 on, well I guess there are a couple of ways in which the calls seem to me to be working and to not be working. And in that church sense, you know, where it's like valuable to just go, even if you don't go every week, and kind of drink in the goodness of whoever happens to be talking that week, it works to me with the rotating cast, and you know, not breaking that church feeling seems like an important thing in the OGM, you know, I don't know what to call it, religion. Community or OGM are happening. Immuning. Yeah, I mean in the kind of the manifestation of the spirit of OGM is really strong in those meetings, and that's really free form and and it seems like it sort of needs that lack of structure or that really rudimentary structure of you go, you go, and sometimes it turns into a conversation, sometimes it doesn't. As a gateway to OGM, I think it's really not working, or it's really not working for people who aren't kind of patient and bought in. It's not meant to be the gateway. Right, I know, but it is because that right now it is. It is, and so I mean I think some of the ways in which one would want to change the Thursday meeting have to do with inclusivity and trying to do that with the Thursday meeting in a like violent way seems like the wrong approach and so how to do other things that take the pressure off the Thursday meeting to be so central and so everything. It's like if you don't go to church this week or synagogue or you know whatever your ritual would be damned to go to hell, you can go back and it always feels good and you didn't you know miss the important decision making. That seems like what the Thursday meetings want to stay and so offloading some of the centrality and well I don't mean to say centrality because it is central but you know some of the some of the pragmatic purpose of the meeting to other things seems like a way to something to explore. Those are great observations Michael. Thank you. Go ahead Mark. Yeah, thank you Jerry. I completely agree with you Michael and maybe to bring into this next Tuesday and I posted it in the stewards chat as well as a personal invite. Judy and I had a long conversation yesterday and what we want to do is we want to talk about in a formal way how do we become more inclusive and how do we open OGM is probably the best thing and it's not just about inclusion in the moment you know whose voices get heard, whose voices don't get heard but it is about how do we recognize where we are right now in the diversity that we have, how do we bring in greater amounts of diversity and diversity being more than just you know race, ethnicity, it's diversity of thought, diversity like and we have to define some of those things but there's an invitation process, a welcoming process and a bringing into the community that I think the calls are becoming harder to do because there are some of us who are so comfortable with what they are that our participation begins to dominate and so there's something about the critical mass of that culture that other people go oh I get this like you know like Agil is someone perfect who said oh I get what this is and I'm in right he didn't need to be right he didn't need that step but there are other people because of you know because of that energy that also go well wait a second how do I get my voice into this thing in a way that is respectful I don't know all the rules so I think yeah and am I even welcome yeah right am I even welcome to do that because because in some ways it's like I don't even see people like me and I know there are a couple of individuals who have decided not to attend the calls anymore because they feel like they're not valued in them the same that way that other people are and that's a it's a weak signal and I think Tuesday will be an opportunity for us to start to explore those things and maybe create the the welcome to experience for those people who don't want to just jump into the pool right correct me um I by the way I know a couple people who are also like that I don't attend the calls because you know I can't participate um I wanted to come back to Michael's observation of centrality which I think is not incorrect but um but when I introduced people to to OGM I actually bring them to matter most um and I say you know look at these people who you know some of them look at the things that we talk about look at Kiko lab look at you know the stuff that's not OGM or Kiko lab look at you know look at the soup and I think I've also done that with OGM forum you know this is the kind of stuff that we talk about and by the way we also have these Thursday calls which are kind of the heart of the group whether you know for some people it's 100% of the group some people it's like 10% of the group we already have a lot of participation and a lot of venues which I know is not obvious to anybody except the people who've already experienced it but it is already there and it's not like the OGM the the call is not the like in a way another primary door is actually the mailing list historically the way that you're supposed to join OGM is uh you asked me to invite you the mailing list and you know that's another centrality that is also kind of a false centrality which breaks a little which is false which also sort of breaks I'm realizing when everybody's coming in from different directions um and not on the list because for me in my head who's on the who's on the Google group is at least the way I wrap my head around how many people are sort of mingling around in this community so I know that that's out of date now in the sense of I haven't processed a lot of new people into the Google group recently but I've seen a bunch of new faces and the calls and stuff so so so maybe what we want to do is is use next Tuesday to take you know I want to hear from people about their ideas of inclusion and welcoming and those sorts of things but I think let's take an action out of this to recognize that maybe maybe the Thursday calls are insufficient in their ability to bring people into that experience who have you know different things I think so let's explore that as a parallel path which is which is really about the contagion layer for us and how we find new people welcome new people and then this thing is how do we scale Thursday's calls do everybody does every does it just get bigger and bigger and bigger or do or do we say we're going to cap the zoom window at you know the brady at the scale of brady bunch and this is what we do and you know at collective next as we go to higher group sizes people come in and then we just we just break it into and we just break it into so you're still showing up for the Thursday call depending on how many people show up you say we're going to spin up another room and we're going to record both rooms and we're going to publish both rooms and you know the Jerry role has to be fulfilled by somebody else and then we're then we're actually training and experiencing the Jerry role because I would like to also see Thursday's calls be time zone friendly right I have somebody that I met who I think would be awesome and Jerry I know you're reaching out to her she's from Australia and her Thursday calls are in the middle of the night at a fabulous conversation with her yesterday she's awesome she's awesome she should be in but she won't be in on Thursday so maybe there's also parallel universe right yeah and by the way I picked 7am originally for the calls because there were two people in Singapore and Hong Kong who wanted to participate neither of whom is really ever shown up both of whom will be great in the group and so then we bounced the Thursday call to 8 which is terrible for Australia so we could we could have an evening call or whatever and then so I'd love to get back and maybe be more structured about the after action review what's working what's not working what could make it more of what it is just to be a little just to pull into from the outline what's going on and then I was just Pete more it seems more and more urgent to me that we might be able to do the static site builder version of peeking into wiki pages so that we can easily put up pay here's a map of what's where here's how to get there etc etc like that like like the pages I'm putting in so where does that where does that urgency go how do you mean it's like Pete's desk that's awesome who's going to do that work I'm just saying that that on your you showed your list of things for massive wiki to be doing and I think that being able to do that so here's my client work that pays here's massive wiki literally yesterday I was going back and forth in my head how stupid or how brilliant it is is it for me to take a thousand dollars out of my bank account and then pay somebody to do the work and it's like so you know do I go to Jordan and say dude how stupid is this how smart is this so we so so Pete here's where we are here's where we are with the money no the money is the money thing is really interesting so so what Jordan and I are talking about right now outside of ogm is that I'm going to put up some money he's going to put up some money we're going to go into Lyonsburg then Lyonsburg you know that's all going to be into the foundation then Lyonsburg will grant some you know some resources matching resources so into ogm and then you know the ogm community has to go and find you know has to go find those things but it may be some of those are meant for matching and some of those are meant for immediate distribution and then and then the operating committee ultimately has to decide where are we going to put those resources and if Jerry says you know if if Pete your job is to keep the list of all of these things you know then I think it's the rest of the community's job to look at that list and say yes we'd like to we'd like to help fund that list and if the community's going to fund some of that list then this this matching grant kind of program would then kick in to double you know to kind of double those things a little bit because that's what we want is we want to use our capital to encourage the attraction of additional capital so that as we spend down we don't just get to zero and then just have to keep have to keep funding this right um so totally agree so we need to get money but so money has to come into this conversation that sounds like a two week a four week process and the the urgency of just a static site generator firm you know it's like that's a like a two day or four day thing yeah but I guess I guess the answer Pete is we can't do it we don't have the resources I'm sorry no I you know so yet so it was yesterday that I'm going through my head you know okay Pete is going to walk over to to Joanne and say honey we want to buy a thousand dollars worth of massive wiki stuff and she was like what what the fuck what's a massive wiki why do I care you know shouldn't we be spending that on house and hold improvements you know that's so for two maybe maybe what we should do maybe what we don't know but maybe what we should do is to say to say okay okay um Pete we have a we have a cash flow issue because it takes two weeks to get you know this you know um we we are going to permission a thousand dollars out of the ogm bank account to Pete to do this unfortunately Pete we're not going to be able to get you that those funds for another two weeks you know and you have to decide am I going to float am I going to float this organization that thousand dollars and maybe we say it's a thousand and ten dollars I can float that I don't think it's the right thing to do I don't think it is without a without a without the letter of understanding that you are floating it and it's a formal kind it's a formal mo you between I I think it just it's just jumping the gun of structural you know you can't promise you can't promise to do something before it has a structure to be able to promise to do something it's it's just you know not I mean it I trust I you know I would trust that but it's stupid for anybody to it's you know there's no structure to be able to make that promise so we shouldn't make that promise so Michael then Michael then me yeah I was just gonna say you know just on on the order of of not spending you know Pete's money and time that there are things that I might be able to do with factor because it's outside accessible and built that that could do some of the things we want them to do but you know that's something for for maybe me and Pete to talk about when we talk this afternoon so I was just throwing that up so a couple things I'll try to say this as best I can Pete somehow you've painted yourself into this corner a little bit and I mean this in the in the lovingest way I was ready to build I was ready to build these pages on google sites a thing which you have successfully sold me off and you have sold me into massive wiki which without your attendance is unworkable because I can't find my even I who am reasonably literate cannot find my way like you said would you like to set up a this page right that we're working on here I was like how the fuck do I do that yeah and so please please could you do this and you are the that makes you the official note ticker during all of our meetings so you have brought on this insane burden which I am dying to fill your pockets with filthy lucre I am just dying and and the moment April April was aware that Jordan's matching funds were matching not now but later because we have to go fill the pot and the track that she was like what the fuck yeah and I can't claim her yeah so I'm in the same position you're in in a different way and I'm feeling the stress and it's like not that pleasant but I'm loving what we're doing and I love working with you and every time we're on the we're on the phone together I mean the zoom is together and we're busy like debating whether it's that or which or you know whatever it's totally fun and I love that we're doing this and I'm just trying to figure out how do we get to the place where I can be turned loose to go create a million pages in the wiki because I know we need them and then other people can edit them and we can and we can federate the calls so that we have like I'm just trying to get turned loose to do that so I feel your pain and I'm just trying to figure out how do we make it through the next couple weeks because because we are suffering right now for not being able to share with everybody here's our four platforms and you're busy explaining to them by hand here's our four platforms and here's how to log in and you're the and you're the tech support behind the scenes who gets them on matter most and that doesn't scale either like the Pete doesn't scale unless we can scrub your like scrape some cheek cells and grow you grow you in a bat like that you don't scale either and I'm off for that I'm off for that let's do that yeah and so I'm trying to figure out how do these puzzle pieces fit together so that in a month or two there's actually some revenue flowing where you're comfortable I'm comfortable and several other people who devoted a lot of time and effort to what OGM is doing are comfortable and we have this big thing ahead of us which is okay now that there's revenues coming and what's an equitable distribution mechanism for the value being created and shared through OGM which is a biggest discussion on its own that's a that's like a big to-do item in my head is like oh we have started filling the reservoir we need to make sure there's a fair way to to to manage that and that's ahead of us even so sorry long rant but but but Michael I don't think we need factor as much as we've got tools on hand we could use we're in this thing right now we need to figure out quickly how to make make work more broadly mm-hmm so as an aside Michael I might need factor so that's where we need to have a conversation and I signed up for an account and it's beautiful like like you've got a beautiful platform there so I'm busy trying to figure out how you know if you added two features to factor I could you know upload my brain into factor and messing with that so that's really interesting to me we'll talk about that separately and I have 455,000 nodes waiting for you so so I think what I hear is that we're all frustrated and we have and we have a couple weeks ahead of us where it's not gonna it's just gonna be painful or or or the answer guys is we we recognize where we are and we we're in a we're in a pause right where we are prioritizing a certain type of work which is the work around the financial economics and the value flow and all that kind of stuff so that we can then begin can kind of get back to doing the work that we need to do so we don't have to invite new people in at this exact moment and we may tell our community guys we are now through phase one which was to getting to seeding an initial community right we need to we need to get to phase two which is the way that we can start to tap into this community to do work externally and to do work internally the work internally needs to be resourced you know and this is how we're going to do it and I think it's okay for us to say that you know we don't have to do this today right it's okay as long as we're organizing ourselves so we can do those things faster tomorrow um so something about um should we go back to the thursday calls and do an after action review yeah i um before we do that um up at line five and six how do we how do we continue this discussion because we don't have a lot of participation and this is the one we have 20 minutes left it's critical to the it's critical to the group you know to the the community i mean one meta idea obviously we were talking about you know kind of reaching out and surveying people i think the other meta idea is the next thursday call we talk we talk about the thursday call what do we like about this what don't we like about it we do the action action review with a thursday call and we and again we use it as a strategic pause from you know from that you know from that thing which will create more inputs for a call like this one where we have to make decisions based on that and take some action but yes i like that idea does that that feels really disruptive to me it's to use the thursday call for that purpose yeah it's like it's like going into a church on sunday you know and it's like you flip on the lights and you pull or you flip down the lights you put up the big projector screen is like okay now we're in planning session guys you know these services move your pews around into you know desks and and it seems really weird no i mean i've been i've been to church i've been to church where the sermon was about what does it mean to be at church you know that's the conversation what does it mean to be in you know community with each other during these calls you know let's talk let's have church about church versus church about you know easter we can also fold the process in gently i mean i could ask people as they check in to reflect on the utility of the calls to them or whatever else and we could do run and we could run a poll on the side in zoom poll or whatever we could we could do it gently um that seems like the worst of both so uh and maybe some people don't care but i think they'll care if we change it well it's going to change yeah so can i mention just this this is a variant um but the idea that the check in call i mean right now it's sort of it shouldn't be the gateway but it kind of is the gateway but it's certainly a barrier there there are people who show up there for the first time or don't ever show up because it's 90 minutes in the middle of a work day or the beginning of a work day you know it's a tough ask um and if if the if that goodness was distributed and more available through the week available through the week and to the extreme of every monday at three o'clock there's an ogm check in and maybe you know varies according to time zone you know it could be the same time every day of the week or it could be different times and once a week there's the high holy you know as many people as possible thing but it's a way for people to drop in check it out check in they're feeling like they need to check in it's almost like you know finding your a meeting or you know whatever it's i was going to bring up a yeah um i was going to bring up a partly because they created a blueprint where every meeting starts with the serenity prayer and then you go through this this this this and you know it's an a meeting because of all that despite whoever the hell is running it in whatever corner of the planet you're in and that that seems to work and i don't know that we can find a template like that i think there's there's something else about the essence of what we're doing that needs to be carried in but but i was going to have a template you know it's an order it says we're doing a check in we say keep them you know full you know so there's a little bit i i like that structure i think you know vincent you're just on the call um i haven't been there as much as i um thought i would be but you know the thing about a clubhouse in some ways is the club like that concept of a clubhouse is always open and you go to the you go to the clubhouse and whoever's there is there and you know if i it's like a it's like a gathering spot and so i'm wondering if there isn't a kind of a perpetual check in because some people come on and then they want to keep talking and then they stay they stay on the call kind of what that's kind of what the matter most town hall and uh and i'm talking about live conversation human to human where you hear the voice where you can you can you know bemoan your life together you can cry together you can be excited together you can get inspired together like it's that togetherness the communing that doesn't you know matter most isn't a commune experience it might be a community but it's not communing right and where's jamon's group um i don't know if anyone's familiar with it uh so jamon has been in the last like five kiko lab calls and he's brought a large or a small group of his group into the kiko lab calls um jamon i met him through uh i don't know how but he has this website which i'll post i think it's the conversation dot cc and i remember going to the site and it was like a live conversation that's happening all the time and i was like oh interesting and i clicked the button and it put me in a zoom room and it was like 10 o'clock at night and there was just six people hanging out in a zoom room and they were like yeah we do this like three days a week like for for like 24 hours and we take shifts and there's always someone here to like welcome people and i was like at first like really thrown back by and they were like welcome like we've been like waiting for you kind of thing but then at the same time i was like this is actually really cool that it's it's it was clubhouse before clubhouse where you could just go into a zoom room and there's people hanging out so it's very similar um to the clubhouse vibe but in zoom and so uh i'll send you there i mean the website isn't great i what i described is basically the concept yeah it's rat radish website is just radish dot org right i you think it's radish dot org yes yeah um so so there is a there is a possible future in which um there's a permanent clubhouse like room open we're hosting it just gets passed around the clock around the time zones you know and i if we had a thousand members i could sort of see that that would just show up organically um and would be pretty interesting um and and and i know that for me and and i marvel at how uh charles and maron charles in particular is doing like seven hour clubhouse calls and vincent years are i think relatively long too like i i can't do that like period i like the 90 the 90 minute calls or a segment that i can sort of do and and just to talk about what's working and not working just to try to do the after-action review before you run out of our next quarter hour for me and this is only for me i think of the check-ins as dipping a ladle into the stream and then stirring the pot a little bit and so by dipping the ladle in i mean you're not getting the whole stream everybody won't get to check in and for me that's okay but that's not explained explicitly and i don't i don't prep it and i could write this up so what i'm saying i could easily put on a page that anybody could read coming in as an intro but for me i'm just dipping a little into who's here and what are we passionate about and then by stirring the pot i mean i'm not just trying to dip and i don't want i don't want to put a timer because some people talk too long like i'm a pretty reasonable host to these conversations i think i've been doing it turns out i've been hosting this kind of conversation for probably 20 years i just realized that my ye 10 calls ran for nine years it was a podcast that was kind of like this and and i deprecated podcasts my podcast like two years before podcasts got hot again in the world but you know bad idea but anyway by by stirring the pot i mean when something interesting shows up after dipping the ladle in i'm like oh that's cool we could probably be helpful that's interesting what else can we say about that how does that fit the bigger picture and then how does the stirring the pot help explain what ogm is and where it might be headed and those two things for me consistently work and if the call went on as a 90 minute dip of the ladle in the stream and the stirring of the pot i'd be a happy guy and that works fine for me and i completely get that that doesn't work for a lot of people and i completely get that when you show up and it's all white dudes and you're just going to be like i'm not going to be the only non-white dudes you know in this group whether it's woman or a person of color and you would bounce i totally understand that and it makes me very unhappy uh over to you in the in the little rectangle map um so i think that there may be two two action items that we take out of this one is i do think that this conversation about how do we how do we be more welcoming and make our space more welcoming to a greater level of diversity in our in our organization right in our group so i think we have to we have to take that action i think Tuesday's Tuesday's call will be a step in that direction i think serving some people interview you know asking some people some questions both those who have attended in the past and that no longer attend and stuff and knowing why i think is a is a good thing i think the other action can you give me that it's a bullet an action item bullet again um i would call it um i i the action item is is um it sounded like start a process of start the quest start the quest of opening ogm and there's already a channel on it there's already a description of that quest um it's called open ogm opening ogm opening up i think it is um thanks so start that launch that quest um because that quest is something that's going to take a while and a lot of different things are going to happen around around that but let's start that quest and that quest right now is being sponsored by judy and i um and all are welcome and people are welcome to take it take it over so i'm willing to commit to that quest as other people are committing to the change the environment quest this is about about diversity equity inclusion and all that stuff i think the other action item is it would be good to have like you know ted did it i know clubhouse does it it's sort of the rules the terms of engagement and it's some very simple document that says you know welcome to ogm you know this ogm ogm calls you know even if it's a pdf document here are the resources that we have available to us here's how we participate with each other just a little bit of that stuff which even says you know something around the beauty of the of the calls is you learn things about people and when you learn something about a person that's interesting reach out to that person directly and have a you know do the one-on-one it's just like like what we did with factor i do it all the time someone says something i said hey let's have a talk but i don't think every people don't that's rarely happen where i'm not the instigator and if we can encourage more people to be the instigator then that ladle dipping and stirring the pot actually has value because we know that what you're trying to do is just to catalyze the next conversation this is not about solving anything here this is about just catalyzing the next conversation and as long as maybe that's the AA meeting the very first thing is we are here together to share in each other's experiences and to catalyze the next conversation so let's begin our check-ins first up boom boom boom so maybe there's just a simple mantra opening something that that begins the sit becomes becomes the symbol of the church you know of the church of of of the mixing up the ladling of the soup and the estuary and all that metaphoric stuff so can you give me a action item for that create a simple set of guide posts for people who are new to the new to the call so that they can orient themselves to what's going on faster than faster than sort of self discovery because we have patterns now that we're all oriented to that we built over time that we don't even realize we have right is that is that a pdf in a web page it could whatever form i i think i think i think a pdf is fine a web page is fine this overlaps with the points i put under create massive pages just about what to do now this is a lot of overlap on that but a simple doc i think just a simple document that people can look at what whatever form you know maybe we put it on maybe we put it on actually the ogm web page you know join it and it's on the join the thursday call and that's the first place we send people you know some introduction now i think that the the it's funny because i was just listening to the i think it was judith adding to the conversation about values in the early conversation with limesburg that the word genera generative was an important one and the idea that the purpose of the check-in meeting is to is to check in and also to foster further conversations that might happen outside the thursday call and you know relationships between the people there seems really generative and great that way and and one thing it also that also strikes me is i wonder if the idea of the initial check-in like sort of going around the room and checking in which could be as simple as you know introducing yourself because because hopefully you know they're not all there are people there who don't know each other sometimes um you know i'm michael i'm thinking about this this week uh and i'm really interested in talking to people about x and that initial check-in might happen in the first 20 minutes or half hour and then the freeform conversation that we have now can be dominated sometimes by the people who do dominate and people can you know do their long soliloquies and i'm like i'm fascinated listening to people who talk a lot on end but now we have it so it's to the exclusion of somebody getting to check in at all so it doesn't feel as good anyway just want to say that go ahead be um it's it's an interesting observation michael at the so it it it's called you know jerry calls it a check-in call and we we do something similar to check-ins um the call let me let me talk kind of in third person about jerry or something like that the call is actually i'm here fairly highly structured um by jerry who's curating a combination of check-ins and soliloquies so jerry is actually creating the the the space the the holy space that that it seems like out of bits and bobs of people coming in and out of conversation in a soliloquy and following topics and not following topics so it's actually not a check-in call it's not something where we do go around and do check-ins it's not even though it looks like it and it's not just random people doing a solilo you know various soliloquies it's not people waxing rhapsodic um based on their ability to wax rhapsodic it's actually jerry constructing essentially a bonsai tree that looks like a naturalistic check-in or a naturalistic you know uh three-minute university on a topic from gill or dug or you know judy it's not that it's it's a fairly carefully constructed call um pete thank you i'm sorry it's all disrespectful of what it is oh not at all no no no i i do i do not mean that you are being disrespectful it's just that it's it's actually not it's not emergent it's very carefully curated um and even though it looks naturalistic it's it's carefully constructed and a tiny note on one of the things you said all of which i agreed with um but you said that it's called the check-in call and i just i just sort of named it the check-in call and then started treating it as okay let's everybody check in maybe it should be called a mixer or maybe it should be called a dip and stir call and i should explain more more precisely the method that we're using to do this and then everybody be like i didn't get to check in wouldn't be an issue and i'm totally happy to write the page that does that or to record a video that says hey welcome everybody uh you know because it's warmer if it's if it's uh if it's video i think uh i think that's necessary and we'd love to do that um but but i think check-in is in some sense just misleading because uh at least automatic dissatisfaction if you didn't get to check in i think a video is great i think i think a document is good too it's just how do you get the most out of this how you know what are some of the strategies to get the most out of this conversation i mean when i went to ted it was the same thing i the first thing i did is you know i walked out of some of these rooms and i was like hey what did you think of speaker x and and the person standing there one person said that's the dumbest question that you could ask and then i was like what what and then someone nice came up to me and said okay here's the deal like we're not here to evaluate speakers what we're here to do is to let the speakers create opportunities for us to have real conversations so a better question might be you know what's something that you learned or what's something that inspired you and i needed somebody to say that to me so that i could fit into that community in the appropriate way it's not that i'm a bad person or dumb or whatever but most networking events it's what did you think of the speaker you know and it's a value tip so i think we just need guides into you know into our environment right um yeah and you know i think the other the other thing is i might consider a migration from zoom to something like hop in um where um people have more agency to sort of pop into something and maybe even spin upside you know kind of side things if we're going to go to a maybe a longer more you know a longer thing and we could you know maybe what we do is we we we figure out a way to extend extend the time so people can come in or come out and that you know look if i show up if i show up late i'm not going to not get in the queue you know but i can keep going so i don't know i think we just need to maybe consider something like that um i think the conversation about federating and spawning other variants of the call and all that and a little ultra platforms is another a separate juicy conversation we don't have time for right now i'm reminded of i watched the uh spider man in the in the multiverse or something whatever's called the the animation movie which was like phenomenal i love that thing and like all these other spides show up and there's like a pig spidey and the the the manga spidey and she's inside a robot and like it's super cool right so so if we could spawn a spiderverse out of out of what we're doing i'd be thrilled brief side story pete has been to a whole bunch of my retreats and one year a new bee showed up and i'm walking around facilitating and i sort of look over his shoulder and he has made for himself little cards for each attendee because i sent a couple of wait before the event i sent here's who's actually showing up right i sent just a document with with not a lot of links i didn't because because you're sort of i'm asking people to drop their title and all that at the door and just show up as a human but he had made cute cards on a card cheese um and he was sort of trying to work the room in in in that sense and and it was it was sort of the opposite of the ethos that i'm there i was trying to work for in that setting um yeah so so i think that i think this is a juicy conversation i'm still not clear and a little sad about this because i don't know if everybody has to bounce at the top of the hour but i still don't know what does work and what doesn't work for each of us about the calls because i think it's considerably different i think that each of us is having a pretty different experience of these calls and that's why i think a poll of the broad membership not just who's showing up would be really useful and the poll needs to be very carefully constructed so it doesn't make a lot of assumptions um i would agree with that jerry that that's an action item that we should we should you know ping ping our audience i also think maybe to finish that document action thing maybe we can crowdsource at the very beginning in the chat you know what are the what are the like for and i do this in a lot of meetings so how many people have been in a collective next meeting before and people raise their hands and then we say so what advice would you give to somebody who hasn't been in the meeting and then there's a quick popcorn of what is the device of all that kind of stuff if we did that you know so i see we have some new members on here why don't we spend just a couple of minutes what are the advice that you would give a new member about these calls and maybe that way we can be kind of gathering that that crowdsourcing that document as we go put it in your just put it in the chat i even think like formally welcome everybody here's where you go to chat matter most boo boo boo boo boo like we have to navigate people to the right places early on but that's those those are the pages that i was saying we should just build a massive wiki so that we can say hey here's here's how to get oriented here's what's where yeah and you show up to the call and then you know we the first chat that goes in the zoom chat is here here here's the here are the links guys to get you to get you engaged and and the next couple of calls we just we start with how do you get the most out of these calls what are the what are the rules that will help you as a new person first time i attended a quaker meeting was in connecticut and a buddy of mine at work said you know hey you just broke up with your girlfriend you're kind of glum uh the family and i've been attending this quaker meeting and i'm like quaker what so knowing nothing about the quakers i showed up before they showed up that sunday and the greeter at the door i still remember the handshake welcomes me with this insane beatific beauty and hands me a little pamphlet that's basically a very short pamphlet on on quaker silent meeting and i sit down and i read it and i'm like oh i'm oriented and i attended and until i moved to manhattan and didn't really groove with any of the meetings there i loved that meeting loved it and i and i used to attend i used to make sure i got there a little early and i would sit across from the door and i would just sit watching the people that i was getting to know arrive quietly with their and some with their kids because the first 15 minutes of meeting was kids allowed and then the kids would all get up and go off to to do something else and it was just this most beautiful experience so how do we replicate a little bit of that i'm gonna bounce um i'm gonna post this doc to the wiki and then to a link to it in stewards but not maybe for a couple hours thank you thank you uh flotilla pete yes uh you want to start doing or me um i'm logging to my zoom account so if you want to start it go for it cool michael matt do you want to talk chat for a little bit longer about this or should we go boogie i got a boogie michael happy to hang out for a little bit yeah cool i'll turn out the recordings so that that's the end of our normal call stop recording there we go