 Okay, here we go. We're live on YouTube. Hello friends, welcome. We'll get started in just a moment. Let some folks fill in the room. Let me start my screen share. Hi, welcome everyone. If somebody from the audience could let me know they see my screen. And here my voice that's always helpful to me. Thank you. All right. We'll give it just a few more seconds and I see hands raised already. We'll definitely have time for Q&A at the end. Our presenter is very thorough at answering all the questions. And has an email. Should you have further questions? So there will definitely be time for that. You could also put your questions in the chat box and. If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them in the chat box. California native plant society will help answer those as well. Lots of lots of questions at these ones. All right, let's get started. First off, thank you for joining us on a Saturday afternoon. And I know it's a beautiful sunny day out there. Our winter summer, San Francisco. We are so happy to have our friends, and we are so proud to be here with you again, which is fantastic. We want to welcome you to the unceded land of the Eloni tribal people and acknowledge the many raw, Mutush Eloni tribal groups and families as the rifle stewards in which we live, work and reside here in the Bay Area. We are up, committed to uplifting the names of these lands and community members from these nations with whom we live together. We encourage you to learn more about first person culture and our committed to hosting events providing educational resources on these topics. And we will put a link into the chat box that has all this information about the library news, as well as information to the California native plant society. And today's presentation. The library is not a neutral institution and we stand in solidarity with our Asian American community, as well as our Black community and that anti-Black and anti-Asian racism both uphold white supremacy and the library does not approve. And we are all harmed by these racial structures and we believe that everyone has a stake in dismantling white supremacy in favor of true multiracial democracy. The library's motto is libraries for all and we stand by that. The link in the chat box leads to our information about our racial equity commitment and you can find that. Or you could Google SFPL racial equity and you'd find all the work we've been doing lately. We are the last week of celebrating AAPI month and we have author Vanessa Hoa who is our on the same page author. On the same page is a bi-monthly read where we encourage Olive San Francisco to read the same book. And the book we have read is A River of Stars. And the book we have read is A River of Stars. So tomorrow at 4 p.m. we'll be doing a book club about the book. And then May 24th on Tuesday, we will have Vanessa Hoa and Yalitza Ferraris in conversation talking about the book, talking about San Francisco. It's a very San Francisco book. So check it out. It's very good. Continuing with AAPI next week, we have the creators of the famous AAPI. So follow this. It's the best Chinatown seniors ever. The most stylish, the most wise. Check it out. And we'll see you at the event. Rounding out AAPI month, we have poet Clara Hoa and David Wong on Guguin. He's a Guguin master. So music and poetry. Also the slide is not up, but tomorrow at 2 p.m. we will have a co-toe player who she's just amazing. And we filmed her work at the library. She came two weeks ago. We filmed her doing her music. So we'll be playing the filming and then we'll have an interview with her. And all are welcome for that. And I'll put the link in after we get going. Our amazing poet laureate is bringing such great programs to us. And I'm so honored to be able to help facilitate these things. And I'm really excited to be able to do this. And on May 26th, we'll be hosting poetry and resistant art and conversation with contemporary giants of Mississippi. So Mississippi poets. And thanks to Tongo, we are able to do things like this. And it's going to be a good one. I'm really excited. Tongo has also brought two of the most amazing authors. And this is coming part of summer. June 21st, Mr. Marlin Peterson. This is a book. Bird Uncaged and abolitionist freedom song. And Marlin will be in Convo Convo with Kisi LeMone. Who's new latest book. His newest latest book is heavy, but long division has been republished. So a celebration of that. And I totally encourage you to read both of his books. Actually he's got more than one, two books, but heavy and long division. So good. Amazing. And we'll be moderating that conversation. And as I mentioned, it's summer stride, if you can believe it, summer is here. So, you know, we go all out at the library for everything summer. We will be hosting an author talk every Tuesday. From June to July and August, along with many other events, crafts, gardening, film screenings. We have two film screenings with director talks. So stick around, pay attention, stay tuned, check out our website for all the summer stride. And then I just want to mention some of the gardening programs that we do have for summer. And we're kicking pretty much kicking off summer with Kip McMichael, who is going to be talking about succulent gardening. And all this beautiful artwork is from our chosen, chronicle artist, Kailani Juanita. And we're going to talk a little bit more about that. Susan will be back for children's gardens. And that's happening June 26th. And today here we are. So I'd like to turn it over to Susan Karasoff. Who gardens in San Francisco clay soil. Karasoff is a member of the California native plant society, the year of a Buena chapter. She has an only the easiest plants survive approach to gardening and gardening. And she also has a variety of plants that are edible. And pollinator plants, specifically gardening to feed caterpillars and bees. All right, Susan. It's all you. Hi, I'm Susan Karasoff with the California native plant society. Thank you so much for being here today. We are going to talk about garden room elements with San Francisco garden rooms with native plants year around buffets for people in wildlife and gardening, gardening with native plants and native garden resources. So why plant native? I don't know about you, but I don't dress like this anymore. So we shouldn't be landscaping like this anymore. It is an outmoded imported aesthetic that doesn't play well with how we need to preserve our water resources here in California and in the West. And we need to plant our native plants. Our insect species are declining and our insects co-evolved with our native plants. And so our bees and butterflies and caterpillars depend on having native plants to eat. When our caterpillars decline, our birds decline. So our entire ecosystem is built and expects our native plants be there. And so we used to think that we could depend on parks to maintain all of our biodiversity, but a couple of different present studies, one by some Germans in German nature preserves. And another one in Puerto Rico's nature preserve, completely separate teams, separate studies looked at parks and nature preserves over time and saw a precipitous decline in insects. In the United States, less than 4% of our land are national parks, state parks and protected areas. So parks alone are not going to save our insects, which are the base of our ecosystems. And there's been a wonderful study by the San Francisco Estuary Institute called Making Nature City. And that report is available for free in English and Spanish on their website. And they talked about what makes it possible to preserve and enhance biodiversity in urban areas like San Francisco, and the top choices native plants, and then have been green corridors as stepping stones to help nature and wildlife move back and forth. So if what you have is a north facing balcony and you just garden and pot, you can still help our insects and make a beautiful way for them to eat and move back and forth. And the quality of our green spaces matters, which means no invasive plants, reduce the introduced non-native plants, reduce our lawn and don't use pesticides. And then the green patch size, a lot of our wildlife depends on having a larger patch of green. Coyotes, quail, they depend on having the Presidium Golden Gate Park because they need a lot of space. And then we need to take special care of our water resources, our aquifers and our large trees. 68% of San Francisco is paved and less than 4% of plants in San Francisco are native. So every plant is an opportunity to feed our ecosystem. Native plants evolved in San Francisco's varied soils and weather. We are seven miles by seven miles and we have, we've got sand soil, we've got sand soil, we've got three different kinds of rock. Plus we have three North, South wind banks, fog and wind banks. So we have a ton of different microclimates and we have an enormous variation in our rainfall from month to month and within months. Our rainfall has ranged in the last 150 years from seven inches to 50 inches annually. California and San Francisco, we get half hour rain from atmospheric rivers. And this year in 2021 and 2020, we didn't get any atmospheric rivers. So this year we got eight inches of rain. Last year we got nine inches of rain. We expect, and our plants expect 20, 20 inches. So it's really important that we plant these native plants because they have seen this variation and they have evolved to accept it and be okay with it and they're friendly to wildlife. Our plants evolved in plant communities. San Francisco's got, again, we're seven miles by seven miles. We have all these different plant communities, grasslands, oak woodlands, the creek side plant communities, dunes and dunes scrub. These plant communities, when these plants evolve together with varying different root lengths, they can share water and nutrients with each other to help them survive drought. So it's really helpful when we plant our plant communities together. A lot of good information. National Park Service in the city has got some good information. The city of San Francisco plant finder has more information and a wonderful nursery called Las Politas has got some good information on our plant communities. Plus we have information on our Yorubaana website. So native plants are the base of the food web and the way we take that food from plants is caterpillars. There is a researcher who looked at the number of caterpillars that use each different kind of plants and it turns out not all plants are the same and not all native plants are the same. In San Francisco, the willows, oaks and cherries all support over 200 different caterpillar species. So it's important to put those in our landscape. And so we'll be talking more today about those plants. They're beautiful and they evolve here and they're wonderful for wildlife. The introduced plants that we have in our landscape and so much of our landscape, those leaves feed between zero and two insects. So if we want to enhance our ecosystem and have better ecosystem services, we need to plant our natives. So let's talk about native plants in garden rooms. Garden rooms are outdoor spaces and the soft set scape elements include ground covers, vines, shrubberies, ornamental and specimen trees, shade trees, windscreens and erosion control. So we're going to look at all of that. There are a lot of charts. This is being recorded. This is the YouTube Q&A function to ask questions. It's easier to track those questions and Bob Hall will help answer those. And Anissa from the library is monitoring the YouTube Q&A, but the Zoom Q&A is a great function here. This is our backyard. I've got dogwood. I've got salmonberry. I've got that gorgeous red vine is a native grapevine. We can make beautiful garden rooms with the plants that we've got. And when we plant natives, we get this gorgeous wildlife. So we not only get the colorful plants, but we have all of this beautiful wildlife. And it makes for a wonderful experience to go outside and see all the butterflies and bees and birds and join the garden. We're going to check icons and guides so that you'll know what you're looking at. And then we'll talk about gardening with native plants and colorful native garden resources. So here are guides. Each plant is labeled with the number of butterfly and moth caterpillar species fed by that plant's leaves. Again, fed by plant leaves. So we're going to get some chewing on the leaves, but it's okay. So we've got some of these plants that are very beautiful. They're beautiful and have a healthy ecosystem. That little clock shows that we've got some of these plants are long blooming. So they're wonderful for bees and hummingbirds. And they're beautiful in our landscape because we get more color for longer. There is a wonderful website from the University of California Extension Service. And it's called Woo Calls, which is a bit of an odd thing. Wucalls is available for every city in California and for hundreds and hundreds of plants, almost every plant I've looked up has been available in the Wucalls database. Every plant I'm talking about today is either Wucalls low or Wucalls medium, which means once you get that plant established, it's not going to need additional water. I have a few that are Wucalls medium, which means they need regular water. So if you do have a lawn, you could put a Wucalls medium plant next to it and it would be fine. And then just a couple that are Wucalls high and those are our willows, which are important ecosystem keystone species for our riparian areas. So if you have a creek in your backyard that you need to plant for, our willows are perfect for that. So most of these things, drought tolerant, if it's got that little water droplets sign, it means it's not drought tolerant and it tells you an approximation of about how much water it's going to need. Let's start with ground covers. We've got a lot of ground covers. Take out that lawn and put these guys in. These are our evergreen shade plants. We have got native strawberries. They do have gorgeous little white flowers, shiny evergreen leaves. It's a perfect ground cover for your shady space. It does have real strawberries if it's pollinated and it's gotten some water. A lot of times what will happen in a drought year like this is that we'll get the flowers but we won't necessarily get the fruit if it doesn't get the expected water. But when we do get the fruit, that helps feed wildlife. And if you love strawberries, one of those strawberries, the beach strawberry, the pragaria chelulinsis, those genetics are in our supermarket strawberries. Your brabuena is a wonderful plant. We named our San Francisco California native plant society chapter your brabuena. It is fog friendly. It will live on fog drip once it's gotten established, which means about five years of making sure it gets a little bit of water. Those leaves are delicious and it's a wonderful soft fragrant to the touch plant. It smells and tastes like a combination of oregano and mint. Dwarf Mahonia, we have got a regular Mahonia, a regular barbarian that we're going to see later. That's native here. Dwarf Mahonia is a little bit out of our range, but it is evergreen, very shade tolerant, long blooming, important bloomer. It blooms in January, February and March when we don't have a lot of things blooming. So it's an important early bee plant and important hummingbird plant. You've got launch, especially a shady space. Take that out, put these guys in. We have some that are ready for partial shade. Red Fescue is one of our native grasses. It's a bunch grass. We do have a few of our native bees that like to live in the ground, in the roots of the bunch grass. It is mowable, which is fun. And it can handle some shade. The blue light grass is beautiful. It's in the iris family. It's not a grass and it's got those very friendly, cheery purple flowers and it's beautiful and part shade. Douglas Iris can deal with part shade. The species is purple, but it comes in a lot of other colors and it's low growing evergreen leaves and it's just fantastic to have in the garden. It blooms around April, Easter time. It's a lot of fun to have. And checker bloom is a lot of fun. It's evergreen partial shade. If it gets a little bit of water, if it doesn't, it will go what's called summer dormant, which means you won't see it, but it'll come back as soon as the rains revive and it's just got that big, friendly pink flower. Bees love it. We're gonna talk about erosion control again later, but I wanna point out that we've got a couple of wonderful plants that are great for erosion control on hillsides that are flat. You can also use it just in a flat space. But I know we've got 48 hills here in San Francisco, so it's very useful to have something nice and flat that will also hold the hill. Manzanita species are available in a flat cultivars and California Lilac arsino this is available flat. And I have got a scene of this problem. You're going to see it again and again because I love that plant. It's drought tolerant, full sun, gorgeous shades of blue and we do have flat versions of that. Manzanita is another important plant. It's long blooming and it does bloom January, February and March. So it's a great early bee and hummingbird plants so that we can keep hummingbirds in our garden year round. Coyote bush is another fantastic plant. Great for hillside erosion control as is our native sagebrush, which has got a couple of cultivars available that do well, that are flat. They also do beautifully on hillsides and with the sagebrush, regardless of the fact that it's the flat version or the usual species, which is a little bit more bushy three or four feet, it's got that gorgeous gray color. So it's a fantastic contrast in the landscape. We have got ground cover versions for sun as well. Our native sage is a larger bush, the hummingbird sage, but there are a lot of flat versions of California sages and so those are available of what you've got as a lot of sun. California sandaster, very low growing, golden aster, very low growing, seaside daisy, very low growing, south hill, very low growing. Wonderful and some of these are long blooming. California sandaster, golden aster, seaside daisy, all very long blooming so that you have that opportunity to continue to bring in bees and butterflies into your landscape and feed them as well as just having these really cherry flowers in sunny spaces. We do have some succulents that are native here to San Francisco. Kitmick, Michael will talk more about these and other succulents, but these succulents are native here. They grow really well on sandy and rocky soils. Stone crop is long blooming and it's a very important plant for our rare San Bruno elfin butterfly it uses that as a caterpillar plant. It's astonishing to me that caterpillars can chew through succulents, but they can and that's the joy of planting native plants. So we have some ground covers that are only here part of the time. Our violets are really important. We have a bunch of rare butterflies, four of them actually, that use the violets as that caterpillar plant. You can barely see it, that purple violet. I took that picture in my garden. Some of those leaves are chewed on but you don't notice it when you're looking at the picture. You see the big friendly leaf and you see the color and you just won't notice it in your landscape. When you put those in, it's so important that we plant for our rare butterflies. And so it would be wonderful if you put violet in your landscape. The interesting thing about the violets is that they are, they're perennials, they stay in the landscape, they stay nice and low but they will go away during the summer. So it's fun to play with some of our flatter annuals to bloom during the summer in those spaces. And so that's why I included gold fields and tidy tips. Miner's lettuce is another wonderful annual. It is a real lettuce, we can eat that and it is fantastic at spreading through the landscape I absolutely adore it. And it's wonderful. All the California annuals do well in sun part shade in shade because they are desperate to bloom. They are, it's live fast, die young for them. Miner's lettuce is particularly good in shade. I'm tidy tips and gold fields would prefer some sun but they'll, they're annuals and they'll do what they have to to make sure that they bloom. We've got some wonderful native vines. We have native clematis. So if you love clematis, we've got that. It not only has that gorgeous friendly flower but it's got a very soft seed ball after it blooms and is pollinated and the birds love to use the soft parts for their nests. We've got a couple of honeysuckles, pink one and the twin berry with red, with red flowers, wonderful in the landscape. And then we've got Dutchman's pipe vine, very unusual. Those pipe flowers bloom in January. We've got a fantastically beautiful, just a bright teal blue butterfly called the pipe vine swallowtail. The Dutchman's pipe vine is the only plant it can use in the landscape to as a caterpillar plant. So please consider planting it. I've got two of them. It's very friendly, it's very soft and I'm hoping to get some pipe vine swallowtails this year, I've had it for 17 years. But this year, I'm going to go get caterpillars from someone else and bring them to my part of the city. It is rare in San Francisco, so it's important if you've got some room for a soft vine to consider planting that so we can have the beautiful butterfly associated with it. We have a couple of vines that are very enthusiastic and need a lot of maintenance. I grew a version of the Pacific Morning Glory Vine when I lived in Los Angeles and it does spread quite a bit. It's very, very friendly. There is a very specialized bee that needs to have Morning Glory pollen for its baby bees. It's a bright white with a little bit of pink flower and it's very, very friendly. Just make sure that you are ready to have it because have it in your landscape because it does get big. And we've got native grapevines. Our regular grapevine has got green leaf that turns to yellow in the fall. The Rogers red grapevine is a cultivar that we found in the wild and then got spread because it's got that gorgeous red leaf. It's only part native. It ended up being the other part was because grapevines are wind pollinated. It got been pollinated by a Zinfandel grape. I grow that plus another grapevine which is a lot of maintenance. I don't see as many caterpillars on and in fact other bugs on the grapevine but the regular one is just an incredible bird feeder. But that also feeds birds, bird feeder in terms of insects as well as grapes. All of our native vine's want to be 40 feet. They want to be 40 feet every year. So if you have a chain link fence that you need to be covered within a couple of years and then you just are okay with it being covered every year with a lot of growth that's your grapevine. But it is a lot of maintenance. I did speak with a landscape designer once who was putting in what she called her retirement garden and I said so no grapevines and she said, yeah, no grapevines. Keep in mind shrubberies. I love the word shrubbery. I may have seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail a few too many times. If you suddenly find yourself in the Monty Python and the Holy Grail movie and you need to know where to find shrubberies I'm about to talk to you about all of our native shrubberies. We've got three shrubs that do well in any kind of sun part, sun or shade. So if what you've got is a brand new garden you need to plant some plants that are gonna be okay with sun and eventually it will be over shaded by some trees. These are your plants. I've seen the parks use these as well. They're just really friendly in terms of being able to deal with all kinds of different sun and shade, all drought tolerant. Coastbarberry is the one we talked about earlier because there's a flat version of this. This is the shrub version. It's beautiful. Those are edible, all those sour berries and it's got that fantastic yellow blossom January, February and March. Malvarosa's got beautiful showy pink flowers. Coffeeberry makes a great shrub. Definitely something that you can prune. I wouldn't normally to any other audience show what you could share in terms of California natives but I have seen so many landscapes that have got sheared shrubs that I wanna make sure you know you can share some of our natives. You can share our hollywood cherry tree. You can share some of our denser manzanitas. You can share our toyon and you can share some of our California lilacs. Each one of them grows in a different way. So the ones that are shareable are very specific to these types but if you don't need to share your plant they also make wonderful focal point plants and are great in the landscape. Manzanita again, long blooming and important in terms of early blooms for our bees and hummingbirds. California wax myrtle is also a tree. It does need a little bit more water or regular water in the landscape. It's got a nice dense form and birds will love the fruit. Wonderful, easy to maintain. It just does need a little bit of extra water. I do wanna mention the bush mallow. It is not local to San Francisco. It's got its own maintenance issues. These other plants will be unless I noted that it had a maintenance issue. They'll stay a little bit compact. That bush mallow does not wanna be cut back. A lot of different forms. That one's in my mother-in-law's garden and she and I are just shocked at how much it grows every year. I made the mistake of putting two in and it just, I cut it back, it grows. I cut it back, it grows. It's got pink flowers all summer. So if we have a horrible drought it'll only bloom for three months. If we get a lot of water it'll bloom for five months. So if you love pink and you love these because it's very be attractive and it's attractive to the painted lady butterfly. It's a larval plant for them. It's a great plant to have in a landscape. I love our huckleberry. It is extremely low growing. It will eventually get to five feet but I've got one that's over a decade old and it's now a foot and a half high and about four feet wide. The leaves remind me of Victorian box. So if you were considering putting Victorian box in your landscape please consider putting huckleberry in instead. Wonderful plant. There's a compact version called Blue Madonna. It takes shearing well. And those berries are delicious. Another not local plant is our bush and enemy. This is where you would put, yeah. If you love camellias this is your plant. It's not from San Francisco. I have seen a chewed on. The bees love the flowers. It's slightly scented. It's big friendly white flowers. Shiny evergreen leaves. It does need it to have a water signal on it. It does need a little bit of regular water but it's a fantastic plant. So if you were thinking of planting a camellia it needs just the same sun and shade and it needs just the same water. It's a really fun plant. We have a couple of plants that are deciduous. You could use them as focal point plants or you could plant them as hedges. When you plant a deciduous plant as a head you will see through it when it is deciduous and these are winter deciduous plants. That pink flowering current is an absolutely gorgeous plant for a small space as a focal point plant or you can use it as a hedge. It's got gorgeous friendly pink flowers, very showy. It is the third in our trifecta of winter blooming plants. We've got the manzanita, we've got the barberry and we've got the pink flowering current that all bloom December to February and are important early blooming plants for hummingbirds and bees. And the ocean spray is really interesting. Only grows on sandy soil, beautiful in the western part of the city. Showy white flowers, light scent. Let's talk specimen trees, isn't that gorgeous? That's one of our local willows. We've got a lot of great ornamental trees. We've got the toyon, which has got those red showy berry clusters in the winter. So not only will you get showy berries but you're gonna get a ton of birds in the winter, both the local and the migrating birds who stop to get a snack off of your tree and so you're gonna have a wonderful bird walk watching opportunity with the toyon. California Lilac, we talked about that as a ground cover. We talked about that as a shrub. It also has a variety of tree forms and it is spectacular as a tree. Western Redbud, not local to San Francisco but if you simply have to have a pink flowering tree please put in that one. It's going to have at least a few more bugs chew on it than a plant you would have from somewhere else. Hollyleaf cherry, it is an ornamental tree. Showy white flowers, it is also a shrub or you can use it as a tree. Blue elderberry is wonderful. It is deciduous but it's just such a bird feeder. I've got a ton of insects and then the showy white flowers and then the showy blueberries and then I can eat the berries and the birds eat the berries. So it's a lot of fun to have in the landscape. Hollyleaf cherry, also a bird feeder. Again, insects and fruit. The Coast Silt Tassel is such an interesting tree. It is evergreen. It's got those interesting looking tassels because it's wind pollinated. To me, it looks like an already decorated Christmas tree that I could just stick in my landscape. It's going to look great. It loves wind. It loves fog and it is just a fantastic plant to have. Manzanita is so beautiful. We already talked about the ground cover version and the shrub version. The specific shrubs that were denser can be sheared. A lot of times the Manzanitas will have this open beautiful curving red bark. Gorgeous to have in the landscape. Lots and lots of bees and caterpillars use that plant. It's beautiful. We have the red twig dogwood. I grow this and I espalier it. We've got the curved red branches with the Manzanita. The dogwood is deciduous and then you've got those straight red branches in the winter times. It's beautiful for winter interest. California hazelnut is absolutely gorgeous. I love this plant. In fact, that's a hazelnut that's in my neighbor's garden that I planted. It's got that beautiful vase-like form. I haven't had to do any maintenance to it to make it look like that. It's just great. Plus it's really friendly to wildlife and I get hazelnuts because I have two. For creeks and bioswales, if you've got a creek at the bottom part of your property, consider putting in one of our willows. We've got the royal willow and the shining willow. A royal willow can take a little bit more of a dry summer than the shining willow can. They both need to be in a creek. They are the keystone species for our riparian or creek-side ecosystems. So they support over 300 different caterpillar species and some absolutely gorgeous butterflies. So a lot of fun if you've got a creek or a bioswale. I want to mention the desert willow. I did try to grow it here in San Francisco where it is too cold. Don't grow it here. Don't do what I did. I bought it. It didn't die, but it never grew because it wasn't warm enough. But it does have very showy pink flowers and I regret that I didn't have it down when I lived in Los Angeles and I had a creek. It's wonderful with dry creeks. It grows in the desert. If I knew when I lived in Los Angeles, but I knew now I would have put the royal willow, which also grows down in LA and the desert willow down in my creek. So consider putting that in. If you've got a very, very warm space, then someplace where it will get some seasonal water during the winter. I've seen it growing out in comfort and it is, it's just gorgeous. Doesn't support as many caterpillars as our real willows does. It's called a willow for its common name because it's got narrow leaves like a willow does. Let's look at our shade trees. I put most of our trees into our ornamental just because I just think they're so beautiful. The California wax myrtle is definitely less showy, very nice tree though. A great shade tree. Our coast live oak is our only local oak and it is 70 feet. It is great to grow from an acorn. It supports almost 300 different caterpillars. It supports an enormous amount of wildlife. We've, we had one in our nearby park and it ended up getting taken out. They just put some more back in. But when that tree ended up being taken out, we had all these birds that just looked lost. They were depending on that tree. They loved that tree and it's a great tree to have in the landscape. If you've got someplace to put a 70 foot tree, that's the tree. Bigleaf maple is a wonderful tree. It's a, it's our local California maple. It grows all the way to British Columbia in British Columbia where it gets more water and it's colder. They've, they can make maple syrup out of the sap. It gets to about 30 feet here in San Francisco due to the amount of water that it gets. It gets a lot more water in British Columbia. So it'll get taller there. It supports over a hundred different caterpillars and moths. I'm lucky to have it nearby. The Green Street steps at Taylor have got a bunch of large bigleaf maples. And if you want to go just see how much life those, those maples can support, they're wonderful to see. Great to have in the landscape and a beautiful shade tree. Let's talk about windscreens. So we talked about the Coast Silk Tassel earlier. It is fantastic to screen for wind. Evergreen got those great tassels. It's, it is wind pollinated. It is, it is depending on wind to make it little Coast Silk Tassel babies. It's great with sandy soil and great with, with wind. California wax myrtle also in the same part of town. By the way, the Coast Silk Tassel, it needs to be planted within a mile of the ocean or it's just not going to be happy. It really depends on all that wind and all that fog. California wax myrtle also loves to be near the, near the ocean and near the, near the coast. That's why it's expecting a little bit more water. Both of these can deal with a lot of wind. Toyans, if you've got a sunnier area, do well in wind. The Hollyleaf Cherry, which evolved out by our dunes and dune scrub and is the keystone species for our dune scrub. Again, evolved out there. Really happy in wind and fog. So if you currently have a eucalyptus, please take that out and please put in one of our, our friendly wind friendly native plants. Let's talk erosion control. We talked earlier about California lilacs and Nanzanitas is being wonderful for erosion control. You don't just have to use the flat versions. You can use the shrub or the tree versions. If you've got, if you're on a very steep hillside, this is going to be, these are just great plants to have. They do want, both of these want some sun. And the Coyote Bush and Sagebrush are available as shrub and ground cover forms and they both want some sun. We do have some shorter plants that are available for sand stabilization. Dune, the Dune Bush Lupine is beautiful that we not only have the California Sagebrush, the Artemisa California cut, but we have one that specifically just likes sand. And so that's going to be great for you. And then the Woolly Sunflower or Lizard Tail is beautiful, friendly, gorgeous, yellow flowers and very attractive to adult butterflies and long blooming. So these are great plants to have if you need to stabilize your C&D soil. And we have taller shrubs and trees for erosion control. Got the ocean spray that we talked about earlier, Coast Silk Tassel and the Hollyleaf Cherry and trees for erosion control. We've got Coast Live Oaks, Toions and Big Leaf Maples and the Hollyleaf Cherry all do well for erosion control. I like to think of who I can feed with my garden. Can I feed myself adult butterflies, hummingbirds and bees? I wanna feed everyone in addition to caterpillars when I'm planting the native plants with the caterpillars but who else can I feed? Well, I can feed people with native plants and I can feed hummingbirds with native plants and I can feed adult butterflies as well as caterpillars with native plants and I can feed my bees. So let's talk about some specifics on gardening with native plants. Please plant during the rainy season. Make sure you understand your soil and choose the plants that are adapted to your soil. And please keep the leaves on the ground to feed your soil and hide caterpillars from birds. When caterpillars make cocoons, they're trying to hide from birds they don't want to be eaten. And it's our leaves on the ground that help protect them. So you're gonna wanna know your soil and your sun shade, your water conditions and what size plant you wanna put in. Please, please, please plant during the rainy season. Right now, if you are on this live, it is May and it does not the rainy season. Please do not plant now. Please, please decide what you want to plant and then plant when it comes to be November, December, January or February when we get our rains. Native plants are actually expecting to grow their root systems during the rainy season so they can survive a dry summer. If you plant now, you're going to need to do a lot of watering and a lot of care. I am a very lazy gardener, so I tend not to like to do a lot of care. But if you were willing to water all summer, you can make them live, but understand they will really put on some growth in terms of root growth, November, December, January and February. And make sure you understand your soil because we looked at that soil map. There's so many different kinds of soil in San Francisco, finding out which rocky soil you have. If you've got rocky soil, serpentine is green and black, chert is kind of a rose brown, sandstone is cream or white, really different rocky soils. We've got sandy soil out towards the west. We've got clay soil and fill in North Beach and in the mission, we've got loamy soil. We actually have some loamy soil. So make sure you understand what your soil is before you go and buy a plant. Our manzanitas are very soil specific. Some of them are developed just for sand, some just for clay, some just for sandstone. So make sure you understand that. Healthy ecosystem practices, chewed leaves are an evidence of a happy ecosystem. When you have caterpillars, you get some adult butterflies and moths, you have happy birds, you have a healthy ecosystem. And please permit those leaves to stay on the ground. Birds are gonna use your dried flower parts for nest materials and they're gonna eat the native plant seeds. So even when you've got a seed head on there, please consider leaving the dry looking seed heads. They're still gonna feed birds, the birds especially like our native grass seeds. Some of our native bees, such as our mason bees and sweat bees, sometimes nest in stems as well as in ground and in wood, native bees are really friendly, they don't sting, they don't make honey, but they do pollinate our plants. So please be okay if you see a bee in your garden, that's a good thing. Your native plants are gonna feed wildlife at all the plant wildlife stages, including when the flowers go to seed and plants go dormant. So please plant to feed your ecosystem in every season. Here at the California Native Plant Society, the Yerba Buena is one of the largest plants in the Native Plant Society, the Yerba Buena chapter. We've got a bunch of different plant lists for San Francisco, edible plants, bees, butterflies, hummingbirds, long looming plants, shade plants, colorful plants, our plant communities, sidewalk plants, container plants, and one that we did just for this called Landscape Design Softscape Plants. All of this is available for free at our chapter website and our biodiversity resources. Let's talk more resources. We'll talk about the Calscape Plant Selection Tool, sources for native plants. The CalFlora's got a wonderful bloom period tool, ecosystem references and iNaturalist. California Native Plant Society at this date level has rights and supports the Calscape site. It helps you choose your plant, find out what butterflies and moths are available for it, find out water needs, soil needs, and for each plant it will also tell you which nurseries carry that plant. Please keep in mind that the Calscape website has got a 10 mile radius. We're seven miles by seven miles with six different kinds of soil. So be sure to check all of their recommendations for soil type. If they're recommending something for you that isn't right for your soil type, it's they're still working on trying to get it down to a smaller radius than 10 miles. CalFlora has got a wonderful bloom period tool. If you wanna make absolutely certain that you've got something blooming for your birthday or an anniversary or you've happened to like a particular, you wanna make sure that you've got blooms in your garden all year long, which I like to do for my hummingbird and my bees. This is the best tool I've found. It's Cal, Calscape has got spring, fall, that sort of information, but CalFlora actually tells me which months things will be in bloom. Doug Tallamy is the researcher who figured out that every different plant supports different numbers of caterpillars. He's based at the University of Delaware, did his original research out there, but was paid by the U.S. Department of Agriculture to pull all of the existing caterpillar information. And he's written a couple of wonderful books. Nature's Best Hope helps us understand how we can help our ecosystem. And he just wrote Nature of Folks. It's a wonderful, wonderful book. His graduate student determined that it takes 6,000 to 9,000 caterpillars to feed one nest of chicks. So it's very important that if we want birds in our landscape, we need to plant for caterpillars. I love the iNaturalist Citizen Science Tool. It is free, it's supported by California Academy of Sciences and you can use it to explore what's growing near you. It will help you identify plants. It does not only plants, but wildlife. So very useful tool. This is part of a native plant gardening series with the San Francisco Library and in a partnership. We've talked about edible native plants gardening for San Francisco's butterflies and pollinators, shade gardening, gardening for biodiversity, garden color, and we're going to be doing children's gardens, June 26th. All of our presentations are available on YouTube. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for everyone who has pictures on iNaturalist that I borrowed. Thank you for all the professional organizations and for Tim White who did that wonderful butterfly cartoon. Thank you for all the reviewers. And we are the California Native Plant Society. We've got free latchers, free hikes, we do restoration, we advocate for native plants. And I'm going to open this up to questions. Thank you for being here. Thank you for spending part of your Saturday with us. What kind of questions do we have? We currently have no questions. So everyone, if you have any questions, please type them in the Q and A. Stephanie Schneider has her hand raised. I'm not sure if you wanted to ask a live question, Stephanie. Oh, and she put her hand down. Okay. I do that with Zoom too. I'll mean to click something and I end up clicking hand raise. We've had some wonderful questions that Bob answered, thoughts on hummingbird feeders. If your backyard has nothing in it, then go ahead and put that in while you are waiting for your native plants to grow. A lot of perennial native plants will spend their first year. It's called your first year. It looks like it looks like it doesn't do much. We're calling that sleeping the second year. It's creeping and the third year it's leaping where they get big around their third year when they've made it through their first two years of growth, where they've basically worked on their root system long enough that they can afford to put growth up above the ground and add some flowers. So it'll be about three years until your hummingbird plants are big enough. And so I support having hummingbird feeders for that. It is a lot of work and I'm a very lazy gardener. And so I definitely planted for my hummingbird and that's why we have a hummingbird plant list. It's very useful. All right, do we have any other questions? There is a couple in the Q&A, Susan. Oh yeah, okay. So someone asked about nurseries. I like all of our native nurseries. I personally like to go to East Bay Wilds in the East Bay because Pete Villu and I both are interested in edible native plants. And he's always got new information about edible native plants that I didn't realize were edible. All of them are good. We've got Bob, we've got Sutra Stewards. We've got- Yeah, I like San Bruno Mountain Latch, has a place online. You can get all of our local plants because San Francisco used to grow the same plants that you see growing on your way to the airport on San Bruno Mountain. So you can go to San Bruno Mountain Latch's website and go to Mission Blue Nursery and order right from their website and then go down and pick up what you want. Due to COVID, you can't go in and walk around and look at stuff. But for walking around and looking at stuff, I like to go over the bridge to the Richmond area and go to Watershed Nursery. To me, it's like going into a museum. Just, I can walk there for, you know, spend a whole hour and then take a 10 minute drive over to Annie's annuals and get some of these really cool annuals that Susan was just talking about. So that's a fun trip. And you could even swing by Pete's Nursery in Oakland if you make an appointment afterwards. And Oaktown Nursery is also in Oakland, another great place. They've got not only perennials, but they've got some wonderful bulbs. I just went to that for the first time about a month ago and right across the street, it's a really good Indian place to restaurant too. So you can double up on that. It's just kryptonite for me to go to Oaktown and then have Vicks chat across the street. I can get native plants and I can get really good Indian food. This is not okay. I also like Yerba Boiner Nursery down in Half Moon Bay and Bay Natives here in San Francisco. I've liked all of them. All of them have knowledgeable people. They'll really help you, especially if you're new to natives, talk through your soil and sun conditions and what you're looking. Oh yeah. And CNL Nursery in Mill Valley. And there's a, in Tam Junction, there's a nice little brewery fish restaurant that has outdoor seating that you can go to and right out the door into the native nursery, you can go shop afterwards after you've had a little libation. So that's fun too. It is fun. And Denise is asking about friends of the urban forest. You think they could use more natives? I think they could use more natives too. We've talked to them and there's some really native friendly folks working there. So we have high hopes. They do most of their native work on street sidewalks. And that might make an interesting presentation to maybe work with them on a street sidewalk presentation. They are doing sidewalk gardens in addition to urban street trees. And some of their sidewalk gardens are using more natives. They do understand the value that natives bring and they were excited. There was a Mission Blue butterfly, there is a Mission Blue butterfly that's endangered that is on San Bruno Mountain. They did a sidewalk garden nearby and they were able to get Mission Blue butterflies down there and caterpillars on the plant. So I'm excited for them and they were excited. And I'm hoping that will help them to plant more natives. You're asking if manzanita is too flammable. That's interesting. That's not one of the things I've heard. We have a fire guide on the California native plant state website which is really useful. The thing I've heard is that juniper is too flammable. The thing you do not want to plant is juniper. We don't have native junipers here in San Francisco so I haven't had to worry about that. The other thing I worry about, go ahead. They are fire adapted. Many of them will spring back to life after they've been in the way of fire. So that's one trait of them. Janet asks, if you want to remove lawn on a slope, how do you prevent erosion while the new plants are becoming established? There's a lot of really good information that's available on the internet about how to prevent erosion on slopes. I did that when I had a very steep hillside in Los Angeles and I used jute, J-U-T-E to help hold that back when I was pulling out my ice plant and replacing it with natives. And that worked out well. Outer sunset, sandy soil, problem with gophers. Is there ground cover they won't eat? That is a good question. And I don't know. Bob, do you know? I don't know. I can say dune knotweed does really well and we have gopher problems in the Green Hair Street corridor and the dune knotweed seems to stick around whereas like our seaside daisies disappear. Most of our buckwheats stick around. They're not ground covers, but they are clumpy perennials. But for ground cover, try dune knotweed. Susan didn't have it in her presentation, but it's a really good plant for bees. It's just a pretty amazing ground cover. And the thing about gophers is that they do have some wonderful natural predators. Coyotes, foxes, owls, red-tailed hawks, they all love gophers. It's delicious. They're delicious. Adelaide, you said you failed at your Yerba Buena. I would try it again this coming fall and then water it every day for that first week and then make sure it gets water every week. Make sure it gets water through the first two summers and then you can back off. Because it's expecting a lot of fog drip, it does need some water to get started. In fact, most of the natives do. Most, it's very interesting to garden out here in the West as opposed to the East Coast where the East Coast has just got so much rain. Our native plants really only successfully reproduce by themselves in nature without us in years where we get a lot of rain. And in years like this where we've had two horrible rain years in a row, it's just more challenging. If you wouldn't mind, please consider adding your soil type to this information because that would also help me. I know that it grows out on sandy soil. I've got clay soil and haven't had a problem with it. There was another Yerba Buena question in the chat also that says, is it a vigorous grower? I don't, it's certainly not a grape. Mine grew kind of slowly growing. It's polite, probably grows a foot or two and just kind of slides around between the other plants. I've got mine in containers and I have them in partial shade, but I have one that I just put out front and it's against the building. So it gets a lot of heat and it's still going. I kept expecting it to shrivel up like a, say like a fernwood, a maiden hair fern would just shrivel in all that sun, but it's doing well. So just keep feeding it water and try some cactus mix in your soil to make it more porous. Joyce is asking if it's necessary to fertilize natives. I don't. I do when I dig the whole pour water in there and make sure that the soil around it is absorbing the water because a lot of times there will be a barrier on the soil just preventing the water from getting in. I have seen places where they did fertilize natives and they seem to grow more than mine did, but I think it's a water issue. I have seen recently where Rec and Park, San Francisco Recreation and Parks Department has planted some natives in one of the parks near me and they're doing a lot of watering and those plants are growing vigorously. I believe it's the water issue, not the fertilizer. And some plants absolutely need a really poor soil. Yeah, they like our native plants here in the city mostly like sterile soil. You'll find some of those creek side plants may want some type of fertilizer, but mostly our plants, they like sterile, no nutrient soil. They'll find the little nutrients themselves that are in the soil. Of course you might have construction debris or something like that and you could add some compost, but you really don't need to. Most of the time with native plants, you can also mulch not too close to them, but around them and that will disintegrate over time and go into the soil and act as compost. And those leaves, the deciduous leaves are really important. We've got a question about container gardening suggestions east facing balconies, twin peaks. I like to do annuals and bulbs. We have a container gardening plant list. And so I love bulbs, the onions, the tritally aloxa, the brodeaia, iris, they're all wonderful. You could use the backerous, the coyote bush twin peaks. I haven't been as successful in trying to put a plant with a root system in a container, but there are people who have and you could do either one of our native strawberries as well. But what we do have a more complete list because I'm not remembering everything I've got. And it's on the website. Yeah, look, when you take your walks, look at the cliff sides and see what's kind of in those incredible, tough, challenging places to grow. And that can probably succeed in a container. So that's what I like to look at. And the strawberry works wonderfully well because it hangs over the container and gives you some draping. But then you can use our cliff side plants and like Dudlea and Seaside Daisy. Seaside Daisy may like a really deep pot because a lot of our natives like to reach way down in the soil to try to find that little drop of water when it's not going to be raining for those six months. So that's the issue with native plants and containers sometimes. So the ones that can California fuchsia is an amazing hummingbird plant and then it's very happy in the pot and I'm having success with Yaro in the pot too that grows really well and gives you some height. And it's soft too, Yaro's really nice. Got a question from someone who would like, their church would like to remove its lawn on a slope and plant native plants. And they're wondering where to start in selecting the shrubs and ground covers. You wanna look at your soil. You wanna look at the exposure in terms of sunlight. You want to evaluate whether or not you're gonna be able to water it because if you can't water it, you need to choose for the wu calls that water use classification of landscape system, you need to look at the lowest possible water needs. But also- I'm sorry, but look at your, you just dropped a PDF on our website in the biodiversity resources section that has a great place to start with your list of plants that you recommend. Yeah. Yeah, it's got ground covers, it's got shrubs, it's called landscape design softscape and that will have just, it'll have everything in a very specific ground covers, section of vine section, a hedge section, ornamental tree section to help make those choices. But you'll definitely wanna look at CalScape. You'll need to know your soil and you'll, especially with a church, you've got a lot of people who are gonna want some, a lot of stakeholders. So you'll wanna have a lot of conversations. It might be worth talking to a landscape designer to help you make some of those choices so that everybody agrees that it looks pretty when you're done. Everything that's got multiple stakeholders is always, takes a long time to do. What else do we have? Susan, I put two questions in chat from YouTube. Shall I just read them to you? That would be great. I have a large full sun backyard. What is the more economical ground covering to get started? I am trying to replace the burweed so need something invasive. You need something really happy. Got it. I tended to buy one gallon plants because I'm a terrible and lazy gardener and they have a big enough root system to get started. You could go for four inch plants. I wouldn't go much smaller than that. I've had some trouble keeping those guys, the little two inch plants alive. I haven't seen a big price difference from one nursery to another. Most one gallons costs somewhere between $10 and $15. There's that particular Huckleberry Blue Madonna where I spent $25 on a one gallon, totally worth it. It gave me berries the first year and they're delicious. But most of the native plants are about the same price. So in terms of cost effective, what you might do is space out those one gallons. If it's gonna be three feet when it's flat, put it three feet from the next one and then use a packet of seeds in between. There's this, there's the one year where you're going to do it and it's just gonna look like a mess where you take out all the weeds. I put black plastic over it and your neighbors will be upset but it'll kill the weed seeds. And then in November or December when it starts to rain. And so now during the summer, just let the weed seeds die with the black plastic, decide which ones you want, go see native plants in different parks and nurseries, decide what you want. And then in November or December, go buy them and put them in and then scatter the seeds in between them. I use native annual seeds to help things just be fresh and pretty and get the bees in there until my plants get bigger. The more you water, the more established, especially those first two years, the better those plants will do. Does that help? Thank you. And then I have a double question from YouTube as well which is what kind of edible plants can I grow in sand? And should I let wild blueberries, small blackberry with white inside grow? It was a medicine by Eloni but I don't know if it's edible. I need the Latin name unfortunately to tell you whether or not it's edible. Also there is a wonderful website. We do have an edible native plant list on our website. There is Daniel Morman's Native American Ethnobotany. And so when I know, I think she's going to pause to play around here. So when I know the name of something, then I can look it up. It is, let's see. Where can I put that? Our wild blueberries would probably be our, that girl, you can go see them right now on Mount Davidson. They're called Huckleberries as we don't have native blueberries themselves but they're in the same family. If we're sure, if you're sure it's the Huckleberry then it's edible and it's more than a medicinal plant. It's delicious. I love this plant. I have time. But the only place you can see it in the city is on Mount Davidson and right now that's putting on this new growth that comes out red and it's stunning right now. I just went up there for a walk last week and oddly it's still flowering a little bit because I tend to think of them as an early flower. So they look amazing. I would take a walk on Mount Davidson right now. And they also grow on San Bruno Mountain. So if you're certain, if you're absolutely certain that it's Vaccinium of Autumn, our Huckleberry, it's delicious and I love it. Thank you, Susan. One more YouTube question and I think this question comes up a lot for us is our most recommendations pet friendly. There is a great ASPCA website for that because some are and some are not. Let me, let's see, we do get that a lot. There is a toxic, ASPCA has got a list of toxic plants and that's been super useful to have. Here's the toxic plant list and we do get that a lot. For the iris, for instance, don't plant. It depends on whether or not your pet is going to chew on that. The iris is the only thing I recommended that I'm absolutely certain isn't going to do very well with pets. It won't kill them, it will just make them sick. One plant I don't recommend that we do have and it's in bloom now is the California Buckeye. It would be an ornamental plant. I do see the city planting it but it is entirely poisonous. The seeds are these beautiful balls that if you've got a dog that loves balls might put it in his mouth. Everything associated with that plant is poisonous. The seeds, the bark, the roots, the nectar, the pollen. It kills honeybees, honeybees are not our native bee. We've got 1,500 species of native bees in California. And they love it. And they're adapted to it and so are the butterflies but the honeybees are not. And so it is the one native plant that I rarely recommend. There's another Manzanita question here too. Someone has established Manzanita for one to two years and wants to know if they should give it any summer water. I would say probably not. I would say Manzanitas are used to that six-month dry period and she has already established it. So I would- It has been through two summers of water. Otherwise just maybe give it a few gallons every month in the summer, no more than that. But I would withhold water after two years. Yeah. I have five in my yard and that's what I do. Yeah, I don't, mine's established so it never gets any water anymore. Yeah, same here. Yeah. Do we have more questions? I think we're winding up on my side on YouTube but definitely again, a number one question that always comes up is can this be viewed again? And absolutely, we have a now nice little library archive of Susan and Bob and the California Native Plant Society events on the San Francisco Public Libraries YouTube channel. And I'm about to throw that in the chat box and I did just put it in the YouTube. And this one will go up. We will edit a little bit tomorrow and it'll be up because yes, the resources are deep. And Susan has also, we have a link list, a resource list, which is big and intense and we're gonna get it a little bit updated here very shortly, so I'll be there as well. So Stephanie's got one more really great, has got a great question. This information is overwhelming for a beginning gardener. Are there native plant landscapers? Yes, yes there are and they're wonderful. We've worked with Alexander Harper, Kat Chang. All right, I'm going to forget other people's names. Just Ziya Clark, and now nature in the city is offering a garden service as well. So I would contact nature in the city and see if they can help you garden. I do wanna make sure you understand a lot of landscape designers can give you a good native landscape if that's what you ask for. If you tell them, this is what I want, here are the plant lists, pick out of that, they'll be fine. It's what I did with my garden. I'm an engineer, I'm not a good designer, I got help. And it was with someone who had only used a few different kinds of native plants in the landscape, Linda Rood, and she was wonderful. She gave me an absolutely gorgeous all native landscape because that's what I asked for and I gave her plant lists. Yeah, by the book, California Native Plants for the Garden is a really great book to start on. It has all the different types of habitats you can possibly imagine with plant lists for each one. The thing that's different for us versus what maybe a professional landscaper would offer is we try to go more local so we can help sustain the local insects and birds. And they would probably think more widely. They might plant that desert willow. They might think of that as a Californian native species, which it is, but it's not a local species and we're concentrating more locally. So most of the plants she saw in Susan's presentation are all stuff that grows here. Yeah, and so we do have a list of plants on our, so all of these plant lists are on our website. So if you want to have, if you're a new gardener and you want help from a landscaper and you're like, here's the edible plant list. We've got that edible plant list. If you give that to really any landscape designer, they should be able to help you. We do have native ones, native landscape designers who are committed to helping us. But if the person you end up talking to hasn't done much with natives before, they can still work with a plant list and work with your priorities and be careful about making sure that you've got the privacy that you need, which is why you've got hedges and vines, that you've got the ground covers that you need. I'm very, I believe that landscape designers can start using native plants. Any other questions that we get to everything? There is a question about big leaf maple and whether it grows naturally in San Francisco and where can someone go see it? Oh yes, Green Street steps. It is between Taylor and kind of Jones, very steep, big leaf maple, absolutely gorgeous. Come see it in October when it's in color, going through color right now, it's fruiting. So if it's a Department of Public Works space, not a Rec and Park space, and so there's a neighborhood group, the Russian Hill Neighbors Parks Committee takes care of that. So if you happened to take some of the big leaf maple seeds off of it to go grow your own, you're welcome to do that. It's Department of Public Works, they don't care. However, it is mostly a creek side kind of plant and it will like a fair amount of water. And as far as growing naturally in San Francisco, we had a lot more creeks exposed in the past and now there aren't, so they're harder to find. So you'd have to go to like Crystal Springs or something close by to see how it looks in nature, but here it may have grown here naturally. We think it's a possibility because of the old creeks that were buried, but we don't know it, but that one that Susan is enthusiastic about is a really good example to look at. Yeah, and Ellen, you're asking about some sources for purchasing native plants. We have a variety of native plant nurseries in the Bay Area. And so if you look for a specific plant on Calscape, they'll have the list associated with that. There's, they're all good. And that's the nice thing about the native plant nurseries they're all pretty wonderful. Okay. Oh, and someone's mentioning there's a nice coast silk tassel growing at Rainbow Grocery Store. Yes, there is. I spend way too much time out there staring at it because I can't grow coast silk tassel. I'm not on sandy soil and I'm not near the ocean. It's just beautiful. Okay, any other questions? I think we have maybe come to a thank you and lots of love as usual. YouTube, thanks you. And just a reminder, yes, you will be able to see this again. And if you haven't seen any of our YouTube programming, we have a lot in the last year and a half. And you can definitely check that out on our YouTube channel. And I'm gonna pop that into the chat box. One more time. All of CNPS, your braguena is on our YouTube channel. And Bob, Susan, thank you so much. And library attendees, we love you too. Thank you for sticking it out and getting all of your questions answered. We totally appreciate Susan and Bob. And I think we need to do like a foodie gardening event. I wanna do that in person so badly. Thank you. All right, bye friends. Have a wonderful day and we'll see you soon. Sign up for those gardening programs for summer.