 Good evening and welcome to episode 351 of the Private Property Podcast. It's the Wednesday edition of the Private Property Podcast. If you want us for the first time, welcome to an incredible family. We will always tackle all things relating to real estate, help each other on our property journeys, and absolutely, absolutely love supporting each other, sharing tips and tricks with one another. Do make sure that you follow us across our other social media pages and join the rest of the other family members. And if you're watching us on Facebook, you'll see all the love that we always get from the other members of the family. And of course, to our regular viewers, welcome back. You know how we do it every single weekday. You and I have an appointment at 7pm, where we're always in conversation with a property expert who helps us navigate our property journey. Doesn't matter where you are in the property journey, this is your one-stop-shop where we're always tackling some other thing relating to property. And of course, you also know that you can catch other amazing shows on our social media platforms. It is a Wednesday, so it's your class, and it's going to be coming to your screen, so with the first time home of bias show. And every Tuesdays and Thursdays, Umbalinoa brings you the farming podcast. And she's running a great series, the gardening series, that I'm absolutely loving. Yesterday debuted, looks absolutely beautiful. So do make sure to keep up with that one, especially if you're running your own garden. Many of you know I've got green fingers and trying to grow my own veggies and herbs. It's actually currently raining now. That's why I'm even wearing headphones for the first time, experiencing heavy rains and thunder. So I know that the garden is going to be quite happy for that one. So do make sure that you tune into that show to get those tips and tricks to tend to your garden. And every Mondays and Fridays, Chad brings you the home shoppers show where he's always giving us amazing twers of exquisite properties that you can find on www.privateproperty.co.za. And those are the great shows that you can catch every single weekday at 8 p.m. right here across private properties social media pages. And of course it's myself as I'm doing all come out every weekday at 7 p.m. on your screens talking property. And before we get to this evening's conversation that I'm very excited about, it's part two of a conversation that we had during Wheels Week, looking at the importance of having a will. And I'm joined by Erofa Negar before I even introduce him. Remember that we're running that competition on our Facebook page. And this evening, I think it's one of those things we want to give away this money all the time. So hopefully the show will get a sense of who is this evening's winner and if they're going to walk away with the money in the money bag. I think we're back at 500 rands in the money bag, if I remember. Or I think it may have rolled over. My memory is now a bit dodgy. And of course all you have to do to enter that competition at home is to respond to and comment rather to the post that we've put up on our Facebook page as the pinned post. And make sure that you're watching us live on the show in order to claim your prize. I see the money in the money bag is 1000 rands. So that's how much you stand a chance of winning. It's absolutely a great way to end off the quarter, it's month end, having that little bit of extra cash is always a good idea. Well, let's get into it this evening. I am joined by Erofa Negar who's a head of business development, virtual Erofa, good evening. And thank you so much for coming back to part two of our conversation this evening. Ah, Zama, how's it to all the viewers? It's awesome to be back, thanks. You know, I think Adolf, before we even get to part two of the conversation for some of the viewers who missed the first, but definitely urge you to listen to it. We had Adolf in September during Wheels Week and we're really exploring the importance of having a will and looked at what even goes into a will. One of the big things that came out of that conversation was you obviously have to have witnesses that sign the will and the fundamentally big thing that we came up with because I think many of us sometimes struggle with it. And by no fault of our own is that you cannot have the witnesses be the beneficiaries because that is going to create havoc that you do not want. So even if we already know you're drafting, it is a family and everybody's happy witnesses should not be the people who are beneficiaries of that particular will. And I think, you know, Adolf, I am already not going to even have a start at the very top because we already covered so much. So for the people who missed part one, definitely go to part one. We're going to pick it up from where we left off because I already said that there was still so much I wanted us to go through and still cover. And I think, Adolf, where we had actually left off because we now got a sense of, you know, make sure that you don't have, you know, destroy a previous will. The moment you sort of want to update your will. So sometimes instead of updating it manually and scratching things that could be disputed, rather just destroy that other one and always have only one, you know, copy of your will or one version of your will. Now, when we pick it up from there, because that's actually where we left off last year, in the event, I mean, last two weeks ago. So in the event where you then make them amendments and I think give us a few tips with people who perhaps may not, as I had just said, you know, may not, let's say scratch or rather may not create a new will, but still just want to make amendments there. So what, for people who are going to make, you know, amendments to the new will, what are some of the things that they need to be, make sure that they are still in place with that particular will. Because I think sometimes they think, oh, I did all those other things. I had witnesses, maybe this one, NJ, it's just me and I submitted. So what are still some of the fundamentals when you then make that amendment to the will? Okay, thanks, Alma. So what I understand is then we have a scenario and you must now be right that the person will not retype the whole will. You will make an amendment on the will with a pen. And so the most important thing is first do it as neatly as possible. So be very precise on which words or phrases you are deleting with your pen. Then make 100% sure that you write, that if you, if it must be a massive paragraph that you want to delete, make it clear that you are deleting that paragraph. But usually people want to just fix the date of birth or they just want to fix the name of the car or the name of the property or they just want to delete that property. So make sure you delete just the word or the phrase that's necessary. Then if it's a joint will, make sure you and the test data and the test tricks sign in full with the witnesses. The witnesses must sign in full wherever there's amendments and that's the simplest you can keep it. As soon as, as I said again, as soon as you start to make an amendment on the top of the page and at the bottom of the page and then the third page in the middle, it's becoming a bit messy. So rather than just type the will or do the will from scratch. And you know, out of when we then look at you know a will and some people for instance will typically have a life insurance policy. How do those two then sort of link up? Because I think a lot of us and when I say us, I really want to say, you know, black people will have life policies or funeral covers sometimes and a will won't necessarily be in place for the most part. And we'd have instances where, you know, family members or siblings are fighting for the mother's life insurance policy amount. So how do those two then kind of relate to each other? Okay. So Zama, if you give me an opportunity, I'm going to I'm going to park a bit on this topic because this is the most sensitive topic of them all. And also we are experiencing an aunt industry in the judiciary environment and where the executives need to wind up their state. This is where the biggest challenges comes up and let me explain to you why. So life insurance creates in general liquidity in the estate. And if I say liquidity, I refer to cash being available to the executor or to the family to settle debt so that once that once the property had a bond, for example, the bond can be settled and the property can be transferred. And there's enough fees to settle the property transfer fees, executors fees, possible capital gains tax, etc. So when we speak about life insurance in our industry, at absent, the data is as follows that 52% of all the estates that we wind up does not have sufficient liquidity. So what it means is that if there's not sufficient cash in the estate, it sometimes can be a challenging situation for the executor and it becomes a bitter pill to swallow for the family and the beneficiaries because what happens now is it becomes a difficult conversation because somebody needs to provide that cash. And if nobody can provide the cash, then the sad thing is that the executor needs to make decisions on how we can generate cash. And then it becomes at the point where you need to sell property. So on the life insurance part, I break it down in three legs. So this is what works for me to explain it to people. So you will always need liquidity in this state. So you can quickly do a liquidity calculation at Virtual Advice, at IEFA Virtual Advice, we can do a quick liquidity calculation, which means we can quickly help you determine what is the amount of cash you will need to settle all your liabilities and the transfer fees. Not living expenses, not making sure your beneficiaries are looked after, just liquidity. The next part is that we try, it's important that we take the world's wishes and we link it to a financial needs analysis. And part of that is estate planning. So in layman's terms, it's to explain this to you. A person will write the world and he will say property A and property B must go to my wife. The children must get the cars and I want to bequeath a million bucks to my granddaughter. Now when the world has been read out by the executive, he sees there's a wish by the state and test the tricks to bequeath a million bucks to their granddaughter. But he can't find the million bucks. There's no million rent in the estate. So it's simple, it's easy to write the wish, but to execute on the wish, it's a different story. And for you to make sure that the world can be executed, we do financial needs analysis and estate planning with the world. You must do a world together with estate planning and a financial needs analysis. In fact, I want to actually correct myself to say that rather do a world with estate planning. A financial needs analysis is something different, but when it comes to wills and the execution of will do property estate planning. So estate planning talks about if you have a good estate plan done by a proper and an experienced financial advisor, you will say to that, let's look at your will. Now let's look at the estate plan. If the estate plan in the world can speak to each other and can execute your wishes with on the good path. And what I always suggest to customers and the public is to make sure that your estate plan and your world is together at one place in a fall. So for simple reasons, if the executor then must start working on their estate and he's got their estate plan, you can see that, okay, it was prepared that this life insurance will be bequeathed to this person and this life insurance will go to this estate and this life insurance was planned to settle this debt. So it makes the life of the executor much easier and it doesn't give any headaches to the beneficiaries in the air and the people that must benefit from the estate. So another thing that's important is we recommend that once you do estate plan and the will do a financial needs analysis. So the financial needs analysis is once the estate has been rounded up and the estate planning was executed with the will, then there's people that will need to live from the money that you left them. And especially if you were the main breadwinner and you were the one that brought 80 or 90% of income home, those people, and I said it before, if I have a property and I've got three cars, but I can't pay the petrol and the insurance and I can't take the children to the school and I can't feed them what's to use. I will start to sell off those assets to just live over it. So a financial needs analysis, what it says is you take what you describe what you need, you describe what you have, and in the middle there's a gap and we call it the shortfall. And we determine with the financial needs analysis what is the shortfall. And it determines, for example, if you are 30 years old and you pass away today, how long would you like to provide for your wife and your children? So usually it's another 30 or 40 years. So the older you get, the shorter the gap becomes because you've got, you should have lesser dependence. So the shortfall becomes less, but the younger you are and the more dependence you have, the bigger the shortfall. I don't know if that addresses a bit of the insurance with the will a bit. At all, not only does it address it, but it actually links it even in a way that I hadn't thought through. And I suppose it's also because no children, no dependence, so really don't think about it too much. And you're correct. I think oftentimes we will say, if you've got a property or whatever, let's say it's a car and it might not even be paid up, you're giving XYZ when actually there was still quite a bit of debt in those things that you're also trying to pass over. And I think it actually leads very well then to my next question, which is in the event that there's outstanding debt, for instance, on a home loan. So whether it's only, for example, the primary residence or if you've got investment properties, but when you essentially have a home loan, does the beneficiary of the will also inherit that particular, we'll say, problem? So the house, two million, when you pass away, it's still owing 1.5. So is the beneficiary getting almost inheriting that 1.5 debt? How does it then effectively work out? So Zama again, a great question. And I'm going to be old and use me and my wife as an example and how I've done our estate planning. So with our estate planning, I made it clear to my wife that there will not be cash in the estate, but there will be enough money paid out to her to settle the liabilities. So for example, we have planned it in this way and I'm not saying this is the answer. I'm saying you advise and you can sit. But for us, my need was this that Ulandi will receive money upon my death and that the executor will come to her and say to a listen, you are the beneficiary for property A and assets B and C and D but there's no cash in the estate. Adolf did not leave any money bequeathed to the estate. He did a lot of life insurance policies, but it was all bequeathed to you. So how are we going to do this? And then Ulandi is prepared because I shared the estate planning with her and she will go to the executor. No issue. Give me the details where I must pay the money into to settle the debt so that you can transfer the property over to my name. And then there's no issue. So it doesn't mean your life insurance must be paid to the estate. In fact, that just just for interesting sake is if your beneficiaries, 100% is on the same page that what's happening on your estate planning. It's better to bequeath the money to their beneficiary. And it's simple reasons that if the money goes to a beneficiary and they are well aware that what they need to do with the money, the executor can take a fee on that money. So remember an executor can only take a fee. And maybe some of my absolute colleagues will go, but you know, the executors needs to live. Yeah, they can live. It's fine. But what I'm trying to say is an executor can generate fee from the property needs to transfer. But if he doesn't handle the money, if he doesn't, so if money goes directly from a life insurance policy to a beneficiary, he doesn't handle the money. So he cannot take fees on it. That doesn't make sense. So to come back to the beneficiaries, if your beneficiaries are, and I don't know how many parents does that, you know, and I think it's great that the parents that's around with the children say, listen, it's not a hot topic, but the reality is someday we will pass on. It's not if it's when. And I want you to know that there is the will. There is the estate plan. There is some insurance that's bequeathed to you and you and you. And this is how I want you to deal with the insurance. I can't regulate or dictate from the grave, but know that the executor will come to you guys and say to you, there's no money in the estate and that you will know that that amount of equity you must be used to settle the debt. If not, it's a reality that then it becomes a long process to wait for cash. And it's just it's just pulling out the whole process of winding up the estate and then eventually property must be sold at the unfair value. And that's not what you want. Oh, and it's definitely not something, you know, that people want. No, I'm going to your questions and comments at home. No, I'm listening, saying imagine leaving this world and people decide to sell your house and sharing, you know, crying faces there, which is quite a big one. Right. And I'm here saying the bond insurance covers your outstanding bond debts. Should you die? That's the policy I took on both the primary and the investment property. And I mean, I know this bond cover. It's a great bond cover. Not everybody takes the bond cover. It's not a requirement for you to have that particular cover. And so you tend to find that some people think, oh, no, this is just another thing that's been sold to me. And sometimes I don't see the value in it in that moment. Unfortunately. And I think this is these are the conversations that you should be having with your partner or certainly your children, because we know that we see the fights. Right. And more often than not, they're just unnecessary and people, other people end up making quite a lot of money from hard earned money that, you know, your parents put away as much as they could and works towards so that your partner put away. And I even like the insight that I'd also sharing that look, if everybody's on the same page, you already cut out, you know, one one party that gets a piece, that would get a piece of the money in the event where they are disputes. So you also want to be as efficient as possible as a family. I want us to go for a quick break and see who the lucky winner is of this evening's cash prize. We've got a thousand rounds. That's in the money bag before we come up. I see with the love that we're getting Vanessa now, watching Averaensha, Padaqi. It's also watching Tulu Simea, Sandy, Stemit, Polinank, or see Andre Pitot. I see all those comments. No, I'm not saying saying I'm saying I still stand where I said in part one that will is very important no matter what. And it really is a key thing that I think so many of us sometimes take for granted. But I want us to go for a quick break. See who the lucky winner is of that one thousand rounds that is in the money bag. And we're going to come back with more insights on the importance of having a well. And of course, I'm in conversation with Adolf von Nigger. Let's see who the lucky winner this evening is. And the and this evening's winner is TK Kumalo. Well, I hope you're watching wherever you are. TK Kumalo is the lucky winner. I can confirm. I don't know who TK Kumalo is. So it's not an inside thing. And I do hope that if they are watching, they'll be able to claim that prize. So I do hope he's at the very least able to make sure that he comes on to claim that one thousand rounds. I won't congratulate him just yet because we need to make sure that he comes in or that rather he is already in to claim that prize. One of the things I mean, I'm keen to hear because you've even shared it as you're sharing the way that you've planned your own family estate is is there a limit on the number of different life policies that you can get? Or can I get a life policy? Let's say, for example, I make all of them a million round, but with four different service providers as opposed to having one that is four million rounds. Like is there a limit when it comes to life policies that we take in terms of the number of policies? So Zama, again, it's a great question. And sorry, there's a lot of, there's a big storm on the side. So if the signal goes lost, I apologize. But to come back to your question, you can't limit the amount of policies. But when you go to insurer, I think everybody needs to understand the insurer is willing to take the risk for a premium. So the insurer will then determine how much insurance you need to especially keep your living standards. And what is a time when it comes to enriching? So for example, the sad thing is Zama, we get unfortunately, we're in a broken world and we've got fraudsters out there. So when you usually apply for life insurance, they don't look at the amount of policies you have. They look at the amount of cover you have for a certain benefit. So for example, you've got life cover, then you've got disability cover, and then you've got income protection and threat disease. So there's one benefit which we call threat disease that covers cancer and stroke and heart attacks, et cetera, et cetera, and threat diseases. There's no limit, but the standard in the industry is an enormous 4.5 million. But when it comes to income protection, lump sum disability and life cover, the only limit that determines is your current living lifestyle. So when you apply, your insurer should ask you, what is your current gross income and what is your current living expenses, especially when it comes to determining how much cover they think is fair, but they have their calculations. So it does happen sometimes that people will apply, especially when it comes to business assurance. So when example, a property owner wants to cover his commercial property and they apply for insurance and the insurer will ask, but do you have other insurance in place to cover this property upon death or disability? If he says yes, then they will do investigation with other insurers. So there's a body, I think it's called a CISA, and they go and check, all the life insurance is linked to this system, and they go and see what is the type of insurance and the amount that you have. The bottom line is you can have 100 policies, but the value and the total sum assured of all the policies combined, there is a limit and it depending on your income and your needs. So there is always a rule that the insurer will apply. So that means Adolf, I can't decide. Look, I'm going to take up life insurance that's for 60 million rounds when I'm nowhere near that lifestyle at the moment. And even if I say, look, I'll take the premium. So even if the premium is 12,000 rounds a month, I'm like, it's fine, I'll take the premium as long as the payout is going to be 60 million rounds. I think that, I mean, look, I also understand it because I think at some point, you're not trying to, as you were saying, enrich. I think one of the key things with that kind of insurance is that you want to make sure that your death doesn't financially cripple your family or sometimes even has them losing things, having to get out of school or not being able to maintain the kind of lifestyle that they had prior to you passing away. Now Adolf, then what happens in the event where a miner is a beneficiary? How is that impacted when it comes to how the will gets executed? Okay, passionate about this, Zomar, thanks. I actually get response when you ask this question. So the first thing that must come to mind is remember the law of a miner is that it's a person that's under 18 years old. So if you just think about this for a moment and you take it that, let's say we had a child that's 10 years old and we pass away both my wife, me and my wife in a car accident. So this, yeah, I mean, but anyway, I'll get you. When we have a proper estate plan and a will in place, what is critical in that will is that the few, it's who's the guardian of that child. And you usually want to point the guardian that is not, he or she is financially independent. So meaning they don't want to be like Jaws and await an opportunity to, oh, yes, yes, money coming from Adolf and Yolande's estate. So the person must be financially sound. He must go out to work with money and he's there to look for the benefit of your child. So that's the first thing, who will be your guardian? The second thing is on the will is make sure you refer and your wishes that testamentary trust is drafted and that the trust for the child is immediately set up once you pass away. So all that it happens, I want to explain it as a safe event. So it's like a net where all the money for your child is going into this account, but nobody can come and fetch this money without approval from the trustees. And what you usually then do is in your will, you name who that trustees must be. And usually you appoint more than one trustee. So when it comes in our space, what we usually suggest for customers is, let absent trust be one of the trustees and let the family member or two family members be co-trustees because what is nice about this is the trustees will never benefit from that money that is that must go to your minor. They must manage it for the benefit of the minor. They will never benefit from it. So it will be your guardian, it will be your trustees and make sure there's a testamentary trust. The sad thing is, if you don't stipulate this properly in your will, for a minor, money is then paid what we call it to a guardians fund. And the guardians fund will then, it's fine, they will keep the money for the minor, but only until age 18. And that's where the other challenge now comes in. And just think about this, Zama. If you, when you and me were still 18 years old, and let's say at that stage, for whatever reason, we inherited 5 million bucks and the money must be paid out because there was not proper testamentary trust in place, what would you do with 5 million bucks when you're 18 years old? Okay, now, how many friends will you have? Look, I mean, out of our lie, at 18, I actually already had an interesting property out of probably bought a building and wouldn't have done that research. That's you, okay. But I know many of us would have bought a car probably, and all sorts of crazy things and probably hosting all kinds of parties. And I've seen those stories, unfortunately. When at 18, you're suddenly a millionaire at a drop of a hat, and often within a year, two years max, all of it is gone. And you don't even have an asset that's paid off to show for it. And you'd be like, there was a time, there was 3 million in my account that literally went in and you're swiping and swiping everywhere. And it's always just so sad to hear of those stories. So to come back exactly, so I had the scenario where an advisor said that he's sitting with a problem, there's a testamentary trust drafted, but the age was still 21. So when we advise customers, we advise that that age, when you will give the miner the access to that money, you can determine that age, but don't think it will not be for the benefit of the miner. And remember what happens is, when your miner or when your child needs to go to school, needs to study, needs to drive to the college, needs close, it's not that the trustees will not look after the beneficiaries' needs, the miner's needs, but they will manage and determine what is a need and what is a want. And that's where the balance comes in. And the purpose of the trustees then will be to say, it's clearly stipulated that our testamentary trust says that you will only have access to this money at age 25 or 30. In the meantime, we will make sure that your studies are paid for, that you get a living expense, that you get a property to live in, that you get a car to drive and that you have clothes to wear and you've got medical scheme. But we're not going to waste money, we're going to preserve it as much as possible, and that's the benefit of a proper draw of the testamentary trust in your world. And Adolf, when we then talk about that testamentary trust, one of the things financial advisor speaking to and having this conversation with and even other friends who we would talk about wills is this notion of sort of running people's lives from the grave because some wills can be quite hectic and you're still dictating from the grave, are parents, loved ones, whoever drafts this will, can you make one of the provisions, for instance? So you already say that, let's say that you make the full amount at age, let's say 21. Are you able to also, for instance, include that at that age, whether it's 21 or 25, sometimes I've seen where it's 30, that they must already have, for instance, an honest degree and that in the failure to have obtained tertiary degree X, then you can't give it. So it's either it's at 25 on condition that education level X is met. And if it's not met by, let's say, age 28, for instance, then this money goes through charity, for instance. Is that something that can actually be included in the world? I mean, I've heard of very few rare instances and I know some parents already I'm preemptively thinking, we're having open conversations, we're telling their children, there's this money, there's this world, there's this. And we know we're doing it from a preparing the children, they're already going to be in shock, should parents pass away. But unfortunately, out of the flip side of it, we also know that kids can get very easily lazy and complacent, knowing that, well, I mean, I know it's 21, I'm going to get 3 million, why do I need to do anything? And even though from 18 to 21, they're being taken care of, but there isn't that sense of, I'm now taking responsibility, I still want to be a member of society. Are parents able to put provisions of that nature? Okay, so Zama, the answer is yes. I mean, I can put as many and as much conditions as they want to. The sensitivity about this is, I just want to come back to what I spoke about the children. That open conversation with the children, usually you will have with a person that's an adult and that knows how to deal with money. A person that's a minor, you don't have that conversation with him. You have that conversation with your trustees that's on your will and the guardian that's been nominated on your will. They need to know about this. So usually, I mean, if you take the sad examples where we with COVID, the children loses their mom and their dad and it's young parents and the young children, they don't need to know about the detail, but what they need to know is once they get older, they will hear that their parents drafted a great will and a trust for them and they made sure that there's a good guardian and a good trustee setup for them that protected their money so that when they get older and they've got better stewardship and value for money, they will know what to do with it. So to come back is you can put the conditions, but we also had some court cases in the past where the husband, for example, wrote that he wants his wife to receive this amount of living expenses. But the thing is, he drafted the will in 1980 and then he passed away in 2010. So he never amended his will. So then there was a court case to say, but what was the intention of the test date? And then it becomes, and the trustee cannot go over and above what is the rule set up in the testamentary trust. They must adhere to that rule. So all I'm saying is that you must be very careful why you want to put certain conditions, but I must also be honest with you that we had circumstances where the parents come and say, listen, my child cannot work with money. My child is 45 years old and this is happening. And we must then still make sure that there's a trust for this 45-year-old child because they use it on the wrong stuff. So then the children come and say, but why must this money go in the trust? Your parents wanted to make sure that you get benefits from this money as long as possible. So we are just executing what your parents wanted us. So it's about why you put that condition and how stringent you want to be, but you can put the conditions whatever you want, but just be careful that you don't, as you say, your intention must be valid, Zama. The intention is always a question. And we're running out of time again because this really is one of those, I almost think we must do a series when it comes to this because it's a pressure point for us. Children, people have children, sometimes have even their parents. And we tend to shy away when it comes to talking about finances at this granular level and even communicating these things to your children or to your spouse because you think, that's why they were going to now be banking on me passing away or whatever the case is. Before I wrap up though, Adolf, what then becomes the timeframe of estates being wind up? Because we hear stories of sometimes even four or five years after somebody has passed away and the state still hasn't been round up. Give us a sense of what makes the process, and just based on this conversation, I know viewers at home already have gotten a sense of what makes it easier, but what makes the process quicker and the quickest one? How long typically is that? And what are some of the challenges that then make it so thrown out that you sometimes still have people who are like seven years after somebody has passed away and the state still hasn't been adequately round up? Okay. So Zama, pre-COVID when everything was in place, your world was in place, there's sufficient liquidity, there's a proper plan draft that everybody knows what's to do and the executive doesn't have to run around, it took six months to settle in a state. Past COVID, when everything is in place, we're speaking about nine months to a year and the reason is because of the amount of estates that must be registered and distributed and resolved with the master of law court. So there's too many work and too little resources. So you can now prepare yourself for, I will be conservative to say yeah. And the sad thing is if these, if the will and the liquidity and the estate planning is not in place and not properly planned, then the time is unlimited. I mean, we still know, I'm sure there's people watching that says it's been five years, it's 10 years. We don't know when their state will be winded up. So my suggestion is we always speak about this. Go and review your will, make sure that you're comfortable with how money must be distributed and if there's sufficient funds. Speak to your trusted advisors or family and let them know where the world is and what must happen. And if you can trust your family and relatives who did do so, but it will make their lives much easier, Zama. If you just plan properly, it's like writing an exam. I spoke to you about my exam that I wrote last week. You know, you can't go into the exam and expect that it will go absolutely smooth but you didn't prepare. And the same is with the will and the winding up of the estate. You can't expect that your family will have a smooth ride resolving estate but you didn't plan properly. So rather do it properly and we can help with that. We would love to help with that. I think if you want to get in touch with the team we have shared their contact details down here below and I think that's a great place to leave it at. You've certainly given me a lot of insight that I also hadn't thought by the time I, if I ever am crazy enough to have children, I at least already have some insights and tips on how to best manage the family estate. You will not be crazy to have children, Zama. It's a privilege to have children. Having children is crazy. All that matter, always just think of tuition fees. You know, when you look at how much cash alone just costs, you're like, oh my word, I get a heart attack. But we're going to leave it there this evening. Thank you so much for joining us and for indulging us for part two of this conversation. It's been a pleasure to have you on the show. Yes, thanks Zama, I appreciate it. And that is Erofa Negar because the head of business development, virtual distribution, and apps, insurance, and financial advisors. Wrapping up the Wednesday edition of the Private Property Podcast with myself is Amandonga Kumalo. Unfortunately, TK Kumalo, Amandonga, you've disappointed me. He was not watching us live and so we're going to have 1,500 rands rolling over to in the money bag for tomorrow's show. I'm unfortunately not going to be with you tomorrow, so I'll be back on your screens on Friday. Until then, of course, at 8 p.m., you can look forward to the first-time homebuyer's show with Esti Klassen. And I'll be back on Friday. Until then, hope you're staying home and staying safe.