 Even if it's short form content, it's a piece of a long form of content. You know, like whatever that is in the music video that's gonna make somebody like really engaged, that part is gonna get chopped out rather than it's by me or somebody else anyway. Like when I look at my most viral moment, you know, and this is when I made my vote, don't count. That was a full-length record, but you know, just a portion of it while I was breaking down the government got chopped out and you know, took it to that next level. What's up, what's up, what's up? I'm Brandman, Sean. I'm Cory. And we are back with another episode of No Labels Necessary Podcasts. You can catch us every Tuesday, every Wednesday on Apple, Spotify, here on YouTube, wherever you stream your podcast, here at the intersection of creative and currency. This is No Labels Podcasts. And as you know, we like to bring on people who represent No Labels, not just not signed to a label, but how they're moving, moving different. And I got a perfect guest for y'all today. Hey. Yellow. Hey. What's up? What's up? Well, look, man, for y'all who don't know Yellow Pain, I mean, if you haven't caught the yellow hair somewhere on the internet, this dude, first time I came across him, it's probably been three, four years maybe even now, but he was going super viral on YouTube, on Facebook too. He was going crazy viral, millions and millions, probably tens of millions on Facebook because of the content. And when I say content, I don't mean like some TikTok-y type stuff. I'm talking about his actual music videos, whole music videos going viral. And that's a dream for a lot of artists actually when you think about it, right? So I want to start there with the creativity because there's very few, again, especially somebody with no label, you know, and that's really figuring out how do you make stuff go viral off of a full music video in today's era? How do you approach content and look at the content game in general? When it comes to especially going viral, like music videos, I think they really come down to the passion, you know what I'm saying? Because like a lot of people create music and create content specifically with the goal to go viral. And every time I say this is like, if you go to the studio with like, I'm about to make the best song of my life right now, like it's usually the worst songs you ever make. You know what I'm saying? The best songs are the ones where you like really purging something that's inside of you. Rather, even if it's like, you even if it's a strip club song, if you're that type of artist, like you're speaking from an experience that's so genuine that people can just relate on a personal level. So I think with me, with the music videos going viral, it comes from like me really going through something or somebody around me going through something to a capacity where one, it either hurt or I felt it to that capacity, but then also I think me trying to explain that to somebody, the only way to really explain it sometimes, it takes a lot to get the message across for somebody to truly understand how I feel. And that's why sometimes the videos have so much to it. You know, the creativity gets maxed because I really need somebody to get it. You know what I mean? So you're kind of looking at the videos and just like an extension of the message or a way to put parts of the message you can actually like explain in words pretty much. Exactly. Yeah. I got you. I got you. I mean, I got a question kind of off there, right? So we've seen, right? There's been a lot of like, there's just like industry talk in the last year and a half about music videos dying off, right? Like you kind of hit a sentiment like a music video is on as powerful as they used to be. It's kind of all about the short form stuff, right? Talks, the reels and things like that. Has that transition affected the way you look at your music videos at all? And if so, like, like how are you kind of maneuvering that with that depth in the wave? Well, no, because most stuff that's viral anyway, even if it's short form content, it's a piece of a long form of content. You know what I'm saying? So, you know, like whatever that is in the music video that's going to make somebody like really engaged, that part is going to get chopped out rather than it's by me or somebody else anyway. Like when I look at, you know, obviously my, I would say biggest song to date, maybe not the biggest streaming song to date, but like my most viral moment, you know, is when I made my vote don't count. And that was a full length record, but you know, just a portion of it while I was breaking down the government got chopped out. And, you know, that's what, you know, took it to that next level. So I'm not really afraid of like people not having that type of attention span. My attention span is short. Like, you know how quick it is to like get distracted and not want to see something no more. So I'm not worried about it. I feel like that's the hard part about music but like that's fine. But then, but then again, like also to the kind of music that our music videos that I make, you know what I'm saying? Because I'm hands on with it and because I control the narrative, it's like movies still ain't one out of style. You know what I'm saying? So if you could get some, like people are going to be engaged for four minutes for something that they wish was an hour and a half. You know what I'm saying? That's a whole different way I'm looking at it. Because you are basically taking that hour and a half and making it potent, right? Exactly. And busting that down where I feel like a lot of artists when they do create music videos these days, part of the problem is the music video isn't that amazing anyway. So it was like, if I'm just standing around or whatever, like on a card or just doing like the same stereotypical things then it's not going to be anything special. I just spent more money to do it. This is you, you're telling a story. Ain't you damn good at it, right? Like it's true, like that directorial, like all that. I remember when we first talked years ago, like you said that's all you, right? Like the camera work and all that stuff, right? So like there's an eye and a perspective and I think it makes sense too for you to be the person who's also like directing it. And you find that a lot with those type of artists where you're actually saying something. So it's hard to just pass off what you're saying visually to somebody else. You know what I mean? And I've tried, you know what I'm saying? Like there has, and I won't name the specific song or video but there has been times where like I have somebody on shoot it and you know, pay them to do the edit and get it back and just be like, yeah, but the story ain't like, ah, just send me the footage. You know what I'm saying? And then I put it together and then it'd be, you know, what we know it as, you know what I'm saying? Because the videos, like nobody could tell my story better than I could tell my story. You know what I'm saying? You know, if somebody came to me with the plot and said, I think this would be the dopest concept to this song, then I would let them execute it. But majority of the videos, especially the ones that have, you know, concepts or got some emotion that, you know, it really took something out of me. Like how could I have somebody else do it? It wouldn't even make sense. They don't even know what I went through. You know what I mean? So what is your story, man? You know, from Dayton, Ohio, a lot smaller town, you know, what was it like coming up in Dayton? Cause I don't know much, like my family's from Columbus on one side and that's the only city I've ever been to in Ohio. But Dayton, you just told me that was a smaller town. I didn't realize it. So like, what was that like in, you know, you know, coming up in that environment? Dayton is a real small town. You know what I'm saying? And I'm not going to make it extremely small but the side that I'm from is small. You know what I'm saying? Everybody know everybody. It's a small town mentality. You know what I'm saying? You got your superstars that in a city you might feel like that's bigger than life but it's just like it don't go that far. You know, we don't got no celebrities. You don't see like an Atlanta like you could get inspired because somebody riding past with a Lamborghini and you know, they grew up two blocks away from you. Like the nicest car you're going to probably see, you know, me growing up might be like a Chrysler 300. You're not seeing nothing crazy. You know what I'm saying? But that was my favorite car. One point because that was the nicest car I had known was a Chrysler 300. So you can kind of see how limiting the mindset was, you know, I grew up with a whole lot of siblings and we didn't have a whole lot of resources and trying to create music. I started making music so early at seven, you know, and knowing that that's what I wanted to do at such a young age. You know, I really had to figure it out and almost create a path where there wasn't one. So, you know, it was it was difficult but one thing I will say is that I had love, you know what I'm saying? Like, you know, I always receive love, you know what I'm saying? Even if it wasn't resources or money, it was definitely love. And I think because I know what that looked like, I'm able to kind of like express that through the music. Man, so like speaking of that small towns, like the environment, you shared a post, well, I shared one of your posts for the day where you were talking about, you know, working out in your perspective of black people, right? In Ohio and then translating that over to Atlanta and seeing black people completely different. Yeah. One, can you kind of speak on that a little bit? Because I think that perspective's value, like I'm going somewhere with it, but I want to kind of hear you reiterate and then like you personally going through that journey and just changing perspective on that. Yeah, so basically just to retell the story, I was working out in Dayton, Ohio, where I'm from and I go to the gym at five in the morning because I like to get it out the way so it don't interfere with the rest of the day. Because I know if I don't go by eight, I'm not going, I'm not, I'm not, I'm trying to be a famous rapper. I'm not trying to be a fitness model, you know what I'm saying? So, you know, I go to the gym at five in the morning and I just see all these white people and I'm like, oh, okay, you know, it's just us who'll be in here. But like maybe I'm in the white, at a white gym, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, around eight, nine, that's when black people start coming in. So in my mind, I'm like, oh, you know what I'm saying? Black people, you know, like the stereotypes, like we must show up late or, you know what I'm saying? We don't, you know, that's not our thing or maybe we'd probably be here in the evening. I didn't necessarily think black people don't care to work out and just they don't get here this early, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, moving to Atlanta, I got to the gym at five in the morning. I went to all the different gyms because I like to, like, I kind of went on like a LA fitness tour to some capacity. Like just to see what like the different ones is, but all of them, like five in the morning, the butt care, five in the morning on old national, like it's black people, you know what I'm saying? I'm like, oh, like imagine if I were to win out, you know, and like, and put that as a piece of content, you know what I'm saying? Like black people, we need a dot, dot, dot, but then I was thinking that kind of opened my mind because there's so many things like when you think about like relationship gurus and, you know, people that's like, or even like our aunties and grandmas that give us a perspective of life that we can run with and think that that's how it's supposed to be, or this is life and this is law. And in reality, you know, she only mess with toxic dudes, you know what I'm saying? Or he only, you know what I mean? Are they only seeing what's in this realm of their life? And I'd be having to realize that, you know, before I even go on the internet now, like before I even speak because people listen to, sometimes hang on to every word I say. So it's like, I can't just be out here and I don't think none of us should be even receiving or giving information without really knowing what we're talking about. You know what I mean? Really getting other people's perspective. Bro, I appreciate hearing that just because of what you said, perspective and perspective is so powerful for our artists. And you can sense that in your, like your videos, right? Yeah. Like it should actually thoughtful and you're taking a perspective. And like you said, you could, you might have did a whole video on her song, especially the time of the music that you made. Yeah, a whole video passionate about something. Like if you didn't do better than that, you know? Being willing and thoughtful and paying attention enough to notice like that dissonance in your own mind. I think that shows up in your videos because I look at a lot of great artists as like kind of like similar to comedians, right? You could tell you've been observing, you know? Like always thinking. And then you figure out how to put that into the track and every, your songs are very conceptual and it takes like observation or sometimes it's just kind of more expressive through other experience. But I think it's dope to see like someone, you also just put that in like a regular clip because I personally like heard you like just throw something in the clip. Like I'm like, damn man, I can see that. Cause I'm from Atlanta. And I only know this. And you only know this, right? Sometimes like people like say certain things about black people or have certain perspectives like hearing black people say it. And I was like, I just don't know that. I don't see that. Cause they've been my doctors, my lawyers, my mayors, like my whole life, right? It was funny to hear that. Yeah, that's interesting. So how do you, actually you mentioned my vote don't count. Yeah. Gotta know, like you already had some viral videos and said that was your biggest one. When you say that was my biggest track, right? You talking about like feeling like your vote doesn't count feeling that many people have what's wrong with government you know, things that many people feel but you say it was your biggest. What does it mean by that was my biggest? It's more of the song that, because it's two different kinds of viral, right? You have internet viral and you have socially viral. And that's a big, big difference because some people got extremely large platforms and some people got extremely small platforms. Regardless, some people you know and some people you don't. And I'm not talking about, you know, in a sense of like if you personally a fan, I mean, you can actually show a picture of them and say, hey, have you seen this guy on the street? People will say, yeah, I know who that is. Rather they know the music or not. And I think my vote don't count is what made me socially viral. You know, you don't have to know my music or listen to my music. You just might've just been on LeBron's page or you might've seen the commercial where they ran it or you might've, you know, that's what made me socially viral. It made me the topic of conversation. So that's why- On LeBron's page? Yeah. I missed that one. It was a lot, like a lot of pages. Like break that down I remember I saw you in like a news channel. I can't remember what news channel it was, but like, that's different, you know what I'm saying? Different type of stuff. So can you even just kind of like get run down quite a few of those places that got highlighted? I mean, I mean, you can start off with Shade Room. That's like the culture, you know what I'm saying? And then, you know, like once you make Shade Room, you kind of like part of the culture to some capacity. But then, you know, like Viola Davis, we got LeBron, we got, you know, I was on Oprah, you know what I'm saying? Steve Harvey, when I tell you the list is so long, you know, Tracy Ellis wrote, I could like try to break, like remember, but it's just that was like a point in time where so much is happening that it becomes a blur. You know what I'm saying? Like everybody, you know, my favorite rapper, Meek Mill, every tweeted it. It's just like, you know, I was just seeing it from politicians to, you know, the top people, now I'm trying to remember, but it's like, I would really have to look, it's so many, you know what I mean? Like it was a conversation, you know what I mean? Let me take a quick second to tell you about Forever Fan because many of you know that my agency is responsible for helping multiple artists blow up tens of billions of views and billions of streams. But I want to specifically talk about a strategy that we've used to help artists get millions of streams on their very first song. And as a matter of fact, in the last 12 months, an artist got signed to a major label using this specific strategy and you'll never guess what it is. Pre-saves, yeah, that's right. Pre-saves, they're extremely powerful when you do them correctly, but most people don't understand how to do it. See, the problem becomes we've been all this effort for this pre-save campaign and then the song finally comes out. And then what happens after that? Nothing, you're starting from ground zero again because you're not about to ask people to pre-save every single time you drop a song. So I'm here to put you on to our solution for that, which is Forever Fan, a platform that removes this massive pain for artists by making it so when a fan pre-saves one of your songs, they automatically pre-save every single song that you drop after that. So your work doesn't just create a one-time fan of a single song, it creates a forever fan. And you can take advantage of this same solution. Go to foreverfanmusic.com so that you can get more streams and a deeper relationship with your fans for the same amount of effort. Foreverfanmusic.com, check it out now. It goes to a point, something you said, like goes to a point, I saw Charlemagne the Godmate. Him too, that's another one, I'm glad. Okay. Yeah. So recently, he did like another Vlad TV interview and Vlad said something to the effect of like, alluding to Charlemagne being hot air and stuff in the culture before or whatever, like the breakfast club, and then saying, you know, now they have like these politicians and things like that on the show. But, you know, I guess it's not as hot, right? And then Charlemagne was saying, he's like, no man, maybe you can't feel it from your side. But he's like, no, he said like the conversation of like, I guess, social, like you said, like the more social issues and things like that. You say it's a completely different type of, like, rivalry opens up a completely different world in like that culture, which is a lot smaller, kind of like how you mentioned the perspective of being smaller, trying to send things one way. It seemed like that conversation of the culture that we tend to think within hip hop that's so quote unquote big, it's actually a lot smaller than we feel like. So did you feel like you kind of like broke out of that in that moment, at least on that side of it? What you mean by broke out of it? Broke out of it, okay. No, experienced a little bit of the outside of the matrix of like the regular hip hop conversations where we're like, you're trying to stand out as a lot of artists, like within this traditional hip hop culture, we know what that is, right? And those publications and that were show the things that we look at as cloudy in that space. And then you had this big moment. And as big as it was, it wasn't necessarily a hip hop moment, you know, that moment. It was like this other world. Did you feel like, oh snap, like I didn't even realize it was like this over here. I'm like, my mind's opening up to a different world and did that change? I mean, to be honest though, like hip hop is like the most popular, probably genre, you know what I'm saying? So it's like when you kind of have a moment, especially as a hip hop artist, it's already like bigger than hip hop, you know what I'm saying? Because everybody is tapped in the hip hop. So I think one thing is it really showed me the possibilities of like how you don't necessarily have to like, like you said, like get signed or you just gotta have something good enough for people to care, you know what I'm saying? On that, I guess on a level that taps in with the industry, you know what I'm saying? I think that kind of opened that window up for me or that mindset, you know what I mean? Got you. One thing that kind of makes me wonder man is like, I don't know, when we have clients that go viral for the first time, one of the first things I always pay attention to is like how to handle it. You know what I'm saying? You know, it's kind of like one of the dreams of ours is to go viral, but then once you in the moment, it's kind of like a scary experience, right? So your viral moment wasn't just like a million views on TikTok, it's like tens of millions across, probably hundreds of millions if we can't include like the public attention and the things. So like, what was it like transitioning from ours with, you know, whatever size of attention you had then to like now dealing with like that level of attention on yourself? I think the only thing that really transitioned because I had already like been on tour, I had already had like a lot of the hip hop experiences. I think it just, when you switch from like a popular rapper to the music industry, you know what I'm saying? You kind of like, different things just kind of happen, you know what I'm saying? Like you just meet people, you get in rooms that you know, you just get invited to different stuff that you might not have typically your experience on a day-to-day basis is now a celebrity experience. But musically, you know, like how many people gonna show up to the show, that type of stuff don't change. You just kind of get exposed to more things, you know what I mean? Yeah, so did you struggle with having the attention from it at first? So like you said, you already had the regular like fan artist. I think it was the people know this, but you know, or not people, but it was a kind of a fear at this point because you know, like I know what I usually make and this was like a one-off. You know, like this wasn't even supposed to be my mission or nothing, but now I'm known as, you know, this guy, you know what I mean? So it was like a what do I do? But just, you know, getting advice from other people and even just like Gary Vee's like document verse and create and just, you know, just understanding that, hey, don't try to put yourself nowhere, like do what you've been doing. That's how you got here. If you start trying to like do what you want people to know from you, then you won't go any further. You know what I'm saying? Like, or you might go backwards. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's really what I'm on is like doing what I've been doing when I get inspired, I get emotional about a certain concept. I put it into music, I put it into the video. Like, you know, obviously, you know, once new money come in, you could do other ventures and podcasts and whatever else you want to do. But as far as like the actual thing that got you here, like don't stop doing that, you know what I mean? So that's what I'm at with. Yeah, and I always feel like that's a, that's a hard carrot to walk away from. Right? Like I go viral for this particular thing. I could just knock out 10 more songs. Like this, yeah, I think that's career suicide though. In my opinion, you know what I'm saying? It depends. It depends where you at with it, right? Cause I went viral with a social issue. You know what I mean? If I had went viral with it, like maybe it's actually beneficial for some people. Like, for example, like The Baby, it's like, why would you switch up this? You know, like because people saying we want to hear something else, like no. But that's still what he been doing. You know what I'm saying? Don't switch up what you been doing. He been doing that. Before that song, he had 10 like that. You know what I'm saying? So you know what I'm saying? So don't switch up. Whatever you've been doing to get to this point, don't try to change it now. You know what I mean? Okay. I got you. So I mean, even in that too, man, I would assume that the audience that came from that was a lot more of a political audience. I was like, no, no, it was a hip hop audience. You know what I'm saying? Cause to be honest, let's be real. Like most people don't, don't really, didn't really get it. You know what I'm saying? Like, you're not about to have that much information and get it immediately. It's really more so of like the fact that I did it. You know what I'm saying? It was like, he did this with a rap. You know what I'm saying? It was more so of that. You know what I mean? Like he was able to make me feel this way with a rap. It's like, oh, voting is important. Like if you ask somebody after they listen to it, like, what was he saying? If they're not already in politics, they still gonna be like, I don't know, but he said it. You know what I mean? So I think people was just impressed by like the ability to do it. And then to see people in politics actually stamp it and say that what he said was valid. You know what I mean? It just worked in my benefit. But I wouldn't say that I don't get me wrong. It got me in a whole nother space. You know what I'm saying? I'm definitely in political conversations. Like I'm one of the people they call now when they need to appeal to, you know, younger people. But as far as like my actual audience, it's still, it's still hip hop. Gotcha. Gotcha. Okay. It's interesting, I feel like one thing that's going to contribute to your longevity is the ability to compartmentalize things. You multiple times would say, well, this is my audience. And this is what it looks like. And then here's a celebrity space. And that doesn't change the celebrity space, but you're now just hanging out with maybe potential celebrities. And then you say, well, this is a political space. Like you see everything separately and you don't let it like conflate into your main thing where things get blurry and you get mixed in the thing. And oh yeah, they just like gonna feel whatever I do. You probably know what works in one space. You know what works in another space. And you move accordingly. Yeah. And I'm not afraid to try new things though. You know, it's not like a, like this is what works. So let me only, only, only do this. Cause I feel like we live in the age where you, you can't plan viral. You know what I'm saying? I just think with me, it's just about authenticity. You know what I'm saying? Like I could, I could try something else, but I still won't lose my integrity. Or you know what I'm saying? I won't do something that's extremely unauthentic to what I, what feels right to me. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't know the moment that it's like, bro, this ain't, this ain't me. You know what I'm saying? I won't even force it. Well, you say you can't plan viral, but you gone viral awfully, you know what I'm saying? So what do you do? Like when you think about, I'm about to put something out. Well, you know the video and the content is going to be like strong, but then I put it out. What happens now? I believe in, in like good dope cell itself. You know what I'm saying? Like I don't sell drugs. That's what it's just a concept. You know what I'm saying? I don't get me wrong. Marketing is extremely important. I would never tell somebody don't market. You know, especially this artist that market a record for a year or two years and then finally popping B, you know, the biggest song. But you know, I feel like in this climate right now, you're, especially once you start to build the audience, like people, like there was like, it's too easy to hit the share button. You know what I'm saying? It's too easy to be inspired by something. If you put something out and nobody was inspired, I'm not saying give up on your record, but sometimes the data, the analytics tell you that it's not good, you know what I mean? Like, and sometimes we get in our own way and feel like this is great. Well, who's saying it's great? You know what I'm saying? And I think I might hit the go button once somebody else tell me it's great. To some capacity. I'm not saying that I live in the results of people. You know what I mean? But you know, I do me and I feel like you make slight adjustments as you go. You know what I'm saying? So if I put something out and say if it go a little viral or say it got some views, I have to realize what was it about that that made somebody like it? You know what I'm saying? What didn't they like about it? Why is it not on the radio but it's viral on the internet? Why is it this, you know, getting played here and people want to play the song, but they don't want to watch the video? What is it? You know what I mean? And just like you kind of like chip away at it. And I think that's just really practice. You know what I'm saying? You just keep going and going until you figure out, okay, you're getting better as you go. You know what I'm saying? I think once you figure it out, what's good you actually understand? Like I think viral becomes out. Let's take the word viral out of it, but success becomes inevitable because you've already done it a million times. You know what I'm saying? If you, you know, working on a car, you're not going to mess up the car the next time. You know what I mean? You don't fix 30 cars. You know what I'm saying? So I think that's kind of what it is. It's like every single one is not going to go viral. But what I do, because I've already taken away the stuff that makes it bad, you know what I'm saying? And I've added the stuff that makes it good. And I know that that's what makes it good. You know, then how can we not, after 10 of them, not do it again? You know what I mean? I'm so glad you said that. That's such a hard point to get artists to understand right where it's like, hey, that's a marker that's been told in my opinion. You know what I'm saying? Because we have to kind of think of it in a way like how can I take the 2% I learned that was good in this video and apply to the next one and eventually by like your 20th video, you add to 100%, right? But a lot of artists kind of fall short. You know, it can be a lot of little things about like we've had beautiful, we might be like, oh, I can tell that the background of the room changed the engagement of the video. We should do more videos and like. Yeah, and it's not always like my bad because it's not always the emotional thing that did it. Sometimes it's something like because I'm on all sides of it. You know what I mean? Like I'm on the video side of it. You know what I'm saying? I'm on the, you know, like it might, the message might have been perfect, but just like you might not have showed the eyeballs of the girl in the video or you might have, all your shots might have been close to the head and you didn't show the full body for somebody to put their self like, you know what I mean? So it's like, it gets very intricate when you talking about shaving stuff off and adding stuff. It's not always, you know, cause when you think about what you might think people like about my music because it might be what you liked about it, that might not be what I see, you know what I'm saying? So it's like really just understanding from every aspect from the beat to the way that I even attack the rap, you know what I mean? To the inflections of my voice when I'm rapping it to the, you know what I mean? Like, and then, you know, so it's really like perfecting the whole thing, not just, you know, like conceptually will make something viral but actually the whole package, you know what I mean? I think that's the important part when you wanna make something as an artist, right? Like I talked to a lot of artists and I've told people, I'm like, yo, like why does so many people who are supposed to be an artist stop their creativity at their music? Right? It's like the songs, they just throw some stuff out there with the visual. It's like your visual needs to be creative and all those details need to be just as thoughtful as everything else. Cause once it's created, it's created. You can only market what's out, right? Or you can only show people what's out. So it's like, if you spend more time, that's what I'll usually say. I'll say, if you spend more time on the front end before you even record it, you know, before you even show up to the video, they're like, you thought through anything and all that type of stuff, you come out with a better product. So I guess one question, I really have two, but like one question is like, how much time do you put into like the actual video making process before you even show up to the shoot? Like, how do you come up with all that? I mean, that's real subjective to be honest though, because like, you know, some stuff like, you know, we were just working on a record the other day and we were just listening to the song and it wasn't even no video concept. This was like just like a, you know how like, you got an album and you got the song that's the title of the album. So you kind of got to have that on there. Who just kind of made that. And then boom, the idea came the whole video and it was like, bro, it's about to be the craziest I ever did. Like it felt like that. And you know what I'm saying? So the video was kind of like wrote itself then. So now when it's time to shoot the video, I already know it, but that was an instant moment. Some of them is like, man, I really want to get this message out but how do I put that into video and you know what I'm saying? You can hear your mind streaming that way though now. It's like an artist, a good artist, a song can come to them conceptually and I know song work longer, but it only comes with the skill set that you have, right? You can see angles fast and all this stuff fast because you've done it so many times. So you train it up that way. So I get that. Well, what do you, as someone who's paid so much attention to the process and feedback and cut the fat and all this stuff, what do you think people like about your music or, and what do you think what they like about your visuals? I think, and I feel like every artist has said this, but I don't feel like every artist could really say it from a true place. I think what I do is very authentic. You know what I'm saying? And it's like, like when I first started rapping, obviously I started rapping for the reasons everybody else started rapping, you know what I mean? Like money and all that. But then I think at one point it became therapy to me. Like rap became, it felt like my voice. You know what I'm saying? Like the only thing before views, before any of that, you know what I'm saying? It was like my place to go when like times was real hard and nobody wanted to listen to me talk or when you know what I'm saying? When I was in school and I had a certain type of shoes on and it was laughing at me and you know what I mean? Like that was the place that I went when people I love died, you know what I mean? Like that was the place that I went, you know what I'm saying? So when I rap, it's not like, I don't think about like how many numbers this is gonna do. I'm really trying to get some off, you know what I mean? I'm trying to get in the mold. Like that's my happiest place is when I'm putting together music. So I think people can feel that, you know what I'm saying? People can feel the authenticity. There are a lot of other rappers that might even have more numbers and success in certain spaces that you might consider in my same lane, if you wanted to try to call it a lane. But the way that I feel like my music make you feel, it don't matter how much you try to fabricate that and like I'ma do a song about parents not treating their children. You could redo it, but it's like I'ma do a song about drug addiction. It's like so many, it's a whole lane for drug addiction, right? But when I do it, it's like, bro, this is not for no numbers. Like I got close, close family that I'm really trying to help get off of drugs. Like I'm watching them die in front of me, you know what I'm saying? So I think it's that like people can feel what I feel when I put it out. Cause it's therapy, it's not about the music more or something, you know what I mean? Have you ever found that to be like tempting to talk about a concept just cause a concept is dope, which maybe you're not connected to it? No. And the reason why is because I didn't really start getting no form of success until people started, until I didn't get no success before people cut onto my heart, you know what I'm saying? So I know that that's what people like, you know what I'm saying? Like if I was to just be like putting out shots, like this is where I'll try my hand at, right? I was doing emotional music and I was putting it out from my heart and that wasn't necessarily doing well. So I try to do the other stuff, like the trap rap, like the fun and a high energy. I tried my hands at some of them and those wasn't doing well, you know what I'm saying? But then once the stuff that was coming, so genuine start doing well, I realized, okay, this is what works, me being genuine. Cause disingenuous for me is not emotional like concept. Disingenuous for me is like the other stuff that get other people high, you know what I'm saying? I think self-awareness was like key for me, you know what I'm saying? Standing in my lane, you know what I mean? And that's why I said ironing out like what people like and what people don't like. I realized that it wasn't the message, it was how I actually attack the music, the production and stuff like that. It's the stuff that I had to, you know, or the video, like how I did it was the stuff that I have to like do to make it better, not the message, you know what I'm saying? So I'm not like trying to like people like this for me, let me do more emotional. It's like, no, let me get a higher quality camera. Cause when I shot with this camera, finally like they, you know what I mean? They received it better. So it's like more of that aspect of really just knowing when your product is bad. You know what I mean? Yeah. What's that like when I, as an artist, when you say my product is bad, like you actually admit that to yourself. I don't hear that a lot. I got real niggas around me. That's one good thing. That's, I feel like having real niggas around you, real people that really like is gonna keep it real with you is that probably saved my career. You know what I'm saying? Like my best friend and my producer, like it hadn't been so many times where I came to him with a whole song, whole concept. He like, but that's ass. Like he ain't so serious, but he not standing from a place of, I'm not about to tell you why and I'm not about to help you make it not ass. He just tell me out the gate, like that's ass, but you know what I'm saying? And then now we got a song. Like I remember my biggest actual song number wise is graduation. You know what I'm saying? It's called Graduation. It's about how parents treat their children unequally. I was like, I want to get a singer on here. And he like, no, I think you would do a, it sound better coming from your voice. And you know, I know I can't sing. So I'm like, no, I want to sing her, but just having, you know, just somebody around you that tell you why, you know what I mean? That you shouldn't do this type of thing. You know, it, you know, it produced through good results. You know what I mean? I think having good people around us, everything that's going to tell you like this ain't it. You know what I mean? Yeah. I think people downplay like the, the value of having like different perspectives around you. Like, even if you don't agree as a artist. If you got yes man around you, you going to lose for sure. I know people that got yes man around you that won't tell them like that it's bad. And I see the complacency of the, or the, the, the hamster world that they own. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it obviously helps the music too, especially coming from a producer as well. Like a lot of people, you know, have beat makers that are producers who have an opinion. I feel like good producers. Because you hear when they talk about Dr. Dre, he always has an opinion or not. So that seems like something that helps the music too. Yeah, absolutely. I've been in studios with different producers where they don't even touch nothing. You know what I'm saying? But they like goats, you know what I'm saying? Like, where they like, you know, like, yeah, you do this here, you touch that, you blah, blah, blah. But they produce the whole record from here and maybe from here, but they're not like instrumented. They're not beat makers, you know what I'm saying? They tell the artists, I think you should do something like, and you know how you do your thing. And they know, they trust you to do you. But at the same time, they like got a vision. You know what I mean? So a producer is way more instrumental in the record than like somebody that just sends you a pack of beats. You know what I'm saying? That's two different things. I love that, man. Cause people talk a lot about producers and I feel like a lot of people kind of like, like dilute them down to just being the beat maker. And if you're somebody who has that type of eye and understand how to compose, right? To me, that's what it is. Like, you really, you're a composer. Steve Jobs had this quote. I don't know if it was real, cause I just saw it, I don't, but I saw it. It was like, they put it in the movie or somebody in the commercial. And he was like, some people play instruments. I play the orchestra. To me, that seems like a producer versus, you know, you're not a beat maker. That's not a beat maker. That's a beat maker, right? So you're a violinist. You're not a composer. It seems like producers are like that. And that's, to me, got validated by what you said, but I don't want some who don't get it. I don't want to get it their name, you know what I mean? If we don't get into it like that and push those buttons themselves, they just don't think of them as producers. You know, it's some people that we know and love that's like, revered as goats today that don't, that only just send beat packs too. So, you know, it's to each his own, but I guess from a personal respect level of the actual guy that's involved, you know what I mean? I'll personally respect you more when you got a little bit more to do with it than just sending off some beats, you know what I mean? Well, like switching off real quick because I just thought about the pushback that you've gotten from some of your stuff, right? You've, of course, had these viral moments and we talked more on the positive side, but one of my guys, he was showing me a op-ed when you did the Thanksgiving video, all right? That was a wild video, you know what I mean? It was very visual, absolutely. So what is it? Talk to me about your concept on that video. Then, you know, want to kind of figure out what it's like when you have those strong perspectives coming at you as well as an artist. Like, was that a, let's start with the concept though. Yeah, the concept of happy Thanksgiving. You know, that's funny. Because, you know, I don't really talk about this one a lot. It's just one of the ones that just did what it did. But that was more so like, you know, I did my research and I did months. I think, I did more research on Thanksgiving than I did on voting. Like, I did months and months because, you know, of research on the actual holiday, and on, I guess, just to be honest, just hearing that it wasn't what it was, you know what I'm saying? So it's like, you hear, you might see a meme or anything you hear or think what it is. You just want to know. But I think once I actually knew, I was like, dang, it's the same, I'm telling you with songs that I do that's controversial. It's always like, I get upset with myself. Like, why am I moving a certain way? And I don't know. And you know what I'm saying? Like, how am I, like, how am I like, with voting that was the same concept? Like, how am I a black man in America saying I'm passionate about my community and changing that I find out that voting is the key to, you know, like, it's one of the major keys to changing our whole community. And that's a whole other conversation. Like, you know, but it's a passion now because it's like, dang, why don't I know? And it was the same thing with Thanksgiving. Like, you hear about it, like, I don't know. It's really, da, da, da. But then once you start to dig into it and pull back the layers, you realize, like, it's just so much to realize. And that's a whole convert, like I said, I read books, et cetera, visited Indian villages, talked to Native Americans. And it was the whole process before I made the song. But just getting into it, I think as black people, I think we are the most, what's the word? Cause, you know, like, I can't, I gotta be careful with my words. You can't just say the most. But I just think we are, we are, we passionate about us, you know what I'm saying? And we passionate about our people and we passionate about our history. You know what I'm saying? So when it comes against us, you know what I'm saying? It's directly, specifically us. You know what I'm saying? We don't go for none of that. You know what I'm saying? Like, if it was the Thanksgiving and it was like about African slaves and that was like the people that got murdered, just say like, without no extra layers to the history. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know how we were boycott this, we would have shut that shit, bro. We would have shut it down. We would not be still celebrate. We wouldn't, you know what I'm saying? We just, it just ain't us. So we could kind of like disconnect from it. You know what I'm saying? To us, it's not us. So we can, so we can, you know what I'm saying? So, and I think it's almost like buffoonery and it's kind of disgusting to watch people that I love. You know what I'm saying? To be like, to actually say that and say that happened so long ago. You know what I'm saying? Like, you know what I mean? Like, and that's what they say to us. When they, you know what I'm saying? Like, why should I get over slavery? Like, ain't nobody enslaved, like slaves no more. Like, but it's documented history that's out there. That's, you know what I'm saying? That people live, that's people still, like their great grandparents like actually got stories of, you know what I'm saying? That's living, you know what I'm saying? So when you see that, it's like, how could we turn our eye to that? You know what I'm saying? Like, I can't get down with it. So what I wanted to do specifically for my people was I wanted to put us in a perspective of what it would feel like, you know what I'm saying? It wasn't about killing a black family, you know what I'm saying? It was putting into the perspective of, so you can, like that's what it's always about. So you can see what this would feel like and what it looks like, you know what I'm saying? So you could put yourself in the shoes and be like, dang, I didn't think about it like that. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, that was a wild artistic flip too. Like the specific choice. I realized going through what we think about those details, like the specific choice of that family was black and obviously the lines and everything. You don't see nothing like that. I'll say that. You don't see nothing like that. I'm like, man, I'm surprised. This didn't end up on Shade Room and black people go crazy. That was interesting. But then obviously having an op-ed and people were like, I don't care, I don't, we're not gonna cancel this. It's kind of disappointing. It's disappointing? But I would say like my life's mission is not to cancel Thanksgiving, you know what I'm saying? So I can't get too invested into like people not, you know what I'm saying? It's like, I did my job, you know what I'm saying? I put it out there and let people know, you know, some history, you know what I'm saying? And let them see the perspective. And you know, I personally choose not to celebrate Thanksgiving and because I love Thanksgiving foods so much, I eat yams all year, you know what I'm saying? Like, so I don't get that FOMO when it come around, you know what I'm saying? But that's what it is. But look, man, you've done so much. At this point, as an independent artist, I know you've had to have somebody try to scoop you up in some way. Why are you still independent? Couple reasons. Definitely had people try to sign me up. I think what it is, is I feel like first off, the culture is changing, you know what I'm saying? Like the labels is getting less and less important and valuable. And they're also just actually seeing what a label is. You know, it's a group of people who individually skilled in different areas that have access to different places to put you in relationships, you know what I'm saying? And they can use their relationships and their resources to put you in different places. You know what I mean? It's not really even about the money when it comes to signing to a label. It's about the people that are in a label and what they specifically skilled at. I think at the brink of when things started to work out, I think I found the best possible team that I could have possibly found, you know what I mean? And I just don't need a label right now. You know what I mean? I just don't need them. You know what I mean? And like, I got the same access. Can you talk more about what your team looks like? Well, I don't actually know if it's... Let's just say my management, they have been in the industry and are top people in the industry and they have been in the industry and have cultivated and developed relationships for the entire course of hip hop and other genres and cultures, you know what I'm saying? So I just... It's not really about... It's not really nobody that I wouldn't have access to through the team that I'm with, you know what I'm saying? Through my management. And I think even, but aside from that, even seeing that, even if my management was no longer with me, I think knowing that they are able to manage me and I have that level of access, it just goes to show that it's, you know, as far as if they're... Because to be honest, if you want a lot of money, if you want a lot of fans, if you want like, you can get all of that without no record label, you know what I'm saying? You don't even like, it's personalities, you got Charleston, right? He not a rapper, but you can kind of see like how you can be socially somebody without, you know, a specific machine behind you. You know what I'm saying? But if you want the culture and you want to be a part of the culture, I think that's where the label come in. So it really comes to what you want out of your career because if you want money, if you want success, if you want, you know, fans, you can be like a Dax or you could be like a, you know, like some of these other like independent artists that's making, probably getting more numbers and like money, et cetera. You know what I mean? I don't know nobody pockets, that's why I didn't say money, but you know, you get, you know, you see the numbers, it's a lot different than even people that's actually signed. So it depends what your mission is. If your mission is to be a part of the culture, then a label might be more necessary. But if you got the right team around you, that's not even necessary. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's important for artists to know too, right? Cause you said it, it's like, hey, I was able to find these central people that essentially have some of the same connections that labels have. So I could, you could basically just bypass a lot of the bullshit. A lot of, exactly. Yeah, exactly. And I don't think a lot of artists get that, right? Cause especially at this point, man, we're like the way the internet's kind of opened up with how much information is out there. It's like, you could research your way to a lot of the same connections and people that they have. And then, you know, there's an extra layer of like having someone with a personal relationship, but it's much different now than like, let's say 10 years ago, where like you genuinely wouldn't know where we're going. Yeah, you wouldn't be able to get no access to even people without a label back in the day. You know what I'm saying? But I also think like what I do because of like the people, the people that it affects like lives wise, like the people that it helps is what I mean in the fix in a positive way. You know what I'm saying? You know, like I'm always, there's always going to be somebody willing to put some gasoline on it, you know what I'm saying? So a label wouldn't be necessary for me. That's not the space that I would necessarily need to go. But for somebody else that might not be in my same lane and do what I do, it might could work for them. You know what I'm saying? I'm not saying I would never sign. I'm not like red line, like after label, but just right now it's not the smartest decision. Yeah, I thought that. You talk about management. When did you get management? Cause I just want to clarify, I know a lot of artists like watched these type of things to get inspired, you know, I want anybody just like try to invalidate your entire path and be like, oh, he had management that was like that. You know what I'm saying? Like you were already, I want to make you, you were already popping. Yeah, all right. That's why you probably got good management. So out the gate, you know what I'm saying? I had like just like a close, very, very close friend just handling calls and doing like a basic level of management because stuff started to take off and people don't respect the artists. If they call the artists directly, you got it. If you start to pop and somebody call you directly and say, hey, how much is this? And you say 10,000. They might feel like, well, can we get it for this? And you got, and you negotiate that and you say, and you say no, they could create whatever narrative they want about you. So if they talk to the management that circumvents you, it keeps you the good guy always, you know what I'm saying? But that was, you know, that was like more of a representative management in the beginning, but like once I actually got management, it was like I was already, you know, this was after my vote, don't count, you know what I mean? So like actually my management came from somebody sliding the video to the manager, you know what I mean? And then it created a management team. But since then though, like I'm extremely glad of who my management is. But like you said, you got to do work. You know what I'm saying? Like, I think one of the things that my manager, one of my managers said was like, I'm not looking for no extra work to do. The one of the reasons why so easy to manage you is because you already do everything, you know what I mean? So all you got to do is bring it to my table and then we figure out what we should do with the next. So that's like, that's super dope. Cause if you going to try to find a manager to get work done, it's like my nigga have to work, you know what I'm saying? That's what a manager is for, to help accelerate. And man, like they have to have something to manage. It's the manager, you know what I mean? Or even just like you, it's almost like your system has to be a good fit for whatever that system is, right? Absolutely. You'll see a lot of RSA like, I need management to put me in explosive positions and they're thinking about how the manager can help them, not really thinking about how you fit into that. That manager's probably wrong. Like they have a model, they got strategies. Yeah. And our visions do align like the people that are, and I just not really trying to drop names right now. But like, you know, who my managers are, our visions do align perfectly. You know what I'm saying? That's why it makes the most sense. Yeah. I got you, I got you. What does yellow paint mean? So yellow is a color that represent happiness and paint that represent, it's paint, everything I've been through. So it's a happy representation of my pain, saying stay strong no matter what. What made you decide to like rock the hair consistently? Cause that's a commitment. Yeah. It is a commitment. I didn't know how much of a commitment it was until it became the commitment because like dyeing your hair is like, my hairstylist is in here. Like dye your hair is a product, it break off if you don't keep it extra moisturized. It's a lot to it. But just initially, you know what I'm saying? Yellow paint, you know, like the name, it had the meaning that it had and I still have black hair. I think the yellow hair was like, it's a couple of reasons. One, I've seen it in a dream and it was funny thing is the way I seen it in the dream is I had long yellow dreads and it was weird, but my hair won't, it's hard to even keep growing into that capacity because of how difficult it is to manage bleaching your hair. But that was one reason. And then also, you know, I feel like it just really fits what I'm, the message, cause I feel like a lot of my music, it can be so emotional that I feel like having, you know, just being able to see like some normality, you know, with the yellow, it's like, it's like it's constantly putting off a happy energy, even when some of this stuff is a lot deeper, you know what I mean? Yeah. The closest I wanted to ask this particular question, why do you think artists like you get overlooked by the mainstream when you're doing the work that you're doing? Artists get overlooked. I don't necessarily, see, this is not from an arrogant place, right? You say artists like you, and I don't feel like it's no artist like me. You know, so when I speak to me specifically, I just think it's only a matter of time. You know what I mean? You got your people that's like legends and it's like, and what they do is so unique and so like in the space of its own that it's only a matter of time before it becomes iconic and probably 50 years from now, people remember like, yo, you remember that era, you know what I'm saying? So I feel like I'm in that space, you know what I'm saying? And now when we talk about conscience and positivity, I think a lot of people are boring, you know what I'm saying? Like when it comes to conscience, you know what I mean? They don't know how to actually make it entertaining, but me specifically, I think it's just only a matter of time. Really good. I love that. Well, amen. Appreciate you stopping by. Yeah. Yo, everybody's yellow paint, y'all go check them out. Start with his videos. If you start with his videos, you gonna wanna go into everything else and just follow him. And we don't say that about a lot of people. Appreciate it. This is yet another episode of No Labels Necessary. 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