 Live from the Mandalay Convention Center in Las Vegas, Nevada, it's theCUBE at IBM Insight 2014. Here are your hosts, John Furrier and Dave Vellante. Okay, welcome back everyone. We are live in Las Vegas for IBM Insight. This is theCUBE. I'm John Furrier with Dave Vellante. When we go out to the field and get distracted by the noise, our next guest is CUBE alum. We have Mr. Walsh here from Catalogic Software, Ed Walsh, former IBM. Welcome back. We've had you on as IBM exec, now CEO of Fast-Growing Company. Welcome back. Thank you very much. So Catalogic Software, tell us what it is. I mean, obviously people are just here in Nevada. There's been some crowd chat. There's some buzz out there, but it's a startup, but a unique start. So quickly explain Catalogic Software. What's it all about? How it came together. Right, so in fact, we're announcing tomorrow our copy data management software platform, but really gets after a key issue about how people are managing their environment. The industry has spent a lot of time, money, and effort to help people build their data, copy the data, replicate their data, back up their data, move it around, both cloud, hybrid, or public in cloud environments. What we do is what you don't have is tools to actually look at what you have, Catalogic and actually how to leverage those data copies. So the next real wave in data management is copy data management in our opinion, which is how do you get visibility of that? How do you get insight in any how you leverage those copies? So you said next wave of data management. You guys call it the third wave. Why is it called the third wave? Give us some color into the third wave. Well, there's a couple of things you can talk about third wave. One is just how you do data protection and copy your environment. So it really started in the day of actually doing backups to servers that didn't really meet the requirements so the industry allowed you to do other ways of copying or replication snapshots or in the infrastructure. I was a CEO of a company called Avamar. So Avamar Data Domain is another repository of data that was replicated. That's still around, right? EMC, it's part of EMC now, right? Yeah, big time. A billion dollar business, yeah. But again, that was kind of the second wave. How do we help out the backup overall? How do you protect your environment and leverage the copies? And then the third wave is really all those copies are unleverageable. You're not able to see them, leverage them. And what we're talking about now is how do you catalog them, get visibility, but most importantly, how do you leverage them? And I'll give you one example, or A example. When you, any- Hold on, just before you get to the example, what does catalog that mean? In a way, is that a replacement of it? So essentially service-oriented catalog is more like that kind of thing where it's a catalog of services? It's actually showing you the catalog or the files themselves. So imagine you download the software agentlessly into your environment. You have copies all over your environment, including your hybrid cloud. How do you just know, one, what you have? Let's say you're about to go to a cloud or hybrid. How do you know what to put in the cloud or what's in the cloud? Files or snapshots or all that different visibility is what you need. Then more importantly, you need the control. You need the ability to actually do automated workflows like test dev, disaster recovery, or analytics. If you don't have those type of copy data management tools, what you end up with is you do some dem data movements. You copy it, you replicate it, you pack it up. In the third wave is everything has to be mountable. You have these copies, how do you leverage them? And give the examples now. Okay, so a perfect example is let's say any enterprise storage you buy from any provider. You use high performance environments. You have efficiency like DD per compression. You do a replication of that environment so you have a secondary copy. Everyone wants more than one copy. But what happens to enterprise, you have a local copy, remote copy, and you do copies of copies. But you never use that second copy. In fact, you purposely build it out, put an expensive controller technology either on your prem or in the cloud. And you literally, hopefully, you never access it whatsoever. And this is what we basically built over the last decade is just these copies upon copies. You're almost over a copy of the environment. What we allow you to do, once you see them, you have visibility to them. You can actually now take control of them. So that second copy, that's on a perfectly good storage rate, now you can use it for test dev or analytics. A use case maybe that plays an insight. IBM, insight would be, let's say you're trying to do an analytic environment and you want to do a 360 view of the client. And you actually have to get after the operational data of, let's say a dozen or 18 different systems. You can either do it the way we do now, which is an retail process, make another copy of your data, send it over the network, cobble it together in a data warehouse, and then get access to it. What we're able to do is literally mount that second copy of your data you already have. It's already high performance and also it's very close to real-time data. In fact, it's what your production environment looked like an hour ago. So I've written about this a little bit and it seems like one obvious use case is backup, using snapshots as maybe a more efficient way to do backups because you've got copy creep, and what I typically would do is just bring in yet another backup appliance, and now I get backup appliance creep. Then replicate that and copy that. So it gets expensive. So the secret sauce, if I understand it, is this catalog technology that gives me visibility and essentially control over my copies. Now, you guys are not the snapshot platform, correct? You're not trying to be that. Like, so there's other guys trying to do that. Actifio, Delfix, they got the full-blown. You're a much more focused and narrow piece of the space, which is that catalog. So how do you leverage that snapshot capability? So I think we're different and actually bring up differentiation where we are. Actually, I think we're broader. Everyone has this copy data problem. You have copies of data, you're not leveraging. They're sitting there idle in your environment. How do you leverage them, either for take less of them and have more operational savings or do more with it in the antler? So what we do is we don't believe you want to replace your environment. You bought your RAID stack, your production storage environment for good reason. You don't want to necessarily replace. I like NetApp, for example. Right, so we're announcing NetApp tomorrow, right? So you already have the environment. You bought it for good reason. It's high performance, it has all these copy servers and snapshots. What we do is we have an agentless platform that allows you to leverage that. No agent. No agent. In fact, you download 15 minutes of VM and what we do is we catalog the VM and VMware environment. It's going to be NetApp and VMware environment and then what we do is allow you to have automated workflows so you leverage it. So now you have those copies. We'll show you how to leverage them for things like DRE, the local or in the cloud. Recovery's easy. In fact, you want to recover from your snapshots. That's the easiest way. The least, it's a big, it's at least hit on the system to do the backup. It's the best backup objective. Fastest, RTO. Recovery time injector, recovery point objective is best in the overall case. What you don't have is a catalog, like you have a backup to understand what you have, make it a process that you can audit and every night you know you have the environment and then move on. But recovery's easy, DR's easy, but then think about all the other reuse you can use. So you're arguing, I think I got this, is you're broader than those other guys because you're not locked into a specific snapshot platform. You can basically work on multiple snapshot platforms. Yeah, what I would say is we're just different. I don't think people want to rip and replace what they have in their infrastructure. And you'll see us broaden our provider base, but I think that's what we're looking at is how do you not make another copy, but how do you, because that's the problem, you keep on making another copy, another copy to get what you need. But in the end, you just need to know what you have as copies. So by going in the environment to an agentless catalog and showing it to you, that's insight in itself. And then let's leverage those perfectly good copies. Application consistent with what production looked like a minute ago or an hour ago. Let's leverage those for other things. And that's what the platform does. Okay, so back up one obvious use case. Let's talk about Test and Dev. You mentioned DR, but let's talk about Test and Dev because that seems to me to be really interesting with the whole, John talks about DevOps all the time, old DevOps culture, right? So how would you help Test and Dev? Okay, so let's say you're in an environment and let's say you are in a more net app environment and the business line unit comes to you and say, listen, I'm going to want to do more like DevOps. I don't want to do the quarterly release. I want to do more agile development and actually do quick releases. In fact, I have one right now. Can you give this particular development environment? It might be 15, 16, 18 servers. Can you take a copy of that and put it over? Today's data. Today's data. And what we're able to do is a little, you see it, you point and click, you're able to provide that on off-box so it does affect production and fence it off and provide it back to the environment. Now once you want to promote that to production, you're able to promote production and now you can have a perfect loop that fits with agile development. Instead of Test Dev being this static environment, you populate once a quarter. By the way, at great costs, both operationally and capex, what we're able to do is literally show you an automated way to leverage what the production environment looked like literally hours ago. Then allow your release, move that to production, work on it, release, move that to production. We give you DevOps on your existing enterprise store. All right, and then once you're done with a copy, you can get rid of it. Either you can promote it and basically it turns into production or you clean it up completely. In fact, because it's a writable snapshot, you can have its own life cycle be so choose. The key thing is you can get the production data quickly, you can refresh those mount points as often as you want. So even though it's space efficient, these things add up. They do, right? Okay. But if you're getting leverage out of the copies and you're taking your classic Test Dev in the enterprises maybe once a quarter, you make it more like a DevOps, development operations. Now, IT is part of the business, actually contributing. You're actually adding value. You're getting what, 30 times probably more releases out to the market. If there's value in releases and value in time to market, you're actually adding business value, but you're basically leveraging the enterprise storage you already bought, you already own, you're already running. We're just giving it an automated way to actually leverage that and do it in an audible way. So the data, it's basically a data catalog, if you will, for backups. What is the ROI type calculation? So you guys run any numbers, do any benchmarking at all? In fact, we work with Vikabond, actually work with, and actually did an analysis, a three-year analysis on the data. So you can say about in an enterprise environment, if you take a backup recovery and running the environment, you can say about 51% of your overall cost. That's just backup, right? Just backup, but if you look at overall, it always seems to be, so it's two things, it falls into three categories. A third of that is clearly backup. Now, what does it mean by backup? Well, once you're using your snapshots, you have a catalog, you can leverage them, and you can show the odors, everything. Just like backup, I'm backing it up, I have it. If something breaks day, you're able to fix it, you can show the odors, is exactly what you're doing. Doing snapshot recovery is the way you want to do it. Tape turns into archive, but guess what happens to the data domains Navmar's the world? If they were just to be a front end of tape, so tape could be an operational recovery mechanism, which you don't want to use anyway, doesn't really meet your SLAs anyway, snapshots do that, all of a sudden tape becomes archive, and Navmar, it doesn't go away immediately, but goes way over time. That's interesting. So you actually were the CEO of Navmar, you sold Navmar to MC, now you're solving this problem. Well, MC's made a lot of money on copies. The whole industry has, it's built upon it. In fact, that's why I'm saying the next real management wave is going to be, okay, you've already made these copies. They're perfectly good, high performance, application-consistent copies, and they're off the production box or off the production site. You've got to leverage it. So the next big thing is show clients how to use more of it. They'll buy more enterprise storage. So you bring up Navmar, and we talked early, right? So that was a little bit of sea change in a smaller industry called backup, but we talked about D-dupe, right? And you were replacing tape, essentially. Well, actually, Navmar was a little different too, because you would deal with it. But essentially the problem you were solving was, tape was hard and slow, and just didn't meet my SLAs. And the value innovation, which we can talk about in the innovation here, and that's how it took off pretty quickly, is simultaneous we can take out cost, and what we can do is D-dupe allowed you to literally change the backup industry. If you didn't have D-dupe within three years, you were out of the backup market, either from appliance or whatnot. Okay, so where do you see this all going? Oh, good point. So just like a value innovation we did for D-dupe, which really changed that market, it was a two-billion dollar market, by the way, it grew to a four and a half billion dollar market, but a lot more value to clients, right, it was with D-dupe. Same thing here. The value innovation is, you already have these copies. You already bought your production environment that does this. We allow you to take out cost and complexity by allowing, you can give me a catalog and automatic workflow so you can leverage it, and then also we allow you to leverage it in different ways. And the real value innovation is, you already have these, use it for recovery. Use it for DR, easy. It's just cheaper, easier to do, better overall metrics, but now we can leverage it for things like analytics, test dev, turns into dev ops, huge value to the overall enterprise, the IT's now part of the overall solution, development and operations. So where this is going is I think it is the next wave as far as data management. In fact, the enterprise storage always has to keep up with how do you add value over commodity storage? And we've seen it constantly, constantly evolve to keep up. The next one is we spent so much time showing you how to copy it and replicate it. The next real ways is show you what you have so you can take advantage of it and then leverage it through automation to leverage it for things like dev ops and analytics, which you can't do from your current environment. Yeah, it's awesome. Thanks for coming on theCUBE. But bottom line is from a big data standpoint, where does all this connect with the big data trend? Well, the key thing is you're always trying to get operational data to populate and to add to your analytics. And you want to do real-time analytics. You don't want to do yesterday's analytics. So what do you do in the, let's say, your environment and you want a 360 view of a client, you want to get data from these 18 different systems, the CRM, the SQL, the web, maybe some, but all these things, how do you get it now? Well, without our solution, the data is sitting there waiting to mount, but what you're doing is you're going out and doing these ETL processes. You're getting these data out of all these little places and it's not full fidelity. You have to negotiate, give me this slice of information and it comes to you typically in a batch form. So you're feeding the big data platforms. What we do is we go from being something that's last night's batch, we allow you to mount the last good snapshot, get full fidelity up and running in a snap. Now it's real-time analytics. So higher quality data with the right data at the right time. And you already have this there. So this is the catalog type computing model, push button, all that good stuff. And the automation on top, correct. Catalogic, hence the name, catalogic, geniuses you guys are. Okay, awesome. The name itself, okay. This is theCUBE, we're here live in Las Vegas. Inside the social lounge, Inside Go. This is theCUBE. I'm John with Dave here. We're thankful to be here. Thanks for the IBM social media operation for doing an awesome job. Ed Wall, CEO of Catalogic. Thanks for joining us. We'll be right back after this short break.