 Great. Thank you all for coming to the Blender Education Community Meeting. We're just keeping the doors open because it's quite hot in here. So there will be some disturbance maybe for people walking around as we're sitting next to the kitchen. But I hope we can have a nice meeting and it cools off a bit in this room. So cool. We're going to talk about a bit of Blender Education. So welcome everybody. As the talk already mentioned, this is a community meeting. So it's about you communicating and meeting. So just to see who's doing what with education, getting to know each other before we dive into all kinds of subjects. I would do a round, would like to do a round. Introduce yourself. What are you doing with Blender? What are you teaching? And if you can show something, let me know because usually after the introduction there is room for people to show students work. I know Tobias is showing something and maybe perhaps the people from Ubisoft are going to join in a bit later to show something about the Blender Jam. So starting with me. I'm Monique. Yes, I'm teaching Blender at a school and a high school at the moment. So I'm just going to go around with the microphone. Hi, I'm Tobias. I'm teaching Blender in the Blender Summer School in Germany. It's a German speaking school which I will talk about later. Hi, I'm Andre. I'm a teacher but not teaching Blender at the moment. Cedric, I'm part of Active Design with a school in France dedicated to free graphic software. So we teach Inkscape, Scribbers, Blender, Godot and many other software since 2005. Hi, I'm François. I'm teaching Blender and Unreal Engine to an engineering school in France. Me too and I fight to the school leave 3 days max for Blender. Yes. Hi, I'm Alessandro. I teach Blender at different levels from high school to Academy of Fine Arts in Bologna to workshop for professionals, so applying to 3D printing and computational design stuff. Hi, my name is Peter. I work in Poland at the University of Gdańsk and I'm teaching Blender possibly everywhere. Like Blender Evangelist, I deliver Blender to the University and I'm teaching mainly graphics, animation, simulation. And this year I proposed 17 new classes entirely based on Blender. So I think it will be going next year, so that will be a good thing, I think, if I succeed with that. My name is Mary. I'm not teaching Blender at the moment from an Australian university but I am trying to get them to take on Blender. Hi, I'm Chris. I'm from Brisbane in Australia and I was at a university and I convinced them to go from Maya to Blender and then now we've gone back to Maya. So I lost the battle temporarily but now I'm teaching some police to do forensic animation in Blender and they're very interested in Blender. Hi, I'm Lech. I've started the Chocopher.com website where we focus on teaching how to use Blender in architectural visualization field. Hi, I'm Brandon. I'm with theorangegild.com and we're working on building an online platform for Blender artists and trying to get certifications going for different artists using Blender. Hi, I'm Louis. I've started YouTube channel back two years ago and it's been really good so far. I have been teaching Blender mainly for game development and VFX. Hi, I'm Christoph. I'm teaching Blender for 12 years maybe, longer. I teach children from well 10 till they give up. I make movies. I print. I do everything there's interest in as long as there's Blender involved, of course. I think I'm from very far away. I'm from China, in Hong Kong. So we have a magazine called the Global Animation Magazine. You guys can get a copy of this. We try to get Blender into China to teach from high school. So I'm interested in people, how you can get a program into high school and then to university and then to the studio as well. So our schools start with, we have a research center in the university, in Shenzhen University. So hopefully next year we can introduce Blender into China. I'd like to talk to anybody who's interested to teach, how to start from high school students about Blender. What we're going to do is after the introduction a few people will show their work and who to buy it. And then we can have a discussion on that and we can share thoughts on that topic. I'm Oliver Villar. I used to run Blendus.com in English. Now I'm focusing on the Spanish community because there is a lack of educational content there. So I'm running Blendus.es. I plan on coming back to English tutorials next year. So looking forward to that. It's one of the reasons I came this year here. And I'm the author of the book Learning Blender and I teach at the university in Spain also with Blender. Everything with Blender. Another Peter. I'm teaching in Japan just the introduction computer graphics lesson. And then also doing and touching a little bit of virtual reality for the university, creating it in 3D, looking at it in the 3D virtual reality viewer. I'm Ruben. I started months ago teaching middle schoolers Blender for games. Now I'm working in Brussels as a teacher in a professional training center for programmers so they can communicate with animators and artists. So I'm teaching them that bridge. I'm Eric and I run a website called ArtisticRender.com and I write long format articles because I found that there is so much video content and almost no one is writing about Blender. So that's kind of what I do. Hi. My name is Evgeny and I'm not really an educator. I'm a tech art-related crazy panda game development company. But one of these days I hope to show the world the wonders of the tech art field and Blender is a great tool to start because it has Python. It is open source so you can even extend it. Hi. My name is Jeroen. I'm not really a teacher. I'm more a developer for Blender but I'm curious in what's being said here. Hello. I'm Giulio. I'm not really a teacher and I'm working with Alessandro Zamparelli. We are trying to create a specific training course for prosthetics and orthotics model in Blender and so now we're trying to develop this in order to 3D printing. So it's very specific but something we're starting. Hi. I'm Georg from Berlin. I'm a film and video director in general. VFX artists. I'm not teaching Blender yet but I would like to in the future. I'm Gary from Dublin in Ireland. I don't work directly with Blender professionally at the moment but we have a partnership with an online training course platform called DataCamp and one of the languages they focus heavily on is Python and I'd be interested in the idea of a module by them for Python scripting in Blender. I'm Kira. I'm from Dublin as well. I'm not teaching Blender at the moment but something I'd be interested in in the future. So there's a lot going on when it comes to teaching in Blender and we started this community meeting I think three or four years ago because many people were asking and basically many students were asking like hey what is Blender doing with teaching because we want to learn about Blender but there is not much material out there really focusing on students. So three years ago we started B3D 101 which was a really initiative from Peter Camp the people from the UK running 3D AMI and me and I think people from the German Python community Peter Koppatz was involved as well and we said okay we just create a website because we were sending all these tutorials to schools and kids you know what we create a website we put everything online and schools can use the material and learn Blender and it kind of got a bit out of hand because we indeed got a lot of schools using our tutorials. These tutorials are set up in a way that is really accessible for young students so it's not doing like ten shortcuts in one minute it's really building up very slow the idea is that we focus on learning the basics and it's video and handwritten because we've seen that some students don't like watching videos and can't learn from watching videos and we've recently released 2.8 tutorials those are just the videos but not the handwritten tutorials yet and we try to translate them to multiple languages. So this was something we've set up three years ago and suddenly we found ourselves our material also on the Code Club platform of the Raspberry Pi Foundation so it's also really nice to see that many initiatives have adopted the tutorials to teach young students about Blender and I've already got a request from the Blender the Raspberry Pi Foundation like hey when are the 2.8 tutorials ready and it kind of spread so we've seen a lot of schools now using tutorials teaching Blender not being afraid of teaching Blender because that was one thing we ran into that a lot of teachers were saying hey Blender is really too complicated and I don't have time to learn I'm a teacher I already have this pile of work I'm not going to spend time on it so we said okay you know I know so we created these tutorials we kind of tested them with students and we kind of figured a way to teach these tutorials to set up these tutorials so that kids can basically learn by themselves and that's basically what's happening if I'm looking at my school the students are basically learning by themselves and they don't need me anymore so this year when 2.8 was released I came in September and it was like oh yes Monique look here 2.8 I'm already creating these kind of cool things I was like cool guys I haven't made the tutorials yet but cool that you are already busy with it so this platform is basically set up for young students and I put the H10 Plus there but we really got students from 6 years and 8 years old so I think that's a bit young but they were already practicing and this is really mainly focused on young students absolute beginners and trying to learn them the basics and start to have them create themselves one type of feedback we got back from a lot of students is yes okay there are a lot of tutorials out there you can learn from YouTube but at the end if somebody would ask me how to create something I have no clue where to start so either I will copy what I've seen on YouTube but I cannot think for myself and this is like feedback we get back many times from young students who try to learn from YouTube videos and somewhere get stuck because they cannot create things by themselves so yes we have the 2.8 tutorials we need to work out the step by step description I know we had the Code Club from Belgium emailing me 2 days ago like hey when are you gonna have those available it's coming we're still working on it so to make at least these tutorials available they're free they're online you can try them in your classes we do still if we have the step by step descriptions we are still looking for people to translate them to different languages so that we can reach out to multiple kids I know you said you were talking about teaching in Spanish and I know we've translated the 2.7.9 tutorials to Latin Spanish and there was a huge interest so I know there are even in the people from South America were asking can you please do Latin Spanish because we do want to learn there was Carlos Santana he's from Venezuela now in Bolivia he did the translation in Latin Spanish and it was really we have like 12-1500 unique users per month staying minimum time of 7 minutes on our website so people are really learning trying to learn from this and getting the multilingual out there it really helps bridge the gap so maybe we have Chinese someday that would be great but again they're free, they're out there and teachers can use them to create tutorials we have also 3D Ami unfortunately Peter and Tom couldn't be here they do usually the education meeting together with them but they did, they asked me can you mention we did the 3D Ami Summer Studio they do a 7 days creator role movie with young students aged 14-18 and it's really great what they create every year and they really run it like a studio so they do storyboarding I think they got a bit too compositing this year but it's farm teams and just get the studio like experience and I think they're gonna publish the results soonish and it's really great to see what they are creating what their students are creating so that's a bit what I know is happening on the 3D Ami there is really much more going on I know Tobias is doing the Blender Day and also the weekend school so he will be talking a bit about that and I know Ubisoft has been doing the Blender Jam now they promised that they would come in the second part of this talk to show what they've been doing with the Blender Jam but let's see how it goes and then we'll go into a bit more discussion Hi, my name is Tobias I'm the co-organiser of the German based Blender 3D Summer School and we were trying to find a way to teach Blender to everybody who is interested in Blender so pupils, students, freelancers all the persons we have all of them the age range is very broad and I would like to show you some insights what we have learned about it we offer 10 workshops each year each workshop lasts for 3 hours so this is a long workshop our speakers need to prepare for this you cannot from stand up give it a 3 hour workshop with a good concept so we have to pay those speakers they prepare everything in advance and we have a concept that has a specific topic in the centre, a specific story in the centre so we do not teach some special technical method but we, for example for the EV workshop we make up a story with it so this is our finding that is very important to reach young people to give them some idea what you can do with it finally and you will just tell a story for example like this where a rocket is flying through canyons and during that story there are so many technical stuff that we have to explain and this is what the workshop is about during the workshop we explain how we could do such a movie and what is also very important for learners that they have some kind of structure so here, up love is the German curriculum, the structure and this structure clearly says what we will do each after another so the people can prepare for it and we also prepare a zip file where you can download all the assets so we have a structure in courses so the workshop is structured in courses and for each course you can download a blend file and the advantage of this is that if someone gets lost he or she can follow very easily because she is just loading the blend file and then a new lecture starts in the workshop and everybody is up to date we also publish all the assets that the speakers have created for free under a CC by license so that everybody can use it and make whatever he or she wants to do with it besides the standard topics like modeling or shading or animation we also had two very important or very special workshops this year one was the EV topic and the second is a grease pencil animation because there was a lot of interest in those new functionalities of Blender 2.8 for our speakers it was a little bit overwhelming and sometimes a little bit too early because this summer school was held in July this year it was exactly two days before officially Blender 2.8 was released so even before it was officially released we had to prepare all the stuff and it was very clear that we wanted to make Blender 2.8 as the full version in our workshop for the next year we have something new and this is we invite our participants to vote for 20 workshops and the best 10 voted are then prepared the reason is in the feedback sessions always people complain about oh this topic is missing and I missed this and that and now we hope that the audience will vote their best their highest interest topics so we can then provide those topics for our participants after two days of workshop we have a day of presentations it's called the Blender Day and this year we were very honored that Andy Goralsik gave us an introduction how spring was produced I think he will reuse many of his slides tomorrow he will have the starting talk tomorrow and in July he already gave the German community some insights and this is also very great for our students and young people because they knew that if they go to the Blender school they also have contact and can speak to them to really great artists so it was a success in all areas I think after the school we invited eight participants to make a movie together so some of them never made any movie before even not a shorter one but we just invited them we paid them the accommodation and they had free lunch and then we together learned how to make an animation movie and Ruth was Ruth Famino was the creative director she was also she is still a pupil from Germany and we made this movie very short one it's just 1 minute 50 and during the making of that movie we learned a lot about how to work together in a team and this was also very interesting for the participants they did not only learn how to make stuff in an industrial like pipeline they also learned how to work together and how to specialize and what problems arise if you have a large team and distributed teammates and yeah it was very nice and I hope we can do this also in the next year because to make a real animation and to finish it it's a very great feeling for the participants okay I think that was my introduction thank you nice to see the progress basically you're going to do this next year as well right cool just a question is anybody thinking about doing a summer school any thoughts on that? so I'm thinking about doing something like that but I first have to find sponsors because the university is not going to help much with that I think sure so sponsoring is a very difficult topic especially or also in Germany I was looking for sponsors I was not that successful but fortunately the University of Applied Sciences offered the rooms for free and their computer laboratories so this was was a huge advantage and then we we had a fee that the participants had to pay it was 30 euros for students and pupils and 60 euros for freelancers who are not students anymore and that money was enough to pay the 10 speakers that had to prepare workshops so roughly we had at the end a balance about zero euros so it was financially affordable for us so the idea is that I'm creating right now something like Blender Day this is exactly the same name and in one month from now it will be in Poland in the end of November this is fifth year of such kind of event but this on constant rate the students great so no financial support at all and maybe I have to go business way I don't know that's the good idea I think from my own experience in the Netherlands we also try to create a Blender Day or something like that at schools but we have the same challenge finding funding is really hard and but we're still pushing and pushing currently something what's happening in the Netherlands for instance is we've had the same problem as you pointed out all the schools are using Maya or 3D smacks and so when we want to do something with Blender it was like we don't do that strangely there were a few young students years ago that loved Blender and are now teachers at high school and what you see happening is that they are starting to push for change within their schools so we had the high school of Amsterdam who's now the game development is moving to Blender and this was somebody who years ago was Blender fan got to become a teacher at the high school and now is pushing for Blender for game development and it's the university of applied sciences correct and they are now moving to Blender and you see this movement coming into the Netherlands so I have the arts school in Rotterdam they're now also thinking about moving to Blender so I got an email from them so it's a bit strange so now you get schools who were 5 years ago telling me no, we're not going to do Blender now we're going to change and strangely enough you always meet somebody there used to use Blender 5 years ago we're doing this now so it's happening and it was the unthinkable so what are you facing for instance as a challenge when you want to teach Blender in France for teaching Blenders there's no really challenge the schools where we are teaching are new and they're not in the Autodesk Maya to the S-Max cycle so when we come and propose a Blender you say okay so it's great but the school is still on the S-Max Maya for animation and it's really harder to convince to use to switch to Blender does anyone have also experience with that convincing schools to push for Blender we had another experience because when we created our schools many years ago we were teaching in other schools but those schools ask us to teach our to this S for example but we were using GIMP, Krita, Inkscape, Blender already so we just say if you don't want to use the software we really know but want us to teach something we don't know just create our school outside of that cycle and wait and see and now we can see that many schools use Blender and many schools use other free software programs like Python or anything else and many studios in France begin to use Blender to where known you have more phones if you use free software in animation movies so it pushes Blender yeah so in Spain I've been seeing a switch I think Blender 2.8 a lot of weight in that because it has changed the perception that people has about Blender and what I've seen is that even though most of the schools are still using 3ds or Maya because it's the industry standard this is starting to change and I have even been contacted by some schools that they are interested into getting into Blender because they are looking forward to a transition next year or in the next few years because they are tired of licensing problems of expensive licenses and while Blender is very easy in that regard both for the schools and for the students there is also something that I've been noticing happening more and more there is students themselves before they were like no but I have to learn max if I want to work in the industry some have been telling me that they are studying in a school in the school they teach them max or Maya but when they arrive home they work with Blender because they like it more so I think in the next few years we can expect a change in that regard yeah I have the same experience but for me we went to Blender we moved, we teach animation and we were Maya and we moved to Blender and it lasted for two years but it was this staff away from Blender because they didn't want to learn a new software so I think it's the students didn't care they were very happy with Blender they were very happy with whatever but the staff were the ones to convince because they had to spend a lot of months to transition if you're an expert in Maya you don't want to change you do not want to move and so they fought it to the nail and that was the hard thing the school didn't care, no one else cared the students didn't care but the staff didn't want to go shine but anyway that's why I think that the fact that the private software instead of facilitating the licenses are complicating it that will change maybe not the staff but the ones who make the decisions and put the money say that well we cannot afford this anymore so you have to learn yeah that too let me ask the questions student version of Blender so it's much easier for a student to learn because I'm not an animator I open the wheel pod and look at all the things I get confused and look at 10 years of kids that's a good question what in your opinion is a student version it's a stripped down of Blender 2.8 so what a student wants to learn building models, animations something very simple we can pick it up very fast because just to learn the manuals on the 2.8 a lot of kids they get scared so why don't we make a simple one this is a topic I had a few if you had waited one or two slides I had it because this is a discussion we had last year as well in Blender it is possible to create a template and that's a stripped down version of Blender the question was do we need a template to teach Blender at different levels do we need to strip it down so that was asking about the Blender 101 project is that what that was teaching Blender at different levels I seem to remember there was a Blender 101 initiative along with the application templates was it the same sort of thing the Blender 101 project was about these templates making it possible to create specific templates for different types of workflow so the question is do we need one especially given Blender 2.8 do we need one for education as is being suggested so we'll have to wait for some more discussions to see how those are implemented in the future well the thing is last year people thought that we might need a template I want to share a few experience so far because just to start who's teaching in Blender 2.8 great are you experiencing issues with Blender 2.8 I think you wanted to say something there's a problem that I know about is that certain schools were having problems with Blender 2.8 on Intel GPU drivers on Windows so I'm not sure I think the problem was that some students had a very old laptop that wasn't compatible with OpenGL 3.3 and also some Mac user that didn't update the system weren't able to use the 2.8 do you see any more problems the person actually I could add one thing because we are trying to educate people who are already professionals and are usually the commercial application users but we also see the trend of many of them switching to Blender I think mainly for the license reasons and simply for the usability but for us we are trying to reach an oriented community and most of the users in that community are Mac users and we are Windows users as creators so I would say here we are experiencing some problems because the shortcuts on Mac are a bit different and people from that community would like to empower themselves they don't necessarily need to create super advanced stuff in Blender they would like to have a application that simply helps them very quickly pushing some of the designs into the third dimension so for example instead of creating sets of drawings they simply create a very simple 3D geometry do a very simple render and then colorize it in Photoshop and this is the way they would like to present the ideas so as I said a lot of people from that spectrum uses Macintosh and to somehow connect those two audiences the people who want to make more professional stuff let's say advanced renderings using the NVIDIA GPUs then it creates this kind of problem that it's not available on Mac they have to use CPU that increases the render times and I would say this is something we are trying to find the optimal solution that would kind of strengthen the Mac users anybody any thoughts on that subject? I also heard that Macintosh users within the future suffer from being remained or being in a lack of support from Apple because there is metal things going on and no support for OpenGL and Vulkan so it's probably will die pretty quickly so Blender has no support at all for any kind of accelerated graphics if I could just randomly add a few things speaking of popularizing Blender, this year I was approached by the Technical University of Munich if I would like to have a course it didn't work out in the end for some reasons but it was very interesting for me to actually get approached by this class of university and they wanted to have some very basic Blender course engineering masters I think where they would just learn some basics how to present the simple animations of some technical things so I really think there is a lot of interest in the official educational institutions including Blender to their well, system I could say that Do you think, especially with Blender 2.8 and the growing interest do you see any challenges there apart from the Mac Windows issues you just described? Do you see any other issues? This year I was creating my first course in Blender which took me around 9 months so I started with the early 2.8 beta and actually throughout the entire beta progress I didn't have any problems once the official 2.8 was out the problems started for the users mostly but with the test versions of 2.81 right now I think all of the issues are solved so I would say it's just this transition period of the official version that costs some bucks for some people because basically I had the same I just started with Blender 2.8 and we just took a group of students who hadn't done anything with 3D before and we've just watched and trying to observe what was going on and I've came up with these kind of experiences I've noticed that Blender 2.8 was much easier than Blender 2.7.9 which for me was a huge surprise because it's a quite complex workflow and in 2.7.9 you start the cube already with the handles so our students are going to have problems with that they cannot immediately start they have to select a tool first before starting they have to select their environment before starting the workflow and to my surprise it wasn't so they could easily find the tools and start working when creating the B3D 101 tutorials it was much shorter so we would have 5 minutes video tutorials explaining the basics of how to grab rotate scale and now it was pretty easy mainly also because all operators are in menus so beforehand we had to teach kids all these shortcuts which is crazy we have a lot of things in the menus however I've noticed that a few menu items are still a bit not very logical for students like for instance subdivision is put under an edge and students are like technically it's correct but they don't understand why subdivision is placed under menu items a bit of best practices but we've been using EV and that really helps a lot it really brings down render times also switching to rendered mode students forget that they have to switch to rendered if they want to see the output especially the materials if you're using cycles with EV you can disable the use nodes and then you will see some errors in your viewport but with cycles you have to switch to rendered mode and that was something that all the students were forgetting and you could tell them 10 times no, switch to rendered mode so what we did in the second course is we let them already switch to rendered mode and continue modelling in that mode because they were all forgetting about it it's strange there's the microphone well at least we are all teachers and I like to make some little gaps in my lessons so they are saying I made a mistake because when I make mistakes they are recognizing more the nature so if you are leaving out this gap at the beginning they haven't got the chance to learn from this mistake my opinion beginner tutorials we let them switch in rendered mode what I'm seeing now because I'm constantly experimenting is that slowly they become aware of these mode switches so now they know but I let them start now in rendered mode because in the beginning it was annoying because they were constantly like why don't I see my college I need to go to rendered so I let them start in rendered mode and now they get the idea also the idea of the workflow it becomes clear because for many young students it's like why do I have all these steps upstairs so given these experiences I'm going to get back also to what are your experience do we think that given Blender 2.8 do we need a template for it do we need to strip out a lot of the menu items when teaching Blender just a question if I press new and select a workspace is this already a template or no this is called workspace it's just a workspace you can create a template for a specific workflow and it's something you can create yourself that was the Blender 101 project so it's creating this script that kind of leaves out I don't know all the menus and certain tools so you can create a specific template for animation for instance where you leave out all the modeling and the compositing and the video sequence editing stuff so students cannot click on them what we have experienced is already working very well is the workspaces that you can just go to the sculpting workspace or to this grease pencil to the animation workspace and you do not have to explain the window types as before like with .7 you just say hey press file new and then open the workspace and they can already immediately start to work and this is very great you have to explain how to get there to the tools you want to explain so this is I think for me it seems to be sufficient I would not say that I need another simplification of something because I can just make a screenshot of a specific workspace and then go through the buttons with the kids and then they understand how they are made for and what they can do with them and they cannot animate if they are in a sculpting session so all the complicated stuff is not visible there what you are saying bring back the workspaces as the workspaces are already available and that basically should be enough in addition to that last year I thought oh my god we are going to need a template but I was quite surprised to see how fast students were picking up with no template and the other thing I'm questioning whether a template should work is you want to make the step for a student to learn about all the other tools in Blender you want to make that step easy because what I see my students doing is well with the tutorials I learn how they can grab, rotate, scale do a bit of color aligning so now they are starting to explore for themselves and the whole exploring step is quite easy because well the buttons are there so they start experimenting and creating things and that's why I'm not sure if a template would work if a template would limit students in their creativity on the other hand it can make this complex user interface a bit more simple True So from my point of work and experience I don't see that students will need templates at all because Blender should be exposed in the whole entirety for them but I think that templates could be useful for scientists because this is another story the whole new subject if you prepare Blender for work with visualizations or for scientific stuff there is better to hide every possible button because scientists are scientists they just like to press things and mess things up About that for example with Giulio we did this add-on for medical stuff so they were focusing on doing just one thing we weren't interested in all the other part of the software so we isolated all the function that we had to use so maybe the template in general is useful for people that have a specific need and they don't have to waste time understanding the whole part of the software so for example if you're working with 3D printing it's better to have the tools that allows you to have a non-manifold geometry at the end for scientists for example the same thing Two things, one about the templates I believe that would be very confusing because you're teaching your students how to work with Blender but at the same time they come home they download Blender and they see something entirely different from what they are used to already that is a huge problem and the second one is sort of connected it goes with the complications of teaching Blender in general I have four nephews and I taught them Blender the problem I found is that my Blender is very different from vanilla Blender because I have all these plugins that help me do my work that much better and faster for example I use Boxcutter and DecalOps extensively and the problem there is that I cannot distinguish between Blender and using those plugins for me they are already a part of Blender and I do not see Blender without them so plugins are an entirely different complication I think actually there was a lot of discussion about this Blender 101 project and I think one of the reasons why it didn't go forward as fast as it was expected is that many people thought that it would sort of I don't know the words right now spread like make many different versions of Blender that you know people would look for a tutorial about 3D printing and the tutorial is using a totally different thing than the actual Blender so I don't know I think in my mind one of the uses of these that could be interesting is for very young kids that could help because if a young kid sees a sheet load of buttons they will get afraid but for most people I would suggest using the actual Blender that's what there was I wanted to say so it depends of the people you want to teach or what you want to teach for example we teach to postgraduate students or professionals so they just want to learn Blender and that's all not minus Blender of course if you have 10 years children maybe Blender would be too much for them and maybe it would be nice to have something simpler just to get on the most important functionalities so it seems easy to them in my experience teaching like 12 years old and 25 years old for me it's always a puzzle I have to solve by myself before because I grew up with Blender so for me it's a puzzle naturally solved the puzzle I try to solve every time I prepare a class for beginners is are the principles behind the user interface correct in my mind can I explain them put them in a explanation that people can visualize before looking at the program so for me the most important thing is first things first so basic theory on the principles and when they look at the buttons they're going to identify much easier second step for me when I'm solving this puzzle is training they're going to go through L going through every step buttons all the time during all day they're going to experience by themselves based on the theory we spoke before so they're going to have lots of time to explore by themselves so my strategy to solve this problem is very good theory basics on what is 3D modeling for instance and then make them discover by themselves one final word on the templates I can safely say I don't need one I just use the default stuff with a few alterations to make it easier and I just teach G, S and R and I teach the it's too late anyway so I would like to say a little bit different thing because we are talking before about this funding about courses, summer schools and gender days so I thought that it would be nice to reunite in some way and just organize ourselves in a way that allow us to exchange between countries maybe I would like to invite Tobias for example and for exchange I could go to your summer school to deliver some lectures things like that and universities and schools are more prone to international collaboration if they are listening to this this will be international that's the big thing maybe that will be easier for us to collaborate and I think it's important that we have a better teaching again so you all are invited my last topic we used to have the mailing list and we found out that a lot of educators were not using the mailing list I know in the beginning it was used a lot and it kind of died so if we are talking about collaboration but creating a channel and I'm talking out of experience a bit creating a channel means also involvement means if people have questions we need to answer and it's not just one person answering everything so if we decide because we can have a blender channel education channel like that and I think it would be good for a blender to have an education channel because there are a lot of cool things going on and to make visible that we are talking about professional education for blender to have a channel where people can come ask questions I know we need we used to have a slide group which was actively used just to ask peer questions like ok I'm running into this what are your experiences on this or how do you approach a problem like that so if there is interest we can create a blender chat or on blender chat an education channel but it also involves you as educators to make something out of it cool I think I have to wrap up sorry I had a lot of things I know the blender certified training was also a topic to discuss but we're here we're still at the blender conference so let's discuss at the bar and I hope you got a bit of your answers thank you