 Welcome back, it's still the breakfast and plus the Africa set for first major conversation I'm sure you may have heard by now, the Nigeria's federal government has presented a certificate of registration to the Congress of Nigeria University Academics, otherwise known as Konoa. Now, Minister of Labor and Employment, Chris Singigay, who earlier walked out of a meeting between himself, stakeholders in the education sector, and the ASU members. He presented a certificate to Konoa on Tuesday, Konoa is a breakaway faction of the academic staff union of universities. The Minister Singigay also presented a certificate of registration to another union, a new union known as the Association of Medical and Dental Academics. That's a very interesting one, they're called NAMDA for short. Now, the development comes amid a strike by the university lecturers under ASU over the demand for increased funding for public universities, a review of lecturers' salaries and allowances, amongst other issues, some of which have been signed as an agreement between the unions and the federal government for some time now. Now, the strike has lasted over seven months and is showing no signs of abating if the last meeting between the stakeholders in the education sector is concerned. Now joining us to provide analysis of this is, as it affects the ongoing strike by ASU, we have Ambrose Igboke, he is a public affairs analyst and he joins us live from the very serene city of Inugu, Nigeria. Ambrose Igboke, good morning and thank you very much for your time. Good morning, thanks for having me here. All right, first of all, is there anything in the law, as far as you know, anything in even the practice of how governance and how unions operate that says we should have only one union profession, for instance? There is no law that says that we should have one union. In fact, the constitution enshrines freedom of association and that is what is enshrined in the constitution. So people are free to join, to form associations, be it professional, be it political, be it no religious, be it anything. So far it is under the law, so far it's not a violence group, so far it's not a terrorist group. But freedom of association is a fundamental right of citizens of the Federal Republic of Nigeria. So people can always form that. Even the ASU itself, people came together to form it so that they can foster common interests. So that has been what has happened over the years, but this twist is like even data rather than, you know, a common interest. Before people come together because of needs, because of persuasion, because of you know, ability to have a cohesion of their wants and their needs and their interests. But this one, I think, is also an encouragement from the federal government to bring the ranks of ASU. This is not the first time the federal government is doing this. I remember during the Abbasan Jail era, during the first high protests by the Niger Labor Congress, NLC, the government brought a law and ensured that they created other associations. So they brought up the Trade Labor Congress, the TLC, I mean Trade Union Congress, the TUC. And the TUC has been existing side by side with NLC. This one that I brought, we could see that Chris and the guy, Dr. Chris and the guy, as a president, as a minister of labor is not doing well in this negotiation. He has so penchant for intemperate measures in dealing with unions. We saw this when the Joheso strike took place. We saw this when the Dr. strike took place. We see this in ASU strike taking place. The same method, the same aloofness, the same incapacity to mediate, you know, the same temerity for, I mean, penchant for arrogance. You know, these are these are the characteristics that Dr. Chris and the guy has brought to fall as Labor Minister. So it doesn't fit him. A labor person should be able to mediate, should be able to negotiate, should be able to know how to represent the federal government. I'm not putting the federal government in a very difficult situation. I'm sure because some of these things are advised from ministers and aides that, you know, you recommend to the federal government. If he has recommended to the federal government to throw the line of peace and throw the line of mediation and negotiation and a kind of concession from both sides, that would have been better. Now, this corner is that they think that is a solution to the problem. It's laughable because they are the same lecturers. Anybody who is working, who wants a better welfare package, wants a better pay, I want a better system and a conducive environment for work. So I wonder if this corner will not work in the Nigeria University system. If they are still part of the Nigeria University system. Well, it's not that it's going to change. Somebody jocularly said yesterday that Konoa is part of the language called Konoa Continua. So Konoa Continua. So somebody said that it's continuous, you know. But what we are saying is you don't duplicate union groups, labor union groups as a way to run the way from fixing the realities of demands of labor unions. You don't do that. And I don't know if the federal government does not learn what they created in trade union congress, the fact that strike will not go on again. But today, when they go on strike, TUC will meet with NLC and both of them will decline strike. So at this time, everything will happen in the university system if there are needs for, you know, things better welfare package and demands from the federal government. Of course, the TUNOS will come together and, you know, make demands of the federal government. So instead of dealing with one union, the government is multiplying the numbers of, you know, it should be dealing with our particular issues. This is a very, very negative way to go. And Dr. Chris is just trying to create problems for future labor ministers and trying to create problems for future governments. Would you say that this is another case of divide and rule? I mean, this is a practice that's been going on for a very long time. Would you say that with having another faction, that this is just a case? This one is not even another faction. Because when you use the word faction, you are talking about people in the same group who are claiming the same name of another of the group having to leadership, for example, let's say when the NLC had issues of election, where there was a general faction, where there was Wabba faction, that is what you call used the word faction. So would you say that this is a case of divide and rule? It's not even a faction. This one is trying to, this place is, this one is a case of insensitivity where a few of the lecturers who are not part of, who are not part of ASU have been selected and when you see the spread of membership of this KUNA, you see that there are very few. So you are right to say that it's another measure of divide and rule tactics. But this will not work because the same lecturers are dividing. Are the same people who are working in the same system? They want better pay. They want a better welfare package. They want better funding for research. They want their patents to be seen. They want the town to meet the gown. They want to go back to sponsor the mass production of their patent to fund research and do other things. Those are the things they are asking for, basically. So unless the other union that created says they are not working in a national university system, if they are, the same problem will continue. And they have created an avenue to have multiplicity of unions to deal with. It's a very sound development. All right. ASU's response to this is to say that this particular union is a unnecessary distraction. And of course, nothing will come out of it. Do you expect or suspect that this move may turn the hand of ASU to say, OK, let's see how we can we can come to an agreement with the government and not be too be too hard in our position, in our stance. You suspect that this will maybe force the hand of ASU or force ASU and the leadership to take a more soft approach and meet the federal government halfway. As citizen of Nigeria, I am very ashamed that my government, the federal government, will reach an agreement with citizens. I will not give to it. That is the foundation of this problem. When you reach an agreement or when you have a set of agreement with your citizen, be it in front of unions, be it as a contract manifesto, be it as a social contract, economic contract with your people, you must limit it. And you say there's no money, but you are funding a lot of extravagance. So who will listen to you when you say there's no money when you have not cut down your own expenses at the various public office levels, when you are still funding NNPC with huge sums of money for the refineries that are not working with huge sums of money. How much is that also asking for? So this thing shows a lot of insincerity. OK, I'm sorry to introduce you, but the word I believe I was looking for is an inconsequential. As to describe it as inconsequential. Is this development truly and really totally inconsequential? It is not inconsequential, but I will agree with the first word. This is a distraction from the meat of the matter. The meat of the matter is on all the agreements you signed with these people since 2009. 2009 is 13 years. You have renegotiated those agreements. You have set up panels. You have agreed on new terms. You didn't open your own panel's recommendation. You didn't follow them. What kind of government views that way? So what we are now saying is that all of the agreements that you have with ASU and then if there are middle grade, if you have issues, present your budget, not arrogantly talking down on your intellectual class. I mean, that is the kind of thing talking down in intellectual class. Some of those people are professors, increasingly is a medical doctor. Some of those are professors of medicine and some of that. So when you don't respect your intellectual class, then what class of citizens will you respect? And that is where we have the fundamental issues. The young ones are watching. The young lecturers are watching. There is a brain drain going on now. People are living in the country. Our professional care that they are living in droves. And then we are comfortable as a country. So what we are saying is that is a distraction. We are talking about having a speedy conclusion to the negotiations. ASU brought a distraction. I mean, a federal government brought a distraction. They went to court. The court case is still there where they're delivered and then the appeal has been done. We are talking about even saying, pull out this case from the court. Let's finish it on a negotiation table. And then a minister for labor came up with this grand distraction. It's a big distraction. So what is Kona going to do? Kona are going to tell members, how many members do they have across board? Is it going to tell them, open the classes, open the university? Even the federal government through the NUC that issued, that gave directives to the vice chancellor's to open the universities. How to retract that? Because that is not the way to go. Federal government even recognizes the fact that that is not the way to go. So I don't know if the federal government or the presidency gave Mr. Chris, his blessings to carry out this action. I'm expecting that there should be maybe a refuter from the presidency for this action. Well, so what will be the implication, I mean, of this now having Kona as a union? The implication is the federal government is as multiplied as troubles. The federal government has made this, it will start negotiating with many unions in future. That is just the implication. Because the problems are still there. Which one will come with this problem? The NAMDA, what do they call the new one? The NAMDA, we come with this problem. We come with this problem. Asu, we come with this problem. So instead of negotiating just with one union that was taking care of all these shapes of interest, we will start negotiating with three different unions. And more will come up. So they should be ready to issue more certificates. And that is where the problem, where you start, where you are straight. So this is, you are incubating problems for the future. That is the hydro-heated problem that is being incubated right now. But just to solve, I mean, quickly, do you think that this would actually help solve the problem of getting the students back to the classrooms? And I mean, of course getting the lecturers to the classroom. No, I don't think this will solve the problem. I only think that this may lead to rebellion. This may lead to internal, grandstanding among the lecturers. Now they will have factions among themselves. This one you have for those, some lecturers, we see the other ones are suitable to us. Some will see the other ones as against us. And then the next thing they will start having, having internal crisis within the university. And that will make it worsen the situation of where there's no agreement on what to go back to class or not. But before, before now, if Asu gives directive, the members will respond. Now you are asking Asu to give directive, Konoa will say they will not respect the directive. Where Konoa gives directive, Asu members will say they will not, they have created a crisis. That is what it means. So the chairman of Konoa, before they were even recognized, he was already moving around. I mean, this application has been there for some time now, for some years now. The application for them to recognize as a union, they simply went and dusted that file and approved. But the sitting of the national industrial court of Nigeria and Abuja a couple of weeks ago, where the judge, the vacation judge made a ruling, ordering Asu to go back to the classroom whilst the case is on, citing the Trade Disputes Act. The Konoa president was there. At the end of that pronouncement by the judge, he was interviewed by the press. And he says he's in support of the lecturers going back to the classroom. He was in his uniform, complete with a cap with the inscription Konoa. So they're already ready. What do you foresee happening if this union now calls its members and says go back to the classroom? Do you think that a number of lecturers, a realistic or sizable number of teachers will return to the classroom to teach? Do you think that probably the government will employ new lecturers and fire the ones who refuse to go back to the classroom? I want to talk about this also, linking it with the view of President Buhari, who is aware of what is going on, probably has approved it because he has said that Asu, with their stance, they are destroying the investment of government in education. And it's unacceptable what they're doing and how they're going about their agitations. Well, I keep mentioning that this is a curse. I mean, this is a crisis in the academic system. Konoa itself, that had been seeking recognition. Why was it not recognized before the strike of Asu? That goes to show that the federal government did not want the multiplicity of unions in the university system. But because now it is convenient for the federal government in its way to spite Asu to try to break the strand that have been going on. Quickly recognize Konoa. Konoa that have been floating since for years now. Quickly with the fiat, quickly. So that's used to show that first of all, why is there the sincerity of the federal government on the recognition of Konoa? Having said that, the crisis in the university system has been lingering. Asu strike has been going on for decades. So that means it is a perennial problem. And part of this perennial problem was brought in, in 2009, let's address it in a very general way to ensure that we take care of these problems once and for all, not piecemeal. That was what the 2009 agreement was able to achieve. But what we now see is that the federal government said, okay, the budget is too low. We'll fund it 50 billion every year for the next five years to be able to get this done. But it has not been done. Asu gave a lot of warning strikes before this thing took place. The federal government ignored them. And these things that have been going on. Yes, Asu has a hard stand feeling that all the time, all the while, when they were asked to call off strike, they called off strike and nothing happened. Over the years, this thing has been lingering since 2009. So they have been calling off strike, calling off strike. So for them, they think that this is like the final battle is let's do it or leave it. And so that is the standard, Asu on the side. The standard of the federal government is, the other side is that, oh, there is no money. But you are saying there's no money and you are funding extravagance. So it doesn't tally. The two of them have to come to the table. The House of Representatives is making their thoughts to see how they can solve this problem. They have not finished. The various committees set up to make recommendation are doing it. A lot of Nigerians are coming and it's okay. How do you do to switch this interest of Asu? And the interests are not personal. They are for the Nigerian university system. So Konwar too. Konwar, I say if Konwar doesn't, Konwar members, they have classrooms. They're not classrooms. Go to federal universities and state universities and see what their lecturers are suffering. They don't have classrooms. Some of them don't even have offices. They hang around. Some of them don't come lecturers. Some of them borrow offices. We go to our labs. There's nothing. Some students are having students undergraduate of computer science that don't even have basic computer systems to work. We go to our laboratories. Nothing is there. These are the things that I'm talking about. Where is the funding? So when people think that it's only about Asu salary, about the lecturer salary, they're missing the point. Go to a lot of Niger companies. They will tell you that a lot of graduates are not employable. Why? Because the educational system has gone down the drain, especially at the tertiary level. What are we doing about this? These are the issues that Asu is facing. Konwar, is Konwar members of Konwar operating in mass? They're also in the Nigerian tertiary academic system. And they also be hit by distance, also by this deficiency that Asu is trying to address. What do you foresee happening when they return? Because they've said they are ready to return to work. What do you foresee happening when they go back to the classrooms? Because students are also... You mean Konwar, if Konwar said they are going back to the classroom, I don't think many parents will release... I will not release my words. Many parents will not release their words for now. Because then it's a political thing. And then they're just trying to break. So until... Because most of the lecture... Konwar just has an impeachment number of members as lecturers. The majority of the lecturers are in Asu. So if they're open, students will not... Parents will not be in order to release their students until they are sure that they are gathered enough members. And this will drag for a while. This will drag for a while. And that is not what is expected. We need a speedy resolution to the matter. And I'm calling on the federal government to rethink this matter and see how they can expeditiously address this issue so that our children can go back to school. But Mother, just quickly, I mean, a lot of people have thought that, you know, having the private sector in the educational system may not be the end of the day. Some people say schooling in Nigeria, the tertiary institution, it's so much not expensive. And so let's have, you know, the system entirely privatized. I mean, hands of government. Do you think that that's the solution to all of these issues? No country anywhere in the world does that. The Nigerian government cannot ablicate its responsibilities to its citizens. You don't do that. There are fundamental duties and obligations of the federal government to the Nigerian citizens. And part of it is education. Part of it is health. Part of it is housing, security, food security, physical security, and territorial security. So some of these things are fundamental rights of the citizens, rights to education. Rights to be educated is enshrined in the Constitution. In fact, it's a universal declaration of human rights part of it. So we should, the government is not doing the citizen a favor by educating them. It is the responsibility of the government at all levels to educate its citizens. Therefore, saying that it will totally privatize is not agreeable anywhere in the world. All we can say is that federal government, federal government should encourage private participation by having maybe tax waivers by encouraging people to say, okay, if you invest in education this way, you get a tax cut in this. These are the ways we encourage corporate organizations to come into education and then they can now fund some critical aspects of education. Ambrose Bokeh, we have to go. Here we have to go, Ambrose Bokeh. Very interesting analysis from you. We'll see what happens in this, in this sounds like the dais cast. We'll see what happens going forward. It makes for an interesting plot. But thank you so much for your time and for your analysis this morning. Thank you very much for having me. All right, all right. Thank you very much, sir. It's still the breakfast on Plus CV Africa. When we return, we have a conversation on the World Teacher's Day. Today's World Teacher's Day, merci. I do not know if you'd like to switch to becoming a teacher, you know. It's a noble profession, my parents are teachers. So we'll be right back. Please stay with us. Have a good breakfast on Plus CV Africa.