 I could definitely say that I'm not one of those mathematically gifted autistic people. I am not either. And this brings up another big thing I talk about. And I got a new book coming out called Visual Thinking. And it's about the different kinds of thinking. I'm an object visualizer. If you watch the HBO movie about me, Temple Grandin, it shows how I think visually. And I'm an extreme object visualizer. I can't do math, higher math. So that makes me good at art, animals, photography, mechanics. Then you got your mathematical person that's got autism, your mathematical mind, your computer programmers, chemists, physicists, they often are good at music. And then you have the word-based person who's on the spectrum, who loves facts about different things. History is often a favorite subject. And I made the mistake when I originally wrote Thinking in Pictures back over 20 years ago of thinking everybody on the spectrum thought in pictures the way I did. That's wrong. It's a subgroup that thinks in pictures. And then there's a group that's more of the mathematical pattern thinkers. And then there are word thinkers. That's really interesting. What kind of category would you put me in? Because most of the stuff that I do is... I don't know enough about you. It tends to... The visual thinkers like me, I know a lot of them in real high-end skilled traits. I've worked with large companies on installing cattle handling facilities. And I worked with brilliant people that were laying out entire plants on people that were inventing equipment and patenting it. That'd be my kind of mind. And some of these people were on the autism spectrum, undiagnosed. And then you've got the computer people working for the tech companies. The first thing I'd ask you is, what were your best subjects in school where I'd start trying to figure out the kind of thinker you are? It was philosophy, physical education, chemistry, biology and physics. Okay. Now, philosophy is definitely verbal. Chemistry's got a lot of math on it. Physical education, that could be anybody. Visual thinkers like me can't do algebra. And I'm very, very concerned that my kind of mind is getting screened out of a lot of things because real higher abstract math I can't do. But there's things that I can do that I'm very good at that the mathematicians are not able to do. Yeah, it seems to be a really big problem nowadays. Even for other neurodiverse people like ADHD or dyspraxia or a whole host of different people, the education system seems to be very rigid in their approach. Well, it's very verbal oriented. Because I've worked with people that were designing entire big beef plants and other things. I'm going to estimate about 20% of the people that I've worked with that can build anything, whether autistic, dyslexic or ADHD. And the problem is industry needs them. I talked to a lady just a couple of days ago, Gerber Baby Food Factory, and they have problems of finding people to fix equipment. We've got the same problem in the meat industry right now. The people I've worked with are retiring. Nobody's replacing them because they took all the skilled trades things out of schools in some of our states. Some of our states are putting it back in. And skilled trades aren't for everybody. But how do you know if you don't try things? Often there's like a really big barrier to entry that's quite theoretical and exact. Well, you see, on the things I did with cattle handling, there was no academic barrier to entry in that. Sure. Yeah. It's considered industrial process equipment. And if they make an academic barrier to entry on industrial process equipment, I don't care what industry you're in, you're going to be in big trouble. Because the visual thinker like me is the one that invents mechanically complicated equipment. In fact, if you want a poultry processing plant right now in the U.S., you're going to import all the equipment from the Netherlands from Holland. And there's a reason for that. They did not take out the skilled trades. That's why that equipment now, and it's mechanically clever equipment, comes from Holland. That's really interesting. Because Holland has quite a, like their structure seems very different to any of the countries that I've been to. Do you think there's anything particular about the Netherlands that is, or Holland, is particular, like why they produce such good machine? Well, right now, the Holland's, you know, I went to two, just before COVID hit, I went to two stale yard brand new pork processing plants. Mostly equipment there came from Holland. You see, there's like two parts of engineering. There's the mathematical part. Because you look at a food processing plant, and I've been in tons of them. The mathematicians designed that boilers through refrigeration, power, and water requirements make sure the building doesn't fall down. But then all of the equipment that goes inside the plant mechanically clever equipment, not made by the mathematically inclined engineers. And this is something that educators just don't realize. In fact, if you look back at old patents in my new book on visual thinking, that you can pre-order right now on amazon.com in the US, just put visual thinking and then my name, Temple Grandin. It's very good. You go back in history, the patent office in the US, they originally required that you submit a scale working model of your invention. Now, that's not the mathematical kind of minds. Mostly early patents were coming out of the people that were probably non-mathematicians. Think back to things like printing press, and that was too early to even be patented. But mechanically clever equipment. And we've got a problem right now on people to fix factors. You can't find them. I can tell you where they're at, they're playing video games, autism label, when they ought to be fixing factors, all types of factors. That's really interesting. I've done a lot of, I mean, a lot of the work sort of advocacy in the workplace work that I've done tends to be around things related to the media industry. Because I know a couple of autistic people who like work for the BBC, or do like their own independent related media stuff. One of the big issues that I've really found is that there's a lot of push for diversity in the workplace. Yeah, we're getting that. We have that too. But they don't tend to focus a lot on the inclusion aspects, like the positive reasonable adjustments so that it can get the most out of each person. What I'm finding in the workplace, and I've been doing a lot of workplace talks, is it seems like the financial sector, they can really use the mathematical type of autistic, and a computer sector, they know they need that talent. Now, you get into what I'm going to call services and consumer products, and I'm not going to mention any names. In that situation, it's sort of more, you know, they're just talking about it, rather than actually doing something about it. And then you get the very creative sector. I visited Pixar one time. You can definitely see the visual thinking there just in how the offices are decorated between a company like Pixar, and then you go into strictly a computer company. Computer guys, oh, they might put a few geometric patterns on the wall. But you go into Pixar, they've ripped out all the office cubicles, and one person has the tiki hut, the next one has the Star Trek cubicle. No, I'm not kidding. And it's, you see, those are the more my kind of mind. You know, a visual creativity. But the thing is, businesses need these different kinds of minds. And when I talk to corporations, they say, what's the first thing we have to do? The first thing is you have to realize different minds exist. And there's scientific research, and I've outlined it in this book, The Autistic Brain, show that my kind of brain, the object visualizer, is different than the pattern mathematical thing. There's scientific research that backs that up. And they have very different skills. And, and I've been involved with livestock industry for 50 years right now. I got a plant right now that I've got a real mess with the equipment. And I just talked to a guy just recently who's pushing 70. He's going to be looking at it very, very soon to see if he can fix it. Yeah. You know, for confidentiality reasons, I have to be somewhat vague about what it is.