 So I'll start with my experience before I came to Trent. I spent about 20 years working for my community here in Alderville First Nation and the beginning of the program came out of the impetus of students that were over-identified. So what that means is they would be flagged by a classroom teacher as needing extra services. So they would need extra reading support and a lot, a lot to quantify being identified. So having special education services ties a student to required services. So they'd have to have a resource teacher and some kind of support within the classroom. So a range of services that might be offered. As a result of that in Alderville, a disproportionate amount of our students were being identified beyond 20%. So that was significant and it caught the attention of the First Nation because at the same time while they were being required to have this extra service, the tuition rate was three times what was being logged for students that weren't identified. So it became a situation where the band was not really, they weren't really trusting why this was happening and they didn't really feel that there was an aggressive enough plan for the students like why this was happening, what supports were available, all of those kind of questions were basically unanswered. So what they did was they put together a pilot project to have someone specifically look at what was happening with the students. So taking a look at ex-student and finding out what was the nature of their learning needs. So that's where I came in. I was hired to do that and it became obvious really, really quite quickly that students, because I had worked previously with the school board as a special education resource teacher, it became obvious that these were students that just were struggling with reading oftentimes. I would say it was more often reading. And when you looked a little closer into the school, the school that they were attending, there really wasn't anything significant that was offered. So they might get an extra 40 minutes every second day. This is what was happening. So for three times the tuition rate for an extra 40 minutes a day when they should have already been receiving that seem to, it was very troublesome for the First Nation. Let me put it that way. So from there they wanted to take a really good look at what was happening with students. And once I was there for a little while, we started to think about, okay, so now we're seeing this. We know, yes, the students are struggling. What can we do about that? So coming from the background of having a special education background, that was one of the first things I wanted to do was to try to initiate some kind of support for the students. So that was what I was doing. And it was curious at the very beginning of all of this. When Alderville decided that they wanted to investigate this further, it did not land very favorably with the school board. They were very, they put their hands up right away and they were not interested in a partnership. So that was, this is, we're going back 20 years pre reconciliation. So it made quite a difference because the relationship was not there. It did not exist nor did the school board and the staff and oftentimes teachers, classroom teachers, and it went all the way up to the administrators of the board were not interested in the partnership. In fact, I would say that they looked upon it as, you know, we've got this figured out. We've got it figured out. We really don't need your involvement. So when I, initially, when I began in this role, it felt very much like we were intruding. We were intruding into areas where we were told that our students were floundering. And yet our interest was just not welcome. So that was, that was where I started. So it was a little bit rocky trying to, trying to develop a relationship with the school board. It took time. It wasn't something that happened right away. And it took the support of our band too. So our band was very interested, our First Nation was very interested in meeting with the whoever was involved with First Nation programming or education within the school board. So it took getting them to the table because we were stopped right at the school. If I were to go into the school and try to meet with students, I had, I had all kinds of obstacles. So that partnership, curiously, it just, it seemed so such a moment like a mountainous thing to try to achieve to work on this relationship with the school board. So that's where it started. And then slowly as the school board started to be warm up a little bit, I would say, and then we went through a couple of principles and some of the classroom teachers had moved on or decided that they were retiring, the atmosphere started to change a bit. And this is still preconceived prereconciliation, but it did start to change where we were more often invited to the table. So anyway, that's, that's the context of where it started. By the time I finished, I'm glad to say that I, you know, having the perspective of looking at it 20 years in, you can kind of see, you can really see the growth from the beginning 20 years to the end. And towards the end of my assignment before I left, we were now in a new phase of reconciliation. So it really had quite changed where not only could I go into the school to meet with our students, I was able to invite a team of support. So I was able to hire EA's and that's a whole other story because there was all kinds of resistance to that idea. But eventually we had our own place within the school. So we had our own space where we could bring our students and offer additional support if they missed a test or if they needed a little bit extra reading or whatever. So it became, it became a part of the school environment where not only where we invited in, we became a part of the school environment too. So so the staff that were able to work with our students became very integral to the school fabric. I found like they were, you know, one lady in particular was, she became like the staff, unofficial staff photographer. And, and it just, it was interesting to see that change. And we also had our own space and the same thing happened at the high school. It's still a work in progress, I would say. But by the time I left, the high school students also had their own space in the high school. So it was very small. It wasn't anything really grand, but it really was quite dynamic. And that made a huge difference with our students to know that they had people from their own community in the school every day to support them. It made a huge difference with them because all kinds of things can happen with students day to day. You just never know, especially in high school, there's all kinds of drama with high school students and for them to have that person there whom they could rely on or space where they could go to cool off or to just get a little added support made a huge difference in their day. So anyways, that's the context of where I started it. So reflecting on that, I come to realize over the years, it took a little while because I was very much trained in the Western way of education. I went through those ranks. But I began to really see over the years that our students really responded to having Indigenous people there to support them and also to have their culture acknowledged as well. So the more it was acknowledged, the more inclusion of language, it seemed the students felt that they were more welcome in the school as well. And that's kind of a common theme. If you go back and you talk to some of the parents of those students, they quite often didn't have that experience. They had one that was where they really felt fractured from the school environment and that their home community was not respected in any real meaningful way. So reflecting on the students over time, students are typically assessed in grade three, grade six, and then of course in high school. And we were able to see our students were doing better. I mean there's still areas where they were struggling. There's definitely, that is really quite a reality, I would say with our students. But at the same time, I noticed that it was oftentimes students that are rurally situated, such as we are here, the students might be struggling more. And I think that's because it's a rural school. So that means by the time they get to grade seven and eight, that grade seven and eight teacher is teaching everything. So that makes it a challenge, particularly if you have a range of needs within your classroom. So our students were, I would say on par, they could do better. But we're talking about the provincial test here. So that's always like, I don't know, that's up for debate, just how much they are learning. Because sometimes I certainly saw it over the years, the classrooms that did really well on the provincial test, the teachers were teaching to that test almost all year they were preparing for that test. So is that really a reflection of how much they know? Or is it a reflection of how well they are prepared for a test, one test? And the teachers kind of have an idea what's on the test. So I mean, they don't know the actual questions, but they have a pretty good idea. So I think it could be, I know a lot of teachers took pride in having high results. So that would trump other things going on in the room too. If you're really teaching strongly to test a classroom teacher's day is really quite busy with a lot of tasks. And perhaps cultural training, that would be one of the ones to go. So but other ways that we could tell that it was, you know, the success of our program was, A, the attendance. So students were turning up in the resource rooms in the schools and also in our after school programs too. So that's off reserve. Sorry, that's on reserve. So the schools, I guess I should just digress for a second. So our students typically are in the provincial school. So that means that they're in with all the other students and we don't have our on reserve school. So the students are pretty well with their counterparts all going right from primary up to high school. So that's the role of education in our community. We don't have our own school and that may factor differently with other communities. But we do have an after school program where we were very aware of what was going on in the classroom and it was an extension after school. So we would have this homework assistance or help them work on something or they could be working on computers because not all families had a computer at that time and maybe even still now. So that was going on. And then at the same time, we were trying to incorporate more of our community in the after school program because we just didn't want to serve because it started to feel that way where we're serving the teachers. We're helping them get the tasks done in their classroom. And that that that's fine because certainly parents want that too. But at the same time, it wasn't meeting the needs of what we wanted in the community, you know, that they really felt engaged with what any kind of cultural activities, language, you know, there's there's a lot of other things that we could do to reconcile them better to their communities. So that was another focus. But our students were pretty well, you know, attended like they would arrive and they would be a part of the whatever activity we had. And it was consistent from year to year. So they come from September until the end of the year. And they it was it was very much a family atmosphere. So the the students felt very safe there. And we had this continuity. I thought that was great from school to after school, because all our students were bused for the most part. So that meant that when they were dropped off at school, the parents were disconnected with what was going on in the classroom, because just the activity that goes on when students are arrive in the morning at school, there just wasn't usually that that opportunity to meet with the teachers and discuss. And oftentimes when there was a meeting, it was usually not on the best terms like something had happened, there was some kind of crisis. And so that's not the best way to engage families and teachers putting them together to develop this relationship when there's some kind of crisis happening. That's so I'm pleased to say that part of our role was to connect those two communities to the school community and the family community. Like we were kind of like a nice little bridge. And we would provide that extension of what happened at school. And we always knew what was going on, you know, if the child had a good day or you know, if they you just knew. And the same thing with the community, we knew what was happening as well, if there was some kind of crisis with the family or, you know, we were aware. So we would provide that nicely is on between the two communities. So I really feel that that's one of the anecdotal, I guess you could say evaluation that was really strong. And the community would probably say that as well. And the school came to feel that as well. The school came to truly value the contribution of Alderville staff that were there, because that was a way for them to bridge into our community, which is difficult for a Western educator to understand what goes on in individual communities, they just really don't understand. And I think a lot of them are, you know, they really are nervous about making mistakes. And also they are really not sure how to navigate that. So so it's nice to have this other entity that that kind of makes that a little more natural. So that was one of the ways that anecdotally, I'd say that it really you could tell it was working because it was providing that connection there, helping develop and strengthen those relationships. Talking in terms of numbers are if you were to ask our education manager, how well our students do, while we've had this conversation, so I'm really quite aware that our stats are really favorable in terms of our graduation rates. Our students tend to graduate some a little slower than others, they might take more than the four years, they might take five. But for the most part, our students were there was a high success rate for graduation. And then students moving on to post secondary. And then again, they tended to do, well, they're not 100%. I won't characterize it that way. But I would say our students were successful in the Western system. So that's good. The the other area, though, that we were a little bit more concerned about was their, their community, their indigenous knowledge, their language skills, and their their Anishinaabe Mullen. That's weak, I would have to say that's very weak. And I wondered sometimes if that was the compromise that we made, that while we were, you know, working so hard to make all these other to improve our stats or graduation rates, and, you know, having students prepared for post secondary, we were proud of those numbers. But at the same time, there was there seemed to be almost a cost to it. And I've come to, you know, as I've gone on into now, I'm in my PhD program at Trent. And I've had a little bit of distance and I can kind of see from a bit of a gap that I think that that was a bit of a compromise. I don't know how to fix that because I don't have those those the indigenous knowledge and the language myself. I'm trying hard to do that to fix that and within myself. But, but we do really need to, I think in some way, think about this a little bit deeply, deeper about how we can not make that sacrifice. How is it we can have both? Because if you talk to the parents, the parents certainly want to have, and I understand this, I have two grown adult children as well. And you want them to find their place in the world. You want them to figure out what their skills are and to, you know, take that as far as they can go. But you also want them to walk with who they are, like to understand where they come from. And I think that's the that's going to be the challenge for our students. I think it's relatively easy to fix these other things, like to provide the supports to, you know, to, because those people are, there's a lot of people around that can help them with that. When it comes to our language speakers and our knowledge holders, there's not so many. And it's a, it's a, I think that's a little bit more of a challenge how we could do both. Parents will want their children prepared for the next step, but I do believe they want the other thing. And I don't think we're quite there yet. Indigenous education would be what I was referring to. So having a better handle on your language. So rather than Doug Williams, one of our mentors in the PhD program is the Curve Lake elder and language holder. And he would be a person that is very aware of this conversation. And I've had, I've been privy to some of it with him. And for him, it's like, it's not just learning a couple of basic commands, being able to count to 10 or, or being able to, you know, name a few isolated words. Language, language is really quite a complicated and complex business. Like it's just not something that happens with a couple of classes. So if we are going to have anything that approaches fluency, it's going to take a huge commitment from the school. And I don't think the school is ready to take that on, honestly, because that means that they're going to be teaching in that language. And I don't think any of our schools are prepared to teach in Anishinaabe Moan. So what does that mean? I don't know. I don't know what that means. Maybe it means that we've got to do it ourselves. Because I don't think the school will only take it so far. And I feel right now they do offer Anishinaabe Moan. I think it's 20, 20 minutes when they're in grade one and two, like 20 minutes per day. And then I think it moves up to like 40 minutes every second day or, but it's not enough. And it's, it's nowhere near getting them to fluency. And then when we talk about the cultural piece too, if we're talking about, if we're teaching our students according to the seven grandfather teachings, and then are we teaching about competition, you know, a lot of educations about competition and what mark we got and how we measure up and, and all of this. So Indigenous education doesn't naturally coexist in our Western education system, our Western education model. There's just really a lot of areas that just don't line up. They don't partner very well, you know, the idea of, of competition and, and, you know, knowledge, knowledge that we get to pretty well own once we get an A. It's, it's not quite understood the same way. And then at the other, at the end of it is what is unique to Alderville in its culture that our students need to hold on to. So we were, we were traditionally people that harvested wild rice is, are those the things that we teach our children? Trapping, hunting, like to make sure that, you know, that they could be, they could be people of the land again if they ever had to be, because we don't know the nature of this world where we're going. Before we go there, I'd like to, I'd like to have another word on reconciliation. So, so I was within my role in Alderville when the whole idea of reconciliation started to take root. And I noticed a few things with it that were good, and then other things that were concerning. I think it was good that there was an effort by the school. And I would say even sometimes the school boards were ahead of the university and the college system from what I'm seeing right now, like we seem to be a little slower. But I noticed that there was an effort at least, you know, and it was from the top down that they, they were grappling with the idea of what to do with reconciliation. And there was, you know, multiple meetings and committees and, you know, trying to get the right people to the table and all of that. I think there was an interest in it. But sometimes I felt it was misdirected. For instance, there was a huge push for students to self-identify. And I often wondered, like, why would that be important? Why would the students need to self-identify? Because it's not necessarily the need of students that need this education, although they can be a benefit, it's a benefit of them as well. But it seemed to suggest to me that they were only interested in possibly directing their resources to First Nations students that were identified. So that it seemed to, that was kind of the momentum. And yet, if it's true reconciliation, that's not the target group to be reaching. The target group is our non-native population. And so I wasn't really, you know, that direction. And they were really, you know, the school board is a huge body. And it's a very conservative body too. It's run by conservative people, teachers that have very conservative and Western education. Oftentimes, they are the best teachers themselves. So I wonder how well they have the ability to connect with students that are from a different background, poor backgrounds, possibly students that are just really so much different than themselves, because they were the achievers often. And they're the ones that knew the system well. And yet, here they are working with students that are just not. So how well they need that educational training. And yet, I've seen a lot of teachers that were, their hearts were in it. I wouldn't say that they weren't. They were believing what they were doing. And I would say sometimes, for the most part, teachers get in there to try to do well. And but sometimes that attitude is not always worked well in communities. They're coming with that going to save, going to save this native, this native group or these students and frustrated easily when it doesn't go that way. And quick to return the blame, the blame. I always noted that the blame, if there was something going wrong with the student, that was the kids or the family or the community, something was going on. They weren't supporting the teachers. But when the teachers, when the students were doing really well, who do you think own that? That was the school system. So, so there's some changes that need to happen. And I'm thinking about reconciliation now. I'm at Trent working as a indige one thousand and one seminar leader. And so this is the first year where students, all of them that are entering Trent have to have that required half course. And that's, it's interesting because we're having a lot of, we have international students and we have students from Ontario and beyond. But it's still, it's still worthy of question how many students actually end up at Trent that have very little background in this. And we've been talking about this for a while, reconciliation's in the news. It's in our, apparently it's, you know, at the board level, it should trickle down to the classrooms. But I've always noticed though, that classrooms are entirely a teacher's domain. When that door shuts, they teach what they want. And so we need to have teachers that are on board that understand First Nation communities and that are committed to it. And I don't think that that's necessarily their, their, their ball of wax, you know, and that's why I still think that, I don't really believe I'm saying this, you know, at age 60, because I always thought I was in that system where, you know, we tried to, we tried to be in the middle and serve our nation in the provincial system. And I'm moving further away from that now. And I truly am. I'm thinking now maybe it's time as we get these settlements to start thinking about what we can do in our own communities. That doesn't mean that we've abandoned academic, you know, learning topics and subjects and math and all of that. No, not at all. I don't see why we have to really make a choice, but I don't really trust, not that I don't trust, I just don't think it's practical that a huge system such as our education system is going to be that committed to our needs. I don't think it's their role. And I don't think it's their, I don't think they're that interested in it. So Indigenous education, if we would like to see it include more language, more culture, more regional understanding of the context that the students are in, it might require that First Nations really develop what they want in their own school system and decide what it is that they want in the curriculum. Curriculum is always huge. What is it that we're teaching students? And some of it, some of it is necessary and worthwhile. And then other times I'm just wondering, like, why are we teaching this? How is this going to benefit students? So the context of our world is changing. Our environment is changing. We really need to be focused on other things. And maybe it's time to let certain ideas go. So 10 years from now, what it will be and what I think it should be are two different things. I think we'll probably be still in a provincial system because that belief is, even in our own community, the belief is that they do know what they're doing. They've been trained. These are people that are, you know, trying to make inroads that they're developing these partnerships and I was part of this. So there will be that, that trust, I guess, in a sense, at least in that part that they understand the process of education better than Indigenous people. So I think that's probably where we will be. So no matter what happens, we still really need to advocate for as much presence in our schools, which I don't, I don't really, I don't think that's a mistake that we really need to fight for those, not fight the wrong word, but I mean, we really need to advocate for Indigenous students that are in the classroom so that we don't lose them. So wherever they are, we need, they need the support. They need our support. Our knowledges have are very complex, rich and elegant. I would be another word that I would use, like we have, if we're following our teachings doesn't mean that we are. Just because we're Indigenous, this is one thing John borrows, really, he articulates this well that just because by virtue of being Indigenous doesn't mean that we necessarily follow our teachings. But if we're following our teachings, our students are, they're more grounded, they're kinder, they're nicer people, they're more in touch with their environment. These are the things that are of value. I'd like to see more of that adapted to our educational system where it's less about quantifying a certain amount of knowledge that has to be communicated by such and such a date and then possessing it and being in competition with other students. I don't know if our world is really going to benefit from that kind of a person, not, not the world that we're living in now. We'll see what the world looks like in 10 years from now. What's that going to look like in 10 years from now? Our world, yeah. And then our education's got to, you know, match or keep pace with that too. And I'm always surprised at just even the technological change. I've been, I'm nearing 60 and what it looked like when I was a young student, two different worlds. So, but at the same time, our knowledges are relevant in any context in what we live in. So, I would like to see more of it in the provincial system if that's the system we're in. And if that's not the system and we're lucky enough to have our own schools that really reflect a lot of who we are, fabulous.