 Good afternoon. We're going to start some programming during lunch. I understand you all are still kind of eating. That's fine. Yesterday, you remember during my talk that we talked a lot about open education resources. Definitely one of the central themes of our work and also this conference. Hopefully, I have three great presenters for you, but we only have two. In your brochure, you'll notice that Wayne McIntosh is supposed to Skype in from New Zealand. We're having a little technical difficulty, so we're going to start with Wayne, but we'll hold off. In the meantime, we have two other terrific speakers who are going to talk about some really great, impactful OER open education projects. Dr. Marie Sini from UMUC and Richard Sebastian, who's from a newer organization called Achieving the Dream, both with really great OER. So Dr. Sini, do you want to start? Oh, sure. Wow. That's great. I didn't realize my mic was turned on. Good afternoon. How is everybody? Good. We're not being left to go hungry, are we? Every time I turn around, there's more food out there. It's very good. Thank you to Sailor for the food. Whoops. Too fast. So today, I want to talk to you about open educational resources and what the Sailor Academy has been doing is certainly a wonderful example of open educational resources. But I really want to talk about the fact that if you really dive down, open educational resources are about access, but they're also about quality and they're also about student success and retention. And we take all of those very seriously at UMUC. UMUC, for those of you who don't know, is a large, predominantly adult serving, predominantly online institution. We did start in 1947 to serve veteran students who were coming back from World War II because the traditional campuses did not want to offer courses at night and do some of the things that you need to do when you're teaching adults who have complex lives. And so since then, we've also branched out into a lot of civilian students as well. So we're about 50-50 at this point. But predominantly, this is a story about serving the needs of students. And I want to start with that because people often want to know how we did this, why we did this, et cetera. And we really try to start with the student, not with the institution needs, not with the faculty need, but with the student needs. And let me tell you what we did. So if you trace, if you know about the cost of textbooks, and I actually talked to a few people here who not only know about it because they work at an educational institution, but they're paying for their kids' textbooks now. If you have kids in college, you know these are very, very expensive. Now a friend of mine last night, a good colleague, we had a really good conversation about textbooks. So since we each have a little bit of extra time until they can find Wayne, I'm going to insert just a little piece here. And that is that sometimes it sounds like I am just completely bashing publishers' textbooks. And to some extent, at this moment in time, we are. But so however, if you look back into the 1950s and 60s, publishers really filled a need for us. As my colleague reminded me, that was the time when, especially state institutions were really opening their doors after World War II. Classes were becoming bigger. Those of you who went to state universities, you had 500 students in introductory psychology. Faculty had a very hard time gathering all the material that they needed for these large numbers of students, as well as the ancillary materials. So I'll give publishers a lot of credit for helping our industry. I think in today's world, edtech is sort of the next example of that, where we have issues out in the world that we have to solve. And so we need vendors to help us. The problem is, publishers became very strong and really worked with institutions at a time when knowledge itself was scarce, when it was difficult to access that knowledge, when there weren't a lot of alternatives out there. There was no Sailor Academy. There were no OER repositories. There was no internet. And so it was really useful to have some vendors asking faculty to write these textbooks, gathering it all together. And then we would have students buy them. But it was also at a time when the textbooks, while they were never cheap, there was a period of time when they weren't that terribly expensive relative to the cost of an education. However, over time, the cost of textbooks has absolutely tracked at the same accelerated rate of change as the cost of tuition. It's probably not an accident. And so we now know that many students can't afford tuition even at some public institutions that used to be quite affordable. And they can't afford to buy the textbooks. And I'm going to tell you more about that as we go on. Textbooks are a big business. And that's great. If you're a textbook publisher, that's what you want to do. You want to sell textbooks. Nothing against that. But there's been an 800% rise in the cost of textbooks over the past 30 years. 65% of students in many surveys have said that at some point they have not purchased a textbook because of the cost. 65%. We find that at UMUC, by the way, not 65%, but we know because we've tracked it for many years that probably between 30% and 40% of students actually, in many cases, never buy their textbooks. They try to sort of fake it because they can't afford it. The average college student spends about $1,200 a year on textbooks. And if you look at, say, community colleges, and I think there's some folks here from the community college sector, if you have scholarships and financial aid for college, community college students, sometimes it'll cover tuition, et cetera, but it might not cover textbooks. Many students in community colleges are actually paying more for textbooks than they have to pay for tuition. So there's something really changing here, and it's kind of going topsy turvy, and it really needs to be addressed. So I want to tell you about a typical UMUC student and why that model is not working well for our students anymore in terms of the typical publishers and textbooks. About 57% of our students are female. Most of our students are parents of children of some age. They are often first generation in college, and they are paying out of pocket or through a Pell grant or through some form of tuition assistance or military tuition assistance. There are many military students in their families, and for the most part, these are enlisted military students who they don't have a lot of extra money. You don't enroll in the, or enlist in the military to make a huge salary. And so what I want to do is tell you, somehow the picture got shifted, but I want to tell you two stories. One is about a diner and one is a meeting in Vegas. And I figured the Vegas one would really, you're gonna wonder about that. So one Saturday morning I was having breakfast with my partner. We were sitting in Saturday morning and we were listening to the people next to us talk to our waitress. And clearly they knew her. It looked like they had come into the diner, you know, like every week and they were asking her about well what courses are you taking? And then they said, and what are you doing about your textbooks? So clearly they had this ongoing conversation. And she started this long story about, well the one textbook I think I can go without buying. And then the other textbook, two of my friends and I are gonna buy a used version and we're gonna like, you know, share it. There was this complex calculus of how she was going to get the resources that she needed. And my heart was starting to sink because at first I thought, oh I'm sure she's not one of our students. But then it was very close to where, you know, my campus is, et cetera. So when she came back over to us, I said, I heard you talking to the folks at the next table, where do you go to school? And I was like praying for College Park, Towson, she's like, oh I'm at UMUC. Oh my God, what are we doing to these students? And so we asked her about herself and she has two kids, she's a single mother, actually she had three kids, single mother, lives with her parents, works at this diner, like for 12 hour shifts, three or four days a week, especially over the weekend to make enough money during the week, takes whole days off so that she can do her education. And so she has very little money left for books. And that hit me. And I went back and really started to talk to my folks about here's an example of one student of our 85,000, can you imagine all of the wasted time and inefficient learning that is occurring because this is the reality of our students? A couple of months later, a number of us were at a meeting called CCME in Las Vegas, it's for the military folks. And we were talking about, UMUC also has our overseas contracts to teach students on base in across Europe and across Asia and you have to bid for those contracts. And the only thing that the contract gets you is that you can show up and teach but the military students are not guaranteed, you have to entice them. And so it used to be of course, very easy to get a lot of students because in the days of face to face, those students had no choices but today they do. So military students could sign up for any number of online courses, they could go to Thomas Edison as many of them do, there are fewer and fewer of them doing face to face. So we always like to try to figure out ways to serve them better. And I said to my president, it's always dangerous by the way when you like pitch an idea to your president because presidents love new things. And so I said, I think we're at a point with open educational resources that we might be able to redesign all of our curricula, all of our programs with OERs so that students have to pay nothing out of pocket. And he was like, can we really do that? And I said, well, let me go back and check it out. I think so. Before I knew it, it was a feature in our new contract. And so we had to do it. That was actually really good with me though because I really wanted to do it. And once it's in a contract like that, you really can't say no. So the solution was OERs. Now OERs, if you don't know, but I would imagine most of you are, you're all the converted here. The Hewlett Foundation does a lot with this. These are resources that are for teaching, learning, research. They're full courses, just like the sailor courses, but they can also be course materials, modules, textbooks, streaming videos, tests, software. There's a range of these things. These are not just some written sheets of paper or case studies. It's really, if you don't know what's out there, what is out there that's being developed and curated is pretty amazing. And there's even more to come. So there's five R's that you need to know about open educational resources. And this is what I think is so exciting. This is not just a walk through Wikipedia. OERs, you can make and own a copy. Okay, that's easy. You can use them and reuse them in a number of different ways. You can adapt, modify and improve them. You can combine two or more, remix, rehash, and you can share it with others. And that's, I think many of us are focused on the, great, we can get to this because they're open and free and then we don't charge our students. Now, of course, there's always a cost to redesigning and keeping them up to date, but we don't pass that on to our students. But it's the reuse, the revision, the remix, the mashing, the changing, like any faculty member can take one of these OERs and change it to their, to feature whatever it is that they need, which is very different from, remember with textbooks, if you'd assigned a textbook chapter, there was always that one chapter that you were like, I hate this chapter on the brain, but the rest of the book is okay and so I just make do with this chapter. You don't have to do that now. You can actually change it if you have an OER. So, again, we had faculty accusing us of all sorts of things, a walk through Wikipedia, these are just cheap, low quality kinds of things and none of that is true. So we made sure that we had our librarians who are experts at search of all kinds of materials identify as many of these OERs as we possibly could for various subject matter areas and also our instructional designers followed a kind of rubric that the librarians created so that we found the right resources and then we had our, we had faculty teams curate them and link them to learning outcomes in our courses and then we embedded the OERs in the course. So each learning outcome now had X number of materials connected to it so that the students have their materials on day one. They don't have to order a textbook, they don't have to go buy a textbook, they just get into the course. And so between fall of 2013 and fall of 2016, we either adopted, adapted or developed OERs for over a thousand courses. We impacted in the undergraduate school, 67,000 students and in the grad school, 18,000 students and more, we have saved them out of pocket more than $19 million total and that just keeps going up over the various years. It's pretty phenomenal, isn't it? Now that $19 million is if they all paid for brand new textbooks. So in reality, it's probably a little less but it's still in the many millions of dollars that we're saving our students from. And we won an award from the Open Education Consortium and this was, we didn't even apply for it. We were very excited to get this because as far as we know, we still believe we might be the, at least the only US institution that has gone to all open educational resources but we'd like to not be alone. So go back and try to get your folks to adopt that. Who else is using OERs? Well, it used to be that you could just say there's three places. Now everybody, not everybody, but a lot of places, a lot of big name schools, Harvard has some OERs. Now they're not converted the entire curriculum, of course, but people are starting to adopt these and there's excitement among librarians and certain groups of faculty. And I think you'll see more of this happening. So, but people still ask me, do the students learn? How do you know that they're learning? Well, there was just a very large study. I have to update this because there's even a newer study, but the biggest study to date was in 2015, Fisher Hilton Robinson and Wiley and they found in a national study of over 1,000 students and they compared students who were learning various topics using OERs versus traditional textbooks that relative to courses with the publisher textbooks, students using OERs completed courses either at the same number, the same level or even greater. So either the same or more positive, their grades were the same or slightly higher, which is also what we found at UMUC. They took more credits in the following semester in the subsequent semester and they had greater levels of passing courses. Now, we don't know for sure why, but you could speculate. If you have, many of our students they could be in Afghanistan. By the time they get their textbook, it could be a three or four weeks into an eight week course. And so they're going without the material for a very long period of time. The more you can get them in the material right at the very beginning, the better for those students. And so better grades, they don't have to take so much money out of pockets so they can actually sign up for more courses. I think you're gonna start seeing, because this new study that came out, learning outcomes are getting better. Because the material's right there. So that is the story of what we did at UMUC and I thank you for listening. And if you have any comments or would like to catch up, this is my email address. Thank you so much for your attention. Hi, this one, good. I missed the deadline for slides and I was a little upset about it because they're like a crutch for me, but then I decided to go with it and it's been incredibly liberating. I don't have slides today. And I'm happy to tell you that. So I'm here also to talk about cost and I think kind of what I'm gonna say is very complimentary to what's happening at UMUC. I work for Achieving the Dream. We are actually not brand new. We've been around since about 2006. Has anybody heard of Achieving the Dream before? Okay, great. So if you don't know about Achieving the Dream, we started as a kind of a grant funded, aluminum funded project that, and then we kind of became a nonprofit a few years ago. And we really work on, we are member institutions and we work exclusively with community colleges to work with them to kind of a holistically transform the institutions to meet their student success goals. So not just OER, but a number of initiatives. We work with our member colleges to improve their outcomes. And OER is really one of the newest initiatives that we have at ATD. What my argument today is, I'm talking about lowering costs, but I think when we talk about lowering costs, it's very important, but really lowering costs is just a step towards kind of a larger goal. Lowering costs, especially for community college students, is a step towards a goal of increasing student outcomes, student completions and helping students, community college students meet their goals. Today is the day, I'm gonna talk about this initiative called the OER Degree Initiative and we just today released our first research report on launching OER Degree Pathways. So if you go to the Achieving the Dream website on the news section, you'll be able to download that and get probably more than you need to know about this initiative. So at Achieving the Dream, we focus on seven capacities at colleges that they need to focus on to kind of improve their success, teaching and learning, equity, leadership and vision, strategy and planning and so we go into colleges and really work with the colleges in a holistic way. And OER really fits into all the seven capacities, particularly OER degrees, which I'll talk about in a second, but first I'm gonna have a pop quiz, so you need to get out your pens and paper. Sorry, sorry. So here's the first question. The more expensive course materials are, the better they are, or the more effective they are. True or false? False, okay. All right, next question. The student, the more a student pays for course materials, the better that student will do in the course. False, okay. True or false? Assuming a textbook is an integral part of a course, sometimes the biggest assumptions. A student who does not buy a textbook for a course should do just as well as a student who does. Oh, let's, some hesitation. Assuming the textbook is an integral part of the course, can you go without it? Right, right. Similar to my hotel of the street of the Hilton, I can buy a can of Coke at their convenience store, it's three bucks for a can, but it tastes much better, right? And so I mean clearly there's a disconnect between the kind of cost of course materials and what we really should be focusing on which is outcomes, right? Student goals. And so I think that's a really important piece. Students value, kind of quality courses that value instruction. They know when they get this $200 textbook and read three chapters out of it, they feel ripped off by that. And I think students more and more are, you know, as we see from the data, they're finding ways to get the materials cheaply or if they can, they're trading with other students and they're doing what they can to get the materials. I did have some really kind of ad hoc conversations with some student groups at Montgomery College in Maryland as well as a bro of Manhattan. And I got a quote from one of the students which was, I use the course to supplement what I learn online. And I was like, don't you mean the opposite? No. So basically they're really striving to kind of learn something and they want to learn it but course materials and the expense of course materials, especially for community college students is a barrier. So why should we care? And why should you guys care about this? Have any of you read Sarah Goldrich-Rab's book, Paying the Price? Okay, you should read it. It's a really good study of community college students in Wisconsin. She looks at specifically financial aid and expenses and there's some really interesting information but really sad information in the book when you look at just average population of community college students today and some of the challenges they're facing. Financial aid does not design for these working students. There's a lot of kind of barriers and obstacles to even getting the financial aid that they qualify for and some of the kind of arcane rules. So there's that. There's also some really depressing information about student hunger, community college students who are hungry, don't get enough to eat, as well as homeless. So when they decide to attend college if they're homeless or hungry, right? That's a motivated student, right? But they have to make some pretty hard choices oftentimes and I think you pointed out some of the statistics about kind of adoption of textbooks but there's a 2016 student textbook and course material survey out of the Florida Virtual Campus Survey. Significant number of students take fewer courses because of expense. They don't register for a specific course because of the textbook costs. They drop courses, withdraw, earn a poor grade specifically because of this or fail a course or don't even purchase the required textbook. So again, assuming that these textbooks are important pieces of courses and a student is not having that material, they're not gonna do well. And we know also from research if you know the momentum counts for a community college student, so the more courses you take and are successful in the higher the chance you're gonna be successful, the more barriers you're encountering that you have to stop out, you're not gonna come back, right? And that's not what we want. We have a really kind of miserable completion rate at community colleges that we have a solution for which is more and more open educational resources. So a cost of course materials really affects a college student's future, whether they're gonna succeed, whether they can even access these courses. But like I said, it's a symptom of a larger problem, I think, and I think the reason that achieving the dream is involved in looking at open educational resources because when you start looking at costs and how we got to this situation where we have these publisher textbooks that are so exorbitantly expensive, it really opens the door at looking at some other issues, kind of structural issues within community colleges. How do we measure efficiency or efficacy in higher ed, right? How do we know that a course works, right? Is it the grades, you know? What is effective teaching and how is it being done in community college classrooms? This is my screen keeps popping back. What is the role of faculty at institutions and what should their role be? How does the internet or the access to the information that's on the internet, how should it change? How has it changed education or knowledge creation? How should it, what are the institutional costs of a student dropping out? Because there are costs to that. You invest in a student and a student drops out and doesn't come back. That costs a college money and that's often costs that they're not looking at as far as their kind of bottom line, I suppose. And what does a student's role or what does a student's role need to be in knowledge creation and content creation? And for achieving the dream, these are not just cost issues, these are kind of institutional structural issues that we see as opportunities. And the reason we think, you know, we look at institutional issues is because when we first started out after the first five years, Achieving the Dream did a deep study of its outcomes, something that, again, that often institutions don't do and found that for the past five years, Achieving the Dream hadn't been really that effective, hadn't moved the needle at these institutions and the particular reason was the way Achieving the Dream was approaching it was like kind of discreet ad hoc kind of initiatives that weren't really connected together. And so since then, we've really seen the advantage of going into an institution really looking deeply at the kind of structural issues. For textbook costs or completion issues, we tend to either blame students, right? It's the students that we get, right? We're all access institutions, that's the problem. Or faculty, we blame faculty a lot for courses that have poor outcomes, but really these are institutional issues. And OER really allows, it's a free issue, right? But the openness of OER really needs to be emphasized. What you can do with these materials. How many planets are there in our solar system? Eight or nine. Well, that, right, exactly. At some point when I was going to school was nine, right? And then what, 2006, I think? Pluto, sadly, was downgraded to a dwarf planet, so there's eight. Overnight, those astronomy textbooks were, you know, they were obsolete, they had some incorrect information in them, right? They added, I don't know if you know this, last year they added four new elements to the periodic chart, right? When I was taking chemistry, I opened the flap of my hardcover textbook and there was the periodic chart on there, right? So again, you know, knowledge is changing quickly. The things that we thought were kind of stable, they changed quickly and that is not something that kind of commercial publishing is very good at keeping up with. OER can, right? You have currency, it allows currency, it allows faculty much more control over kind of what they teach and how they teach. They're not teaching that extra chapter because it's $200 and they feel bad, you know, to teach a chapter or three chapters or five that they don't feel really confident about. And they can choose the best resources for whatever activity or whatever outcome they want. So at ATD, so if we think about UMUC and kind of their initiative, what we look at is once the institution starts to kind of invest OER, has a kind of a groundswell of faculty, has these initiatives going, that the next step for that is to create what we think OER degree or OER degree pathways, right? Which is with a faculty member, you can do this independently, you can do an OER course, but to do an OER degree you need a kind of institutional effort. You need IT services, you need student services to be involved, you need to figure out a way to promote it to students. So an OER degree is for community colleges an associate degree or a certificate as all the required courses and some elective courses are created with open educational resources, right? So a student can move through this over two years or one year if it's a certificate and not pay any textbook costs. So in two and a half minutes, let me tell you about this initiative. For the OER degree initiative, what we've done, we've got funding from the Hewlett Foundation, we're funding 38 community colleges across the country. This is the largest OER initiative to date to create OER degree pathways. So you need to create at least one pathway at their colleges, pilot these courses. It also includes a research and valuation piece. I told you about that study that was released today. So we're looking at academic outcomes of OER degree programs. We're looking at economic outcomes. How much does it cost to do these degree programs? And how much, what are the benefits? What are the returns for keeping those students or lowering the cost for students? And implementation, what does it take? You know, what are the best practices for that? And so colleges are developing a number of degrees, general studies, liberal studies, business, health and health sciences. And they're also looking at sustainability issues which is something that's not always done. If this works, right, if you're getting the kind of results that we think you're gonna get again, how are you gonna bake it into what you do institutionally? How are you gonna connect it to your student success and continue to use it for your students? I encourage you to go download the report from our website. And again, if you have any questions, I'll be around, I'm happy to answer them. Thank you very much for your time. It was Wayne there. So we've heard from New Zealand and we're gonna try this out. We think we have Wayne McIntosh on the line and try to give him about 15 minutes to tell him about OERU. OERU is a consortium of international universities who are very much engaged in using OER to create a first year of study and some other interesting pathways. Yeah, and apologies for the technical difficulties. I had some connection issues this morning so apologies for arriving late. One of the advantages I do have living in New Zealand is that I have seen the future that has already happened and you're going to have a wonderful Friday, I can assure you. So, Jeff, I'm not sure, do you have the slides up and we could perhaps move on to the first slide, which is, here we go. Right. So as I wait for the OERU, our real core business is wanting access to more affordable education for all learners worldwide using OERU. It's an innovative model and it's a low cost, low risk but high impact model. We can move on to the next slide. The OERU concept is a simple but a powerful model. We assemble open online courses based entirely on OERU, which makes it possible for learners to access these courses at no cost. And our partner institutions from around the world offer assessment services on a fee-for-service basis with pathways to achieving transcript credit towards designated credentials. The next slide there. So basically how this works, our OERU contributing partners each assemble two online courses, as I mentioned, based entirely on OVR and open access materials. They offer assessment services and our model is a transfer credit model. So each of our individual partners who assess these courses for formal credit will issue transcript credit, which then articulates across the network to our designated credentials. Moving on to the next slide. We are just about to launch our first year of study which will have two exit credentials, a certificate in general studies that will be conferred by Thompson Rivers University in Canada, as well as a certificate of higher education business, which will be conferred through the University of the Highlands and Islands in Scotland. I'd also like to highlight a foundation course learning in a digital age has really been set up to build the competencies and skills for our learners in the digital and learning literacies for the 21st century, enabling our learners to engage and participate more meaningfully in the OERU program. Moving on then to the next slide. I do want to acknowledge that a number of our courses have been proudly remixed from at least eight of the Sailor Foundation courses. And I think this is a good example of how we collectively in the OERU space are building on the ecosystem. We have converted and remixed these courses for the OERU delivery platform. But in return, Sailor will be getting benefit as well because they would be able to list more tertiary education institutions around the world who would be able to assess Sailor courses for formal academic credit. But in addition to that, the courses that we have assembled that are perhaps not on the books of the Sailor Foundation could easily be converted for the Sailor delivery platform and integrated. That's building the ecosystem together using open approaches. The next slide. I think I should say something about our delivery platform. We do not use a learning management system. And this is not a philosophical decision to rid the shackles of learning management systems, but rather a pragmatic approach in dealing with version control and collaborative course development. We assemble and author all our courses using a Wiki, using the popular media Wiki open source software that you'll be familiar with that runs Wikipedia, which provides us with version control. And we have the mechanisms to optically generate published websites which at the moment are running on WordPress, which gives the ability for any educator, any education institution in the world to publish and host their own OBLU online courses. Our interaction technologies are component based and we have some smart ways of connecting these courses together. Moving on to the next slide there. As I indicated in the beginning, we are an international consortium of some 30 institutions with a footprint in 12 countries. And this presents a number of unique challenges and opportunities for the network that typically national based institutions aren't having to grapple with. One of course is the differences in course sizes in different parts of the world. So for example, in North America, a typically credit course would equate to 120 notional learning hours. Whereas in Australia, it's 160 notional learning hours. In New Zealand, it's 150 notional learning hours. In the United Kingdom, a typical module which is their equivalent of course would be 200 notional learning hours. And how we managed to deal with this challenge is to assemble all OBLU courses as micro courses which equate roughly to 14 notional learning hours. So this then becomes an international currency if you will for figuring out articulation across international boundaries. In North America, for example, a learner would have to complete three of the OBLU micro courses to equate to three credits. Whereas in our part of the world, they would have to do four micro courses. So this creates additional opportunities. Onto the next slide. Some of our partners will be offering micro credentials. I have a picture there of a slide of the etubit, which will be launched by a talk about the technique in the next couple of weeks. The learners will be able to earn digital badges for our micro courses. And this together in thinking about articulation into the formal education sector. The next slide there, which I think is slide number 10. For example, the Great Sustainable Futures course which is a first year level course comprises four micro courses in the New Zealand system. If a learner can take each of these micro courses individually and only if they want, they can apply for a SES learn to earn a digital badge. And if the learners have complete four digital badges that are mapped to the full credit bearing course, they will qualify for credit which then articulate to our exit qualifications. The next slide, and this will be my last slide. The OBLU model is a philanthropic model. No new money is required. Our recurrent costs for assessment services are guaranteed. We are targeting underserved markets so we are not aiming to cannibalize the existing forms of the formal sector. And the circuit does provide opportunities for generating new revenue stream. We've done quite a bit of work on the ground open business model which you are licensed to which you are free to download to have a think to see how these approaches and help your institution. And so given my late arrival due to technical difficulties, I'll leave it there. Thank you very much for your kind attention. Thank you very much Wayne. Kind of given the time and given the difficulties, we're gonna appreciate you Wayne so much. We'll share Wayne's slides with you so that way you have some opportunity to learn more about OERU. Again, thanks to Dr. Seedy and Mr. Sebastian, Richard for some great presentations again all. Again, as I said yesterday, OERU creates a lot of opportunities. So we're gonna take a very quick 10 minute break and right at one o'clock I'm gonna introduce Michael Saylor right here, thank you.