 Ha ha. All right. Hello. I see some new faces and new names. So I will introduce myself. I'm Mel Hauser. I use she they pronouns and I'm executive director here at all brains belong Vermont. Welcome to brain club. Let me share screen. I'm not even going to bother closing the other 40 tabs that are open because I think it's okay. Kind of. Okay, really be on the right tab. Okay. All right. Share. All right, so this month at brain club. And for those who are new to brain club, this is our weekly community conversation on everyday life stuff. So spring cleaning we mean in the metaphorical sense, we're like actually not cleaning. I haven't actually cleaned anything and like whoever knows how long we're talking about, you know, metaphorically shedding of ideas. It's a month long different each week like what no longer serves you. What are some old ideas or some old habits or some old ways of seeing the world that are not really working, which is, you know, we have this conversation. Every week at brain club we just call it something different. So anyway, but this week we're going to be talking about what no longer serves us with regard to education. So just before we before we jump into the topic and I introduce our panelists, so we're joined by our community panelists this week. Just some introductions. So all forms of participation are okay here. You as many of you have figured out already, you can have your video on or off. Even if it's on we do not expect anything of you we certainly don't need you to look at the camera, you know walk move fidget stim eats leave come back and everyone is welcome. And all communication is okay. You can unmute and use mouth words you can type in the chat you can gesture you can do all the above. I'm going to talk a little bit about language. You'll hear me. If I use if I use this term, which I'm often speaking about my own identity so I use the term autistic, because I am autistic and it's part of my identity, and you may hear other people speaking about their neuro type in terms of identity first language, you may also hear people talking about their neuro type in person first language and so you're welcome to speak about speaking with whatever terms about your own identity are comfortable for you. Because certainly it's not a it's not a one style it's not a one size fits all for anything. So he comes first here at brain club. So in addition to affirming all aspects of identity. It's really important us that we respect and protect one another's access needs what everyone needs to meaningfully and fully participate. And whatever that means to them and on our next slide we're going to talk more about that. But the last thing I'll say here is that just as a reminder this is an educational event it's not medical or therapeutic event so individual traumatic experiences are best process and therapeutic of which brain club is not so back to access. So, because we all have different brains who communicate think learn process differently. In order to create space and time for a broad range of communication access needs. We may periodically pause to just give, give space for for people to enter the conversation if they choose to. There's no pressure at all to directly communicate during during brain club at all observation is a completely valid form of participation. And there may be people who want to share some ideas, but if the conversations like ping pong into quickly it's hard to like insert oneself into conversation that's why giving processing space and time is important. So we will do that. Last bit of access closed captioning is enabled, you just need to toggle it on if you'd like to use it. So depending on your version of zoom, you can click either the live transcript closed captioning icon. And if you don't see that try the more dot dot dot and choose show subtitles and you can do the same. If you change your mind, I'd subtitle to turn them off. Okay. So what no longer serves us in education. So, I'm going to share a quote that Sarah pulled for us from John Holt. Children learn from anything and everything they see. They learn wherever they are, not just in special learning places. I think as, as we reimagine so many things. It's a it's the invitation might come from just rethinking what what education is about. And as we think about reimagining the default part of that is is is learning from kids kids have a lot of really amazing ideas and I think that one of the one of the things that we will hear one of the themes that I think we'll hear from our panelists because they're they're all returning panelists are very, very thrilled to have returning panelists today. And that that I think is one of the themes that we'll hear about. So, our four panelists today. So we have our asynchronous panelists. We have an important Vicky Sene educators from Turtle Island Children's Center. We have Anna house who is an early childhood educator, as well as a family coach. And Melissa Anderson, who is a social emotional learning coach here in Montpelier, as well as a special educator. So, I'm going to stop sharing and tell you a little bit more and like maybe what we can do is maybe I'll do the thing where I spotlight all of you as panelists and, and you can just melt. I'm going to put your camera down a little bit. We can't see like the bottom of your face well I can't, but I'm, yeah, what, what I probably need to do is raise my chair. We go. Yes, there you are. Yeah, it's an internal conflicting access need thing, because I have a desktop. And so, in order to be at eye level. It's this trade off because I'm actually I think I actually make people dizzy when I'm too low on the screen, because of like the, you know, the lines anyway so it's like this nonstop of like, can you see me know I have to raise you well I can't reach the mouse anymore but it's alright so it's like it's this it's this balance all day long. Alright so thank you so much for sure. Alright, so I am going to spotlight. Anna and spotlight Melissa. I think Jen does not have internet. Add spotlight. So maybe what we can do is, we can hear from Anna and Melissa, and then we'll pause and play a recording with Vicki and Cecilia, and then we'll have plenty of time for conversation. So, we can, we can, we can do any, any number of things. You know, I, I think that as we shift away from the idea of school being, you know, only one way to learn for students, I wonder like what do you think about that, and you know. Yeah, I have a lot to say about that. Also, I appreciated you sending the questions along that kind of gave me like, as I was writing down some thoughts when I was reading those it was really helpful and I think you're right the theme that I kind of came up with on my own so it's interesting Mel you mentioned is that the kids are the educators, which is why I think I love teaching and stay in teaching, because they come up with the best ideas so if you know how to elicit the answers and ask the right questions. Their ideas just, they blow my mind every single time I do a lot of restorative circles with kids, you know, maybe two kids gotten an argument on the playground or there might be a group of four people who are really struggling to get along and so we sit down we have these conversations using their restorative circle type model. And basically that's you sit down you talk about what the problem is, and then you brainstorm solutions and you pick a couple of them and really dive deeper into them. But I could not make up these things that the kids say, I mean that the solutions that they come up with are so kind they're so forgiving. They work, you know they they have ownership in them so when they leave the circle, they actually go back and implement the things that they come up with so, you know, it just my as far as like shedding of ideas. You know, I always thought like, I'm the teacher I have the experience I know what I can tell them that they need to do. But once I let go of that idea, I my mind was just opened up to these kids brains that are absolutely amazing. That is amazing and I would I'd like us to come back to the restorative circle concept, because I that is that is really cool and really interesting we've been hearing a lot about that from others over the last couple of months and anyway I'd love to come back to that because I think it's, it's really powerful. Anna, what do you think is there one way to learn. Well, I'm just excited to be a returning panelist because the first panel I was on with our brains belong was about my experience as an adult living with dyslexia. And I think that school was really hard for me as a kid because I was, you know, I was going through school in a time when the idea was to try to kind of, you know, sort of force around peg into a square hole, you know, there was there was only one way to learn. And I found a lot of coping mechanisms for that and being on the panel for all brains belong was one of the first times I had articulated some of that stuff, realizing how much I had created, you know, these kind of like, I don't know what else to call it aside from masking that's what you all have have taught me to call it, but it was like these coping mechanisms became the person was was the person that I became and it's taken a lot for me to get back to like how I authentically learn and how I authentically like to express myself. And that comes most naturally to me. And so, and I love love love love what Melissa said about the kids being the teacher because one of the, one of the things that transformed my life as a teacher and I want to start by saying, I remember very clearly in middle thinking, I will never be a teacher. Teachers are the worst. Right. And this was like at the height of my educational career of masking. I was like, they are awful. And then only like three years later I was like, want to be a teacher. So, so yeah, I have spent a lot of time in education and one of the one of the pivotal moments was for me was when I started to imagine, or kind of dismantle this old paradigm thought that like children are these empty vessels that need to be like filled with and so the teachers job is to like give them the facts. And that was kind of the hardest part for me growing up and learning was that like, all these facts were laid out for me to memorize. And the way my brain works it doesn't like file things in that clear, like memorizational order. I had to come up with a lot of tricks to recall that information. And I had to come now 25 years later I'm like, Oh, I know that stuff I know it deep within myself I don't have to memorize facts and figures, all these things that made me feel so unsmart. And so, you know, I only wish that I had a teacher who was able to see, you know what I now see which is that, in fact, children are these whole complete beings that just need the right soil and, you know, sunlight and watering are awesome like their own wisdom within them can can unfold when they give them spaces like a restorative circle and I also want to talk more about that. Because that just sounded amazing I wrote it down and I was like, wow, you know, like when we give kids the space it's like all of a sudden all this wisdom just pours from them. And I remember early on with my daughter who just turned 17. You know, she's like, this tiny little thing two and a half years old saying her found wisdom and we would say, How do you know that. Oh, I just know three years old I just know. You don't even know how to read. How did you know that. But now that I've embraced this concept it's like, I start to understand how her brain makes meaning of the world and how she knows it understands things and the more respect and recognition I give her to have autonomy in her own education. And that profound wisdom seems to just pour from her, her being. And so I wanted to close by saying my, my favorite book that I bought recently is titled, raising free people. And the woman who wrote it. I, I follow her on social media and I'm now also a member of her Patreon because I love all the content she's providing. And one of the terms that she's coined is called schoolishness. So she's like, how do we like, how do we examine our own schoolishness. You know, these kind of these ideas that we have around, you know, power over an authoritarian concepts of adults like, you know, having to kind of direct everything and how do we kind of unpack that and leave more space for, sort of more natural unfolding of learning as a lifestyle learning as a everyday occurrence. Thank you Mel just put the link to my website on there so I just I love providing resources for families who want to unpack this stuff within their households as well as educators. I just want to just like keep evolving with the ideas of how to continuously create more spaces for for kids to be in that, you know, in, in an environment in which they really truly feel like their brain belongs. I think that that's really special and we might see something that we've never seen before happen if we can really create those kinds of spaces. So thanks for inviting me to be on the panel. And thanks for recommending a book I'm going to recommend one as well. One that I wish that I could carry copies around in my purse and hand them out to every single person who talks to children. It's called Good Inside by Dr. Becky Kennedy. And it's just a really good resource for how to respectfully talk to kids and provide, you know, ask them questions and talk to them in a way that gives them the autonomy of figuring things out for themselves. So instead of, you know, the adult putting the parameters in place and saying do one of these things that the technique that and the way that she uses it is so respectful. And it's just, it's absolutely amazing. I've read it three times already because it's more for parents of younger kids, but I have teenagers. And just when I'm like, is this the book I really need? She'll say something in the book like you may think it's too late. It's not. Keep reading. So yeah, I'm going to check out your recommendation, Anna, but also I wanted to put that one in there. Thanks for post posting the link now. Thank you I love that one of my favorite phrases to just constantly come back to is I wonder, you know, I, it's my favorite thing is to instill the sense of wonder in every moment with kids. And, you know, even just being able, like you said, just the process of like asking questions and giving space and waiting for their answers. So anytime I find myself wanting to like insert my own opinion, I step back and I'm like, how can I start the sentence with I wonder. It is such hard work is such hard work as the adult to like bite your tongue and not insert yourself. I mean it's like very intentional and you have to think about it carefully every single time. And I would also say that when you say I wonder, you have to actually be wondering, sometimes I wonder is used as like a manipulative tool of like I wonder but like you don't really wonder you're just trying to like manipulate someone so as the parent of a PDA or and the PDA or myself. I can smell a bow. I wonder, like none other and so can Luna. Anyway, so Christina saying oh yeah now my daughter picks up on that right away. Yeah, yeah. You know what I'm going to do. I'm going to play the video from just from from Vicky and Cecilia are working with the, the tiniest of little ones like the under fives. So, let's see. So we're talking about education through the lifespan. So open. And then your screen quick with sound. Okay, so we're here today with with Vicky and Cecilia who both work at Turtle Island Children's Center. And we're talking today, Vicky and Cecilia about sort of zooming out. This whole month is about, you know, metaphorical spring cleaning kind of moving past some of the paradigms that maybe we grew up with. The training even was in and kind of learning how to zoom out and be the bigger picture. And I know that Turtle Island is very intentional about setting a space that feels welcoming for the children and the staff. So I'd love to hear more about that, you know, how do you metaphorically, you know, spring clean and create a space that's so welcoming. I think, you know, it's definitely something that needs, like you said, intentionality, and it's not something that happens overnight. And it takes a variety of folks working together. I think for me, the biggest part of it, whether we're talking about the physical environment or sort of the, you know, metaphorical environment is it comes down to respect for humans. So whether they're our youngest humans or, you know, teacher humans or any kind of human respect is sort of the first foundation that we work with. And that might look like respecting the child to enough to set up the environment that encourages their learning. It could look like, you know, creating a space where teachers are able to call the housing and development office if that's something that they need to do. Because we are all human and that's where we're operating from and there's all this interconnectivity so it doesn't make sense anymore to focus on the individual and perpetuate individualism. For us, it makes sense to work together because we're all connected as humans and to this earth. Yeah, and we, you know, with this topic of spring cleaning and what no longer serves us as humans and just as people in the world who have this idea that we are, we want to connect to humanity. We see children and people of all ages as human. It does require that consistent spring cleaning in our brains kind of like, and it does require I think assessing especially as like, you know, Cecilia and I are the administrators here and so we always have to question like our own behaviors, our own words, the things we're saying our own actions. And it is constant it like you said it's not a like one and done situation it's constantly assessing the things that I say like this morning you said, I had a moment where I said something to a child like, I need you to do this. And I caught myself and said, What, what does that even mean and they're, you know, and I've been doing this work for a very long time and still reassessing reflecting what am I saying what is my intention to those things match up and then do my actions also match with that. And it's like we've all been, well, you know, most of us have sort of received the same kind of ideas about the world through how weird we've grown up and still like how that's perpetuated through stories through media through school, you know. And so to get to the bottom of that it just requires I think lifelong work because it's so embedded. And, but as long as it's coming from a place of love, love for humans and love for each other, and compassion for yourself to, you know, because we could easily like beat ourselves up for saying the wrong thing or, you know, did I do that right did I, because it happens to me constantly and that's probably a good thing, you know, because I'm in practice with children with teachers. Sometimes I respond in a way that is not my ideal. Yeah, you know, and so I will reflect and there are days where I really feel bad about, you know, how I responded and I want to go back and redo it. Fortunately, as humans were also forgiving of each other and welcoming the next day. And so it's just kind of about that, the understanding. Sorry about that. No problem. It's okay. And the other, you know, I wanted to just reiterate what you said about that internal work. We talk a lot about, you have to put the oxygen mask on first. That idea of that I think also a lot of us have been part of society that does not invite us to reflect on our own moves and and to look internally and unlearn maybe if that's what's happening. And that is a really, really important piece and I think as caregivers, a lot of us can say we're really good at helping others with their needs, but we're maybe not so good at doing that for ourselves. And again, I think that's another thing if you are going to invite a child to join you in something that's respectful but you should be respecting yourself as well as a human as that human connection. Because we're all doing this together. And we, the thing that has felt really important about our, our space is that it's over time that we're having conversations together and we're collaboratively problem solving with one another or, you know, inviting the collaboratively problem solved. And it's a lot of connection it's a lot of constant talking and reflecting and making a different choice. Again, whether that's working with the children or for ourselves solving things. And I think for so long. It's a world that hasn't even invited us to like put our heads up to see what's going on and I'm excited to say that I feel more and more that that's, that's changing particularly in where we are and then this small group of brain club I feel so sort of inspired because I can recognize that people are really trying to examine these things that we've learned and say this doesn't serve us anymore and we don't have to deal with it. We can change it we can flip their perspective, because we have power and we do have agency as humans, and collectively we have much more power and agency to be able to do some of those things. Yeah, we ever since all brains came along or that we first learned about all brains I think we were just so jazzed because, you know, finally, it just feels like the conversation is being lifted up. Everybody is normal, you know, there is no normal or everybody and that feels so, so huge. We're up against so much. In terms of that great just having that idea and it's very sad, like that's not the common idea in the world but yeah, when I've been thinking a lot lately about, you know, an early childhood in this particular work. There are so many developmental stages that children have to reach, of course, according to, you know, what people came up with, many years ago, typically a white male scientist or whatever it was. And then there are, and then once they leave the early childhood realm they're up against these standards that they have to meet in order to move on to the next and all of these stages and standards and it's like, you know, these kids and they just want to live in the world that exists, you know, they want to do stuff that matters. They want to like have meetings with us about real things they want to put their hands and their bodies and minds to work. And here we are, you know, like, just, I'm just saying that because it's like such a huge force that we're up against in this in all of these systems that kind of crossover like the education system, there's all of those things. And we, and it's just like we just want to let them live and play and learn about their world that exists instead of coming in and saying, here are the things you have to meet in this world. By the way, this world doesn't work for most people, like most people can't afford to live in this world with a family, like most people are really struggling and but we're still saying that these are the standards we need to meet to live in this world. And the children I think they know better, and they're really teaching us a lot about that but it is a lot of we're just up against a lot of forces when we're trying to constantly do this kind of spring cleaning these ideas and in our mind. And I would say one of those things in particular is this idea, you know, bad behavior or these, you know, behavior problems that you hear and we, you know, we talk about this a lot. But from a perspective that respects that the child is trying to communicate something through that. They are humans and they are on this world that they have been on this world for a short amount of time so there are still things that we can offer to support them as they do this. So they shouldn't be experts in regulating their emotions or solving a problem on their own. That's one of the things I've found has completely I've completely flipped my perspective upside down on on behaviors and really looking them at looking at them as a communication tool. And I would say the same as for adults. There are some adult behaviors again that are really indicative of something else. And for us it feels really important to think about what's happening sort of at the root to make this behavior happen and then solve that, as opposed to throw a bandaid on the behavior or exclude a child because they're being physical or something like that. Yeah, it's kind of like that. I mean just as we've been talking about this with people struggling, even just struggling to afford to live or to buy food or anything like that. So just like if the children or if a child comes in and is struggling or maybe has a meltdown of some form, something's going on and we see them as struggling or needing support. We don't see them as bad or purposefully doing anything. And I think with adults to we have to see when somebody is behaving a certain way, or, you know, generally just like we can identify. Oh, maybe they're struggling and they need something and so that's how we approach it again just kind of like out of love and connection to this fellow human, instead of out of seeing them as sort of purposefully making a mistake or doing something wrong. I think that's the other paradigm that I've seen shift to is the sort of right wrong dichotomy, which isn't serving anyone because someone's bound to be left out and that's a very subjective. So, you know, just thinking, thinking more along those lines of supporting supporting that. Yeah. Yeah. No, that's beautiful. This has been a really great conversation. Thank you so much for helping us sort of zoom out and look at, you know, early childhood through with a paradigm shift, you know, on behaviors. I think it's really important work that you're doing. So, thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much. I will see you there. Okay. Lovely. So, Sarah, by the way, you are totally in charge of brain club interviews from now on. I can't believe you didn't have to edit that or anything. It was just like, I did. I, the hardest part was looking at the clock because I could talk to Vicki and Cecilia all day and they have such great points. I was, that was the hardest part. Yes. All right, hold on. Let's take the spotlight off so we can just open up conversation. And I'm curious because I know that there are actually a few, a few educators in the audience too. Anyway, just open up this conversation what's come up for folks what do you what do you think about these ideas. And I mean truly open to everyone, whether or not you're an educator, or, or, or a parent or have anything to do with children accessing education. I just want to hear from anybody. I just had an interesting conversation recently with my daughter. And she brought up the concept of power and it comes up a lot in conversations with educators and she had a lot to say about distribution of power. And she was saying how she feels sometimes that there's that, that every, she said everybody should have power, everybody should have their own power, and everybody should have power together. And she said that sometimes she sees like how parents or teachers or whatever seem to assume that they have more power than the kids do. And she said, you know, power is like when she wrote while they was skill is like, you know, somebody could be really powerful and one specific topic, if you give them the right topic but if you give them the wrong topic the wrong fit, they're really great at that particular thing so it's as she was like saying like, you know, just saying that like it, it, it seems like the teachers, or whatever, some person that sees themselves authority figures sort of handing down things to them that are ill fit and she feels like that the students should be able to assert their own power and and and like own it. So she was, this is the comment that she, she shared with me actually recorded the whole conversation because it was interesting but anyway she had a lot to say about power distribution. And she did. She's amazing. Um, so it's almost like she's talking about autonomy. Right so power over self right so if someone is power over you that interferes with your ability to have power over yourself. And that is what is happening. All over the place. So, and I agree Sarah Sarah says in the chat such a wise sweet little love you have. Yes, I agree. And I, I think and Melissa's adding that is similar to Anna's idea of children's mean being vessels to fill rather than individual beings who have ideas to share. David says yes to listening to the wisdom of children my granddaughter at age four or so went through a time when she'd answer most questions. I don't know with a great smile. Wonderful I fear she'll all too often begin to know and then eventually have to find a way back to not knowing. So beautifully said. It's kind of like a couple months ago, one of our volunteers who's a medical student Elizabeth Barker and I we did an interview, we did a podcast interview about neuro inclusive medical education. We talked about ableism and medical education but we oblique angled it. And, and, and we talked about how fake it till you make it, which is like really a big part of medical training and it's a big part of a lot of training and a lot of different fields it's a lot of it's like a big message of society. It's like so it's so unhelpful. It's so bad for brains it's so bad for society. Fake it till you make it interferes with someone being able to say I don't know. It is so profoundly important to say when you don't know. Luna and I, we've been watching a lot of super monsters lately that's like the new mini monotropic focus. And there's this episode where there's a character who's like pretending to know stuff so Luna says, why should to know she doesn't know. Oh, no. Melissa says I don't know is where all the magic happens. Absolutely. So, you know, it's it's it's interesting because so much of this wisdom is only able to be accessed when you give time and space and autonomy and all these raw ingredients for the sweet little loves being able to express their true goals, but they also need access to upstairs brain, meaning their cortex. We all need access to our cortex so like in my house, the language that that I will use sometimes is like, you don't have access to my cortex right now tell my husband that like on the regular. So so it's like cortex to cortex has to be communicating. And that's like not happening a lot of the time, as long as somebody is dysregulated in a dyad, a conversation's not going to be effective. And if anyone has thoughts about. Why is it that we are holding downstairs brain to upstairs brain standards so often. It's not just in school it's at home it's an old society but like it is definitely happening in school. I think I need you to say more can you say more about that in school setting. Yeah, so like if I'm a kid, and I am, you know, talking incessantly, or like or I, you know I have some kind of behavior, some kind of behavior and it's like well you should know better. You know, as though the kid has like complete control over the thing, because it's not like, I mean they didn't make a choice to do the thing choices come from upstairs brain a regulated cortex. It's mostly a lot of a lot of behavior is just communication of someone's underlying physiologic state, which is like I don't have my access needs met so I am under threat. I'm like, that's what comes out. It's the way of signaling to the people around you that you don't have your access needs met, and yet the shame that gets inflicted from about things that as though they were done with like you know, you know, I'm weighing the pros and the cons like this is the decision I'm going to make like that's not how it happens. Anna. Yeah, I think this mail connects a lot to what Cecilia and Vicki were talking about. Right, like they kind of like we're able to articulate a bit about how this can, you know, I'm reframing it in an early childhood setting. Because then you think at least then it's pretty obvious that like, I mean, child's only been on the planet for three years like they, you know, and they so they kind of use the language like they shouldn't they shouldn't have to we shouldn't have to assume that they have the skills to, you know, to be regulated or to regulate themselves that, you know, that as adults, you know, we can have this like opportunity to actually model for children what it's like to be regulated, and what why I think this thing that you're saying is happening in schools right, where especially in schools especially as kids get to be like second grade, third grade, fourth grade, fifth grade, and then middle school when their brains are like completely exploding and then all of a sudden everyone's like you should you should know better than this you're practically an adult, you know, there's like really they're just like giant toddlers. Um, but I think that some of the pressure comes and from the fact that actually the teachers are under so much stress that it can be really, really hard even for the teachers to get through a day feeling calm, cool, collected, regulated, like in that rest and digest, it just doesn't happen that often for educators, at least educators that I know, especially early educators because they're so poorly paid, they're, you know, they're often living with toxic stress in their daily personal lives and then that comes into the classroom. Um, and so it can be really, really difficult for us, you know, and actually heard Gabor Mate talking about this too with the medical right being in medical school is so stressful that you then become a stressed out doctor. And I feel like teachers are kind of in that same position where they're under so much constant stress and pressure that they get into a situation in which like the expectations are that everybody just like get their stuff together. Um, and so it's, yeah, they're just shaming and shitting all over each other. Um, and I think that, you know, again, coming back to what Cecilia and Vicki were talking about, I mean, it's so incredible to hear a director of a program talk about self compassion. Um, talk about, you know, what it takes to be supportive to their, their staff to create a supportive environment, no matter what people's needs are, really understanding that when we're, when we are dysregulated, right, there's an access need that's not being met there's a need that's not being met or that they're trying to communicate. And when we can give that compassion also to the adults. And I think that's really, really important and, and just one last thought that's been on my mind that I think needs to be like some spring cleaning attention on is that we also have a lot of our reactions a lot of dysregulation. You know, in these like knee jerk reactions or the phrases that just roll off our tongue that come from our past. They can be triggered, they can be triggered by someone who like reminds us of someone from our past as well. And I think that that happens for teachers a lot that a child might remind them of the bully that they, you know, were bullied by in elementary and so they're already making an assumption about this child based on past experience with someone who maybe looks similar or said something similar. And then, and then it's like, all of a sudden all of those like automatic phrases start coming out who do you think you are like get your act together with these things that we all heard so many times. And even with the best intentions sometimes. When you're in that triggered place, you know, through transference or something like that where you just have this haunting, maybe not even conscious memory of something that was really painful for you. It can be really difficult to be able to have compassion in those moments and those are some of the things that I think the majority of educators aren't taught but I'd be curious to hear from some of the current educators if there are any in this space, how they handle that kind of stuff. Yeah trauma lives in the body Milrow in the chat. Yeah. Thank you, Anna. I had a couple things that I connected with with what you said, and one of them is the stress that teachers are under just taking that perspective of thinking about all of the initiatives and all of the academics and all of the things that they're required to do the curriculum they're supposed to teach and there's not a lot of time in the day so teachers feel like they need to press through these curriculum. And I don't know if they, one, they haven't been taught some haven't been taught that it's okay to pause in a moment where you could do some reflection on some social emotional learning, you know, education, modeling it with the class. It seems to be like, it's like, okay, let's have a half an hour for guidance class or half an hour for social emotional learning and move on with our day and do our math and our reading and the social emotional learning and the understanding of our emotions and the responses to our emotions is something that really needs to be integrated throughout the entire day. And, and I really feel like most teachers haven't had the training on how to do that. And so it's just, it's a really hard place to be when they are thinking here's the expectation for me and I need to do this good job and teachers are amazing in trying to manage their time and do all those things but how can we teach them how to make those things more integrated and just the idea about kids do better when they can teachers also do better when they can as my role as a learning social learning coach when I'm working with teachers it's like you see the light bulbs go off and they're and I am explaining this is why we are saying it this is why we're doing it this way this is why we're modeling it this way. And they're like, oh, oh, this makes so much sense. I had a teacher in my office today crossing arms, he needs a consequence and I was explaining all this stuff like you just throw a consequence after the behavior has happened because he wasn't able to make the conscious choice if I make this choice and this choice that may not be the best choice. I know what my consequences you cannot implement that after the fact. It's like throwing out these tickets, you know that you didn't know you were going to get. And she kind of, I don't know if that makes sense for people but she kind of stood back and was like, okay, I see and I was like, now we can say if you call someone names. This is the, you know this is what might happen we'll have to do some repair work and this is what it's going to look like very clearly saying to the kid, you know, so that when they decide to make a choice to call someone a name or something they're going to know okay I made I called someone a name. Here's what's going to happen here's the repair work this is what it's going to look like. So teachers do better when they can but the problem is time so how when are they learning these things and when are they practicing these things and when are they getting feedback on these things to help them move forward in that. And to help them feel better, not so stressed out in school. And, and one other thing I just wanted to say before I pass to someone else is one of the things that I've come across is traditional ways of responding to unexpected behaviors are punishments and consequences and there's still quite a few people who are like well what's the consequence of this institution what are they going to get for doing this, instead of stepping over the behavior, really looking for what's causing the behavior to begin with what you, there's lots of ways you can do that one of them being CPS. Ross green collaborative and proactive solutions conversations with kids to help them share their wisdom. And what I've come across is kids come into my office or my space with me and I try to make it as warm and friendly as possible. And they're terrified, your kids who don't know me, they think they're in trouble, you know, they're their eyes are this big. And so I start the circle with like giving them some toys and talking to them you're not in trouble it's okay we're going to work through this together. And when we're done they they've calmed down but their initial response to having a conversation that's hard is, I'm in trouble, what's going to happen to me. You know, so I'm really on a mission to change that change that for kids. Oh that's all just so amazing to hear the other thing I'll add to what you've said about I mean it like, I can't even imagine what it's like to be a teacher. I can't even have two kids in my exam room at the same time without my brain exploding, let alone like just like the sensory chaos of most classrooms and because most people are not talking about sensory processing I think that there's maybe some, just even unrecognized impact of the environment on the adults in the environment and I put a link in the chat to an old brain club about this Hannah Bloom was an occupational therapist talking about stuff in your environment you don't realize is stressing you out. So just like just that that that is a conversation that I think I think needs to be had sensory processing is not just for kids with like an identified neurodevelopmental disability like we all have sensory processing systems we all have brains. So like this is something that I wish what I would like to see is that this is part of like talk like this is the part of preschool. Like, you know, Luna, Luna's grown up talking about her sensory systems like her whole life. And so I just, I think that would be an important piece of social emotional learning is like understanding how your brain works. I got so much out of you describing like all the different senses that go beyond like the five senses we teach kids like I could just imagine how valuable that would be first for educators and then for kids to learn about like all those different layers of our system that's taking in information. It's, it's just so empowering to understand that stuff. Thank you I absolutely and so you know this is, these are in ABB does a lot of educational trainings and so I can think of last year we did a training for an independent school about this stuff and specifically how to think about these topics with students anyway they they ended up creating like an experiential work set of workshops for their students in a K through for school about sensory processing because this like this impacts literally everybody. I'm going to put a link in the chat this is from our brain club on like discussing neurodiversity with kids. That's how you have all these brain clubs at your fingertips. Thank you. Well, it's only because of the brain club 2022 guide we had some volunteers to put this together. I'll put that in the chat to feel like a brain club we have this document open, like at the ready so something comes up and I'd be like control of neurodiversity and then it'll find there's a brain club for that. This is a brain club for everything once you have like you know we're 15 months into brain club like we got a lot of archives now. This is the whole directory. So there's a couple of things I just want to poke in right now which is that this thing, like, we don't all have to be good at all the things and I talked about this and reimagining education I think this is a big spring cleaning moment for us of like what does not serve us like we don't need every single child to get an a plus and every single subject like let's just stop doing that you know these and the standardized tests that came up earlier. And one of the things that made me think of that is because this idea of not knowing I got so used to pretending I knew because I couldn't bear to like have the embarrassment of being caught in the classroom not knowing that I find myself as an adult in conversations with people are like oh you know it's something really silly like oh this movie with such and such an actor like those are the kinds of things my brain doesn't categorize like I don't memorize those kinds of things. And I'll just say oh yeah yeah totally pretending I know what they're talking about and they'll be like oh you know that one I'm like no actually I don't actually I don't I've gotten I've had to like rewire my habit on that and one of the things that really helped is my kids like my kids in my classroom like my own children it they've helped me get more comfortable saying I don't know let's figure it out let's find out together. But one of the things my brain does awesome. So what you're saying like you just have a couple of kids and you're like I'm like 35 three year olds bring it on I'm ready I'm at the ready and it's because my brain like I love untangling knots. Like a jewelry box that's been neglected for years and has like 500 necklaces in it like oh yes I can like untangle them all and like figure out which one's which and like that's what my brain does in the classroom it's like alright I've got I've got eyes on like an ears on every student and I know just what they're into and I'm making observations and I'm creating, you know, you know, developing the environment so it's meeting everyone's access needs and I'm just like oh like all over the place and I, I get so fired up in those settings like I just love it. But not everybody does and that's okay. So that's how I tied all of that together but that's been a really important thing for me my my two kids at home my biological kids they are very different they they excel in very different things and it's taken us a while to say like, it's okay if you're amazing at math, your sister doesn't have to be as amazing at math at you she's awesome artist and she loves to write poetry and like, so that's what she focuses on you go focus on, you know, building things and calculating things. And then we know who to turn to when we need something built or calculated and we know who to turn to when we want some beautiful art. And we all have these amazing skills. And like so let's stop wasting time trying to, you know, figure out the things we're not good at. That's what I, that's what all I have to say. Thank you for that right I mean, like, like, or, like figure out how your brain works and then design your life in a way that works for your brain. That's niche construction. The term that Dr. Thomas Armstrong coined. That's, that's what we should want for anybody is to have niche construction and as Sarah said it takes all types in the village. Absolutely right that's why we this is like why we have all different brains I'm hearing this and I'm like, literally everything you just described as your strings are like my hardest things for my brain. I'm so glad that you exist in the world right so so that's that's what this should be about. And I think it's not just, I mean that frame applies to, to all humans right so if we spend all of our time trying to get people to do the thing that's power over that's the thing Christina's daughter nose is unsafe. That's, that doesn't serve anybody. So, as Sarah says spring cleaning education means helping each child discover their natural and unique gifts. Yeah, yeah. And I think also, you know one one comment that hasn't that sort of came up but that didn't really clearly come up yet. That is is around the self concept piece. So, if you grow up receiving the message that there's something about you that needs to be fixed or cured, or like significantly changed that takes its toll. You might you know you might be doing like you know well enough in school, but you're still getting the message that there's something about you that needs to be changed that stuff stays. It stays and has such. I mean, as a as a doctor who takes care of neurodivergent people through the through the lifespan I have so many adults who have such significant health problems stemming from the messages they got in grade school. And, you know, even, you know, even myself as an autistic person who like also happens to have this like professional lens of knowing about brains. I still inadvertently things fly off the tongue. So like Luna hums at the top of her lungs, and she like strains her neck muscles because she's humming so hard and she's grinding her teeth while she's humming, and this is what goes on. And so my brain has this big limbic response every time she does that. And even if I don't say anything. I am casting the energy. It's like the force field of like, yeah, unsafe unsafe because to my brain is unsafe because it makes me feel like my brain is going to explode. I can't not have that sensory experience. And I am giving the message that there's something fundamental about her that needs to be changed and I'm so furious at myself like all day long about that because I you know all I can do is put in your phones and hope for the best. And I think this is what goes on like all day everywhere in subtle yet profound ways. And as Melissa says as a mom to a teenager it's so hard without adding this message of it needs to be fixed it's intentional and it's hard work to hold my tongue. Yeah, yeah. And see the experiences this too. Yeah, it's it's it is so hard so it's like at least the cortical override to like oh pause oh don't say the thing, but to be aware, especially with our, with our nervous systems that have hypersensitive perception or threat detection. These are, these are our PDA or for example, who have, you know, you don't have to say anything. You know, we're porous to energy, I can feel your energy I feel your judgment I feel your vibe. And so that that is real and so all, all, all we do in my house about that is just like, try to bring some transparency and like, Luna, I just want you know, I'm having this response to the humming it's not because there's anything wrong with your humming. This is me and my access needs I'm gonna pop on some headphones. I love you I love you and I love your I love I want you to I want you to have all your access needs met, and you may feel my energy. This is about me and my my sensory processing experience and like that I think I mean I don't know but she says that she's not there. But I think if I didn't say anything, I think she might have cared. So what I would like to see is just just about everyone talking about their own access needs, as though they are, you know, my access needs matter just as as much as your access needs and vice versa as opposed to like, like, like Christina's daughter was talking about when there's power dynamics power over my access needs are become rules my access needs become policy my access needs become law. That's dangerous that's power over that's perpetuation of oppression. Anna, you want to close us out. I just, you know, as you were talking this, this thing is bubbling in me and I want to see if I can articulate it because so often I feel like when our access needs aren't met when we're kids. And we kind of end up with this like chip on our shoulder like well I'm don't I'll show them you know when I see it happen with teachers and I, and I feel it in myself as a parent. You know, in those moments where it's like, I, I actually feel like as an adult, like it's my responsibility actually to provide my child with their access needs and so sometimes I put that above my own, but then I can start to feel really like some resentment about it. And so one of the things that's been so key for me and this is, you know, something that I've had a lot of support with a lot of therapy around a lot of different pieces is like being able to like almost go back to my child myself and actually like offers that nurturing and offer that like I see you and I know your needs weren't met and like now, you know, like, almost like convincing myself that there's a new way to be with myself, so that I can better have those conversations because you're right that transparency is so important, but when it happens in a split second, and that resentment like flares up in me and I'm like, I'm going to get my needs from that. It's the last thing I do, you know, because it's been so many years that that need hasn't been met and the adults in my life kept reflecting to me for so many years my teachers my parents, you know that there was something wrong with me that needed to be fixed and it just, there's, it's, there's so many layers, there's so so so so so many layers, and the more that I've been able to do, you know, and again coming back to what Cecilia and Vicki said it's just just so important the more I've been able to do the work myself, you know, we, you know, give myself just the opportunity to even say I have access and then maybe see a future or a present moment in which they could possibly be met. It gives me like just that little bit more space to be with my kids in a more real way. Give them that respect, but I have to give it to myself first. Absolutely. And that is so there's a question in the chat around what is an access need and thank you for the question. So access needs being anything that anyone needs for full and meaningfully meaningful participation in their activity. And so if I if I'm a wheelchair user I have an access need for a ramp. But when it comes to, you know, first off, everyone has access needs not just people with disabilities. It's just that there are people who are more or less likely to have their access needs met by the defaults of society. So if I have the kind of brain that is really sensitive to loud sounds. If I enter a space where there's like, you know, fluorescent light buzzing, I know loud sound but it's like may as well be like, you know, anyway, or like today in my office there was some like alarm sounding and it like was sounding for an hour and like, I have an access need to that sound not beyond so I'm going to leave. That kind of thing. And Kat says conflicting access needs might be the need for quiet to concentrate and the need to bounce and hum to concentrate at the exact same time. Yeah, Luna and I we have conflicting access needs all the time. And in fact, actually when when I'm next week. I forget what we're calling it but where it's a it's it's neuro inclusive employment brain club we always it's always the third week of the month we talk about employment. And we're going to, we're going to be like taking the curtain down and we're going to we're going to show some clips of all brains belong staff meetings, working through conflicting access needs, because that is part of spring cleaning of like, at all times we have to both hold and express our access needs, and bring some transparency to when they're not being met and there's conflicts because that's like a healthy neuro inclusive workplace culture. It's not like it's definitely not easy, but it's just like a commitment to the paradigm that I think is the most important thing. So, so with with that we, we look forward to seeing you next week. Oh and Sarah is reminding me. Oh yeah what no longer serves you at work yeah that sounds like something we would call next week. Anyway, but it's so often we find because very few of us are at a workstation a computer that has access to an Ethernet cable, which is like when you're when you're streaming video. It's really hard if it's not coming through the Ethernet. So anyway, we are wondering if there's anyone who regularly comes to brain club that would be interested in like signing up for like, you know, a day here and there to be the backup person when our staff member who has an Ethernet like doesn't make it home from school in time picking up their kids or something like that. So anyway, if, if, if anybody is willing and interested and has access to a computer and like participate some brain club from a computer that connects to an Ethernet cable, or could connect to an Ethernet cable, we would be so grateful and I'll put our email address in chat.