 what's happening with human rights around the world on ThinkTech, broadcasting from a downtown studio in Honolulu, Hawaii and Moana, New York. I'm your host, Joshua Cooper. The title of today's episode is Nuclear Free and Independent Pacific Forever, Pacific Nations Reflect on Rights. Joining me today are two amazing advocates from Moana, New York, the Grand Pacific. And I'd like to thank them both for joining us. Thank you so much. Thank you for having us. Thank you for having us. It's a pleasure to have you. We're here today because March is commemorated in Oceania to reflect on the human rights movement for self-determination through decolonization and demilitarization. And our conversation will focus on the power of peaceful movements rooted in cultural contributions for social change in the Pacific. March 1st, though, is also known as Nuclear Victims Remembrance Day. Hallie, could you share with us why that's such an important date that we should all focus on and really reflect on throughout all of March? Well, March 1st is really important in the Pacific because all of the nuclear testing that happened, it was conducted by mainly the US and the UK and in different parts of the Pacific. And it's a legacy that a lot of Pacific Islanders have forgotten about. So with March 1st, we can raise awareness about the injustice of all the nuclear testing that has happened and all of the Islanders who lost their indigenous land in the Marshall Islands, entire islands were sunk and people still haven't been able to return to their home islands because of it. Thank you. And Manu, would you like to add a bit as well about March 1st? Yes, as what the lay was mentioning that it is a legacy for every Pacific individual. It stands as a remembrance of what was scarred into our hearts, what happened to us before will not be forgotten. So March 1st acts as a reminder to each and every individual that it is a very important date for us for nuclear activities that happened. Yes, March 1st was the commemoration of the Bravo test which was the first one but how many were actually conducted to lay and what are some of the long-term consequences related to this horrible, really atomic annihilation? I'm not sure about the exact number of tests that were conducted but I do know that because they were conducted in the Marshall Islands, islands were sunk and because they didn't even give proper equipment to the Islanders, in some cases like in Kiribati. So people were affected like health-wise and they didn't know what was happening to them. Like I read that some Islanders thought that there were snowflakes from the ashes that were falling and they didn't know that it was poisonous so they just stayed where they were. Maybe Manu would probably know more about. Well, I know one thing, one test is too many and we know that they were into the 66 or 67 but Manu, please share your perspective as well. Based on what I've known that the United States have both probably technically released 66 nuclear bombs into the Marshall Islands and that has affected a lot of people probably caused diseases as well and would probably also added on 170 cancers from then, that is based on the National Cancer Institute analysis, which I have read before. Well, and Tle, you brought up such an important point is that no one knew what was happening and the lack of really free prior informed consent by the military at the time to at least let people be aware is truly a crime against Manu to just see the way that was done and over and over and over again. Yeah, and there's been no justice all these years later. It's a part of the specific culture to be very welcoming and I think sometimes we can be too welcoming and very naive when foreigners come to our shore we allow them to come into our homes and in many cases we listen to what they tell us is best for us, especially all those years ago. I can imagine just what the islanders believe was happening and I did watch this documentary where these American soldiers were saying they're doing this for the advancement of mankind to make mankind better. But yeah, they just destroyed these people's communities and took away their homes. Manu, would you like to add on those points? I just wanted to add on that like the ocean is what the Pacific people rely on and having these nuclear activities being brought into the Pacific it was quite new for us to be introduced into this nuclear weapons and all those and so having us rely on the ocean is crucial and yeah, and I think we should also increase awareness that these people have rights to a healthy environment. Thank you so much, Manu and you bring up so many points both of you because Oceania is a region that's rooted in respect and reciprocity and the people's movements have actually shaped the Pacific to be one of resilience with aspirations for all but you really both brought up some excellent points. First, Tlaig, that there was really a lack of any respect at all for those cultures that they would conduct all of those tests and the point that you raised it was done in Micronesia by the United States but then also you had France doing the testing in the Pacific down in French occupied Polynesia. So you could see that really throughout all of Oceania there were nuclear tests done and more importantly there was no attention to try to help to prevent some of these health risks and more importantly deaths and the other aspect that Manu brought up as well that I think we can dig deeper into is the contamination the nuclear, the shelf life is forever and bringing that in without ever thinking of the people I think Tlaig brought up a point that I remember in a video too that they had goats and people and they were thinking of the people as human guinea pigs and the last point you raised was saying it was we're sacrificing the people of Micronesia for the betterment of human security for the future of peace with mankind and all those points I think we could really dig at and explore deeper. Yeah, they would never have tested these nuclear weapons on US soil when they were talking about advancing humanity and how this is the best thing for mankind they would never have done it in their home country because they knew that what they were doing was going to affect these people possibly forever. Thank you and they did unfortunately they did test even but it's always testing I think where it brings up this issue that maybe Manu you were hinting at but environmental racism is because they did do it in the United States in Nevada where the Western Shoshone people are but if we look at the trend of almost any country or imperial power they only do it where the indigenous peoples live and have never respected really the sacred relationship with the environment. And what you said really reminds me as well we were in Tahiti during those nuclear tests and we went there to protest that with evolution 2000 and it's that aspect of not recognizing the humanity in the indigenous peoples that racism but then also linking it with the climate crisis that we have now today. If no indigenous people would have ever done such thing as a nuclear test to mother nature knowing the consequences of how that would ripple down stream but the West ability to compartmentalize and not connect consequences has had huge impacts for all of humanity. Manu is there anything you'd like to build on that? Well, I want to add on since you've mentioned like the imperial countries they directly affected especially indigenous countries such as Tahiti. I think one of the main reasons why we're still struggling is because the indigenous countries they spread across the vast Pacific Ocean and so communication tends to be quite a problem there. So reaching out this hinders the communication that might otherwise effectively give extend the suffering like here the sufferings in Tahiti and from nuclear testing such as that. So yeah, that is all that I wanted to add on. No, and you brought up a great point that I know most recently the Marshall Islands are now members of the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva and they're pushing the aspect of the right to a clean and healthy environment. And they were one of the sponsors when that was just adopted in September of last year. So that right to a clean healthy environment is now recognized in international law to have a clean, healthy and sustainable environment. What you brought up as well though is it's true the legacy of nuclear colonialism continues because indigenous peoples in Pacific Island nations in some ways are not able to control that land and that the sad part is I remember being in Tahiti when we were there, you knew that the fish that everyone was eating because that is the refrigerator that's where everybody gets their nutrients. We know that the tests have been happening there and that the fish were contaminated. And so it's putting together all of those aspects. What are some of the most important health issues related to cancer that have been documented that everyone in the world should be aware of going forward? So then? I think Manu can probably expand on this further. Okay. Well, from what I've read that based on the article of Nuclear, sorry National Cancer Institute they mentioned that possibly cause cancer is, of course is sorry, made by radioactive like exposed to radioactive but they have mentioned that certain parts of the body such as thyroid, stomach, colon it's caused by this excessive radioactive due to nuclear fallout. So yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's that aspect of the most important right is really the right to health and health is wealth and health is everything as we all know but unfortunately the actions by the government of these empires of Europe and the US that are then in the Pacific have this lasting legacy. What should be done now to change these poor conditions? Do you think? How can we reverse the trend? I think that the US should start to teach their own people about the nuclear legacy that they created in the Pacific. They should acknowledge what happened here and what their former government did because it's not like the people who are in power now did this to the Pacific but they can definitely make preparations by acknowledging it, apologizing for it and then looking for looking at how they can help the environment, what they can do for the nuclear tomb that's in the Marshall Islands. We've all read that it's leaking and some scientists say it's just as toxic outside now as it is inside and the American government hasn't really made a serious commitment to what they're gonna do to help Marshall Islands now. So that's an excellent point bringing up the dome and what we're talking about is not ancient history. It still exists now and it's impacting people's lives in the islands today. That's why every person matters and every hour matters when we think what could be done and how we should do that. Manu, what would you like to add to that? I think the very term nuclear reaction is foreign to Pacific people and although our lives are so much dependent on nuclear energy from the sun we need to talk with the people, the cultural activity of the funnel to increase awareness via targeted strategies, spread the word, make things visual so that pictures can imprint the effect words alone cannot do. So Pacific people are visual learners. They want handling activities that relates to our everyday living, make activities meaningful and thoughtful, provoking. If this is the effects on them, what about us, our little country? Yeah. No, it's a powerful point and when we think also about what's going on today in Ukraine, the world could be facing, even though we said we were doing this to prevent this from all future conflicts, we could be having that happen very soon. And what is it about nuclear that every nation on the world needs to know to make sure that it doesn't happen to anyone else? So then. Well, we see, especially in the Pacific, I don't know how things are in Hawaii, but in Fiji we just see it as such a foreign issue that nuclear weapons can never affect us. And a lot of my Fijian friends don't even know that nuclear testing was done so extensively in the Pacific. And I think that we really need to make people understand, especially here that nuclear weapons, nuclear power plants, it's such a current issue that at any time it just takes one dictator to make a decision that will change millions of lives, destroy the environment that people live in that will cause refugees for decades to come and who knows what the fallout will be if the Russia and Ukraine conflict escalates. You really bring up the most important point ever. Pacific Islanders living on islands have a better understanding of the fragility of this beautiful planet we live on. And that one step, one action can actually destroy it, not just for the people today, but for many future generations. Montez, is there anything you'd like to add regarding what the people of the Pacific have as a message for the rest of the world because of the historic harms that have happened due to the atomic annihilation through these tests in Oceania? Well, I think that Pacific people would want their voices to be heard out into the open, even though we are very, we are small, but we are significant. And that's the saying that goes out to each and every one of us. We have this thing that I would agree with Dali that from our end, we think that nuclear activities is just foreign activities. So it's quite new for us. That's nuclear reaction. It's really foreign for us, Pacific Island. But the impacts that we have, we are the ones who are most vulnerable to it. So I think that the imperial countries should have a second thought on what they are doing, especially the nuclear fight between Ukraine and Russia. Yeah. It's so true. I mean, and as we looked at March as nuclear free and independent Pacific forever reflecting throughout this entire month, we really understand that the human rights movement primary focus is self-determination as well as social justice, to indicate the protection of the Pacific Ocean. And really we see so many crises impacting the islands at the same time. We see this one with nuclear still lingering. We see the COVID crisis. We also see the climate one. And I think that's probably the lesson and more importantly, the vision and values that the Pacific can share with the world as we look at the future in this only one planet that we have, the issue of self-determination could have been taken because nuclear testing and people not able, as Tel Aviv brought up in the beginning to return to that sacred land to harvest it because of its contamination. But the same we can say for self-determination with climate crisis. I know I was in Fiji as well in 2020 before all had changed for many of us and Fiji had moved some of the first villages with a human rights-based approach regarding the climate crisis. Maybe you could share with us some aspects of the voice from the Oceania for the whole world on the current climate crisis and how we can guarantee self-determination for all people tonight. So in Fiji, I think that personally if we're going to combat the climate crisis and have more conservation we need to go back to practicing our own culture. We have lost a lot of our culture, especially in recent years. We have had our ethnicity renamed from being Fijians as the indigenous people too, it's okay, which is not a word that was special to us, I would say. And then we are also slowly losing the management of our land, just indigenous Fijians on the majority of land in Fiji. And when we own our own land we actually conserve it much more. And I was a part of research recently about deforestation of islands. And we found that if a foreigner owns an island so much of the island, they had so much deforestation. But if it was kept in our hands, like my own island and other islands and in my province for my BT, we keep nature as it should be. We don't just cut down trees and call it development for us culturally that wouldn't be development. I was recently in my island and I was talking to my aunties, my aunts about how we can help to develop our island. And they were saying, no, we must leave nature as it is because when we leave the environment as it is, it serves us. If we were to change that then we don't know what will happen, how it will destroy the environment. So I definitely think that going back to our own cultural values, our own indigenous conservation will help. It's an excellent point. And it's true when they look at the world with 5% of the land in indigenous hands, that's where 80% of the world's biodiversity is. So what you're saying is absolutely correct. And also the UN sustainable development goals, those 17 global goals are really the wisdom of indigenous peoples. And definitely that you see in Fiji on a daily basis prior to contact and colonization. And so I appreciate those aspects that you're sharing in Fiji. And the last part I remember when I was there was we were trying to stop a Chinese corporation from Black Sand Mining just there up the road from Nandi and we were able to then stop that. But it was, of course, deals that were made by corporations in the name of development that were really destruction in a way ruining one of the most beautiful countries in the world, of course. It looks like one last thing we could say as we're closing to lay is in Fiji, I know that's really seen as the center of Oceania and many worlds. Of course, the UN has all of their agencies there. And I know right now I think the commission on the status of women is also looking at the important issue of the environment and climate. Is there anything you'd like to share with the world from Fiji about what we should do going forward? I've been a part of these groups that have been researching conservation and I also work in conservation full-time. And we've just keep finding that traditional fisherwomen in our villages, they have very sustainable practices for fishing or conserving their coastline. And these are just things that we need to teach people and encourage in the next generation because Fijians are losing so much of our culture, I think in my generation. We need to bring back workshops to teach our own people, our own language and how our culture is wrapped up in the language and then conservation in such an important part of the culture because we have to keep our land and we have to keep our coastline for the next generation passing it on for our descendants is so important. That's probably the best way to end is really we are the kupuna or the ancestors for future generations and we have to leave the world better than we found it but you really bring up some great points because those values that have been really lost and targeted by the colonial powers, we must really dig deep into the language, into the culture and revitalize those. And I've seen many aspects of that happening with the vaca, with the canoe here with Hokulea but also in Fiji as well. And hopefully we can navigate a path together to make sure that not only in March but throughout the world and throughout every month people are aware of Oceania and the beauty and the bravery of the people of the Pacific. Thank you so much for joining us to lay and look forward to organizing more in the region and make sure that Oceania is able to exercise that right of self-determination and be nuclear free and independent forever. Thank you so much for having me on it. I hope to connect with the guys. Mahalo Nui. Thank you so much for watching Think Tech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and LinkedIn and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.