 It's coming right along. Is it working, Dave? I'm opening it up. The truck is going to be under Alfred's truck. The truck will be under Alfred's recorder. Oh, okay. I'll give you the same space. Yeah, you can go back to sleep. I'll give you my start to go. Did you ever think I'd find that so good? I don't know. It's not funny because I did get up at 12. Great, this is quick. And then this is my husband, Greg. And this is Katie. Hi. Nice to meet you. All right, I'm going to turn it off. Let me try. Point it at the matter. Yeah. Oh, well, Katie's printing here. And I'm Stormy Daniels. It's your glasses. Good one. I appreciate it. Once you've been with Trump, that changes everything. I'm under an NDA. I can't discuss it anymore. Copy of mine, but it's got red in it. All right, let's get started anyway. Thank you for coming. We did our site visit last Monday, the second. Alfred has, or somebody has things marked. Got to get the curve cut application back here. They are. So any of the board members have any questions for Meg? Good site distance. It's the entry way down toward John Rosenblum's house, right? That's one of them. Well, that's the one for the residential. No, I got it. So the residential development is going to be down the other end of the field. So, yeah, we're in the Browden Hill opposite the swimming area. That doesn't have good site distance. Yeah, 300 feet. We did it. Oh, at the top, by the swimming area. Right across the swimming area. So there's two different applications that's put in. One was for our residential, which is directly opposite the swimming area. And, like, directly opposite. So there's an existing, like, farm. And that's not safe, and that's very scary. That's what I was totally agreeing with. But right on the crest of the hill, you should see two markers. Are those the ones that say GMP on it? No, those are further down on top of the hill. I guess I didn't know. So anyway, they're marked, and they're right at the crest of the hill. Maybe we should open up the map. We went together, and the site distance was greater than 300 feet, either way, from there. I've totally impetrified by that other road. Yeah, because we saw that farm, that farm access one. And we were like, we hope they're not using this one. But is that farm access one still going to be the farm access one? No. Down here. So if you're, the ponds here, here's north. Right, the ponds here. Exactly right here is the, the, okay, this is the road you were looking at. So here's where the parking is for the pond. And what you saw, which is this thing is here. But there are two stakes here, and it's directly opposite that. That's the one I thought it was. Right at the crest of the hill. And it feels much safer. There's some ledge there, so that's going to have to be taken away. For sure. There's a road that goes diagonally through the woods. Right there. Oh, that's here. Oh, okay. So this will meet up with that. So this is the one that had stakes to GMP on? Right, I think so. I thought it was green mountain power. What is GMP stand for? It might be recycled stakes. What is this for? So this is for the farm stand. So this is going to be the agricultural land. Okay. And so. And this is a rose and bloom over here? Rose and bloom is over here. So we did the 10 feet from there and placed them. And then this is the Washington electric easement. To be property makers. So this is just, this is all also not set in stone. This is just kind of an idea. But this would be the farm access. So we'd be separating the public from the private. So we're coming here to the homes. What happened? What's going to happen with this? That's not a curve cut. Well, it's been used by farm trucks. So it's existing. Yeah, it's existing. But we have no interest in using it. It's too scary. So this would be abandoned. That's what I'm talking about. Yes. It's too scary. So if this is right here. Summing area is here. I know in the summertime it can be really. People parking. Parking. People walking. How's that going to work? Well, we've got signs up for no parking on that side. We've always had them up there. Yeah. So people aren't supposed to park on that side of the road. That was headed a lot years ago. Yeah. So will it be congested sometimes? Yes. Probably will. Because people do park. Yeah. You know, on the other side. But it would be a rare occasion that all of these houses would be vacating at the same time. You know, it's just going to be people kind of going to the store. So are going to work and being aware of, you know. So you're looking at one curb cut to serve multiple dwellings, right? Yes. The goal is that we're trying to decrease the amount of infrastructure that all these houses would do normally. So, you know, we could be spread out across the property and that would be gross. So we're sharing septics, sharing driveway. We'll have one primary line underground from the utility and then secondary lines into the houses, shared driveway. We've met with the fire chief. One of our representatives has met with him. He hasn't done a site visit yet. Well, that was one of my questions was about emergency vehicles being able to get through in the summertime when there's cars parked. Well, there won't be more cars parked because it's because these guys are parking here. Right. Whatever's on the road is the same that's always on the road. And then now, yeah. So could they say this? Did the fire chief say that? Not yet. They're doing a site visit. Oh, actually, I don't know if they showed any maps. My guess is not, because my guess is not. But he was going to do a site visit. He talked about, you know, snow removal, solar, there's adequate space. We've got a T-juncture here. There might be one up here as well. For turn around? For turn around, yeah. You know, for the emergency vehicles. We have a wider bank here for this term for us. And this would be, you know, state specs for entrance. Okay. P-71. Has that not as an administrator just a curious person? Why not use the farm access for the primary driving of the development? There's a number of reasons. We did consider that, because first of all, we have this easement right here. Okay. So we can't use this to access now. And so that's out of the question. So we'd have to come up this way. And right here is 15, greater than 15% grade slope. And then we've got our septic here. So we couldn't hear, it would be very tight between this 15% grade. So then we have to come out here. And this right just below this 75-foot setback is where the water naturally drains. So this is a wet area. So that we plan to mitigate that by swales and things. But this just, we would have to go around our whole septic and come in this way. And it just didn't make, seemed to make a lot of sense. And it would just, this is the most prime agricultural land as well. The best soils on the whole property. And then the rest are also very high during the next grade down. So it just, you know, we did think about it. Like, why don't we do it that way? There's another option because we have owned land from County Road. But then again, there's a huge amount of ledge here. We'd have to be down in the belly. There's another big, right through here is low grade. So there's all the water streams here. So we'd be coming through here. And then we've got our septics here. These are the only place that they perk, not the only. There's other perks, but they're either right in the middle of the houses. So we would have to come right through the center. And again, that just didn't make sense. That couldn't happen. Well, this is right here. So we can't, we can't build. I think you can see that line there. We can't build here. So this is the space we'd have. And right, that is the setback for the septic. Right. So you could build in there. Right in here. But this is 15% greater than 15% grade, which is another issue. What's the grade where you're planning to put? Oh, not at all. It's really steep here. But where you're blasting to get the, you've got to blast by four and five feet to get this new driveway. Here? Yeah. I'm sorry, right here. Yeah. There appears to be ledge. We don't know whether we're going to have to blast it. It could be, you know, gradable ledge. We don't know until we get in there. But still, I mean, there's a grade here that is way exceed 15%. Right. But you're plowing right through it. Like you're eliminating it. Yeah. Yeah. This is just really tight. And we also, they're ideally will be a farm stand here. So separating the public from the private, not having our, you know, household going in that way. I guess, I guess I still just have some concerns with the amount of activity that I know goes on on that road in the summer. I mean, you used to live in Calisthenics. Oh yeah, I know. So you know, you live really close to there. So I'm sure you saw the traffic. I think part of it too is being residents here, we'd be more alert versus people who are traveling through that are less sensitive. Right. Right. People from all over come. Exactly. And so, you know, we would be more alert. And so that would be good. But, you know, can't really control. Would you be putting up privacy signs because you don't want people parking in your driveway either? I mean, I could see people going swimming. You can't find a place to park on the road. There's a driveway there. I'll just go up there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, the parking lot folks have come to us and I said, well, I don't know the property yet, but I mean, we would have to see how that goes, of course. Right. If we can start parking our driveway, that would be a problem. Right. We would have signs. Yeah. So are these slots already committed? These are people who bought these? Yep. They're all. It's a community effort. Wow. Yeah. The issue of ICI, I don't see this being an issue but it's still 12 cars maxed, two cars per house. They're not all coming out lining up to go to work. That's why we're living for a month. The only issue I see, and that's on you guys, is that you're going to have a potential nuisance here that's going to, that sometimes you're above these people and I'm going to be probably very insensitive to complaints at the select board because people are too loud at the swimming area and they're going to pick the party and someone there doesn't like it because they get, I'm going to be really insensitive because I see that as moving to the nuisance. So just so you know, move to Madison Avenue in New York, expect traffic and beeping horns and move here, expect there's a very active recreational area in the summer and those people, I'm hoping they're aware of that. Yeah. So the nice thing about the people that are part of this group, they're farmers up at the Wards, they're the rotational grazers so they've been there for two summers. Great, and Erin, and Erin Newman. So they're very aware of the scenario and the other, so there's myself and my husband John and then there's two other parties, one's from Montpelier and they know the area very well. They used to live in Woodbury and the other are from Jericho but their best friends are Heidi and Louis and they're here all the time and they love. Everybody's very aware of the noise and what the pond brings and that's one of the benefits. But you know, if it isn't people like that, I'm saying we already get calls, I have to call the sheriff to come and do patrols because people are parking or they shouldn't be doing things they shouldn't. So that's just part of the deal along this area and I see this is adding to that. Our primary goal as a community that's had to work together to figure out how to do this is respectful communication so it would be the first line of communication to people and say this is a driveway and put up signs if we needed to get there. And just so you, I mean just so everybody's totally aware of the front. I know the drill, I know the scenario. Okay and you're saying this is going to continue to be a private road. The town's not going to do any maintenance on this road. Okay. You've got some good road names. No. I can't wait. How does that, how do you determine for roads? For like, is there any criteria? I have no idea. I don't think so. Okay. So you want viewers okay? Yup. Just the sign has to be a certain set of dimensions and the federal standards which were allocated to the dogs like so. Right. Don't order a sign. Don't order a sign. That's not a way because we're, because you'll order the wrong sign. Oh yeah. Well is it going to be a private road or a drive? It's a private road. It's a private road. Yeah. Once it has more than what? Four. Four. That's a trigger. Right. Alfred, are we going to need a culvert here? Well, which one? At this. Down below. The driveway? No. At the top. No, you won't need a culvert there. And this one here we will? Yup. We talked about maybe not. Oh, it's what is it. And there we don't know where the water is coming from. Right. So ours would definitely, but it's whether or not it would impact the neighbor. Right. Yeah. But you still got water coming from the neighbor's driveway which we'll have to travel under your car. Right. Alright. Alfred, do you want to come over? This way. I'm talking about culverts. Where's the town culvert? I remember when you were coming up, you were running into a condom spring. It doesn't work. I don't know. Where's right here? I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. He talked out that maybe he would have come out and did not give that grandson skill at all a snake at that launch. Take that on Rican. She can't turn up. But you also mentioned that maybe that might go in and out and decide on who's moving if it works out. No problem. It's simple. Yeah. We don't get that all this water over here. You're welcome. It's got to go somewhere. It's either going under the car. Sure. We can't be doing this when we're trying to do this. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, in the future, well, in the permanent. And I'll try to read this. Since you're sending them, I'll look at this. Yeah. And I'll try to remember. If they issue this to her verb cuts, they are going to be a condition for a culvert. You can report me with a part of it. I mean, they're not that expensive, they're $400. Yeah, and the town installs it, but you have to pay the culvert. Well, can I sit here again, Jerome? No, I'll do a project like this. I thought we did. No, no, no. Oh, OK. It's only if the town's made creating a ditch to travel water or something, or if there's a driveway that's creating a problem for the town road, then we'll do that, but not on a new renovation. All right, so what is the town's select board? What is select board members? What are you thinking about this at this point? It's fine. Well, it's a good sight distance top of the Broward at Hill, I know what that is. I'll just add a little bit on this curb cut, is that when we blast that ledge out, we can't just blast out just the driveway. We're going to have to have still remain the sight distance. That's the residential one. So we may have to cut that ledge back beyond further back the way it's been drawn. Because otherwise, it's going to be kind of in a tunnel. Right, and you'll have to let each other look. Now, we want to be totally safe for ourselves and everybody else, so whatever is needed in that department. I'll be totally respect, you know, to be safe. You don't, by any chance, have the final one where we sign off, do you? No. Well, I usually say this here in the office. Yeah, well, it's not with all this stuff. So that's what we're going to do. I'm going to do support, and then I'm going to write down the conditions, and then I'm going to come back in the office and find the sign off page when I'm going to select what's going to have to make sense. All right, so let's first talk about the residential. And this is the one across in the swimming area, right? So there's 300 feet sight distance, greater than 300 feet. And Alfred, where's Alfred? No cover? Yes, the lower one needs a cover. No, the red one. Oh, OK, sorry. The brown one does not need a cover. But it does need a ledge checked out on both sides. OK, and you're good with the sight distance? Yes. And blasting the ledge on both sides? Both sides and the right one. Did that have to meet B71 standards, Alfred? Yes. B71 standards. And we're going to, the fire chief is going to look at that. Yes, the DRB required that he give us a written statement about his recommendations. We've already spoken with him, but he hasn't done a sight visit yet. OK, so we're going to get the fire chief to sign off on this. They're going to do. So the fire chief, in the first meeting that they had, so the specs for the road can be 12 to 24. And he was saying that in the best case scenario, he'd like it to be 24. But we're feeling that that might be, that maybe 18 would be OK. And it's particularly if we design a snow push-offs along the way so that we will maintain it so that it is safe. We don't want our houses to have access to fire. Fire and ambulance, right. So recognizing his need and recognizing our, we're trying to avoid a stormwater permit at the state. Oh, yeah. So we're doing well. At this point, we're about 0.6 of an acre. So we can't go beyond an acre. So we're just trying to be as conservative and meet everybody's needs. So if he might recommend 24 feet, but we would like to ask for some leeway on that. Based on if we put in our plans that we will manage the snow. Snow is what we're most concerned about. He doesn't want to be going on grass either. I understand that. But we would make those accommodations. So we'll have a tee, definitely one tee. We're considering two tees. I don't know if that's necessary with all the little driveways we'll be having to each house. The final plan of where each of the houses are and how long their little driveway off of our private road has not been determined yet. But my take on it is probably that the driveways will be no longer than two car lengths. They're going to be probably pretty close to the road to again conserve on various surface dimensions. But it, you know. So here's what I have. 300 foot sight distance, no culvert needed, blasting ledge on both sides of the driveway, B71 standards, and the fire chief requirements are met and addressed. The ledge doesn't come up to the road right now. It's back from the road and you'd be OK. Well, it's kind of like right there. It's right there. So it needs to be back. It needs to be removed out of sight distance. Yeah. So move back so that when you're in a car and sitting in a car. You're sitting in the driveway. Yeah, you can see. You can see both sides. Right. The sight distance is good right now. But if you cut just a tunnel through there. Right. That's right. That's going to lose your sight distance. Right. It's going to widen out the ledge. Further back, you don't have to get this straight out. OK, so I'm going to put down if you'll work with the road commissioner on that piece. OK. So can I ask a clarification about the fire chief? So would he say it has to be? Is that can he do that? That has to be 24 feet? Or he advised us. He advised us. And so we can say what we're proposing. Right. And see if they might agree with that. You proposed it and he might just say that's fine. I'd rather see this, but that's fine. That's what we'd like to hear. Sure. OK. Does he truck? He wants 24-wides of trucks built by each other. Does that do a tanker, water tanker shuttle? You need to be able to get two trucks that are basically nine foot wide by each other. Right. That's what your problem is. Including mirrors. So yeah, my house needs to be a firefighter. So he was talking about that if a house requires more than one tanker, it's probably gone anyway. Right? Well, depends. But I don't think because they can't see they bring some water. So that works. Right? I don't think they're going to stop bringing water. Just keep going. Keep shuttling. If that's close enough that a pond that might just use pumps, that's what I think. They'll put pumps in the pond and put a tank down. There is a port. There is a porch, right? Just opposite the blue barn. Well, we just need to move this along. Sure. Is that good for the board? All right. Do you want to put next to this one anything about discontinuing up the nearby farm road? Yes. Discontinuance of existing farm access road. Farm access road. And you might want, because the others also have farm access, you might want to say, yeah. Well, we're putting it near the eastern. No, no good directions. The one that goes to the woods. That's the eastern one. Eastern wooded entrance. All right. Is there a motion to approve a curb cut with these conditions? Move. Is that stand up? She's reduced from this. Oh. OK. And like I said, I don't have the pieces of paper I need for us to sign off on it. So I'm going to have to come into the office. I would move that. We allow Denise to sign on behalf of the sub board and a little bar signatures as part of this motion. OK. We would also come trucking down here. I was going to say, because everybody's going to have to otherwise come back. Small ink on a piece of paper. OK. All those in favor with the amendment, please say aye. Aye. Any opposed? Hearing none. All right. Now we're on to the fireman access. This should be Luizia, right? All right. What size culvert, Alfred? 50-inch. 50-inch culvert. OK. Anything else? Stand up. B-71. Anything else to report? Any comments? All right. If somebody would like to make a motion to approve this and authorize the chair to sign for the board. So who? Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. So as soon as I get this wrapped up, I'll just get it. Thank you all very much. Thank you. It sounds like a really cool development. Thank you. So and you're going to be concerning the balance of the property in here. Conserve the what? The balance of the property is going to be get land trusted or conserved or conserved. Can't be land trusted because it's too small. And we've begged, not begged. Have you spoken of the land trust up in Hardwick? We've spoken of many regional ones, not specifically Hardwick, but it's the general consensus that it's too small. They don't have the resources to manage it. So we're going to put it in our deed to conserve it over time. That's the strongest that we can do. We've tried for sure. Oh, wow. There's a small community of land trusts in Hardwick. They do smaller properties. I could try them. We're kind of sick of it here. I'd have to look in the McCullis. That was small, and they were interested. So land trust in Hardwick, I don't know. Yeah, they do smaller projects. I want to see if I can find it and let you know that. OK. But if I Google Hardwick Land Trust, that might be. Maybe. OK. It's not hard to collect something. Say what? Is it a center for agriculture? No, it's like something river related thing. They're interested in war quality, so because you're actually going to be addressing the war quality issues that have been present here. Vermont Land Trust came twice, too, because the swimming area is land trust. And so that would be like, it's not 50 acres, but because you're right next to another land trust. Yeah, I'm surprised. And they had multiple meetings at the land trust about this, and they just said, sorry, you can't. It's just too small. How many acres is the park? It's going to be about 25. We'll end up being conserved. I'm sure. Yeah, but it's good at controlling it. They get to serve small projects. Well, they do, like the pond, like the swimming area. But for this purpose, they just said, we have too many people coming at us, and we just can't regulate it. We just don't have the resources to do that. Yeah, that's tomorrow, but they'll do it. Yeah, I'll try to find and get you there. I can give you my confidence. OK, can we get Alfred? We got him up to date. Here you are. Alfredo. What are you looking for, John? This paper. Look by Judy's computer, there's little stickies. All right. So other than the fact that we hope my season is almost done. Yeah, there's still a lot of work going on in Sonic's way. Yeah, you did something up on Marshfield Road, right? I mean, had a call with Tim Lewis, and he was calling you, and it just seems like it's hitting in different places. At least it's not hitting a lot at once, right? Right, right. Yeah, it spreads out a little better. We're able to get it. But yeah, what I'm seeing is for some people, I'm pretty sure a lot of the places now are seeing what is the shaded spots for the last to go. Right. So I think we're really in good shape. Once it dries out a little bit more, we'll start grading. Where's Sharon? Are you using gravel that you had sat piled? Some of the golf you get some sat piled, we used a lot of that. I hired a truck to bring some in just to keep up with it. So we've got a pretty good stock piled left still. Everyone that does, it's been froze and smelling for the last little bit here. So then we're ready to go on Marshfield Road, right? This week we'll be putting more gravel out. Is John in or is he out? John's in the corner. Oh, which one? Great van. He just went out. Because he's going to want to hear about the motor. Now he's out there. You want me to get him? John, we're going to talk motors. What did he say? I'll be in. I said immediately. No. Oh, she's talking. It didn't work, obviously. Do you have any other updates other than motors? No, not really. I mean, we're just looking on the roads, saying to them when it snows. That last snow that we had that three or four of the weird snow just didn't honor the plowing. No. It was going to go up, and I knew it was going to go up. I don't even know how you could plow that. It's all with the roads, with the rocks. Yeah, I mean, it would wrap our trucks right around. Right. It would just plow again, and it's just a mess. So we're just saying to them. All right, so I think everybody's big question is, what's going on with the motor? Let's talk motors. Yeah. Well, I've gotten some bad news today. J&V hasn't been real good about getting back with me, because they've been trying to work with Navistar, which is international with the big company. And so for the last two weeks, they've been trying to get an answer whether they were going to help with the motor. They said that the service side of Navistar is not going to honor anything, because the warranty is out. The warranty is what it is. And they're not going to help us with it. So they're not extending our expired service contract? So it's not the dealer, it's the manufacturer. So what he told me today was that the owner of J&V, which is Billy Cleary, is going to call them and talk to the sales end of Navistar and see if they can get us some help there, and know how that would be if it's incentives for a new one or they give us more in this trade. The way I'm seeing it, it's just not worth putting money into that kind of money into that truck. Right, he's still got a lot of trucks. First of all, the only motor you can put in there is the one that we've had problems with. So why would we put another bad motor into a truck, especially giving us that? So they haven't corrected out the defects on that motor to our knowledge on that 2012 motor? It's engineered, they built it there because it is what it is. So they haven't come up with another motor to go in that year or that. Because I tried that, I tried to see if I could get a different make, like a Cummins motor or something that we could do that, and it's impossible. The way they've done the cooling system and all the emission stuff that's just impossible to put a different motor in there. So I'm waiting tomorrow, he's supposed to get a hold of me tomorrow to let me know whether sales is going to do anything to us. Right, he'll give us credit to buy another one of their junkie rigs. No, we're not buying another one. We don't want to buy, so it could be. Not as long as I'm there, we won't buy another another one, I'm done, I'm done. What a disappointment. So, yeah. Yeah, so anyway, I moved on a little bit in further investigating. So just out of curiosity, I got a price for a brand new truck, Cabin Chassis, which would be Western Star. So just hear me out a little bit. So it's $115,000 for a Cabin Chassis. And then it's $17,500 to take the parts off of the old truck and put it onto the new truck. You mean the body and the. The body, the plow, all of that stuff. So instead of, like normally we buy, when we buy the truck, we buy everything brand new. This is going to save us 40 grand. This truck is due next year until it's replaced. So frustrating. So I'm willing to go with the second, with the used, this is just hypothetical, it's just an idea. Right, right. Keep going. But it's a way to get out of the pickle that we're in with this other truck. So this truck you're talking about is a used truck? No, it's brand new. Brand new, Western Star. That's what I got priced on. And that was, the $115,000 is on the high end of things. All the bells and whistles was kind of, you know, I just asked what to get about. So there's a good chance we can buy this truck for $100,000 and then change the equipment over for $17,000. So now we've got a brand new truck for $115,000. And we still have some value in the old truck. Did he give us a sense of that? No, see, I haven't gone there. Well, yes. I talked to, when I talked to Charlie Boyce, Charlie Boyce sells Western Star also. So that's why I went to them. I don't want J&B to know that I'm thinking about replacing the truck, because they're not going to work for us. Then they're not going to work for us on the motor. So I just called Freightliner to get these numbers. So that truck is still worth something? Yeah. The dead truck, the bad motor truck, is still going to be worth something. I don't know what yet, I'll keep going on that. And if we pull parts up, it's going to be worthless. Right. But you pull the plow and the body and that stuff, you still got two rear ends, you still got the transmission, there's still a lot of stuff. Only because it's $30,000 to buy a new motor. Truck's not worth much without a motor. No, it's not. So, I mean, totally, we're in investigating stages. I need to hear more from J&B about whether they're going to do anything. And also, J&B might drop that $100,000 down even more because of the sales incentives that they may achieve because of this bad motor. And also, you've been a good customer. Yeah, we've bought everything from them. Especially if we hear you're looking at somebody else. So, I don't know, I mean, I'm still investigating, I'm still digging in on this. Charlie Boyce over to the other side of the lake. Well, no, they're here in Milton, but their Western Star service department is on the other side of the lake. So, anything warranted, the truck has to go across. Right, yeah, we can't come into Vermont because Alfie and I talked this afternoon because J&B's got the Western Star Vermont. So, if Charlie Boyce does the body work and everything, they can't have a complete unit because they've seen them shipping trucks to New Hampshire. It's very creative. They set a brand new truck, a whole body system on trailers, and the company that bought them is putting them together so they're actually stepping on somebody else's toes but they've installed this in New Hampshire. Ryan is out of, well, broke it. It's not creative. So, I'm not suggesting we buy from Charlie Boyce yet until, but I just needed a number for our discussion. Yeah, I know, I'm glad you checked into that. If J&B discovers that they're not gonna help us with the motor, then I may go with Charlie Boyce. But Charlie Boyce, I mean, J&B may come back if you decide to change the trailer's truck out. Right, the poker player said they may be down to $85,000 for the same truck, because they, it's not gross. Oh, no, it's not gross. I wanted to know what's the engine in this new Western Star. Prey Detroit. Oh, is it Detroit? Prey, yes. Prey, yes. Prey, yes, it's the same as the other two engines that we have in the Western Star. So, no more fancy engines. Well, come on, they're all the same. All right, wait a minute, does the board have any other comments? Because I know Greg wants to speak. Well, Alfred wants to talk. I don't know if Alfred's done. Well, I'm still researching. I mean, I gotta do something. I gotta have this truck revised, so we could get into how we want to do that if we are even remotely thinking about because of this catastrophic failure, we may be forced into replacing this truck sooner, one year sooner than what we had planned. Yeah, well, I wanna give Greg a chance to speak. So, Alfred talked to me, and I think you as a select board have to come up with a major capital line item change. We try to hold them trucks out for seven years. You guys might have to go and rethink your thinking and bring them down to six with their extended warranty. Even if the extended warranty is extra $10,000 on a truck to cover you for seven years, that's only like $5 a day. And then get rid of the truck in a six year period instead of the seventh year because the seventh year is gonna kill you. You guys are gonna have to think of re-changing Alfie's and Toby's thing to a six year lifestyle. As soon as the warranty is done on that truck, the extended warranty out the door. I thought that, but wait, doesn't the extended warranty go the seventh year? No, I don't think, I don't know what, whatever it goes to, that should be the date and that truck leaves Calisthenics because they're so electronic now, and that's what Alfie and I talked about. Even though this truck one has $88,000 miles on it, half of it's miles up on our boats. They're not like my trucks that stay on the interstate for years and years and years and years. Sucking salt. Well, I have that issue already, I got it. I've got heated bodies that are gonna have to be major changes on them. But the thing is, is you should as a board, ain't Toby and I change your life expectancy on your trucks to stay in the warranty totally and if it means you gotta give up a year of life expectancy on a truck, then okay, and you guys gotta figure like, if he's got four trucks, he's gonna replace one every year at 150, 180,000, 200 grand a year and then on a lot of two years that are on the wild cards through an MSGator or a grader or some other stuff, but figure you're gonna lay out about 200 grand every year and that is your capital line item for your heavy equipment because all electronics on it aren't gonna stay. The electronics are killing us. Okay, so that still doesn't answer my question. Is the extended warranty, does it cover it for seven years? Well, it's six years. So, So the factory warranty is three isn't by three, an extended for three warranty. That's the max, three, that's the max. And even if it costs you 10 grand for that three years, it's worth it. Well, I know you usually get the extended warranty, you know, Toby? But what Greg is saying is that we're... You're trying to hold that one more year. One more year. Right. And that's killing us. This is a good example of killing us. Yeah, this is an example of where it didn't work. Normally, it's not as bad as this. Well, which means we get rid of it before the end of six years. Right. So you plan on your fifth year for your next year that it's gonna be long. As we want it under warranty when we trade it. That's right. Otherwise, this thing will go 30 days after warranty. You get more for trading if it's still under warranty? They may give you some of that. I'm sorry, but it's more like warranty protecting the taxpayers. It's not a warranty helping sell a truck. Because I have one bull, Rosinals. I've blown two engines and I've had two overhauls ready in 40 years. I get it. But with all the electronics and the pollution control it's not worth it. These trucks are not anything like the olden days. They're where you can take them apart and isn't our president gonna roll back all these emissions? It's the way they're manufacturing if they're trying to get better fuel economy and the pollution control stuff. There's a lot of electronics in it and a lot more stuff to go along. And once it's out of warranty, it falls out of your maintenance fund. Basically, I think if you guys roll to this position you'll find out that you're like Alfie they talk to your maintenance fund should start to say morning. I mean, you gotta do the basic breaks in that. I understand that. But when it comes to, except for the cab, the springs, and the chassis, that's all you're buying whether it's a Peterbilt, Mac, Western Star, Freightliner, Kenworth. I didn't want to, that's what you're buying. The engines, some of them are preparatory. Like Pat Cower runs their own engines. Detroit Diesel's are in Freightliners and Western Stars because that's their own engine. And then there's Cummins. Cat does not make any engines anymore for commercial trucks. They got out of the whole business because they couldn't figure out how to do the environmental foods and stuff they had to make it. So they just said, we don't even want to make an engine for road use anymore. And then the next thing is your warranty I'm assuming the next one will be automatic. So your two biggest components, your engine, your transmission are gonna be under warranty. An automatic transmission, we're looking at about $15,000 bucks, maybe more. It's like a $5,000 a rear end. I think you should guys as a board to really consider when the warranty is done and change your whole philosophy now and lose a year across your whole system. Yeah, well, we'd have to do that for next year's capital. We can start off with Alfie's truck is gonna be just, if this thing works and he's playing a good card game, if it works, then you've got that truck and you've got the cabin chassis warranty for six, seven years, six years, whatever you can get out of it, and you're just gonna have to deal with the other components. But what I'm saying is that you would have to have a special town meeting, I think, to go out to purchase a truck. I mean, I'm just throwing that out there because that's a big amount of money. You mean this one? To do what Alfie's suggesting. I'm just seeing what are the options that we have. What's your capital? Do you have a capital fund? To pay for it. I mean, we do have some money in the reserve fund. So if he was able to get 35,000 and get this thing veiled down to less than 100 grand, so how much money do you pay for everything? Like I said, we'd have to figure out how much is in the highway heavy equipment fund. I mean, this is kind of... This is like an emergency thing now. I get it. In eight months, we're gonna have snow again. And it takes how many months to get the truck? About five or six. Probably take five or six months, if we move on now. You've got to order the truck. Right. To your stacks and then you got it. It's probably a month to get the equipment switched over. The savings here is the equipment. That's what we're gonna save the money for. The equipment, meaning the body, the blade. The body, the plow, the wing. There are some things that we would have to put new one, the truck, because you just... And there's no... The one used to be old. You're on a spanking, all the hydraulics, all that gotta be new, and the electric, and the water. And you're sure that all this stuff is gonna fit? The stuff... Well, some things they would have, like the hitch, the different plow hitch, they would have to be re-monified. That's all included, included in the 17-5. The pump, he said, he would definitely change the pump. The pump for what? Hydraulic pump. The hydraulic lines, you wouldn't wanna use. Old lines on a new truck. Some of this, because it's a brand new truck, some of the stuff you would have to redo. But you're still saving, because the body is 15,000. The plow is 4,000 or 5,000, the wing's set up. The way I've got it figured, we're gonna save about 40,000 by using the... Existing. The existing stuff. So I just... And this is just kind of something that I threw together. What about the standard, you know? That's all part of the body. That's the body. It's a side dump body, so all that comes with the body. Yep. Like I said, I don't know how much we currently have when they have the highway equipment and funds. The last number I thought was 78,000. And that was before or you had decided to move any money in there. Well, we're not gonna be paying for it all once. No, no, no. We enter to it. It's a year off. Right. You wouldn't pay a dime for a whole year. Right, yeah. Right. So you could remortage that truck and then start your new cycle as this chassis would be a new cycle of your six year cycle. So then you've got time. You've got time to figure out what the next ones are gonna have to be changed. Well, I guess that's a question. Can we do a lease purchase? Let's see what the difference costs. Can you check that out? They're about the same as a loan. I mean, it's just the interest rates are about the same. Well, there's a reason, a political reason. Right. Yeah, I mean that's... But we can check out that. Right. Yeah. This was just something, just a conversation. No, I'm glad you took the initiative to check it out. I'll beat that number down, especially if J&B comes around. I mean, they should. They'd be really bullish not to. Yeah. Our whole fleet came from them. Exactly. And the park forum come from them and we do a lot of business with them. So they should, they should, as far as J&B goes, they are very much working for us, working with us. Well, they want to. You know, I just want to see what they offer with the sales. Like I said, if they get, I mean, maybe they'll give us $15,000 off of a purchase price for the... Chest. For the... Right. And then you still got the trade of the truck. Yeah. The remainder of the truck. So it's all things that we... Yeah. Well, I'm glad you took the initiative. Is that our last international... Greg. We are done with international trade. Yeah. So I'm glad you took the initiative to start checking this out because we definitely need to do something. Yeah. So do you want to check it out further and then get back to us at the next meeting? Yeah. I want to hear what J&B says on the sales end. Yeah. And then I'll just maybe run it by them as far as the idea of trading the truck. Get their solid numbers. They're a lot of dollar. And then we can discuss how we want to do for it. That may be the next meeting. Okay. Yeah. If you want it, maybe you could come up with a... It's an emergency type situation, so... Can you come up with something you can give us to look at? Yes. That would be... Other than script one, for sure. Right, right. Now that you're Mr. Computer savvy, you can build an Excel spreadsheet. You can do something on the computer. I'll find out. I'll ask the treasurer how much is in the heavy equipment fund to see if we can get a figure. Okay. So, yeah. You've still got a fair amount of money in the regular budget too, so I don't know. We can... Yeah. I mean, we've done it all these years together. We do it alone. So we're only talking about, if it's $100,000, we're only talking about $25,000. And that's not until next year. So... Right. I mean, certainly we've got some time to figure out the money thing. When's your next truck coming up to its six year... Well, it's... Besides this one here, coming down. Next year you've had one truck coming up. Uh, two days ago, when the warranty runs out. Yes. That's the next one. You've got to start planning this. Well, we don't really have time to get into that whole thing tonight. Why is this the end? Greg? This is like an inter-conference. Right. So if you're going to do an inter-conference, why don't you confer either over there or at the time you're going to have it? I don't know. We don't. See, I can talk to you like that because I know I'm not set up for this. Yeah. Okay, yeah, so... Right. So if we could go ahead and... On next meeting's agenda, so... Oh, absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. We'll be on every meeting's agenda for the next six months. Well, at least up until next year, we've got to go to work before then. If that's the way we go. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So thank you so much. Appreciate that. And I should have done these items in reverse, but I didn't. So Town Hall Renovation Project update as needed. I don't think there's much right now. We're having a Town Hall meeting on Wednesday. Thank you, Greg. We appreciate your help. Bye, guys. We're back home to go to bed now. I have a pillow that wants to dry head. We're moving forward. I'm looking at fundraising opportunities. I'll just say that. That's where we are at the Town Hall. And Cliff and I have been going to all the meetings. Thank you very much. Thank you. All right, Ken Hill Road Culvert. We have gone back and forth and we've talked about this culvert for a couple of years now. And it would be a good opportunity to do it in conjunction with the Town Hall Renovation. So I think it's something that we probably haven't agreed on in the past. But I'd like to see what we can do to come to terms with getting this project moving along. Well, Toby said that we might not need to change the culvert or other fixes that would get us to. I guess we need to talk about this. So originally Scott Vassage had asked me to look into grant opportunities for doing something to that. Specifically after they had the McBroom site survey done. So the existing conditions, if we don't do anything, the existing delegation of the floor of the town like inches into the flood plain. So if we put the larger culvert in, and essentially the reason for the larger culvert is that debris would block the smaller one, causing it a dam that then would over top the road and wash everything out. And it wouldn't do that for, I mean, I guess I don't understand what. So a bigger opening, the debris down would go through and not stop. Not a bigger culvert, a bigger opening. Culvert is the big, there's the hole. The culvert is the hole, it's an arch, it's not a big kind of thing. That's what I'm trying to make sure I understand. It's an arch, and so now the existing small arch has the potential to be blocked by debris therefore trapping water, therefore creating a wash out of the road, or actually it's overtopping of the road. It goes over the road further down past the town hall and then back over, and that's where it all gets caught. It impacts the footprint of the town hall. So if you put a bigger opening, a larger culvert for $300,000, all that debris washes through and you never have a problem because it never blocks it and holds it back behind the road. That's the solution that is suggested by McBroom. Is that less expensive than putting flames in a bridge? I had Doug Newton do it, so he, whatever he decided, he's the smart engineer that knows. The situation that's happening now is that because you're renovating the town hall, the elevation of the floor is gonna rise two feet. So with the existing conditions, now the elevation of the floor is out of the floodplain because you're spending the money to redo the town hall. So in reality, my sense is you don't have to do the culvert because you've moved the building to not have it as a threat any longer. The road may still be a threat. The road still may wash out sometime in the 100 year flood in the future, but that's the only condition that's going to be affected by the flood plain that's in the existing condition. But I guess it doesn't make any sense to me why we would still, I mean, so the town hall floor is up two feet. That's not really all that much. And why would we wanna take a risk on having it get blocked and not replace it and not fix it? I guess it just doesn't make this logic. If you get $100,000, you can't get grant money, then it's right there with the grant money. So again, so back to the grants that are available. There's three, right now, there's three things that are potentials. One is a structures grant. That's our normal highway structures grant, Vermont VTrans. That maxes out at $175,000. If we get that grant, the town would be on the hook for $125,000 for the project. The second opportunity is what Pam sent you guys. Might be a fisheries, national fisheries, it's called Aquatic Organization Passage where essentially it allows fish to go further upstream to replace that cover. That's only a 50, 50 grant. So that would mean $150,000 for the town. Can we get them both? No. That's all of the way. The third is a hazard mitigation grant which I think that's what I've been pursuing. That, again, is a $25,000, $75,000 grant. That would be the best opportunity for us as far as grants go. How high do they go? $300,000, that, whatever, it would be. Okay, so it'd be about $75,000. As opposed to $150,000 or $100,000, right? Yeah, okay. Not the problem with that is though so that you have to now do a cost-benefit analysis prior to application. So is fixing the road after it washes out and blows the town hall down more expensive than $300,000? So I'm doing the research on that to try and see where that falls. How much does it do to do a cost-benefit analysis? Who does it? I'm doing it. You are out there. Right, I have to find the data. So so far there's no data on what, the only data I can find on what happened in 1984 is there's a select board minute that says there was a roughly $260,000 cost to replace this area of road. So that's the only number that I have. So conservation, NRCS has a file on it. Well, that's what I'm trying to, a lot of fill, I know that. That's what I'm trying to, again, there's a FEMA file on it. But it may take me six months to get all the data in. So I'm using that as a ballpark figure. I talked with both Rick Purchase and Eva about what the damage to the town hall total. And most of the damage was just water damage. They redid the floors, they did some of the sheet rock and painting. They, Eva remembers it at about $25,000. So the building in the last event was only $25,000. Different dollars, probably $75,000 in today's dollars. Again, so do the math. So $260 plus $25,000 and then do the 30-year difference. And plus now? So that's the only reference I have in order to say, okay, this is... So it sounds like it's more than the correct replacement cost in today's dollars. Right. And again, so the application takes time to put together and you have to put together some funds prior to the application to know that we're ready to commit $70,000 or whatever as our park. And that's where I'm at. That's what I've been doing. John? Well, I was just going to say one of the irony is that we are lifting the building up as much as we are theoretically. Even with a clog culvert, the building is not expected either anyway to sustain any damage. So it's really hard to say, to include any damage to the building as part of what you're trying to deal with when you're going for the mitigation grant. Right. Where theoretically the building is secure. Right, right, I'm on paper. But let's say it floods more than it did in the 1984 one, then that's a real problem. Especially if we spend a bunch of money doing foundation work, it's probably because the flood of 84 didn't help the situation with the current impact. It's important to know what kind of a flood event happened in 1984. It was a 100-year flood event, or a 300 or a 500. And didn't you find that it was debris that plugged the culvert? There was debris that plugged that culvert and that's what created the flood. Right. But depending on the size of the event, we've got more water, you have more debris, larger pieces of debris, trees, and stuff like that. So if that were a 300-year event. So, but the McBroom cycle. And just buildings all the out of the 100-year flood plain, it's not going to be protected from the 300-year event, which by the way, we're getting 300-year events in less than a 100-year cycle. That's what's going on. So, but take a look at the McBroom because the McBroom analysis was based on the existing conditions today with a 100-year flood event. And that's where they draw the base elevation flood. So they've done the scientific thing for a 100. So the only thing we could check that would be different was what was the event in 1984 as opposed to, was it a 100, was it a 75? What was the span of the event? Well, I think that we need to keep on this and check it out. And I'm glad to know that you're working on it. When might you be able to give us an update? And is it's probably too late for this season, right? Oh, yeah. But it might be for next season? Well, it's going to be, you guys have to approve whatever the number turns out to be. I mean, if there's a potential grant application, you have to put the funds in the budget request to tell the people whether we get it or not. Yeah, we know that. So that's what's going to happen. Based on that number. We have till December next year, or January next year to do that. Well. It'll be any sooner than that. Yeah. Because you'll be building the budget then. Right. Well, it'll be good to know by December of this year, so that when we're going to budget and then when is the grant application due? Well, it's a hazard mitigation. I'm not sure. I'd have to check what the cycle is, but I think it's April of each year. So it'll be April of all year. So it would be following March approval. Right, so that would make sense. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Just tell me. Get it straight. Rose? I remember something from when Scott and this whole culvert talk began. Not only was it taking care of this culvert, but then reusing the existing culvert up near Emsley Road too. So if we do, or if we don't do anything to this one, what about that other culvert over by Emsley Road? We just changed that. Go. They're both big culverts. They're both big culverts. They're between here and Emsley Road. That's too large. There's two perennial streams right there. One is the big stream, the Pekin branch, and the other one that comes down Emsley Road, Emsley branch. But that figure's gonna be figured in also. If we're gonna take this culvert out and move it over one, that's a whole another pocket of money that's gonna have to be accounted for. Right. And would that be a separate grant or would that not be a grant eligible? Well, again, the problem is that one didn't blow out in the last disaster. So it's gonna be hard to say, I can predict that that would happen in the next one. Right, but can we get a better roads for you to do that? We can apply for it. Again, if it's an existing working culvert, you have to find a reason to have them fund it. I mean, usually it's water quality and sedimentation and drainage, and I don't think that there's any of those issues that occur to that as it sits. The current culvert. The current culvert that's by Emsley. Well, I think what I'm hearing from the board is we'd like to see this to keep being in motion. Correct. And hopefully we can get it to a point where we could consider putting it in a budget for next fiscal year. 20. I don't, do you believe it? Are anything in that fiscal year 20 or not even in 19? So on grants, the other thing is we got two of the better road grants, but we did not get the Sadie Foss replacement of the culvert. What are the better road grants for? The ones for Loose Road. That's probably. Bliss Road, Bliss Road, right. So that's for ditching and culverts and stuff. So we got two small grants for that. The big, you know, essentially they have two classifications. One's are for small drainage issues and the other ones are for larger issues. Are these in-kind or are these money? You know, they're, if we do the work or something. No croak. It's in-kind. We do our portion, how do you do that? So we do our portion, I think it's 10% or 20%. I would say these are 90-10, right? These are better roads. Better roads, I think are 20, 20, 20, 20, 20, I'm pretty sure. Anyway, so they have a larger, those are class B, there's a class D for larger big culverts. So we applied for a culvert on Sadie Foss that actually the road is falling in on either side of it, it's too short, it's not big enough. So that was turned down. So, you know what, everybody's gonna make their choices about priorities in the pie. Yeah. Right, so my suggestion is that we apply for a structures grant for that same culvert. If paperwork's already done, I just need to give them a go ahead and say, let's do that, I just wanna make sure you guys are aware that we're pursuing that same project, that same infrastructure, but with a different grant. Right, we already do it in the... That's me training, it's not a better road. Right, but we already have our share budgeted. Well, most structures grant, there's only a, we do all the work anyway, so it's just part of our regular operations system. So, you know, if the guys are working a week on one project, we're paying them anyways, and it comes out of our regular budget. Right, but what I'm saying is we didn't need to budget. No, there's no budget needed at all on these priorities. Our share would be in time. In kind, okay. This would be our estimator, our manpower. Right. And actually, we'll do the whole project, and we'll get $4,000 from the state, or $16,000 from the state to help offset what we've already asked the voters to support. That's what I'm getting at. Yeah, no, it's all taken care of. Okay, so just from a administrative perspective, as we're in this transition thing, do we have copies in the town office of the approved grants? If not, could you make sure that there is a copy? They were emailed to the town clerk, so I don't know if she filed them or not, but I can give them to you as well. Okay. And then, you're gonna apply for that. Other one, is that what I'm hearing, is the Board of Green? To that, the AOT one for Sadie Foss? That's a great share. Yeah. It's really important. Yeah, I mean, it makes sense to me. But I don't know if you need a vote. No, just tell me. Senad. Go or no go, yes. Senad. Senad. No, nothing official needs to be taken care of. Anything else? Anything else? No, good. How's our material pile looking? For gravel? Yeah, gravel. Good. Sand, yeah. Yeah, sand, we're fine, we're out of woods there. Gravel, I've been hauling it in between storms and nuts, so I've got a pretty good satch. Yeah, I've seen the trucks. We've got a lot out, you know, we're starting with a big pile. Yeah. See it drop in, so I just head to them. You can't. A lot of times in the morning, when it's froze, we'll haul out to the roads to fix the bedspots. And then the afternoon, when it warms up, I take the trucks off the road and they haul on the black top from Bickford's to the pile. Oh, you're getting Bickford's. What wasn't there? Bickford's is open, they weren't open for quite a while, but they opened. They're about open. They're running out of material, so I'm trying to get as much as I can. I'm trying to think back, was it last summer that you were gonna do a sieve analysis because of some reason? Yes, we did with the spiky stones. Spiky, spiky stones. That's right. We did this, we are now stockpiling in the yard instead of taking stuff directly from the pits. Part of the problem we found was when it was coming right off the belt, it hadn't settled and it hadn't mixed well, depending on how they were operating in the pits. In the summer, when they're crushing, they like to load it right off the crusher instead of handling it twice, so it doesn't get a really good mix. Oh, I see. So when they move it from the crusher to their pile and then back in our truck, and then we do it, and to our pile, it gets a better mix and the stones get mixed in with the pines. So we went to the V-Trans materials lab with a bucket of our stored onsite. Okay, good. And I'll send you a copy of that report, but we were like down in everything, but by 10% in one place. The angle area was right. It's all perfect. According to the state, whatever the state standard is. But that's the right standard for our roads. I guess we'll find out. Yeah, because we're gonna be coming up to the season where the other season. The phone ringing off that hook. My tires are ruined season. Well, I recently got a call from an issue from last fall, and he was wondering if we had done anything and I told him that we're treating the ground differently, and what he wanted to know about a policy, if the town was gonna change the policy about tires. And I said, well, I can mention it to the board, but I don't think we're gonna start buying people's tires, which I don't know. Is that what policy he meant? Are we gonna establish a policy that says that we would replace people's tires? Did we ever check with them? Yeah, at least we would have done so. I mean, who's gonna determine the life of a tire? Who's gonna determine, you know, I don't want to be out there measuring everybody's tires. You know, much better than me. And what we've done in the past is tell people that to contact the lead to see if our insurance will cover it, and generally they say no. I think once in a while they will cover a windshield. Haven't they covered a windshield before? Uh, we've got a $500 deductible, so a windshield will cost $500. Yeah, I know that they've, there's a variety here, of course, or something that... In the past they covered a couple of things, but I can't remember what they were, but yeah. So, but good, I mean, if you've checked it out and you're handling it different, so it has more opportunity to settle and kind of mush together. And then, you know, maybe that'll help with some of the conditions we had last summer. Because we don't typically have that many complaints about the gravel, as we did last summer. It's bad less. It was really... Well, you had your show and tell. Right, I lost four tires last year. John, before you go, are we all set? Um, because we can give the town hall committee an update on Wednesday about the cover. Yeah. Thank you, everybody. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. Take a piece of Benanna bread with you. Okay, thanks. Have a good one. See, I'm going to go to the hazard mitigation plan as part of the 2020 plan. Yeah, I know, I think John and Jay are on here for the PC thing. For what? PC thing. So, do you have something more? No, but you said hazard mitigation plan and that's me. Yeah, that's one of the... I was just going to try to do it. I thought you were leaving, so I was going to skip. But, anyways, hazard mitigation plan expires in 2020. I got an email from Laura Ranker about getting a grant and being part of the whole big CVRPC process for updating the hazard mitigation plan. And I sent everybody the information that Laura sent, which she kind of explains the difference between hazard mitigation and LAOP for new people so that they would understand what that's all about. So I just want to report to know that that's something that we want to know. Go for the grant. That's what happened last time. Right. They had somebody essentially do all the work for us. Right, that's basically it. We all really have to do a lot. So... Well, we have to answer their questions and make suggestions about where the risks have been. Right. But it's a good opportunity, right? Yeah, so we can pursue it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. Is anybody interested? I mean, it's in the four line Google folder if you're interested in reading about what it is, what the difference between LAOP and hazard mitigation. They kind of go together because one affects the other. So I just, it was mainly an opportunity, a learning opportunity for people that don't really know about it. Makes sense? Yeah. I saw it over there. Yeah, okay. I'm near spare time. You can study it. All right, so PC. You got any names for new people? That's not a problem. We know. We have, we have... Were we at, we were at, were we at nine one time? At one time. Because I know when I was on the planning commission, I think we were at seven. It went down to seven right after Jack. Yeah. Right after I joined. People that resigned. Right. But, and we have... And I know you've advertised. Yeah, we've advertised. We... So what's happened is because we're at seven, we have to have a quorum of four. And if you want to vote on anything and you want to approve, the approval has to be forced so it can be hardly dissent. So we have had times where two people have been gone and we just simply cancel the meetings because we don't have a quorum. Even though we could discuss, but then like last time, we're going to have to repeat again. Right. You can't take any action. Right. We can't take any action. So we've thought, we've discussed it a lot and we think we should go to five. If somebody wants to join, we can rise up again, but we thought we'd rather go to five and have the quorum be three and we think we can do the business better and I maybe move faster on certain things that we want to move along. Do you know whether or not the planning commission can have alternates? So let's say you found one person, so that makes six. So somebody could come to the meetings. It wouldn't necessarily vote, but they could vote if somebody else was missing. Do you know whether or not? We had heard, I think under Jack, we've heard we cannot officially have an ultimate, but you could have somebody who came and sat and that's how Paul Rose got. Right, right. Came and sat and then when Peter Brough left, then Paul became Peter's replacement. There's nothing we do that doesn't actually go to you. Right. Or she's kind of like you're having a story. I was just trying to think of me, if you really got somebody really good, but that makes six and you don't really want six, you know, you better off with an odd number. Yeah. And what you're describing, Jan, that, is it Peter Brough's or something? Paul Brough's. Paul Brough's. Anybody can do that, right? Anybody can just. Yeah. They're interested and they really have an interest they can always try and sit and listen. But they can't sit in. They can't vote. And somebody else is placing a vote. So, are we sure that we can't, that's a simple question to ask. What? About an alternate? Yeah. Yeah, we checked it out. I think they checked it out. Yeah, I'm pretty sure I checked it out with Jim for the league. Okay. Yeah, I remember that now. Because I think that was kind of what we were hoping to do before, but, well, maybe you'll find two really good people and we can back up to seven. I'm sure you could use the help if you had some more people. There's value in. Yeah, I mean, you guys all know what's going on. Getting it done. Right? Yeah. And not having to get somebody up to speed, for sure. But it would be really nice to have some couple more people. Well, and for just kind of flow group. You know, you get too small and you're more moral. You know what I'm saying? Initiate a draft and just drag people in. Yeah. I think you like, if you're new in town, you should have to, you know, if you should have to kind of like, you have to serve in the. Exactly. I need to reconstitute this draft board. Here we go. I'm sure that's still. All right, so I guess we need a motion to reduce the number of Planning Commission members from seven to five. So we have authority to do that? Wow, powerful. Well, I think, and we can also up it if we, right, to say again that we're doing this so the Planning Commission can do its work. And we'd be. We've noticed that. Ready willing. Yeah, we're happy to up it again. People come forward. Right, I mean, on the side, if you get lucky and find two really great people, we can always put it back up to seven. So, all right, so I guess I've made the motion. Is there a second? Second. Any further discussion? All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. Aye. Okay, good. Thank you. Thanks for coming. Can you make sure the minutes say they don't go up? We can take it up anytime. Are you going to talk about terminally? Not tonight. Oh, not tonight? Okay. Well, yeah, could I just mention something? Yeah. No. I'll take my seat. I think, I'm willing to move to four. If you want us to follow the rules of procedures that the select board decides on, and if it's four, then I will gladly change. But it's just that we've had hours at three all the time, and so I just was very excited. Well, I think we have to look back and see what the, or did you already do that? It's always been, it's always been four, and that doesn't have anything to do with the rules of procedure. This is four. No, well, but planning to make sure we had our own rules of three. Yeah, that's fine. And we had that discussion when you got a little. And we had, we got it with always three, so all of a sudden I saw we had four, and that whole thing with the rules of procedure, I think I explained it to you that we were simply gonna send it around to everybody else that they wanted to adopt what we had, they could, you have your own, that's fine. But the term limit piece is hard to be a rules of procedure. It's in hours. I mean, that's the way VPIC has their grafted stuff. So I think. So, and I know that we've had our own separate rules of procedure. I guess what I'm learning from this is not to be quick on the drop. I'll just wait for you guys and then just follow through with what you guys have. That's what I learned from this. Are yours different, a lot different than ours other than the terms? Other than the terms of, other than the term limits. They're probably pretty much the same because ours came pretty. Pretty much is all the same. I mean, we, we adapted maybe the conflict of interest. We don't do, we're not judiciary. So we don't do executive sessions. Right. We don't do a few other things. So we kind of like cut a lot off last year we did, but I mean, that's fine. And I'm just saying what I learned from this episode. The only thing I don't know if like the select board handbook or if there's a state statute or anything that says about term limits. I'll have these different things. I just know that these have always been the terms, you know, the historic preservation is three, planning commission is four. I mean, we're trying to have them the conservation commission is four. Yeah, they do alter me, but the year, yeah, development review board are three year terms. And that's just always the way it's been. But I don't know. Well, I plan to check it out. Yeah. When I get to that part of the appointment spreadsheet. I'm not that far yet. No, that's fine. Yeah, I just, I just, I think I was just surprising that was all and I thinking we were three and then learning we were four. And I thought, well, why do we have our rules of procedure if that's the case? I would just assume to a blanket. Yeah. All right. And that, you know, might be. I think we should have executive session because like if you ever were able to land conservation project and you guys want to weigh in, that would be a land. But they can be part of our thing. Well, if they want to have their own meeting. I don't think they can. Sure they can. They might want to. But they can go into executive session. They can. Planning commissions cannot. I'd have to double check with them. If it has to do with realists, if it has to do with realists. They don't have that authority though. Our executive session is, I think it's time to. Right. It's specific to the select board. Oh, okay, okay. The conservation commission can go into executive session to talk about that. That's statutory. Right. But the planning commission does not have that authority. Because the conservation commission recommends the select board. Right, but planning commission could too. I guess we can look, double check. So I don't see why the statute would differentiate. If we delegate and have them do a project for us. I'm pretty sure it says that planning commissions have no authority to go into executive session. But we have, we can double check. Yeah, okay. I'll check. There's something that we don't do that other. Right, because you're not quite like judicial. Because we're not quite like judicial. So it's different than what's on the DRB. Right, and see the conservation commission makes recommendations to the select board about funds coming from the conservation. That's a unit to us. We don't know about that. That fund we've created. A lot of times. I know, but I don't think it's a statutory thing. It's still an advisory to the board. It's worth it to look. Yeah. So we appoint planning commission, is that correct? We are. They're not elected. No, they're not elected. I can look in the select board handbook. I can't even be on the wifi right now, so. Yeah, it's probably easier just to look when I get home. We'll be tomorrow. I know the board was anxious to get out of here at a decent time. Okay, thank you. Good night. Thanks, Jay. Thank you. Thanks, Don. So I have a few appointments to present. Haven't gotten through the whole list of appointments yet. Or reappointments, whatever they might be. Do you want me to rattle them off? Okay. I'd like to re, and these are one of your terms, all of them. So I'm looking to make a motion to reappoint Katie Lane-Carnus as recording secretary. Bill Powell's energy coordinator. Somebody I'm going to fast-gate. David Ellen Bogan to the tech, which is part of the CVRPC. He's been a pretty good member. I got good feedback from the regional planning commission that he attends most meetings. Neil Maker as tree warden. Rose Peltchuk for B.S. Vermont State Police Advisory Board and replaced Toby. Maybe. I want, no, I thought you were going to- Well, I was gonna, and Peter Harvey never got back to me. Oh, we didn't. Okay. No, I should have cancelled that for now. Yeah, cancel that for now because if they meet on the third Tuesday of the month, that's when my Catholic daughters meet. And I'm an officer. I'm a recording secretary on two Catholic daughter boards. So let's hold on. All right, so let's hold on. So will you double check with Peter and get back to me? Yeah. I didn't pick up the phone. I didn't pursue that because I thought you were working on it. Yeah, and the only thing I can think of is maybe he got a different email address, but it's email- I don't need to check regularly. You know he might ask Donna Fitch because she's on the Old West church board with him. Oh, okay. Yep. And I could always pick up the phone. Well, yeah, you could do that too. Like in the old days? Yeah, pick up the phone. In the olden days. Bless you. Grandma, in the olden days, there's a lot you can get. All right, so skip, nevermind that one. And then Anne Winchester as the E-911 coordinator. That's good. She's agreed to that? Yes. And she's already tied to John. John's willing to help train her. She's very detailed oriented. She doesn't mind going out and measuring and dealing with people. She's very organized, so I think she'll be really good. And the 911 board is pretty helpful. So that's, and those are all one years. And that's, we did already do some appointments the last time. So that's it. That's my motion. Is there a second? Second. Any further discussion? No discussion. All those in favor, please say aye. Aye. And I'm keeping it up. Spreadsheet two, Rose. Okay. So the delinquent tax collector, I could take off of here, because it's a point. Well, it's appointed, so it needs to be left on and it's an annual appointment. Okay. Sandra's filling in the term. We'll have to look on that spreadsheet or in the, so for her, is it gonna be a one year appointment? It's a one year appointment. And it's usually done after town meeting, so we just did that. We did that last time, right? Or the time before? The time before we appointed. Sandra has the delinquent tax collector. Yeah. And would you check with, did we vote on these appointments before I got interrupted? Yes. So would you be willing, Rose, to check with Mr. Palchuk? I'll put him down. Ooh. For the Warrantyup candid camera. No, no, he's the inspector of lumber. Inspector of lumber. Peter Harvey's Warrantyup call. Yeah. Okay. I'll check with Peter Harvey. Okay. Is Warrantyup call is one of the ones that we, but it hasn't been disbanded yet, correct? No, we keep it in honor of Black Rock call. And we don't have, and we don't have Greg do it because it could be a conflict. Yes. If we ever have to wait for Cole in the town. Absolutely. Then it's for the town. Cole plan. All right. So I'm working my way through the list, so I'll have more next meeting. When the ones that are in that stand in the bell to be, I'm gonna say disbanded. Which one is that now? Warrantyup call was one of the, was it? Yeah, you sent out that. Yeah, I did send it out. Granger. Yes. Granger was the only one I remember. No, Warrantyup call I think was in there too. Fence viewers? Why the Fence viewers? My question was whether those positions number of years people have memory of have been nearly ceremonial or have we ever, we've never. Fence viewers are a good one to keep around. Fence viewers, yeah. That's a property line to spew back. Someone sticks a shed over the property line to get the Fence viewer up. No, but I don't think that we have that on the list. Oh, we don't. It might be one that we. We don't have Fence viewers. No, we don't. Now that would be a higher surveyor. We're very good. Right. And get yours on you in the street. Right. And we have Warrantyup call that never does anything. Specter of lumber that never does anything. And Granger was our answer. Granger. And we've never used those. We've never found. Tina. Tina. She's done stuff. Right now. I can't remember what. A long time. It's just, it's. Well, I know what it was when there was the recount. Wasn't it the recount or something? Maybe. It went to the. I think it does. I think you're right. It's very important, yeah. So that's my, my question is just not to, not to resolve, but to be aware of whether we have functions that we have to account for. Well, even if there's no functions to account for, if this legislature doesn't do away with it. Well, absolutely. I have to put somebody in there. Absolutely. But I'm just saying, those are on the table to get. Yeah. We'll see what they do. So maybe there was a viewer. Did we purposefully get rid of it or not deciding on the point? I think you don't need it anymore. We don't need to, but we get it's optional. I remember a long time ago we used to do fence viewer. But, and I can't remember when that went away. It hasn't been on this list. Well, the statutes changed around fences and the laws around farming and fences in the past even 10 years I would say. Well, was fence viewers really about property lines? Not about maintenance of fences. No. No, it was about fence lines, meaning stone walls, which are property lines, property lines. So if someone's encroaching on your property line, your first kind of effort could be to call the fence viewer and he or she would go out there and look at the maps and say, you got to move in if the person didn't then you'd go to the grand juror and they'd have a hearing and then they'd rule and it would be somewhat binding. I guess I could appeal to the Superior Court. And the tree warden, that statute is undergoing some review and changes and stuff. And I know Neil was gonna try to keep up with that. I should check with him and see what's going on. Yeah, so these things Evan Flow, people were poo-pooing tree warden 25 years ago. What were you doing? We were making flowers. And then it became an issue in this town, cutting down our grand old maple trees. And we found out that you can't do that. And those guys are there to protect those ornamental shade trees from the road property owners that said, I can do whatever I want on my property. No, you can't. Well, you can't. No, and we found it called. Those are public assets. And we found out that the tree warden has to hold a public hearing when it's ornamental shade trees. Well, I think part of what they're doing is better defining what is an ornamental and all this and that stuff, because it's not very clear. I mean, it's kind of subjective. Yeah, we're not an ornamental tree. One man's ornamental is another place. Does it have Christmas decorations? Is that Christmas decorations? We generally know those big maples that you see marching up, you know, center road. Those were ornamental. They were put there for that reason. Right, and this came up in the other group that I'm on, the rural roads, resilience, resistance, whatever that group is called. This came up because Alphan's also on that group, which I think is really good for him. Yeah, because he had been kind of working under the false impression that, you know, as you just said, and it's like, and then Joanne Gartner, whatever her name is, said that, oh no, the tree wardens are very important and they have to hold these hearings, but check it out because they're trying to make changes and make the tree warden actually more important. Improve its structure, yeah. Improve what they do and make what they do, you know, more better. And they protect our roads from the pounding of rain and they keep the moisture in the road so that it doesn't turn to a dust bowl in the summer where we get all that erosion after that. Really important. So anyway, so I'm, like I said, Alphan's part of that group with, he's been helpful and he's learned. All right. Minutes. These are, do we need to do the minutes from the 26, Katie? Did, I went, I went, I made some, we need to go into executive session too real quick. And Cliff has to leave, but. It's like it's done. What if we do executive session and then do minutes? We can do that. And then the other piece on here is this Thursday, it's a reminder that we have the EMFD quarterly budget review meeting. I'm going to need to do a special agenda. Where is it? It's at the East Montpelier fire station in East Montpelier. East Montpelier fire station. Right. And what's, what's the answer? You know where it is. I do know where it is. 54. I know where I'm going. I know. And it's at what time? Seven o'clock. Yeah. Seven. Right. And are you, I don't close going, Rose and I usually always go and Rose does the minutes. I don't know where to go, but. I can go. Oh my God. Let's see. I think it would be good if we all go because they're saying that they're agreeing to do this quarterly meeting for the request of the select boards, but they're asking at least three members of each select board show. So. At least for this. So you haven't said anything. Right. Right. Seven o'clock East Montpelier fire station meeting at the fire at the East Montpelier. Right. Because we're East Montpelier's budget committee is working with them on refining and refining their spreadsheets and making it better, easier to understand. So I think we need to show our support. Absolutely. Nope. I can be there. All right. We're going to go into an executive session to discuss personnel matters. I think you can go join me outside and come back in a minute. No, we can give you that. Would somebody like to make a motion? I'll do it. So that Jerome can hand up. Thank you, guys. 855. So move, go into executive session for the purpose of discussing personnel issues pursuant to or BSA section 31283. 1 BSA section 31383. Something like that. Yeah. Second. OK. Bye. Thank you, everybody.