 Okay, do you want to dive now, Kieran, into the actual draft terms of reference, which is really talking about what we're actually doing here, and really opening up the discussion around what's the purpose, the objective, and some of the outcomes, which we'd like to hope for this community practice. All right. So in the, in the, in the notes, you can, you'll see a link to the draft terms of reference. So I just wanted to really quickly go through that. I'll put it up for some comments and feedback on that one. So, okay, so the intention of this is, we've already said that, is to get this group together, to be able to share experiences and findings. The main objective, as we, Michael and I, and the others have pulled together is to connect the people to get, people in the geospatial data and associated tools and services and anyone who's working in that space. Specifically, we're not looking at the commercial sector, but we are interested in the research and, and the government sector in there, and really be a place for discussion around those ones and sharing of ideas. The, we're looking at, in terms of meetings with hoping that most of it would probably be in, in virtually like this, we might have to switch it to a bit more of a webinar form, but also to, to mix it up, you know, to have maybe presentations of, of, of areas of interest and, and maybe some others around open discussions, around topics. There's a broad range of stakeholders that we sort of identified. I think that's not exhaustive. And if there's any, any others that, that any of you think that should be part of this group or should, might be interested, feel free to extend the invitation to them. Have I missed anything there, Michael? I think that's about as much as I, I wanted to cover up in that part of it. Yeah, I thought the objective side of things would be good to go through that. I guess this group, we really wanted to establish different communication channels, obviously like the current forum we're in today, but obviously all other ways with this email or Slack channels or whatever it may be to actually really start people sharing capabilities, whether that's tools, services and standards, which really allow people to really connect with one another around geospatial data, tools and services and standards. And to really start discussing some of the initiatives which are going on across the country. I think when we start looking at all the different geo work going on around Australia, it's really quite broad. And even just between the earth and environment spaces and the human settlement areas, we sort of focusing on different areas. I guess we've typically because we, we focus on different data types and different tools and services and standards. And really how do we start to bring this together given the huge diversity? Obviously in the earth and environment space, huge amount of raster data, looking at sort of digital earth Australia work around the actual data cube, all the way through to some of the stuff happening in IoT and real time sensing areas. We understand this huge diversity in this area. And I guess this is what we look in terms of opening up this space a little bit. What are some of the geospatial data challenges? What are some of the geospatial services challenges? And what are some of the geospatial standards challenges at the moment? And really trying to share some of the methods which us as practitioners are really doing out there at the moment so that we can really learn and improve from each other and really innovate in our work that we're doing. And as part of this to then start moving towards some of the real more, I guess, the larger communities around the country, whether it's say the geo ministerial week coming up, or whether it's part of say the locate conference, or whether it's say through the force for G space, there's lots of different communities out there based on I guess the different aspects of the geospatial capabilities and areas of focus. And what we're really trying to do is trying to link grits together to really look at what are some areas we can help on another and really build innovation and solid work in the practice space. So that would be what I'd add to your discussion there, Kieran. So we might open it up for some in any comments on the objectives. Yes, anybody have any feedback at all they would like to provide. So this is Irene Vastrakov from just a straight end. So I probably start with the opposite rather than objectives. So quite strong focus at the moment in descriptions is on research sectors. And as Kieran was saying, it's actually not just research, but trying to link research and government together. So maybe we need to put that there, like it's across research and government infrastructure in the digital sections. Because I think it's quite important to state upfront in the purpose of that group. Thanks, thank you. And also in the documents, just overall comments, are we going to include information about chairs or co-chairs of this group? And one of the suggestions I had, so it's more coaches basically representing, I would say, research sector at the moment. So I would suggest Andrew Whiting from Just Dance Australia to be additional co-chair representing government. And Andrew has very strong connections to FSTF and national maps and some of our special capabilities, infrastructure and data sets. So maybe it's a good idea just to have additional co-chair. If other group members know against it. Yeah, that sounds like a good suggestion. Yeah, we might look at getting a few more coaches in here. Does anybody have any comments around the purpose space? Obviously, focusing on the research government sectors and involving people and the intent of the group. Does anybody have any comments around the broad, I guess, statement of purpose in the terms of reference? This is Sanjeev calling from University of the Shantung Coast. Can you hear me? Yes, hello, hi Sanjeev. Yeah, so basically I teach GIS and remote sensing. And when you say geospatial capabilities, it has to go to students also to develop some threshold capabilities in geospatial science so that they can use the data set more effectively and they understand the data set before actually using it. So we should have to set out some threshold, which has to be understood and learn before one can start using geospatial data set. So does it make any sense? Means because say one of the key challenge which I see as an educator in geospatial science is that it is very easy to open the data and start using it. But it is more important to actually understand the data set before start using it. And to do so, you need to have certain capabilities. And in other area, people call it as threshold capabilities. I think Sanjeev, yeah, this is my comment here. Okay, thank you. And feel free to mark up the terms of reference document. I see some comments are going in at the moment. So if you would like to add any comments to any aspect of the document, please go with that. Any other comments? The other aspect we're looking at is the objective in outcomes. Now, the outcome side of things is very interesting for us. Coming in from, I guess, the federally funded project space. But we could look at this from lots of different perspectives. So anybody has any comments around the outcomes? That would be great. I'd like to share them. No, I've got a comment about the terms of reference in general, which I'm wondering if there's a section which could describe, I guess, the process that we might achieve some of these challenges. So for example, with this type of virtual environment, obviously, if you went to a conference, it's really all about connecting people. And a lot of that connection comes through the talks and chats. I was wondering what people's thoughts are as to how this might work in this virtual environment where you've got time for people to connect. Yeah, thanks, Eric. As with the ARDC, we're looking at a number of technologies to engage. I guess we'll scroll where we're going. We are looking at a whole bunch of different ways to connect. Obviously, the visual communication channel is great to have in regular meetings. And we are looking at other different avenues of interaction whether that's through workshops or events hosted at conferences across the country, or whether that is regular virtual meetings or workshops, workshops, that sort of thing. Now, from our perspective, we're already currently doing a bit of this, but we're kind of also wanting to build quite a bit of groundswell around this sort of thing. So I'm actually very interested in other people's perspectives on the call to see, well, how could this actually work? Whilst we do meet up at conferences and this sort of thing, we may end up still circling our regular groups, which we've done before, whether it's through e-research or through Geo or ESIP or other different types of capabilities, like we kind of want to break across and build bridges between these groups. So how do people see actually that working? Suggestions there probably just to do presentations from different groups. So for example, for the Siren-Batrakov again. So I am chairing the Australian metadata working group. So I can talk about what we achieved in the last year or so. So for example, we developed a new Australian metadata profile, which will be Enzyx metadata, new metadata profile. So it's one of those things. We also can present on location index project, which is listed in the terms of reference as one of the current initiatives. So probably we can do different presentations for people and recording them as well. So it's a shared resource. That's one of the suggestions. Hi, everyone. Andrew Whiting from GA. Overall, I think the groups are really good idea and really good concept. I think just around this topic of how we communicate, I don't think we should limit in the terms of reference that our communication will be just virtual. I've seen a lot of other sectors having all these really fun events, like the GA rabble events, the GA beers workshops and events. And I think that needs to be quite core to this because we are kind of loosely coupled and it needs to be semi informal so we can get some value out of it. So I really think we should just remove that it's all virtual. I think virtual is a great mechanism to get informal quick meetings going, but we should have some sort of physical presence, whether or not it's in Canberra or distributed out around Australia. I would like to know with the membership or everyone online, where are we kind of all based? Are we most in Canberra or are we distributed all around Australia? I guess a good question. When you look at the introductions, people have been writing in the Google Docs. We haven't actually put down the geographic location, but looking at the names and the places, we are definitely distributed across the country. And we do have to consider the location, but also the time dimension as well, if people are coming in from Western Australia. So maybe there's an opportunity to put a location component. Yes, I think someone's adding that to it. Fantastic. Thank you. So we can actually start to look at what are the different dimensions here. Michael has a request to get the terms of reference on the screen because a few people are struggling to get into it. Melanie, is that something? You could do. Thank you. Sorry, I'm just struggling to see where we add in details into the terms of reference doc. We've actually got a separate document, Sandy. We've got a notes document. So with the terms of reference doc is just the terms of reference and I'll just share the notes document now. Thank you. Perfect. You'll see, sorry, I thought this was circulated beforehand, but apologies. This is where people are writing all the notes around what we're talking about. So from the actual introductions about why they're wanting to be here, all the way through to the actual terms of reference and some of the future agenda items and people are starting to put some presentation ideas in the agenda items, future agenda items and I think it's really good to see. So please, if you've got any ideas around that, if you've got a presentation idea for the future, please add it to the list of the notes. Fantastic. Thank you. The next item we're going to talk about was a statement and what we're looking at. Well, we have an online presence which is being facilitated by the ARDC. We have these regular communications and one of the items in the notes is around the communications, which we've already touched on. If you do have any thoughts around communications, please add to the notes and how subsequent meetings and how we can facilitate this actual community of practice. Well, that's through online meetings, presentations, which we've already discussed. We've got birds of further presentations coming up here, research, other workshops associated with conferences or other local events as well. And when it actually comes to a the next community of practice meeting, we may be able to hold, I guess, notes, so to speak, so people can actually come and attend a meeting with other people, part of the community and share a space with the University of Melbourne or say A&U or Syro in Canberra or Flinders University in Adelaide. There may be opportunity to set up local notes where people actually come together and get to know one another as well. So, Karen, did you want to talk a little bit about the actual agenda items? So, starting to think about how do we then bring together ideas and possible speakers for subsequent meetings now. I've opened up the invitation on the notes page to put a list, future agenda items, but did you want to add anything to that, Karen, at all, to actually think about how we're going to structure this, particularly around the chairing of the meetings and how the actual, I guess, the governance side of things is going to be formed. Yeah. So, I believe maybe, Karen, I'll be frozen. Other people are saying that. Yeah. Okay. I'll send them a quick message. Sorry about that. He's just reconnecting. Okay. So, the item, next item on the agenda, we're looking at a discussion around agenda items. Now, I guess I want to throw it out to people on the call. Given the diversity of geospatial capabilities and the people who have actually already added their line to the table, which is looking fantastic, there are quite a few directions which we could obviously head in around presentations and this sort of thing. As I said, at the start, some of the areas which I was mentioning was around IoT, 5G, real-time sensing, or all the way through to, I guess, more the raster based satellite or aerometry type analysis. Now, Lee has also added them to the page here, looking at standards and processes and I guess we've got opportunities to really look at, well, how do we set the agenda for meetings and how do we move forward? Is it going to be consensus or are we just going to obviously lay out an agenda or a calendar for the rest of the year to say this person speaking on this date and try to coordinate things with in other channels as well? But how do people wish to see this actually be acted out? I don't want to see it be executed, I guess, across the country. Hello. Everyone's talking up. I guess I would like to see a little bit of a mix. So if we've got particular meetings that are coming up that we might have in one meeting where the focus is on connecting groups, so that might take something more in the form of quick overviews of what everyone's doing or perhaps tables where people fill in information about technologies they're working on or various different ways that we can get information to work out commonalities, and then I would see other meetings where we might have some sort of more like keynote speeches or longer-form speeches from certain technology groups that other people rely on or you know something like that. I think that's good. I think mixing it up is a great way of doing it otherwise it's just going to be the next presentation of the next presentation. How do we promote interaction between people? Is it just going to be this keynoter? Are we going to have a discussion document which is put forward? I think my experience in working committees within the different spaces has been that people can sort of drop off the edge to feel that they're kind of not part of the community, so it's basically how do we really promote that and offer different ways of interacting. Someone mentioned obviously working together on say a standard or something like that, that's great, but I guess the overall purpose of this is to really, as a really rather community aspect, to really have this knowledge sharing interaction between people. So I guess people want to maybe present some ideas around how we can think about interaction moving forward and some of the things that Eric just discussed around breaking away from a traditional, well also to mix it up a little bit, the traditional sort of keynote presentation to start thinking about, well someone's already mentioning about Slack, maybe that's too synchronous, maybe someone's more of an asynchronous approach. Yeah, some sort of ideas and this would be great to help us move forward. Sorry Mike. So yeah, just the thing I was saying just before I dropped out was what I'd like to know is how do we how do we ward and how do we work out which agenda to put on the agenda across the group. When we started over we were thinking very small group, but this is, we've already got a fair bit of interest and I assume they're going to grow, so I think we need to have some sort of method to work out what topics are of most interest and in a way that probably doesn't take away the opportunity for the smaller groups to have what they are of interest to them as well. So I'm interested to hear thoughts and comments around that. Andrew here from GA, it might be worth us pulling together a bit of registry or just a whole heap of dot points on potential topics and then we can pull together some doodle leading into each meeting where everyone can vote on what they would be most interested in. Yeah, so Irene here as well. My question is would we have an objective actually to not just to share our issues but maybe to collaborate on certain aspects of our objectives and then present them to the group back. So this way we probably will be able to form a smaller sort of collaborative groups working on a particular topic. I think something that sort of thing would be really nice to see as a byproduct of this work. I'm not entirely sure if that how much we want to do that directly as part of this group but if coming together here we realize those areas that we want to collaborate on and then take that and then come back in that will be great. Is my initial thoughts but I think there's an open question in there as well of saying does this want to be like an overarching point here for those kind of activities as well. I haven't got strong thoughts on that. Can I ask a question in terms of how are we going to keep set of records of shared techniques or documents or what else we want to share. So is it going to occur through ARDC space like they are facilitating the work of the community of practice and they will have some sort of web presence there. So we can actually store links and we can go back to them if needed. So how is it going to be organized. Hi, I'm Julia. Julia, we're going to have a website for this particular community of practice and so any resources that or outputs we will put up publicly if it's agreed. Just Andrew here. Some of the mechanisms we use through ICSM and link and all those different whole government communities is we will generally have a informal landing page more like a component space where people can do their agendas. You can manage your terms of reference or put down key topics or discussions that's more like your informal blog. So we have that mechanism but we also have then the formal publication space. So we might need to consider how we can have maybe two things running. So Lee here. One of the issues which we are going to have to think carefully about right from the start is the sort of person we're going to have as a member of the group and I would be surprised if we didn't have a fairly wide mix of people but we need to be cognizant of that in terms of outcomes and communications at least. Yeah, I agree. Simon, I was just wondering if you had any thoughts on that as well. Sorry Kieran, I'm just sort of listening and watching at the moment we've you know obviously have been involved in a number of attempts in the past at pulling together groups like this. Having, they've hiccuped along a little bit. You know having a clear goal and some outcomes in mind would perhaps some products in mind helps focus things. Yeah, so perhaps we should add an extra item to the notes page for the outcomes. People would like to write down. I guess maybe outputs actually might be rather than outcomes. You know specific products, you know a paper, compilation of best practices, survey of tools and technologies, data endpoints, those kinds of things. You know some of that stuff is is available through the services that ARDC runs and other places but I suspect that's you know because they're primarily focusing on indexing sort of archived or repository type things that they don't catch all the things which are perhaps a little less stable, a little bit more experimental. That's great, thanks Simon. I guess sorry just Andrew again. Being a community of practice, let's just make a clear distinction early that we're not a working group. So I think being a community of practice, if we're going to start talking about expected outcomes and deliverables, maybe it's just a registry of knowledge for example but if we're going to actually start talking about specific work activities, well that's quite different to what the terms of reference kind of reflect at the moment. Yeah no, that's very much the case that this is not a working group but that doesn't mean that you know the discussions here can't lead to forming a working group that comes back with things and this can become a more coordinating point for those things. So I think that that's something that's worth considering and would be a useful outcome if the discussion here leads to some activity that produces an outcome but that's not necessarily the goal of this group to generate that. I think they're very valuable contributions to actually delineate things quite clearly from the start so thank you Andrew for to define those things. One of the things which we've got here, we've got quite a large list of future agenda items coming out now. A lot of presentations which are fantastic. Looking I guess we'll have to go away and have a chat with the AIDC in terms of capability, in terms of the online presence. I think the Confluence idea sounds fantastic in terms of having a landing page. People can come to from the group, learn about the group and see some of the some of the foundation some foundation documents in this space. Looking at some of the we've got some questions appearing here in the notes page around some of the upcoming activities which we've got on the horizon for I guess the initial steps and one of those is a birds of feather presentation which Kieran and I and Guru from TAN are doing at the e-research conference. Just wondering if there are any other side events or subsequent meetings which anyone would like to add to the notes where this community practice can also be involved. So I've added one there around e-research. There's also another round other one around e2 zip which is going to be held as part of the geo ministerial in Canberra between on the week of the 4th of the 9th of November. But if anyone has any other potential I guess ways of grounding the community practice around events please add that to the notes page because it's one of the good things we're looking at the moment is really trying to find some of these local activities so people can start to come together and put you know a name to a face or a face to a name or whatever it is to really start these these connections from or me. So on the topic also so I didn't want to find out you know how frequently people felt we we should meet or you know how much would be too much or how much would be too little. So we're looking at every month every two months every two weeks what are some of the ideas that are out there at the moment around the commitment and how long we should actually engage for in terms of this I guess process we're doing it say the presentations for an hour once a month and then having catch ups via obviously slack or via other communication channels more regularly I guess once we do have the list of members we can start to think about the community itself and the different themes of people within the community or the different areas of interest but we really have just sort of start talking about well how much do people want to engage in this space which is a bit difficult for me to start out starting out but it's quite an important process for us to think about well for the next meeting when do we want to do it how long is it going to be and how are we going to do it so any ideas around duration and engagement would be great yeah I agree it's really important to understand that because pulling together such meetings is actually quite overhead so any feedback on that's really important but just Andrew again should we just aim to pull together maybe the first formal meeting in maybe four to six weeks I know it's a little bit of time but we've got a bit of admin to pull together before then and just see what kind of how does the meeting go and then from then determine whether or not we should have one in four weeks six weeks eight weeks after that Michael did you have any thoughts on that I agree I agree that we should look at possibly in a month's time looking at some of the responses coming through in the chat window in the Google doc some people were saying monthly or two monthly so maybe we could look at having the first meeting or the first presentation with a discussion in about between four and six months time and having to run for one hour duration from what I can see here if anybody has any other thoughts please add them to the chat and we can please just start to pin down what our next meeting might look like and then as we start drawing some of these materials together and how do we then proceed obviously looking at some of the events which we're going to have are going to be before four to six weeks time such as e-research in Brisbane people that are going along to that they may want to network and get to know one another there's other events there around the New South Wales ACT SSI conference the 25th to the 27th of September even might want to connect around that so I guess we have obviously the next meeting of this community practice but there may be other events leading up to that we will actually connect and be linking in with people as well um sarin's just put out a question there I'm around the presentation to start off with whether we actually vote for a topic of interest and I've got a whole bunch of topics coming through from people we've got staff looking at the ANZLIC metadata work we've got the 2026 spatial industry transformation and growth agenda we've got ideas around the gaps in technology some of the digital twin work would people like to see that we actually put stuff together almost like an on-conference style way of doing things we put all the ideas up there and we vote for them or how would people like to see that we actually put out the agenda for the next meeting do we just decide autocratically and say this is what's gonna happen or that we really wouldn't be much of a community so we're trying to figure out how do we actually do things properly so I think some sort of voting yeah actually I'm sort of voting okay well then yep yeah I don't know if we are able to do that here or whether we need to take that offline yeah I think people are still right yeah maybe just a suggestion rather than trying to determine the the first formal presentation why don't we attempt in the next three to four weeks to establish the formal web presence maybe the informal web presence such as like a confluence or whatnot and then once we've got that in place we could either report back to the working group or in the interim put out a doodle poll so people have a bit of time to think about it offline yeah I agree with that definitely um that's something that Kieran and I will be working with Julia and Melanie from ARDC on establishing so I think thanks very much that's just I think it's an important one to get things set up and have a a place so people can see all the links and this sort of stuff rather than getting we're starting to get lost with all the stuff even though state one we've already got three different working documents out there at the moment so be good if we had this stuff probably linked from one central landing page definitely and because like even from that we've got a lot of great things we can present on definitely from Cheers Science Australia but we just got to think about timing as well so even if those names up there around Simon Graham myself for the Gazetteer definitely would love to speak about it but we just do need to have a bit of time to think about whether or not we've got the capacity in the next six weeks to pull it together so having the forum where we can actually document it vote on it discuss it gives us that time to get ready for it great thank you and that's more sort of things we needed to cover off in in this meeting Michael yeah I think we just covered off the the introductory side of things and really what we want to do here and so these documents are going to be up there for people to add and modify over the coming week or two and then we're going to start funneling all this into some sort of landing page or virtual environment we're going to actually then start to interact with it yeah any last comments from anybody at all before we close off today's meeting today was very much a first introduction meeting getting people's interest in the space and we've already got a huge amount of stuff captured in the working documents there and it's really encouraging to see people are passionate about this space and some of the the types of things people are writing and why am I here and what do I want to get out of this some of them are parallel some of them are actually quite different so actually putting this together and sitting down and and analyzing it it's going to be what we're going to be doing over the next couple of weeks so then get this landing page established start thinking about how we're going to communicate this information moving forward so if anybody's got any further comments please please jump in now before we move on to I guess the closing of the meeting yeah Michael and Karen thanks for putting this together it's just Andrew from GA if you do need anything in the interim just reach out and I'm more than happy to give you a hand thanks mate anybody else got anything else they'd like to add yeah Michael and Karen John here from La Trobe University hopefully you can hear me okay I was just wondering as well I don't have a huge background in GIS as such this was just recommended to me to join so I hope that it's appropriate for me to join I think that I'll learn a lot from it but just with you know with the terms of reference all that sort of thing I was just thinking in terms of membership and you know whether there's any stipulations or you know rules regarding that that was all no I think we want to keep it keep it relatively open we don't we want anyone who is working in that space or identify themselves as working in that space we want to keep it open for them that you know if you're part of that community or identify as the first part of the community I think you're more than welcome to join excellent thank you yeah I'd be nervous if this was seen as a straight GIS group because I don't work with GIS agreed yeah thanks thanks I think many of us on the call you know we're sort of working in the infrastructure end or on the standard side yeah it's a lot broader than just GIS so yeah anybody else has any comments I'd like to to add going once going twice so thank you everybody thanks for joining and it was really great to see the level of interest in this I think Michael and I have and good friends in the RDC have our work cut out for the next couple of weeks to digest all of this and try and plan out the next next meeting so once again thank you everybody is there anything Michael is there anything else you wanted to add yeah I think I just sort of extend that invitation out to others as well if you know of other people obviously there's a few events happening between now and when and next communication it's going to be if there are other people who you meet who may be interested in a community practice around geospatial capabilities in Australia please share the information with them and I guess as I said at the start the breadth of this area is rather large and we're not wanting not wanting to start off by delimiting the space and trying to constrain it down to particular areas we actually want to keep this very you know across the whole geospatial domain of this stage to really build a community to keep this moving forward so I guess keep pushing out the invitations if you know of anybody who might be interested be great to obviously build up these nodes in different states so people can actually get to know one another whether that you know obviously based on the document which everyone is seeing I'm able to look through myself and say well okay there's some really good stuff happening in Victoria down here in different areas so I guess this is itself is a really important resource for us to start developing the community and looking more broadly across the country so but otherwise yeah thanks so much for being here it's a great first meeting I said we have come in just wanting to get feedback on it to start thinking about how to move forward and from what Simon was saying any lessons learned from other types of working groups or committees in this space anybody wants to put forward whether that's technological solution or a communication method which may or may not have worked also aspects of minuting putting out minutes and notes there's quite a few different aspects of this I think quite a few people on the call here have had a lot of experience in having anticipation in these sorts of groups but how do we actually really move forward and engage with this the best we can be great to know about that so feel free to keep updating the documents sending out the links and sharing the opportunity to others and yeah I think from my side Kieran that's probably enough for today we're just wrapping up now at five minutes to 12 in the eastern states so yeah thank you everybody yeah thanks and it feels really good in touch by email to Kieran and myself we're very open want to encourage participation and we're looking forward to to getting something up and running a landing page and working with the RDC to start this community practice so thanks so much for today we look forward to speaking with you again soon thank you thank you okay thank you bye thank you thanks very much thanks thanks all cheers