 Welcome back to the Career Hacking Village here at DEF CON Safe Mode. As many of us know, one of the ways that we can get our skills to help our overall career development and actually build those skills that need to be put to place in our technical careers. One of those ways is through being part of conferences, but conferences have so many other benefits to us. We thought that it would be really great that sciatic nerd would come here today and tell us all about the career arcs of cons and careers. sciatic you want to take it away. Thank you very, very much Kathleen and hello career hacking village. It is super awesome to be able to be here and share today. This is one of those rare moments right where you realize there are not that many opportunities to just get out there and share what it is you've been doing or what you know. And if there's an a chance, then it's, it's got to be worth it to reach out and do the thing and today, the thing is talking about how conferences virtual or in person can be something that enhances your story. Because we all deal with this ridiculous frustrating thing. It's impossible to push down sometimes it's called, well in info sec it's commonly called imposter syndrome right. This is that feeling that that wells up in you when you you're not sure. Can people see through me right now. What, what exactly are my thinking what are they thinking I don't know that I can do this. Well, we're going to talk about this a little more in depth but it's a constant thing. And in the, in the context of this talk, it's going to be referred to kind of like a level boss it's the, it's the non descript just thing waiting at the top of the stairs at the behind the dark door. But we're going to deal with it one step at a time, because I don't know how it was for you but when I was growing up my older brother he had the stereo, which meant I got to listen to whatever he wanted and that made me crazy and in the way it would right. You don't get to control what you're hearing your force fed things into your ears. And in this case for him it was, it's the 80s. Yes, I'm that age. In the 80s, the band. Yes, had this ridiculous album called 90125. It's very different from all their other work. But so what it had a lot of high production value and all this stuff but it was pushed into my head, and the song owner of a lonely heart, in particular, was the kind of anthem thing but I wanted something for me something I could listen to. And I said you know I'm going to do something really different and I got a hold of the art of noise. It's just an album cover for one of their pieces for a fairly well known thing called paranoia, but it turns out you find inspiration in strange places. Specifically, the art of noise wouldn't have existed, unless 90125 the actual album my brother was listening to had gotten made. It turns out the music programmer who was recording some drum beats for the band. He got the idea in his head to work with this relatively new recording technology the sequencing technology, and the art of noise was born. Even though I may not have been a super fan of that band at the time. It's the reason that the band I was enjoying came into being. So the moral here is intended to be. It's not just inspiration and unique places, and don't skip going back to learn something new, reexamined something you thought you had an idea of before, because it can, it can change who you are and what your career path is. That's just like a career though I mean, right. It takes time to figure out who you are, and the kind of work, you really want to do. It's difficult to just show up one day and guidance counselor or somebody you trust hopefully asks well what do you want out of this thing, this stuff you do. You just stay up all night and tinker what what is it that gets you out of bed and makes you want to put hands to a keyboard or do whatever it is that you do. So, learn from your mistakes right you've got to go back and at some point, maybe try to even help those who are coming after you to find a different route to. I'm going to talk a little bit more about that as we go because one of the biggest challenges I've ever found was figuring out how do you and I how do we add value, right, I mean that's a ridiculously HR sounding thing but when you come to a situation where you have another hanging with your friends, or putting together a camping trip or anything. How do you bring value what is it that you are going to do that makes it more enjoyable improve the situation. What can you do to be positive about growth. And that's something that is. It's an intangible someone call it a soft skill, but it's a very important and challenging thing because it means something different to every person it's not going to always mean the same thing. Maybe you come along and make people laugh. Maybe you do something ridiculous maybe you help with conferences whether it's planning them, helping with the safety and security aspects, talking to people helping get the sponsorship going. All of these different pieces help make the whole better. So, let's talk about the most epic of stories let's talk about yours. Because, when it comes down to it we have to think of things well I prefer, excuse me I prefer to think of things in terms of a story, because that's what it is. If you're a fan of science fiction, recently one of the characters said you know have a story but make it a good one. We're going to address our concepts that way. So it's your early arc, the middle arc, the late arc or in our case we're going to talk about what these arcs are kind of like chapters or a group of chapters that sum up a large portion of growth. And what do I mean by growth. I mean that there's usually a beginning and a middle and an end to a segment, whether it's part of your life because you met a new friend, or they've departed your life, or you push them out. In this situation, there are usually times and chapters. And with that kind of idea in mind we'll talk about things that way, but some disclaimers that we have to talk through on our way into this journey, your journey. There are going to be jerks. There are going to be people who don't want to help. There is going to be a requirement to leave the comfort of the herd if you watched that show in the 90s. What was that in the 2000s? I forget. The point is, the joke is on us. We love to stay out of things. We don't want to get involved. And if you do, well then there has to be the right timing to get involved. Nothing comes easily, right? It takes effort. Because there are people who will want to be roadblocks. There are people who are going to be just gatekeepers or they're going to even tell you directly, you aren't cut out for this. You have to go somewhere else. That was literally one of the driving inspirations for me to finish my degree, because a professor literally looked over my work and said it gets serious from here, maybe you should consider changing. But that's just my experience. It doesn't have to be college. It could be anything. We're going to look at instead, don't worry about higher ed, this ed, certifications, none of that yet. So let's talk about conferences in general, and then we'll work our way into the levels we can go up, whether you're killing chickens out in the yard to get a few XP, or you are already at a point where you're trying to help contribute to the development or furthering of a conference in your local community. We're going to go through it. These arcs, as I was talking about are meant to kind of take us from drinking from the fire hose coming up to the part where we're actually trying to run the show and how to defend against the beast of burnout. So, you're watching this from Defcon safe mode, I'm going to at least hope. So this is, you know what a conference is, but a conference can be many things. I've heard people who have amazing stories of going to an in person event where it opened their eyes to lots of new things. But there are other stories where it didn't go so well. It depends on where you are, you might want to start in a local regional thing it could be as small as a meetup because there are so many different types of events, whether you want to go locally and look up to see if there are groups in town. I have had people approach me and ask, where am I supposed to go to do this. You're mentioning this go over here over. We don't I live in an area where we don't have anything. There are group sites like meetup or you could use the book of faces or you could use Twitter social media look for meetups in the name of your city or your town or your area code. It may take a little digging depending on where you live. I live in Texas right now. And there are a lot of different events they may not be close to me. But there are events and some of them they live stream but I wouldn't know if I didn't go and look it up. So I'm going to shill for a minute and say look for your local B sides events. They're fantastic ways to get your feet wet. In a way I almost think that the local meetups whether it's for lockpicking or hardware hacking or software reverse engineering, whatever the detail. They're great places to not only meet people who kind of think in the space you like to think in, but also a way to practice getting your ideas out and learning from others of course. And sometimes there just isn't anything really close by that does what you're looking to do. So it might be important to go out and get yourself stretched out, go out there and get in the car, or get on the bus, or however it works when there's not a pandemic. And travel to other events in other places if you can afford to do so. Got that cousin you haven't seen in a while. Maybe they've got a couch you could try out. Don't give up just because it isn't nearby. I'm not saying you are giving up. I'm saying this is kind of the mindset that has helped me along the way. One of the things I try to get into and learn about this industry that I accidentally fell face first into when I was trying to be a video producer back in the late 90s. So, it turns out that sometimes people will pay you for the thing you're good at, not what you want to be good at. If that makes any sense. I don't know what to look for. Anyway, sometimes there are just no substitutes for going to events that are specific to your interest. But maybe you don't know what that is. Just keep in mind there are specialized events. They will come up later, for sure. So, maybe you don't get to actually go when it's convenient maybe you're going to have to go over a weekend. I've worked some of these events go all the way through the weekend and people have asked, why would you do that? Why would you go do a work like thing on your time off? When you find your group, your tribe, your thing that you're that interested in, it won't be a challenge. It won't be a question. It will be that there are opportunities there and a chance to learn from other people that you respect or have a curiosity about. And it will no longer be one of those things where you're just looking at it from a time perspective or a cost perspective. Sometimes and most of the time it boils down to the relationships you make or build the connections you make the people you meet. And around rare occasion, the buffet or restaurant you found along the way. No, okay, maybe not. But some of us are led around. I didn't get into be in this shape without finding the food at least. The point is, there are events at these events sometimes inside the larger event. When we're looking at, hey, I want to go to this reverse engineering event, but it isn't just going to listen to people talk at you. Maybe, maybe you learn a different way. So maybe you prefer challenges. So there are events like capture the flag events, and you can go participate in their call the lot of different things. There are many events, whether it's a skills challenge that climbs the ladder, whether it's a cryptography challenge where you have to come out ahead first or come up with the right answers. Maybe it's a speed trial. Maybe it's a creative event where it's either story writing or making custom hardware working away it wasn't meant to. There are so many opportunities. There are reasons to get out of your shelf, excuse me, to get out from being by yourself out from behind the counter or desk. There are reasons to get out there and to go and engage, and we're going to talk about more of them. So let's think about when you first go, if you're going to your very first event, your level one, you've got a sword made of wood, and you can barely defeat the chicken or the cat in the backyard. If you're attacking the cat that's probably not a wise choice they come with knives, you know, but they, they are so many different things you can do but don't go alone. If you're going to your very first event I strongly encourage you to take a conference buddy, someone who's willing to go with you, even if they're not part of that industry, because it's good to be able to sort of cling to someone else, maybe because you want to pick and choose the different events to look at during the day. Maybe you want to share each other's experiences and talk about them, maybe there's someone you work with. And that's why we're going to go through these arcs at different approaches. Who does it benefit. See if we jump back half a second here, we're going to talk about how each of these things applies to the different use case. So, if you're at the end, you're going to have that tavern scene before the brawl breaks out. You're there with your conference buddy, I hope, and let's look at your support job maybe you're just starting out. And in this idea, I'm going to encourage you to get on some kind of social media don't necessarily post your picture, don't necessarily say all the things that come immediately into your head, realize social media is a two way street. If you're looking to figure out what's out there in your community and going on in your industry. I highly encourage you to get a social media account. Try out meet up for starters see what the local scene looks like. You don't necessarily have to pay but you will need to create an account and again this is leaving the comfort of the herd moment where it's time to start striking out a little bit and again that buddy is not a bad idea. If you're looking on Twitter or discord or slack or participate in Reddit, all of these different ways to connect. The thing is, each of them are their own chapter. So, you're going to need to spend a little time if you've never done it before. And if you really want to know, go and ask people who are already doing it, just to get an idea of how they approach it because you're going to want to, in my opinion, release as little personal information as possible. Especially in a day and time like now where potential employers are always looking at social media to see what image is being put forth of the person behind an account. So, keep in mind that try not to say anything you wouldn't say to someone you care about. Right. So, keep those things in mind or if, if you're an outspoken person that's your business. The point is realize that's there it's the internet it never goes away. So just keep in mind that whatever it is you're saying it's going to be there a while so try to be thoughtful about what gets put out there, but this is a prime way to go out there and see what's happening in the world. At this level, when you're kind of that level one level to startup account, human being, you're just happy to be on the show if you saw galaxy quest this is some place where you have to be careful about wandering monsters you may be eaten by a group. I am saying it's very easy to be distracted. And there are things happening out there that you may not be aware of. So, conference buddy, and then go and maybe think about sharing something you do, right, even if the presentations aren't your job or something that you would do normally. It might explain how something else gets done my very first experience at a besides in Las Vegas in 2011. And without anything I helped move some boxes turns out there was an opening in their AV team, and I sat through a track I wouldn't have selected for myself. I had no idea what this thing even was here I am sitting in this chapel in the back row with this camera and recording gear, but I learned some things just because I was able to sit through all these other talks. Open my eyes to so many things and ideas I didn't even think about. Now that's just me, you'll have your own experience, your mileage will vary. But this can help your career, you see, because this is part of a pattern that will repeat itself time and again. This is a breakdown to you, your management, the team you're on. And again, not all things to all people right, but I just want you to keep in mind, this has an impact it helps us grow. So, in your career, going around to the local events may help you learn the layout the lay of the land, if you will, about who's out there, what companies are in your neck of the woods, who visits, do they come often, do they come bearing treats. It may be a squishy ball thing with a face on it it could be software. It could be free training or an internship. These are all opportunities to bridge the gap between what companies want and what you offer. There are helpful things and again this is at the very beginning of the conference career. If you are already working, and you go to an event what does this mean for your management, your management may be interested in seeing what you did maybe, maybe and as my mentor has shared with me right up a trip report when you go to an event, sit down at the end of the day or even during the day, and get a break and just make a few notes about what you're learning what you're experiencing who did you meet. You're supposed to connect with them again later. You know, instead of live tweeting the thing, make a note on your own device and then at the end of the day you can go back and look. Oh, I forgot I also met this person over here in the food line and we were waiting to get half a burrito together. And it turns out they want to share some information because I'm learning how to code and they've been doing it for 20 years. It's not anything and it's important and don't discount that initial opportunity to make a connection. So, what does this mean for coworkers. If they hear that you're attending these events, they may either a want to go with you be might want to see if you brought back any good information or see maybe they're going to say oh what did you learn let me share something I was looking at it opens doors. It's a conversation. Everything in this life it seems is tied to that and this is no different, but the value to you is now you are going out and seeing something new. You're introducing yourself putting yourself in the path of discovering something that you didn't already know, or if you did know, maybe it fills in some blanks for you. Or again, if you look, yours, you have an opportunity to grow, even after that when people start to take notice, maybe offer to pick up work you wouldn't normally do in your office, offer to join a team or participate in a group event, because your intelligence alone isn't enough to save you. You can be the smartest person in the room, but without the understanding of when and where to apply that knowledge. It's not going to be as much help as it could be. And we all could stand to learn more. I know I could. So I chase it over and over again. And if you're still with me here. Cool story bro. Maybe that's what you're thinking because you don't know me. That's right. I don't know your situation. Everybody is going to be different. And that's okay. This isn't supposed to be tailor made for one I'm sharing experiences I've had so far, because this is what's gotten to me to where I am. And so far, it seems like we all suffer from imposter syndrome at one point or another, where we're not quite sure if we're good enough to do the thing we're doing. Or at any given moment, someone will see through us and realize fake person doesn't know it. They shouldn't be doing this, or someone comes at you that way in any other direction. And it sticks with you and choose at you while you're going and eating takeout and quietly scarfing things and watching the TV show. Wait, that was just me. Sorry. Whatever your situation. It, we all fight with it. So how do we move past it. You step up you go further you have to push through and defeat your personal level boss, and move on to specialization. By the way, that that time where you were in the jumper back there and the first arc is a starting out person. That's not there's no given timeframe that could be six months it could be six years. Everyone is different, the people in your life are different. You have to keep pushing to get to the next level. You may even have to back up and redirect. But don't give up, because now let's imagine you've been going to events for a little while. You've gone to a besides you traveled out of town for a bigger event, maybe some name brand something, all kinds of events exist. Some don't anymore. We exist in a special time right now. Use this time to go and start watching videos at virtual events, just like this one. One's in other cities and other continents, because now is an amazing time to connect with people you might not otherwise get to meet or learn from, because conferences are a great way to come together and learn new things. So here in the specialization arc. Now is the time that after you've done a few things. Maybe you start realizing there are specific things you're interested in learning things you want to do. And now you can start ticking off the boxes in the online schedule for that event, because you only want to learn about butter sculpture so you look for all the events that have butter sculpture in the name. And you are going to look at the one where the person's using the razor blade and carving very tiny intricate things and the one with the chainsaw, who is making baby Yoda out of butter fat. You never know the point is that when you start to narrow your specialization and figure out what it is that interests you, it changes the way you attend an event. And at larger more nationally attended events, there's a much broader cross section, right, you're going to have different people coming to present. It is not to invalidate the people you met before. It is simply to say that you can get more ideas because if you go to all the meetups and all the things in your local community, maybe you've heard it a little bit. And now you're looking for another perspective. The other thing is, while you can go and much of the events that you go to when you travel, when we get back to that seems to be tied up in the talks. I mean, it started to become less about the talks and presentations that way. It became more about the side long events, the, the villages, the meetups, the impromptu get togethers. And those things suddenly became where I connected more with the people who were at the event, then going to talks alone. And that changed. I guess it changed actually my perspective on why I was going. And that's just me, because to me growth personally means connecting with people who either share and help me grow or I can give something back to in return. So let's go back to not forgetting to bring a conference buddy at a larger event it's even more important, whether you're meeting up with someone from another locale who's coming to where you're going to be. So why not leave on the mission alone if you can help it because it helps to be together, and it takes time to find a tribe. It took me goodness, it took me years. I felt, I feel now like I'm part of a much larger group of people who are all about learning and sharing and growing. I make it sound incredibly idealistic, not all moments, but most of them, a lot of good ones, whether you're coming together to raise money for a charity somewhere else, or you're just trying to learn how to do Python together. It's worth it. And so sometimes it takes multiple years also to find either the tribe, or to stop drinking from the fire hose and figure out that thing that really drives you. But now that you've gone to these bigger events. Where is the value, the value to management now they're going to hope that you're bringing ideas back. Did you write that personal trip report when you went to the first and smaller events. Well now it will seem like second nature when you hit the big events, because now you're almost dialoguing with yourself. Now I talked to myself an awful lot I don't recommend it for everyone, but people have come to expect it from me. The point is whether your monologue is internal or external, having a log of where you've been who you talk to and what you learned will help you keep track of where you are on your journey, and maybe even setting up personal tools to measure where you feel you are, and where you want to go, there must be an opportunity there because management is going to see that that's going to look like getting your act together and management will maybe offer you the opportunity to collaborate with other teams. Don't miss out on those group opportunities. They may be painful and frustrating, but they're in lies growth and partnership and advancement. And that's not to be missed. There are some amazing opportunities out there, because your coworkers are going to see that you're coming back with this stuff. You will have access to new people, the presenters, right. You'll be seeing new people you'll be talking about new things. There are so many opportunities to just share something and partner. I've seen a couple of great opportunities because of my own imposter syndrome, right at the very beginning of my journey, because I felt like I would be taking away from the voice of the person who had a clue, because I know I didn't feel like I had one. So, give yourself a break. But also, if you go to these events and you feel that self doubt chewing at you know that everyone else is going through it to maybe even the person standing up at the podium. I'll tell you to you at this arc, when we're not drinking from the fire hose we're specializing stay connected to people on social media begin to build your interconnected network of people. And by doing that I mean just be a human being to other people actually get out there get on social media see what's going on in the world. Oh wait I saw an article about this thing that the person I follow was talking about. You can share it with them. Ask if they've seen it before. Try to watch as you ask questions don't present like you know everything. I know I've stepped in a few times and had to go wash my shoes off of the hose. It's going to happen. It just does, but realize that there's chance to be and grow in part or in whole as part of a community. That's amazing give yourself time to grow give yourself a chance to learn these things and it may not come again on any particular timetable that we want or desire. There's a larger picture here. You are drafting your great novel of your career path and conferences can be a part of that because the people you meet along the way will contribute to these chapters. I think it's hilarious that you're going to tell me to go do all this stuff and get out there and go out and do all these things. You don't know what I'm going through. I face all these issues. My butter sculpture is melting in the backyard right now you lunatic and while I'm listening to you. I'm not out there, tending the garden or fixing this up or the milk is curdling or whatever. No, I can't possibly know that, unless we interact. And then it takes time and effort to stay connected. And we can't give up just because things get bad or ugly, because they will, because life isn't easy, but we can take it and we can turn it and push it through our imposter syndrome because there it is again. Right as you've gone out and you said wow I've had a great time at this event, and you come back with your little trip report you wrote up and someone says, that's terrific while you're off partying the rest of us were here working. After you pull up that trip report and say actually, John Bob Sally Sue's Chrissy, whatever your name is. Here's what I was doing I actually got to meet these people and do these things. Whatever I do I don't know if you have a personal life Sally Sue Johnny Bravo, Samson, but it's not all fun and games. There will be moments of levity goodness I hope so. But there are also lots of times of learning and growing together. So let's say you're on to the third arc, the prestige class, you now have a fancy hat and maybe some things epilots on your shoulder, a little pin here who knows, maybe you have a custom patch you wear, because you are have reaching out to the prestige class level. You have now taken it to the point where you have gone and absorbed. The montage has passed and now it's further along you maybe have a little great your temple. Who knows. The point is you're at a level where you can turn around and start sharing what you've learned. Maybe you've attended a lot of these events and you said you know what I actually feel pretty good about my knowledge of sculpting icing into small animals that I now will wrap around mechanized zoids that will now walk. Now go and tell people about this. Well, it turns out there's lots of things you know that others may not know. It's your turn to start sharing that information. And it's not going to be an easy road necessarily. Maybe you were the class clown and maybe getting up in front of people was easy for you. Not so for a lot of folks right. Some people I think would much rather pull their own teeth out with the back bumper of a vehicle than try to get up in front of someone and share an idea, like we're doing right here. But it's worth it because it might be a progression. Okay, so go and watch stand up comedians if you don't now and learn or or if you really have no idea where to start with public speaking. There's a group called the Toastmasters. Now this is an entire subculture. Okay, they exist they're larger than any Def Con, or B sides, or any one group. There are thousands of these chapters around the world. And they have their own competitions, and they will help harden you prepare you start you out and understanding for how public speaking works. It's valuable. It is amazing. And it's really quite humbling because they have their own competitions their own ladders to climb but it helps explain how public speaking works, and gives you the tools to put in your backpack to bring with you to conferences, so that it isn't the scariest thing you've ever done. So that's actually worth it. Again, Toastmasters, please take an opportunity if you're going to learn to present and check out the local groups in your area. I can almost guarantee you, there are several, wherever you are. And I mean that that's not just where I live. I mean, the chapters are amazing. So grab your hairbrush get in front of that mirror and start talking about what. As a friend recently shared the presentation that only you can give. If you spend 80 hours a week brushing dogs, then that's what you're going to make your first talk about, because that's what you know. Get it down figure out how to tell your story. And if you can put up with it, I highly encourage you to record yourself doing it. Get in front of the mirror go through it the first time. This is going to take some time and effort, but you have to record it so you can go back and look at what you've done. You have to be able to get back and examine and look for the nervous tick you didn't know you had. You have to work on correcting it step at a time, whether it's trying to bite your nails on stage, or it's perhaps adding ums, how many ums have I had in this presentation today. How many times did I stop cough or blink oddly have I constantly rubbed at my eye with this finger, whatever your situation is, it'll come out when you see the recording. Now, always bring a video adapter with you. This is one of my little top tips because I've worked AV for events. The expectation is always going to be that when you get there, there is only going to be a live chicken and a small old bowl of oatmeal. So if you can bring anything with you that will help the situation. I encourage you to do so. That means having your laptop, having your laptop with a connector that can send video out. And also having your presentation, not only on the laptop, but on a thumb drive that you have brought with you and is in your personal possession, maybe touching your body somewhere. Beyond that, I'm also going to encourage you and say it again, bring the video adapter that goes with your laptop and has at least two kinds of output on it, at least two kinds of output, because sometimes you get on site and there isn't. It's the same projector you worked with at home. Or your laptop doesn't work well with it, but they maybe can have a presenter laptop on hand for you. So you whip out the thumb drive. Or if all else fails, you keep a backup also in your cloud that you can then download to your local device and share using a local connection kind of technology. So what this is, you need backups, folks, backups of all things. If there's a carbon copy behind over here, that would be awesome because it'd be great because I need them to go and fold the laundry right now. If you can have a backup for you at your presentation time, have it, especially do you do demos. Do you like to try and invoke crazy moments of random when you try to open something that worked five minutes ago but now you're live and on air. And you don't have something that plays. I'm telling you, you got to get out there, but you got to go prepared. So please pre record your demos, just in case it's easier to run a video than to stand there and dry wash your hands in front of people. Now, when you're going to do it, you've got to go and prepare yourself for rejection. I know that sounds tough. And it kind of is. But it's worth it because you have to audition in a sense and it's called the CFP or call for presentation and every conference will have a different process. It might be helpful to go and look online for conferences in your part of the world. For example, if I go and look for information security conferences, North America. I've been able to locate schedules that include not only the name of conferences that are coming up, but also when their submission times are and when they wrap. Someone has a heart for this there, there are folks who have a passion for helping others to share their ideas. And since that's what we're about right now, go for it. You can choose to do it locally practice at your local meetup event, but then take that show on the road, go do it. Your confidence will come through to the audience. But, okay, so why am I doing that. Why would I go and put myself through all of this stress and singing into a hairbrush and why would I go to all this trouble because it adds value to who you are, and what your contribution can be conferences can inform our self confidence, because now if we imagine that this is easier. It's not to my boss and my boss makes me nervous. I just got up this weekend and presented in front of 100 people, a thousand people, 10 people, whatever it was. And isn't this easier now because you've done that. Sure, you know this person doesn't necessarily have a response but you didn't get boot off stage did you. No, you made it through and if you did get boot off stage. That's okay that that colors things into. That would have sucked sorry, but come back from it anyway. The ability to present is an essential part of communication, whether you're pitching ideas in an elevator, or you are trying to share about a report that comes out every week. If you get up to share about that report in your group or in your team meeting, you will have learned or taken something away, whether that informs your ability to present an event, or your presentations and an event help inform your internal confidence. It is so worthwhile to management because you're going to go and say, I can do, I can do this thing. So if you find that if your boss or your team sees that you can now present and they start pushing you out there. Try not to outshine the top dog in your community, because it's about showing respect as well as having the ability to represent. So, again, if you're really good at it, just try not to show up other people be respectful of what they're doing and what they're there to do for you and what you're doing for your team. Learning to speak will help yourself confidence and it will help on very tough situations like job interviews, which are very much like presentations because that's the dog and pony moment isn't it. Your resume is the only place where you will ever be this perfect ever. By the way, if you haven't taken advantage of it. I hope you stopped and take advantage of the opportunity for live resume review that may be going on right now. And if it happened in the past, go look for it in a future event and look for career tracks and opportunities to have someone help you examine a third person an outside party to take a look at that resume to make sure that you're polishing it the right way to make sure your tone and your story is getting told in the best way it possibly can, because getting back to it presenting at conferences puts you into a whole new group of people, the actual presenters and they will grow as part of your personal network just like you are becoming part of theirs. It can allow for opportunities to bounce ideas off of someone in your field or in a different field. Maybe you get to learn more about their story, and they can definitely help you polish up yours. This. This has actually been one of the best experiences I've had where I've been able to communicate and connect with someone I met and another event. And we share ideas when trying to come up with new talks, and they're hopefully going to be honest with you. And because they do it. They're hopefully thinking in a way that supports you as well. But that's just me talking right cool story bro. You don't know I have crippling anxiety. I have a missing left arm and if you do more power to you, because you're awesome and you get through the day and you do what needs to be done. Those who make it happen make it happen. You are going to be one of those people. If you can right. You can make advantage of the opportunities in front of you and go for it. I don't know you. You don't necessarily know me, but I know we all deal with imposter syndrome. See here we are again at that level boss I'm terrified of getting in front of people what if they, what if I stutter. What if I trip up what if I say something what if I drop the microphone. What if I literally trip on stage, you get up, dust yourself off, you say excuse me. And you pick it back up. I started out very early on being very filled with anxiety and nervous, and I showed many personal things I thought that would lighten the mood, which turned out not to necessarily be the greatest thing to do during the presentation. So if I can encourage you, wiggle your toes. Be serious when you're standing up in front of people, wiggle your toes. Those of you wearing open toed shoes this may not be for you. However, wiggle your toes like mad. Why, if you like to podium dance, you have a thing you like to do, and you don't know that you're doing it, and it kind of can get distracting from your topic. You can do it with your toes. And I mean, like go crazy with the wiggling, because what it does is it puts all that nervous energy away from where people are looking. Now me, I talk a lot with my hands, I try to keep it down, but it's just kind of a thing. A friend used to joke that if they handcuffed me hands behind my back, I might not be able to talk and I think they're right. So if you're standing up in front of people, if you wiggle your toes you'll find that it takes some of that nervous energy and puts it somewhere else, and it's not a distraction for you or others. And it lets you get on with the thing where you can start the fourth arc. Now, now you've arrived. You are going to turn the tables because you've obviously lost your mind because you're going to try to put on an event. When you get to this level, giving back to the community becomes an important mission of its own. Seek partnerships, because that's what happened to me. I started to go out and present and share a little bit here and there and then realize there was an opportunity in my local community in San Antonio, in San Antonio, Texas. I've been here 30 years. I got to tell you something. This has been one of the most rewarding reasons to stick around is being able to help other people to find their career path, whether they're at the very beginning, or getting ready to retire, finding people who are willing to share their ideas give of their time. It's very rewarding. It is, however, a little maddening because at this point it could open doors to bigger things at work. Once people see that you're starting to organize a group, or they hear that you're putting on an event, and it gets known, you may be asked to present about that, or how the organization supported it. There are many, many opportunities, but don't miss out on them. And just because you participate in the operation of an event or a meetup, it does not necessarily mean the same thing as business management, by the way. Herding cats and herding cats. There are different kinds, just like there are many kinds of cats, there are many types of managing management. So it's easy for this to get confused, but it can still provide value. And it can take longer than you think to get it right. The very first B side San Antonio I helped with, I was like the number three person, and then a few years go by and I'm asked, given the opportunity. And I had to take it. It's not easy, but now you're looking at a whole new kind of value to bring to the team because you can now build contacts. You can leverage your coordination skills. Ask for help. It's easier than you think, and much harder than you think. But asking for help is important, because otherwise, it's very easy to sink. And whether or not try to test those waters. So, so be honest with yourself when there's a problem. And be thankful. Oh, so thankful for willing partners. What I mean by be thankful is tell them you appreciate them. Let them know that that thing they just did that rock they moved out of your way that you could not move. Let them know you appreciate it. Do not wait. Send them a thank you note. Send them send them something edible that works for their digestive tract. That's a silly way to say that. But you get the idea. Be appreciative. Remember, this doesn't happen without the help of other people. So there are all new challenges when you get to the fourth arc by the way. Marketing budgeting planning skills I never really knew I had, they're going to come up and you must learn to work with your volunteer army, all of this to tell you. That each of these steps along the way, you have to work with other people and resolve on the fly sometimes. But that's a fun story because I'm not even I'm not I have an internship I don't even have that I'm just trying to decide if I need to go for a degree plan or if I need to get a certification. Because you don't know what I'm going through right now you don't know how hard it is. I can barely put food on the table I'm supposed to go and help someone else learn how to start a career path. You'd be surprised. And you will. If you get off that wall, get out of the chair get off the couch and get engaged. Because even though I had massive imposter syndrome, trying to operate beside San Antonio. We had a very successful year this year, not because of me. Yes, I play my part, but everyone from our sponsorship team to our events team, AV folks, everybody, even our ombudsman. And you can ask the organizer of this village about the ombudsman should you be curious what that's about. The point is, there are so many ways that we can overcome this, if we try. And all of this work, all of this effort, all of these things that we try to do. We must be where the beast of burnout when you are done so done. How done are you, everything stresses you out. There's nothing that could bring you back from the edge. You cannot even imagine getting up and doing the thing again, whatever it is. This is the time to take a well earned break. Take a step back. I don't know if you've ever had one but I have days where all technology feels like it has turned against me. I don't know what happens but it's like I could pick up a small plastic object and it would snap in half just by me touching it and oh, if it's one of those days maybe it's time to take a step back and read a book or go for a walk or something. Get away from it for a while but then when you come back, look and see what it is that got you interested in the first place. What was it that sparked your interest or gave you the drive to do this? And we go back to the art of noise story from the beginning. I did not like the Yes album 90125 and I went out of my way to ignore it and push all of that stuff away for years. 15, 20 years passes and I go back and read an article out of one of those where are they now magazines or retrospectives about a band. And the article mentions how there was a major change in what they were doing and how they partnered with a specific group of people during the time because yes as a band failed. Someone else came in a new vector came in and they partnered with someone. It changed everything about that band and gave them another 25 years of life. Why? Because just like burnout when it's something has run its course and you're not sure why you're doing it anymore. There is benefit to be had by going back and reexamining what it was that got you started or read into the very thing that sparked your interest to begin with and see if anything new has come up. It can take you down another road a new path and open all new doors, inform something you thought you knew for a long time as a held belief, and maybe that fundamentally changes for you and changes you in the process. So that reflection can change so much about you because at the end of the day we need each other right. I mean everybody who even people who don't like other people need someone to tell that to. Okay, and because I firmly believe this and sounding boards are really helpful you've got to be able to share your ideas and figure out where things fit and honest feedback makes everything better as hard as it can be sometimes. You know, the baby's ugly. Yes, I'm sorry I have to be the one to tell you. So, fine. That's all easy for me to say right. But I'm here to tell you that if the underperforming kid in seventh grade who went on his lunch and hit out in the AV room and enjoyed rolling the cart into the classroom with the film strip projector and being the kid who could turn the thing that boop meant to turn the knob. If you can be that guy and end up where I am now. Oh my goodness. I don't know any way better than that to tell you. This is something you can do. This is something you can actually do. You have to be able to break your own mold and move past it we just put on a B side San Antonio that blew away all of my hour expectations right. Over 1000 people we had people participating from six countries. I didn't expect that. But you can't expect it, but you should try for it. So that's what we're here to do. Cool story bro. You don't know me. I'm fighting my own imposter syndrome on my own battles. But that's the point. We're here to build a community and let's try to build it together and make it better. I very much appreciate your time and your ears and your eyes. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. And thank you. I hope you have a great time checking out the rest of the career hacking village and Defcon safe mode. Thank you very much. I am sciatic nerd. Even thank you so much. I really appreciate you sharing how you've woven your career throughout all of the career, all the conferences that you've attended and produced and it's a really great roadmap for everyone in their careers. I know everyone's going to be looking forward to asking you questions in the discord channel. And as you mentioned, we do also have resume review going on and career coaching just ping us in the career channel, and we'll be able to tell you where there it is. Take care everyone enjoy the rest of the conference.