 But first, Duvall is still reeling from Saturday's mass shooting by a white supremacist. This comes on the heels of the city council's finance committee raising questions about the necessity of a chief of diversity and inclusion for the city of Jacksonville, a new position created by Mayor Deegan. So we've asked Pravez Ahmed, chief diversity and inclusion for the city of Jacksonville to join us to share some insight about his role and how Jacksonvillians can try to heal and work towards ensuring something like this doesn't happen again. We'd like you to join the conversation. You can call us at 549-2937. You can tweet us at FCC on air. Email us at First Coast Connect to WJCT or message us on First Coast Connect's Facebook page. Dr. Ahmed, before we get started, I kind of want to go back in time a little bit because I tend to think, I believe, that if we look back at the past, we can kind of understand our present and our future. And the issues that are currently happening with Mayor Deegan nominating you to this new position and the city council kind of pushing back, this isn't new. It isn't. But before I begin, Al, first thank you for inviting me to the program. Dove right here. You just drove right in. Forgive me. Thank you for coming on. Sure. Sure. Absolutely. First, my heart is still broken from what happened on Saturday. I think our minds are weary. Our hearts are broken that these things keep on happening over and over again. It's intersection between race and poverty. We see this over and over again. It's also the intersection between politics and polarization. It's in that context that what the finance committee did made little sense to me. It acted on information that was incomplete. It created a justification for cutting what the mayor wanted to do with data that was not fully explained. And in some sense, the data was just incorrect. The finance committee made the assertion that the mayor's salary budget for her 24 staff members that she was entitled to nominate and have in her cabinet increased by 30 percent or some other number they asserted. But the real number is actually lower. To compare Mayor Deegan's staff budget to the last year of Mayor Curry's staff budget is apples and oranges. Mayor Deegan ran on a promise of change. Voters voted her into office despite she being outgunned in her campaign with campaign contributions two to one. The change was pushed by the voters for a reason. They wanted her to enact her agenda. She promised that she would appoint a chief of diversity and inclusion. She kept her promise. The city council should support her in that work. And what we saw on Saturday, I'm not saying a chief diversity officer was going to prevent that shooter. But when you look at what that shooter represents, it represents our politics of polarization. And that's what Mayor Deegan is trying to combat, promote a city that is united that is purposeful, where we create the culture of collaboration across our differences. Yeah, I think I guess the question that is in my mind and the reason why I wanted to go back to 2010 is because this all feels like it's a part of a continuum. It feels like the city of Jacksonville and not just the city of Jacksonville, but I would say America, the United States of America, that we do not want to think about the past and any issues that we have around diversity and inclusion. We want to pretend that they don't exist. Anybody that represents waving their hands and saying this is actually a problem that we need to talk about, they tend to get pushed to the side or shut down. Then when we have tragedies like what happened Saturday, then everybody runs around thinking like how did this happen and this can't happen in this community. But these problems are deeply rooted and have been in this community for many, many years. And the only way to tackle those problems is to actually look at it head on and dive into the abyss to try to make it right. That's exactly right. What happened just to provide your listeners a little bit of a context in 2010, about 13 years ago, I was nominated to be on the Human Rights Commission. There was a, I would characterize that as a bigoted and uninformed opposition to my nomination. But ultimately, the city did the right thing. City council did confirm me to be on the commission. I was voted back into the city commission again and I served two terms at the Human Rights Commissioner for the city of Jacksonville. But the process of that confirmation, the month-long process that it took me to get to the Human Rights Commission, made both headline news locally and unfortunately attracted negative attention from across the country. The same thing we are seeing playing out again. When the story of the shooting broke out into the national media, the national media did reference the city council's opposition to the DEI position. And the question is why? What is the reason for that opposition? All that position is trying to do is put forward a plan, a mechanism to fulfill a promise that Mayor Deegan made to the voters. How do we create a culture of collaboration across the differences? Jacksonville is a diverse city. Whether you like it or not, those are the facts on the grounds. It is a majority-minority city. Increasing it always had a large African-American population. Increasing growth among Hispanic and Asian population. So when I first came to the city 20 years ago, the city population was close to 65% white. Today the city population is less than 50% white. That's how dramatically in 20 years the city has changed. All Mayor Deegan is trying to say is, given that the city is diverse, shouldn't every voice be included and represented within her administration? Shouldn't her administration push for inclusion and equity? That's what the Chief Diversity Officer's role is, to be an advisor to the mayor, to reach out to communities. And in the few weeks that I've been in position, I cannot tell you how many times I've been to community events where I heard the same phrase over and over again. This is the first time the mayor's office has attended one of our events. This is the first time we feel seen by the city. That's what it takes to build a culture of collaboration, to see people where they are, to talk to them, to find out what concerns them and bring those concerns back to the city hall. I have a really good friend of mine who recently was an applicant for a job where he would be working in DEI, diversity, inclusion, and engagement. Equity. Equity. Excuse me. His role was specifically in DEI engagement, reaching out to people. And when he told me about this, I immediately told him, run. Do not apply for that job. I felt bad because I was very adamant about it. And the reason why I was adamant about it is because after George Floyd was murdered, a host of DEI work came available all over in every industry. I work both in public radio, podcasting, a TV writer, all of that stuff. And I saw in every industry that I touch that DEI just was everywhere. People were clamoring to do DEI work. Fast forward several years later, and almost in every single incident, the DEI position has been eliminated. In Hollywood, there was a day when four DEI positions at four of the major companies like Netflix, Disney, and a few others, they cut all of those positions in one day. It was almost like a coordinated effort. And so it seems to me that a lot of companies, a lot of organizations prioritize DEI work, but don't actually want to do the work. And then when finances get tight, they're the first person, the first people to get let go. Yeah. So Al, as you know, my background is in the school of business. I teach in the business school. My background is in finance and financial economics. So I look at it from that lens. What is the value added to a company when a company engages in work related to diversity? And the answer is unequivocal. Diversity for a company, an organization, a city, or a university to engage in diversity work, it adds value to that company. It adds value to that corporation, to that organization, to that institution. So for those who jumped on the bandwagon after George Floyd's murder, they're jumping off the bandwagon. But that was just a bandwagon effect. But those who started DEI work long before George Floyd, those who see, those who are level-headed corporate leaders, they continue to invest in DEI. JEEA has a DEI position. JTA has a DEI position. All hired recently. JTA a little bit longer, but JEEA was a recent hire. If you look at majority of Fortune 500 corporations, they still have their DEI position because those companies who understand the seriousness of the work, we are dealing with a workforce that is increasingly diverse. We are dealing with an economic climate that requires us to be nimble across different cultures. No company can avoid a FOPA. If you want to recruit the most talented people to work for you, if you want to create a culture of unity and collaboration and thriving in your communities, you have to lean into DEI. There is no arguing that we live in a diverse society. So the only question is, what are you going to do about it? Are you going to ignore that diversity and pretend it's not there? Or are you going to harness the diversity to make it a strength and a pillar of your success? That's the question Mayor Deegan has in front of the city. The voters answered affirmatively, they want to support Mayor Deegan on that one. Now the city council needs to follow up on that. So can you lay out for me exactly what you do in this position and how that impacts the city? So there are several ways in which my position will impact the city positively. So I'm of course only six or eight weeks, seven weeks into my job and the first part of the job is just still trying to learn what the city does. But in terms of the areas that have already been able to make impact, as I mentioned first, is reaching out to people in the community that have not been reached out to by city. I'll give you two quick examples of it. As you know in the city, we have a large Bosnian population who came to the city after the genocide in Bosnia. There are many survivors of the Sabernisa massacre genocide where 8,000 Muslim men were killed during that Bosnian genocide. So recently they tried to commemorate that horrific event and have a remembrance in their community center about that event. On behalf of Mayor Deegan, I attended that event, spoke at that event and the mayor issued a proclamation remembering the Sabernisa genocide. It was the first time they told me somebody from the mayor's office or any official from the city hall had visited that community. That community has been part of Jacksonville for well over 30 years. That's what it takes to build a culture of collaboration, bringing communities that have been forgotten, left on the sidelines and make them feel they're part of this vibrant, growing diversity. You can join the conversation at 549-2937. You can tweet us at FCC on air. First Coast Connect at wjct.org and you can also find us on Facebook. I think when you're talking about that example that you just gave me, it's so powerful and I understand it as a black man living in Jacksonville. I understand the value of being in a community and that community saying to you that you have value, that we see you. We understand we may not be able to completely wrap our head around all the struggles that you've gone through, but we understand that you are a part of our community and we celebrate that. The idea of your city celebrating who you are is a beautiful thing. I think what happens though is that a lot of the people who are detractors of DEI have never really been in that position where they are not celebrated by their community, where they have the privilege of being, for lack of a better term, the target audience, right? They're always at access. Right. They've always had access. They've never had to feel like they are the outsider in their city. And so I think it's a little bit of a leap. Like that's where the work is, right? Like helping people understand that just because you've always been seen doesn't mean that this community has. Exactly. So one of the things that the mayor had pledged is to build the city's boards and commission to reflect the diversity of the city that we live in. But we cannot achieve that goal by waving a magic wand. It will require us to make a concerted effort to reach out to communities like the Bosnian community, like the Filipino community, like the Vietnamese community. I was recently at a Ukrainian event. Again, war refugees. We have to reach out to these communities, make them feel that they are part of it and then motivate them to come and help the city. The boards and commissions are voluntary position. You want citizen engagement. One of the biggest complaints when I was in the Human Rights Commission is there was not enough citizen engagement. Well, part of what Mayor Deegan wants to do is change that. Get people more interested. As you know, on Saturday, Mayor Deegan, or sorry, on Sunday, Mayor Deegan appeared at the 63rd anniversary of Accidental Saturday. And she issued a proclamation for Accidental Saturday. Rodney Hurst, who was at the event, obviously, Rodney Hurst mentioned during the event that this is the first time somebody from the Mayor's office attended Accidental Saturday event, a commemoration, 63 years. Yeah. That just seems like I have no words. Like I literally have no words. One of the major turning points in this city and civil rights. And no one has shown up until this Mayor decided that it was important and valued. Yeah. And yesterday I was watching a new show and the new show led with the 63rd anniversary of Accidental Saturday. It is a defining event in the life of this city. It is. And we had Rodney on yesterday. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to talk to Mr. Hurst as long as I would like to because we were covering the the massacre that happened on Saturday. But the thing that strikes me about Accidental Saturday is I was an adult before I heard about it. It was not something that was taught or talked about. And I grew up here in Jacksonville and I didn't hear about Accidental until probably 2000 when they did the 40th anniversary. I think maybe that was the first time when the Times Union ran like a big story about it. And that's that's true because when this incident first happened, it was not on the front pages of the Times Union. Right. It was on page 15 of Times Union. Yeah. The local newspaper ignored it for years and years and years until they started amending it and running first base stories. Just a quick story on Accidental Saturday. As you know, before I took this job, I was the director of diversity for the Coggin College of Business a couple of years ago. I was appointed after the George Floyd when the university had an epiphany. They wanted to do more about DEI. Of course, all of that has been reversed with the new legislation from Tallahassee. But while I was in that position, one of the things that I tried to do was to expose my students to local history. Even business students needed to know the history of the community that they're part of. And one of the stories I had the students review was Accidental Saturday. And so many of my students who work downtown, they told me Dr. Ahmad, we work literally blocks from that place and we never knew this incident took place. That's how we have and now we have this whole saga of ignoring African-American history. Yeah. Teaching slavery was a job-straining program. Yeah. All right, we're going to go to the phones. We've got Stanley in downtown. Stanley, how are you this morning? Good morning, everybody. Good morning. I was six years old and I was at Accidental Saturday. I stopped at the Federal Reserve building when I saw women, African-American women, running and crying from down at the park. But my main concern here, we are talking about everything but what really matter in this country. We have a gun problem and for some reason we will not address that. But Donna Deegan is doing a good job. I have some other concern, but right now is not a good time because we don't have enough time. But everything she is doing is great for this city as far as bringing this city together here. But in closing, I'd like to say this, John Kennedy said we need to come together as a community and help the government. I can't get the words together here, but the difference in a good city and a great city is leadership. We have a leadership problem, but the community need to come downtown because I'm in the city hall 300 hours every year. And there's only two people coming downtown when it comes to civic engagement. Thank you. Stanley, thanks so much for calling in. We are talking to Dr. Parvez Ahmed, Chief Diversity and Inclusion for the City of Jacksonville. You can call in at 549-2937. I think what Stanley brings up, the idea of civil engagement and how if you want the city to be better, you actually have to do something to make it so. You cannot sit at home and complain if you're not out doing the work to make it better. Yeah, and we see that lack of civic engagement in our voting turnouts. When we have local election voting turnout is low. Yeah. And that's an indicator that people are not as engaged as they ought to be. But that needs a proactive approach to change it. One of the things that you may have heard it because you are also out in the community as much as I am, what is the most frequent complaint people say? The city hall, we don't care what's going on. They don't care about us. Yeah. And thus we don't care about them. Right. So part of my job and part of the many good people that Mayor Deegan has included in her cabinet is to outreach to the community. I'm not the only one doing it on behalf of the administration. I'm just the most visible target in that effort. Right. But there are many other people engaged in that uplifting the community. People are reaching out to nonprofit organizations. People are reaching out to churches, to religious institutions, to institutions that cater to our LGBTQ communities, to our veteran community, to the disabled community. We have diversity built into our communities, into our city in so many ways. So the question in front of the city, city hall, city council, the voters of Jacksonville is what are you going to do with this diversity that we have? In fact, what I would submit is my position is just the start of this work. It will require sustained investment and sustained engagement by the citizens of Jacksonville to change the story of Jacksonville. Here's a big question for you. How do we heal and go forward after an event that happened Saturday, after a tragedy that happened Saturday? I think we first, we start the healing process by telling the truth. And the truth is, as the caller mentioned, is the story of guns, the proliferation of guns in our society. Yeah, I think it's, I agree. I think it's multi-layered though. I think it's guns and race and race. And so both stories have to be told. Right. Now, with guns, because it's a federal issue, it's a state issue, city does not have a, city government does not have a lot of input on that issue. But on the issue of our fractured race relations, the city does have a voice on that issue. The mayor does have a voice on the issue. The city council can do something on that issue. That's what the mayor is asking the city council to do, to step up and not keep on ignoring this problem, showing up, just giving thoughts and prayers, and then moving forward the next day as if nothing has happened. Let me just pose this to you. There are many white families in this community who absolutely do not share the beliefs that the shooter had when he wrote his manifesto and the actions that he did. They absolutely do not share his beliefs, but they also don't think that this is their fight. What would you say to them? So I will say the rhythm from my own experience. After 9-11, I dealt with a lot of issues that were internal to my community. And among the issues that were internal to my community's radicalization of youth, the same method by which many people in the leadership of the Muslim community tackled this issue by confronting the truth. There is radicalization. It is incorrect to say this was a lone wolf shooter. It was not a lone wolf shooter because this person was radicalized by somebody, by some information, through sustained propaganda on social media and the Internet, and by messages from leadership trying to say that slavery was a job-straining program. Or we don't need to teach African-American history or we don't need to make people uncomfortable about our history. Well, our history is uncomfortable. And we cannot ignore that history and make people feel good about it. If we gloss over the truth, we only handicap ourselves because, guess what? People in kids in other states are not shying away from learning the truth. Who do we hurt in the process? Our kids in Florida have a competitive disadvantage because when they grow up, when they seek the top positions at the university for their education, when they seek the top jobs to further their careers, they're not competing from other students in Florida. They're competing from other students all across the globe and they're learning the true history. So why are we doing this to ourselves? And that's my submission to people who think that DEI is about helping the other. No, DEI is about helping us. It is about creating a toolkit, developing a skill set so that we are all empowered to talk to each other across our differences. Dr. Parvez Ahmed, Chief Diversity in Inclusion Officer for the city of Jacksonville. Before I let you go, do you have any last words? Just keep on putting up the good fight. We know, as Dr. King has told us, the arc of history is long. It's long, but it will bend towards justice. All right. And we have to keep the fight up to make it bend towards justice. All right.