 Hello everybody, it's a very very special day. Why it's Friday, May 28th Not normally you wouldn't think it'd be anything that special. I mean, it's the beginning of Memorial Day weekend here in the US But that's right. It's the launch day for the game that uncle Adam and I made together Rain and Hell couldn't be more excited. I've got Adam here. How you doing, buddy? Not too bad. Not too bad. I am trying to bring up the chat so I can keep an eye on it Yeah, I saw there's a lot of people already Chatting out there. Happy to see it We're gonna we're gonna basically this is a little Q&A We're gonna tell you a little about right in the book why we wanted to do this sort of where this came about We'll answer your questions. This is just gonna be a live discussion. I have no idea how long this will go on Just so we're clear the game is out it is available now We this is not like a Kickstarter thing or anything like that We wrote the game you can buy the game the game is done everything you need to play the game right now today you can get today and I'll just answer the very basic questions right up front fun fast-paced brutal miniature Zagnostic skirmish war game 64 page book available in PDF alone for 10 bucks or PDF and the book for 15 bucks Link will be in the description that you can go You can go. Sorry. I'm gonna hit my mic that you can go check it out To the website the website has the links to buy it also has Adam's video His introduction video it'll be where we're gonna put up the little sample play video when that goes out this weekend I'll link Doug's review video, which was fantastic. He really deep dived it all that will be down in the description So you can go check out all that supplementary stuff Okay, there we go Precursors out of the way, right? Mm-hmm. All right So Adam we've got We we've got a lot of We've got a lot of questions probably already rolling in I've got answers. I hope I I hope so, too But but but but okay. I want to start out actually with just real quick I want to tell everybody the story of how we got to this point Mm-hmm because So this was maybe What was it like a year and a half ago when we were over like a long time ago, I was over at Sam's Right. Yeah, you came to visit us. Was that when you were here in February? No, because it was like last year This is okay So that was 20 this is 2019 September 2019 is when I you and I and Sam did a stream on Sam's twitch channel from his house and I remember saying to you I've got an idea for a miniatures game Would you be interested potentially and and then yes is what you had said? Yeah, and so you just kind of threw the idea at me, you know demons it's you know fighting in hell seems like a good setting you had to get some really cool ideas and I was like, yeah, okay And I let it bounce around for a while and then yes later than the next year when I came back Then in February you came back and we was just before the pandemic and you and I and Sam We filmed you and I filmed an interview at my studio If you've ever watched that video Sam is in the background. Love that video. I love how few people caught Sam back there with a giant axe It's great He's got he's holding this big foam corn axe that I've and then he's got like a hat pulled over his face And he didn't move for like 20 minutes as we did this entire interview. It's not Except for the very end he like moved a little bit And so anyway, anyways, so yeah, so we did that and then during dinner We talked about it a little bit more. Yeah, and then not much really went on until October middle of the pandemic or early part of the pandemic depends on how things are gonna go Yeah, you and I had like a conversation or two We kind of bounced around some basic ideas and then we said, all right, are we gonna do this? Yeah I was like, yeah, okay, so then we sat down and and Got to the got to the business the dirty business of writing, you know just starting to Started from like a set of guiding principles This is what we want the game to be about what we want it to be like and then just started building it out from there Yeah, yeah, it's it's been a journey Yeah, oh, yeah, and it's been a while since I had done any kind of like layout and publishing stuff Like I do I mean that I'm a graphic designer. That's my kind of my thing But it had been some time since I had done that kind of stuff So Getting kind of back in the saddle and in design, you know the software Adobe in design and stuff like that And and working with the people that we worked with for art and things like that. That was a lot of fun I really enjoyed that part Yeah, and this isn't so so everybody knows I want to just say something real quick I want to publicly thank Adam in a big way and here's here's why so this is the seventh game. I've written I think and And I like writing games I think I'm pretty good at writing rules at this point. I've been doing it for about 20 years and but the but I have zero skill with layout or in design or Understanding what makes a photo look good as you can tell if you've ever seen a picture of my miniatures or or any of these things like all the layout design graphical elements presentation everything and Adam Is so talented at all this and by the way that's not for me to say like oh I wrote all the rules and Adam had nothing to do with that that is far from the truth and not at all the case Like I might have done maybe more of the physical typing But this was an extremely collaborative thing and then when it came time to do all those parts That I normally hate and have to go like hire other people to do and it was like no I'm a wizard at this and I was like this is the greatest partnership ever I'll write a million games with you. Yeah, yeah No, it it it turned out real well too because I I I had these ideas, but I'm just not necessarily a math brain. I'm not a uh, an analytical or logic brain like there's that meme that goes around You see sometimes like my friends playing strategy games And there's that image of that woman and you see all the math floating in front of her And then it's like me playing strategy games and it's the Joker from the dark night movie when he's dressed up like an Man with a plan. Exactly. Yeah, like that's generally how I kind of play and and also try to come up with rules So it doesn't work so hot. So yeah, no, this was this did work out real well All right, let's let me do some initial shout outs and questions here Andrew Fairbanks, obvious first question. Are there angels? No, it's completely set in hell Although we've already sketched around some additional ideas obviously for future games or thoughts like that And you know that there were a couple pitches that I had that might have included angels. So sure Uh, there you go. Uh, let's see, uh I have a lot of people saying, you know, congratulations all that. Thank you very much We're really really excited about this and I will say that it's like in the play testing I watched so many people play it pick it up so fast and then have a lot of fun And that was that's that is like the best moments of doing this When you actually watch people play the game and have a good time Uh, let's see. So how big can a demon get um as big as you want? I guess is the answer I could go get my giant demon statue. That might be a little too big but like in the Like in the rules that the devouts can go on up to a 60 millimeter base But again, all these numbers are suggestions We say a next to each one of these suggested base sizes So if you want to go bigger, you can go bigger the thing that limits you to some degree is Very frequently the deployment zone Like in a lot of the scenarios the deployment zones look about six by six So if you've got a bunch of bigger bases, they're not going to fit in there But then again, you could just make the deployment zones bigger if you want to I mean again It's that's the great thing about tabletop games if you're like, well, I'll just change this. It's fine Yeah, we tried to set up like a rectangular play space So the the design of the the scenario space was pretty intentional It's basically like a war cry or a kill team sized board since I know a lot of people have those It's also a pretty easy space to match out. It's a classic rectangle So it's the 22 by 30 But we do talk about how you could use like a three by three or anything like that You could just adjust all the measurements accordingly like if you boost up the size of the thing No issue. Just boost up the all the you can just like think of like when you stretch a picture On your computer, right? Like you you can do that and it's no problem. The game will still function just fine Uh, so yeah, uh, let's see Round bases someone's asking if it's round or square always round I just always prefer the look of round frankly, but yeah, that's fine Although I'll say we did do play testing actually with square bases I did do several rounds of play testing with squares Just to make sure it didn't like alter or affect anything in any negative way Nothing started on fire difference in the way it played. No, surprisingly, no explosions The there were no sudden no sudden implosions the universe didn't invert itself or anything like that Sounds like you got lucky. Yeah It's a close one. Exactly. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, I honestly squares or rounds as long as they're in that recommended sort of size range You're not gonna notice any difference in the play Uh, are there guns? No, no, there's actually Basically no ranged attacking whatsoever. We wanted it to be a very brutal melee Game like these are demons. They're they're super naturally powerful Tough immortal creatures. They've never felt the need to develop firearms, right? Like it wasn't they didn't need that science like Uh, it's sort of the game of thrones thing like if you have dragons it stunts technology technological advancement, right? You got dragons and we also kind of like we did not like it's not like you're like Oh, if my demon has a sword then I need stats for the sword But this demon just uses claws so I need stats for claws. It's just basically It's a little bit more abstract than that So if you find a model you like that has a sword that's still a hand-to-hand style weapon So it's still fine if it's an axe if it's a maul if it's just claws and whatever tentacles Whatever it is it as long as you like the way that that looks you can kind of go that way because the The game is a little bit more abstract than that We didn't want to get super super crazy crunchy and be like well, you know This type of sword has a stat like this and this type as you know, maybe down the road in a different game We might do something like that but for basically this game we wanted it to be more about the uh the progression across the um The campaign, you know system as you kind of play forward and not so much about like oh now I got this new weapon as a relic now. I have to rebuild my model and repaint it And then we went on to go that direction, right Uh, what is the average length of a game? Uh, sure. So about 45 minutes probably most of the play test games I ran were usually about 30 to 45 minutes. So it just depends on, you know, like um Depends on obviously luck can have some influence in there or how people play right if you have some players are are much more like They're very thoughtful sort of or kg, you know But the game the game really kind of I think benefits the uh the the attacker a little bit more obviously just even in the stats It makes more sense, but yeah, yeah Uh dance has said, uh, why where's the pre-order selling out immediately by scalpers? Sorry We you can we we just our method is you will will will sell as much as you want to buy there you go Right. Yeah. Yeah Sean question. Are you guys going to add lists linking to your favorite recommended miniatures for units in the book? So one of the things we do want to do is shout out. So this was a question I got on the youtube channel as well and uh, we'll we will do this We'll shout out like where all the miniatures that we used in the game came from So we'll make sure that's uh somewhere like on the site or posted in socials and stuff Majority of them are 3d printed actually, but there are some that are not so yeah And and we do also want like we're we already I've I've been in talks a little bit with um Some different companies about maybe making some sort of special or like a coupon code or this that any other thing So yeah, that that's kind of been going on as well in the behind the scenes But we couldn't it's one of those situations where you it's very difficult Especially for the two of us with day jobs and stuff like that to launch like Everything all at once so this was yeah, you know, so but but yeah, we that is coming We were definitely going to do that but definitely I mean like the artwork on the inside of the book Uh artists empire you definitely want to go check out artists empire on youtube or artist empire dot com Those photos those are photos not that not illustrations It's a photo of a miniature that either vince or I painted and then we took photos of them and then sent them over and then scott there just digitally Amazed amazes. Yeah, and shut up scott who who killed it. Yeah pictures are amazing the first time adam showed me some of them It blew my it blew my mind. I think it's yeah Yeah, that's how I want all miniature book art to be like that's that's my guide. He's uh, the man Worked out really really well. Yeah. I was really glad to I was glad we were really commissioned him to get that done It was it turned out great. Yeah Uh, hey dana see dana howl there. Uh, congratulations. Thank you dana. Hope you're doing well. Yeah. Yeah Uh, let's see uh terrier question for vince. Are you also getting a badger tattoo? Or are you leaving adam hanging? Uh, we'll probably have to be leaving adam hanging on that one. Maybe I'll get the logo. There you go. Well, that's what that's what I got No, no not that not the not the badger logo this logo. Oh, oh, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah Sure, but yeah, otherwise I got the see and I've had this for like a long time Like that's a logo from the previous uh game company that kind of used the same name I my good friend peter spahos and I had a company that started in like 92 Where we made games and it was called snarling badger games. So I still had the domain and everything I've had that domain for 25 years. Um, there you go So I figured like yeah, that's kind of what we decided when we decided we wanted to keep doing this That's why we came up with snarling badger studios. So there you are Marco Frisone in the chat. Hey, Marco. Hope you're doing well. He said he's an avid player of skirmish games Yes, amazing painter like if you guys aren't all Subbed up to Marco, uh, you should you should definitely go do that. I mean the man paints war bands It's incredible. He's like, oh, I painted this whole war band. It looks stunning It took me like three to four hours and he's just showing you exactly how he does it. So Just an amazing guy, uh, okay Let's see All right, trying to catch up with all the questions here. You guys are great Okay Boom boom boom Oh my gosh, the chat jumped on me. You know, you know how this is adam when the chat jumps. There we go So we answered the square or round bases and size we talked about that It's generally so just to answer that in a really blunt fashion Square around doesn't really matter We're talking about your minions being on 25 to 40 mil and then the biggest ones are your two special guys Who are on can be if you want on slightly larger bases That being said round is better Yeah, I mean I tend to like round bases better. Yeah, you you do you I'm adam and I are both round base Uh elitists there you go. Yes. Yeah, there you go Juan Hidalgo. Hey buddy another amazing miniature painter with an awesome channel. Hope you're doing well Let's see Uh, do do do Does the pdf book have color photos of example painted war bands? So the the pdf the Book itself is in black and white and that was an intentional choice. So I'll let adam actually talk about that while I scroll for questions Yeah, the the book is black and white for a couple of reasons. Number one is cost Having the I mean the cover is color. Well, I mean it's good color in it, you know Like there's color in the eyes there and this is technically color on the edge It's just kind of a more viscidia and then there's color on the back Um, but on the inside of the book we went with the black and white frankly because of cost like the book would have to cost A considerable amount more money to have like color pages on the inside and we kind of thought it would just make sense to do it this way and then To be perfectly honest with you the idea of then turning around making the pdf in color When the insides are in black and white and they'll just it's it was a situation There's no good way for us to make it so that we could do it originally in color And then just tell the printer to print it in black and white. They don't that doesn't work So um, so we stuck with that but it also kinds of I like the aesthetic of it a little bit better, too So there's that but um Yeah, we've um, you know I've thought about doing color and stuff like that But the the print on demand cost for color on the inside is considerably more and we wanted to try to make this as inexpensive as possible So yeah, ultimately it was important to us to have this game be accessible sort of above all else, right? Like, you know, I mean I like writing rules I like putting games out there, but neither Adam or I are trying to retire off of making this game That's not the point here, right like we both have day jobs as mentioned So this was a chance to really put something together that we thought would be really cool and fun and put it out there in the community And that doesn't work if we didn't have to charge 45 dollars for a rule book or something Right, I mean even the color wouldn't cost that much, but still it would have been considerably more And so we were just kind of like yeah, you know and and again Like I don't you know I'm a big fan of indie the whole indie mindset to some degree So like I like the idea of keeping it inexpensive and making it accessible The one of the big benefits to doing it Print on demand through this particular company is they have a facility both in the uk and in the us So if you order closer to the uk Like someone in my twitch chat earlier today said that they were able to get the book And it was basically the book and the shipping and it was a less than like 20 bucks american Whereas if it was going to be printed in the united states and then shipped over to the uk I can tell you from recent experience. It would have been a lot more than that So, uh, yeah, so that's a benefit But then the pdf is also successful to people who live, you know, let's say in asia or you know that kind of stuff and whatever I'm hoping that eventually the company that does the print on demand eventually gets a facility in asia That would be sweet. Yeah, but currently right now. That's that's where we're at Yeah, uh, is the morale check called satanic panic? No, but my gosh, what a missed opportunity You know, sometimes you just don't think of everything. Well, sure. I mean a there's not really so much in the way of You know morale checks and be like there's there's there's no satan in this game. You know what I mean That's the other thing is because I've had some people ask about like well What do you think about you know But it's like this is a different dimension and there's these creatures But they don't have anything to do with like the judeo christian ideal of all that so it's yeah It's just these creatures who keep Have been coming over to earth and trying to steal our souls and all that kind of stuff through guile and trickery And taking us back through like they can't just like pick us up and drag us back through the portal into hell They have to basically, you know, do you have to deal with yellow? Yes, that's exactly And eventually we figure that out as humans and um through some information That's in the book and then we stopped it and now the demons are basically stuck with no with no bosses No mom and dad everyone's you know, and they're stuck and so now that that's why all the fighting so there you go Uh, are the rules watertight completely unambiguous and with no room for interpretation? No, I mean like we try to do the best job we could and you can blame tom if you notice anything wrong As he was the developer, but no, I mean we really tried did try to do a good job I know there are a couple little errors in there that we caught you always catch stuff like that after we're unfortunately Yeah, um, I think for the most part we're pretty happy The chart on page 25 with the devout two of the devout are flipped Like one supposed to like the broker is supposed to be I think it's the yeah And that succubus is supposed to be the earthbound so those are flipped so we're gonna try to fix that but yeah Yeah, um, but other than that I mean like the rest of the information within that section and there are probably some other typos Some people mentioned there's some typos as well and we this has gone under a bunch of eyes But it never goes under enough. It seems so sure. Um, but yeah Uh, Derek says are you planning on any expansions? Uh, it's something we've talked about. It's not like I can say firmly. We'll ever do it at this time I mean, do I have ideas? Oh, sure. I think we both have ideas, but you know, we'll see I've had a lot of people ask about uh, even in the chat on twitch today that I just got done with A lot of people ask about solo play and a bunch of people in the comments as well And we've talked about I mean as it is right now Uh, one of the scenarios called the beast of the 10 scenarios can be played solo play Um, because it's one to four players that need solo play But we've Vince and I've talked a little bit about like trying to come up with like basically like a free pdf kind of bolt-on That says here's you know solo play just because it's a it's not a bad idea for a lot of people Who just don't have people to play with b pandemic, you know, so yeah, we would um, but as far as like sit like There's a lot of kind of people in the industry not so much in the industry It's more in the community They're like oh well if you sell a game and then don't ever make any expansions for it that game is dead and that's not Really the case, you know what I mean, right? Especially when a game that's supposed to be kind of story oriented You can buy a game and then just be like I get to play this for as long as I want to and that's cool Right if you're if you're talking about a competitive scene and the meta changing and this and that that's a different story But this is all self-contained You know like if you're like, you know, so it's everything you need is in the book And so there's not a great need for us to like expand if we want to expand we'll go down that road potentially but the other idea is that You know, we've been talking vince and I about trying to put out a game maybe once a year And if we do though won't be the same game It'll be different stuff and things like that because it's fun to do. So yeah Uh, philippe says how much terrain is suggested so it actually varies by scenario But you can always change it to fit your needs and your availability of terrain There's a terrain table in there. All the train is very clearly defined The average on the board is three to five pieces of terrain that are roughly like a four by four inch size And again, we're talking about 22 by 30 size So if you scale up a little bit bigger you can go more but yeah, it does depend on the scenario You're right So it's not a tremendous amount of terrain certainly like a couple pieces And you're good to go is basically the answer You can play in it because it's mostly a melee focused game Terrain is creating interesting like choke points in areas where you have to move and move around It's not doing things like blocking line of sight for shooting or stuff like that So if you're on a lighter board the game still plays just fine. Yeah. Yeah Uh, okay What scale uh, do the minis have to be? Well, so the answer is you could really use any like you can use multiple scales I mean it was certainly designed with kind of the traditional 28 to 32 millimeter scale in mind But I'm sure there's plenty of good 54 millimeter miniatures that as long as they were on like roughly the right base Would be perfectly fine The thing is is like big demons because they're demons. They can look like anything Exactly. They're not people they're demons So like I honestly a lot of the models that are in the photos in the book Are models that were printed by my friend matt From game four from the game four podcast. I'm trying to find a picture here It's not working. Uh, and so um So like I would basically just get some stls and then I'd be like, okay Can you scale these up or down a little bit here or there because You know, since we're not dealing with people We don't have like the whole concept of scale is that like basically roughly from the eyes to the bottom of the feet That should be roughly 28 millimeter and that's an average size human Well, these are you know as long as the base size is right They can be as tall or as short as you want honestly. So yeah, absolutely Uh, marco said I love the concept of the self-contained game that you can play forever That's the reason why I'm still playing mordheim after 20 years totally agreed Like that's a great example of a game like yeah, it's not like anybody's making that stuff anymore But there's a fan community who you know, you can go to but like I've played when I've played a mordheim Mordheim campaign in the past five years. Love that game So, yeah, I mean it's games don't have to die just because nothing's there They die because we don't want to play them anymore. That's it. Uh, let's see Does the game enable on-the-flight thinking and adaptation on the tabletop my perceived lack of that has been my trouble with other games I I really think so. So let me talk about this for a second because this is something that I tried to focus on in design Actually, I think that's exactly the major part of it Um, there's some obviously You know conception in how you initially put together your cabal you you do have to think through that and say, you know Do I have sort of the right mix of abilities because there are that's certainly a component of your overall strategy But what we saw time and time and time and time again in play testing was the combination of the activation system, which is very unique and something I'm very very very proud of Uh, combined with the nature of the scenarios meant that like you absolutely had to be adapting on the fly and how you activated Where you moved and what you did Really ended up determining the outcome of the game Uh, and there was I mean there was a one of the most fun games I had in play testing Was a game I played against john nenas and it came down to the two of us with two Demons each left Completely tying on everything in the scenario It was a complete draw and it came to the last role of the last round and it just Drew and we were both like that was the most amazing game ever because I mean we were just it was chess, right? it was oh, yeah, and And at the end we were like, okay, it was a draw But it felt great like yeah, the nobody won but nobody lost it was just like that was it stay on me We we folks push cards in we step away. Yeah, it was it was amazing. So yes I really think so we we kind of looked at a bunch of different type of activation systems out there and And I knew going into it like I knew what I didn't want and so But I also knew a little bit of what I wanted like I knew I didn't want it just to be like you go I go and that kind of stuff or whatever um And I've always liked like let's say bolt action or star breach where you reach into a bag of dice and you pull out a die And like now you get to go and then I get to go and whatever But I thought like, you know, I just I like the idea of maybe knowing a little better It's supposed to just reach it into a bag so that you can it's not just complete reaction Every single dice pole where you're just like well now we have to figure out what to do next It's a more of a we roll all these dice at the beginning one die for each of your Demons and one die for each of my demons d12 and then now we know the order But it doesn't match. It's not like oh, well, this is the die for this demon I just know I have an activation in the 11 spot and I have two in the 10 spot And then I don't have any more until the four spot So you kind of count down and that and you can see your opponents dice too So you're like, oh, they are going to be able to move twice in six Or activate twice in six and so now I you know, and so like there's that whole thing But it's changing every single turn which I think is really fun. It's really really cool. Yeah, I agree Uh, it really is one of the like I One of the things that happens when you write games is that So and it's the same thing with miniature painting, honestly There'll be this one little thing you're really proud of So for all of you who are watching if you've ever painted a miniature And you had like some little part of the miniature that you painted you're like Ooh, I nailed that right like that was the thing like I love how that backpack looks or that scroll or that sword or whatever Just like and and maybe other people who look at it don't even notice, but it's for you It's the same thing with writing games You get one little thing that you like an idea hits you and you're like, yeah, this is it and for me It was the activation system. Yeah, no, it's it's spectacular. I really really like it I think it's very unique and I think it's very interesting and I think that I don't know I could see other people kind of picking up on it You know what I mean and being like and you know I you could see that kind of just like you saw like the the bolt action thing You know, and I don't think the bolt action was the first guys to do that But you've seen other companies do things like that and I think that you could see other game systems Kind of looking at this kind of concept and because it's a release. It's a smart concept I think just think it makes a lot of sense. So, yeah So lots of questions about expansions. We already touched on that a little so obviously, you know The answer is we don't know we do we want to write more things in the future? Yes Oh, yeah, absolutely number one thing that I think we talked about is you know doing a pdf for solo players So we'll we'll see what that looks like based on time Somebody asked how does the terrain interact with the game? The answer is in In either a heavyweight or a lightweight depending on how you want it to work So all terrain has there are different types of terrain so things like ruins or magical shrines or stuff like that crags crags Yeah, and pools. Yes, and those have like basic terrain effects based on the nature of the thing how it's functional What is it right? Okay? It's a set of ruins. So you'd acts like this. It's like it's a physical wall It blocks movement and you know, what? Yeah, like the stuff that would just be the logical rules that would flow from it And then on top of it, there are sets of optional rules you can choose to allocate to the terrain When you set up the board and if you do so then those can have quite large effects where the terrain becomes very dangerous Can be very Can cause a lot of damage to your demons Especially if that's in areas where the objectives are so which is often how we would do it Since it's a skirmish game with a small amount of minis on relatively small bases You can just put the objectives on the train which makes it fun Especially if that train is potentially kicking up damage back at the demons So you're trying to hold the objective and your demon is dying and you're like, oh god. What's gonna happen? you know, so so the answer is in in Sort of a lot of different ways and as much as you want We tried to really make it so the terrain even if you were setting up A board that's mostly ruins or something like that every time it would still feel very different Because like under ruins you have the ability to take standard ruins bog standard ruins But then you also have haunted ruins and crumbling ruins and they both have different things going on And and it's the same with like shrines and swamps and stuff like that So yeah, it's I like that because if you just want to play a real quick game And i'm just going to teach you and we're just going to learn we can just use all the bog standard stuff But if you want to start making things a little bit more interesting, you can start to tweak things as well I see the new painter asked why d12's? The barbarian died. Did you feel that they're underutilized in gaming? The the d12 for the activation is just because we knew that the max size for the The cabals was 10. So it's a if we would have done 10 ciders It's just slightly more likely that you would have gotten more doubles Whereas with 12 it's slightly less likely that you get more doubles in theory So yeah, um, that's why we went with the 12 because of the 10 max cabal size in the the game Also, it's just a cool die. And it's a totally cool die. So I've been buying them on on amazon and stuff like that different colors It had positive mathematical recursions in the testing is the is the true answer I was gonna say that but this but the second answer is it's also a super cool look and die And I just like d12's sometimes both of those things can be true um Keith vip said I saw the book had brutal and heard both of you in your videos say the word brutal Is that just a descriptor or does is a mechanical thing? It's very much a real descriptor of a mechanical thing. Yeah. Yeah The game is tilted towards offense. In other words, demons are dangerous destructive creatures and to capture both the Thematic element of that right what what it is to be in hell a dangerous place offense needs to be tilted towards the winning side of the coin, right And so, you know when demons attack they tend to really shred the heck out of each other Now it might still depending on you know different matches different demons some are better at combat than others It's certainly not always like every demon that attacks another just explodes the thing It's not that at all But the the combat, you know, but if you have like a combat monster leader, you know If you have like the executioner from the devout from the judges who's been souped up And he rolls up on some basic demon. It's a bad day to be that dude, right? He's here to you have been tested and waited and judged and found wanting Right, so that that's what brutal means. I think it's basically It's a relatively simple system, but I think it's really elegant Let's say your combat's eight and your opponent's combat is I don't know something like five So you have higher than your opponent. You're attacking your opponent. Your your combat's eight. There's five So that means that you basically hit on two plus Right now if you two were equal both had combat six, then you would be hitting on three plus Now and then it's four plus if you're under now Normally those numbers are shifted a bit higher on the dive, but because it's very brutal Those numbers are shifted So basically if you've got a higher combat than somebody you only miss on once So and if you're let's say your combat's eight, you're throwing eight d6 And then you're looking for every one of those that's not a one and then that's a hit Your opponent on the other hand at a five for their combat They only save damage on sixes, right? So You know like and then they throw five dice and you know, so there you go So, you know, let's say maybe at the end of that somehow you lucked out as the as the defender and you only took three Or four damage. Well, you might only have seven life, you know Right. So that's yeah, it it's the things are going to croak quick. That's the idea. That's part of the brutal things It's not a uh, you know a war of attrition where you're just slowly fighting and hopefully, you know It's slap fight between the towel and the garg over on the corner of the board someplace It's a you know, it's stuff goes. So yeah Yep Dave says has someone asked if they will be showing a demo game Stay tuned to adam's channel this weekend adam's going to have a little demo of some of the basically a little Playthrough of a turn so you can see kind of the rules in action. I'll let you talk It's going to be a minute while I hunt kind of like an animated a little bit of a thing where you'll see here's some dice And here's the how many demon just so yeah, it's not going to be an actual like Bat rep. It's not even going to be on a tabletop. It's going to be more explaining kind of like what I just did About how the combat works how movement works, but it's not going to be filmed It's just going to be a little bit more animatedy kind of thing. So I'm working on that this weekend script is basically written Um, but yeah, we do hope to be able to do some battle reports soon ish I got to be honest I have to build and paint a little bit more to get actually two war bands that are actually Usable all the models that I've been building and painting For this have been basically for the artwork So I don't have like a full blown finished finished Not that looks nice, you know, I could proxy stuff like I've been doing But I don't have anything that I could like look nice on a bat rep So I've got to kind of finish that up on my end There you go Uh, horn span said it must be challenging to write a game Well being careful not to co-opt recognizable elements of existing rule sets I mean fortunately, we're both adam and I are fans of a lot of different games And so actually that gets easier when you just play when you've played like a wide swath of different games and skirmish games and stuff like that Because you tend to be inspired by a lot of things but drawing on nothing in particular and plus we're always Set by art by the guiding principles that we wrote like where we're not trying to co-opt anything But what we're asking the question what fits this game? Yeah. Yeah Uh, okay Awesome some people saying they just got the game right now. They're excited to try it out. That's awesome Michael Evans said can you answer a rules query today? Yeah, sure man. If you've got one. Yeah, that's fine John K asked you mentioned bloodletters it for your army. Do you envision them as lesser demons? Yeah, I would say so because just because the base size honestly because they're like i'm 32s So yeah, I mean you could if you like really tweaked out one You know bloodletter to make them look really cool. That could be your leader. Heck that could be your devout size matters not You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah, like uh, but uh, but yeah, so Generally, I'm gonna make a devout bigger if I can 50 maybe 60 I'm on twitch today. I was working on a new devout that I'm working on. He's not 60. So he's a big boy Uh, lead genera says what is the game mechanic i.e d6 2d6 deck of cards? So it uses d6's in various amounts Based on sort of what's going on with your your combat score And then d12s are your activation or you're basically how you set your initiative order. So there you go Uh, let's see All right, just reading through lots of conversation Uh So cal storm said maybe you've covered this already by sellers one scenario that is only for one player or any more plans for solo play So yeah, no, it's okay. We we did talk about that. Yes. We're thinking about putting together like a pdf for rules for for solo play It seems to be a lot of interest in it It's just something we didn't have and it would be a free download on the website We wouldn't it's not like a thing that we would charge likes an expansion It would just be like here's the free pdf and then, you know, you would you know It would obviously only work if you already had the book, but yeah, yep exactly Uh, let's see. Um, okay Uh, let's see Oh, somebody said they love the the the art feel of it. Yeah, we're very excited about like I said that was all Artist empire. Um, a lot of the the paintovers you see of like the miniatures. That's artist empires the art itself Why don't you talk about that the non paintover of the minis because you you chose a lot of that our stuff and worked with other folks So you want to talk about that? Yeah, um the cover was uh done by a person Who I had been following on twitch and um, they're not listed in the book. It says uh, what does it say here? Um cover art by an awesome anonymous person who was paid for their work and who we look forward to working with again Uh, when I when I asked them like how they wanted to be listed in the book They were like Well, you know, I could just you don't need to list me in the book and whatever and I was like I thought to myself I'm like, oh, that's kind of a bummer that I obviously they didn't maybe they didn't have a good time Working with I thought everything was good and then they were like, oh But you know really looking forward to working with you again on something So I it's whatever but that's fine. Um, but yeah great great artwork. I did the the shading But uh, otherwise. Yeah, they did the great, um the black and white line art and we worked back and forth on that And then the other stuff. It's not basically like artist empire stuff being the um You know like the the cool paint over digital stuff is either Um very old woodcuts like old old old out of you know, copyright woodcuts Because there's a lot of woodcuts of demons as it turns out. Yeah, sure So, you know, um, and then I would take those and then I would redraw over the top of them to kind of tweak them Even more and to me sometimes simplify them too because sometimes they're just a little too overwrought Um, and so there's some of that stuff in here as well like this one is not even I don't even see it That one's that's just a an illustration that I found online that I bought through a stock, you know art service and stuff like that and it's a wood cut of um Gargoyles, I think on Notre Dame or something like that So there's a lot of different things out there that if you are thinking about making your own book, you know Sometimes you tailor the the lore or the the story a little bit, you know Like if we would have made this I was I was talking about in the twitch chat earlier I'm like if we would have made it a game about robot squirrels fighting against each other. That's hard to make a Miniatures agnostic game about because it's hard to find Robot squirrels, you know, just but the demons are easy not only for the artwork But also for the miniatures and stuff like that like lots and lots of companies make Demons and so it's just it makes sense for miniatures agnostic games To try to tweak their story a little bit so that that helps the person who's buying it to be able to find actual models to be able to use Uh, Nate said vertical combat two inches Yeah, so your engagement range in this by the way is a half inch horizontally or two inches vertically That's what that's based on base to base base. Yes. Yeah, so if you've got a super tall guy He doesn't yeah, it's base to base Right. How did that work out with play testing and terrain heavy boards? Um, quite well It meant that like in if you on boards where you if you use really tall terrain Obviously people who can fly get more powerful. I mean, that's probably fairly obvious big benefit Uh, you know, like So the difference between an open field and you know in the middle of city fighting or whatever, right So the kind of obvious things happen Obviously normal figs can't climb so people can get up there It just meant that you had to think about Sort of where you put your objectives So like if you used a very terrain heavy board I didn't put objectives way up on top of something because that would mean that like the flyer Suddenly had this tremendous advantage in getting to them But if you put them on the ground floor Then all the flyer can really do is go stand or hide somewhere that's out of the way, right? So it's less sort of uh Beneficial to them actually winning the game, but they might be able to keep a piece alive Uh, Michael strange said question your play testing. What was your favorite? Oh hell. Yeah moment I think I talked about it already. That was the thing with with uh, Ninjahn where we came to like this this knockdown drag out five round everybody doing their best fight And it came to a total draw. It was fantastic. So There we go Ray Ray said what scale to the minis have to be so we mentioned that it's designed to sort of 28 to 32 mil in mind But again because demons are demons and can be effectively anything you could use 54 mil as long as they're on the right base size Let's see Let's see Is their magic um If you mean like can are there demons who cast spells or something like that The answer is no but there is it is a Magical world right because it's this dimension is magically infused So that's represented through the power of the souls that they collect When they kill one of the big like so the whole backstory of this is about the souls Right that the demons had were trying to get souls from earth And so they had to lure humans here and collect these souls And that is their currency their power their essence And literally like essences are just shards of souls pieces of souls of powerful individuals in the past that they can shove into themselves And then gain power with it basically integrate into their own being relics are Quote unquote like magical type things that have been imbued with soul essence or used to take so many souls that they sort of Gained, you know, uh an almost sentience or a presence on their own Um that kind of thing, but there's no like I cast fireball if that's what you're asking No Uh, yep, uh, Alexander said he found the typo on page 25. Yep the execution of the succubus just switched around. Yep We found it too sadly today Um, hey woe said how big is the table to play? So yeah, it's 22 by 30 is the default game size But we do talk about how you can use other sizes We we can update the pdf version pretty easily It takes a bit longer to p to to update the print version because what we have to update the print version So we have to send a new file And then they have to actually print a proof and mail it to us right and we have to look at it and say okay With the pdf version you can just be like here's the new version and then it just automatically So we'll we'll update that but yeah and to be clear It's once it's two switch names on a table the actual game information lists everything correctly So it's just yep. Yeah, it was just my bad on one of the tables. That's all good Uh, let's see Uh Ages that's just what about hex bases sure man. Yeah, it worked. You can do it. It's like be fine uh, okay uh Vince how long did you play test and did you and did you settle or did you Took it as far as you could without releasing. Okay. So I think the question that's being asked there is do I feel like we did enough play testing The answer is yes. I mean we took the amount of time that we thought was correct That's that's basically the answer to where I wasn't getting feedback Or needing to make changes That's I mean that's I think bright. I mean adam. I think you and I both said we're going to release it when it's right That was kind of our our our thought. Yeah, because we weren't really looking for You know, like it wasn't obviously currently where we're at right now It's not like we were like we got to get it done time for gen con or we got to get a time for adaptive con It was like we're going to get it done when we get it done and um, I mean initially our kind of We we kicked on the idea that maybe it was going to be done late april But we you know extended things out and extended things out to some degree Um to to make sure that we got it done the way it needed to be done and and honestly, you know As all things we could have easily expanded and gone further. We could have gone and been like, oh, yeah Let's make it go out to you know But the downside to that the only thing that the only thing that we could have done more It wasn't so much even the game and I'm not saying the game is perfect But like if we would have had more time we just would have spent more time to like Get like a gameplay video ready to go. You know on launch weekend, which is more important than I had thought But that's what we'll definitely do in the future Um, but you know in the website like it's it's it's pretty good But there's little things here and there that I was still tweaking last night until about One in the morning, but it's one of those situations where it's uh In software because I kind of work in software. It's it's what's called the mvp It's the most it's the most viable product So is it viable like these are the these are the things like you have all these different ideas And then you have to get to a point where you're like if we do all of those we'll never launch So we're gonna have to figure out which parts we can still launch with and so yeah, that's that's kind of how it's uh It worked out so far. Yep Uh Eduardo says could I use some iron jaws miniatures for this game? Yeah, sure man I'm quite like again What are the things we want to do here and why it's why we both really love miniatures agnostic games Is because we want to unleash your creativity like what does a demon mean to you? Could a demon look like some armored orcs? Yeah, yeah, sure. That seems pretty crazy to me Like I'm sure some somewhere some people would think that absolutely looks like a demon If that guy came screaming out of the darkness at me I think the word demon would feel appropriate and different cultures look at demons different ways Like here in the west, you know, we're usually thinking red and pointy tails and horns And but you go to like, you know asia the concept of demons is very different And and so yeah that that that gives you the ability to do, you know It gives you the ability obviously you can always play with whatever you want You could be like this this, you know, coke zero can is my devout great. That's fine But when you want to start to get creative and have a good time with the the modeling and the painting to build your cabal You're not just like well demons are pointy and red And you know, you can do kind of whatever you want and go down that road That maybe do some research and check out what they think demons look like in india or in, you know I don't know, wherever all kinds of different places. Yep Uh, our con says do we have options like range melee magic different types of each? So really this game is very melee focused so The the it's it's about melee combat and and we wanted to there's a the reason for that is not only because thematically Like I said, it's about the demons and this brutal up close Combat like that's that is certainly thematically there But at the same time by restricting our field of vision down to having it focused on this melee element The downside of that is that you do get this very tactical movement oriented game Right when you have to go over to the guy to punch the guy and put yourself in some amount of danger to do that The game becomes this much more fluid experience where how you're adapting who you're choosing to activate and what you're doing moment to moment in the game really matters a lot toward achieving, you know victory and so That was part of what we wanted to do was really really really narrow the focus It was one of our actual guiding principles that I think we we sat down originally It was like this should be a melee focused experience really that provides for that kind of back and forth gameplay Jason a asked What do you see as a weakness of the game or something that you don't think you think that won't be for everyone I think that for some folks the miniature diagnostic thing is a sticking point, you know, I think there are folks out there that are Um, which is fine. You know, they're just like I like to Know that when I play this game, this is the line of miniatures that I should use and that's that's fine Um, and I think that maybe with some folks the fact that there's not maybe the range element to it as much I think that some people might be off put a little bit by that because they're like, well I normally play a shooty army You know, they play tau in 40k or whatever that kind of stuff And so this doesn't really do that so I could see that being an issue, but that's more honestly if anything I think it's more um Flavor opinion i'm opinion like uh, what you like a little bit more than anything. So yeah, yep Yeah, I agree. That's I think that's yeah well said Uh mark scott. So I know that the game is miniatures agnostic But is there a good model line or model maker that you could recommend preferably not gw Uh for players on a budget Well, I mean I um like So mantic makes some abyssal stuff. That's very cool. And I think would work out well and mantic is is budget friendly Some of the models that I used in the game are from frostgrave The uh, they're the uh, I used them as armored demons But they are the frostgrave demons that are relatively new. I think they came out this year I don't know if you can kind of see those guys there But yeah, if you look at those there, um Those are also you get like 20 models for I don't know less than 30 bucks Maybe I think and they're multi-part so you can kind of build them however you want and do all kinds of cool stuff with them um We want to I I definitely want to do some callouts and some stuff like that I don't know if it's going to something we put on the website or whether it's going to be social posts or something Maybe a blog post on the website and then we'll link it to you know twitter and all those different places But I do want to like say here's a bunch of places Like if you don't have a 3d printer or don't have a friend with a 3d printer if you do 3d printing is also your friend in the situation Yeah, people like archvillain games and there's a lot of them like on my factory My mini factory is amazing because you can just type in demon then chow So, uh, yeah, that's really cool. But if you don't have access to that stuff There are still plenty of things out there that you can find and I'd like to make some callouts to that as well. So, yeah Uh Geculian says is there an option for the book to be a five format size? I don't think so. I think it's just a standard this this size Yeah, it's um, it is a it is a eight and a half by 11 is the size of the pdf So I don't know a five that well I've heard I know I know what you mean when you say a five. I just don't know what size a five is in My Perception, you know what I mean, like I know there's like a four paper a five paper. I don't know what those different things are unfortunately, um, so generally when you are printing a pdf if you want to go down that road to print it, uh, you can get, um there's usually some sort of scaling that can be done, but then if the Aspect ratio changes there may be some you know, like extra space on the sides or the top or something like that But yeah, I don't that it basically us having to reformat it to go down that road Especially since we were designing it to go to print in this fashion Like we started by making it look like this and then we took this and then had to tweak it to be the pdf But we didn't want to Have to redo everything just to make it fit into a pdf so the pdf is the same size But that's I guess the best answer I got on that. Yep Uh, Aegis Linesh would it be fitting to use night hot minis? Same as what I said to the last one Yeah, man, absolutely like weird spooky torture ghosts sounds like it fits fine to me, right? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah uh Let's see, uh Can I buy the pdf in softcover without making an account? No, I do think you have to because it we go through wargames vault You do have to have an account for them. I don't think they have a checkout as like a guest option or anything I don't think they do. No. Yeah, and and we work with them because Facilitating through them has worked out really really well Uh, you know, I mean they they take a percentage They take like a 30 percent kind of like, you know, your iTunes and your other but but um, you know, like the big benefit of doing it this way is then Like if you lose your laptop you download the the pdf and you're having a great time with it You lose your laptop falls into the ocean. I don't know whatever. Yeah Um, then you just log back in and you can download a copy again on your new laptop If if it was just us having to mail out all of these we looked at certain different ways to try to make it work Um through the hosting company that we're using for the website and all that kind of stuff And we found some workarounds that were not You know, like it was like like, okay If we take this piece of software and link it to Shopify and then link that to Squarespace and do this and this and this The reviews say that it works 60 of the time So I'm like, well, that's not exactly what we're looking for. So that's why we ended up going with these guys. But yeah, yeah Uh, Daniel says the perfect excuse for creature caster demons. That's another great shout out I use a lot of creature caster demons some of them show up in the artist empire paintovers As a matter of fact in the book artist empire himself's in the chat shout out to him. Absolutely great Uh, yeah, look like follow him on twitter. Um, I I'm gonna put his twitter down in the description of this afterward So you can go follow him too Let's see Andrew says can I create a warband whose goal is to take the souls of tenacious d? Yes, that would be the earthbound. They're trying to get back to earth So there you go that clearly that might be because they want to get back at tenacious d. I could see that someone mentioned in um In the twitch chat earlier today that I was doing when I was painting that they're like they're like there's got to be An stl out there somewhere of dave grohl dressed as satan from tenacious d movie and i'm like There should be if there's not there should be. Yeah, absolutely, right Michael Evans said how come you have to charge within one inch, but you can't actually hit them unless you're within a half an inch So we can allow for interesting situations where You're charging into multiple people and then kind of like actually attacking this guy But still actually engaging this other person over here Uh, just things like that it ended up being that having that little difference in there Actually make quite a difference Especially if you've got little tiny scrums going on of three or four people It lets you trap people basically into combat range in interesting ways and limit their choices of things Like could they charge and stuff like that? So just yeah, it it's a small rules thing, but it ended up being pretty beneficial Uh, let's see. Well, you all have book signing booths at cons. No, but you know when cons come back and we're all there Uh, I'm perfectly happy to sign your book if you have it with you. So sure. Absolutely. Yeah So some people asked us asked earlier today about like most are you gonna have a booth at like, you know Jen con and I was like, oh god. No, that's a crazy expensive so much money Yeah, but then the other question was like, well, what about a booth at adepticon and we love adepticon both of us do But the trick is is that we love going to adepticon. We don't particularly love sitting at a booth at adepticon, right? So I don't know that We've we've chat a little bit about the possibility of at least having like some demo nights Maybe like because like in the evening they'll have like open gaming upstairs and stuff like that And maybe we can get a table where we can set up and have some some demo nights and hang out And have fun with people there. Um, and maybe if we give the The people who run adepticon some extra cash, maybe they'll they'll let us like sell Books up there, you know, because normally you can't sell books except in the vendor area But then there's also this hallway of booths that can also sell books But then you know, so maybe if we give them like booth money, but we're not going to be in a booth Then maybe they'll be cool with it. So that's like a ways away. So we're still thinking about that But yeah, I could see that kind of stuff happening Yeah, absolutely Yes, it'd be like if I mean, you know, because adepticon is kind of a vacation for both of us And so I'd be like going on vacation and then at the hotel you've got to work the front desk This game for younger players could be an obvious answer given the title My answer is yes. So so with a caveat, right? I mean, it's about demons, but there's nothing overtly Bloody or awful, you know, the stories aren't we didn't write the stories or these things in any visceral fashion It's not overtly gross or or caustic with the language and anything We it's certainly PG in all of the languages in there Now it is dealing with demons and that concept, right? But again, it's not demons in the Judeo-Christian sense It's an alternate dimension of these creatures who live in this place As long as the the children are kind of not really small or mature enough to like I think when I was a kid I thought monsters were kind of cool, right? Like I think yeah, they're cool and they're effectively just weird monsters And the really the rules should not be hard for them to grasp like it's there's a lot of complexity And how you can play when you really understand what's going on but getting the rules going is easy. There's a very shallow Learning curve to it. So you just you get there real fast. Mm-hmm. Yeah absolutely I just saw a question I wanted to answer. Can you activate it? Can you activate a model more than once? I don't think there's any situation in which that happens Yeah, there's well, there's a couple there. Yeah, there's a couple times where some of the leaders Like so the schemer or people like that can have a special ability That will allow him to like basically eat somebody else's die And then he gets to sort of take something and and effectively kind of go again Yeah, because generally no, yeah generally no There's it does specifically stayed in there that like your activation die once you've activated them That's it. That's their time. It's it's a one-to-one thing Yeah, do base sizes matter? I mean, we've given some suggested base sizes But there's no like, oh, you have to use this or you have to use that like leaders It's best between 32 and 50 devout is between like 32 and 60 roughly and It's 25 to like 40 roughly for Minions, but again, if you get some millions that are on 50s and you want to use them It's you know, it's fine. It's uh, the only main issue kind of like I said before is that generally you have a Deployment zone that's six by six and you might not have enough room if the bases are kind of bigger But you can also just make your deployment zone a little bit bigger or just fudge it or whatever you and your friends You can figure it out, right? But there's no like if you do it the wrong way you need it disqualified That's not the kind of game it is. Yeah, and the answer is because so I again We play tested with different sized bases just to see how things would feel Actually taking like we some of the play tests I ran We had all small bases against all big bases just to see kind of what that felt like Because I really wanted to put this through the paces and the the answer is there are like advantages and disadvantages to Going up in base size, you know on the advantage side Obviously, you're you have a bigger presence on the board You can kind of you know hit you can get to a place where I can hit both guy over here and guy over here I'm in a half. I mean I can be within a half inch of more Models, right? Which is an advantage, but disadvantage there are more models within a half inch of me Like it's much harder to block a big mini off to keep them safe right to to sort of protect them or shield them so it really does go both ways and You know in the end if you pretty much stick in the recommended base sizes That's going to be kind of your optimal experience, but it's not like the thing goes off the rails If you have a few that are a little bigger or something Uh, let's see Oh, uh, alaric saying he loved the font. Yeah, that's all adam adam found this. He's using this that's again It's great at this. It was beautiful. He showed me about the first time it was like. Yes. This is fantastic Yeah, like like honestly in the kind of in the earlier part of development when when vince was like chewing on rules and kind of We were we were to iterate because we would meet once a week and chat back and forth and you know Texts and stuff like that, but um, he would be kind of like chewing on Different sections and sort of working and then you know that kind of stuff I was then going through and trying to figure out. Okay. What's the page going to look like like how are the Like we did this kind of thing where you've got a wide column There's basically one column per page But then there's the mini sidebar that it has just little things that point out like oh, hey Here's the thing you might want to know or here's a little piece of fluff or like that kind of stuff And figuring out what font sizes it was a lot of me like Working on the computer and then printing it and then walking up two flights of stairs upstairs to the And then getting it off the printer and looking at it going well, that's too big or whatever You know and so what it looks like on the screen is not necessarily what's going to look like a print And you have to take that into consideration So, um, yeah, there was a lot of going back and forth and testing fonts and this and that and just figuring things out Um, like the the logo itself the actual rain and hell logo like you can see on the website there that was um A modified version of a font from a font foundry that I really like called remedy 667 and um I mean the the font underneath it is a demonic skirmish combat That is a font that I've been sitting on for literally probably 15 to 20 years called, uh Democratica and I just like trying to find the right place to use it and finally like this is so yeah I'm kind of a font nerd most of my friends will call Will all of my friends will be like what's this font and then I'll look at it and they're like, oh You don't know do you I'll be like no I do it's frizz quadrata or whatever You know that kind of thing so yeah, but yeah, so that's uh I I wanted to make it because a lot of indie stuff has a tendency to kind of look a little indie I wanted to make this look a little nicer than indie was the hope sure Uh rule of cool said I assume it was Kathy that was the voice of reason in your announcement video saying there's got to be a better way Yes, it was I had her come in and record that I I had her I called her downstairs I had her do like five or six takes of each line And then she went upstairs and then I realized that it didn't capture the audio properly and made her come down again And I was like welcome to making videos This is what it's like where you do a whole bunch of work and then realize it didn't come out right You gotta do it all again. Yep Uh, does the game have lore attached? Yes. So there is a story that sets this all up As to what hell is it's not a tremendous amount of lore in there We left a lot, you know pretty open for you to interpret, but at the same time the driving thrust of this Game is the lore. We haven't talked about this quite yet in much of the discussion But you're not just playing random demons who are killing each other in hell for no reason The a big part of what I wanted to focus on and what we both thought was important was to give you the why Right To me the why is a huge amount that matters I have to know why my people are fighting in a game not just because it's cool to fight And so there are philosophies in the game basically because hell is in ruin and the directorate has been destroyed There's lots of different Beliefs about how hell should be Changed or run or rebuilt or not, right? And each of those philosophies means a lot because you know demons sort of self actualize in the way that like the more They believe a thing the more that thing is and so The the nature of it is that everything you do is driven by the lore in effect and by the story that you're telling because you're uh, you know because you're uh An earthbound and you're trying to get back to earth and that's what's motivating you You're like hell is borked. We got to get out of here Let's let's collect enough souls to jump start that portal and and just leave Right. Just take it back to the humans who came here and messed everything up for us. Right. Exactly You know, so that there's that's part really drives a lot of like what does your leader do that's special and different? What's the special ability your whole warband has and you know that that Influences a lot of what's going on. So yeah, like and the brokers Don't really care about what's going on as long as they have plenty of Basically for them currency, which is souls. Yeah, you know, we don't need to fight We can pay somebody else a bunch of souls to fight for us or we don't need like we don't need there to be Anything nice or we need that, you know, like all we need is this money, you know So they've got a very specific kind of mindset Which sometimes you can see, you know Mimicked in the real world and uh, you know, and so there's a lot of like I don't want to say there's a lot of commentary there But there's a little bit of commentary in that Yeah, sure. It's also a little like in mad max when you've got like the three leaders of the three towns like gas town Waterplace in bulletville or whatever. I don't remember the name, right? But they're they're these lords of commerce that just have the the the scarce resources in abundance, right? Yeah Right on. Okay, uh, let's see Uh, okay, so we got the we answered that question already Model that was on the that's on the website there. You can see on the page That one is a 3d print from I believe it's a sculptor called lord of the prints And I got the stl file off of my manufacturing and then my good friend matt from the game for podcast gaming matter m a t t r he printed it for me and then Yeah, and then I painted it and took photos of it And then artist empire did the digital paint over and stuff like that and that's the only one we don't have Initially it was like I think they should all be in black and white and he did this one in black and white And then all the rest of them he didn't color and then gave it to me in photoshop with like a layer on top That was the black and white version He's like in case you want the color ones and and he was right the color ones looked nice Like on the cover and stuff on the back cover and stuff like that and they are working on the website But you know, but but this one still is really I think pretty dope. So yeah So I just want to answer something here So francesco said I was thinking it would be easier to have d12s in two colors And then create like an initiative line after rolling a dice to make it easier to see the activation order Sure, you certainly could you could put them together and like you pull your red out We did I flipped over here on the page to the play sheet. So on the website there is you can did uh, you can Download the cabal sheet where you can kind of outline everything and show it all, you know, like here you go So you should be in the pdf version But if you get the book version, this is not in the book You have to just download this because we couldn't figure out a good way to make it Where you could photocopy the book without squishing your book, right exactly So but you can download this for free. This is off the website, which is what I'm on here That's why I just clicked over to and you can see how there's a place like on your sheet to actually place the the dice But yes, there's no reason you couldn't do what you're describing as well to kind of visually represent the back and forth order uh, let's see How many players does it support more than two? Yep, you can have up to four players many of the scenarios are Can go up to four players about half of them at least I don't remember the exact number I can look real quick. We do list that in the book It actually says specifically at the beginning of the scenario section exactly how many players Can play in each scenario. So there are one two three four five six seven Out of the 12 scenarios that can have up to four players. So there you go I thought there was 10 scenarios or 10. Yes, but there's 12 options on the table Sorry, seven out of this you're right seven out of the 10 scenarios have can support up to four players Three are two only so there you go and the beast can be played single player or up to four players. So that's also cool There you go Uh, will you be to do uh, oh, yeah Yeah, chad roberts that are we going to update to correct those minor errors? We saw it. Yes, like we'll fix the pdf Uh, any thoughts about other people building hacks or expansion based on your work? I'll uh, the Like do in other words I think what he's asking is do we care if people make supplementary material Or put out their own fan made or community made stuff for it I mean we we kicked around the idea early on about whether we were going to go with um Creative commons. Is that what it's called? Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah And and we didn't go down that road like if you wanted to make a fan made thing and give it out for free Kind of like we're we're we're we're going to give out the the solo uh thing for free Then I mean that's totally fine. So yeah Yep, exactly like no if you if you make some some You know fan expansions just put out there and say hey, here's some cool extra rules I wrote for it. I don't I don't think either of us are gonna come after you in any way for that Right, so it's fine. I'm glad to see you're engaged in the game. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely Uh, let's see Ben says would be cool to make a group that are corrupted humans left behind after closing Portal looking at you nergal minis. That would be a cool idea Like that have become so demonic because they've just twisted over the The uh innumerable time they've been trapped there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that'd be very cool Okay, let's see Let's see Do you think rain and hell would make for a good gateway game adam? This is your specialty. You want to talk about that for a second? um I think that because the rules are um Elegantly designed and I'm gonna say that again. Uh, I think that it's not that hard to teach somebody It's not what I would think of as a gateway game and I'll explain why like gateway games very frequently A gateway game is something that's kind of between a board game and a miniatures game or sometimes between a rpg and a miniatures game and In my mind the idea is to hopefully get people who are maybe into board games to kind of start thinking more and more about miniatures Right. So you have to sort of meet in the middle Um, if you're familiar with uh warhammer underworld shadespire beast grave yada yada Those are like very much of a as a board gamer. You can look at that and go. Oh, okay. Yeah, I get that You know, like you get there's there's you know, that's a hex grid, which is a little weird But yeah, you get it and there's cards. I understand that building all that kind of stuff. Um So we don't really like the fact that it is just This I think is maybe not it's probably the part that's least a gateway game of it Because just you me given here's a book like there's no cards. There's no tokens There's no like little extra bits and spinners and all the other junk that you put into board into board games so, um, that was maybe unkind, uh, but You know what I mean, like I don't know that it's I think it's an easy game to teach one of my favorite games to teach people Who've never played miniatures before is a game called song of blades and heroes made by ganesha games And the reason that I teach it at conventions very frequently is because like people who've literally never played a miniature game Can can come up and I can teach them and they can be playing in about five minutes It's very simple But yet still a very elegant system about how you like activate, you know You roll either one two or three d6's and if you ever roll, you know, like if your success is like a three up Well, if you roll two failures in a single roll your turn is done and it goes on to your opponent But you can't roll two failures if you only roll one die But then if you're rolling so you're kind of pushing your luck, you know If you roll all three you might very possibly roll two failures in one turn and then your turn's done But if you only roll one you can't roll two mistakes, but you know all that kind of stuff So it's it's a very elegant system that you can teach very quickly. I think this system has got a lot of that as well Um, it's got I think more in-depth in the different types of demons and all that kind of stuff And there's like a bigger list of what's going on and there's slightly more in the realm of stats But I think it's still definitely it's not a super crazy crunchy game We didn't want to go down that route where you're like, well, let's see I've got six different charts. I have to look at before I can even create my first person for my warband You know, I mean, we didn't want to go down that road Yeah, exactly. Uh, so somebody just said can't talk about soul dice. Sure. I'll talk about soul dice Yeah, so soul dice are a a major mechanic of the game So let's let me let me dive into how that happens. Obviously the again the core of this story Is that the the demons of this dimension trade in souls And souls are the currency they're what powers everything there. They are what these demons are constituted of And so The way soul dice works is whenever You kill a demon and you're close to it. You have to be within a certain proximity a few inches You can you basically the the killing demon the one who did the slaying Grabs a little bit of the soul of that demon they slayed now the key thing to remember here is that demons are immortal These creatures never die Now eventually they can get so weak that they sort of become like sort of soul dice or something like that And that's what kind of has manifested in some of the haunted ruins and things that doesn't really happen in the course of your campaign um, but The each time they just lose a little bit of their soul, okay And that's represented by a soul die So when you slay a demon as long as you're within a certain edge You then get to grab a d6 and roll that and that becomes a soul die whatever face it shows You record it on your play sheet. So there is a space here for soul dice You slay the enemy demon you roll the die it rolls a four. Okay, great You set that die on your play sheet face up on the four Okay Now what that's going to mean is that going forward That gives you a die that you can use in a couple different ways You can either choose to replace Any roll that you or an opponent Has made with the after it's rolled with the face of the die. So in other words, let's say you roll the one Okay Great, you roll the one set it down on your play sheet face up Some demon comes screaming in and attacking your person Your demon has four life left They deal four damage, right? You go, oh wait one of those die you rolled. No, no, no That was actually a one. You only did three damage. I live, right? So that's kind of how that works The other thing you can do is you can use it to sort of speed boost your demons where they just sort of consume the Soul and they can add whatever the face value is of the die to their move for that move that they're making currently Like you're choosing to activate them. I will burn the soul die They will now move an additional number of inches equal to the face of the die Great for sort of late gameplays when you need to like I gotta reach it get that objective Okay, so let's kind of get over there But in a campaign There's a tension here like if you're playing this as a one-off then you kind of just use whatever soul die You've gotten it becomes sort of a back and forth mechanic if you're using it in a campaign, however Soul die are important because they then at the end of the game translate into your currency They are what you actually use to recruit additional demons to go on excursions to get, you know, sort of Fantastic essences and relics and stuff like that where you're trying to get cool things So that that uh, like there's a tension there of the more you the more of your resources you burn During the battle to win the less you then have afterward to you know, go get cool toys or whatever in between sessions and stuff Yeah, exactly. Yeah Yeah, and It's it's a cool. Yeah, I like the system a lot and and and the other thing that's also important to understand too Is that you don't have to kill? Opponents like if you need another soul die and you've got you you've got you know One of your demons in your own group is kind of just about on his way out You could kill them instead of letting your opponent do it and then you get the soul die They're demons. They they will kill their friends. It's fine, you know Yeah, and so so yeah, that's um, that was that was also a major thing that I kind of wanted in the game too Is I wanted the ability of the the demons to be able to be just like well, you know, you're you're gonna die there, bob But uh, it's not going to be the opponents that are going to do it. I'm going to take care of it Will not be in vain. Exactly. I actually had a game where this came up So here's what happened. I had a I needed to get to an objective But the objective was like Three inches outside my movement if I remember it was something like that. Okay, so like I couldn't get there So I said, okay, I'm gonna activate this demon and I had a wounded demon right next to him on my team There's nobody else around So I was like, all right, I'm gonna activate my demon and all running skirmish Which just means you can fight at any point in your move, right? So I was choosing to fight before I moved it all I killed My friendly demon and then I had to roll at least a three on the soul die Right. Got it and then was able to move the demon the full distance to get up and grab the objective so it was like Sorry, Bob got to kill you and then he used to like get trucking over there. So yeah, I mean it really Yes, you're you don't have to only attack your enemies. They're demons. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, and in fact, there's a The lord of the pit, which is the devout demon For one of the philosophies, right? He Yes for the lords of hell He actually his special ability is about him just like going sorry, Bob And just you know killing one of his his friends outright and then healing himself up because he's way more important as the lord of the pit Right, exactly. Yeah Okay, let's see Brian has said I really love the forge world demon brutes, but I have no reason to get them Maybe I do have reason now those are super cool things That was a shame that they had no crossover use outside of like, I guess whore's hair is here or whatever they're made for I don't know Uh, let's see Uh, okay Some more calls out for solo play stuff, which I understand Uh, absolutely. Some people saying, you know, do base sizes matter? We kind of talked about that a little not really there's a range And uh, you know, as long as you're within that range, you'll you'll you'll be good But again, they're suggested. So yeah, yep, exactly. It's all suggested stuff Oh my gosh, we have so many questions. We talked too much at them. That's the problem It's I'm like so far behind short first answers is what we got to do. Absolutely. Okay Uh, hey ventz. We see that adam used his real name and not his youtube pseudonym on the rule book. Why didn't you I I did it's my name What do you think my real name is? Uh Okay, uh, yes, exactly. Well, was this tested at ventz econ? Yes, it was Absolutely, we did a lot of that was there was I it's funny because they you know, uh Scott and john made their video recounting ventz econ and I was like you have to leave We played a lot of games, by the way I was like, you have to leave all of that out. Like you cannot talk about that stuff, right? Yeah, yeah So there you go. Uh, okay Uh, is it exclusively melee combat? Yes, we talked about that and why uh, let's see Okay. Uh, oh Nicholas said normally I've been low not to go with minis from a big game company But now I'm searching up something cool for this. Yeah, I think it's because it's only like 10 minis It gives you a chance if there's a smaller company something like that you want to explore Right. I mean adam, this is something you live you know, you're all about right Get your chance to get a couple cool minis for something without a whole yeah, and and even like Again, I like one of the reasons I kind of wanted to do this as well Is because there are certain models that like even from big companies like I've always thought bloodletters were super cool But I've never been interested in running them in 40k ages sigmar War cry kill team. I've just never I don't know why I've just never been interested in running them in any of those systems But I think the models are so interesting. So they would be perfect minions probably either like, um Oh, they could be spined demons You know, like that's the thing is you go through the rules here, you know And you have the different types of demons and you can certainly tweak obviously like this is again Not hard and fast. These are suggestions, but I can take a look at the lesser demons for something like that And um, just yeah like slaughter fiend. What does that represent to you exactly slaughter fiends? They could be Spined spines demon. I could see them because they got a lot of horns and stuff like that Like now would they be a tentacle beast? Maybe not, you know But yeah, so it's it's a situation where like it allows you not only to use a bunch of interesting models Or stls or kit bash of stuff, but it could even also sometimes be like I always wanted to paint one of these from I don't know GW mantic, you know warlord some bigger company, but I've never had a reason to and now I do so Yep, uh, will see says anything cool with range terrain activations game mechanic that stands out So I think we've talked about a lot of them. I certainly think the activation system is is really cool And what allows you to do there's actually a blog post over here on the website where I talk about it And you kind of see it in action and what I was aiming to achieve Terrain is really fun Because it can't have huge impacts in your game We had a lot of games where you were using the optional terrain rules that cause damage and boy Does that make the game like really exciting intense when you're rolling to see if your demon dies on terrain or holds the objective right Joe roger says lesser d uh for the question on warband construction lesser demons only and the leader is free Is the devout free to yes if you look in the devout section It's not listed there because you're you're the leader you get to kind of build from scratch The devout is just an automatic thing that joins up to your warband because you're this type But it does depending on the philosophy you pick you automatically get one of those um devout. Yeah, yep Uh, robert. Was there any plans to have or designs to have like humans in there or humans laser like that? Not really We wanted this to be demons because it's cool to just be demons right now. I mean have I thought about Uh, you know a potential future expansion that has you know humans or other beings and other dimensions involved Sure, we've thought about that. We'll see where the world goes. You know, yeah, yeah Uh, okay, uh, matthew said I want to do a japanese oni warband That's exactly the culture of different. What do you different cultures see as demons? That would be amazing Like, you know, that's sort of uh, kind of ogre looking type of uh figs. I think would be so cool Uh, I think but didn't doesn't like weird do a bunch of oni. Don't they have some oni Yeah, honestly, there's a bunch of models from malifaux that I could easily see being demons I've got some that are like I probably am not going to end up using them for malifaux because the people that I used to play Malifaux with are don't play malifaux anymore. So I'm like, well, okay, cool new demons need there you go Brandon says scaven demons an option Buddy in games. I write scaven are always an option. There's nothing wrong with that Uh, there you go Uh, Sean said until I get some dedicated demons for rain. I'm going to use my possessed chaos space marines I mean that sounds awesome to me. Yeah, like yep armor demons slaughter fiends. That all sounds like dead on to me Uh, okay. In fact, we used um There was some testing I did when we were like one of the games I mentioned where we were using bigger bases Uh, I had some people using uh, blight kings as a standard right as some of their like, um, as some of their different demons So, yeah, yeah, it works just fine Uh, okay, let's see Uh I'm planning on using the nozzers diva as my leader got the total fallen angel vibes. That sounds awesome I love that David said very cool to do a live chat for the launch but I only need to know you guys made that to order Well, thank you. That's that's super awesome of you to say Absolutely Was there any thought of going the kickstarter route? Would there what would have been the upsides downsides? Um, my answer is no But adam, do you want to talk about that while I hunt for more questions? Yeah, no, I I honestly I made kind of a joke in the video that I did on To that went live this morning about like, you know, and I talked about the game and what it was Then I'm like, you know, and then vince and I are like super excited to bring it to kickstarter And then I was like, no, I'm kidding. It's done now The reason for that is I'm not anti kickstarter certainly by any meant stretch the imagination Um, I get annoyed sometimes when huge companies do a kickstarter when I don't think they need to um But whatever, uh, the the issue is is that to some degree I can't tell you how many times I've been like walked up to a booth at gen con And they're like, okay, let me tell you about this game and they're like tell you about the game And you're like, wow, that's super cool. How much and like, all right So we're going to be coming out in kickstarter in six months and then you're just like, come on man I like want it now like that's the you know, so it was a situation of we wanted to not make you wait You know, um, and also the only thing we could have really done on it with kickstarter is we could have I guess prepaid for the artwork because everything else we basically did all the heavy lifting like, you know And it gets print on demand So it's not like we wanted to like get a whole bunch of printed and then sit on them and then have to ship them out manually That's the whole point of working with print on demand companies. Um, I mean, we could have I guess done a lot of artwork Like a zillion pieces of artwork or something like that. Maybe um But it was a situation where this being our first game working together We wanted to keep it kind of um, I don't want to say simple But we wanted to keep the the workflow kind of simple and stuff like that The only other thing is if we did decide to maybe try to get some sculptors to work To make some stl's they're I don't know, but that's that The the whole idea of keeping it little in pretty indie and trying to keep it simple I think is really the important thing and that's why the Kickstarter thing didn't really come into mind I've I've also never done one. I know vince has done a couple I've never done one So I wouldn't even know which direction to go in at first with that stuff these days So it seemed simpler to just produce it and release it. Yeah, and my basic answer is I wanted to stay sane and Running a Kickstarter is one of the most exhausting and difficult things you will ever do in your entire life It's meant to be it's meant to allow Like it was created to allow small press and you know, you know smaller companies to succeed Because the nature of the big boys flooding in there and raising the bar so high on what a Kickstarter demands And what you have to gen for it and create like it's just insane the amount of of work that running a Kickstarter It's just my honest answer is unless you're trying to fund a big product Like if we were trying to make a mini line or something, it's just not Worth it. Now if you're trying to make a mini line, that's where I can still see going to Kickstarter That makes perfect sense to me because then you you know Like you need that funding because you have to do there's so much stuff You have to pay for with that to bring miniatures to market, right? But no, unfortunately, we're doing that Uh, softball question. What is one thing in game design? You were both sure had to be in the game um you got I uh I mean the the the activation was super important to me I really needed to have the activation be interesting to me because I will tell you right now like these days The reason that I don't generally play 40k anymore is because of the activation system. It just It you know, if you like it, I'm not telling you you're wrong I'm just like I don't like the whole we roll off at the beginning and then that's the way the rest of the game goes I I like The more kind of a little bit of randomness and the more I have to react and all that kind of stuff So yeah, that's at least for me that that that was a big deal as far as just like game design stuff. Yeah Excuse me. I took a drink and it went down the wrong pipe and now I'm dying. I apologize Oh my god, okay. I can I can vamp. I can keep No, it's fine Yeah, I agree with that completely the other thing I would say When it comes to that is the campaign Like from a from a design perspective, we both knew that this had to be campaign We wanted there to be you know, real growth of the Of the warband in between games because both Adam and I are huge fans of campaign styles It's just I think it's one of those things where it's like You're creating it. You're creating a story whether you're doing it, you know Intentionally, you're not when you're playing a campaign because things will change and you'll make decisions and you'll be like, okay Well, now this guy's gonna this and that and and that's really interesting Whereas one-off games are fine, especially for learning a thing But one-off games are very frequently like, okay Well, you won or I won and then that that's the end of that but having this kind of thing that goes on and then You know, it's very open-ended like for how far you're going to go on It's not like oh you play six games and then you're done, you know And we didn't we did that kind of consciously. We didn't say this is how long a campaign goes for You get to choose how long a campaign goes for you can have an end goal You can just be like until we get bored. I mean like whatever you want to do, you know, so so yeah, absolutely Okay, uh, what are your favorite philosophies in the game? I'll be honest with you I love all of them. I really do like we put a lot of thought into the philosophies and making sure that they had some kind of traction And this is a huge part of the discussion because the why matters a lot But if you make me pick one It would be the earthbound because I love the succubus and I love how the earthbound play so yeah Yeah, honestly, I said earthbound someone asked that same question to me and twitch earlier this morning And I said earthbound as well, and it's more of like I like I love the concept of like I think I did I'm 98% sure I said earthbound I like the the concept of um the kind of retribution And like we're gonna head back and uh and and get back at the at the humans, uh, you know At the for what they did, right, you know what I mean? So yeah, I like that a lot Uh harder question. How did you settle on seven to ten minis not five not 12, you know, why seven to ten? Uh because it just felt like the right number after a lot of testing it actually did scale around quite a bit Like we we tested with different values We knew that it was never going to be that big like I think we we Ten was kind of the outside Yeah, we like we you know, we had some conversation like would we want to go up to like 12 minis? We talked about that a little in the beginning and we both agreed it was just too many Like we wanted to keep this small Yeah, right and so we actually tweaked quite a bit at like well What's the exact starting size and how much you know? So that kind of thing there was a lot of discussion around that the initial kind of like design specs Actually, it was five to ten. Yeah And then we ended up kind of moving it up just slightly because we realized well When you think the leader and the devout if you're only choosing like three It doesn't feel like you're really building a cabal. Yeah, so seven just kind of felt right after after that Because that's basically five plus the leader and devout the leader and devout. So, yeah, yep Uh, just tuned in did they say where the mini on the screen is from? Yes I think you did mention where you you got that guy from. Yeah, that's from uh, um, it is a Sculptor called lord of the prince and I got it off of Many my mini factory comm I forget his name specifically on the name of the model But if you look up lord of the prince on my mini factory, you should be able to find it Or there's I'm assuming they probably also have a patreon probably Uh, yes, somebody said where's the I didn't see the question that started it But it was somebody saying like, uh, oh, I guess it was yeah on the activation die Yeah, you put the activation die next to the person to show that they're activated You can also just use little chips or markers or anything like sure we do that too Yeah, like I the idea of like having this thing that the dice is also a token I kind of wish and I've been looking to be perfectly honest I wish that they were smaller than sort of standard size d12's But there just seems to be the same size d12 everywhere every once in a great while You can find someone who makes a slightly smaller one But that would be nice too to just be able to set it next to the model But because there's not so many models on the table You don't have to worry about their space quite as much depending on how much Terrain and the size of your table and all that stuff But yeah, you can either just be like look once I've activated this guy I put the d12 that activated next to him so that I remind myself that this one's already activated Or you put down like a token or a chip or something if you walk into that road too Yep, uh, let's see, uh, maybe this was answered already any plans for campaign or scenario packs Or other kinds of expansions we've talked around it nothing for him yet But I mean, you know, it's the the I'm sure we'll we'll want to do some stuff Would you guys support fan made mods or content again? Yeah, as long as you're not charging for it if you're just throwing stuff out there Then I don't think we have any issue with it Of course if you if you in your own game make some cool scenarios or something and throw those out in the community And be like hey, here's some cool scenarios. I made I find Cool that sounds awesome to me Vince you might want to scroll to the end of the chat because there's someone who needs to be banned Well, there we go. Hold on Wow, this person's a real winner. Okay. Yeah, here we go remove No, okay, how do we remove this? Sorry I use your own this channel There's the little, uh, hamburger-y thing over to this side. I got him. Okay anyway, um Six might have been more hellish. Hmm. That's true Okay, there we go. That should be it for that guy. Thank you somebody for catching that. I apologize Anyway, this is why we can't have nice things in the world. So it's true Okay, I think I think it's all gone now. Hopefully shame that heldurado isn't in production anymore It's no. Yeah, I do have some heldurado models. I've got some painted the lizard I forget what to call the faction lizard faction, but I have some of those guys actually I painted those a long time ago Okay There we go. Okay. Good. All gone. All gone All gone bad person's all gone. All right Okay All right now. I'm not sure where we are, but we'll keep going. Uh Blah to do do do. Oh, there we go. Hey, you got it. Okay Any chance of selling 10 d12 dice packs? Not the easiest thing to find you can get them on amazon I mean if you've got a friendly local game store They'll have you know d12s and stuff like that It was a thing that I did think about if it's not a more I mean like I have a thousand d12s being a role player for 30 years, but adam did point out Hey, not everybody's a weirder like you Um, but yeah, like amazon and several other online stores like that have D12s you can order in bulk. I mean if you go to like chest or whatever the dice companies you can get those So, yep Um, evidently that guy's not gone Really? I did this person not go away Now it is. Yep. Now it says you've been blocked. There we go. Okay Here I'm gonna refresh To make sure this person is gone. There we go Yep, we know about the chart with the uh devout for the judges and the earthbound they did get crossed I just saw that. Um, but yeah that we we're gonna try to fix that. Yep Okay, there you go. Oh nice Uh, yeah, really really a solid person. Yes I think he came in with a this this little weird thing came in with a second account. I'll I'll watch for him Yeah, different person. That's really nice. Okay. All right Fantastic Infomercial had me laughing at works as terrier. Halo. Yeah, that was that was well done. I enjoyed that Uh, thank you. I was very proud of that one. I'm not gonna lie Oh boy this Okay, all right Really determined. Uh, yeah, evidently so Uh, okay. Yes report. It's a bot. I did report it already. Don't worry. All right All right, just why I'm sorry trying to get rid of them all Okay It's actually the first time in a long time. I've seen a bot. Uh Why not usually porn bots, you know Clostrophobia has a plethora of good demon minis as well. I'm not familiar with claustrophobia. Is that are they um Is that a 3d sculptor like with stl's or is that a company? Like I like I like a the company that produces miniatures and stuff like that I've been trying to figure out like I really enjoy using stuff Not so much for our game because it doesn't I don't know if there's anything that fits yet But I want to take a look but anvil industry I've been getting a lot of stuff from them for like zona alpha and stuff like that because I like those types of games as well And so but I don't know if they have anything that was going to be demon oriented So I want to take a look at that Yep, okay, so I'm sorry. I lost some of your all of your chats. I'm trying to scroll back to it Well at the same time watch for this very annoying bot that is horrible. Okay, uh, let's see Uh scrolling back up He's doing it again Clostrophobia was the board game implementation of hell Dorado. Oh, okay. All right Gotcha All right, let's see here. Will you guys film a bat rep for the new game if you haven't answered this question already? Um, we do want to do something like that. There's going to be like I said, hopefully this weekend I'm going to be able to produce Uh, kind of a short video that's going to be like this is how activation works This is how combat works this you know that kind of stuff But as far as a full blown bat rep that's going to take a little bit longer because like I said earlier We're going to have to come up with Problem I got at the very least I got to come up with a couple of war bands of like actual complete stuff And not just stuff that I painted for the um For the game or for the pictures and stuff So there's that and um, I don't know we you know, I I think sam and I are hopefully able to get together soon as well I think he's got both of his vaccination shots now and I do so we'll be looking forward to that So yeah, that should be very cool. Yes indeed Uh Okay, so I don't see this thing this little bot coming back So hopefully I killed it dead, but I'll watch we will see yeah And if necessary, yes, I'll find somebody and make them a mod. That's fine I didn't think I would need a mod for this, but hey, there we go. Well, it is the internet, you know Indeed, uh, zero says had just how big do you imagine these demons getting is to develop like a bloodthirster? What are those chunks? No, it doesn't have to be again size doesn't equate to power I mean adam you talked about that a little earlier, right? Mm-hmm Yeah, it's going to be a situation of um one of those You know like you've like basically you've got a 60 millimeter base is about the max size you want to go for a Devout so like a bloodthirster would not fit on a 60 millimeter base. I don't think so Yeah, um, it's it's you know, like those are you if you want to go that big you can certainly but understand that It's also going to take up a lot of your deployment zone. It's going to take up, you know, it's that kind of thing. So yeah, yep Uh, all right Okay, I saw emily in here earlier. Uh, I want to say hi to emily. Oh, yeah, there you go. All right Yeah, hanging with the hub in the pops nice Uh, let's see. Oh goodness sakes. I'll let you keep I'll let you keep grabbing questions while I'm not a problem Um, let's see. What else have we got thinking about using middle earth strategy battle game orcs for my basic dudes I could see definitely doing something like that. That could be very cool. Um Let's see here Uh, the infomercial was ace top content led every second of it. I agree. I also enjoyed it I really enjoyed, um, like if you've watched the little video on the website that we've got that kind of shows the Like where it's me doing a voiceover talking about like kind of what the game is I did a shot, uh, like like early on in the video. There's this shot where I'm like I've got this fancy lens It's called a probe lens and it kind of backs away And that's how you see like all these miniatures and stuff and it was it was super fun. So I don't know Yeah, I don't know it was a lot of fun to do Uh, that shot and to kind of film that sort of stuff And it's a different kind of aesthetic that I'm used to in my own videos, you know Like just a little bit more kind of metal and that kind of stuff Uh, so nothing above 60 millimeter is good for the game again, like I said, it's a suggestion That's what we're saying that the max size is about 60 millimeter if you want to go with something huge You can it's more likely that you're just going to kind of run about of space a bit, but you could certainly do it um So there's that can you have mounted demons? I mean you could certainly have a demon on a mount, but it's not going to act any different Like there's no specific mounts in the game mechanically as far as rules and stuff like that. So yeah that uh, that doesn't um That doesn't seem to be something that like we didn't really look at mounts But if you wanted to put something together you could totally do that. So yeah All right Real uh, good time there. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is this is good So I think maybe it's a good idea to uh to to end. I think that that's uh, you know What's going on? I think that we can maybe do some more of this stuff We're getting a whole bunch of them all of a sudden. I don't know how it's a good time But uh, yeah, it's uh It is uh, what it is Indeed well bots ruin things and all of that and that's fine Uh, we will uh, I hope everybody found this helpful Uh, and uh, you know, there you go We've that's a lot of questions obviously if you've got more drop them down in the comments there Uh, I will uh, in that way I can we can get to them. I will be answering all comments throughout the day Uh, and uh, and make sure that everybody gets taken care of So there we go. Absolutely. Very good. And we're gonna talk again. Maybe Is it coming week? Uh, yes, uh, if you want to know more this wednesday Adam is going to be on warhammer weekly and it's going to be a little rain and hell weekly diversion. So Uh, come check that out. We'll be talking about that and uh, sorry everybody for the the bot spam I will figure out how to solve this for the future And uh, I've never run into it that bad before so there you go Uh, I hope everybody had a good time. Thank you adam very much as it is. You're all amazing. You're all wonderful Uh, I hope we answered all your questions Uh, like I said, if I didn't drop them down in the comments, we'll get them answered. Okay All the links are down there. Check them out. Hope you enjoy the game