 Welcome to the two-wheel revolution here on ThinkTechHawaii.com. I'm your host, I'm Peter Rossin. This is a program where we talk about micro-mobility, essentially rolling, scooting, walking as a way to get around and avoid the automobile, if possible. So today we have our guest, Anthony Chang, who's been here before talking about some traffic issues before as well. Anthony is an avid bicyclist that actually makes a small business of it, I believe. And he recently wrote a piece for the Hollywood Star advertiser about that darn Alawai bridge, the pedestrian cyclist bridge that's gotten a lot of discussion lately. So Anthony, welcome to the program. Hello for having me, Peter, again. And thank you for everyone who is tuning in and whether you're listening to me for the first time or you've listened to me before, I also appreciate your time. Thank you. Well said, I appreciate the time too. I have my two regular listeners out there, but I'm not sure who else is out there. But let's press forward. You just wrote a piece, so it's published in the Star advertiser, about the bridge. And I imagine you know the first sentence by heart by now. So what was the first, what was the lead? What was the first thing you said? Arguments. Well, I'm probably summarizing. Arguments against the Alawai bridge are anti-democratic, anti-deport and not grounded in democracy or reality. I think that's exactly right. And you know, when I worked for the newspaper for a long time and one of the frustrating things about writing for the newspaper is you never get to write your own headline. So the headline of the story, at least the one on the online version, was pedestrian bridge would be an asset. And so let's take that for a moment, rather than, you know, talk about what's anti-democratic or irrational when we talk about planning. Let's talk about, what do you see are the positives? What, why is this such a good thing? And before we jump into that, I wanna say, I've been an enthusiast and a supporter of this version of this bridge for many years. And so it's not that I'm opposed to it but I'm, you know, interested in all the controversy that's surrounded. So let's start with the positives. What's the good thing? What are the good things about this bridge is where it gets built? It will create a safer and more convenient crossing for people who walk and bicycle. The current crossings, as I mentioned in my op-ed, the sidewalks often are very narrow and sometimes are difficult for people, especially if you have like a wheelchair or just need more space to cross, definitely not more than enough room for one person to walk across. So there's that bit. This is both Kapa Kulu side and Macaulay street for people wondering how to get from Moeho Yuli to Waikiki. And the bike lanes on the Macaulay side disappear at random points, getting into Waikiki. They are non-existent on Kapa Kulu. The Alawai Bridge addresses this pedestrian bicycling only, therefore 100% safe. And because it's such a short crossing, should be accessible for most people who have, you know, even if they have energy issues. Okay, so you would say safety, convenience are the main things? Yes, and I, as I touched upon it in the opinion editorial, makes it more equitable. As I mentioned, there is data that shows that 17, nearly 17% of households on a walk who are carless, nearly 70%, 70% of those people are, would be considered low income by federal standards. So not all of us, unfortunately, can afford the automobile to go across. And even for those who can, they just might wanna walk in and bike across, but they don't feel safe to do so because yes, of all the problems I just addressed previously. Okay, so just to review, there are raising me three ways to get across the Alawai right now. You can come down Kapa Kulu, which is skirts the Alawai. And although there's not a bike lane on Kapa Kulu proper, there is a bike lane along the golf course. There's the Kala Kala extension that goes, or the Alawai extension that runs up to Kala Kala Avenue and then goes right. And there's, I guess that's a bridge, all right, before the convention center. And then there's the McCulley Bridge. Is that it? And that those are, well, aren't those enough? Though there are shared use paths up going up Kala Kala past the Alawai, but there are patches, I wanna say of Kapa Kulu Avenue, definitely no shared use path, definitely narrow crosswalks. Again, really inconvenient and you're not going to see a lot of people, you're definitely not gonna see a lot of cyclists on the road. I might have seen some people walk their bikes, not convenient for a cyclist obviously, because if you're cycling, you wanna stay on your bike as much as possible. Not just like walk and push your bike. And same thing on the McCulley side, I've seen a lot of cyclists. That was actually my early days too. As someone who spends a lot of time on the road doing deliveries, I do feel comfortable doing it, but I understand that I am not, probably like 98, 99% of people. During my early days, when I was bicycling back when I was just only using B-Key, B-Key, shout out to B-Key. I only, I often just got on the sidewalk and walked my bike across just to get into Waikiki, which unfortunately is not very, you know, it's telling how unsafe I felt and definitely not convenient if you have to walk your bike across. Yeah. I guess I've done this route myself, and I used to more frequently do the bike routes that goes basically along the Alawai on the Malca side and then down Alawai on the Makai side and just cross at the McCulley bridge and the McCulley bridge is awful. McCulley is awful. I mean, McCulley is a street that's four lanes wide, I guess, and seems to always have six lanes of traffic on it. So I sympathize with that idea, although some people raise the question of why it's needed, but I think you make the case that it's not a huge distance down. If you're on the Alawai and the University Avenue, the end there, it's not a huge way to go to McCulley or a huge way to go to Kapaulu, but it's an inconvenience that it does, I'm sure, discourage the people from taking the bike there. So... I could get into it too. The other thing I thought about too is if you do walk or bike, there's a long ways between Kapaulu and McCulley, especially by foot, never mind by bicycle. Sorry also to the Alawai Canal, that is a terrible bike lane, no offense to anyone who ever designed it because it's next to like 200 cars, never mind the traffic that is definitely gonna fly by you at 35 miles per hour, but cyclists are often concerned that a door will open up on them suddenly, and if you're biking, blasting really fast, that it could lead to... If you hit the door straight on, it'll lead to an injury, but the door could also knock you into traffic, which is gonna cause a lot of other injuries. And just having a more central route to get into university, McCulley would be, again, safer and more convenient for the reasons that I guess. It's not as long of a route, and there are already a lot of people who actually bicycle and walk actually on the other side, the Malka side of the Alawai Canal, just kind of like adds to that traffic, but there really is a good amount, at least all the times I've ever biked and walked by. And speaking of the Alawai, I mean, either you're in that bike lane going with traffic, waiting for a door to open in front of you, or you're on the sidewalk, which is problematic for, because it's not really a sidewalk from excuse, and it's also not straight. You have to curve around every palm tree and so forth. So it's not, depending on which way you're going, you're either coming up behind pedestrians or you're coming down in front of them. But there is a plan to approve that, I think, is there not, there's got to be, we don't know when, but there's a plan to approve, move the parked cars on the Alawai and create a bike lane on the other side. Isn't that coming sometime? I don't want to escalate the timetable as I am not a planner for Department of Transportation Services or Complete Streets. They do have that in the works. They're supposedly supposed to be something like a two-way bike lane, at least for parts of it, or some of it, and they're going to get rid of, I believe the estimate is about 20% of the parking to create enough space for that. And I also want to mention, yeah, folks do not, it is illegal to bicycle on sidewalks, which is the sidewalk next to Alawai Canal. So I usually don't, and there is, there's a lot of people who do walk and jog and do other things through. So I take my chances with the bike lane. It sometimes actually gets even congested on that bike lane. Sometimes I'll just take the road. I'll take the right lane, and I'll just spot myself there taking the lane, so to speak. So I will get to, bike lane despite how bad it is, it is used. Yeah. When we'll get to the struggle over losing 20 parking spaces some other time, I'm sure there'll be a protest about that. But going back to what you said, you said something like 17% of the people on Alawai who do not have automobiles, is that right? Yeah, there's a study from Brookings Institute. I, if I had a way, I would put a link up on it. But the State of Hawaii also got a book through the US Census also, they track carless population. They track zero car households. And they can also tell you how many other number four or two based on people who responded. So all the data is out there. Yeah. That's not what Brookings pulled it from actually, they probably, the census. I doubt they did a study around the water. So I would also guess just on experience that many of the households in the Aboelele, Macaulay area, which is pretty congested, are those households without cars. And also many of the people, the residents of Waikiki who we often forget about, but I think if I remember 35, 40,000 people live full time in Waikiki where parking is difficult. Then if you move on up University Avenue, you've got the university population. Many of whom don't have a vehicle either by choice or by consequence. So my guess would be that the people on both sides of this bridge are among the communities or those communities are among those that have the most people without our mobiles. You think that makes sense? It's hard for me at university side, I could believe the average amount of cars per household on Oahu is two. I have seen data that you get when you get more to our town, it shrinks down to one. Therefore, by a statistical probability, statistical averages, yes, there are probably more zero by your friends, more zero households when you get toward town. Because it's also just going to be, the sun there is probably a few households that have two or a bit of three cars that you get the idea of. From there to averages, but the average is going to be, it's either gonna probably, the amount of people who own one car or less definitely gets higher when you get to more town or less, zero. Well, you're cooking a fish and I go by the seat of my pants, anyway, so let's look a little bit at some of the opposition. There is always opposition to projects like this, like rail, like anything. I worked for Hawaiian Electric for 20 years and if you wanted to put up a poll you had that, you of course, you had to have a community meeting as you should. And of course, there were people turned out and said, oh, that will block my view and so forth. When you look as a planner yourself, but if you look at the complaints or the opposition or the arguments, are there any there that are at all convincing to you? Are there any there that you say, well, you know, maybe they have a point? First off, I want to go back to my opinion or editorial. My first word of the first sentence is arguments. So I got some comments that Anthony, you shouldn't name call people. I have not. And if you were, if I knew you opposed the bridge, rest assured, I'm still very friendly, approachable. I've had people who debate with me and I'm usually pretty nice with them, but I am going to, arguments, I'm sorry, but don't have feelings, don't have rights. You're entitled to your argument, but I still will treat you as a human being with respect and kindness that you deserve. That's good. But let's go ahead. Well, we can argue about that for a long time about it, but let's talk about the bridge. So are any of the arguments or any of the comments that you heard at the meeting or that you got, I didn't like it, I didn't pick the comments you got on the piece were good and nobody signed their name. So I tend to just let those go, but is there any of the opposition that you think, well, you know, maybe they have a point or I wonder how we can, if there's a way to deal with that. Anything at all? Okay. The self about it bringing crime is not based on evidence as I kind of addressed on my editorial. There are complaints about its design, which I'll be fair, I actually don't have strong opinions about it. They want to get rid of the sale thing and stick columns into the water. There is an argument that it will impact paddlers, however, there are columns on the McCulley Bridge and the paddlers seem to be navigating it through. So there is some criticism about the design even though the principle is good. So there's that bit, that's a legitimate thing. But I as a planner, I only think about the public good. So I don't think about athletics. Will it benefit this community as a net? Yes. And if I may, Peter, there is one argument that is based on evidence that has not been touched upon that people have not brought up. If you want me to share it. Share it, let's start. So projects like this tend to lead towards gentrification. If you are worried that it is going to make your rent more expensive and price you out of Mo'ili'ili or Waikiki, that complaint would be legitimate because there are studies and evidence, unfortunately, that like support this stuff. The cost of living on Waikiki is really high. I should stop smiling, but I'm just smiling because it's just an argument that hasn't brought it up. But the project like this do, there were people who are worried about their property values dropping with the increase in time. It will actually probably be the worst, your property values will likely increase and that might make your rent more cheap, more expensive, excuse me. Assuming you don't have a lockdown with a mortgage or something like that, your monthly payments. And so there is that. But that's a longer term effect as order to place, but this is historically even true. The most complete streets, they tend to be gentrification projects. Many major transportation works tend to be gentrifiers, notorious gentrifiers. So I haven't heard that one actually, so. Yeah, there are, there is a complete streets plan for University Avenue to also increase the bike lanes and so if it is gentrification, or that it's coming bridge or not, but the bridge is part of that plan. I guess for me, the aesthetics do matter. And I look at the pictures of those, of that sale, if that's what it is. And it doesn't warm my heart, what could I say? It doesn't, I do take aesthetics into account that it seems like too much. I work for Hawaii Electric, as I've said, and I work with a lot of engineers. And engineers tend to over engineer. In my experience, they want the gold-plated solution rather than something that is inadequate. So it does bother me a bit that this thing has turned into much bigger physically than it was that I envisioned it in my mind. I envisioned something like the Macaulay Bridge, but it got a little better than the Macaulay Bridge has turned out to be. Is there anything that can be done about that, do you think, as a planner? Is it too late to modify that design or do you think it's a done deal? By the way, there was also, I think I mentioned a bicycling and pedestrian bridge in Chinatown, actually, I can almost like, if there wasn't, if the Chinese cultural closet wasn't my way, I'd be able to see that bridge. And that design is actually, if you saw us see it, it is much simpler. A lot of this is, I think where there's a political will, there is a political way. A lot of this is politics-driven. Sorry, this bridge, infrastructure projects, in my opinion, should not be political. No, I don't think it's too late to change design with enough political groundswell, it can change. However, because 60% of the design is already complete, if we change the design at this point, people are already complaining about the cost of the bridge. If we change the design, the cost will go up and not like in a small kind way. I mean, you almost kind of have to like go from such, hopefully they have a backup design just sitting about, but even then it's probably not like in-depth. Like, it went through architects or engineer scrutiny. In all likelihood, we will lose much of the money that has already gone into the design of the project and it will be expensive to redesign. But yes, it is possible. It can be done with enough. If you message your mayor, your city council, whoever enough, if there's enough, even civil servants, which I am, but I don't work on the project, thankfully, I would love to work on the project, but I don't work on this project so no conflict of interest. But us, we as civil servants, we care about public opinion. We care about public pushback. We listen and read about it. And as extravagant as some projects, people feel like have been, they might've been more without the pushback and we listen to, but we listen to the people we serve. That's it. I am not pretty. I saw like I work, you know, I was a civil servant on this project. I haven't read. I've watched a couple of community meetings. I've voiced my support for the project. I am a stakeholder as a small business person, as a delivery person who spends probably at least 60% of his weekend shift, bicycling up and down, Waikiki and O'Uli Uli. So though I'm not a resident, I am a stakeholder. I came in and I shared my piece and never have I actually ever touched upon the design of the project. I just want this to happen. I want a better bicycling and walking, crossing, especially considering our current situation. Yeah, that's fair and I think and I respect you for, first of all, for clearing it up if anybody thought that you were in some kind of great conflict of interest or that you worked on the project and also because you put your opinion out there and you signed your name to it, which to me is an act of bravery. Whether I'd agree with you in this case, I do or I disagree with you. If you're going to express an opinion in a public swarm like the newspaper, put your name on it. And if any of those comments that followed your article or any others, if they want to be treated with respect, they need to put their names on it as well. So I give you kudos for doing that and for frankly not holding back. I don't think anybody will miss the point of your article whether you're all for this, for this bridge. And I responded to those comments on my name. You can actually see at the check, like if you're lying, I didn't hide behind a safe name or pseudonym or anything like that. You could maybe wonder if it was really me and is there someone in the person need to be me? But no, that was me. That's Anthony Chang. There is Anthony Chang, the comments are and Anthony Chang, the author are one and the same for this article. Yeah, as I say, that is worthy of respect. And I do agree that the bridge already built. I guess I have my some reservations. I guess the bridge would also, it's going to be about 20 feet wide if I get the information correctly. And I wonder about, you've seen the possibility or in danger of kind of a conflict on the bridge between pedestrians, some of whom will be pushing strollers and so forth between those folks that have people on traditional bicycles peddling and then the electric bike folks, I think of one year one. Do you think that's going to be a problem? Is there any way to deal with, if you do, is there any way to deal with that problem? One of the things the city could do better is make it evident what is the speed limit for a bicycle for a shared use path, which is this is the legal and legal clone offer. While I was wondering what a shared use path is, that is a path that is legal, but it often looks like a sidewalk, but some shared use path examples, and Yeezy wants to pick up the state capital, technically not a sidewalk, shared use path, the path that goes through Almanlou Halle, the diamond head side, where the zoo goes up to Kapakulu, up to Alawai, those are all legally shared use paths, and they could just put shared use path, speed limits, nine miles per hour, less than 10 miles per hour, and there, but I would argue it's relative. If a pedestrian, most people were walking, if they had to choose, it would be horrible to get hit by a bicyclist if you were walking, but you'll probably survive, you'll be upset, you might get an injury, but you'll live, especially if you get relative to getting hit by a car, which is something that is more possible, especially on the Wakali side, Kapakulu side too, at various points, where I've had some people actually just kind of like, they've had to hop, they wanted to be polite, and get all the person's way, they kind of hopped into the street, which is not, but yeah, can there be a conflict? Yes, but it doesn't have to be a serious, the automobile versus pedestrian, a cycling conflict, and hopefully with a bit more education or vacation, you'll change people's behaviors. Yeah, well, that's a hopeful attitude, and I agree with it. I think as people get used to walking and scooting and rolling through these mixed-use areas, a multiple-use area is that people will get used to it. They certainly have gotten used to it in Europe, it didn't happen overnight, but you see shittings like Copenhagen, and Oslo, and others, it's not called where somehow, and there are accidents of course, from time to time and everywhere in Amsterdam, but by and large, people have gotten used to it, it just doesn't happen overnight, unfortunately. And at a local level, during what is like work rush hour, you get a lot of people walking and bicycling on the Honolulu Halle and state capital grounds, as far as I know there haven't, I mean, yeah, they haven't, thank God forbid, any deaths, but definitely no permanent injuries, nothing that cripples, see, but I know. Well, there's a lot of people, I know this because it's about the time I go home. There are a lot of people walking and bicycling on that shared-use path during rush hour as well, and same thing, I'm sure people got used to it. Maybe there is a complaint, I probably not enough to check to warrant a change, you know, I haven't seen, I think on the state capital at one point, they were even discussing like a dedicated like bike path, that never happens, and there we are, you know, I guess it wasn't even warrant enough for, again, if there was enough political will for it, my opinion would have happened and it hasn't, probably just because there aren't enough conflicts for it to happen. Well, let's hope that's true. Anthony, thank you so much for running out of time. I really appreciate your coming on and talking about this. I think we've had a great exchange, not just what's great about the bridge, which I think we both agree on, but trying to figure out if there's some way to make it better and to make it more palatable, even to the people who are opposed to it. But I really appreciate your commentary. I'm sure you spoke at the meeting and your commentary and the Star Advertiser and your commitment to cycling is, to me, very, very honorable and very much to be praised. So I want to thank you for coming on the program again and I'm going to go now to our microavailability moment, which is how I end most of our shows. This is a repeat if you're a regular viewer, but here is, if you're thinking about an electric bike, I really encourage you to go to this site and the League of American Bicycles and People for Bikes to national organizations have put together an e-bike education program. And so before you maybe go to your local bike shops, which are some of which are terrific and will help you out, spend some time on this site and learn a little bit more about electric bikes. You learn about how you should behave. This is the kind of education that we're just talking about. It's not just pedestrians, it's cyclists who need to be and drivers, everybody needs to be educated. So I really encourage you to take advantage of this and the last picture here, I will show this for the very last time. It's me learning to ride a bike at about 14 years old. I was the last kid on my block to learn to ride a bike and it took a long time, but I finally found my balance and I encourage you to learn to ride a bike and learn to get back on a bike if that's, you know, if you've been on one before because it's fun, especially an electric bike, it's good for the environment, it's good for your health. So with that, I'm gonna thank Anthony once again, appreciate it. Thank you to my two regular viewers for watching and we'll be back with the two wheel revolution in a couple of weeks. Aloha. Aloha Mahalo.