 Good afternoon everybody and welcome to today's webinar Express driving competitive advantage through sustainability organised by CIM Midlands. Before we get started I'd just like to go over a few things so you know how the event will work and how to participate in the Q&A session. The presentation will last for approximately 30 to 35 minutes followed by a short 10 to 15 minutes Q&A session. You'll be able to post any questions you have by clicking on the question mark which you'll see on the right hand side of your screen if watching on a laptop or along the top or bottom if you're watching on a tablet or smartphone. You can send in your questions at any time during the presentation and will attempt to answer as many as we can during the Q&A at the end. If you'd like to share your thoughts about today's webinar on social media you can use the hashtag CIM Events. If you'd like to download a copy of the presentation slides you'll find them in the handout section along with a list of additional reading resources which complement today's topic. We'll also be recording the webinar which will be available to watch again in a few days time on the CIM Midlands regional web page and CIM YouTube channel. The links for both you'll see along the bottom of your screen. So I'd now like to hand you over to Alex Glenn, Director of Catalystic Consulting who is our guest speaker today. Over to you Alex. Hello, my name is Alex Glenn. I'm a Marketing Consultant and I run a business called Catalystic Consulting which is focused on helping brands to grow at pace, mainly focused on health and sustainability drivers. In terms of today's agenda, I thought it would be useful just to kind of talk through a few key terms of reference and then really to look at the key shifts that are happening from sustainability perspective and then move on to look at the shifts in consumer behavior and what is driving sustainability from a consumer point of view. And then moving on from there, really taking a step back and looking at the process with which different brands have embraced sustainability over time so that we can see the variances that they have and the different approaches. And with a view to that, then taking a step back again and looking at what the future may hold and really what it means to us as marketers. So to kick off just with some terminology, if we look at the CIM definition of marketing, it's the management process responsible for identifying, anticipating and satisfying consumer requirements profitably. And if we take the definition of competitive advantage to mean what makes a customer choose your business over one another, I think there's an important frame of reference here to kind of highlight that sustainability becomes more important within society and therefore more important for consumers. Whereas marketers can drive competitive advantage by being aware of those drivers and trying to meet them with the products and goods and services that we offer. So then just kind of move on to the shift that's happening from a sustainability perspective. I think it's clear now from what you hear from politicians in the media that we do now live in a climate emergency and it really is an issue of our time. So a big driver of this is that the UN recognised that by 2050 we do need to manage climate change to below two degrees Celsius and preferably to about 1.5 degrees. It's covered in media. It's covered in through politics internationally. But also consumers are starting to recognise that it's certainly an issue of our time for the people that are on this webinar. And if you think pre-pandemic, especially for anybody that has children, by 2050 climate change will be an issue of their generation. And it's for this reason that if you think before the pandemic, the likes of Gretz Thunberg, school striking, was starting to emerge in society as people increasingly educated themselves around the drives of sustainability and started to recognise that more needed to be done moving forwards, which kind of led to this social shift. And to that point, the UN have really driven a lot of the focus on sustainability. There's an organisation called IPCC, which is the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, to measure what the climate is doing and what they believe the climate will do in the future. And that has guided a lot of UN thinking around how to manage the inputs into the planet so that moving forward, we can avoid catastrophic climate change issues. Now, traditionally, the ethics have clearly made sense for sustainability. But increasingly, the economics of sustainability are making sense for countries, companies and consumers alike. And this becomes a really important point and really kind of a nub of the presentation, which is the economics that are driving the choices that investors make are very much focused on the fact that driving behaviour against sustainable objectives is a more profitable way to run organisations and to return on investment. And increasingly, investment communities are proving out the return on investment of driving sustainable behaviour. And what's behind that, as we'll see shortly, is that consumers are increasingly educated about the issues that we're facing into as a global society and therefore making choices around consumer products, goods and services that will impact the planet and generally choosing to try to choose products that are better for the environment. And then from this, the UN have also developed the UN Sustainable Development Goals. And what they seek to do is provide blueprints to achieve a better and more sustainable future for all. And they're worth looking at in a little more detail. They're very broad reaching in terms of their scope and there are 17 in total. But if we pick out just a few like gender equality, affordable, clean energy, sustainable cities and communities, climate action, life below water, life on land. I think you'd agree that you'll start to see media coverage in papers, on the news, documentaries that are bringing these issues to life and really starting to educate consumers about the problems that we're facing into. And because of this awareness of these challenges, consumers are starting to make more choiceful decisions. And it's for this reason that there's the opportunity for companies to drive competitive advantage by being more sustainable in their outlook. And it's really starting to shift industries across multiple industries. Leaders are starting to develop sustainable business models that will help to achieve the UN targets. You can see it across FMCG and the energy sector and the transport sector. And further on in the presentation will come to bring this to life a little more. But the question I guess is, well, why is this important for you as a marketer? And if we look at the Paris agreement in 2015, the aim of international governments was to come together and try to limit global warming well below two degrees, but preferably below 1.5. And as I said, the IPCC measure this on a regular basis. But I think the quote from Marc in a week earlier this year really brings it to life. The obligations for how businesses report environmental, social and governance issues were laid out in the Paris agreement. And clearly marketers who won't stand out careers in the next decade will be those who develop these skills. So let's then just kind of move on to understand what is happening from a consumer perspective. I think there's no doubt now that consumer data every kind of week, few days is increasingly showing that consumers are moving towards more awareness of the issues that the planet faces, but also trying to make better decisions. So if we take this report from the independence based on one poll data survey, 54% of consumers feel joy when they do their bit for the environment. They quote 81% of the UK have become increasingly concerned about environmental issues with a third saying that there's a need for brands and businesses to be more transparent in terms of the sustainability of their products and services. If we look at internet retailing, this survey highlighted that 80% of consumers are concerned about the future of the environment. And then if we look at this piece of coverage in circular based on an EOM report, it states that 80% of consumers plan to buy from businesses who have made an effort to be more environmentally friendly. So across different industries and sectors, the data is showing that consumers are increasingly moving towards more sustainable choices. And now just kind of take a little bit of a look at the FMCG sector. If we take carbon as an example, the traditional media reporting of carbon emissions has been very much focused on the energy sector and the transport sector. But you can see in this chart that actually whilst energy is the biggest contributor, food is the second biggest in terms of carbon emissions and transport is smaller. And increasingly over the last four to five years, media coverage has started to highlight that our food systems do have an impact on our planet and carbon emissions and carbon usage will increasingly become a debating point for the food systems that we have and therefore increasingly food companies are starting to think about the products that they sell, their impact on the planet and also starting to communicate with consumers, things like carbon footprinting. So you see that in a lot of plant based sectors and it's starting to roll out across different categories in store with the ambition that food systems that we have have less of an impact on our planet long-term. And then if we kind of take some data around where consumers heads are at when it comes to diet, this chart highlights choices that consumers make from a dietary perspective. And as you can see here, trying to lead a healthy lifestyle is a big driver. But actually second to that is trying to make the right choice from an environmental point of view. And I think what's interesting within this chart is that it's clearly where the growth of behaviour is coming from as well. And if you dissected this into sub 35 consumers and those consumers who are over 35, traditionally you would have seen the data highlighting that sub 35 consumers are driving this trend. But increasingly over time, what you're seeing is that the trend is being driven also by over 35s. So there's this movement of the mass markets, understanding the issues at play and starting to make choices based on that behaviour. And I think it's fair to say that the way that people are buying is also changing for good if you excuse the pun. There is certainly a theme around conscious consumption. I think the quote here is from somebody at Innocent that highlights that the way we vote for the world we live in is through the products that we buy. And consumers are starting to understand and think through how our products are sourced, the impact on their family's health, the impact on our planet and also what products say about me. So almost social conscience around the goods and services that people are buying. So it's probably worth just pausing a moment to think about the issues that that that digs up in line with the terminology that we referenced at the start. If marketing is defined as the management process responsible for identifying, anticipating and satisfying consumer requirements, possibly, I think it's fair to say that at a very top line level between international governments, there is a focus on sustainable behaviours to protect the planet for all of our future. And that's playing into the policies that governments have at country level and also the investment community recognising that there is need to invest in more sustainable propositions moving forwards. I think if you can then take the competitive advantage definition around what makes consumer choose your business over one another and think about that framing it in terms of consumer behaviour, we can start to see that consumer behaviour is shifting to more sustainable behaviours. And therefore the ability of you as a marketer to drive competitive advantage by framing your products and services around doing the right thing from a sustainability point of view not only makes sense for our planet, but makes sense for organisations to drive competitive advantage. So having looked through that, it's probably useful to then look at how brands have embraced sustainability to drive competitive advantage over time. And I think a useful way to put some context into this is to effectively use the product diffusion curve where we look at those who are innovators, the disruptors and then the early and late majority. So it was interesting in the 80s and 90s that a number of brands had sustainability locked in as a function of their product offering. So if you look at Alper Owen, Plant Based Milk, born from a plant based meat perspective and then the likes of Prius, they're all focusing on a product proposition that was really inherent to what they did based on a view that sustainability would be a big issue of our time and therefore trying to go about fixing it. And if you look at publications like Metropolis that were starting to talk about the seeds of sustainability within the building industry, you could see that this was going cross sector and the likes of Ecotricity starting to disrupt a very established traditional energy sector through more natural sources of energy. So you kind of had these innovators who were a little left field versus the mainstream, but certainly focused from a product point of view about what they did. What then happened is a series of disruptors came into the market and really started speaking a very proud way about the impacts of what they could do with sustainability. And this really then started to challenge the market and challenge consumer thinking about what sustainability could do. And also drove a real pride in sustainability. I think Tesla is a very good example. Rather than trying to compete with the main car market on price, they purposely positioned at a premium price point and also drove the aspiration of the brand, something that hadn't traditionally happened and certainly not in the car market. And through doing that, they were able to out position their competitors around the future of the industry. And it's interesting over the last few years to see just how many car manufacturers have recognised that they do now need to shift rather than managing this client actually positively encouraging more sustainable thinking and movement to different forms of transport. If you look at Patagonia, the clothing brand, a very similar situation whereby they targeted a more premium shopper based on the ethics of sustainability but made that a very engaging proposition using challenging behaviour and marketing strategies to disrupt the fashion industry and really to raise questions about what happens within the fashion market. I think the Guardian is another great example from a media perspective certainly in terms of coverage of plant-based foods. There was really no talk about it pre-2014 where the Guardian and the BBC led the charge was around encouraging people to debate the impacts of carbon on the planet and also the food systems in place heroing that as a theme through their publication and encouraging other media outlets to ask similar questions. And then if you look at that plant-based market, Oakley, Beyond Meat, really taking very challenging positions and questioning people about their very ingrained behaviours of consumption Oakley with lines like milk for humans, Beyond Meat really kind of taking on the meat industry and arguing that there's a different way to work to eat protein and both of those companies financially have done very well Oakley indeed investing in the Super Bowl breaks recently to drive awareness of their brand but really kind of highlight how mainstream plant-based eating is now. If you look at Greta Thunberg's approach it was a very different approach from a sustainability point of view around using children whose future will be impacted by this I'm really kind of inciting people to speak up and to act in terms of things like school strikes so that adults recognise that they need to go further from a policy and social perspective and then I thought it would be interesting to take an example of a brand from the Midland CIM unit and Spendeck is a really good example of this so if you look at their proposition it's the property sector company who are focused on making healthy buildings recognising that the environments in which we work as well when we move out of lockdown really do have an impact on our wellbeing in line with the sustainability of our goals but also in terms of the impacts on the planet and therefore using more sustainable approaches to the property sector really sets them apart within the region and then just again taking a step into what's happening these days with the early or late majority and I think it's fair to say that the multinational global companies are really starting to develop propositions, albeit not all of their proposition to recognise that the direction of travel is in terms of more sustainable behaviour in the education sector there is education for sustainable development recognising that the next generation needs to understand the need for more sustainable behaviour if you look at Adidas then already they're starting to launch parts of their range that are more sustainable a very strong group in terms of plastic is a problem and a commitment to use 100% recycled polyester by 2024 interestingly kind of doing the paviation plastic and highlighting that through use of celebrity ambassadors and sports stars to make it more mainstream I think Albert is a very good example within our industry a production company who help to drive sustainability through production be it TV advertising or the making of TV and film and then Costa Rica you know for some time now have focused their tourism industry on sustainability and it's a very different approach to the travel industry but certainly encouraging people to travel in a more sustainable way McDonald's at the moment are testing McPlants mainly in Nordics I'm really focusing on how they can meet reduce moving forwards having recognised the need for more varied product offerings and then Unilever interestingly have committed to a billion pounds worth of sales by 2025 that are based on plant based products and really embedding sustainability in their future purpose and Dave's stating that their purpose is to make sustainable living commonplace and it's why that they come to work I think Guinness is a unique example whereby they're highlighting social responsibility and you know working with the Portland group in a very interesting creative way to see a beer brand advertising water is shocking but to see Guinness branding it to my mind is really really clever and highlighting that sometimes less is more in moderating your drinking is a socially responsible way to approach the market but doing it in an engaging creative way that can be earnable by a brand and I think that highlights just how there is opportunity to drive competitive advantage in this space and then I think we've gone to the likes of Google if you look at their commitment to office building in Kings Cross really thinking through the whole experience of how you operate in an office and how the office can benefit the planet as well so you're starting to see these multinationals really move into the sustainability space so I think winners in this new world are really kind of embedding sustainable development goals into their purpose and operations and in so doing that will drive competitive advantage because it will need consumer needs and you're seeing this through all aspects of a business so it's not only in sourcing, it can be in production it can be in consumption of the products but also thinking it through to obsolescence or indeed reuse and the ability for marketers to kind of think through how it impacts consumer generally but also how the business can help the consumer through all elements of the business is a very useful one and the successful brands will be those that establish their role in this global challenge to achieve responsible, sustainable and profitable growth so I think there's clearly a timeline as to how sustainability is developed it's then interesting to kind of look at what the future may hold and I think the main theme here will be that sustainability is here to stay and increasingly firms will base themselves around the sustainability development goals to drive competitive advantage recently in Singapore, cell-based meat was approved whereby people are taking meat cells and then creating meat replication which will be more efficient and have less impact on the planet there are very interesting biotechnology firms like Zimogen over in the US who are starting to put together AI and biology to try and understand how they can create products from scratch without using base materials which again will reduce impacts on the planet but also create new opportunities in terms of products if you look at the aviation industry they're starting to understand how solar panels can play their part all these very early stages and in cruise line industries they're looking at how they can reduce the impact of carbon through aerodynamics so you start to see it across different industries plug power is another interesting business who provide hydrogen and already within the UK there are tests going on from a hydrogen perspective in terms of all boilers using hydrogen in the future and likewise in the car industry hydrogen looks like it will be a future fuel in terms of use so I think there's a positivity around not only the issues in play but also the human race's ability to work with those challenges and try to solve them as we go so therefore to meet the kind of UN sustainable development goals I think then it's worth kind of just taking a step back and saying well that's all very well but how's the marketer should I consider sustainability and there are probably a series of themes that might act as a nice jumping off point albeit not an extensive list firstly it might be worth in your business doing sustainability order thing to understand where you are today and then prioritise opportunities and challenges to focus on moving forwards it may also be worth thinking about how your brands appear to consumers so if consumers are wanting more sustainable options is there a way that you can develop your propositions to create winning routes and reframe your brand for long term growth ideally linking those into the sustainable development goals I think there's also a point there around how you translate the science of sustainability which is quite complex at times into very simple consumer benefits I think there's also a point around plotting out the short term versus the long term so how you may need short term communication solutions to get your house in order for the longer term and that's something that sometimes concerns marketers but actually increasingly where people are getting to is kind of a progress not perfect approach so they're highlighting to consumers their direction of travel but recognise they can't do everything overnight from a messaging point of view clearly there's sometimes a need to craft responses to thorny issues that you are equipped to talk passionately to consumers about and the benefits that your brand can deliver so again framing things in the right way moving strategy into action driving pace into markets so that you can drive competitive advantage and how you encourage your organisation to change routes and branch can often be difficult as a marketer but certainly something that by living the consumer in your business becomes a very powerful thing to do and then finally there's a point around just connecting with the right people who speak the same language increasingly non-government organisations are fantastic at helping your brands and businesses work in a collaborative manner to reach a solution whereby you're heading in the direction of travel they want you to working with agencies and other marketers to speak very simple language and then also aligning on your direction of travel with your customers as well so that they're aware of where you're headed so to summarise we clearly live in climate emergency and countries, companies and consumers alike are recognising the need to deliver against the UN sustainability development goals I think through this deck we can see that there's a shift happening when it comes to sustainability this being led by the UN orchestrated into governmental level and then countries companies and consumers alike are increasingly aware of these issues and consumers are making purchasing decisions based upon them and I think as marketers we need to be aware of the drivers of the societal shift and the fact that consumers are then making these choices increasingly companies and brands are delivering competitive advantage by delivering against the UN sustainability development goals and embedding them in their business and as mass market understanding of these issues grows mass market demand and therefore the ability to service these needs and drive competitive advantage for you as a marketer and to that final point you as a marketer can help this happen quicker and I think there's an importance in this whereby working as a broader marketing community if we can all drive against sustainable development goals actually there can be a huge amount of positivity and progress in this space so just finally a few recommendations as to how to find out more here are a few great places to go to I think the main point would be there is so much information at your fingertips these days that once you kind of get into reading and educating yourself more about it the options are endless Attenborough clearly is a great source of information and has captured the imagination of certainly our nation but also globally with this life on our planet documentary with Netflix purposefully encouraging people to globally to think about these issues there are very interesting food documentaries such as what the health books around how bad are bananas which is the calm foot printing of everything by Mike Berners-Lee and a fantastic read and then the likes of an inconvenient truth which really kind of highlights the scale of the issues we face and if you really want to blow your hair back then David Wallace Wells is the place to go to because some of the scenarios that are scoped out within the impact our behaviours are having today are quite scary I guess what is reassuring is there are ways to solve those with the behaviours that we have So overall I hope that it's fairly clear how sustainable decisions can help to drive competitive advantage and deliver consumer needs at the same time from fantastic marketing If you need to get in contact with me Alex Green at LinkedIn or alternatively my email is at the bottom of this presentation so I'll thank you there That's great, thanks Alex So we're now going to have a short 10-15 minute Q&A session You can still submit any questions you may have for Alex and we'll try to get through as many as we can and just a little reminder that if you're enjoying today's webinar and want to post on social media you can use the hashtag cimevents We've got quite a few questions that have come through So the first question for you Alex is have you any advice for brands that are already focusing on sustainability messaging but so are most of their competitors too How can you stand out in a sea of sameness all pushing the same green messaging, for instance an example of the energy sector Yeah, I think really kind of scoping out how the proposition of your brand works in line with what you're doing So there may be elements of sustainable messaging that you're doing differently to others, in which case again you can drive competitive advantage around being different in some industries as the question kind of alludes to there is just a similarity everywhere but I guess then it's how the proposition of your brand and your personality can bring that to life in a more engaging way I think if I kind of take the meat free market as an example lots of meat free products are by their very nature more sustainable than meat products however the way in which people talk about them is starting to drive differentiation in that category so I mentioned earlier in the deck beyond meat they had a very kind of loud amplified US tone of voice that really cuts through international markets and changed the way that people thought about the category and that point links to also the Guinness example highlights some of the challenges we have as marketers around driving the personality and the proposition and positioning of the brand linked to sustainability as well so I think there's opportunities just to drive cut through and competitive advantage in that way So I hope I mentioned the meat market as a question what do you think the future holds for animal agriculture So my view has always been the direction of travel will be less and better so generally there will be a movement towards less meat consumption but the meat that is consumed will be of better quality so within all of this debate you know farmers need to be part of the solution and it will be absolutely you know normal for both milk and meat farming to deliver solutions but there will also be lots of different options so there will be meat free products there will be cell based products and there will be alternative proteins that either haven't been invented yet or indeed just use very different solutions so I think the direction of travel will be less and better but absolutely farmers will be needed to be part of the solution Okay next question do you think that sustainability only appeals to certain target markets and if so how does this impact on sustainable marketing strategy and I guess you're looking at your curve aren't you with your laggards still maybe to be convinced I think the purpose of kind of including the definition of marketing at the heart of this presentation is to be really clear as marketers that we're trying to service needs of our consumers I think that raises two questions firstly within the data that you have around your consumers do you see it as a trend and a motivator and if so we're pointing the direction of trying to service that need and secondly maybe taking a step back and looking a little more broadly to say well are the consumers whose demands I'm not meeting by not having sustainable strategies there will be some markets where consumers just aren't switched on to sustainability being driver or may choose not to have it as a priority in that category so for example if you work in a very indulgent category whereby people are sustainable most of the time but then make a choice into your brand to have the treat or not be sustainable for some reason actually you know it may be choiceful to say that sustainability won't be a driver for us but it's about making choices and being aware of the backdrop as to what's driving some of the behaviour and hopefully if there are data points that point in that direction then understanding some of the place in terms of how to do well driving participatory offering next question what do you think about the danger of greenwashing as companies seek to use marketing to promote superficial campaigns that hide potentially less environmentally sustainable behaviours do you think there needs to be greater scrutiny around sustainable and inverted commerce communication so that companies are held accountable for their actions increasingly yes so I think it's a very fair point I think to that point around speaking to people in the know in this area non-government organisations that are aware of your industry it's very useful to understand have critical voices around what you're doing so that it drives better behaviour I think there have been examples of greenwashing through numerous communications the ASA have started to have regulations around sustainability claims and that will only increase as more detail around sustainability is presented to consumers and I think it's something to be careful of but a critical mind from a consumer point of view again doesn't necessarily do any harm because it should seek to make companies better I guess being very transparent and being very clear of where you are in that process is very important from a marketing perspective then one similar thing on collaboration what about competitor collaboration rather than advantage do you have any views on sectors working together rather than trying to compete and they give an example of collaboration by leading sports brands to align to work together to reduce impact as a collective yeah I mean again if there's the opportunity for bigger groups of people to work to a common means it feels like that's a good opportunity clearly you know competition and collaboration just needs to be worked on in a very legal way but working as a broader industry seems to really kind of take examples in social responsibility of organizations like the Portland Group some of the betting regulators who have actually developed more stringent approaches to the entire industry to better the activities of those industries and winners in those markets seem to be those who collaborate well at that level right and another question or a comment at the beginning which most people the question says think that people think of sustainability as an environmental issue and the past year has highlighted the importance of looking after people well being mental health do you think this could be sustainability USP as to communicate I mean I think a lot of changes as well working from home versus working in an office shopping online has there been an impact this past year? Yeah I totally agree with that so Covid has really kind of put in focus the interaction between people and our planet and I think what the sustainable development goals do is broaden the nature of the way people think about sustainability and through that I think there's lots of different routes into more sustainable practices and I would hope that moving forward consumers who clearly kind of care about different issues as service in different ways and it may link into the point earlier about how you create a USP you might actually choose to focus on different sustainability goals than maybe the industry norms and there are some good examples around that you know from a Patagonia point of view the impact in a sort of fashion environment on people and practices of those people who actually make the clothes is a slightly different way than just kind of thinking about an end user and how they may care for their clothes and I think what you'll start to see is a broadening of the way that people consumers define sustainability and therefore different differentiation models around how you meet those needs for consumers. A question on a similar theme to the answer you've just given there could you give an example of best practice from an FMCG brand who is able to translate the science into simple consumer benefits? Yeah clearly I'll be subjective but I think if you take someone like Oakley it's a great example so given that there were an oak based milk in a market that was largely soy they did a very strong job of starting to talk about the benefits of the oats versus soy which increasingly soy within the food industry will have sustainability questions but they also did it in an engaging way you know the idea of the line of milk for humans was a very kind of creative, catchy way of just kind of getting into people's brains and thinking through their current behaviour that was very ingrained so I think Oakley's neat way of modernising the offering and the way that sustainability was communicated but also then the transparency for example, carbon footprint in their products talking about the benefits that it has to the planet and also moving into various countries to encourage dairy reduction was kind of interesting play into that world so I think whilst it's probably a very sort of standard answer I think Oakley have done that in a very interesting way. Okay thanks. Next question, do you have any advice for companies where they are on a sustainable journey but still have some less sustainable benefits of their company such as products that don't have any sustainability built into them? So I think there's a comment just in the deck which is about progress not perfect and I think if you have a strategy whereby moving forward you're trying to make progress consumers are fairly understanding of that. I think if you can be transparent about where you are today and where you're hoping to get to that really helps consumers as well and then it also provides opportunity for innovation so there may be some areas where you can't reach sustainability today but you can innovate around those territories to offer either better propositions from a sustainability point of view or just an entirely new proposition that means that you can delist your current proposition. So I think there's kind of different routes in there whereby sometimes you can say look 80% of what we do is sustainable there is 20% that we still need to work on or you can actually kind of just take the ball by the horns and innovate around it to to improve. Right a very brief question this one do you think carbon offsetting is a fad? It's a very live topic at the moment so I think what companies are trying to do is to use it as a way to short-term try to get to a solution I think what will happen over the longer term is more options will become available and there's probably something interesting in the monetization of carbon credits as well whereby it will become easier for companies and businesses to do more to carbon offset so I think it may not necessarily as a fad but I think it feels more like a short-term solution the longer term companies and will work around to invest in the right pages to achieve carbon. Okay next question our consumers really talking about the same thing when talking about sustainability or is there a risk that everyone has a different perception? Truly you know to try and define the issues that our planet faces through one word is always going to be a risk so I think lots of people will come at sustainability from a different angle and I think to that point about being very clear on the data of your audience or your potential audience becomes the important factor so for some industries and sectors carbon may be the only issue for other sectors work as rights may be an issue you know if you look at Uber recently suddenly classing their drivers as employees there will be different drivers of audience definitions of sustainability around your category or brand and really kind of understanding through traditional marketing methods of research and closeness to the consumer will be the way that people really drive the best advantage for the brands they work on. Okay and I think we've got time for one final question do you think any specific sustainability badges or accreditation for companies are better than others? I'll rather bore you probably link it back to my last answer which is this is going to be around variety it will depend entirely on your kind of category and brand but I think at the heart of this is those true marketing principles of understanding what appeals to your consumers that can set you apart from the competitors that you have and then really communicating in a clear and transparent way to them so I don't think there's a hierarchy of which accreditation is the best I think the game will become around how to clearly communicate in the small amounts of time brands have with consumers what you're doing and why that's beneficial to them. Okay that's excellent we've had quite a few questions there so that's brilliant thanks Alex don't forget you can still download a copy of Alex's presentation along with a list of additional reading materials which you'll find in the handout section so that's all the time we have for our webinar today I'd like to say thanks to Alex for today's presentation CIM Midlands for organizing the event and a thank you to you all for watching we do hope you found it interesting and worthwhile. Our next webinar Express is the five competencies for standing out in the sea of sameness and that is on Thursday the 8th of April at 1pm hosted by CIM Yorkshire you'll find it listed on the events page on the CIM website where you'll be able to find out more information and to register for the session. So on behalf of CIM thank you once again Alex for your presentation and thank you for joining us we hope you enjoy the rest of your day