the coming of the county government, kind of people have forgotten that this person has also responsibility to do. I am not challenging the MPs but the truth is many of the members of county assembly have a challenge when it comes to managing their own income and the needs in the society. We have been talking about the need for these positions for a minute now. And there's been all the stalker, even of the referendum and all the positions that need to be removed and stuff. And we just wanted to know from you, do you believe that you're seat and you've also said that you're kind of struggling? Do you believe that it should exist, we should have MCAs? Actually, to be honest, the member of county assembly is the most important position in the whole hierarchy of elective positions. Do you think so? Let's hear from one, let's hear from somebody in the audience. To add on that, I would like to say that MCAs, they are where Wajiko can get in touch with the readers. Because in most of the cases, you mean that if it is a member of parliament, for you to get him, it will take you to go through, even through the PA, for you to get assistant. But when you come to MCAs, you just go to his house very early in the morning and you tell what you need. So I think in the hierarchy. We need it. We need them. It's only that what's happened, when they are given those positions, they never utilize the sources that are given by the county government and the national government in a better way. You meet if they are given a road to do. They don't do it the way it is supposed to do. The qualities of the materials so that they can have some money in return to go to the pocket. But I say the position is very important. Yes, I would like to respond to that one very quickly. One I applaud that he really supports that we are actually necessary. But there's a point of correction in that the member of county assembly does not implement at any point projects. You only left to oversight. The work of implementation is purely 100% left to the governor and the executive. Now where now the misconception comes in is because you are the local leader at the grass root. And it is you people see. It is you people interact with and they expect you to bring all these developments. The work of the MC stops at during budget making trying to lobby and push that projects in your world are put in the budget. After that 100% implementation is the governor. We only left now to oversee, oversight what has been done. At some point if there is collusion or conspiracy between now the executive and the contractor doing that job. Now the process of this road was done poorly and they got everything now begins again. Which again legally is another procedure to be done. But I want to tell our young people and the nation that there is one role that the community can assist the members of county assembly in. The moment the contractor touches ground the community within the area that project is being done should now be alert and inform their member of county assembly of anything that they sense could be wrong. So that together we work together. Because at the end of the day you in the assembly, you elsewhere and you also need somebody on the ground to help you see what is going wrong. That is the only way now we can actually capture this thing. Okay I may not deny that there could be issues at some point where now a member of county assembly because of the oversight role can be compromised. No these are realities. Somebody can be compromised so that the oversight role is compromised so that now when the quality of work is poor nobody is there to ask. That can happen. But now the community can gap, can feel that gap by now being very alert and charging where necessary. Can we have someone else charging from here? You know the honourable member is saying about oversight. So I'm wondering do all the county assembly in this country do nothing about oversight? Because it's a one which is being used by most oversight bodies which is they don't do it. Like literally they don't do it. Because if you are doing the oversight you did the budgeting. You are the one who plays this given project on go during the budgeting process in the county assembly. But when the government is now implementing the project you should also do the oversight. Then what happens that the project does not happen? You budget for this project they never happen and then you are responsible for oversight and you are doing nothing. We need to see the feedback because the man we sent everybody would have gone to the parliament because you are there for the people, by the people. So we need to see the oversight role be happening because there is nobody doing oversight here. Everybody is doing their game, playing their game. Do you want to respond? Yes, actually I'm very happy that he's put that way. But I think he's also shooting himself below the foot. Because at the end of the day somebody is implementing. There is difference between oversight and supervision. If I go to supervise the person doing the work or be doing the work of the governor and his team. You get it? But now my oversight role comes when, like what I said, somebody has touched ground, has started doing some project. The people that are receiving this service have already noticed something wrong. Now, shout. When you shout, because I'm expecting like I have 20, 30 projects ongoing in my work at the same time. You get it? Now the community that are receiving this and I think that is now the spirit of the new constitution. That now power comes from the people. They need to shout. It is your work. It is you people that are being served. You don't need to keep quiet and wait for your MCE to come and see that. You get it? Shout. Now let's see what now you remember. Because now at that point it becomes an individual member. Let's see what that person does at that point. Because somebody has seen something wrong, has made some noise. Let's see now what happens. What to do next? There's been a clash between county governments and the national government. And apparently this has been causing the issue even in terms of implementation of projects. Can we discuss this a little further? Is it, did devolution come and cause problems or did it come and do some justice? One thing I'll say is devolution was the best thing that happened to this country. And we can see results. There are some areas in this country that I've never seen Tamak. There are some areas in this country that I've never seen water. There are some areas in this country that I've never seen service. They have never known that they're in government. But because of devolution, however much corruption might have been devolved. Because it is reality. Corruption is all over. Both in county governments and national government. That one I can attest. It is true. Corruption is there. And you know it is again a communal thing that we must fight together. But we can already see things that used to happen. Happening in some areas that were completely marginalised. Now the clash between the national government and the county government. Change is not easy. There are people who don't believe in change. There are people who don't like change. We know there are some particular persons or entities in the national government who feel like now our role. They still feel superior. They feel these things should not have happened. So it is until such a time that we will grow with it and everybody will come to accept that devolution was the best thing that happened in Kenya. And things will change. And the change is not easy. Change is not easy and devolution is the best thing that happened in Kenya. Do you guys agree? Can we have somebody say something? We have been trying to reach you. Thank you so much. On development, I wanted to ask Meshime what is something. Your work is to do oversight. To make sure that money meant for development is used for development. But how come, I am a journalist and some of the stories that we cover include stories where M.C.A.s are forcing governors to give a lot of money for them to go to some nice hotels and bonds. And if the governor tells you to go and bond with your wife and children in the house, you tell the governor that we are impeaching you. What is your take on that? Is that the good thing to do? Because some ask up to even 500 million or even 400 that they are going to bond either within the country or outside. And you find that some of those money are supposed to be used for development. So how are you going to even oversight yourself when you demand such a lot of money that should be used in development? Thank you. Hilda, I think that was a question that was very necessary. But I want to demystify a few things. It is very easy for us to get into political traps. Don't forget that governors are politicians. M.C.A.s are politicians. The governors have their own weakness and they have what they want to do and some things may not be right. And for them to cover up, they have to look for a way that will help other people hit back on the M.C.A.s. And that is the best route. How many governors are going abroad? Are we seeing the results from there going abroad? You get it. At that point that we realize that the county assembly has got its own budget. You get it. And the county executive has got its own budget for the current and development. And then demystify the link between them. Because the county assembly, the M.C.A.s will not go to the governor to ask for money to go to our town when they already have a budget that can allow them to do that. But since the governor has the treasury and everything else and we want to create a political scenario that will protect him from some issues that are happening at his backyard, then he will use it to hit back on the people that oversight him. So at the end of the day, it is the story of politics and people trying to cover their faces. Yes. Honorable member, I feel like to reply on that, you're speaking like what people at the corruption speak in this country. They're throwing back the button to the other person and then the other person throws it back to the other person. I don't want to go there. You have to forgive me on this point. The point is, if there is a responsibility given by the people, we expect you to do the responsibility to the letter. We don't want you to politic in that period when we are giving you the responsibility. We want you to now take the responsibility to do it for the people. For example, the way you were just saying that we the people, we should look at what projects are going on in the county and then make the noise. The members of the county assembly or any elected member is waiting until the people make the noise for them to act. You know, it's so painful. The news which are going on right now is about people in Tokanga. They are members of county assembly in that area. Who went on for budgeting? Who is governing that county? No, you see. But people are dying of hunger. So that doesn't mean that there is no prioritization in this county. The county assembly do not prioritize on what projects should be done in a given area because I think it's important that we have a lot of problems that face people immediately so that the national government can handle other issues which are long-term. You see, at the end of the day, for example, M county, your county, your county. I know that place for a while. For example, the road from it's called to Makema town, the Makema town center has not been termed for seven years under the government. That should be a bit of a priority because that area requires a termed road because it's an economic zone for your county. Do you have any prioritization in the county government during the budgeting time because that is where the problem starts? I will start from where he mentioned Makema road. That is not where I belong. I would respond to any question that comes from. Yes, I know. Now, the road you're talking about is not even a county road. Remember, roads are also classified. And we have roads that are meant for the county government. We have roads that are meant for Kera. We have roads that are meant for even national highways or whatever authority and we have roads that are meant for Kura. Now, the road you're talking about belongs to the national government through Kera. It's a road that we have even in the previous government that that road has actually been funded. Gashu Riri, I'm hearing that is the name of that road. Gashu Riri is in a different world. The road you're talking about has been funded, has been put in a budget for the last not even seven years, I think, in the last government. But everybody is asking the same question. I believe the member of national assembly for Kera is listening to this because that would be his priority. That would be his responsibility to follow up. We've even talked about it even when the deputy president visited and everything else. Because again, work of implementation belongs to the executive. As we will receive the budget, look at it, approve it when the executive is promised and convinced to collect this revenue and be able to put this money into this use. But then, at the end of the day, they will tell you there was shortfall in revenue and several other stories. And then we start now. Now, from the point of, if you allow me where you said that we wait until people make noise for us to act. There is the people and you people must also accept that you have a role to keep your leaders on check. You get it? Like today, I'm in this program. After this, I'm going to another one. There could be some program that is happening on the ground. You get it? I have only three officers in my office who can also be everywhere. But then a certain contractor messes up on the ground. Somebody there must make some noise and then I pick it up from there. Instead of waiting until when the project is complete and you start now blaming your leader. You have to work together. At that point, this nation will grow. Speaking of which, there is a question that's coming in. The people in Makima would Moialand scheme haven't received their title deeds. Is it a matter of corruption and what is happening? Well, Hilda, I expected that question. And actually if I was not to respond to that question I would not feel complete. I would not have been in the show. I would not have fought. Somebody will ask, will tell you that it is me who has denied the title deeds. Another person will tell you Moshmiwa has fought for us. It was a complete occupying. The interior government through Dr Matiangi stopped the whole exercise. A lot of fraud happened. A lot of things happened that amount to corruption. People give money and everything else. But 95% of the people living on that land who are denied title deeds don't want to learn that there are title deeds that are happening where now they wanted to they were issuing the title deeds. And everything happened until some nine people were shot by the police. It was complete impunity. How do you have a deputy county commissioner leading a team of policemen to shoot at people and then you just say things were right? So the issue is the title deeds in my position whatever happened is a complete fraud. It should just be nullified and then a new process starts. And then the government must not only stop at that they must investigate the whole exercise the whole process if Philip as a member of county assembly although it happened before I was elected if I was involved in any issue that led to this fraud that actually spent a lot of money and led to loss of life then let law now take its course. Because it not just stop at that. Whether I'm clear but if another question comes I'm ready to respond but it was a complete fraud. Yes. Can I talk to the young people here just for one minute. When it comes to representation of you guys when it comes to your political seats and all that do you feel like the young leaders represent you well? Because we recently had a scenario where the president felt that the young people will just come and make this whole corruption thing so much worse. Are the young leaders representing you well? I think that one is a very good question about the young leaders. But let me say the real politician. Whenever you say that these are young these are young young leader when he go to the parliament or when he go to the county assembly he become the politician. And whenever you see what he is trying to do he is always trying his level best to make sure the board does not fall on his side. And he makes sure that he is green and the others are not the one. Because as a leader he is supposed to take responsibility and say maybe here I have failed and I agree on that. And then you wake up and then you look for a solution. The issue of the load where he is supposed to be the oversight. How come do you he is given the responsibility by the county government to be the oversight and the one who is supposed to look whether everything is running but because what they do they make sure they push the contractor that they want to work with them they are given the brown envelope. You see then how can you have a brown envelope. Again on the issue I want to ask the we have the nominated MCAs do they have offices? What is the possibility? Do they have the budget? What is the work in the county government? Because if you want to see a nominated MCA you don't know whether you have the office and he doesn't have the office but what is his work come up very clear so that you can understand the role of nominated leaders. Can we also hear from the lady because it's about time we wind up so I want you guys to ask all your questions so that we can respond to them together. Myself responding to that issue of representation I would think they may be trying Kenya and it has many barriers they may be trying but they are still not doing it because I would expect when you are youth and you know that the youth make up almost 70% population of this nation you should be trying to pull up other youths into this representation into these places because all the time we say the youth don't cut the cake they don't get the piece they don't even get the dropping pieces on the ground even the crumbs they don't get anything and to give an example I would really desire as a youth in that position let's stop aiming so high let's start at the grass root I would be very proud of a place for example in the place that you come from Makima Makima so I would love youths to have to be represented everywhere even in a board of governors in the schools because I really don't relate why in those boards we have guys as old as 55, 65 I wish there would be at least two youths there because they are the people who relate most to what these kids are experiencing it's them who have been there most recently but not having 55 or 65 because another myth that is in this country when you talk about representation we only think of the national government having people in parliament but even in those groups even in those youth institutions that you have at home like the people the likes of our fathers managing those things okay please we gotta do a bit faster I think if you want to talk about corruption corruption starts with you as an individual thank you we shouldn't put much emphasis and much negativity in our leader's side at a CC we always corruption just starts with you as long as you are a member of the country you should start stopping corruption from you yourself giving bribes and so corruption starts with you as an individual okay thank you very much for that comment can we have from the lady in front of you okay the same way Daisy has said youths are about 70% in this population but when it comes to representation yes we are represented but not that not exactly like we feel we are fully represented so it is 70% it means we are the majority of course we can be represented fully but I have a feeling like