 You know, over. Sorry to interrupt. I just thought I'd turn on the recorder. Keep going, Klaus. Yeah, you don't assess just the physical reality of a community, but also the political reality, right? Because there are ownership questions. You know, who is holding what kind of interest in the community and what would it take to sway people to come on board and change? So, I mean, so, yeah, no, no, it will require. I mean, we have to build this up. You know, this is this is still pretty fuzzy in how to approach that. So Stacy asked a question. Klaus, when you go into a community, are there diagnostic questions you ask, like five questions you ask before you go in and start doing any, you know, any action with them? And that's what Klaus was answering. Go back to you, Stacy. So the reason I ask, and this ties into Jerry, what you were saying about mapping, I think this is a great opportunity to engage schools and teachers, like one of the women on the call mentioned, find people that are doing the work anyway. So I know when I was a teacher, it was nothing that I loved more than going to a science workshop and being given a lesson planned with a whole curriculum to carry out. And then you just need facilitators really. And I just think it ties in with a lot of these ideas. So that was one. There's also lots of citizen science and student science going on in really, really interesting ways, some of which is just like, let's go look in the title pool and figure out what's calling around. There's some of which is actually sort of measuring and logging and trying to sort of teach scientific principles, methods, techniques and all that. Yeah, and also when a student goes home and says to their parents, mom, is there anything that we don't buy in the supermarket? That could, you never know what you're gonna hit on or who's gonna be involved in what? And it's just a way to bridge generations, get a community involved. I just think there's a lot of pluses to use as an alternative, like another approach, a complimentary approach, not one or the other, just another thing to consider. And that I'm complete now. Yeah, I mean, there's also the League of Women Voters. I made a presentation to them here in Bend, super active group and they are partnering in turn with other community organizations. So every community like Bend here is very active in this field and very progressive. And I'm sure now many other communities are, but then you go to places where there's not much in place and you have to build it. So, but I like your question. There needs to be, you need to have an entry point, basic clip points to ask them to, yeah, this will take some push-ups. Before we go too much further into the call, I just wanted to check in, Klaus. So do you have family in the way of the emergencies across the Ryan Valley and all of that? Has that affected you and yours? No, we're out of harm's way and Bend for the moment. Yeah, but do you, I mean, do you still have family in Germany who might have been affected? Oh, in Germany, oh yeah. No, my sister lives in Vienna and no, they are in safe places, sort of safe places, but it's a catastrophic mess. I mean, it's incomprehensible. I looked at the images there. I mean, Düsseldorf, for example, has the longest bar in the world they claim when it's this long road and every single building has a bar at the bottom or a restaurant and it's completely devastated. I mean, flotted and furniture over the place and it's incredible. I mean, that's, the Germans have cut that like a deep shock, you know, as to what happened to them here. Yeah, and I just, I read, I read one really nice sort of column report from somebody who lives in Bonn, who said, hey, this was all over the media. Like there were all kinds of warnings, the forecasts were quite accurate. If you looked at the end of the episode of what the forecast were saying coming in, like the volumes matched, it's just that nobody could imagine the scale of the flash flooding. And he said a lot of houses that were washed away were 400 to 500 year old houses, which means this hadn't happened in multiple, multiple, multiple generations. This was completely unprecedented and if they had spent a bunch of time sandbagging, it probably wouldn't have helped because the volume of water was just so huge anyway. Yeah, no, we lived in Düsseldorf my last five years of work on the Rhine River. And I mean, our balcony overlooked the Rhine River and there was maybe half a mile of easement. There was a flood area. So the city's very sophisticated in the way that they protect themselves from flooding. So in the old town, there are gates that are closing. Like a seawall? Yeah, like a seawall. And I mean, it's amazing, the steel gates and that protection. I mean, I experienced a couple of floodings there where we had actually a guy with a kayak floating by below our balcony. But it's unimaginable that the water would rise so high to preach that it's stunning. That was the problem with Fukushima is that they had seawalls, they had all kinds of things, but nobody had predicted the levels and then they put the generators in the basement of the nuclear reactor. It's like that didn't go well because the backup generators flooded and were useless. Anyway, all this makes us rethink a lot of stuff. So this is a build the OGM call and I've had five conversations in the last two weeks that have kind of blown my brain. So I just kind of want to check in a little bit with everyone and see where we are. Klaus, it would be nice to process the call we had and to talk about the message you sent out about who could fill what roles. But let me just sort of check in for a second just to see where everybody is. Stacey, you're, I think, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you're happy when we're trying to sort things out and figure things out in an OGM-y kind of way. Yes. And that has you connecting into some communities you're liking and some activities that might seem to be materializing and so forth, but, and I like that because I'm feeling that from you when you're in our conversations and I really appreciate that. Thank you. Yeah. Anything else you want to add by means of by way of checking? I had a nice talk with Shimon about his project. I'm interested in that. We're going to meet again next week. And also Klaus, if I could get the information and just listen in on the calls regarding what you're working on, I'm very interested in that. Sure. Cool. And we've got the recording up for the case clinic and all of those sorts of things. So we're moving a bit on that. I was even... Yeah, that's right, exactly. Pete, do you want to check in? Yeah, I like that frame. I'm happy when we have a shared understanding of what we're doing and why we're doing it and what we think we'll accomplish at many levels. So even down to why are we having this call? What do we think we're going to do and what's going to come out of it up to a project plan in the last two weeks to a project plan that'll last two months to two years? So I think the project plan is like that interlock but really understanding that one of the things... I feel like it happens a lot that we don't know why we're doing something and we haven't talked... And I don't mean the four of us. I mean us in general, the collective us all over the world. Why are we doing what we're doing and what do we think is going to happen because of it and have we all come to agreement on that so that you don't find yourself doing one thing and the group is doing another thing and you're half done with something and you're wondering why you're doing it or you're doing different things and you don't know why at the end of it you didn't accomplish anything or whatever. Makes sense and we're trying to figure out ways to get those plans to link arms and then to be visible down to the task level somehow so that we can kind of sign up and I think Stacey, as you've mentioned, hey, when I have two spare hours and I'd like to donate them somehow to something that makes OGM move forward in some way where can I find what thing to apply myself to? That's a great request. So we're kind of aiming toward things like that. Klaus, do you want to check in? Yeah, yeah. So I put a project outline on MatterMost to see if we really want to launch this thing. Jordan called me right after the case clinic and he's totally on fire. He's saying that he could free himself from other commitments and devote more resources and time to this event here. So we have a meeting today, later today with Anne, Jordan and I to talk about next steps here and I would love to get Anne started on developing a project plan and use this here. And I didn't want to put it into any kind of software because I'm not sure what is I have been out of the field for too long and I'm sure there's no stuff out there. So yeah, I mean, we have, I had a conversation with Samit on Friday. Super talented lady. He was very on the card. I mean, working on AI and I mean very high level engagement here. So she is on board. Joshua is a guy who has now the seeds of towel work, work cope in the HGLC. He also strikes me as a really pride guy and very motivated to advance his concept. And he could actually launch the educational platform that we're looking for because he already has the infrastructure in place for it. So Jordan and I have a meeting with him later in the week to see if he could, if Jordan could pull him into his scope into his organization now because that is also a revenue generating potential thing to do offering training classes. What is it working? What was it HGLC you said? GRC. Oh, the GLC got it. Okay. So, I mean, if you're interested we could go through a project outline before I advance it to talk with Jordan to make sure you're on board. I mean, is this something you would like to engage with because this could get really big really fast, right? I mean, this is like a real budget here. And I meant to sit down and reply to your note because you had sent a bunch of interesting and useful things about who could play what roles and how that all fits. So, and I'll just let me just check in for a second because a couple of days ago when I was talking to Pete he said I sort of have shiny object syndrome which is true. And I called it squirrel, which is things come along and they like elaborate what I'm thinking and suddenly I have a different set of priorities and things move around. And I've had multiple of those kinds of conversation in the last couple of weeks which got me thinking about constructs that would help OGM kind of show up in the world. And the most recent of them was an interesting conversation yesterday with Scott Cook, the founder of Intuit and his leadership team about a project that might be super interesting and weirdly super OGM-y and could, and I don't know what it's gonna turn into but we had a fantastic sort of kickoff call and on top of the prior calls that have had explored all sorts of different avenues like I woke up this morning at 3 a.m. with my head full of like answers to questions I was asked on the call yesterday some of which I answered on the call but it was all starting to materialize. So this morning I got up and I went for a walk at 4.30 or something like that and just filled my voice memo with a bunch of stuff which doesn't happen to me very often. So that's kind of the place I'm in and trying to figure out, okay, okay if we actually get sort of energy and funding in here where do we go? So how about, Klaus, if you wanna share the project outline with us on the screen maybe a good way is for us to just talk through that and listen to it and see what you're up to and then see where that goes. Okay, is that big enough? Can you see that? Yes. Yes. So I'm now in process, right? So I'm thinking linear and process focused here. So the first thing we would need to do is to develop a flow chart that defines how this organizationally works. So what I envision is you have one spider web on the community. Klaus, I'm sorry to interrupt. I think maybe a thing to do would be for you to go over this super quick like in 45 seconds or something like that, kind of say what you're thinking overall and then maybe together we can kind of dig into it a little bit more. Like fly over it fast once. Got it. So first of all organizational construct, right? I mean to develop a flow chart that allows us then to assign functions and core elements to jobs. Then you need a team formation, meaning we need to now assign names to specific functions. I think we need an advisory council and John Woolock and Tim Deeske come to mind because they are really senior level people. Then we need to get into marketing and communications. We need to set up a website. We need to develop messaging to solicit community participation, sponsors and so on, resource partners. We need an educational platform which is what I just mentioned with Joshua where we would teach, maybe we would offer classes for innovations brokers to get launched, give them basic tools to work with. Then we need to develop a platform that manages innovations brokers in the communities, because so I see the community efforts on one stream in the middle is the platform, which would be us. And then there is the outside external resources that we are calling on once the blueprint is developed, we are basically offering that to external resources. And then we have three offers for prototypes of a community innovations brokers, there's Kerry Norton and Tricia. I had a conversation with Serge, I'm waiting for her to get back, but she's brought me a very enthusiastic email. And then Christiana is from Greece, also like super motivated. We need to have mapping tools and software to develop a tracking device, which ultimately produces this blueprint that we have been talking about. We need to form alliances that would be the external to us resource group that we would then connect to communities. We need to go into funding and as Samit was mentioning, go and start with it right away. So consider engaging a grant writer. I think we have almost enough together to develop a proposal that could, that if it's resource properly, and I mean on a talent basis, could launch us with funding, consider entering the Elon Musk $100 billion challenge to sequester for carbon sequestration ideas. And I think there is nothing that beats the photosynthesis for carbon sequestration. There's nothing out there that compares to it. So if we can build a credible challenge here, then we could apply to that challenge here. And then project management, what kind of software and then use a project plan as the key communications tool and then data gathering and processing, scaling, so I haven't unfolded that yet. Thank you, that's awesome, Klaus. Go ahead, Ben. Let me share a screen and kind of talk through stuff. If you could, yeah, thanks. Are you just good? Cool. So lots of good stuff here and I think it's a good overall outline. I also think it looks like somewhere very roughly, somewhere like three months to six months worth of work here. And I can kind of just see that I would break this out into like, I think I could already see like a dozen, what I call project plans. So let me talk through a project plan a little bit. So this is a template that Jerry and I have been working on using. And the idea of this plan is to talk through what's needed, who's working on it, how are we getting this done? How do we think we're getting this done? And then breaking it down into smaller goals and a timeline. So this is kind of optimized to work on a Wiki, but it could be adapted to any project management tool. This is some background behind that form. This is the link that's at the top of the first form? Yes. And I also have to say that because of a missing feature in the website software, these links actually don't work right. So that won't go back to it? No. Here we go. Anyway. So then I also want to look at another page real quick and this one is not quite formatted, right? So let me switch the formatting. So this is a list I made once of just a bunch of basic stuff that you need when you're starting up an organization. So names are really important because you want people to be able to say, I work for OGM. Hi, Judy. OGM is a cool thing. By the way, if you want to check out the OGM website, you need a place for people to hang themselves, basically work on, this is the thing I'm working on. And as you said, Klaus, a website is a good thing. You need to figure out where you're going to talk. Right now we're kind of using the one Mattermost channel. We might need a couple Mattermost channels and I think probably we'll also need a mailing list because not everybody's going to be in Mattermost. And then document library, a place to keep all of these kinds of things. As you build this, as you build a project plan, it needs to live somewhere. It also needs something I should add to this list is, as you said, Klaus, a project management tool to keep track of stuff. The short list for that, I think, is Massive Wiki and Notion and Airtable. And maybe Google Docs for Document Library. Massive Wiki can do all of that. Notion can do all of that. Airtable and Google Docs might be good for some overflow kinds of things. And the way kind of really roughly, I think everybody has a shiver run down their back when I say Massive Wiki or Notion or even Google Docs or something like that. How is that going to work? What do I have to learn to do it? It's going to be a pain, all that kind of stuff. I think most people kind of refer to the information. They refer to a document. They refer to the project plan. They refer to a timeline or something like that. Most people just need to be able to read stuff. So all of those tools work pretty well. They have affordances for most people to read stuff. And then there's another set of people, a smaller set of people who are doing the project management or leading a sub project or something like that. Those are the people that really need to dig in and get their hands and feet dirty with bits and bobs and formatting and links and all that kind of stuff. So most people don't have to learn that. A few people have to be able to do it with their eyes closed and half asleep. So what that kind of leads to, all of these tools are good at presenting stuff to many people. All of them have specialist modes for the people actually getting the work done. And then what you do, I think, is you pick the tool that the specialist you've got are comfortable with. So the people who are doing project management and the people who have to write plans, they have to be comfortable with the tool and then you can adapt everything else around that. So that's maybe a good enough for now. I think that I didn't see Klaus as kind of a mission and vision development. So I think that's really important. And I think you, it's not in this list, I think because you just know it so well and you're like, of course, we're working on the thing that we're working on. But that's something that as you build a team, we all, you know, this group of folks has heard you speak enough that we kind of know what the mission and vision is. But as the project grows, that's gonna be the key thing, you know, I'm in or out of this project because I believe in the vision and I believe in the mission, how we're doing it. So that's something that we need to kind of outline as soon as possible. I kind of wonder the case clinic has been super useful for us. And I also wonder this to me looks like, I don't know that I would, well, I guess I don't understand maybe it would be good to talk a little bit more about what we're trying to accomplish here. My guess is that these folks, we can start doing essentially a mapping project right away. So maybe the case clinic is a way to kick off the mapping. Maybe we deconstruct the case clinic a little bit and work it into mapping, I don't know. But a good thing to do would be to, these are the right things to do to start to talk to community innovation with brokers. And I think the long-term thing that we're doing is mapping. So then I think we take tools like the case clinic or like roundtables or expert interviews, things like that, we take those formats, those structures and we end up building our own template for how we meet and essentially recruit innovation community. And then how we work with the community to identify the various parts of the pipeline. And so I guess we're going to need more tools besides the case clinic. And we also need to kind of templatize the way that we talk to communities as we go into them and start mapping. Yeah, go ahead. Sort of two comments. One is about the case clinic, which doesn't seem like a, well like it's brought us together. It's convened us into some good conversations, but the process itself doesn't, I don't think it leads to where we're trying to get to. So I think as Pete just said, we need some other group process tools and not just to go back to case clinic to keep doing that. Cause I'm not sure it's generative in the way we need it to be here. Then second thought is kind of as I said, at the end of the previous call about this topic, the mapping thing is a thing all by itself. The mapping thing is pretty huge. And the mapping thing could easily be a contagion vector. The mapping thing has to do with outreach and with marketing and with a bunch of other things because there's data available already without our having to do anything. We just tap into it about every community on the planet. That is just data that exists already. Awesome. Great. Then what do you layer onto it? How do you get people to DIY some data for their own communities? How do you leave tools for them? And is that the introduction for bringing in an innovation broker, right? That, hey, now that you see what's around, having followed our do it yourself steps, here's what you could do. And that's just one way that this could work. But I think without understanding what we mean by mapping and how the different, how mapping could play out and all that, we don't know what role it plays in the whole citizen experience here, I guess. And then you have, on one of the items you have, the DRC as a sort of a source for how to do some of this kind of stuff. I see the DRC as a great community of interested people as recruiting ground for people who might be interesting in participating in this project, but not as a ground for standing up a business or starting a, DRC is not equipped. And I don't know that it's that interested in doing formal projects. No, I agree. And I shouldn't have that same impression. Good, because I was getting the impression you thought DRC was more than that. And I don't, I don't think it is. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I don't know that they have shown no indication that they would be interested to really launch this. And I know, like I go, I go way far back with David Hodgson and Dave Whitzel. Like I know that I've known them for a very long time and love them both dearly, but they're sort of connectors. They're not, you know, organizers and doers in that sense. So I think that we should reevaluate in like, like, and GRC attracts incredibly like well intentioned people who are trying to figure out what to do in the world. And if we can draw on that, that's fantastic. And that could in fact populate this project. Yeah. So, so. Go ahead, Judy. I say that I'm going to come back to my, besides being done, I'm kind of on a process vector at this point, talking, trying to talk with various different groups about documentation of what you're doing, even if you don't know whether you have a process yet, because you're actually creating a process. If you're not following a process. And that's a dimension that most of these organizations. In fact, most people don't do without someone saying, you need to do that. And here's how you need to do it and so forth. Because it's the documentation of how you get things done. And if you don't document it, you won't be able to do it again in another group, because it'll be different people. And it, you know, there's a framework there. And I think it would be a really worthy project. To pull from the information that's out there in the world about project. Processes and formation and the different steps. So that we have a coherent package of tools that we can provide to people, so that we can use some good references that take them to some options for how to do what they're doing. To build on what you're saying, Judy, maybe there's another item in the project plan that is about process, process education process. Mentorship or something like that. And then also, and also triple loop learning. It's a little bit like how do we bake into the plan, and all of the processes better. So that we can quickly sort of iterate on this instead of sort of ironing down the first thing we do. Just keep looking for better ways of doing all those things that, that this project wants to do. I think that's, that's going to be really important if we want implementation to be efficient. Right. And think we're past the point of wanting and societies past the point, well past the point of needing implementation on a lot of these major issues. And so that's, you can have a lot of wise people, but they don't always get work done constructively. And another reason to document things along the way is that we're trying as much as possible to learn from one another and to reuse things, which is why he just pointed to a, everything as a plan project template that you just like, you know, go copy the template and start making plans and then roll them out in that way. And then there's, there's sort of an organized way to start looking at the information together. Well, there's even the option to hook different tools up as Pete has done in some places to say, you know, here's three different ways to do this. Check them out. One of them is probably your preference or something. And it saves people trying to dig around with strange Google queries. To find information. Exactly. So I think the next step would be, sorry, go ahead, Judy. I was just going to say, so that actually leads me to, is there a zone of. Free Jerry's brain or whatever we're going to call OGM. That is actually. Sort of tutorials and process things. Because. There's an experiential component, but there's a lot you can, you can put a skeleton together and then you have to just do it to learn how to really do it, but. The, the OGM wiki is starting to be that actually. We haven't had a lot of participation in it, but already it's got templates and, and processes and. You know, patterns and things like that. The OGM wiki wants to be a home to these things, but we don't, and we have a lot of people in OGM who are interested in learning lots, but we have no learning focus. There's no particular learning spot. There's no particular group and there's certainly no standing call around the different aspects of learning that we're talking about here. So at some point there probably will be. I just don't know exactly who. Go ahead. Take a look at this foundation for intentional community. They have built a website that I really like, you know, and. When you, when you go over on the resources. You, you see videos and here they are, they have integrated. They have integrated the lectures. They have integrated the lectures for, which is a revenue generating part. So, so that the entire business model is basically, you know, on one website and one integrated website. I mean, that is no one way of doing it. Looks great. I think you mentioned this on the OGM call last week. Yeah, I think this, this would be great partners to work with, right? Because I think intentional communities will be an option for a lot of people to lose their housing and, and, and who needs some place to, to connect with and food and shelter basically. Well, this cuts quickly into a whole bunch of other areas that are kind of sad, but they're going to be a lot of climate refugees. They're going to be a lot of displaced people because of unemployment, et cetera. And, and if they can find their way into how to do fruitful things with the food system, that's really great. And if they can learn and sort of, if they can apprentice into some of the tasks that come out of this that are needed and find their way across into communities, that's, that's employment and it's connection and it fixes things. So, I mean, every community is dealing with homelessness. Right. So if you can rent a farm, if you can lease a farm, farmland and, and place people on there and put them to productive use, like a keepers basically idea, you know, you can, I mean, that would be like one of many ways for a community to stabilize itself. Yep. Yeah, I was, I was unfortunately pondering that just while walking around early this morning, because there's homeless people out there and some of whom are simply displaced and have no place to live. Some of whom have deep mental health issues and need, need that before they can actually participate in, in anything. But trying to figure out sort of how the, what role those things play, I think will be important to the long run. Yeah. So, I mean, the, the, um, I was, I was just trying, I'm just trying to build a skeleton. Right. So that we can then put meat on it. So I'm sorry. My food. No, I think that's, yeah, I think that's fine. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So that, that's a very rough outline. I mean, there are several steps here that can be done simultaneously. Right. I mean, we can start working on a webpage the same way at the same time that we are developing flow charts and, and, and job descriptions and then we could people to jobs now. And, and I think from the get go, we should have someone on there who knows how to write grants and, and starts searching for money. And there were actually several people on the call, like Carrie, for example, is very familiar with that and, and sunny sunny days now. So we could, we could launch that right away as well. There is, there is a lot of money in this space right now searching for projects. There were a couple of geekle lab calls that were around grant writing grant finding all that kind of stuff. Did that produce any, did any of us participate in any of those calls? Do we know if that produced any useful outputs? The geekle lab ones or? Yeah. The geekle lab ones specifically. I didn't participate. Okay. So I guess we don't know. Are you saying we don't have a price? Yeah. I mean, this is serious money now. I think the, the next step, you're right, class, there's a bunch of stuff that could be done pretty quickly. The next step is really understanding who's in, who's out and how much they're in what they're, what they're going to be able to do. So maybe that's a call, a founding call or something like that. Yeah. What I would suggest is to edit the video down to maybe, you know, 20 to 30 minutes or. I would back up from there. That's a good thing to start with or to do quickly. I would back up from there. So if you look at the, the, the folks that you've got. So I think I would think of. Corn team Jordan, Jerry P. Klaus and then, and Sumet and Joshua. Let's, I would, I would convene that group. And start them working, right. Ask people how much they've got to commit what they're going to be doing. So I don't, we, we kind of almost have quorum without, And I also I've been a little bit conscious that this is an OGM building OGM call and not the food sovereign call. So I'm wondering if this is the venue for it. Well, I think we need to, I think we need to clearly build calls around around the food system. But I think that by designing this process for building OGM a lot. So I'm comfortable. I'm comfortable anyway using our time in this way. There's other things we could maybe do in the remaining time but but it feels like this is a lot of progress. A small side note just totally reminded by Pete posting the Elon Musk X prize for carbon capture. Through Salim I ended up going to the X prize folks in LA for some meetings and then they invited me to their big annual do where which is basically a fundraising event to cough money out of out of people who want to do good into projects that get brainstormed through a couple days together in a fancy and this whole thing was on Universal Studios a lot. So it was pretty interesting. And I was part of a team that had a project around regenerative agriculture that was the runner up of the contest at the end of the second day. And I wasn't on stage pitching it but sort of at the end wished I had been because I might have done a better job of pitching the benefits of regenerative all that kind of stuff because it didn't come out come across well. A different project that wasn't as interesting one, but there were a bunch of people that I might be able to remember who were like all enthused and I think they got. I'm not exactly sure what happened to that group but I should find out. But also, this was in the air for X prize and they're really good at getting people excited wealthy families, you know, and getting them to donate things. Don't donate money for projects like this so maybe there's a bigger angle there and not just not just looking at the must prize but but X prize as a framework. Yeah, I really separated those two also for that reason. Now there are the impact funds, the foundations, there's government grant money USDA has put out the grant money for community food system development, very specifically. So, so now an experienced grant writer, I think can could go to town with this idea. What else on this topic. Do you want to try and I think that document is now a regular Word doc or it's a Google doc right. Yeah. Okay. So we can sort of put that someplace. Do we want to talk about the name of the project anything like that or is that separate brainstorming for a specific call. So I'm meeting with Jordan and and later and I would love to have and launch a project planning exercise and maybe she can have a work session with Pete to see how do you what software do you use and now what kind of format. I would like to go with that. And then I would say, yeah, we need to make a pitch and say who would be in on this thing because we need somebody to build a website. Now we have discussed earlier there were a couple of volunteers saying you know I would donate some hours of my time to build a website so maybe we can get that going. I can build. I can build the starter website. It would be awesome Pete. Then the organizational construct is that's that's really as soon as we have a list of people willing to engage here. That would be the way to start out with because then we can identify what kind of talent we need and assign it. So then we need to make a pitch to to people to say okay this is serious this has this has legs you know it's it's going and join and then move with it. So it sounds like you're meeting with Anne and Jordan is another step. So that'll be recruiting and basically, we have recorded and she already made a commitment. Okay, so then, so then a meeting soon would be me and and talking about project management and project planning. Yeah, to, to make sure it's set up in ways that the software links with whatever, whatever other communication tools you want to integrate with it and so on. How do, how do we, how do and I end up doing that. Well, let's wait till I met with meet with one and then I'll ask her to contact you. Okay, that's great. I think the, I think, so you've got in their organizational construct and recruiting and I guess I feel like you've already done the recruiting part at least for the founding team. So the thing I would do is I think you're done recruiting more or less, and then I would do the founding part of it which includes coming to maybe let me let me say this the other way around. For me to participate, I need to understand our vision and our mission. And I need it to be written down and I need to have other people be able to, you know, like, yes, I'm signed up for this too. And then the next thing is, we've got a founding team. We're going through what needs to get done and who's going to do what and when we, when we end up with an empty spot, you know, somebody needs to do XYZ and we don't have that person then we need to figure out how to fill that. I think. So, so then after that to me it seems like then we do more a more general call I guess I guess to start off with. We have a kind of collecting people who can do some stuff and then if we figure out what we need what what roles that we absolutely have to have for the next steps. I think reaching out individually probably is good enough for those and then we do a general recruiting thing. Hopefully need to have a standing call for this core team. To to so we all we stay aligned and then we can measure our progress. So maybe we can launch that next week. I mean that would be awesome. Jerry, do you see. Do you see that any any chance to fold that into the A4GM schedule. I don't think Jordan has the organizational frame in place. Yes, I have to ask him, but I mean this is now if we can have people top in and out to maybe interested to listen in and and see if it's the right thing for them to participate and so on. Right. The generative common calls on Wednesday are really interesting like we're having great conversations but we're not really building the generative commons right now. So I'm wondering whether to repurpose them or whatever because because, you know, we should be flexible about how we use the standing calls and what they do. So we maybe talk about that tomorrow on the generative comments call. Yeah, and see what's up. I am a little bit confused. I'm thinking of the food systems project as its own sovereign and OGM is bootstrapping at helping a bootstrap, but I don't think of the food sovereign as an OGM project. Am I off base. I kind of agree with you, Pete. I think it's, it has enough legs that it has a life of its own and it's a sovereign that connects with us draws on the wisdom of OGM per se. And if we're building a wiki that gives a lot of assistance in other operational aspects, project planning, all of those kinds of things. We're a resource to it, but we can't. I think it OGM itself will bog down if we try to absorb under our umbrella all of the projects that are worthy of being worked on. So, a couple things, a couple days ago, Pete and I were thinking about what is the process for using the tools the platforms and for migrating something from a, the germ of an idea to being a standalone sovereign project. And a piece of that flow through like the OGM wiki it's like, hey, here's something that feels like a project and so now it live it gets its own directory in the wiki, which is an early stage of it. And then at some point it gets enough momentum that it's actually a sovereign standing on its own, and then it gets spun out and it builds its own, either massive wiki or something else right. It goes on to its own, it graduates to its own infrastructure. But it feels to me like this right now is at a very comfortable phase to be hosted by OGM in its birth phases, which would mean a standing call within the rhythm of the OGM community with anybody who wants to be a part of the project. So, if you want to be a part of the OGM, you want to recruit to it, invite it in to fully participate, meaning that it's not owned by OGM it's not, it's not an OGM is helping as much as it can birth the project into being a project. So, so I think that, you know, eventually, if if grant funding comes through and then you decide to stand this up as a separate entity with with its own, you know, legal structure for that purpose then fantastic then that's we're at a different level with that. And I would say at that moment, you're like out as a sovereign. And that may differ from what you think. Yeah, I don't, I don't want to disagree, but I disagree. I don't want to disagree. So, I'm, I'm entirely happy to have, I wanted to be I want us to make group decisions about this kind of thing. So for me, OGM has done a good job of incubating the food sovereign. And it is now time for it to get spun out. We've reached the levels of maturity, I think. So some of the bellwethers for that for me is it needs its own name it needs its own website it's starting to look for its own funding. It's working with other groups, not just OGM so it's got GRC in the mix it's got the folks that we've done case clinic calls with. To me, it looks like it's, I think we would actually be holding it back by containing it within OGM at this point. So I think it's ready to go. So maybe we mean different things by the same things. To me, none of the things you just mentioned has actually happened. There hasn't been one call yet of the crew of people that cause mentioned in his document. None of that has actually even taken place. If we were two months down the road and those things that take place there were a couple people busy writing grants whatever I would agree with you and I'd be like okay maybe there's time right now. It seems totally premature to me right now to say hey go off on your own. Yeah, I think so. I think we need maybe two three meetings that at least that allow us to consolidate this whole thing a little bit more and figure out who's actually on board. Yeah, we don't even have a name right so so I'm going to start working on this mission statement already put myself an old mission vision. So there is a base and we need to. We need to modify this video so we can send it around for people to process what we're trying to do but condense. Yeah, and then, then I can see this spin off really fast, but I think we need not just a few more episodes. Okay, part of the beauty of having my sense is that every organism keeps growing. If we want to mine the richness of the diversity of the organisms that are growing and the initiatives that are forming and the groups that will grow to be bigger sovereigns that might become huge sovereigns and certainly regenerative agriculture and food economy could become global in scope and so big that we'd be a subset of it because we're providing knowledge. It's just one of those things where I think that if we hold groups, we want to provide the right level of support to enable them to become independent and be sure that we're on the vector toward independence, not toward compliance with what we're seeing as a framework with our nuclear vision, because that would be a hindering of the potential richness of diversity of tools and processes and knowledge and information. I also think that OGM and its numbers of people would get rapidly overwhelmed with the amount of work to keep track of. And so, yeah, what do you mean by that Judy just specifically that part, because right now we don't have a dashboard where we see how much work there is this would just be another call on the schedule that's people could show up for. They would only be seeing the activity if they went into the channel on matter most on intentionally like this would not flood any of our systems at this point, but I can tell. Maybe I'm just looking at it from a little different point of view that I think that that there's real value in allowing independence as early as possible. So that the growth of the diverse viewpoint is is fostered. And maybe we're just saying the same thing and if we're talking about, you know a few weeks of timing. I wouldn't quibble about it but if it's going to turn into six months or something that's much longer than I think there may be unconscious constraints on the independence of that group that would be worrisome for me. So I think this is actually, I know I'm realizing I only have three minutes here because I have to be on another call at the top the hour I apologize. I think this is an important conversation and it's a very billed GM conversation that we've ended up in. And just to borrow from nature, you don't push the bird out of the nest before it's even hatched, you don't even push it out before it's fledged because it just a practice flying and then it goes, and then it's a little bird and then it's off on its own and woo hoo. And OGM as it's holding an entity has no desire to own it long term to appropriate it or whatever. And we're busy trying to form our own norms and practices to figure out how OGM works and what being OGM even means. And that's not even very well formed at this point. But in the spirit of that if Klaus likes the way we're going about doing the work and is happy with our hosting, then he's completely welcome to like attach himself to whatever it is we know how to do and can do well. I feel like their flight feathers have shown up and there's some ability to go like go wherever and then be free be free little bird because then he's actually able to fly. But I'm, I'm confused about what we mean together about when something is a sovereign and what the drawbacks are of being held. Yeah, I don't know that OGM is going to suffocate the entity I don't know what you both of you are worried about about a few months going by where all the moving parts get in place we figure out who the team actually is. They figure out which path they want to take etc etc and then off we go, as long as we can keep those conversations from flooding over into the general channels etc etc, which I just don't don't see happening. I don't see this, you know, reasonably intelligently. I could talk into those questions, but I don't think it's worth it. I think we should, especially since we've got Klaus and Jerry agreed that it makes sense to at least keep going with a within OGM for a while longer. Yeah and talking about how long I mean, if we don't succeed in building momentum this thing will die. Once because people will just get distracted and if there's too much time passing and move on to something else when you have to capture the interest and capture the imagination of people will say yeah this is something and then it has to really move. And so, I mean in three four weeks we have to be in a completely different place. If not to pull that to pull that off. We can do that after you've talked with and and just we can do an async in the in the food channel on matter most or we can have another call or something like that but let's figure out where you've gotten to with Jordan and and and then see what other pieces of this need to get factored in, and we could start a folder on the OGM wiki for the food system. And we can put the document you just created into a into a markdown document in there that would be easy to do people. And so we can start you off with a place to share documents and start using our tools if that's what you'd like to do, but we can easily set that up. And that'll be a start. Yeah, that would be an awesome resource to work with you bet. Cool. Okay, and we've got a little bit side bookmark the conversation to have about when something is old enough to be a sovereign and what it means to be a sovereign and all that kind of stuff, but we can hold that. We can hold that for a moment. And I must, I must the last bolt. So thank you. Not sure that it. I don't know how to explain what I'm feeling about it. I think that I'm not all together sure I'm even a big fan of the term sovereign as a label, but it's one that we seem to have come upon by a convention. I think that that in the interest of both productivity and creativity, the freedom to move independently is very important. And so my concern would be that in keeping us informed or doing whatever the sort of connect back to mother things are. We can unconsciously inhibit the independence and full maturation and development of a group. I agree and I think we already are, which is where I am, but we can talk about that later. Okay. Cool, let's, let's dissolve this call and continue this later thanks. Thanks. Thanks.