 Hello and welcome to NewsClick. Today we are joined by Viju Krishnan, joint secretary of the All India Kisan Sabha and we are going to be talking about the ongoing farmers agitation. So as we know, the agitation began on November 26th. There have been multiple rounds of talks. The farmers are very clear on what they want. They want the repeal of the three agricultural laws which were passed in a very undemocratic manner. In fact, whereas the government has been dithering, there have been multiple rounds of negotiations. So Viju is here to talk more about this. Viju, thank you so much for joining us. And first question is, like I said, the farmers are clear. The government has been inviting them for multiple rounds. In fact, on the day of the Bharat Band, there was even this whole, for lack of a better word, show of Amit Shah actually calling them and the farmers leaders and talking to them. So yesterday there was the offer of a written assurance. So could you maybe tell us from the sense you're getting what is exactly the government strategy? What are they offering and why are the farmers rejecting it? See the three acts which have been brought, they're all to be seen together. It's a package. And it is totally in the direction of government withdrawing gradually from public procurement and ensuring assured minimum support price and so on. And also total freedom for the corporate companies to hoard different crops as well as vegetables, oil seeds, pulses, et cetera, unlimited quantity of that. And the Contract Farming Act is also leading to a situation wherein the companies will decide what has to be grown on the land of the farmers. So farmers have very clearly understood that it is an act to promote profiteering by big agree businesses, especially they have termed these as the Adani Ambani loss, Adani Ambani acts. And this very clearly, every farmer, while the government and the prime minister claims that the farmers are being misled, the poor farmer in our country across the country have understood one thing that for whom these acts have been brought. And in these different negotiations, very clearly farmers have put across the viewpoints that they have farmer representatives have put across. The government is trying to only do some window dressing or just cosmetic changes to it. And for instance, saying that they will allow farmers to go to the civil courts if there is a dispute and so on. The matter is not just that. The entire system which existed earlier, that is being done away with. There were some issues with that. There were problems with that also. But it is literally throwing the baby with the bathwater. That is what this government is doing. And no efforts to strengthen public procurement or assured minimum support price for all crops. Even now we know how minimum support price is not accessible to all farmers. It is a very small section which is getting that to mainly in wheat and paddy that they are getting this minimum support price. There is no expansion of the procurement mechanism and so on. Already we see that even before these acts have come into being, we find that big companies like Adhani's Agri Logistics, they have been setting up silos. The land use has been changed in different states like Haryana to benefit them. Were they anticipating these bills, these acts? Is it that the corporate companies, Adhani's and Ambani's are actually controlling this government's policymaking? That is what we are questioning. And the government behavior in the negotiations with the farmer organizations, apparently, the home minister said they have some compulsions. What are these compulsions? It is the strings that are deciding strings held by these corporate companies which are deciding the policy direction of the government. That is why farmers are very clear. Last six years, the repeated promises of the government and the betrayals are very fresh in their minds. That is why this never-before-kind of unity and struggle is going on. Absolutely. And with you in this context, I want to ask you about the latest offer made by the government yesterday, which is that there would be a written assurance of an MSP. So what are the possible loopholes that come with that kind of a law? Actually, you see a written assurance. Firstly, it is not an MSP specific opposition that we have. We have a problem with the entire model, the paradigm that they are trying to impose on our country. Firstly, it is a federal system. State governments have not been consulted. Agriculture is a state subject. It has not been a state. None of the states have been consulted. No democratic discussions. You rightly mentioned how it was pushed through the parliament. And then these are the repeated prescriptions of the WTO, World Trade Organization, different countries like the United States, European Union countries have been pressurizing India. That is what the Shantakumar Commission put forward. And they have given a legal shape to it with these three. So this entire paradigm, now many journalists are terming this as a 91 moment for agriculture. They forget that 91 moment for agriculture has, according to conservative estimates, led to more than 4 lakh farmers committing suicide. We very well know what is in store for the farmers. In fact, the farmers of our country, they realize what is going to happen. That is why if you see the major protests in Punjab which has happened, there has been a consistent protest against the reliance and Adhanis. They realize in simple terms, this is the Adhani Ambani acts and what is going to happen to their futures. Absolutely. And this colleagues, I also wanted to ask you about the sense of the mood on the ground. You visited the protests, of course. And this is actually a very unprecedented protest in the sense of hundreds of thousands of farmers, of course, gathering. People have compared it to the great protests many decades ago. Of course, we also know that over the past few years, the anger by farmers has been building up. The AIKS especially has mobilized across the country. So what is your sense of the kind of mood on the ground of the farmers? See, I have been involved with student activism and then with the Kisan Sabha now almost for 25 years. I have not seen this kind of a movement and the solidarity that has been generated around that movement. The cross-class alliances, the kind of varied number of different organizations coming together. Firstly, the different farmer organizations under the All India Kisan-Sanghar coordination committee, the Punjab organizations and also the trade unions and different mass organizations, civil society groups coming out in support of the farmers. This is something I've never seen before. And if you see the farmers from Punjab and Haryana who are mainly at the two Tikri and Singhu borders, also those at the Ghazipur border, they know it is a long haul. It is not something, they know that this government is bent on pushing the corporate interests, but they are also prepared to take the fight to the finish. We have seen how people have come well prepared for a longer stay here. And in all states, even the government has been trying to portray it as a Punjab specific struggle, but you see the Bharat Band, the kind of response it has got across. That is something and consistently from June 1st week onwards, we have been consistently on the move, our different organizations. And it is not just All India Kisan Sabha, many smaller organizations all coming out. The effigies of Narendra Modi, Adhani and Ambani on 5th were burnt in thousands of places. This is the anger of the masses which we are seeing witnessing in this movement. And in coming days, certain other actions have been called for. On 12th, there is a massive protest that is called 14th again. And for instance, at toll gates, against reliance, Adhani, different establishments, we are going to have this protest. So very clearly against corporate loot and against a government which facilitates corporate loot, we are all uniting and it is not just the farmers because the consumers are also going to be affected. And in the lockdown period, all sections have lost their incomes, their big loss of incomes, unemployment and hunger and poverty. So all these sections understand what is going to happen with these acts. There would be price rise, there would be dispossession of farmers, agriculture workers who lose their opportunities of employment. So that is why there is a greater coordination, greater unity that has emerged and in a synchronized manner, a large number of organizations of the working class, of the farmers, agriculture labor, Dalit Adivasi organized women and youth students all coming together in this protest. This is like never before. We have not seen any such protest before. Absolutely. And we do in this context, the right wing is really taken aback by this as well. And we have of course seen over the past couple of weeks, the kind of propaganda models that they use first. There was of course Khaalistan. Like you said, there's this whole thing about this being only Punjab centric. There's this thing about it being only a rich farmer led movement. And of course you also experienced this yesterday when you went to address a student body at IIT Madras and there were a lot of trolls who came into this meeting, indulged in a lot of disruption, were determined to prevent you from speaking. So at this point, why do you think the right wing is right now so scared across India? See, very clearly, when you look at the earlier struggles which have happened around the CAA or on different such issues, the government tried to divide the people along communal lines. It was suppressed in different manners. We have seen the campaign around urban noxals or Pakistani agents and so on. Here they made that effort in the name of saying they are Khaalistanis. Some of them also claiming it is the communists are behind this and so on. But despite all these campaigns, people are not ready to accept that. And the unity has remained. It is through the talks that unity has remained with the main organizations which are behind this struggle. They have retained that unity. The government is repeatedly trying to break the unity in different ways that has not so far succeeded. And they have lost the debate very clearly. If they are sure that they are on a strong bracket, they should have initially consulted with the organizations, with the state governments. If it is in favor of the farmers, they could have convinced there was enough time for consultations and all. The meeting yesterday by Ambedkar Periyar study circle in IIT Madras, it was an open meeting. There was enough scope for people to come at the end and ask questions or debate or totally debunk my arguments. But what they resorted to is abusing language, loud ruckus and then also putting up pornographic material there. And this is the level to which they are stooping. That only exposes that it is coming from the top, the language used by Amit Shah and the prime minister, calling someone Khalistanis or anti-nationals, Pakistan, any agents and a different thing. And a section of the Godi media, the corporate media is also towing the same line. That their bugs are carrying on the same, the level of discussion that they are engaging in or the narrative that they are trying to set. So that is the manner in which they are willing to take it. But they are really rattled by these struggles. These struggles have rattled them. And the fact that the working class, the large section of the people who would actually experience price rise in the coming days, they are standing behind the farming community, behind agriculture workers and farmers. That is also rattling the Sangh Parivar and the BJP RSS. So we are seeing a response in this manner. They are unable to point by point, rebut any of the simple farmer of our country is able to counter them on each and everything. They are asking questions. If farmer is getting only 30 or 40 rupees for Arhar Dal, for which the minimum support price is more than 60 rupees, and why is Adani selling Arhar Dal at 220 or with a huge profit? Why is consumer having to pay? These questions are being asked by every person in India now. So that is something their troll armies or their IT team is unable to answer. They have failed miserably. Even the Gaudi media has not been able to because the solidarity with the farmers is something which people realize that even in a lockdown, the farmers have under a threat of pandemic have produced. It is their toil and investment leads to a situation where people of our country need not go hungry to bed. Thank you so much for talking to us. That's all we have time for today. Keep watching.