 Hello everyone and welcome to a very special limited series brought to you by the Falcons podcast network I am Tori McElhaney, and I am joined by a man who needs no introduction, but I've written one nonetheless This is someone who has almost 50 years of coaching experience at both the high school level the college level the pro level He has a coaching tree of we recently found out about 25 coaches deep at the college and pro level two super bowl championships Retired in 2019, but couldn't keep him away from the field and he came back as the defensive coordinator of the Falcons in 2021 I am joined by none other than dean peas. Thank you for joining me on the podcast now Before we actually get into the content that I have prepped for the podcast I wanted to tell you a story because this is a very funny story I don't know if you remember or not, but this was a press conference Gosh, it was probably midway through the season last year and you said that I was your favorite, which I appreciated nonetheless but One of our podcast listeners actually sent me in the mail a very special gift and I'm going to show it to you It's it That's great. It's a mug that says dean's favorite. I'm going to show the camera. Hello everybody And this is something that it was funny because I got a text from austin hittle who's our director of video here And he was like tory. There's something in the office that got sent to you And I was like, who is sending me anything my parents definitely wouldn't the only people who send me things are my parents I was like, there's no way that anyone's gonna Send me something. He was like, I don't know what it is, but it's here at the facility And this is what it was. That's very nice. It was a very I was like, this is very thoughtful So I had to show it to you. So now I'm officially dean's favorite. It's it's been in the mug form so my plan for this podcast is kind of just to go through your 50 years of coaching and kind of look at it in a chronological way and and look back at the lessons learned and the moments that you Find meaningful and appreciate. Um now something that we actually talked about recently is that You got your start as a high school football coach and teacher and that's something that's very near and dear to my heart because my dad is a high school football coach And teacher. So I don't know if many people actually know that about you I think they see like, oh, he's a defensive coordinator in the professional league But he got his start as a high school coach. That's very interesting. So for you, I want to go back to It's probably what 1972 1973 1973 1973 go take me back to a young dean peas Well, I had just graduated from college really in the middle of the year graduated in december I was playing in a city league basketball league and the guy that was on my team was a principal of a high school And uh, obviously I got to know him well playing on the team and one day he came to me and goes, uh, you know What are you planning on doing? I was actually working at a men's clothing store In town and I thought, you know, I want to teach and coach as I got an education degree. I really want to coach And so he goes, well, I think we're going to have an opening. Would you be interested? Absolutely. So I I Took the job site unseen didn't know where the high school was anything else didn't really care just so I wanted the job and uh took the job and was uh The defensive coordinator my first year and then the next year the the head coach resigned and I became the head coach And really that's really Tory. That's that was kind of what I wanted to be I wanted to be the guys I admired the most kind of growing up besides my father was my high school coaches And so I kind of wanted to follow in their footsteps So I was happy and I stayed on there for six years Wow, I think that's I I love that because I for me the backbone. I think of Coaching is teaching and I know that's something that you've talked about before When you were kind of at the high school level, how how did you see that? Incorporating not only in what you were doing then but who you are now as a defensive coordinator in the league Well, I think there's a couple things that came really from the very early beginning there in high school is number one Um, you know, you had to prepare lesson plans. You had to prepare ahead Um, everybody doesn't learn at the same rate You know, I think your object as a teacher was not to see how many people you could fail It's how many can you benefit to really understand the stuff that you're trying to teach and Um, get the most out of them and so everybody is at a different level And so you got to learn how to deal with that and you got to have patience because every like I say everybody's not going to Just come natural to them And really that's even true in the nfl Every every defensive back doesn't play at the same level some catch on real quick some maybe not so much So but it's your job to get them to all be at the same level. So how you going to do that? I think the other thing is that Um, in high school you inherit who you have you don't recruit You know, it's not like college. Okay, we can go out and recruit this guy or we can draft this guy in the nfl Hey, I got whoever I got a guy's got to go play my free safety. You got to go play linebacker for me I got to figure out how the parts fit now. What what can this guy do best? How can we fit him into this and I think that's how you become a successful high school coach You deal with so many personalities you deal with parents You deal with all that kind of stuff that's kind of from the outside in but I think it really Helps you to become a teacher and it and you also have to stand in front of a classroom all the time And you're you're talking and teaching It's not take something off a computer And you know like nowadays a little bit more than than I think it should be is too many guys spend too much time on the computer And not enough time with people You had to teach and I think that that's I'm really really grateful for the way that I I did come up Um, it didn't take over it didn't happen overnight But I really am thankful for the way it did and I really I'm just so grateful that I was a high school teacher to start out with What are come as some of the the stories that you have from being a high school coach and teacher? I know uh, I think back to What my dad did growing up your mo in the field you are trading film you are doing It's kind of you're doing everything. You know now it's like oh these coaching staffs at the pro level they have Underlings who can do everything but at the high school level it is you doing everything So what was what was kind of your week like as a high school coach? Well, it was in the summer I mowed the fields lined the fields That's kind of what you did we put on a camp every summer, but it was free We got some of the mothers of the players to you know make snacks and drinks and all that stuff and And that's how you really got going you weren't in it. It didn't have anything to do with money There wasn't any uh, so it's it's It was just it was very very when you look back on it is just so rewarding I think sometimes it's it's sometimes, you know, when you're when you're a kid You don't know how good your childhood is until you become an adult Well, I think it was the same way In coaching I don't know how Much fun and how much I actually enjoyed being a high school coach until I became a coach later on And how much I appreciated what I had to do and what other coaches have to do That's why I admire high school coaches. We need more of them I really feel like in society. We're always trying to find All these psychological things to help kids that you know, there's just way too many shootings and things like that going on nowadays How about if all the kids in the high school or 80 percent of them were involved in an extracurricular activity after school? Well, it doesn't have to be football. It could be any sport. It could be music. It could be plays It could be any of that stuff How much more beneficial would that be to maybe put money into the high schools? In this country then it would end up all these other programs You know, so they aren't going on home and sitting around and being alone or playing, you know on on Some of these games that they play on video games. How about if we could get kids more involved? Well, you got people right there in the high school that will do it But they also You shouldn't have to do it for free, right? And so, you know, maybe we ought to pump some money in that way I know i'm talking politics there a little bit, but I just really feel like sometimes that that's all kind of gone by the Wayside and there's Programs being dropped because they say well, we don't have the money to support this program or that program I just think that's a tragedy. Yeah, I think too like you talk about You know people being alone being in I think Growing up always being around a team and being a part of a team That was something that really kind of shaped me into who I am and I know it's something that shapes Even the players at the professional level into who they are is being a part of a team What are kind of some memories that you have of those early days and and kind of Forming these teams and and you were talking about how at the high school level you don't get to bring in Who you want to you have these guys who you just kind of have What was kind of your way of of building these teams? Well, I think the biggest thing was is I we I took over a program that had not won in a long time So the number one thing was kind of being positive and trying to convince them that they can be good Um, there's so much more of that than people really realize at all levels Yeah You know you you become in a rut if if you just aren't having a lot of success people have a tendency to Kind of drop down to the level that everybody puts them at instead of trying to go past that But you know also being at the high school I was a head football coach I was the jv basketball coach and the head track coach And so the other part of that is not everybody that ran track played football Right not everybody that played football ran track or and then there were certain guys in basketball That was their thing so you also find out that everybody doesn't have the same interest you do You know and that's okay, you know, but they so you coach them all different, you know, I can't go in you know as as a Basketball coach and treat it like I did as the football team, you know You know giving them a rah rah speech before you know to go out and hit somebody was was not gonna work Not not real good when they fouled out So then and then after a couple years as a basketball coach They asked me if I want to be the assistant wrestling coach. Well, I'd never wrestled in my life I didn't know anything about it, but I thought, you know, I'll be interesting. So I did it and Basically, they let me go as a basketball coach because I got too many technicals So they moved me over to wrestling and so then I became the assistant wrestling coach Like I said didn't know anything about it But then I get a whole different appreciation for what those guys go through You're out there on the map by yourself. You're not playing on a team It's you and against the other guy and there's nobody you can ask for help You know, you're not calling for the safety or the linebacker to help you out. There's it's you and so Different appreciation for that same thing with the track guys It's you against the clock and against the other guys So you learn a lot about people and how to handle people And to me that was the most rewarding thing about high school and then You know Everybody always talks to me about the Super Bowls and stuff, but the truth of it is is that The satisfaction of watching That high school team have their first winning season in 20 years Was very very rewarding. It took a lot of work had nothing to do with money The assistant coaches that were on my staff I mean those guys got peanuts to help be an assistant coach. Maybe 500 for the year and just the You know, just the the great satisfaction of taking a a group like that that hadn't won and watching them win Was just really really satisfying. Yeah, I I I love that because It is I mean, I I think a lot of people Get it don't get into coaching for The money they get into it because they love people and love their players Um, and I I think that shows most evident in the fact that you got so many technicals as a basketball coach I have a story. Yeah. So when I was 13 years old I was at my sister's my younger sister's basketball game. It was just like a wreck game It wasn't anything significant and I got a technical in the stands Not because I was technically yelling but because I was sitting beside my mom and we both were yelling and She yelled to this this poor young referee that he sucked and I was like, yeah He does and then he turned around and said get out of here. So I can relate to that. What is your Favorite tech getting a technical story that you ever had well actually is the first game I ever coached as a jv coach the first one and and the head coach The varsity coach was our athletic director. Okay, obviously You know, this is my boss right not twice not only is the basketball coach, but as the ad And so we're in an away game And I don't remember. There's some call goes on, but I do remember it's gibsonberg high school and You know is different than in football. I walked right out to midcourt and started getting the officials. I mean You're not supposed to be out here. It was the first thing he told me Then the second thing was he teched and gave me a technical And then I kind of looked around and there's our athletic director shaking his head going. What have I done? And so that was I I do remember my very first technical as a coach. Yeah, you never you never forget I love that. It was funny too because Yeah, the coaching basketball and coaching football It's a very different beast and I liked what you were talking about in terms of like Having to choose and understand how each Not only like each team works, but coaching and teaching each individual person Um, you've had a almost 50 years of doing this. Is there a player who learned in a Different way that you kind of had to go back and be like I need to figure out how this this player learns And because it's very different than maybe somebody else Well, I don't I don't know if I could say and I probably wouldn't say who it was but Every player learns a little different and and some can just look at the film And boom pick it up some of them you can actually draw a diagram and they can pick it up Some of them you got to go out there and rep it two or three times before they truly understand It doesn't matter bottom line is how do I need to get it taught? You know, everybody doesn't probably learn math quite the same way or you know or anything else and Even if some people can read a book and tell you everything It's in the book me I got to go back and back and back and back and write notes and do all that kind of stuff So everybody does learn differently, but I think the other part of it is that Everybody comes from a different background too And the more you know about their background as a teacher or as a coach This is kind of fast-forwarding a little bit, but in college I wanted as a head college coach I wanted to visit every player that played for me's home Which is hard to do it's a lot of players. Yeah, but I did it every spring When most the coaches would go junior recruiting I went and visited the homes of guys who are already on my team Because it helped me understand. Is it a tough background? Is it a very affluent background? Is it a very poor background financially? Who runs the family? Is it mom? Is it dad? Is it grandma? Are there is there a dad in the picture? Is there parents in the picture? If you understand those dynamics, you also maybe understand a little bit About the player a little bit more and to me that was really really important It was easy to do when you're recruiting a kid out of high school Because you're going on the home visits and you get to kind of see But you don't know about the guys that are already were on your team And then eventually you know them all because you've recruited them all if you're there long enough and it It transcends into the nfl Oh really because I'll give you an example of a young man one time that we're playing in a playoff game And Every Wednesday As long as I've been a coordinator in the nfl. I have what I call a signal callers meeting Yes, and I take a guy from each position and we come in and I talk to them about Here's before I ever talked to the defense. Here's what our game plan is. What do you guys think? So they have a little input in it to it because it's it's their team Right And so like like when I was a Baltimore, I mean it was ray lewis edry Terrell Suggs and hello d nada. I mean it was incredible. You know, I was a I should have taken a picture So I can remember walking into them one time and telling him here's what You know, I we want to do against this team that we're playing in the playoffs. So I mean this is big now Yeah, we can't be wrong, right? All right. So then I tell him that And and I I'll never forget edry's face is that I tell him that I'm going to put this one corner In charge of making the disguise call Okay, we're going to try to disguise the coverage on this quarterback And I want everybody to look the same And the kid that I talked about was a kid that always had had come from a couple different teams and had trouble adjusting and just kind of was Just had trouble. Yeah And so ed looked at me like you're going to do what? I said I am yeah Because here's the thing about it is he's never been in charge anything Nobody's ever given him that Responsibility he's always been put in a follower role somebody else was in charge and you have to do what they do The truth of the matter is is I don't really care what we disguise It's just I want them both corners to be exactly the same So I know this corner over here is going to do exactly what I tell him to do Him the guy that I'm talking about Sometimes does sometimes he doesn't But if he's in charge, I know the other guy will do exactly I said and I'm going to point it out in front of the whole defense who I'm going to put in charge of the disguise I said wait till you see his face I will bet you that he perks right up sits up and all of a sudden like somebody gave me Some credibility and some responsibility Because I knew about this kid's background And it wasn't good right And so when I did it that day Ed comes back to me because man, you were right I turned around and looked at him and it was like Somebody had just given him Something special. Yeah, and you're in charge And he took that and ran with it and had a heck of a year had a heck of a game And we won it and went on to the Super Bowl So it was just something like that But that not if I hadn't known his background if I just would have said wow Hey, I'm not gonna put that guy in charge. I'm gonna put this guy in charge It benefited him, but it benefited us And in the only reason I kind of did it was because I knew that he needed that And that would help all of us and it did. Yeah, I mean that was what I was going to ask is like Why that moment like why did you want to give him that responsibility? I mean you talk about it's a big game. It's a playoff game. Like this is This is it you win or you or you lose and that's it and so Why was it that moment that you felt compelled to do that because it fit Because I like I say it didn't matter what the disguise was I didn't care if they lined up in cover two and played cover three or if they lined up in cover three and played cover two It didn't matter What mattered was that we just had a disguise I didn't want the quarterback to be able to before the ball was ever snapped to know exactly what the coverage was So it didn't matter how we disguised it. It just mattered that we did So it was a perfect timing to put him in charge of it Because it didn't really it wasn't There wasn't anything schematically. He couldn't screw it up. Right. He couldn't yeah So whatever he chose to do was going to be right And it was just so the timing of it was It just it happened. I just thought about it at the time and I thought okay I got to put somebody in charge of this and I thought it's the perfect time to put him in charge I I love that because I think that it's You go going back to what you're talking about is like knowing the background of a player And kind of knowing how much they can handle versus what they can't handle I I think you even talked about it even taking over this falcons defense last year and And you made the comment like I'm not trying to fit the the players To the scheme a good coach a good coordinator fits the scheme to the players And how much like When you're looking at like background and thinking about who you have available How much do you cognizantly think about that and how much you as a coordinator are changing to fit the person that you have Oh all the time. I would hope that all coaches would do that. It's The easiest analogy. It was okay. If you have an option quarterback That you high you recruited out of high school to to go in are you going to make him a drop-back quarterback in college? No There was a reason why he had success in high school because it was an option quarterback and can run Okay, so you're going to adapt your offer. I would hope You you probably most times you're recruiting guys to what you want to do if you're a drop-back college team You're going to recruit a drop-back guy The thing that hit me was in the in the nfl Especially, you know, you only have 45 guys dressed on game day, right, you know, maybe 22 guys on defense So You know if a guy goes down, okay, let's say that we want to play man coverage And we got a corner. We got maybe too cold. Hey, if you're blessed you have two corners that can play man coverage But one of one of them gets hurt or rolls an ankle or does something like that And the next guy up isn't a good man coverage team or guy So are you going to say then what my guys you're going to play man coverage? No matter what you're going to get killed so The year we won the super bowl in baltimore in 2012 If i'm not mistaken, we started seven different corners that year because of injuries and things Well, we changed the game plan every week. Sometimes we played a lot of cover two Sometimes we played a lot of cover three. Sometimes we played a lot of cover man And so I mean we we got it. We had we brought a kid in one day on a tuesday And was playing on he was going to have to start on sunday against the team that just cut him Oh Now you think they might know a little something about him Well, there's no way am i going to put him in it's not fair to put him in harm's way and say Bye guys. This is what you're going to have to do We're going to what does this guy when we watch the film on him from the other team? What does he do best? Well, that's what we're going to end up having to do. I got to kind of configure it and do some things And to me, that's what you do as a coach is it's just it's not fair to a player if he's not a good blitzer Why would you be blitzing him if he's not a good pass rusher? Why would you be putting him in a situation and then everybody's screaming at him like why can't this guy do it? Well, you know you're putting him in an unfair advantage There's some things they just got to do because it's part of the defense, but for the most part you're trying your best to Put guys in positions so they can have success because that's how you're going to have success Kind of going going back to to what you were saying about Going into players homes and getting to know them You after coaching at the high school level for six years You made the jump to college and you made many stops there Miami, Ohio, Toledo, michigan state. I could go on but for you And and then of course the head coaching job at can't state What were you like as a recruiter? I know recruiting now is very different. It's almost like it's own machine now But at the time is probably 80s 90s. What was recruiting like at that time? I liked it. Yeah, I did enjoy and I didn't like to travel necessarily all the time but I actually like going in and visiting with parents because I was a parent and I wanted to make them feel like I'm going to treat their son like I would treat my son, you know I'm going to take care of him. I'm going to I'm going to do everything I can to make sure he graduates from college That's going to be the number one thing. I know he was going to play football and football is going to help pay the bill But his chance of the playing in the NFL You know or slim and so I know that and a lot of guys that I recruited They were the first person in their family to go to college and so mom's looking at him going I want this guy to get an education and so therefore as a father. I wanted to project that image that You're I'm going to take care of your son. He's not going to be just a football player in my eyes He's going to be a young man And and I'm going to take care of him and I wanted to portray that And but I did enjoy it And I didn't Now you have to be a negotiator. Oh, yeah 100 and so the difference then was though That I sold the school Not me or even the football program Because coaches can change. Yeah Okay, your son goes to michigan state if you come to michigan state You're coming to michigan state because it's got a good academic program that you're interested in It's got a good football program and good people that are going to treat you right Because two years from now i'm working for nick save and he he was mentioned for every head coaching job there was in the country Yeah, so everybody was always using recruiting against us saying well, you're going to go play for save And he's not even going to be there next year. I go. Yeah, he might not be I didn't try to take the other approach like oh, no, he's going to be I don't know him He might not be now they look like a liar I said, yeah, he might not be But if you're choosing michigan state because of nick save and you choose a michigan state for the wrong reason You should be choosing michigan state because of the academics that you can get the school the people The overall atmosphere of michigan state If you're not then yeah, you shouldn't come to us I don't know if i'll be there next year. Who knows this is a coaching profession people move Don't pick a school because of a person pick up because of the school I don't think that's the case anymore. It's changed a lot that way. It's pretty crazy. So recruiting was different. Yeah, you know And i'll go back even to Like in college even at kent state, you know My wife every thursday night we had 10 players over to our house off the team We spread it out over the course of you know 10 games And so but if we had you know 85 to 90 guys on the team Every player that was on our football team Had a home cooked meal in our house on thursday night And so they got to see my house and what it was like and where it was and all that stuff And so it took a little more of a personal look than he's just the coach And you know i'm probably a whole lot different at home that I was on the field And so and it just I think just sharing That helps guys understand guys are always going to play harder for you if they know you care about them And so it's kind of That's how recruiting was to me. It was get to know people more than it was just recruit somebody. Yeah What uh, what'd y'all eat during those those visits to to your house anything and everything? Yeah, a little bit of everything. It could be burgers. It could be hot dogs. It could be barbecue It could be a little bit of everything. I didn't know if it was like we're gonna have this every single thursday night Are you a superstitious type in terms of coaching? Not too much. So I my dad was very superstitious and there was one time we had to eat I think it was subway. It was like we had to have subway And this is not a podcast sponsored by subway unless subway you want to sponsor the podcast But we would eat subway every single like sunday night Because they kept winning and it was like that was the thing I don't know why it was that that we fixated on but it was like we have to eat subway Or we have to eat pizza hut. So what if you lost did you never eat subway again? We didn't eat it for the rest of the season Which is very unfortunate because I like a good sandwich. So I mean that's just how it was But no, I I love that and I think that's you're right the players and I think The impact that players like coaches have on players lives. They don't know who you are They don't there's no impact there and I think that's super super important. Um I said you talked about Coaching with Nick Saban and in this area in the Atlanta Georgia area. He is someone who's very very well known and his career is very very well known What's your favorite Nick Saban story from your time coaching with him? Oh I gotta be careful here. I know so no he Nick treated me Absolutely great and and I know people would think this is probably hard to believe but In in I was Nick Saban's defense coordinator twice, right? Yes. You you were with him He got to he got a lot of people don't know he was the head coach at the University of Toledo, right? And he was only there a year and so I was higher he hired me as his defense coordinator We went nine and two won the league and he leaves And goes to the Browns as a defensive coordinator And here we are nine and two But we all got retained and stayed on and with a guy named Gary Pinkle who was also a great coach and So then when I I left on later and went to Notre Dame And Nick went to michigan state and hired me back as his defensive coordinator So nick has always been great to me and my family and I people will find it's hard to believe But in all the time that I coached for nick he never raised his voice One time at me never And I think he knew that I always had was loyal had mutual respect for him and would never do anything that He didn't want But I do recall one time We're out and we had what we call pre-practice and I go out and I kind of walk through and talk through the stuff That's going to go through in practice and so I go out and I'm Going through all the stuff with the defense and he wasn't out there and he kind of walked out late And then he started to talk about something that I'd already covered And I was in a hurry because I wanted to get everything done before the whistle blew to start practice And I just looked at it goes. Hey, I've covered that Kind of that like that and as soon as I did I was like what the heck have I done and all players Like oh god dead silence He didn't say a word We went on way of practice Later that night though, I got a telephone call. Oh gosh. All all was was Next time I walk out late. I'd appreciate it very much if you didn't use that tone with me. Yes, sir You're good coach. I I knew I was wrong two seconds after it left my mouth. So but he treated me absolutely great It's it's so great when you know, you had um You had all these experiences at the college level and then you get you get to become your own head coach at kent state What was that experience like and and why did you want to to make that jump? and also Something that we've talked about recently is that was a very meaningful Time for you in your career. So so can you kind of just take me through those years well, that First of all my I had three bosses in a row Nick Saban Gary Pinkle and Lou Holt and they're all kent state graduates. Wow. Yeah, I know so Uh And I grew up in the mid american conference with the school of bowling green I coached as defense coordinator in miami of ohio defense coordinator to leto. So I knew the league really well and loved the league It's very competitive. It's not high-profile and all that but it's very good football and Just just I really loved the league so The kent state job kind of opened up and they actually contacted me And I think probably because of nick and lou and gary and I know there were some people thought maybe I shouldn't take this job because they had lost for a long Time and it was not good losses. It was it was not good But part of the reason it attracted me that job attract I was attracted to that job was the same thing as high school One of them I told you early on one of the most rewarding things I ever did was having a first winning season in Years at that high school. Yeah, and I thought Okay, whoever takes over for nick saving at alabama You got about one way to go and that's that. I mean, how are you gonna? Yeah, you're gonna fill those shoes And it's kind of like when I went to new england Yeah, I won a superbowl my first year there, but they won the superbowl the year before Did I feel a sense of accomplishment? Well, yeah, I didn't screw them up But I didn't build them Bill Belichick built it So this was an opportunity because can we take a program that is really down and down And let's see if we can change it and that's such a gratifying Satisfying feeling it wasn't high school So I wanted to kind of relive that a little bit at the college level And we did and we turned the thing around guys like josh cribs and james harrison and some other guys And it took some player But what a gratifying feeling To finally have the first winning season Then in 2001 and we beat ben rothelsberger on the last play of the last game to go six and five And people would have thought we'd won the superbowl What a gratifying Feeling that was and it was hard work. There wasn't a lot of money at those schools You got to really work hard. You're fighting an uphill battle and recruiting Not only financially, but because you've been losing for so long, you know, Culture is everything. Hey kids are looking at you. Yeah Yeah, I recruited daver gone It's on our staff and it came down to us in louisville And I know why you went to louisville and louisville was having winning seasons and we weren't and he was high-profile quarterback out of cleveland, ohio and so It was just those six years where it was very very very gratifying. Yeah Can you walk me through that? recruiting process of daver gone, you know what daver gone helped me more than any Coach or player ever in recruiting really I'll tell you how and he knows it because I gave him credit for daver gone Was a very high-profile st. Ignatius high school, which is a great high school in cleveland, ohio state champions first up so it comes down to us and louisville And the thing about dav was, you know, most recruits are the high school coach is going to tell you go Hey, he recruit, you know, he committed to louisville Dave didn't dav came down and told me in person Coach i'm going to louisville. I really loved it here. I loved my visit here You know, I like your staff. I like all this stuff what you're doing, but i'm going to louisville date. Why? Tell me why because this would have been a coup for us to get this guy out of cleveland He goes it's just I've grown up all the time. I won't read in the cleveland playing dealer and everything and everything about kent state football was negative You know louisville pretty positive. It's not It's like everybody would probably stop him in the hallway and say, you know, hey, where are you going to school? Dave and dav go, well, it's between kent louisville and kent You know, so I don't think he could he couldn't overcome that like the reputation Yeah, and he also wanted to be an NFL player until he thought my chances are going to be better I was selling to him come here and help us build something special. You can be the guy so He didn't But he told me in person Which tells you a little bit about him as a man and as a young boy 17 18 years old to have you know, usually they have the coach call you had to tell you So I looked at that and I go, okay, so this guy loved it here He's a high profile guy He liked his visit. He liked the school. He liked the staff and he still didn't choose us What's that tell me? So I changed my whole recruiting program And said i'm going east because we were in Ohio school and we tried to recruit nothing But Ohio a lot of Ohio kids, which we still did But we're fighting Toledo Miami of Ohio You got Ohio State and then everybody else came comes into Ohio and recruit Syracuse all Penn State all I need to go somewhere where people don't know as much about Kent State football So I went to the east coast and I kind of the kid named josh cribs And a couple other guys And all of a sudden it turned the whole thing around. Yeah, then we went back to recruiting Ohio hard once we started winning So it was like they were going by not coming Actually helped me turn the program around because I took a different direction than recruiting. That is fantastic. I This is the podcast material that I was looking for. I love this It's really great. And I it's interesting because we've kind of gone through your high school Experience your college experience and the next time that you pop on the podcast, which this is going to be a separate part We're going to get into you making the jump to the league and and all of the experiences that come along with it Maybe hopefully get some bill bell check stories in there But thank you for joining me today and we're really looking forward to having you on in a couple days my pleasure