 So, at this point, I'll invite Nicholas for a few minutes to deal with the mentee in the meantime. The presenters, please get ready for the panel discussion. It's going to be exciting. So you will get pinned on the screen, but before that, Nicholas, you are welcome for the mentee so that we prepare for the panel discussion. So over to you. Thank you very much Wellington for running the session and also for our speakers for today's session. So many surprises, especially for non-scientists would say. Great. Now, we are going to hear from you and how your thoughts are evolving based on attending this conference. And we'd love to know your thoughts, especially on how, based on what has been shared today, how can we bring down the silos? Because this is normally what normally comes up when discussing one health. How can we bring down the silos, cooperate more, collaborate more? So and the mentee code remains the same. Let's hear. Yep. Before saying engage more, we change the mindset and we communicate better. Joint activities, teamwork, we deliberately engage, yeah, with these conflicts among the, among the disciplines, we collaborate more. So let's see how far we are doing. And having 20, 20 responses. But the message across Wellington is that people asking for more collaboration, more engagement among the various disciplines. So I think the message is coming across. So maybe from there, I'll hand it over to you for panel discussion, then we can hear more questions. Thank you. Thanks very much. Let me welcome our presenters for this afternoon for a panel discussion and from the program, as you can see, we want to dive deep into strategies for developing, implementing and sustaining one health education in our higher learning institutions. I don't know whether we're able to see our panelists, you are five, I think. Yes. So let me welcome you on board and let me thank you for the exciting and thought provoking presentations that you have just made. This is highly appreciated on behalf of all participants. So we now have an opportunity to engage you or for you to explain further and dive deeper into the discussions, engage through this panel discussion. Let me just quickly explain how it's structured so that I don't get you by surprise. So we'll start off by setting the scene by a bit of what I call cross fertilization of ideas and perspectives, and just giving you an opportunity to give a comment or add a point to someone else's presentation for clarity, and that should take a very short time. And then we will go to specific questions. I have some specific questions, which I'll be asking you to comment on or to give some perspectives on. And then of course we'll go to a wrap up and in the wrap up, I will be asking you to give us your take home message. What is your take home message and who should be listening to that message? So I think that gives you a bit of what to expect. So let's start it off. Let's cross fertilize our ideas. I want to invite any of you in any order to take half a minute just to comment or give an additional perspective to any of the presentations that your colleagues gave. I don't know that you'd like me to mention names, but if you are really just unmute and go ahead. My name is Mabel. I just wanted to add to the presentations that have been made that one thing for us to really sustain collaborations around One Health, we have to take on board the fact that it's not a short term or a bullet magic that we are aiming for to build trust and across the partners or amongst partners across various sectors and to meaningfully engage takes time. So my point is that it is we are in it for the long haul and we should expect that this will be also an expensive undertaking that it's not cheap to find the opportunities to break the silos and persistence will also help at least nature that that team spirit to break down the silos that we tend to experience over time. The undoing is that at times we give it a try and then we say it's not working. We are too quick to to give up. So that's my perspective. Thank you. Yes, so it doesn't come easy takes time needs patience and persistence and sometimes you have to put in a lot of your personal energy and a lot of focus. So it's not that easy. Cool. Anyone else? I can go next. Thank you. Half a minute. Half a minute. Very quickly. Thank you. So cats are notoriously independent animals. But somebody once said if you want to herd cats, you have to move the food. And I think the collaboration that we seek requires that we reward collaborations instead of independent performance. This has to change in academic departments and schools. We have veterinary medicine and even medicine and environmental science and the social sciences are rewarded for performing within their disciplines. It's very difficult to judge collaboration across disciplines, but we have to recognize that as a one health imperative and do it not just for faculty but in service professionals and not sure that in our students. Thank you. OK, so some new homework, new ways of doing things, new ways of looking at systems and new ways of looking at performance and all that within our institutions. All right. Good. Yes, Margaret. Thank you. Just a very quick one to add on that, you know, the longest journey starts with a step and the step that we have to start making is in our institutions because this is where we have the young people, we have very large groups of students and we can change culture and practice when they are coming into the university. So if we can have, we can purpose to have a day where the disciplines, you know, the health sciences meet up with the agricultural scientists, the agricultural scientists meet up with the School of Journalism because we have seen that even within the universities, we have talent in who can help us in communication that we never meet. So if we can help us to do that so that two or three disciplines get a day where they meet up and trash out some of the issues, especially in one health, I think that that will make a big difference. And within the four or five years when these students are in the universities and beyond, then they'll have started bonding together and then they go out now to various institutions, then they already have that culture, they already have that collaborative spirit. Thank you. Yeah, it's very true and I remember in one of the workshops we had some time back with students and scientists and lecturers, the students actually were asking in this conference or in this workshop, how come we don't have people from discipline, eggs and faculties and that and yet you are telling us we are supposed to, you know, to act in this way. So it's a challenge. We talk about these things, but then we have to reflect back and see exactly how we do it, where we start and where we have to end. OK, very well put. So moving on, let's move to the individual questions. So yesterday, I think one of the issues that came up, somebody said that they took a course in designing interdisciplinary research and they think that that was more useful or more helpful in thinking about one health than a second course that was actually about one health. All right. So I wonder, Prof Nangami, what would be your gut feeling about this? How would you respond to this? What do you think about this? That actually taking a course in designing interdisciplinary research, somebody say that they found that more useful than an individual course about one health. Thank you very much. Sorry, I although I didn't attend yesterday's, but I can appropriate respond to this question. It's true when you think of one health, it is an approach. It's not a discipline. So at times we tend to put a lot of emphasis on designing separate courses that and even at university are challenged whether this has enough theory need to stand alone as a course. So to me, that question directs our attention to always think that one remember that one health is an approach and this approach can best be demonstrated through the practice and part of the practice in academia is the research that we are trying to at least grow as an area. So that we, you know, nurture the other aspects or principles of multidisciplinary, interdisciplinary, the interconnectedness that we desire to see. So yes, it is true, but learning the approach alone without the theoretical background can also create another gap in terms of comprehension and application of the knowledge. So I would say that going forward, we need to balance depending on your background. We need to balance the two. So if you are from a social background and you've not engaged in any of the science fields, there is a strong recommendation that you need the theoretical foundations in some of those areas, not the technical aspects, but just for understanding to be able to meaningfully apply. But also if you are you are well versed in in some of the areas depending on your earlier degree, then that application through research is worth it in terms of then focusing on another theoretical course that would bring you the foundations of either microbiology or whatever it is that may be necessary. Thank you. Thanks, Professor Ola Dele. I think you presented a very comprehensive approach highlighting some of the things you are doing within your program. I wonder, putting all that into perspective, what would be your response to this or your comment on that particular observation by the participant yesterday? Half a minute, please. Thank you. I think when we speak about an approach that needs to be demonstrated, the importance of one health is to prepare us effectively and we can't wait till an emergency situation happens for people to figure out how to communicate, for example, or how to talk to surveillance teams in animal sector or human sector or environmental sector. So it is an approach, but it still needs that competency to be acquired and verified and delivered on demand. And that's why the education is so important in addition to the technical skills, of course. Thank you. OK, thanks very much. Moving on, let me turn to Dr. Abum, right, what we have been listening to and all these good perspectives and successes, lessons, land, what we are doing, what we are planning, one would ask, is one health marketable? Is one health marketable? And how can we foresight its value and embed findings in the curricula? So thank you very much for that. I'd like to say one health is marketable. If you look at the various areas in one health that need to be to be tackled, it's not just one health, it's also one health marketable. So one health marketable is one health marketable is one health marketable. Need to be need to be to be tackled. Then we'd see that it's a very wide concept. And from the different engagements we've had with stakeholders, including needs assessment, we find that many people really want to undertake this program. And I think that was part of the justification for development of the curriculum in infectious disease and global health. So the market survey shows that there are multiple people who want to undertake the course and therefore multiple disciplines. And it is for that reason why when we are developing the curriculum, which we, which we spoke about earlier in the presentations by Professor Mabel and I, you find that it's a curriculum that's open to all professions so that we can have the multidisciplinary groups of people trained in one health principles. And that we can also have an opportunity to develop workforce that are ready to respond to one health challenges. If the second question is about foresight in its value, I think it's important that we look at it in terms of, as I said, again, workforce, how much workforce do you require to respond to these emerging threats, not just infectious disease, but also climate change and several other factors. So it is a discipline that definitely needs to be enhanced. But then we also need to be careful not to have a program that creates generalists, if I can use that term, or one that can create opportunity for quarks to join certain professions. But it's something that when we engage with the regulatory authorities, then we're able to curtail that and prevent that from occurring. So that's what I'd say. Thank you. All right. So I think you answer you mentioned a number of things. Which, to me, give me a bit of thin lines between a number of perspectives or a number of issues, regulatory authorities and generalities and that kind of thing. So it makes me wonder, so how is this structured? How is the one health training structured? What is it targeting or who is it targeting? And how do you define marketability? Just wondering in my, how do you define that? Any of the panelists can also jump in just for sake of clarity. Yes, that's an interesting question because I'm not an expert in marketing. So I'd like to throw marketability to the rest of my panelists. But as you say, the value of having the regulatory bodies on board whenever you're developing any curricula is that it enables it to be to have a robust control mechanism. For the students who are actually undertaking the course and it also helps to improve marketability because they know, for instance, I think we're having a situation currently between the TSC and the graduate teachers. So the TSC, I assume, is a regulatory authority and we have the graduate teachers and they're having these issues when it comes to promotions. And if you have regulatory authorities on board during the curriculum development process, you find that whoever is graduating from the course, for instance, if he's registered by the veterinary board, by the medical and dentist practitioners board, they're already it's a degree program that is acceptable to them. So when this person graduates, he has opportunities for career development within his profession and that definitely enhances the marketability. And for us, we look at it in terms of workforce that is available to respond because if you have workforce who are available, but they're not marketable in their profession, very few people would want to join that actual course. So it's a win-win for us. Thank you. So marketability, I'll throw it to the rest of the panelists. OK, I'm sure the one or two panelists are thinking about that. But in the meantime, Caroline, given the path you have walked, do you have do you have a comment that is itching in that perspective that you would like to contribute at this moment? Less than a minute. Thank you. I think in my case, I would I would just put forward or recommends engagement of alumni from the one held workforce trainings, pre-workforce trainings. And I think there's a wealth of of potentially can tap into using them as one held ambassadors and also to mainstream one held, which will benefit very many sectors at all levels and also motivates the environment professions more into one held. Thank you. OK. So over to the other panels, the issue of marketability. Anybody with would like to give Yeah, I can jump in quickly. Yes. Thank you. So I did put a link to the chat for a stakeholder survey for the one health workforce academy that we are conducting. We've had hundreds of responses so far, but everybody is welcome to share their point. And we have questions about this marketability. One health has to add value to employers. The question is, why would I as a minister of health or nonprofit organization charge with protecting public health and global health security? Why would I want somebody who's trained in one health than simply hiring public health masters in public health or a physician or vet or social scientists? I think, you know, the employers have to show us, the trainers, that they need people who are ready to hit the ground running without additional training when we have spillover events. And it's not easy to do that in a single discipline. So having the experience of walking together, learning the skills of collaboration and partnerships and communication and the kind of transdisciplinary surveillance research is not something, as I previously mentioned, that you learn very quickly at the time of crisis. So I think that when we have a lot of trained one health graduates in employment and the employers reward them and put them in positions of authority and decision making, then we would have succeeded in demonstrating the marketability of one health. Our survey results so far show that employers want this kind of training, but they are not yet sure how to reward those who are trained beyond those who are independent, you know, more independently trained in single disciplines. So we need to match the training with the reward system at the employment sector. Thank you. OK, thank you very much. Fair enough, quite complex. And it's good you shared the link with some of the studies that you have conducted and the findings that you have so far that will be useful to our participants. Now, turning over to Margaret, and this is something you have been talking about for a while. Now, looking at one health and what we are discussing since yesterday, one would ask or one would wonder how easy is it for institutional structures, frameworks and policies to embrace these nice requirements for one health education and practice? How practical? How easy is it? What is your experience in this? Thank you. I would say that it is not that easy because we have this very strong, strongly held beliefs and mindsets. Everybody is sticking to their own territory. And so anytime you try to encroach, you know, people feel like you're encroaching into somebody else's territory. And so one of the things that we also need to really equip those who are getting into implementation of one health is on its soft skills, you know, soft skills of negotiating, conflict management, just managing expectations. Because once you get into the system and you challenge the status quo, then people all of a sudden become very hostile to you. So I would say we need those skills so that we can be able to manage some of these conflicts that are going to happen when you get to talk to a policymaker in health and why he should allocate a budget, not just to the human health component, but also to share that budget with somebody from the environmental field, because then it means you are reaching or you are arriving at one goal of ensuring one health. All right. What about Dr. Raboum? You talked about your program and the nice work that you are doing, all these good proposals. How easy was it or difficult was it to deal with the policy side of things, different faculties and the people in their institutional policies? How easy was it or how difficult was it and what do you do? Oh, thank you very much. This is something we did in conjunction. I can see Professor Nangami on the other side. But as you're saying, it wasn't easy trying to work with the many professions who are involved in one health. And first of all, there are issues of funding and we were lucky to get support from a partner who was able to to fund the whole exercise. We also got expertise from our partner universities. Most of them are from the US and this definitely helps to to ease in the burden of developing the program. We also had to look at our institutions because as we keep saying, we all have our mindsets and trying to change certain, I don't know what time to use certain entrenched principles trying to to tell, for instance, someone who's been working in microbiology for many years of public health that is soon going to to get graduates from from journalism, for instance, it's not easy. So trying to change up mindset was definitely a challenge, but we are lucky that through several workshops and engagements we had with faculty, as well as with various partners, we were able to to convince them that this is the way to go. The world is changing. The term health professional is a term that is quite fluid and we need to accept that, for instance, someone who is a specialist in health economics is also a health professional. So we really need to change our mindsets, change the way we think. Someone had asked a question whereby he had mentioned that are we breaking silos or building bridges? We need to actually find ways of linking the silos or breaking them, as you always say, because it is these silos that lead to these emergence of these one health challenges because we can no longer rely on one profession to protect the whole world from challenge X or challenge Y. We need to adopt these multidisciplinary approaches and therefore we need to have multidisciplinary one health specialists out there who are ready to work together and manage these complex challenges that we have out there. Probably I'd ask Professor Nangami to add a few more comments on this because we're working on this together with her. Yeah, in one minute. Thank you, chair. Thank you, Abou. Yes, getting into the policy space is a very tricky issue. It touches matters of governance and effective leadership to be able to navigate this change that we are seeking within institutions but also beyond that the policy network within the government level. So yes, it's true that within more university, for example, any other university, one thing that we don't have is adequate policies to address some of these needs that we are more discussing and I would give an example. For example, when you hire a lecturer in a university, you are expected to demonstrate your own professional competences. If you are medical doctor, they expect that you'll be working in a clinic as well as teaching the students. If you are sociologists, you'd expect to be publishing in a journal of sociology and not all these criss-cutting, cross-cutting multidisciplinary and so on. If you rise the career ladder to be a professor, you are expected again to profess in your own discipline. So until we have policies that properly recognize that multidisciplinary approach, give it its importance and place within universities, it will still continue to challenge us. The other aspect about university policies or institutional policies is the admission aspect. We struggled with this, but luckily in Kenya, we have the Kenya University Placement Board. So once you specify the minimum requirements within a curriculum, that is feasible. But again, it speaks to how you have a not somebody with an arts background going to do a science based program and so on. So it's the issue of both mindset at individual level, but also the policies support the governance that will then lead to a location of adequate resources to be able to effectively address this. We need to probably lobby. Lobbying is one thing that we need to and you can't lobby empty handed. We need evidence where we have proven that one health works to market to our policy makers, decision makers to be able to affect this change. Thank you. OK, thank you very much. Quite some homework to accomplish before we can make great lips in terms of process. So moving away from that and not to ambush the director of vet services in Narok, who is my friend. I talked to him yesterday. I would like to request you listening to all this as a government official, somebody who receives these graduates and somebody who manages lots of structures and policies downstream. What is your comment? What is your gut feeling about this discussion about one health education and how to get those competent graduates coming on your side and how do they fit in? Is there do you have a comment on this or some advice? Yeah, thank you. Yeah, I feel I personally feel that these are very, very critical aspect and approach to health delivery. That's why I am really here for all the three days so I can listen in and get the most that I can from the presenters and all the members present. So. It is actually very critical that we have trainees and graduates getting this one health approach in their in their learning and even have some aspect of actual implementation. So I think it is very important that we bring in the end, we have to bring everybody to the same understanding in all the disciplines that are concerned. So that we can begin the journey together. And we actually on the ground feel that there's some there's some resistance from certain aspects and it's just about attitudes. So we would in the end have to change these attitudes beginning from our trainees and and although we say that it's not easy to teach and all the new tricks, but we may try and see how far we can go. It is it is very, very critical. We have these experiences in various aspects, obviously very easily in the area of zoonotic diseases, but we have the same experiences in food safety. So we have this feeling that there are some gaps that can only be filled if we are working together and working together. Thank you. OK, thank you very much. But just a quick follow up from your side of the story or from your side of the experience, looking at institutional aspects, structures and policies. How is it how is it to absorb this the people we train when they come as people who are in one health? In one minute. Definitely in the government system, once you have approved trainings, they are equally developed schemes of service for such trainees. So definitely as a curricula developed, there must be a sensitization in government that these people that have this shared knowledge and we need to develop new schemes because it is these schemes that separate the various careers in government. And the ones that build the walls in service delivery or in working together to deliver services. So if we work together right from the development of curricula to development of schemes, then it will be seamless when sending these people to the public service. OK, thanks very much for coming in very quickly to give those perspectives. Almost the last question as we draw towards your up up panelists, so very quickly, I would like each one of you just to highlight two key skills you think are very necessary for us to grow in our next generation, one health workforce. What are those two key skills that you feel are really critical? Let's start with Professor Ola Dele. What are those two key skills that you think they are very critical? Yeah, thank you. I put in the chat one of the outcomes of our international DEFY panel on one health competencies, one that came out strongly is implementation science and the second is translational science. These are terms that are used primarily in the health sciences to show that scientific knowledge that's published in the journals are not the end of the story. We need to make them into solutions that are sustainable. So implementation science really affects how we make knowledge relevant to local situations, something that works in the United States may not work in Nairobi, Kenya, and we need to be able to recognize the social aspects of one health and its role in implementation. All of the topics on gender context and cultural context, relationships between humans and animals and the environment are very local. And so that has to be part of the one health implementation science. And the translation about, for example, antimicrobial resistance, knowing that the exist is not the same as preventing the transmission of resistant infections, we need to be able to do that at the population level. So those, I think, are key that have not really been part of the discussion on competencies, but they're critical. Thank you. Great, Margaret. Sorry, my network. Yeah, so from where I stand, I see we need very strong science communication skills because they help us really engage and reach to the hearts and minds of the different actors, the policymakers, the people at the bottom, the people at the top. And so if you are able to do that, science communication is one of the sub skills that we must build along the way. The second, of course, is that of partnership building. I think if you're able to accommodate, to be more accommodative by just learning how best human relationships work, then it will be so much easier for us to get these disciplines working together and the same case with the people working together, because at the end of it is the people, is the people skills that will really build this one health culture. Thank you. Thank you very much. Yes, thank you very much. I think I'd like to agree with Margaret that communication skills key to the development of One Health, as well as how we develop partnerships. And I also like to think we need to find ways of how to influence policy, how to take that research from the publication to implementation at the level of the Mamamboga. So how do we do that? How do we influence policy? So it's something that I think is very key, but we need to find ways of enhancing this competency amongst the different players in One Health. Thank you very much. Good. Caroline, you are in a unique position forward looking. What do you have to say? I also agree that science communication is a key competency and also collaboration. Yeah. OK. Last but not least, Mabel, in half a minute, what are your two key peaks? Digital data analytics as a skill, because without evidence will not advance too far. Second is skills around the area of knowledge management. In One Health, if it's multidisciplinary, we are communicating to diverse audience. So we must learn how to configure messages for the different audience right from the community local to the policy makers. So that's a skill that we need to be able to break down those silos. Thank you. OK, thank you very much for for those insights. The last question as we draw to a close and add heat to this. So putting everything in perspective, the discussions we have had from where you stand, from what you have heard. There are the panelists and even the discussions yesterday. What would be your key take home message? Very brief and sharp. What would be your key take home message and who should be listening to that message in particular? So again, I have a prize. Everybody have a minute. So let's start with Margaret. Yeah, my message is that One Health is the way to go. It's an approach that is going to help us resolve many of the human, animal, agriculture, environmental challenges that are that are continuously facing today. In fact, our global community. And who should be listening to that? Policy makers that they can allocate money and resources. Cool. Prof. Ola Dele. Thank you. We need to make sure that One Health education is high quality, consistent and reproducible across institutions. And that requires a board that is respected. And their guidance of the competencies, in my view. Professor Nangami is one of them. We have many at this conference. That quality control will ensure marketability, accreditation and support from all the professionals that contribute to One Health as an approach. Thank you. OK, thank you. Now that you mentioned, Professor Nangami, take your one minute or less to give us your key message and who should be listening to it? Evidence, evidence, evidence. Let the evidence speak for us. We cannot preach without something in the hand. Who should be listening to us? All those who are aligned in the education sector, including the researchers, as well as the implementers and the policy makers across all the disciplines, transdisciplinary and sectors. Thank you. OK, cool. Caroline, as you were in a unique position, you are next generation workforce. So what is your take home message to us? Let me put it that way. My key message is that the principles of One Health would really benefit not just the health sector, but solve several global issues, including climate change, biodiversity loss. And so I I feel that's One Health and I know that One Health is some is is an approach that would benefit several professions out there in order to solve any way to achieve the SDGs. So yes, we should continually not shy away from inviting various professions. Yes, and they will definitely benefit from the One Health principles. Thank you. Do you have any particular stakeholder who should be listening to that? Well, I believe this is important for all actors, policy makers, governments, civil society. OK, yes. Thank you very much. Last but not least, Aboum, what are we taking home from you? OK, thank you very much once again. I think I'd like to say workforce development, One Health workforce development is key. I don't I think lessons from covid show us that we are definitely not there as a whole world. We need to enhance the development of professionals who can work at as multidisciplinary teams and at different levels and also be able to influence the different stakeholders, including government, education, professionals, economists, the religious bodies, everyone. So we need to really widen the scope and be able to influence all these different professions and different colors from the Mamamboga to the president. Thank you. OK, thanks very much. So from what you are saying, there's lots of opportunity, lots of work to do, great space, lessons have been learned. We are beginning to see success. There's a lot of engagement, but we definitely have some homework to do jointly. Even if it's creating coherence or creating boundaries or breaking down silos, it's quite some work to do in order to to unleash the potential of One Health and what we can do with it. Let me stop here and thank all the presenters for their contribution. Very nice presentations, very nice, very nice discussions. It has been a privilege to coordinate this. And I hope that the points that we have we have gathered will give us an agenda and inform the way forward as far as One Health in Africa is concerned. So with those few remarks, let me hand over back to either Nick or Leon to close us up. Thank you very much. OK, care. Thank you so much to our panelists, both the panelists that we've just seen and all our presenters from today. Thank you so much to Dr. Wellington for that wonderful chairing and to Dr. Bernard Bette and Professor Salome Bacacci for their chairing of the session earlier today. So we are running over time. So thank you to all of you online who have lasted the course. And I'm just going to remind you that we reconvene tomorrow at 13.45. So 145 Nairobi time with a really great session on sort of we've worked through the research, we've looked at the capacity gaps, we've looked about gender mainstreaming. Now we really get to how we are going to put this into policy and implementation. And that's where we start again tomorrow. So we look forward to seeing you all then. Thank you very much and we'll close there. Bye.