 Welcome back. It's still the breakfast and plus TV Africa. Khadija Okunoulamidi turned many heads. When she became the first woman and the youngest Nigerian to announce a bid for the 2023 presidency, Dottavle's lawyer and former works minister, Hajji Femio Kunou, Khadija entered the political fray without giving an indication as to which political party she is with. And this has got some Nigerians questioning her political sagacity. You'd agree with me that Nigerian politics is not for the faint-hearted. So how does she intend to prove her doubt is wrong? What is her plan for Nigeria if she becomes president? Joining us this morning on the breakfast is Khadija Okunoulamidi. Khadija, good morning to you. Good morning. Good morning. All right, nice. How does it feel? I mean, what has it been like for you since you made the announcement? Well, it's been relative calm, making the media rounds and actually putting a manifesto, getting it together and putting a team which is growing bigger by the day. With the volunteers, we have over almost a thousand volunteers now. Ten thousand? A thousand. A thousand. And these people are just willing to put down their skills and everything that is required. So this is how the momentum is going. Okay. Has it been what you expected? Yes. And you never really know what to expect. But if you have the right intention and you have everything that you think is good for the nation, then I think you should expect the best. All right. We know you made a speech and it was all over social media. Great optics. But why did you join the race? Well, it's time. I think there's a huge gap in the political space. What I've done should have been expected from most of our leaders out there. We see a business of silence these days. Things are going wrong. It's clear the ship is sinking. I don't think it's time for us to point fingers, number one. It's time to actually take, you know, show leadership by example. Not that there are no worries or no fears, but you need to put those things aside and actually put the nation in front and set the agenda and let people understand that there are ways to go about it to rearrange the polity and make it work, make Nigeria work for everyone. So was it a case of, you know, I can't keep quiet while things are going bad. If no one would stand up and speak out and do something about it, how would do something about it? This was how I was raised, yes. Okay, so let's quickly look at the state of the nation. I mean, currently right now on major consent for Nigeria's security. It cuts across board, you know, in the North East and, you know, the Northern part of the country you have insurgency and, you know, the North East, you have the issue of the iPop agitation. However, security is a major concern. Paraventure you become president or how do you intend to tackle all of this? Well, first things first, you know, some of the reasons for insurgency is idleness of our use and, you know, people's voices, people feel their voices are not heard. And these are the issues that we need to tackle. We cannot do it from one, you know, from one state. You have to actually go around and actually listen to what the concerns are and bring everybody to the table and let the resources that are, we have ample resources we're dependent on just one. We need to bring back all these resources and let people, let Nigerians benefit from the Nigerian resource. And you'll realize that insecurity comes from joblessness, it comes from, you know, lack of healthcare, comes from lack of education. These are the issues that surmount to becoming insurgency. So, you know, throughout the course of our campaign, we're going to visit every single state. We're going to have, you know, these round table conversations and discussions and actually find out what exactly are the issues because, you know, from different angles, you hear different stories. Let me hear exactly what it is and then we'll come up with a robust plan on how to solve, you know, the different issues and that overall solves the security issue. Because, you know, just like you have mentioned, I mean, some of this issue, the issue of idleness, not necessarily entirely the issue with the security architecture in the country and that could you probably say in the South is, a lot of persons are not satisfied with how resources, the marginalization and that might be the case for the South is. Well, you have the, you know, farmers, headers, clashes, some people would say this is banned. That would also be another, but it's a good thing that you have mentioned that you would like to visit all of the states and then it would be okay, you know, to actually find out. So, let's get straight to another one now. Structures, grassroots connection. We know that elections are not just won by, you just wake up and say, okay, I want to become president, I want to become governor. The grassroots, what's your connection with the grassroots across the entire federation? What structures have you built? Okay, first thing, I am a grassroots person. I've always been and I need, I need us to understand that structure, they're not, you know, we talk about it like they're people, structures are made up of people and what you need to do is ensure that you have as much connection to the people as possible. So, the existing structures, you could say they are counted for, you could, but I don't really believe that they are because right now 20% of, if we only get 20% voter turnout, that is not a clear indication of the voice of the people. So, we need to activate the structures which are people that we haven't, that have been disenfranchised or just, you know, voter apathy. They just don't want to take part in the process because they don't believe in the process. So, we need to reawaken the people for them to speak up to what they really want. Here is a test of the people. It's not a test of a small few, I mean, a few or a little group or a minority. It is a test of the majority. This is a majority we're reaching out to. So, the question now is this majority, you have talked about 20, 80. How, what structures have you put in place to reach out to the 80? How connected are you to this 80? Well, we have connections in every state. That's number one. We need to build on those. I'm sure you realize that I'm not sure we've really had elections where you get to interrogate your candidates on time. I think most times the elections always, you know, starts the momentum towards the election itself, three, four months towards the election. But right now we have quite a bit of time. We came out quite early. We stated our intention quite early so that we can have time to actually meet and speak and be interrogated and, you know, put our plans in place as we go. You know, it takes, it's a process and it takes time. So, we've come out early enough, just like I, you know, I'm sure other candidates. Well, I'm sure you realize that most, for the last maybe three, four election cycles, people come out. They only declare four months, three months before the election. So, everything is real, you know, fast space. Right now we have a bit of, we have a little, you know, it took a while to even step out in the first place. So, we have a bit of time and we're going to take, you know, go get to each of these states and build existing structure. You know, when people understand your message and people align with your message, that is how you build structure. People just have to buy into the vision. You have to have a vision. You cannot, you know, project and say, okay, this is, you know, an anointing. This race is not for an anointing. It's actually for, you know, people having the best intention and having a vision for their people, for their people. And if people buy into it and key into it, then that's how you build structure. And yeah. Okay. We put some questions online, you know, asked the public to ask, tell us what they'd like to know about you. Some are asking to know if you've run for any political office before. No, I haven't. Okay. So, this is the first time. Yes. I've had conversations, you know, we've had conversations extensively about you. You've been a topic on many radio stations around the country and outside. And I'm sure you're well aware of that. Some people feel you should have gone for a lesser office, maybe state governorship or state House of Assembly or House of Representative or Senate. Someone even said to me, local government chairmanship. What do you say to that, having not run for office? Do you feel that puts you at a disadvantaged position and that probably, you know, you should run for? I know you'd say no. But what do you think about these comments? Okay. You know, I do appreciate people's opinions and how they believe we should go. However, you know, this was my call of duty. And the other positions you've mentioned, there are millions and thousands of credible Nigerians that are going to fill those roles. And, you know, going for the highest office, you know, it's a call, no doubt. But it's also a call to let everybody know that all, nothing is, you know, reserved. There are no positions that are reserved. It is, you are backed by the constitution, you can run for office. And ambition is quite key in this journey. We cannot complain and not have, you know, ready candidates that would be ready to step up and take these positions. So, yes, you know, I'm looking forward to many Nigerians stepping up to take these roles. And, you know, I can only do one. I can only have, you know, take one role. You know, the others are open for everyone. What do you think it will have been better, you know, to, has it, have you not thought about it? You know, start from your state, your negotiation, I believe. And maybe start from one of the constituencies, a federal constituency. And build your political muscles to be able to fight for the next political muscle. That means you make, you want me to become a career politician. That's what you're looking for. Because, you know, you start, you know, like I said, it's not really about, you know, where you start from. It's about your plans. And they say start here because it's a form of closing up the space. So, you think you have to climb this ladder. And then, you know, somewhere you could get compromised, you know, God forbid. But, you know, these things happen. And you, you know, first things, first we need political will for anything to happen. Political will is, would be got from the highest office. That is where we'll get anything that we need to get done. With the way our constitution is, most of the powers reside there. So, getting that power, it's not, you know, it's important. It's an important seat. Now, to build the country forward, it still has to start from the local governments. That's, there's no, there's no, there's no mistake in that. That has to, because if anything happens, if you have any issues with security, you don't call the IG first. You call your police, the MDG or AG around your CP, around your local government. So, we still have to build from the ground up. But we need political will for anything to work from there. Are you in it to win it? I mean, some people saying, you know, Khadija is just coming out, like the regular politicians, to make a name for herself and see what comes out of it for her. Probably she'll bag on a poet bed from one of the parties or get a bag or check or something. So, are you in it to win it? Definitely. I'm not really, like you mentioned earlier, I've never had, I've never sought any political office. And the reason why I'm stepping out now is that I realise that most of our leaders have failed us. And, you know, here is a time where you need to answer that call of duty. You know, we're in it to win. However, all the political gain and personal gain, I'm quite happy and quite content with what God has given me. So, are you saying if you offered a position in the government that emerges, say you do not win in 2023, will you pick that office up? To serve? I think I can serve in so many other capacities. If you're given a ministerial position, for instance, in a very important minute, I see you sharing water on Instagram and it means you have a heart for the people. If the winning party and the winning government says, Khadija, we've seen your campaign, you've said a few good things we would like you to come on our team, want to give you a very important ministry, probably, I don't know. Well, I wouldn't want you to put it in terms of an office, because power is not in an office. But whichever part, whichever winning, whichever government wins, I do want to contribute as long as it's to benefit the country. So you will take up the position? Not, I don't think. If you were given that position, say, okay, come contribute as minister, for instance, as minister, for instance, come contribute. You lost, but we don't think we should let you go. We want you on board to contribute. There's no loss here. There's no loss. The fact that at the end of the day, a woman has to, you have to put women in, if you want to make a good decision, they say if you're making decisions without a woman on the table, you're making the wrong decisions now. I totally agree. So my candidacy alone has sparked conversations. It has, you know, the ruling elites have realized it's not business as usual. They realize that it's time to raise the status quo. You know, this alone, these are the kind of contributions that are wins for me and for my team. My team, they're an amazing set of Nigerians that are, they buy into this dream and this vision of making Nigeria work for all. And you know, so when you talk about positions, I don't want you to, you know, people might think you're going for the post, for all the positions. But you're saying you wouldn't, you would consider an offer to work with the government. Definitely. Yeah. Definitely. Okay. All right. I think that's something that we can So let's also look at, I know that you haven't been very vocal with the political party. Of course, you have to express your interest on that particular political party. I don't know if you're ready to tell us now or should we keep waiting? Well, the thing to do is that we want to make sure we get our message across to the people. You know, party politics is the bane of our politics in Nigeria. It's too mediocre. It's not even, it's too low. We talk about parties and we talk about, you know, the issue, you know, what parties better than the other, rather than talk about the issues and solutions that for the people, you know, so there are many parties out there and we're still in discussions, but we want to make sure that we make the right decision, but we'll announce soon. Okay. So let's even talk about the issues that you have mentioned. Another one still on the front burner is the fact that there's been call for agitation. I mean, you have a lot of people who want to go their ways because they feel like we can no longer be an entity, Niger. And on the other hand, you also have the fact that some people are calling for, let's restructure the entire architectural, let's restructure the entire polity. Some people will say there's a difference between restructuring. Those who are calling for the polity to be restructured and those who are asking, we want to go separate ways. But I'd like to show your thoughts on that. Paraventure, I mean, we're just saying you have the opportunity. How would you handle this? The issue of restructuring and those who want to go their separate ways? Well, I understand that there are, you know, people are discontent with some of the ways that the country has been managed. However, I am not of the opinion that we should go our separate ways. So unity for me is key. One of the reasons is that, you know, you think there's a never ending break. Once you break, it's a continuous downstream. And this is why you see that, you know, you have inter-tribal wars. This is how it starts. So our strength is in our unity. And I want us to keep it. I want us to keep it that way. You know, one of the things that I'm championing in this campaign is the fact that, you know, the Nigeria still is greater together. Coming out, we're coming out from a different angle as a contender, as a woman. There are so many. How do you put it? We're coming from a totally different angle. So, you know, we're coming out as, you know, the unifying force, which is what the plan is. And for us to be able to do this restructuring is going to have to happen. So you're not the reason why a lot of people are agitating. They feel very not satisfied. And that's because when you want to talk about resources, because at the end of the, all of this boils down to who controls what, who gets what when and how. And that's the politics, and that's the interest. Now, some parts of the country feel dissatisfied with what they are getting. They feel like we generate so much, but we're getting so little. When you want to talk about the issue of inclusion of government, they're not being carried along, specifically the southeastern region. And you want to also agree with me that for 2023, there's also call that, you know, we have someone from the power should actually be given to the southeastern region of the country in terms of presidency. Although the issue of zoning has never been inclusive in the constitution, but it has always been a gentleman's agreement. So how, how, how do you intend to resolve all of this? The marginalization is very big and people feel dissatisfied. You said we're making so much. We're not making one tenth of what we should be making as a country. But the little, but the little that we're making, you want to agree? Yes, yes. We're, we're depending on one tenth of our economy. And this is an issue. There's so many, there's so many resources that we have not. The problem we have is we have so much potential. We're not able to apply that potential in Nigeria. Same with human capital, same with resources. And what we need to do going forward is we need to ensure the reason why we're agitating for these small resources. When you have just a little, everybody agitates. So we need to open up the economy. We need, we need to, you know, have some kind of diversification. As you can see, I'm even in Ashoki. These are some of the things that we need to start thinking, thinking within and ensure that we grow our economy. That way, each region, you're making so much that, you know, the matter of what is coming from federal, federal allocation should be nothing compared to what you're making within. Though we need to give those sectors and give those parts of the economy attention and give them an enabling environment, that's the function of the government. It's not to allocate resources. And no, you're supposed to enable these regions to make sure that they can operate at full capacity. So you're saying you're supporting regional government? It's, I mean, this is part of the restructuring structure that I support. Okay. So you'll give the state's greater autonomy? More autonomy. Yeah, they need to take power away from the center. The center is, you know, we need, we do need to restructure that. Okay. I'm going to come to your economic policy and where you stand. But there are interests in Nigeria that are served by power remaining at the center. You know, of course, we know what happened in the regional system where you had the states controlling their resources, regions controlling their resources, the North, the Southwest, and so on. But these days, we are at the state, you know, we have a state system. They are passed or they are passed to the country that are carried along. Let me use that word. Better when everything is controlled from the center. And you're not alone. You're going to have to appeal to them to vote for you. You're going to have to have, you know, discussions and you're going to have to give something, make promises to them. And they will not vote for you, may, sorry, may not vote for you. If you tell them, when I come in, I'm going to take away the national kick that you enjoy and allow states control their oil. And then we'll just give you something small. You make your money, you know. So how are you going to navigate this political, the geopolitics of Nigeria? Let's call it that. Okay. It still comes back to you. You're still zeroing in on oil. That's all we're talking about now. I'm zeroing on the interests. Yes. And the interests, the national kick right now is only baked by oil. And that's where the issue is. So, you know, it's easy. You know, when you have negotiations, you have to give something and take something. We need to give them other avenues to make money so that they understand that, you know, we don't all have to hold on to this one thing that is dwindling. Well, globally, globally, the people, you know, people's dependence on oil is dwindling. So that is not even a resource that is we should consider. But the people on the streets in Sokoto for instance. Don't worry. We'll get to them. That's not the problem. They listen to their leaders. Yes, which is fine. So the leaders... And of course, the other states are complaining that they will suffer if we have a restructuring where the states control their resources and the oil money doesn't get to the center to be shared by FAC. They will suffer. So you have to talk. Are you sure you can convince them? We're running a campaign and the campaign has a goal and a vision and a mission. So this is part of how we're going to get the country. You know, we're running to win, like we said, it's a victory campaign. However, the plan is to, you know, run a campaign such that we win the heart of the country. You know, this is what we're fighting for. The heart for us to understand and become a warm nation once again, a green nation, a nation that, you know, is full of bounty all over again. So I would say we have the utopian or the idealist scenario and we have the real. The real, if you talk to, we're political insiders. I call them outsiders. For instance, I can tag you an outsider, for instance, because you're not a career politician as it were. I've spoken to a couple of outsiders in my time as a journalist who say, I thought it was like this, but I got in and realized that it's like this. For God's sake, to even get proper documentation in an MDA of government, you may have to just push the envelope. So are you coming out with this idealist and this holier than thou, sorry to use the term, stance that I'm not like the other politicians. You want to change Nigeria? Leadership comes from the top. Whether you like it or not, what you see is what you mimic. And there are many like-minded individuals such as me, yourself, Mercy. It's quite, it's quite, you know, it's quite saddening that we have fallen into the narrative of, you know, the other side, if you want to put it that way. Even the people who are, you know, having all these ideas or doing these kind of, they understand that the country is going into, the ship is sinking and, you know, we're appealing to them to put self-serving behaviors and, you know, self, we're appealing to them to put these behaviors aside, because we're, it's time for us to grow the nation. It's time for us to- That's appealing to the electorate. Not the electorate. The politicians. The electorate, the politicians. But let me, kind of, I have some of come to the conclusion. I've interviewed a lot of politicians and I've come to the conclusion that it is the electorate that actually, they say, make the demands of politicians. I've spoken to one or two political outside and said, see, I went there and I campaigned to them. I gave them my beautiful ideas and I gave them speeches and, and I wowed them and they were inspired. On election day, they walked away to the side and collected 5,000 and voted against me. Khadija, are you aware, what do you say about this? And are you, are you prepared to fight dirty? Because that is how it is Nigerian politics. It's a dirty game, some would say. I'm sure you're aware of that. Are you, how, how dirty can you get? So, so, so, so. You have a war chest to pay? Because, so, so, she understands what I'm saying. No, sir, I just put it directly to her. Mercy, mercy, allow me to talk. Are you aware of these dynamics that voters out there whom you want to rescue will not vote for you if you don't pay them money? Let me get her. So, I wanted to ask, would you be involved in the money politics? Giving and taking? What do you call it? Pervention. I mean, that's what it is. Would you give, you know, to get people to come up to the side? It may not be money, it could be bags of rice. It could be anything. It could be materials or wrappers or anything. You're giving me, you're giving me examples of what ideas or what I should do. You know, in just like you said, in politics you have to let people know what's in it for them. And we're sending a message to understand, let people know what's in it for their children, what's in it for them in the next, you know, in the years to come, how they can tap into abundance, how they can tap into, you know, a country that they will be proud of. This is a message we're selling. This is a message that we want them to understand. As we go, as we go along the journey, and you talked about war chest, we're not fighting a war. Those who have a war, war doesn't win elections. That's, I mean, money doesn't win elections. Opportunities, access to opportunities wins elections. You know, so we understand, we understand the strategy of politics and that's what's more important than any other thing. So as we go along the way, we will do things, you know, we have to do victory. We have, I mean, we have to have legacy projects. Legacy projects don't come in 5,000 and 1,000 nairas. They come in things that are sustainable. You go to, there's so much underdevelopment that there's so much work to do. Regardless of if you win or if you don't win, you have to do this project so that people benefit from it for long term. You look back and I'm appealing to all the candidates on all the aspirants as they go about their campaigning. Please, let's, you know, let's go about projects rather than money, vote buying. So that at the end of each election cycle, we've seen so much work done. Even if you don't win. Yes, so this is how we should go about it going forward. So quickly, I'd like to show your thoughts on this one now. A lot of people have applauded the fact that you're a woman and you've come in and we see the involvement of women in politics not been very, you know, great. Some people would say the 35% affirmation is nothing to write them about and you have some quotas asking this question specifically. What would you do to improve participation? We'll have laws. It's not like we don't have laws to actually encourage participation of women in politics but it hasn't really improved across different strata. You know, like we mentioned earlier, one of the benefits of this office that I'm running for is political will. You said there are laws, but without political will it would not happen. So, you know, 30% affirmation it's not going to, if you don't have the political it's not going to go through. So, this is one of the key reasons and one of the key, I mean, it's one of the major topics to handle once we get in power. And then also, women, I think we need to get up. There's no one, you know, we just need to get up. We make a difference wherever, we make a splash wherever we go and it's time for us to start improving. If it's going to work in Nigeria, it's on us. It's actually on us. So, let's also get you talked about the plan for Nigeria. I'm sure we haven't, you've told us about this is why you want to but really, really what are your plans for Nigeria? Well, as the cost of the campaign goes on, you will roll out more and more. You see more and more of our plans and, you know, the manifesto, you know, detail all the, all this. But, you know, maybe in a sentence or two, can you categorically tell, you know, Nigerians and those who are listening now, what are your plans? Well, okay. So, like you mentioned earlier, housing is really, really key in our manifesto, housing, education, health, and security, like you mentioned. So these are some of the things that we put on top priority. And then the youth inclusion, where innovation, we're going to have to have, you know, innovation, innovative public policies that will just, you know, take us leapfrog years ahead of time. So these are some of the things that we're considering. You know, a journalist once asked Femi Fanikairi who cross-captured from the PDP to the APC, back to the PDP and then back to the APC. Hope I got it right. He was once asked by reporter in Calabar, who is bankrolling you, you know, and Femi didn't take it lightly, but later apologized. Politics takes its money. You said it doesn't, but I think, you know, it does. Even the gospel, we're told, you know, takes money to preach, you know, the gospel or whatever gospel you believe in. And do you have the funds to bankroll your campaign? Yes, we do. Okay, when you say we, so who? I don't want you to take offense with this question, but who is bankrolling you? The Nigerian people. You know, we are, our system of campaign and how we're rolling is we need to be accountable to the people. So we are crowdfunding at the moment, and that means every 1,000, 5,500 makes such a difference. And because people have invested in us, we are accountable to them, rather than, you know, one or two big money bags that silence the voice of the people. How much are you looking to raise? As much as we, as much as we go. Probably should have a budget, you know. So what's, what's, what's the figure? Well, those who are listening to know that this is what we need to help, the target. What's the target? Well, we just, look, I want every petty trader and every farmer and every cloth weaver and every shoe shiner, if we still have those, I want them to contribute into this campaign because it's, it's, we're, we're building, we're building the nation and it's, this is part of nation building. We're not going to, we promise, we're not going to mismanage your funds. We're going to be accountable. All our audited accounts will be available on all our platforms. I can give you our email. I mean, our website is www.KOLNigeria.com. www.KOLNigeria.com. And this is the same on all, across all platforms. KOL underscore Nigeria, Instagram, Twitter. So you're saying that you are going to rely on Nigerians to fund your campaign? Yes. And you don't have the money right now? We have, we have funds and yes, we do. Who, who, who is bankrolling? Obviously it's going to be personal funds. It's crowdfunding, crowdfunding. Okay, you've had some money coming from the public. Yes, yes. So you're saying that you don't have a godfather? No, I have my father, thank God he's, you know, I still benefit from his wealth of, of knowledge and experience. Okay, and he supports you? My father is. You don't have a, because, because one of the, I have a list of things I call, you know, the 101 on Nigerian politics for the political outsiders. What are the things that I've, you know, I've seen a lot of people say, outsiders who have become insiders, is that you need to have a political godfather. So one who will take your hand to the other godfathers or corridors of power across the country, because you have political systems that are headed by people, and you have a multitude of people who participate in the political activities, who move at their leader's command. It doesn't care whether the leader is doing right or wrong. It can see even in America it happens, right and left, they just stick to where they belong. They don't want to move. So, so, so have you thought about getting a political godfather, maybe? Does it have to be one? Okay, godfathers. Yeah, and godmothers. Yeah, I mean, fathers and mothers. Yeah, we have a lot of those. But you have godfathers. There are many, you know, progressive youth-minded elders in the political space that I, you know, close to and that direct and, you know, help with direction and how, you know, wisdom. So this is, this is the function they perform. And that's... Okay, so we're ended now. I mean, we're at a time, we're getting the prompt to end it now. Just one question. Just one and very simple. What happens if you don't win? I mean, it's not like you're not going to win. Everybody plans to win, but what happens if you don't win? We've already won. This is already won. Okay, so, so, I mean, realistically, let's look at that down. What happens if you don't win? Do you wait for another year? Do you fall back into something? You know, like, I'm a successful businesswoman and I have my, I'm an entrepreneur. However, you know, we are running a victory campaign and... And if you don't win? It's already a win. This is already a win when position is not power. Okay, so some would say, if you say you're already winning, means you probably just want to make a statement, make an impact and go. Look, you know, the fact that, you know, everyone is back interested in the politics of Nigeria and they are, like you asked, the godfathers, Nigerians are, they are, everybody's a godfather, everybody's a godmother. We just need to understand our power and take it back. You know, that's all it is. If both leading political parties, APC and PDP, reach out to you, to be a member of each and come contest in their party primaries, which will you go for? I have never been a member of any political party and I'm not, I'm not inclined to, and those two. Those two? Yes. All right. All right, thank you so much Kadija Okuno for coming and we wish you the very best. Thank you very much for having me.