 What he represents is patriarchy. We're here to do work as men, as patriars. There's nothing more natural than being a father. Welcome back to the 21 Patriarch Edition. Our next speaker is a first-time speaker. He's an advocate for families, fairness, and justice. He's a coach. He's an author, a strategist, a trailblazer, and a father. Please welcome Carnell Smith. Thank you. Thank you all for this opportunity. It is phenomenal to be invited to the 21 Convention. As you can see, my name is Carnell Smith. I'm also called the Paternity Coach. And I don't teach people how to get pregnant. That's not the aspect of paternity that I deal with. But as you can see here, I'm a coach. I'm an author. I'm a strategist. And I'm the author of the book called Trap by Law. And what I hope to do today is to share something about a little-known thing called paternity fraud. And for over 21 years, I have been working to advance and popularize this term so that more men, boys, and the women who love them know about it and can take the active steps to do something to get them out of a trap and to avoid a trap. If you're familiar with this expression, avoid a trap, you must know the trap exists. I learned this from many of my military guys that during boot camp and some of their other training, they are taught how to maneuver. They are taught about the ways of the opposition, so the ultimate goal, so they can be victorious. So what leaves me here? And what helped me get to the point where I found myself becoming a supporter of civil resistance and civil disobedience. It was a phone call. By the power of one telephone call, it led me into two decades of advocacy. And that telephone call had this response on the other end from an ex-girlfriend, and she called me and says, I'm having a baby. And I said, well, congratulations. I hope you and your baby's dad will be very happy. And then she said seven words that no man wants to hear from an ex-girlfriend, ex-fiancee, or an ex-wife. She said, I'm pregnant and you're the father. Boom. This was not good news to me. And in my opinion, the Trojan man had let me down. He failed me, and I felt like, man, this is not going to work out well. But I said these words to her. I said, well, I'll tell you what I'm going to do. I am going to take care of the child, but if this is a means to bring me back into a relationship with you, that's not going to happen. I'll take care of my kid. And little did I know that was going to lead me to a five-year journey later through all of the court systems in the United States, including the U.S. Supreme Court, and eventually discovering that there is a need to change the law to protect men and boys. I'm an advisor to the women against paternity fraud. I'm the founder of Citizens Against Paternity Fraud. I'm a founder of Fortruth Identity, which was a legal DNA marketing services company providing services for maternity, paternity, and immigration by helping people solve questions about who's related to them. The other thing was that I was a co-founder of the National Family Justice Association as well. I'm featured on a cameo in the Red Pill movie featured by the producer Cassidy. I'm also in the movie, Hostage of the State. The theme on both of those is about paternity fraud. I'm a producer for the Real Life CD Project. Also, I'm a consultant for the National Paternity Fraud Survey, and I'm going to talk about that at the end, how I would love to have your participation in getting the word out about that, because one of the things that helps is exposing the trap and for the men and boys who are affected to help them explore solutions and remedies so that they might be able to do something about their situation, and that we can bring about so much light to the situation that those who've supported this fraud can no longer be comfortable with doing it. All right? Here I am. I've been on over 200 television radio shows in addition to movies that have been featured in Time magazine, but I don't want you to think me talking about this was trying to be about me. I was just a guy who was living his life thinking he had two daughters, a son, and I was just going on about my life. Man, I had gotten the dream job. I had gotten my associate staff position. I was working for an international company, and I was very well compensated. I bought another house, and I just thought, man, life is great. You know what I mean? I got another phone call. You're like, man, you don't stop answering the phone. But what happened with this next phone call is the ex-girlfriend says, I've been having a conversation with my girlfriends, and you don't pay me enough child support. What? WTB? Or in some peoples' mind, WTF, whatever that means to you. She said that you don't pay me enough. And I'm like, why would that matter to me about what your girlfriends think? I'm paying for a college fund for your child. I'm paying you support directly. I'm maintaining additional expenses. I'm helping for all of the extracurricular activities. What do you mean I'm not paying you enough money? Well, coincidentally, she just bought herself a new house and a new car. Oh, okay. All right, now I get it. You need more money. And somehow I'm supposed to make up the shortfall for your spending habits. I frankly don't agree. I said, if you think you can get more, take me to court. And sure enough, and a few months later, I get a sheriff at my door on Christmas. My wife at that time was a few weeks away from delivering our first child. And that scene was so disturbing that it caused my wife to have a panic attack and forced her into early labor. I got served with a child support lawsuit with a demand for, that was going to increase my support payment probably an extra $2,000 a month. And I was like, she's out of her freaking mind. I was like, there's no way that a court will make me pay that after they see what I'm already doing. Little did I know the court frankly didn't give a flying flip about what I was already doing because it wasn't under a court order. And the support system was not making any fees off of my money that I was already paying. So what happened next? I recognized how if I didn't do something, I would go from my unlimited parenting time to one day a week and once every other weekend. Wow, how's that a deal for someone who wants to be an active parent? Reduce you from unlimited time to no time to essentially being blocked out. And then I said, well, tell you what, I want joint physical, joint legal custody and I want my parenting time entered in the order and eventually a temporary order was issued and it raised my support payment to 40% of my net take home pay. Now I'm trying to paint a picture here that this didn't do well for a guy who was responsible, who was doing the right thing and picking the wrong woman. I owned up to my responsibilities and when I got that order, it also reduced my ability to see the child down to once every other week and once every other weekend. And I was like, well, by design, you know that was done to set the support payment to a maximum and not really leave me with any resources to do anything with the child whenever I had the child and then the mother started interfering with me seeing the child on the court order days. Eventually I end up calling the police, getting the police involved and the officer says, sir, I sure wish a lot more men did what you did. You called us up front, you brought us your court order and I'm sorry to tell you, sir, Mr. Smith, there's nothing I can do about this. This is a civil matter and you're going to have to take it to court. Eventually, I had a discussion with my pastor's father and he says, you need to take a paternity test. Huh? He says, I've seen this kind of thing happen to many military men. He was from the Air Force. He talked to me about the Dear John letter scenario, how men lose family resources, et cetera and you need to take a paternity test. So I agreed to take this test fully expecting to show him that I was indeed the biological father of this child and instead the results came back at 0.0% that I was not the father. Gentlemen and ladies, I have been framed for a pregnancy that I didn't commit and I had legally admissible evidence to prove that I didn't do it. But by the existence of a baby, somebody did it, wasn't me. This led to a journey of battling through the courts over a five-year period, child support lawsuit, two bench trials, appeal to the court of appeals in the state, appeal to the state supreme court and then an appeal to the United States Supreme Court because I believe that a fraud had been perpetrated on me, on my family and on the child. And by the way, what sane man would take the deal to pay child support for a child is not his that he can't even see. Think about that for a second. What do I get out of this deal? The right to pay and shut up so they thought. But there's this rebel in me that says I'm not going to be silent about this, I'm not going to be quiet about this. So while I was appealing, I recognized that men and boys who were caught in this situation have an extremely difficult time if they can't afford to put down a $25,000 retainer to bring in their own legal hired gun to help them fight back. And my attorney told me we had less than a 10% chance of winning with two DNA tests proving that I didn't do it. We subpoenaed the mother and her family members and only then did we find out she actually got pregnant six weeks after I broke up with her. That is not the story that she told. How do you have less than a 20% chance of winning when you can prove you didn't do it? You can prove the other party knowingly and willingly concealed material facts from you that affected your participation. And what are those facts? I'm going to tell you why I call it paternity fraud. Paternity fraud is a lawsuit typically brought by someone like the child's mother or the legal guardian of the child to collect money, benefits, assets, property while at the same time concealing material facts that there are multiple paternity candidates or they know for sure that you didn't do it. Think about that for a second. The way the law is working to the United States and for every country that adopts this type of process of child support to get money established is that any man or any boy accused of being the father of a child is at risk of paternity fraud even if he didn't know the mother even if he never touched her for one fatal reason. Here's the flaw. The flaw is there is no proof required to be filed by the mother or the legal guardian. There's no proof required that you did it to be submitted with that lawsuit against you. So with that being the case I'm going to show you how there's actually four ways that I've found out and have many clients and victims that have found their way into paternity fraud including men who didn't know the mother at all. Men who had similar names to the biological father but it wasn't him, it was the other guy to many married men on my YouTube channel to many military men who are victims of a thing called incorrect default judgment. I'm doing these presentations I've been doing these for a couple of decades and my whole goal is to help make this trap so transparent that Ray Charles and Stevie Wonder could see this thing. And my hopes is that you'll take something from this presentation check me out, connect with me and share this with people who have sons. Share this with men who are going through some difficulties and challenges because as bad as it is to pay significant portions of your income for children that are yours that you are not allowed to see and actively thwart it from being able to be an active parent how much worse is it to find out that they're not even your kids? Can we say that is the ultimate punch in the face? And then for someone to tell you there's nothing you can do about it and you may as well be quiet you should just lay on the train tracks and take it. I mentioned that I took it to the U.S. Supreme Court they had two meetings about it and the justices finally sent back an answer to me because they wanted to know about something else that I'd done. See at the same time I was doing that I talked to my legislators because I recognized this to be a trap and as less the law was changed to recognize the substantive rights of men and boys to not be forced you can be forced into surrendering assets, property, cash for another man's child against his will a child that he didn't adopt that he didn't participate in assisted pregnancy in vitro fertilization you know like when okay the guy know I can't create him so he knowingly signs up to let his wife get some from the sperm bank so he knows right up front not his biological child well in those scenarios that guy's not a victim right? it is called truthful disclosure up front well I lobbed it for legislation and I managed to get a bunch of victims to come out and support the issue because the more I talk the more people found out there was somebody doing something about it and it had happened to them or it happened to a friend, a family member someone who was so distraught and devastated that some of them have gone on so far as to have like one of my clients commit suicide over being devastated by the family court well I was successful in getting legislation passed when people told me there's nothing you could do about it well in working with the many people and supporters we got the bill passed through the House of Representatives 163-0 how's that for nothing could be done about it then getting the legislation to the Senate thank you thank you my hope is to inspire some more people to become advocates for the other states I've only worked in about 11 states and helped others they got 11 of them changed through my efforts and I said you know what I can't go to enough states to help make this happen we need to get some more people involved because you don't have to be a victim to be an advocate for truth to be an advocate for supporting men and boys to make sure they don't get their lives derailed and taken off mission for something that he did not do dang it's enough to just say to us guys you know you should be responsible right you want us to take ownership of stuff that we're supposed to do right well how do you in clear conscience tell him he should own up for something somebody else had fun doing I'm like hold on wait wait wait wait if I didn't have the fun I shouldn't get the bill right that's reasonable but what else happened when we got the legislation to the senate 45 to 5 and the governor who is of a different political party I happen to be a fiscal conservative who votes Republican and that pisses some people off but guess what you don't get to tell me how to vote I don't get to tell you how to vote but this issue was a human rights issue it wasn't a partisan issue it wasn't a political issue and it sure as heck wasn't an attack against women as many of the opponents who try to cast the issue of men lobbying for DNA testing and men lobbying for laws to make sure that no men or boys are trapped by law they say that we are weaponizing DNA against women I'm like that's bull feathers this is what you're trying to do is take us off mission cause the truth of the matter is paternity fraud can't happen without women and girls lying about their sexual history don't blame me when the truth comes out and reveals that a wife has 5 boyfriends that her husband doesn't know about the DNA test is not the problem here or the fiance whose boyfriend is working and saving up money for their wedding and she gets pregnant and then she dupes him to believe the kid is his he didn't do anything wrong other than choose her right so how do we blame the men and the boys and the ultimate success out of this is that I hope by my story and by me doing the national stories is that it would inspire hope in the men and the parents of boys that there was no reason to accept this injustice be quiet about it and just try to pay the money and hope that we leave them alone now there's this quote by Frederick Douglas that says that power concedes nothing without a demand I wasn't asking to let the hostages go I was demanding that they let the hostages go and that we should close the door on this trap cause it was a lot harder to trap men and boys on a trap that has the light of the truth being shined on it cause then they can avoid it right that what I think it should be done and clear thinking people have agreed with me for over two decades that I wouldn't want this to happen to my enemy and I'm in agreement with them so I'm just sharing that to say when people say there's nothing can be done don't believe it doesn't take a ton of people to get something done it takes a few committed people who are committed to the mission to work together with a clear goal and they might need some expert help and since I've been doing this over two decades I might be able to help them shortcut the process to the path of success and for those that I've been able to work with people who are coachable, teachable and willing to follow a mission that has worked we've been successful in getting it done in over 11 states I think that's a compelling success to what started out as people telling me there's nothing you can do about it the problem it happens to enough men and boys internationally that it should not be allowed to just have men silenced and cancelled for talking about it my position is very simple men and boys have zero responsibility to financially support children that are not dares that they did not formally adopt or participate with his permission in assisted pregnancy they're like well dang you know that sounds like common sense am I being unreasonable I think not now our opponents on the other hand they think that is somehow a dig against women I say it's not I'm gonna tell you about who's affected men boys and women are affected and the children are affected now you're like well how can women be affected the largest group of people who support me for help trying to get a remedy for the situation are the women who are in the life of the guy who is a victim he is often trying to work to make the payments to stay out of going to jail and she is looking for help for him to try to get him out of the trap and some of these women through many sleepless nights they have had to go out and pass the hat throughout the family to raise money to get him out of jail cause when he lost his job guess what else happened next for failure to pay child support he end up going to jail for a child that wasn't his that he never wanted to be in the situation in the first place and if you know this woman if she's the wife of this guy and they have children who live with them guess who else is affected so you have a family become homeless because the breadwinner who was tricked by a prior relationship this person without their assets you now just left this whole family exposed to becoming homeless there are solutions I'm going to hit on some things that people who are opposed to it don't want me to talk about my hopes is that you'll talk about it help me get the word out about it and then ultimately it would be phenomenal to reach a point where there is nobody that could get trapped in this situation 30% 30% of the males who get DNA tested annually according to the American Association of Blood Banks which is the accrediting body for the DNA lab this is over 44 DNA labs throughout the United States they are testing close to half a million men per year and over 30% of them have been confirmed that he didn't do it 0.0% paternity now think about that for a second I have academia who are trying to discredit me and trying to say this is not that big a problem and it looks on some of your faces like I would think 30% is a problem if you were in any region and 30% of the people died from COVID or died from smallpox or some other disease or suddenly all of the kids in a school got sick and 30% of them came down with some virus or something wouldn't we think there was a problem and that rather than try to push this under the dirt we should investigate to find out what are the contributing causes to that but sadly because this primarily affects men and boys there's been attempts to try to discredit me to try to silence me and say well that's not everybody I didn't say it was everybody did I but through a dependent organization who does what they call the exclusion ratio see the exclusion ratio means of those people who got tested how many of them were excluded as being the guy who caused that woman's pregnancy like she said he did well hey 3 out of 10 turned out it wasn't him then that means we don't have 100% of the moms telling the truth right well then the problem is not the men who got tested the problem is laws that subscribe to the me too movement they say believe all women carnell smith says believe all evidence evidence should trump verbal claims if she swears that yes your honor and by the way in my talks I usually refer to the woman who commits paternity fraud she's cupcake by the way cupcake she comes in all forms shapes races you might even know cupcake but when cupcake submits her affidavit to the court she has this technique that makes what she says makes her unaccountable for it you see this I'm crossing my fingers so even though I swear or affirm to tell the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth since I have my fingers crossed behind my back and you guys didn't know I had my fingers crossed behind my back what I say doesn't really matter you're like come on man that stuff that but in the minds of these women and girls who I managed to talk to who committed this lie you would be surprised at the thought processes there amazingly they don't think there's anything wrong with three out of ten men and boys getting tested and they said to me well you guys shouldn't be allowed to get automatic DNA test it should only be if he thinks there's a problem and those women and girls they rely heavily on the look alike test you're like what lookalike test yeah the lookalike test is when she tries to get the guy to come real close get him to hold the baby and then they tell him how much the baby looks like him believe me if you if you look hard enough you can convince yourself of a lie that where you buy the lie and then you try to persuade and get other people to believe the lie so oh that baby's got your eyes oh look there and the guy's like I don't see it okay alright maybe let me put my glasses on and then they will use emotional manipulation you do want your baby to have a father don't you now how many of the guys faced with his family there her family's there and they bring him this documentation that says you do want your baby to have a father don't you is he going to say no do you know what some guys will act us and do they will reach in and sign this 18 year commitment authorization device you're like yeah but that's just a pen yeah and with his signature he will sign a confession without any proof to avoid an embarrassing moment for the child's mother well guess what Cornell says you shouldn't be concerned about her feelings you shouldn't be concerned about her emotions you need to know the truth brother and you need to know the truth right up front the sooner you know the truth you can make an informed decision about this relationship and the facts you're like well dang that makes a lot of sense so why would the radical feminist be opposed to your position Mr. Smith well gee then they couldn't get any money out of the deal then they couldn't manipulate and strong arm this guy for decades in court and impoverishing bankrupting devastating and emasculate him there's no benefit in this for him 30% in my opinion is an indication to carnell smith as an engineer we should do more data samples not ignore the thing so in my crazy radical way of thinking you know carnell smith you know cupcake a number like 30% is that we need to get all of your friends and your associates we need to get all of them to participate in testing with you however I would like to make it such that it's not optional I want to make it such that you have to participate or you don't get any money and you know what cupcake says this is not fair this is an attack on my character cupcake if 3 out of 10 guys who get tested he doesn't have a character problem you do guys this kind of radical thinking is what got me in trouble to where the feminists tried to get me banned from the international convention of men's issues they don't want this exposed they don't want this to be talked about but in the area of the sexual revolution where more and more women say if the men can do it we can do it too I was like yeah you go girl you certainly can however there's two components to equality that you are overlooking and leaving out equal accountability and equal responsibility and I don't think we should leave it up to you we should have it mandated that since you say you want equality you got about a whole package what you want to enforce on men is equally accountable to you you want men and boys to pay child support 3 out of 10 tells me that a lot more men should be tested and boys just based on the accusation and I think we should help them get the truth it would help to know what are the four ways that men and boys find themselves in this trap one you heard me hint to it sign confession sign confession and that is him signing a document called the voluntary acknowledgement of paternity the paternity participation program you notice all these little cute words right in short though all they mean is he's going to have the right to pay with no say and he has no legal rights to the child but signing that confession that says I did it without proof is all that's needed to then take him to court and forcibly extract money assets for 18 plus years or longer and by the way if the child is handicapped or otherwise physically disabled and unable to care for themselves or likely to be unable to care for themselves that is for lifetime so in the mind of Colonel Smith the stakes are so high that he needs to know the truth when in the beginning number two incorrect default judgment would you believe me that anybody here in the audience in the United States or any country that models their laws after the United States a lawsuit can be filed against you to establish paternity and set child support for any kid they'll put your name down and if for any reason that you don't make it to that first hearing a decision will be made using this sign you up authorization device in the hands of a hearing officer and a judge this device can get you authorized to pay for 18 plus years for a kid you don't know that's not yours from a woman you never even touched why? because your name came across on the paperwork and then you didn't show up the military men who were deployed out of state or out of country how do you come to a hearing that you don't know anything about because the child's mother put her address down to have you served think about that for a second guys so what's the likelihood you're going to be able to legally defend yourself against this false lawsuit so because you don't show up at the court for any reason and yes there are times that guys say man, yeah I know her but we never even dated so they'll straighten this out and unknowing what the effects will be to him he doesn't go to the hearing and by the power of that pen that hearing officer can make him be the legal father and then will not allow him to get a DNA test later well you didn't come to the hearing there buddy and since you didn't show up because you were trying to dodge your responsibilities request for maternity testing denied and by the way you better have our money by Friday did y'all catch that you better have our money by Friday the next one is marital presumption you're like what? marital presumption yes, yes in many countries and states if you are married to a woman any children she has while she is married to you are automatically presumed to be yours and it is treated as a conclusive presumption I didn't say rebuttable conclusive so because that woman said you did it and you're married to her even if you guys are legally separated or how about this you're deployed you have an occupation where you travel out of the country or whatever and she got pregnant while you weren't even in country you had no access to her but because these laws exist you become legally responsible for every bit of the fund that she had with her boyfriend and in this age of no-fault divorce guess what else can happen it is a compounded problem using the power of a no-fault divorce you can be thrown out of your house child support lawsuit filed against you you get to pay alimony you're going to pay child support and because you got thrown out of the house guess who gets stuck with the bill all of that where is this a good deal for the guy what did he do wrong not a blessed thing and the last one is mistaken identity you can be incorrectly tagged because you can get a combination of mistaken identity and incorrect judgment working together and a person whose only fault is they happen to have the same name as your biological father and you're like these kind of things don't happen oh yes they do yes they do I'm a victim of number one see when I was asked to sign the confession nobody told me what happens to you if the other party the kid's mother is not telling you the whole truth because see I didn't know she got pregnant six weeks after I broke up with her if she would have only mentioned that oh by the way I'm actually been flipping the quarter to see who I'm going to tell is the baby's daddy but you you know you had two cars you had a house you were engineer and you had a side business where you had eight crews of DJs working for you the baby's daddy did you guys catch that so sometimes the economics of the most attractive candidate gets him selected sometimes it's the guy she's in love with at the time you know Mr. Right Now what about the guy that one night stand well she doesn't even remember his name but you're the responsible guy you know that guy who's dependable you're working toward a goal you're working on a mission so rather than go track down Mr. Guy she had to find with at the party who's the guy that's going to get tagged Mr. Responsible now all of these things right here are so unjust and unfair they are correctable they obviously must be some solutions available and the more I press for legislation you wouldn't believe the amount of opposition the national organization of women sent representation to protest against my legislative bills that I propose and recommend it and I was asking them wait a minute why does it matter to you guys some of the alphabet groups actually put in a word of opposition toward paternity fraud legislation and I asked them why does this matter to you you guys can't even have kids so everybody there's a lot of opposition to reforming legislation that would ultimately provide that group of women who say they want equal rights it would provide them with the avenue to be equally responsible and equally accountable how could you possibly be against what you say you want you do know I'm being sarcastic when I do that right I never debate with them privately I like to get them to debate their position in front of a television camera because their sheer pretzels logic exposes them in such a way that it is indefensible before the legislators so that kind of helps you know expose the situation what's the impact I'm going to tell you why some of the guys will say you know what man with what that can do to me taking that DNA test up front is an investment in my peace of mind 300 to $500 for a legal DNA test up front could avoid someone who's on the lower end of the economic scale paying $200 a month will hack over 18 years at 10% interest $120,000 the DNA test doesn't cost that much and if he takes the test and he's not the guy I think that $120,000 over that period of time belongs to him should stay with him and anybody who wants to take it from him should kick rocks that's my opinion let's go let's advance it up to like you know where I was in this territory between the 1400 1000 a month if you're paying 3000 a month in child support over 18 years at 10% interest that's over $1.8 million dollars can we say this is a big deal to the men who are having the right to check by the way they don't allow you to write checks so when you get the child support court they issue an income deduction order they take your money they send an order to your employer and they take your money right off the top so you know and charge you a fee for the right and the privilege to participate that you didn't volunteer for and for the higher end income guys like our athletes entertainers people who might have legal means to where they can pay $15,000 a month now people who illegally make this kind of money they're not really worried about this I'm just saying he sometimes takes some other avenues where he no longer has a child support problem I'm not endorsing any of that I'm just merely saying to you if he gets the test results at 0% he takes the matter in his own hands I'm just saying I don't endorse that alright but for the people who paying $15,000 a month over 18 years at 10% over $9 million so think about this question does it matter to the guy who stuck with the bill what the facts are yeah for many of them when presented this way now think about it if you told him this right up front when they were trying to get him to sign this document and we gave him a paternity Miranda warning yeah what would that be you have the right to a paternity test however if you believe her and cupcakes over there pleading with you don't take the test you don't trust me I'm telling him do ignore all that crap she's saying cause she may have an agenda behind trying to persuade you out of not taking that test so what you need to do as part of the Miranda warning understand this if you believe her it can and will be used against you later in that court that's not a court of law family court is a court of equity where the judge can exclude your DNA test result the judge can exclude your request to get a DNA test you're like dang doesn't that sound rigged it works so well that it cannot be accidental that it works this way it is effective in turning men and boys into income producing property for the state hold on guys there's another word for income producing property it's called slave you just turn those men and boys into wage slaves and by not giving them any avenue and actively thwarting their attempts to get out of the trap you've effectively ensured that you're going to continue to make money off of him there's no benefit in this for him what's the impact men and boys who work in a legal capacity they pay for services well guess what those taxpayer funds there are no services provided for men and boys in a paternity fraud situation there's no legal help available if you can't afford it and guess what if you're losing significant portions of your income guess what you don't have in the ability to hire your own legal help you have no money so then what do you do for a lot of these guys it becomes a helpless hopeless situation what we're finding is that these men have varying degrees of emotional mental financial harm after discovering that they've been lied to or misled about the paternity of a child they're shocked stunned paralyzed in disbelief and guess what follows that anger depression anxiety and then for one of my clients suicide he married the love of his life he married his high school sweetheart and what he thought was going to be his great life he was going to do the happy ever after on his daughters shortly around his daughter's 16th birthday he was ready to move on and she filed a no-fault divorce on him and oh by the way little Susie is not yours he helped us get legislation passed in the state of Oregon and he didn't take my advice I told him man please don't isolate yourself don't keep yourself alone you know what we tend to do as men sometimes we try to tackle it by ourselves and him fighting against the legal system without any experience without any knowledge and no help found it extremely difficult and challenging he isolated himself and then he took his own life that's part of why I still do this over two decades later and by the way I won I won using that law that I wrote I was the first person in my state to win using the law that I wrote what does that do for people who say nothing can be done my hope is that it'll inspire hope it'll inspire some more activists it'll inspire some people to as the pastor Jeff was saying some get some gravitas and if I also say this get some brass on your cajones you hear what I'm saying help people step up to the plate and find out how to strategically fight back but guess what else happened many of those guys are homeless cause they've been financially devastated that leads to drugs and alcohol use as a coping mechanism because he's so swamped and believed there's nothing that can be done he drinks and takes the drugs to try to feel better but guess what happens when the highway is off the problem is still there he goes in and out of jail prison credit ruin, job loss business loss no driver's license and financial asset sees how is this a good deal for men and boys it is not and there's no way we can make it one right the victims which is what I found over two decades military men are targeted they are a hunted cause there's financial benefits from his service men's life insurance the benefits and guess what if you can get him tagged on a border and he dies those are benefits for life for the kid and plus the bonus is you get to get the money off of his service men's insurance sterile men have been ordered to pay child support one of my clients found out that none of the children from his first marriage were his none of the kids from his second marriage was his none of the kids from his girlfriend were his so at my insistence he goes to see a urologist to get a semen viability test he was horrified to find out there were no swimmers in the pond y'all getting what I'm saying are you hearing me there were no swimmers in the pond unknown to him he had been damaged by his contact with agent orange during his service in the vietnam war and it left him sterile the state of texas still made him pay child support to those women how's that a good deal clergy I met five pastors who were paternity fraud victims from the first lady of the church the wife of the pastor committed paternity fraud one of the pastors he says a man in my church called me and said bishop I need you to get your name off my son's birth certificate I told your wife to tell you that boy is mine that doesn't sound like any kind of justice that I want to embrace the other group of victims executives, scientists professors, teachers athletes can you see why this group of people would be attractive to the people who are going to do wrong how about this actors, musicians, politicians law enforcement correctional officers fire rescue, border patrol plumbers, carpenters construction workers, mechanics, truck drivers doctors, attorneys engineers, accountants, pilots and then this last group of the kids all all men and boys blue and white collar you're like dang that sounds like nobody gets a pass that's exactly my point what are the solutions currently the way the systems in the united states and the other countries who model their child support enforcement systems their solution is this ask the mothers to be truthful about paternity bypass DNA testing so they came up with this paternity confession document and then insert a waiver in the document in the small print that says by signing this you waive your right to a paternity test and you waive your right to challenge the judgment later how is that a good deal for the men and the boys unknown time limits many men and boys don't know that you have a time limit from 60 days as little as 60 days after you sign that confession if you don't figure it out then by the 61st day you are trapped and then for those married men there are states that have a time limit from age 2 to age 5 if you don't figure out that you've been married to cupcake and that cupcake was well she was single and you were married did you guess that she was married in name only so you were out of sight she was single and she did what single people do she was single swingle mingle all of that she did it all so well that they said well but here's the thing your honor this is what cupcake says your honor he didn't figure it out in time the law says he has to challenge maternity before the 5th birthday your honor the kid just turned 6 I tricked him fair and square and it's his fault he didn't figure it out guys that don't sound right to me doesn't sound right to you and by the way you have to actively look for these time limits they don't reveal this to you at the hospital when they're trying to get you to sign the document you won't hear about the time limit on this when in the child support office they're trying to get you to sign into the program where you do want your child to have a father and then you will actively work against you in challenging the judgment against you why did carnell smith have to appeal all the way to the united states supreme court making a constitutional argument that the court should not have the authority to enforce an order against a man that it had originally believed was the biological father and he had been led to believe he was the biological father and then subsequent DNA testing proves he did not do it that only leaves one conclusion if he didn't do it somebody did right and we know for darn sure it wasn't immaculate conception that's the only happened once and it won't happen again my solutions are like this by the way they don't like me pointing this out I don't care I figure if I expose it then somebody among you will help share the news share the word I think we need to have a PNA a paternity notification after David that means everybody that cupcake had relationship with within the 60 day window that's 30 days before the child's conception date and 30 days after the child's conception date she has to provide them with a sworn after David that acknowledges that she was involved with multiple people she doesn't have to give the name she just has to admit under oath that you are only one of the possibilities and do you know that if she had to tell her husband that he was one of six possibilities that man was most likely going to want to take a DNA test if she had to sign an after David like that her boyfriend would want to take a DNA test and put the DNA test at birth then we don't have to ask cupcake well girl who's your baby daddy hold on a second let me get my fingers crossed um well she looks like you that's not good enough but if we do DNA testing at birth guess what we would ensure that the right names got on the kids birth certificate and we would ensure that the people brought home the right baby from the hospital like you know man that's just that's just radical yeah I know I know I can take it but what they're implying is well biology shouldn't matter when you designate who the father is but when women have had their baby swapped at the hospital and they went home with the wrong baby hospitals got sued people got fired know why cause biology mattered when we were talking about women we don't get to pick and choose equality that you girls said you wanted it mandates that the men should get a chance for the truth the boys they should get the truth these time limits I say let's get the time limit to be the same as that you as a woman get to file a child support order women can file for child support at any time all the way up to 18 this is how men get charged with child support for 17 year old and he gets retroactively charged for back child support for a kid he just found out about and if he signs the confession he's stuck and trapped by law I say he should have the same amount of time to get the truth restitution should be automatic you know if cupcake knew that when she got caught she was gonna have to give the goods we're gonna put her in a job training program so she could work off her bill and by the way she would automatically be enrolled for probation so that should she decide she doesn't want to work she can get some time to think about it and a six by nine sale has amazing powers to do this mind transformation on people you know it can make people rethink what they did wrong you hear what I'm saying and then national law we should have reactive law that frees 100% of the victims who have been alleged to do it but DNA proves he didn't do it DNA testing that birth let's eliminate the marital presumption because there are so many married women cheat look they don't think anything wrong with passing off their kids against their husbands and then killing them with no fault divorce law sign confessions let's just take that off the table we don't want to ask men and boys to sign anything else without proof why not let's give him the proof that he did it first and let him sit there and make the informed decision and now if the courts got proof he did it you can make a decision your honor that whether he signs up or not he's gonna be responsible I'm okay with that last but not least why should the states be trying to make money off of keeping that order on the books where they know they got men and boys being child support for kids that are not theirs in my mind it's an injustice that can be stopped it's an injustice that should be stopped I'm carnell smith I'm the paternity coach I advocate for men and boys here's how you can connect with me thank you what he represents is patriarchy we're here to do work as men as patriarchy there's nothing more natural than being a father