 Okay, so should we start, I guess. So this thing is about evaluating discourse, forum software, and some decision making platforms. And Sophie Gotia was supposed to give the presentation on discourse, but she unfortunately had to go run some errands. So I will present this topic myself. And we should have Daniel Rodriguez present about the decision making platforms, but I'm not seeing him around. I can hear you now. Sorry for interrupting, I'm just... Yeah, yeah. It feels fantastic, doesn't it? Yeah, but I unfortunately cannot present about the decision making platforms, but I can give a shot at presenting this discourse thing. I hope you are seeing these slides. We are. Oh my gosh. Well then, this is the agenda briefly. Why, how, what's next, and testers feedback. So what's the point of this? Well, we ran Askbot for many, many years as questions and answers platform and TDF invested in it and its maintenance. But unfortunately, it did not receive much investment from other sources. So the decision was made to look into other solutions. And at the same time, there was demand for simply a discussion forum as well. So we figured that it would be a good idea to just use the discussion forum with like a dual purpose. So it would have the questions and answers functionality as well. There are some newer purely questions and answers platforms, but they are quite young. So they haven't really proven themselves yet. So we disqualified them from the evaluation or actually they were so new that some of them were started after we started looking into this. And yeah, this course seems pretty nice. I myself evaluated several of these discussion forum platforms like PHP, BB, Flarum and tools like this. But we have quite strict requirements because we want to have solid multi language support and certain other things. So this really only left this course. And yeah, it does have a pretty large user base and contributor base. Yeah, actually, if someone has the test instance link in their browser history, they might share it in the chat. I forgot to do that. So people might want to check it out. So the Askbot moderators were invited to go and test the site which Gillem deployed. And there was intense testing and feedback. And various plugins were installed based on on the demand and feedback there. So now there just needs to be the final decision. Do we switch from Askbot to this course and then we can do more. So among the plugins installed was a tool that allows logging in via the TDF single sign on service. And of course the questions and answers plug in and plug into mark a topic as solved. And yeah, it has one category per language. And various other functionalities activated. I don't know if I should just enumerate all of these. So the next step would be tweaking the cosmetics of the site. And this would then move to a second round of feedback regarding this visual choices. So Sophie is going to ask for even more feedback. And the feedback so far was quite positive. And Sophie says that in her own experience Askbot users are a bit confused often. And don't use it like this Stack Overflow type of platform but treat it like a discussion forum. So in her own opinion this course is really much better suited for this thing that we want to do. And user support and general discussion. Yeah, so that's it on this. Yeah, thanks for sharing the forum link there. And I'm not sure if I would be able to answer any questions. But if you have something you want to say, please do. I will advertise the next or a late session on the website. The user experience work that is being done. It starts as 9 p.m. UTC late for Europeans. But it is an interesting way to get to the point what is actually needed. Indeed, I can share the link to this website event. Okay, so I don't know, I guess we didn't. Is Maria have a question? Okay. We should probably design the way that people will approach this course. Because it's a forum. It's a question and answer. It has multiple features. And for example, if I'm running the Brazilian discourse, I absolutely need to have several categories, question and answers, things like that. And this has to be, I mean, it's not just to use the tool and test. I like it, but the success will depend on the way we design the different categories and forums. So you need specific Brazilian categories as well? My understanding is that this is going to replace or supersede mailing lists. Which in the case of the Brazilians, many of these are almost never used anymore. So people would like to have different ways to get in touch with the community. And very often they use Facebook, Twitter and other kind of telegram channels. And that's why I think that we need a way to have a service that could be serving all this kind of question that we can get in touch with the end user. So for example, if we have a group in Facebook, we would like to forward the questions to this course. But then we should absolutely have a good landing page for this course if the user has a question that needs to be answered. So there is a lot of work to do in tweaking this course with the right configuration for end user point of view. Yeah, right, because we have such a multitude of the categories as the languages keep increasing. And it's a good point that there needs to be some clear landing page on how to navigate to what you're interested in. Okay, so it seems that Daniel is unable to talk to us about the decision making platforms. So does anyone have any strong opinions on the tools that we use at the moment? Any other stuff we could chat about? Of course, I can have a monologue about some way of application. I mean, for example, bugzilla, that old beast, which seems to be in a bit of a limbo at the moment. But it's finally coming to a state where they are able to provide an upgrade path to the completely revamped version. So the story was that several years ago there was this internal fork in Mozilla. So Mozilla went and developed bugzilla further and the changes could not be integrated into upstream bugzilla. Yeah, so that's a good lesson. Never do things like that. But now finally this knot has been untangled and we are basically at the point that we could even deploy the upgrade testing on our servers at the moment. I guess Daniel is approaching a computer, so he might be able to present after all. Yeah, Dennis had a question. Is there already a decision? No, there is no decision about moving from ASKBOT to discourse yet. If there was a decision, it would have been announced on the mailing list and upgrade path. Yeah, Gillem wrote about that. There is no one-to-one mapping possible for ASKBOT, but I would guess that lots of important content can be migrated. After all, it's just a question of mapping database tables or fields, but not all of the metadata. I guess I lost the beginning of the workshop since I'm here from two minutes. Have you already described the differences between ASKBOT and discourse and the reasons for which we should eventually move? Yes, I presented Sophie's slides because she couldn't join at this moment. I don't actually have the slides up anywhere, but I can put them somewhere later. But if you have something, please ask or discuss. At the moment I can't remember the differences between ASKBOT and discourse and I can't remember why we should. I remember that this topic was on the table. He's on the table for a while. I can't remember the differences because I'm not that skilled and not that used to them. Okay, yeah. I don't know if I should bore the others by repeating what I said. Unless there is nothing to say. Daniel Rodriguez could present on the decision-making platforms, but he needs to reach a computer, so he's on mobile. He's already connected, but he has no sound. But I think he's on mobile. I think he should refresh the page then. Daniel, can you try speaking? No connection lost again. Oh dear. Hey Aaron, we are waiting for Daniel to possibly present about the decision-making platforms. Shinji is asking when are we going to move to discourse? The official announcement has not been made, so Sophie will ask the current moderators for more feedback on their experience with the test instance. And then we should have enough data to make the decision. There are some red man ticket. Can you listen to me? Yes, we hear you. Okay, great. Amazing. Sorry for the delay. I need to come to work for some kind of emergency. So, decision-making platform. The intention behind the proposal is to use a tool that makes easier the communication between the body of trustees and the board in the first time. I think when we need to carry a discussion, there are too many ways, too many channels open at the same time. We have mailing lists, we have telegram groups, and so on. And we need some place where, more friendly, let's say, where we can propose an idea, collect feedback and get more participation. That's the key. Tooling participation is extremely low. For instance, we have on mailing list, we have just a subset of members, so not everyone is following discussions. Let's take the TDC staff, for instance. There was many threads about the topic and not many people involved. So, we need to find another tool to involve more participants. That's the idea behind the proposal of another platform. The one, the ones, in fact, currently being evaluated, is Decidim from the Hispanic City Development and Lumia. It's another. Both makes pretty much the same. As said, you can make a proposal, you may collect feedback about that. People can make another proposal and get some more feedback. So, you can achieve some better understanding about a topic. That's the idea. Currently, only Decidim is deployed under the TDF infra, with some issues on the mailing capacity to send mail. So, I propose myself to make such deployment, but unfortunately I couldn't dedicate in the way I would like to the task in the recently. My availability changed, so seems a couple of months, at least I couldn't follow with the implementation, but so far, as said, what we have deployed is Decidim, which is pretty different from what we now have available at TDF tooling. Once solved the mailing issues, we can follow discussions or proposals through mail too. I don't see it as a replacement of any of the tooling currently available, since it has a different approach. I think we need to test in a real case scenario, so we can see how people interact with such tooling. That's my point of view. That's what I can say so far. Thank you. So, any questions for Daniel? For my side, just thanks a lot for bringing the topic up and for looking into it. We all are busy and have many things and lives can change, so that is fine, it simply happens. But I want to thank you for bringing the idea up and pursuing it. I think it's a good initiative, even if you need some more time to look into it and implement it. But the idea already is quite good, so thanks a lot for that. My pleasure. Okay, so if there are no more questions, I propose that we close the session if no one has any better ideas. From my side, it's fine, thanks a lot for your work for looking into that and for presenting it. This is a long-term goal. I think the final decision was initially planned for LiboCon 2021. All our lives and maybe priorities changed, so we are quite well on time. We look into that and we update you as we can. I think we will of course not make a big change in a year from now, but try to gradually improve and bring things forward. But the estimated time was around next year that time, just for the expectation and the planning. The idea initially was also, it's not necessary that we make a change, we want to evaluate the outcome. Could also be there is no change required, only partially changes required. So it was an open question that is had to be answered like in a year from now. Just kick off so to speak to present the things that are going on. Right on, so I hope to see some of you in the website presentation later tonight. Thanks a lot. Bye bye. Bye bye, I think that room is closed for the moment, there are no further workshops for today. So we continue with a regular schedule in room one, room two, and of course in the chat room, the people can meet for a beer, coffee or whatever you prefer. Bye bye.