 The Ted Heath thing as well, the former prime minister, how did that story come about? Right listen, Ted Heath was of no consequence to me, absolutely none whatsoever. He was one of thousands, right? There was no sexual penetration, it happened. And I was, so now this again shows where the authorities lie and tell lies. I'm under the care of the courts. The authorities have me under their care under a court order. So in legal speak they are acting as my parents, yeah? We agree with that, yeah? They state that at the school that I'm talking about where this incident happened, that I was on home leave. Again the question has to be asked, where was home? Because there ain't no record of it. And bearing in mind that they were my legal guardians, I stayed at the school during the home leave, right? I'd go to Shirley Oaks or the Hollies, play up, they couldn't handle me, I'd go back to the school and finish holidays there. A guy called Max Sharman who was the deputy headmaster said, did I want to go sailing? Yes, I was the only boy there, nothing else to do, he's either there or do fucking chores, gardening, which I didn't want to do. So we went to a place called Pin Mill, which was then a little yachty have, nothing. There were no gin panties, they were sailing boats, probably up to 30, 35 foot the most. And we went sailing, there was four of us, me, Ted Heath, I didn't know who he was, the doctor from the school and the fucking deputy headmaster. And I was told to go nude swimming, which I did. Ted Heath dried me, gave me a blowjob, played me with Willie, had me do kiss him, well he was kissing more than blowing me corn on his swimming, and got me to do the same to him. And that was the extent of it. I got half a crown and a fag, that was the extent of it. It didn't open, didn't happen in the open, we went in the cabin on this thing, just a single cabin. It's so bad though. Of course it's bad, but there was nothing I could do. I couldn't have said no, although you'd think at 13, 14 years old you know. But if you haven't got anybody, right, to back your corner, who the hell do you tell? See at that time, Michael, see because you've been through all that much with the rapes and the abuse, was that becoming the kind of the norm, that it was actually becoming normal, that adults were treating you like that? For me, we were pieces of meat, hence the name the meat rack. But do I think Edward Heath was a pedophile? Yes, I've spoken to Michael Tarragher and somebody called James Reeves, Mike Veal, Chief Constable of Wiltshire Police, who led the investigation into looking into whether Edward Heath, the former prime minister was a pedophile. I know about him, I know what's happened to him, since he tried to lead that investigation and lead the truth. It was Edward Heath, a pedophile, you asked me what I can say with conviction. I believe with conviction our former prime minister, Edward Heath, was a pedophile. One other thing I can say with conviction, I believe BBC Panorama have produced programs that have displayed very dodgy journalistic ethics and they've had an agenda and they have presented lies. I'm happy as a journalist to come forward and say that. They could sue me if they like. I've got enough evidence to support those statements.