 Hi, welcome to the All Things LGBTQ Interview Show where we interview LGBTQ guests who are making important contributions to our communities. All Things LGBTQ is taped at Orca Media in Montpelier, Vermont, which we recognize as being unceded Indigenous land. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the show. Hi, everybody. I'd like to introduce Michelle T., who's 52, and a Massachusetts to San Francisco to Los Angeles Transplant, and the literary lion who pioneered, among many other cultural lightning rods, the notorious Dray Queen story hour, which we are all really grateful for and has had a lot of pushback, as we all know, in the last few years. The self-described queer feminist punk and working class poet burst onto the San Francisco scene in the 1990s. She co-founded the Feminist Collective Sister Spit, hosting queer open mic nights around the city and later homespun tours of spoken word artists in bars, galleries, bookstores and living rooms around the world. In 2012, Sister Spit spawned publishing imprint at City Lights, which T. ran until the feminist press invited her to helm her own imprint Amethyst auditions in 2015. T. left Amethyst four years later after months of mulling her options. She described and made a pitch to Ed, and is it pronounced Coltie, Ed Coltie, Edie L. Coltie. Yeah. And asked him to meet her at Found Coffee in Eagle Rock, where she told him she wanted to start a press dedicated to stylistic stories of unvarnished queer existence. Michelle T. will publish things that no one else would, and we appreciate it. Thank you. I just wanted to also tell the audience that we are both from Chelsea, Massachusetts. Yeah. Which is like, I mean, how unusual is that, right? It's very unusual. I really, I love it. I love it very much. I don't get to talk. Well, I mean, you know, I actually live with my mom, so I guess I talk every single day with someone who is from Chelsea, but it's really, it's really great to meet someone outside my family who's also from there. Yeah. And, you know, I'm two years ahead of your mother in school. I was ahead of your mother in school. Yeah. And it seems like I'm related to one of your stepfathers, Nephews, Danny, and so growing up in Chelsea, as we both know, is a working class town or city. And so, and I think we both had pretty interesting experiences there. It is culturally, as you were saying, I think in another interview, was that, you know, you don't feel like you have many opportunities there. Yeah. You know, like, like you're kind of just, you know, not the expectations are huge. No, certainly not. My parents thought if I graduated high school, I was doing good. And so I didn't, but you know, to the chagrin I did later, but so how did, how did growing out there affect and shape your art, do you think? Well, there's certainly, it's certainly a town with a big atmosphere. You know, I think that's safe to say it's very post-industrial, super urban and, you know, I kind of have always loved that in the city. And I think it is because I came from there. I think it's really interesting that, you know, even, you know, for all of the problems that I had with Chelsea and the ways that I felt like unseen or unsupported or actively conspired against by the city, there is, you know, you can't help but bond on some level, I think, to the place that you're from. And so I really love like a rusted bridge, a pile of rubble, you know, a spooky looking train tracks going into, you know, who knows where. But, you know, how it, I guess other ways, you know, I mean, growing up in that particular class milieu, you know, like what you're saying is like there wasn't a lot expected of you. What was interesting is, you know, my mom did have like hopes for me and my sister and wanted us to kind of do better than she did and did, you know, want us to go to college or there was like lip service paid to that. But then I think what happened was when we got to that age, when you start applying to colleges and looking at colleges, I think it was actually so overwhelming to my family, you know, even though it was like, yeah, you know, we want that for you in the abstract, right? Because that we see that as a way to get like a good life or a better life. But then there was actually no real understanding of how you apply to a school. It was so intimidating, the way that just to apply cost money, you know, it's like $50 an application, which was felt really significant in 1989. And so it ended up just being kind of a bust, you know, and I didn't really end up going to college. I mean, I went to Salem State for one semester, and then I went to UMass Boston for one semester. And then I was basically figuring it all out on my own. And I found it also incredibly overwhelming and didn't understand how or where to get support. So I just kind of dropped out, especially at the age I was at, I had started, you know, reading in, I mean, I've always been a big reader, but I just started understanding myself maybe as a writer a little bit, and started thinking that maybe I could do the things that I dreamt of doing without going to school. So I kind of set off very vaguely and shakily on that path. And then you ended up in, did you go right to San Francisco from Chelsea? No, I followed a girl to Tucson, Arizona, and did a really stupid back and forth between Tucson and Massachusetts, but like Provincetown and like was just following this girl around. And then that became clearly like a very bad thing to keep doing. And my really close friend who from East Boston, still one of my best friends, he had moved to San Francisco. And I really didn't know what to do. And when I realized how completely untenable this relationship was, I was in Tucson when it happened. And I was like, Oh, I can't stay here. It's a small town. I'm only here because of her. It's going to feel terrible to see her all the time. Can't go back to Boston like what's there, you know, like I don't know what is there for me. But you know, my friend, my close friend had moved to San Francisco. And I thought, well, I'll just go there and catch my breath and figure it out. And I ended up staying there for 25 years. Yeah. And you started a whole lot of a whole lot of stuff there. Yeah. One I know is Drake Queen Story Hour. And we had one here in Montpelio, Vermont. And, you know, they were demonstrators outside of the library. And it seems to be a thing these days of either writing terrible, horrible emails to the libraries or going there with guns and rifles to stop it. So but thank you for doing it. You know, I came up with the idea, which I'm proud of. It's like the best idea I ever had. But really, all the kudos and the gratitude go to these queens and these librarians who are actually putting their bodies and their livelihoods on the line every time they put a drag queen story hour together. You know, it's like, I know it's terrifying. It must be just so terrifying, so stressful. And they continue to do it and just believe in the power of queer joy and the way that queer joy translates to children and how life affirming it is and how inspiring and and world kind of widening it is. And, you know, librarians are the real like warriors for free speech, you know, in our country. And I just so appreciate them. And I so appreciate drag queen. So yeah. And, you know, like you talk about, especially in one of your books about beauty and how beauty has how your idea of what beauty is has evolved. And and can you tell us more about that? I think it was it was in your book. Is it black? Black waves? Yeah, when you talk about beauty and how your ideas of beauty have changed over the years, you know, like I think we're probably all raised to sort of be, you know, girly girls. Yeah, you know, that that that's the image. I was going to say Barbie, but you know, now Barbie's kind of all new. Now we can't hold anything against Barbie. So funny. Of course we can. But but yeah, yeah, I mean, sure. Yeah, there was, you know, like all kind of people raised in America, it was very gendered. And, and then that gender has always has a set of specific rules, which, you know, shift according to other culture cultures and class and stuff like that. But yeah, for sure. And, you know, as a femme person, I always really loved dressing up, you know, but like, I would get in trouble almost for dressing up too much, like I would get in trouble for like, refusing to take my confirmation dress off, right, because I just wanted to live in it or, you know, refusing to take my Easter outfit off and going and playing in the mud with it and getting in all the all kinds of trouble for that. Or, you know, trying to leave the house wearing like an insane like my mother's high heel shoes and a little mini skirt and a tube top when I was like, I don't know how old, you know, trying to dress like my Barbies. And then that just so you know, the messages were confusing, right, where it's like you were expected to be very feminine, but also almost not too feminine, you know, and that's why I think it's probably why I love Drag Queen so much is that they actually, they blast past that, that checkpoint of sort of appropriate femininity and they take it to a whole another level, which is, I feel like always where I was sort of headed when I was younger. And then, you know, growing once I once I became a teenager, I was super goth, which has a very specific beauty regimen, right, which is very unusual, especially in the 80s, you know, which was a heyday for goth, but also a heyday for goths being abused, you know, I would always get things thrown at me or people starting fights with me, you know, on the bus back to Chelsea or even walking through Boston. So, but I really love. And you were chased out of the schoolyard, right? For drinking and being goth. I was chased out. Yeah, I mean, I was, I was, I was definitely chased out of school at St. Rose and high school in Chelsea for being goth that really upset a lot of the girls I went to school with. And the teachers, of course, just thought it was, you know, it was me and a friend of mine. And they just basically thought it was our own fault for dressing so weird, like what did we expect, you know, so that was basically the landscape during that time period. But I thought I looked amazing. And I, you know, the depression that would have set in having to dress like a normal person was worse than the fear that set in thinking I was about to get my ass kicked all the time for looking the way that I did, you know, so, so yeah. And then, you know, I, when I had more of like a feminist awakening in my early 20s, I became really critical towards, you know, beauty and beauty standards and the beauty industry and all of those things, which are so super problematic. And my first response to that was kind of to become anti beauty, right, to just be against, you know, any, any kind of beauty standard. And I think that's a really common thing to do when you're kind of head explodes, and you sort of wake up to all of this conditioning and brainwashing that you've been a part of it. And it's hard to kind of piece out, you know, where were you brainwashed? And where is where is it, you know, what you truly like, you know, and where, where have you been brainwashed and, you know, how it can be its own head fuck to really like the things that the culture was also trying to brainwash you into, you know, because like variants feels really complicated. And so I think from there, it was just a process of trying to get back to my own notion of beauty, which in, you know, in, in the meantime, just became because of the communities I was a part of, because of the reading that I did, just became really, really, really expansive so that the idea is more not to be anti beauty, but to value beauty and to be able to see the beauty in a much, much vaster array of people, places and things than the dominant culture would have you think, you know, yeah, yeah, the cultural idea of beauty is just so limiting on so many. Oh, it's terrible. Yeah, it's awful. It just doesn't even recognize huge, you know, parts of the population at all, you know, people that I find so beautiful. The difference is we even have in genetics or, you know, what's, you know, what's beautiful is just so varied, depending on the culture and the, you know, your race and, you know, all those kinds of things that are just really different. Yeah. I grew up in Chelsea during the hippie movement. Were there hippies in Chelsea? Did they get their asses kicked or what? There was me. I know that. I know. And a couple of friends and, you know, we left at 16 and moved to Boston. Oh, wow. So I kind of, you know, understand what you mean about, you know, there is the one thing I liked about Chelsea, and I don't know if you found this to be the same as least one I was growing up. It was very cultural, culturally diverse, which Boston did not have. I mean, Boston in the whole area is really racist. And I'm really kind of nice that I grew up at least around many, many different cultural groups, which I've been grateful for. I don't know if it was still that way when you were there, but it was pretty diverse as a city. It was really diverse. And I think it still is diverse in it because it's a landing spot for immigrants, right? So there. So yeah. And it's also like a low income city. So yeah, it was super, super diverse. But, you know, I wish I had been raised to appreciate that, but I hadn't been, you know, I was raised, you know, in a white family where I heard a lot of racism. I heard a lot of racism from the white people around me, whether that was in school on the street, just like a presumption that if you were white, you thought this way too. And so people would sort of share their opinions or ideas. And so, you know, it took me some time. It never really sat well with me, but it took me some time to be able to speak back to it. And then, you know, yeah, it's still, I don't know, like it's really, I feel like I am definitely, it's really funny. I was whenever I get in a conversation with somebody where I feel like we might be on opposite ends of the spectrum or something or have some sort of a disagreement. And it's about sort of social justice things. My whole body goes into such an internal panic. And I get so like fight or flight, and it's really from these times when I was younger, you know, and I just would be trying to convince like my grandfather to not say like the N word and why, you know, and nobody really took me seriously. And also interestingly, nobody really thought they were racist, which is very interesting, because let me tell you, like, the things that were being said were incredibly racist, but I think that, you know, it's just that it's like that white supremacist sort of we get to make jokes and we get to say what we want, but we're not ever going to really hurt anybody. You know, like we're not, you know, like the KKK, we're not burning crosses on lawns. We never do that. Like I work with the black person and we're really friendly. And I think they're, you know, good at their job, but then you're still going to at home speak in this ugly way. So it, you know, it was really, it was really messed up. And there was a lot of stuff that really impacted me about growing up like that that still does, you know, I feel I still feel affected by it. But I agree with you, I'm proud to be from a place that is, you know, a place that, you know, people who immigrate to this country, find a home and are able to find their footing. And there's so much about, I love that it has so many like cultures existing in it. And you can see that just walking through the city even today at like the different stores and restaurants that are there. Like, it's great. And I've gone on as an adult to live in a lot of places in different cities that feel like Chelsea, like in San Francisco, I lived in the mission. And it felt like Chelsea to me, you know, but better because, you know, people were trying to appreciate each other and get along with each other and value each other. So, so that was really, that was really cool. And I know that you are in recovery. Yeah. And so when did that happen? And, you know, did a light bulb go off in your head and say, whoa, I'm just like doing too much of this? Or, you know, what happened there? I mean, what kind of brought you to that point of discovery? To the point to get sober? Well, you know, I tried to get sober a few times on my own. I didn't want to have to go into recovery because it seemed like then you were really fucked. You must really have a problem if you're doing that. So I was just trying to curtail things on my own and, you know, to really mixed results, really, really mixed results. I would get some time sober and then could never really get back again. And, you know, I had all of the problems that people have when they have drinking problems, like I was crying all the time. I was depressed. I was fighting with my partner at the time. You know, some, you know, light health problems when I was young. And it's interesting because, you know, people say that, like, oh, the consequences start building up. But also, you know, I was punk and queer and like low income. So I was living a kind of, you know, my standards weren't that high. It wasn't like I had these high standards that I fell from. So it can be kind of weird to see like how your life is made worse because you're already living at the bottom in a certain way. But there's a level of despair that I hadn't had prior, you know, in my drinking and using that was accumulating and kind of snowballing. And then I had told a friend of mine who was a writing mentor to me, who I really just was in love with and so admired. I had told them previously that I had stopped drinking and they were like, oh, cool. And then they had come to town and we met for coffee and they said, oh, how's it going, you know, with not drinking? And it was going very badly. I once again couldn't stop drinking. And part of that also is the madness with that was really disturbing to me that I would set out to not drink. And then I would really not be able to do it. And it would make me feel so crazy, like to be back in that spot again and again of despair and horrible feelings of being like, you weren't going to do this. But then, you know, a day later, you're like, oh, I'm fine, God, you know, you know, it's really alcoholic. Yeah. If you're really an alcoholic quitting drinking, that's alcoholic thing to do, you know, so just go get another jug of wine and drink it by yourself and see how you feel in the morning. So I had told my friend, I just actually burst into tears after they asked me and I was like, I can't stop drinking. I don't know what's wrong with me. And they of course knew exactly what was wrong with me. And they were like, do you want to go to a meeting? And I said, yes, because I was desperate. And I love this person. I would go to the moon with this person if they had invited me. So, so they took me to my first meeting. And I just got it. I just was like, Oh, yeah, like, I know what all these people are talking about. Like this is what's wrong with them is what's wrong with me. And they seem like they've figured out a way to be happy and have a sense of humor. Their skin looks good. My skin looks so bad. You know, I was like, Yeah. And, you know, my friend was really cool who brought me and was just like, Oh, it's really an anarchist organ. Like they put a spin on it that was very appealing to me and not the not the cynical spin of drink of, you know, other drunks who don't want to do that being like, Oh, it's a cult and they believe in God, you know, my friend was like, Oh, it's a totally anarchist organization. Like there's no leaders. And, you know, no one asks for money and go in there and they give you free caught. It's free. You know, they just and that's really what recovery is to me is like this, this miracle that like people get together and do such a huge offering of service to people who really need it who are really struggling. So, so yeah, thankfully, I'm really grateful that it it's stuck. And I kept going and I haven't had a drink in, you know, over 20 years. So yes. Yeah, thanks. And it, you know, in black way, you talk about it being hybrid writing or so. And the book is, if I recall, is sort of a story where it's you but it's not I mean, it's you, but this incidents around you are not necessarily true by felt that they were maybe emotionally true. Yes, totally emotionally true. So when the reader is reading your book, are they really looking for like the emotional like you don't really kill people? I mean, you haven't killed anybody. I so not yet. People try me though. So, so I'm thinking, you know, this is like your emotional self. I muted myself because I had a tiny coughing fit. Yeah, no, it is, you know, I don't I don't know what people are looking. I don't know what anyone is looking to get when they come to one of my books. You know, I don't know when I come to a book, I don't know that I'm necessarily looking for anything in particular. I'm sort of open to what the book has to give me. But yeah, you know, Black Wave is really a weird project in real. It's my favorite thing I ever wrote. It's it started as I had been working on this total fiction sort of apocalyptic story storyline. And then sort of towards the beginning middle of it, I had a really massive breakup with someone I've been with for like seven or eight years. And after in the in the wake of that, I became completely obsessed with writing about our story, which had been very dramatic and tumultuous, and all this stuff was involved in moving here and moving there. And, you know, I got sober in that relationship, I had all my alcoholic bottoms in that relationship, I changed a lot. And I started writing, I felt free to write the story once we had broken up. But what happened was I was reading from it when it was in progress at a bookstore in New York, and my ex was there in the audience. And I thought he'd be like, Oh, yeah, whoa, those were some crazy times, weren't they? But he was in fact super upset that I was writing about him and about us and my take on the relationship. And, you know, in general, I have always been sort of like, Oh, well too bad, you know, about that. But it felt bad. And, you know, after my reading, we both wound up at the same party, and had a big fight about it. And I was like crying at this party. And I'm like, Oh, my God, we've been broken up for like a year. And here we are at a party, and I'm crying in public again, like I need to sever this connection. Like it just felt like if I write this book about us, I'm continuing this connection that I don't want, like I don't want to be publicly connected to him. And certainly the book would have me being that. So I changed it. And, you know, I thought, well, gosh, what, what else is this book about besides this relationship? And it was about I found that it was about my addiction, you know, and it was about my relationship. But I found if I just kind of focused on myself and my addiction and then fictionalized it, brought in fiction to sort of patch up the places where I ripped the relationship out of the story. There were all these weird gaps. And I was like, what if I just do whatever the hell I want with this book? And what if it doesn't have to be, you know, a straight memoir where I'm trying to get to some sort of truth, but I'm just playing in a way and making things up, but trying to get to those back to those emotional truths about my relationship, but through a completely fictional way. And, you know, I've always read interviews with fiction writers about how like, you know, by fictionalizing, they're able to get closer to a truth than if they had just told the story. And I'd never understood that until I worked on that book. And then I really got it. And, yeah, I really I'm happy that it worked. It was really, I wrote it just not knowing what the hell I was doing, but very grateful at the end that it came together. Well, it's great book. Thank you. And, and, you know, one of the other issues that you talk about and write about, I think is, is your struggle with infertility. Yeah. And how hard that was. And, you know, a lot of people, a lot of women go through that process. And, you know, from everything I've heard, it is really, really difficult. And now you have Atticus, right? Yes, I do. I have a son. How old is he now? He's nine. Nine. Yeah. And you went through the process through various relationships? Is that correct? Or? Well, I started trying to get pregnant when I was single. So yeah, I wasn't in a relationship. And I thought I would maybe not be in one anymore, because I was feeling pretty jaded. But then I met the person who is now my ex, but we were together for about seven years and had been married. And we met each other while I was in, while I was actively trying to get pregnant. I was having my friend, my sperm donor come to my house, you know, with my best friend and we were all working together to get this sperm from my kitchen to me where I was in my bedroom. It was a total group effort. And so that was happening when I met my ex spouse and I was just, you know, they just sort of got sort of swept into it and also wanted a child and, you know, it seemed like, like the right thing to do. So we moved forward together and they certainly brought a lot of resources to the whole thing because I, you know, they had health insurance. I didn't have health insurance. Never mind not having a partner. I didn't have health insurance, you know. And so they put me on their health insurance really early on. And together we were able to figure out that, you know, I wasn't ever going to get pregnant that way. Like my, I was in my 40s. And while that's certainly possible for lots of people in their 40s, it just wasn't going to be possible for me. I didn't have the, I had a below average amount of like healthy looking eggs for someone my age. So I was like, kind of like, okay, well, I guess never mind I'll go to Paris instead. And then the doctor realized that my partner also had an ovary and eggs and was 10 years younger than me. And so the doctor was like, bring that person in here. And so it worked out that we used my ex's egg, my sperm donor, my sperm donor friends spurned and then I carried the baby. Great story. Yeah. Yeah. It was quite. I was really surprised when I heard that if you're over 40 and wanting to have a baby or pregnant, they call it geriatric. Did you? Yes. Yeah. I was like, I was amazed by that term. And I think I heard it like a month ago. I'm like, what? Yeah. So much medical terminology is so offensive, right? Like so much of it is just so dehumanizing and so offensive. And yeah, my sister, my sister had told me that her doctor had told her getting pregnant and trying to be a model of the only places where you're seen at that age as being geriatric. Unbelievable. Yeah. I don't know how they come up with these terms, but anyway. So let's talk about your new project. Sure. dopamine press. Yeah. One other thing I was going to mention is I loved your title for your book about being a mother, mother. And I thought, I'm so lost, right? Is that how you mother? Mother. Yeah. There was a magazine, right? It's an online magazine that I started. And yeah, I wanted something that did talk about motherhood, but not the whole motherhood has already been so branded by our culture. Like we think of certain things and I was like, how can we break out of that? And it felt like that was a way that kind of gave you a hint like, oh, this probably isn't a normal mother blog, right? And it's not. And I'm not involved in it anymore, but you know, the women who have taken it, who took it over are fantastic and it's a great site. If you're looking for anything about alternative parenting, really from conception or attempts to conceive all the way to having adult children, there's so many great personal stories on that site. Okay, folks out there. That site, M-U-T-H-A, correct? Yeah, yes. Yeah, Mother Magazine. So you're going along with all your busy life, you know, writing blogs and starting different projects. And so then you decide, I guess, that in addition to all the other stuff that you do, that you're going to start a press and you're going to call dopamine drug, correct? Yeah, yep. Dopamine is like the the pleasure chemical that we get. It's what it's what addicts really love, you know, you get dope. It's why we're addicted to our phones and you know, it's like, yeah, it's like why we get addicted to love and good all the good feelings, the good happy feelings is dopamine, right? Food, sex, you know. Gambling. Gambling. Gambling, yes, perfect example. Lots of dopamine and gambling. If you get a hit, oh my god, that's all dopamine in your body. Yep. So tell us, tell us about this project and how did you happen to start it? And I guess additionally, how did you raise funds for this? Or is this like sort of a bootstrap project? Very bootstrappy, but we did raise funds and we'll continue to have to raise funds. So, you know, it started I have always wanted to have to publish books always, always. And when I was in my 30s, I was I was living in San Francisco and I was running a literary nonprofit called Radar Productions. And my right hand man was Beth Pickens and she is, she's a really fascinating person. She's kind of a genius. She's written some books, make your art no matter what and your art will save your life. She's very much a counselor to artists who are trying to figure out how to live in a capitalist world and have their art or how to care about the world so passionately and still feel like your art is worthwhile to make. You know, she's really, she does incredible work. But you know, at this point, she was the managing director of my nonprofit. I was the creative director. And I had to leave it when I moved to LA because most of our funding was San Francisco based, but I really missed doing literary organizing. And so I contacted her and I was like, do you want to do another nonprofit? And she said yes, which I couldn't believe. I would never have done it without her. And I was like, you know, this time I think I want to publish books. I'm having this something has happened to me since I hit my 50s where I'm having a real now or never moment with a lot of things where I'm like, oh, this is something that I've always had over here that I'm like, someday I think I'll do something like that. It's like, someday is now, bitch, you're in your 50s, you got to do it, you know? So I was like, yeah, let's publish books. And what I found was that, it went from a nonprofit that maybe published a couple of books to a press, a nonprofit press. It's like, that's what we're doing. We are publishing books. So, yeah, I mean, Beth handles a lot of the administrative and bureaucratic things that are harder for me. She helped get us nonprofit status. We did that. And then as far as the funding, I feel so fortunate. I met a queer person who's so excellent and has completely similar sort of values, cultural understanding. We just were on the same page and they happened to have inherited a lot of money. And they don't even understand the circumstances and how they did it. But maybe it was a little fraught is the feeling that I get. I don't know. But they are looking to be a philanthropist and they want to donate money to things that they really believe in. And I'm so grateful that instead of wanting to donate it to like, I don't know, some big human rights campaign funds. You know what I mean? Like these big organizations that this person wanted to give it to a small organization like us that had this vision to put more queer books and we ordered queer books out into the world. So with that, that really helped us get our feet on the ground hugely. And since then, we had a big fundraiser that brought us some money. We made some merchandise that you can get on our website. Dopamine Books LA, I think, is our website. People can totally donate. There's a PayPal you can donate. You can also purchase our merchandise. We have a zine that's really beautiful and perfectly kind of perfectly bound. We have a really beautiful broadside from one of our writers. And we have a little pin that we just put up there. So yeah. And then recently, I just taught a four week workshop called Writing for Witches. And it was sort of a combo of magic, meditation, tarot, and also writing and all of the proceeds from that I donated to Dopamine. So we're just trying to be really creative about the ways that we bring in money. We certainly, you know, we're nonprofits, so we are tax deductible, but we come from a corner of the world, but we don't know a lot of people who have a lot of money, you know? So it's really, you know, it's like, you know, one of these things when we're sitting here like, who can we maybe see? Who could maybe make a donation? And it's like, we don't know a ton of people who could maybe make a donation that's big enough to make a difference for us. So yeah, I'm really grateful to the person who did help us out. And yeah, we'll certainly be doing more benefits and really trying to be creative in ways to bring in money for the press. And also, once our books are in the world, hopefully, you know, we'll be making a little profit from that that will also sustain us. Once a year, I'm doing an anthology every year and all the proceeds from the anthology go right to the press. So hopefully that will help too. Yeah. And when you grow up not having money or, you know, you go through most of your life not having money, you get pretty inventive, I think. Yeah, I mean, I found you really rely on community and that is a blessing and a curse for the community, you know what I mean? Because it's like, I'm so grateful. I mean, most everything I've done, I wouldn't have been able to done without a community with community support. So I'm really grateful. But I know that it can also feel really draining to the community or they can get tired of you popping up and sort of asking, you know, for their dollars again and again. So for anybody listening out there or in general, how do you solicit for me and use groups? Gosh, well, once the word got out, I was immediately inundated with manuscripts, so much so that at the moment, we're we're our slate is full to 2028. So I'm really hesitant to tell anybody to send us anything right now, because the soonest I could publish anything would be 2028. And I still have a couple of manuscripts in my, in my inbox that from people that are like, that might be fine 2028 might be fine. I'm like, Oh, my God, are we going to be am I going to be slated through 2029 soon? It's, you know, will the earth be there? It just seems so impossible. But yeah, you know, the books that we have coming out this year came about in a super interesting way. We have our first anthology that I edited, which is called sluts. And that's going to be super fun. We have events going on for that this spring and summer, we have one in Boston and one in Provincetown in August. So but then the first book by, you know, by a single author, a friend of mine, Clement Goldberg, is a filmmaker who I've collaborated with. And they have written in this incredible TV pilot that they wanted to get made into a TV show. And it should be made into a TV show because it would be fantastic. But it is so hard to get anything made into a TV show as you might imagine, right? And so I was really inspired reading their pilot, but I also felt this weird despair of like, God, you know, the chances are probably right. It just won't even get made into a show. And here's this incredible creative work and these characters that are so alive. And I'm invested in them now. I want to know what happens to them. And I told Clement, I was like, while you're working to get this made into a TV show, why don't you write a novel version of it? If you do that, I will like, I will help you get it published. This was before I even was going to do a press. And then, you know, life moves on and suddenly I'm doing a press and suddenly my friend Clement Goldberg has finished the novel and it's fantastic. It's so good. And I was like, Oh my God, Clement, it's called New Mistakes. And I was like, you should sell this for like $100,000. But if you don't want to, I will publish it. You know, I felt bad. I was like, Oh no, I feel like because of our friendship, I could get them to give me this book. But I feel like as a friend, I should probably try to help them get money for it. But so I was going back and forth about it. But in the end, they wanted to put it out on dopamine. And I'm so grateful for that because it's an excellent book. It's really a frolic. It's just about that's coming up. Yes, it'll be the first single author book that comes out. It's a novel. It's really great. And then after that, you know, there's another writer, Vera Blossom, who, through the pandemic, I was doing a podcast about magic called Your Magic. And Vera Blossom is, you know, she's in her 20s. And she was one of the producers, but she's also a writer. And she started doing a newsletter called How to Fuck Like a Girl that was turning it up in everybody's email boxes. And it's so good. And I just think she's a star. And I was like, Vera, why don't you write a book? And I'll publish it, like write the book version of your newsletter. And she was like, oh, my God, I just did a spell to get a book deal. And I was like, here I am, you've summoned me, you know? And so, so yeah, so I'm editing, I'm editing that book, write that manuscript right now. That will be out in the fall. And then I also got a solicit, in my mailbox, this writer whose work I'm aware of, real small press books in the past. His name is Sean Stewart Ruff. He writes about sort of being like a black, gay boy, gay man, young man in Philadelphia in the 70s. I'm sorry, not in Philadelphia, in Cleveland. Yeah. So it's, his stuff is really good. He's really a strong writer. And he sent me like, he keeps returning to this character. But you can kind of read any of the books individually, you don't have to read them as a series, but he's just, this is his, you know, passion to kind of tell the story of this character through different eras of his life. So yeah, it's a really great story about the repercussions of a hate crime in the life of this gay boy, who's just sort of like still living at home, has dreams of getting out of the house, he's like about to go to college, and his life becomes completely uprooted because of this, this act of violence. It's a really great book. It's called Days Running. And so those are the first books, are you going to try to play one a year or? Yeah, I'm trying to put out four books a year. One of those will be the anthology that hopefully helps fund the press, and then three books by three single author books. So, you know, the three single author books for 2024 was meant to be Clement Goldberg, Vera Blossom and Sean Stewart Ruff. But, you know, I just had a conversation with, you know, somebody who's helping Sean Stewart Ruff with his publicity, and they were like, how do you feel about publishing his book during an election year? I mean, I'm sorry, during the election month, like it's coming out at the election. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that might not be good, you know. And his publicist was like, would you consider moving it to February? Maybe we could catch some Black History Month, you know, glimmer for it. And I was like, I will do whatever everyone feels like is best for this book. I just want this book to shine. I want it to get all the attention it deserves. So that book will now be in February 2025. So we'll have five books in 2025. And, you know, it's really good that, or really spectacular, I guess, one could say that they're suppressed for less than mainstream publishing, which has gotten to be, as you know, just awful. And unless you're a major writer, you don't even get the chance, really. It's really difficult. It's really, really difficult. And it's like, you know, especially if you're writing, you know, I don't know, like we're gonna, we're doing some, some kind of poetry books coming out. And it's really hard to get poetry published, obviously. It's really hard for queer writers to truly be themselves and get published. It happens, of course. But, and I'm so in awe of writers who are able to completely maintain their unique style and voice and still find success. And I'm thinking of like Brunt, as Pernell, Gerba, Grace Lavery, like these are folks who've been able to really stay and find an audience and success. But it's hard, I think. I think it's really much more likely that you, you know, folks in the industry try to mold you a little bit, maybe smooth out your edges a little bit and, and get you to go in a direction that is a bit more, you know, mainstream, because everyone's trying to make money, you know? So, and it's, it's hard, you know, it's like, there's a, there's a toss off with that. There's a toss off, you know, you, something gets traded in for that. So I'm really happy to be able to provide a spot where, you know, we value the fact that, you know, people's writing style might not be what is the, the one that's in vogue right now. They might be doing something a little different, you know, but, but always interesting, always valuable, always exciting, you know, it's like, yeah. I always find edgy work to be a little, you know, more interesting to me. Me too. Me too. Somebody that has like, you know, reminds me of Chelsea, it's edgy. Exactly. It's like, we've been raised to have a certain aesthetic, right? And we need to feed that, you know, we have a certain taste now. My partner and I went to see you and sister spit in the boundary of, I don't know, you were pregnant until you didn't come. So we missed you. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Susan Silverman. Susan, yeah. She did it for you. Okay. And it was great. It was really good. Yeah. It's always such a great crew. It's always a great crew. Yeah. Yeah. And we had a really good time. So we're about running out of time here. Okay. And so if people want to talk, I want to give money, they can go to dopamine.com or. Dot org, dopaminebooks.org. Okay. Well, we'll put that up and flash it up here so that people will know where to go. Yeah. And if you ever want to do like a book or a fundraiser, we're here in Vermont. We got a lot of lesbians and gay people and drug people up here. Oh, man. But, you know, if we can help in any way, we would love to. Gosh, that sounds incredible. I think we did something and I don't know, maybe we've never done anything in Vermont, which is such a horrible oversight, but it's just about having the right connections. But maybe I have one now in you. And we have some good connections here. So, you know, maybe we can work something out. Okay. And good luck in this new project. And, you know, I'm thinking in a year, you'll have another something else that you thought of. Oh my God. I hope you're not right. It's like only so many hours in the day. You know, like, I don't know what that will be, but it'll be very creative, I'm sure. And, you know, very interesting to everybody. And, you know, I've been following your work for a long time. Of course, partly because, you know, we're sisters in the spirit here. Yeah, we are partly because you're fabulous. Thank you. And we've done a couple of your books in our reading groups. Oh, wow. Thank you. Thank you so much. That's awesome. I appreciate that. And, you know, that's a good way to get people on to your, you know, like buying books. Yeah. Like, get those people who are like doing reading groups, you know, who can just... Oh, absolutely. Yeah. So... Yeah. Well, I have a new book coming out in October. It's called Modern Magic, Modern Magic, and it's essays about magic. So maybe I can come out to Vermont on my book tour. I would love that. Oh, that'd be great. We have a great bookstore. Yeah. Independent bookstore. All right. I'll follow up with you. And fundraising. Hey, you know, we'll do what we can to help you. So take care of yourself. You too. And I'm going to be around Chelsea next week, so I'm going to say hi for both of us. Please do. Oh my gosh. One other thing. You were talking about, you know, Easter. Did you go to Revere Beach on Easter all dressed up? We did every Easter. I don't know what it was. No, we never did that. That's a tradition. Yeah. We didn't do that one. If you had to reach on Easter, I know. I wonder if my mom did. My mom might have done it. Maybe it was Leigh. Yeah. Yeah. Totally, totally. Hang in there. You too. And let's talk again soon. Okay. Thank you so much for this. It was great talking to you. You too. Bye-bye. Bye-bye. Thank you for joining us. And until next time, remember, resist.