 I'm Gerry Brotten and I'm sharing a conversation between Adam Lowe and Grace and Perry. It's a discussion about mapping and art, so the way in which artists have been interested in mapping, and both Adam and Grace in that particular takes on that issue about the way in which aesthetics are interested in maps. We're in a golden age of mapping in many ways in the 21st century, with all the fantastic maps. Now you can just look up on your phone, I'm a very keen cyclist and so I'm on Strava, which is basically Pokemon Go for middle-aged men in Lycra. Maps are the great realist form of representation, so you can look at a map time and time again and somehow you don't feel that you've seen it before. Adam Lowe and Grace and Perry, thanks.