 You're welcome back. It's still the Breakfast on Plus TV Africa. Right now, we're going to be talking about the extrajudicial killings in Annambra State. A group has demanded the release of the panel report on the extrajudicial killings in that state. And we have Comrade Mark at the Bayo National Spokesperson Coalition of United Political Parties, CUPP. You're welcome to the program, Comrade. Thank you so much for having me and good morning viewers. Okay, give us a background to these extrajudicial killings that we're talking about here in Annambra State. Well, it's quite unfortunate because, especially the activities, the terrorism being unleashed by the so-called non-gun men, the whole of South East. It's not just Annambra, the whole of South East. It's terrible. But it doesn't also give the security agencies the leverage to extrajudicially murder people, because people need to go to Saudi Arabia, except you find people in active armed engagement that you can engage them and shoot them. But it's real whereby you have a letter, people. Anybody arrested will serve the right of prosecution. I will serve the right to a lawyer, a legal agency to be able to pass through the normal legal processes of litigation and prosecution so that you can prove every criminal, every suspect is presumed innocent, but the proof is not lies. That's the same thing that's happening. Look at last week. A little girl, one miss Yahya, was just shot dead by political talks in Kogi State. So I'm wondering, look, if I'm not taking Kogi State, may not even witness a peaceful election. And I don't know why the governor has been so politically correct that he's thinking that I shouldn't arrest opponents. Look, anybody that wants to disturb the peace of a state must be arrested. They don't have immunity, they don't have constitutional immunity. Look at some of the candidates in Kogi State and some other states have been going about their campaigning, especially the SDP candidates in Kogi State. By now, I believe that the police should have arrested that man. I believe it should have been arrested. Yes, that's good for the opposition. But the issue is that I hinted to you whereby an innocent girl or innocent people would be shot dead because you have been politically correct. And then everybody is looking at the person who encourages, promotes insecurity. So it started. I am baffled that, okay, you claim you are fighting for your people. Maybe you are demanding for your own separate state of Biafra or something like that. But the same people you claim you are liberating, you are killing, you are shooting, you are raping, you are abducting. The governors in the South East are not doing well. They are not doing well. They need to ramp up their security network. It is not something that the innocent people are doing in his own. Look at what happened to the boy two or three days ago. We have properties that were destroyed, people were shot, people were massacred. Because people are claiming to be fighting. I am a student of a revolutionary issue. You do not kill or attack the people you want to liberate. That's why when I was reading and watching the reports on Kogi State, how can somebody who claims that I want to go find a state, you are not promoting security, you are promoting foul language, you are promoting ethnic divisionism and revisionism in the state. And then the governor is watching, he is like afraid that, no, if I read this person now, let me say I am being, maybe his commissioner of police came out to say, to begin to complain. You see, we as leaders and as governors as security leaders, you don't wait until this gets to a level that is unconstitutional before you take action. Take action against people that you know are breaking and breaching the security and peace of your state. And the governors in the South East are not doing enough. They are not doing enough. They are not being proactive. These guys are not coming from the top. They are going to go and execute people anyhow. Now, just because you are angry, you know, look, as an intimacy, I know that it is very wrong for you to extra-judicially terminate people. They need to go through the legal and constitutional processes of litigation and be presented in court, in a court of competent jurisdiction to be prosecuted and in formability, you know, let them face the full rot of the law. There is no, in our constitution and our laws, there is no space, there is no place, there is no point for extra-judicial modus. No, no way. Okay. We are being joined also by Mr. Biodon Shoumi, a public affairs analyst. Good morning and welcome to the program Mr. Shoumi. Good morning. Thank you for having me. It's unfortunate that we are at this point where we will be talking about groups urging the government or urging the relevant bodies to release a report that had findings to the extra-judicial killings in a number of states, and not just a number of states anywhere else that that report, a report like that has been done, that has not been released. So I just don't understand what is happening. If you have insight to why the police will not release the report of these extra-judicial killings that was set, the committee was set up in February by the SWI inspector general of police. And from February till now, we have not heard that. Do you have any insight as to why this report has not been released and so far, how far? Well, it's quite bad that we found ourselves in a situation where those who are supposed to protect the lives of the public are actually alleged to have been involved in the killings in Anambra State, organ-advesting, start-judicial killings and all that. We should not forget the fact that the usual blower actually fled for his life and he was brought back by the Nigerian security services, kept in protective custody, interviewed in relation to it, later charged for one offense or the other of impersonation of this officer, whether correct or not. But at the end of the day, what has happened so far is that the will of investigation is so slow to the extent that it is now leading to speculations on the part of the public and leading to demand being made by civil society organizations, which already is creating a kind of, painting a kind of scenario that the police are trying to hide one thing from the other or they give a alleged debt of their involvement in what has happened in Anambra State. I am not saying those suspicions are right, but what I'm saying is that the will of investigation is so slow. According to the police, they released the initial, the forwarded initial preliminary investigation reports to the ITP. If that is correct, the ITP may have given further instructions on those aims that should be investigated and should that be the case, we expect, or the public expect that that should be done speedily rather than delaying the whole process. And it's time the ITP himself, we have no reason to doubt his impeccability or its honesty in this matter to actually weigh in and ensure that it could speed up the will of investigation. Yes, I agree there must be diligent investigation, otherwise if we do a short investigation it will end up failing in the court of law. We will not be able to ensure that the appropriate people are convicted. So, but notwithstanding that, that alone would not suffice to explain the slowness of this. This has been going on for about eight months, almost nine months. And for me, so many lives were lost and organ investing is horrendous crime. Establish a killing horrendous crime. There were even allegations that people were being killed with the view to take over their property. So, all this needs to be unraveled and the ball is in the IGP's court. But would you say that is because, let me remember what you, Mr. Ashok, made, would you say that is because it is allegation against the police? That's why the will of investigation, as you put it, is so slow. Well, it's an allegation involving not only the police but also civilians. Notable civilians in Anambra State. My point is that it's slow. It could be due to the copability of the police, some senior police officers in Anambra State. Or it could also be slow due to the fact that the police force is highly overwhelmed. Don't forget all these are found around the election, electioneering period where so many police officers were taking up their beads to provide protection either for election or for contestants. But since then, we have finished elections by May 29. The new president has been thrown in. So one would have expected that more attention would have been paid today. So why this is lower than necessary is inexplicable to me. But I know the claim they have submitted the initial report. So why is the initial report, if not released, submitted to IG? If it has given further directions on the matter, by now this issue should have been concluded. So it's leading to its breathing suspicion which is not good for the police. The fact that it's being delayed for that. So the right thing is for the IGP to take this matter seriously and then look into it, ensure there is diligent investigation which should lead to prosecution of indicted police officers and culpable civilians. Okay. Let me come to you, Comrade. Mr. Show may just say something about the fact that it's not only about the police but also notable civilians. And when you say notable civilians, our minds go to politically aware people, people who are high up there and who should be our leaders. Now you are a National Spokesperson Coalition of United Political Parties, CUPP. And I'm wondering, these violence has, in most cases, been attributed to the workings or the doings of the political persons within communities. What are you doing as a coalition of these political parties? What are you doing to make sure that violence in politics is either reduced or abolished? Do you do anything deliberately towards that end? Well, the duty and assignment of an opposition is to hold those who are political officers accountable and responsible for whatever happens in their states, in their domain. We have been doing that. We have even made interventions in terms of written recommendations that this is what's supposed to be done. As a matter of fact, the opposition, like for instance, I'm a colleague, he came to Imo Goshi really, was a free team of these same political violence in Imo State. They are not allowed to look at government of Imo State. His house was attacked. His people were killed. Let me get this right, please, Comrade. Hold your train of thoughts. You said opposition. And when we see coalition of united political parties, what comes to mind is all political parties shed whatever divergent views they have. They come together and see how politics can go to greater heights and all that. But you're repeatedly using the word opposition. So this coalition is only for opposition. Is that what you're saying? Yeah, exactly. I mean, principally and primarily, CBP is an opposition, you know, am a gam of political parties, definitely. Opposition to what? Because in some cases, they are PDP governors. In some cases, they are LP governors and all that. So how do you function in states where you have different political parties at the helm of affairs? That was a very damn good question. The issue is that, you know, when you have a government, a party in power at the center, which is currently the APC, now you are having, you know, the am a gam of other political parties who are in the opposition. But generally, what we do is to hold the government accountable and also to provide solutions. For instance, I mentioned in my introduction that in the issue of Cougis State, where we know that the governor has done a lot in terms of security and the rest of that, but that currently the things that are going down there is not being proactive. It's been trying to be politically correct and not putting people that are supposed... By now, he and the police are supposed to have put some people in custody to stem the tide of violence in that place. But having said that, the important thing concerning the Anambra and generally the country is that you cannot expect the police to investigate the police. If you... You cannot expect the police to prosecute the police. You cannot expect the police to monitor the police. You don't expect the police to condemn the police. So, the issue of S.H.A.Gufiakilin in Anambra and any other state of Nigeria needs to be investigated, integrated and handled by a different agency, possibly the directorate of state services, DSS. We need an independent agency to investigate the police. You cannot expect the police to investigate the police and come out with the kind of report that we are expecting. Even the police engage in S.H.A.Gufiakilin allegedly. Now, you now expect the police to now investigate itself and sort of implicate itself. No, it will be slow or it will never be done. We have had S.H.A.Gufiakilin since 1970s, 1980s till now. Look at the other brothers that were murdered. They were born in 1982 in Lagos. Nothing came out of it. You cannot expect the police to investigate their own crimes. It is an abnormal loss. It is not going to work. So, we need to have an independent body that will investigate. This is the time that I expect the National Human Rights Commission to come on board and handle these cases. Anything that informs the police cannot be investigated by the police. I expect a good result. I want to appreciate the colleagues at G.P. and the police authorities generally for what they are doing recently. You know, the guy who was beating somebody, who was slapping somebody, I think it was Impata Code. I was dismissed from the... I think it was deranged from the inspector to Nia Sajed, a good enough punishment. But, you know, where you dismiss police officers from his contacts from the force, you also need to... I think you need to monitor the activities. These are people who already understand how to undo weapons, arms, and the rest of that, and they already understand the security accession of the country. Where you dismiss them or you punish them, you monitor them adequately. I would recommend sincerely that if you are dismissed, especially if you are dismissing a policeman or police officer from the force, from his conduct, you need to put him or her in custody for at least one year so that you monitor... You kind of, in a way, you know, you try... You try to monitor him or her to ensure that you're not going to the Royal Society and then continue to commit crime. It's very important. But the most important thing here is that you cannot expect police to investigate itself. We need an independent body to investigate the police. You cannot expect the army to investigate itself. We need an independent body to do that. First, once you are having the... You are leaving the initiative to the police to investigate itself. We are not likely to be getting the justice that we want to get in this matter. And where you... Again, you should... What you have done is that you have committed crimes against humanity. You have committed a crime against humanity. So the police authorities need to you know, to help you again in this matter and then explain in this matter of the anagra state where some politically exposed persons were allegedly to be involved. People have to be arrested or infighted, infested and if a couple taking to court and properly prosecuted. Okay. So this is taking too long. Okay. As we wrap up, Mr. Showami, the case is becoming more and more worrisome. A case of violence in our elections. I know that we've experienced election violence over the years but now it's scary maybe because we have the social media and information is very, very easy to get these days than before now. So what do you think can be done to remove violence from our electoral process if you may because if there's violence and politicians are involved that means civilians are involved. So what do you think can be done to sanitize our political space and remove the kind of violence that we see these days from our political space? Honestly speaking, it's part and parcel of a personality and I will give you a good example. The last election in the United States of America was also re-dual with violence in some states in America and not only that, we even saw what happened at the U.S. Congress trying when people tried to overturn the results of the election violent, you know, invading the Congress that has never happened even in Nigeria. So that would tell you that the nature of presidential system which is winner takes all makes it highly competitive and very, very antagonistic, you know politicians are antagonistic to each other because if you lose out in the power game there's no way you can accomplish your own manifesto or your program. Now, to answer your question directly I still think that we need to move away from presidential system of Congress apart from the fact that it's this very, very expensive it drains resources that are needed for development we need to move towards parliamentary system of government where if you score 40% in an election you will have 40% representation in the parliament a party that scores 10% will have 10% representation it will be a winner takes all and in many cases except you are extremely popular that you have over 50% that is when you are able to decay the terms otherwise you have to go you have to form an alliance with another political party in order to form government it means more people expectations and their belief will be better represented in government currently under the presidential system of government it is only the perception of APC and their manifesto that will be implemented then you now ask yourself APC with 35% what comes to the rest terms 65% whose voices will get drowned simply because they are not represented in the parliament so we need to move away from presidential system of government move to parliamentary system of government where what matters is winning your constituency and not winning the election nationally that in my view will help to reduce the nature of the level of violence which we are witnessing with current ok may we all survive it better days for Nigeria I would like to thank you gentlemen for coming on the show this morning to also talk about lend your voice to the fact that we do not need all these extra judicial killings and whoever is culpable should be prosecuted so that we begin to see action I would like to thank you comrade marca de bayo national spokesperson coalition of united political parties CUPP thank you for coming on the program thank you so much for having me and also Mr Biodon show me a political affairs analyst thank you so much for being a part of our program this morning thank you for having me ok well that's how we wrap it up on today's show we do hope that you had a wonderful time being with us we'll do it again tomorrow and for now on behalf of the entire family of the breakfast on plus tv Africa I say thank you for being there up next is the news my name is HG