 Welcome and thank you all for joining us. I am Neil Richardson from for focus on racial equality. I am joined by Tabitha Moore, president of the Rutland branch of the NAACP, and Caitlin Gilbert also of the Rutland branch NAACP, and who is the host of the zoom program that we are running tonight. Please note that this event is being recorded by ARCA media in Montpelier, as well as by the NAACP branch. This forum was originally planned a few months ago around the issue of the Vermont requirement that police officers record the race of people to whom traffic citations are issued. The virus pandemic put it on hold. Then the national outcry of protests against systemic racism made us realize that a public meeting such as this is very important. The purpose of this forum is for law enforcement officials to provide information about what they are proactively doing to address systemic racism and white supremacy culture and to invite the community to ask questions and engage law enforcement and conversation. I want to personally thank Scott Claude, captain of the Orange County Sheriff's Department, and Bill Buanyak, Orange County Sheriff for their willingness and effort in bringing this forum to fruition. Scott will take the presenting lead and introduce you to his team in just a few minutes. We recognize that the topic of racism is painful and difficult. All kinds of feelings come up for people, and we're not asking attendees to limit their feelings. What we do ask is that you refrain from personally attacking others, name calling and threats of violence will not be tolerated. I have a few words about how the forum will be presented this evening and how your participation will be handled. Thanks. So we've got 43 people here. I'm going to press a button now to mute everybody but me. And when you want to be unmuted when we get to the point for general discussion. You can either raise your hand if you're in the video, if you have your video on or there's an option to sort of virtually raise your hand you should see at the bottom of your screen. A reminder that we are recording if you'd like to turn your video off if you don't want to be seen for whatever reason you have the option to stop your video. And you're welcome to do that. There is a chat at the bottom of the screen there's a chat option will keep an eye on the chat so if you have questions as we go along, you can put them in there. And limit people's questions when we get to that portion to about two minutes. So as to give is everybody as much or give the opportunity to talk to as many people as possible. We will also look at questions that have come through the chat at that point. Yeah, I think that's I think that's it if you are experiencing any technical difficulties you can write a note to me in the chat and I'll see if I can help you that way. And thanks again for being here. Okay, here we go on mute and then I will unmute the sheriff's office. I can find them. Neil, were you all done before I jump in. I had more I wanted to say, please. Sorry about that. Go ahead now. Okay, all right, I'm on. I just want to finish up with my, my introduction. Be aware that many of the questions were submitted in advance, and some were quite similar. In order to accommodate all who responded we have consolidated those that were similar and given them to the sheriff's panel to address up front. Following the offices presentations, I will present further questions that were submitted in advance. After that discussion and questions from the floor will be open. Remember to that this is a community forum for Orange County. We aren't making any policy decisions here. I'm just listening to what people have to say. We encourage you to continue this discussion with the sheriff's office, your town officials and state representatives. If you feel so moved. And now I have the very good pleasure of introducing to you Scott. Captain of the sheriff's department of Orange County, which will, who will lead the presentation. Good evening. I'll thank you for allowing us to attend this meeting. Before I turn it over to my two other deputies that have here with me, I just want to read a very brief statement from myself and Sheriff Bonnack and the sheriff's office. I'm George Floyd by police in Minneapolis and I'm not every by arm vigil and isn't Georgia, and the slang of young EMT brand a Tyler in this bill was Louisville during a no knock police raid have shocked a constant conscience of Vermont, the nation and the world. And these instances do not stand in isolation, but exist as part of our nation's tragic centuries long history of racist violence and abuse of African Americans. All of our citizens in all parts of the nation have spoken up in recent weeks to peacefully protest and condemn police brutality. Social economic injustice and racism, racism, and all its forms. As law enforcement leaders to model of our use and all of all of our citizens, the values of community engagement, trust and constructive dialogue around these issues of our times, especially racism, social and economic equality. We are committed to fostering respect, constructive, peaceful, and in the public engagement around the issues of racism, social and economic injustice as they exist in our community. We recognize the demand for accountability, transparency and training along with the education of the citizens and our community on who we are remaining flexible on the new innovating training that will help keep us with our ever changing world. Well, being said, I would like to introduce Deputy Victor Hanosa, who will give a very brief description on who he is and what he and why he is a Orange County Sheriff's Office. Hello, I'm Deputy Hanosa, I work for the Orange County Sheriff's Department. I'm a native Vermont, I'm from Bristol, Vermont. And that's where I grew up went to school. I originally came a police officer in Berlin, Vermont, when I moved to a very city. And I just started with the Sheriff's Department full time, just about two, maybe three months ago. I'm an Eagle Scout from Route 543. I am an active member of the Army Reserves, 424 Engineer and Company in Rutland. I study political science in Orch University and I'll be finishing that up this coming May. A couple years ago, probably two, three years ago, I interned for the honor of Governor Phil Scott and his constituent response office had a blast there. So, why did I join law enforcement? I've always had a mindset of, you know, that I should try to be a part of the solution, not part of the problem. So, that's why I started. I wanted to kind of, if I, if I saw that I could make a difference and I did. I thought that I could help kind of make a positive change in my community, or the communities that I serve. So that's why I started. I'm going to introduce Deputy Kerry Pine, who's also our K9 Officer for the Orange County Sheriff's Office. Good evening. I'm Deputy Kerry Pine. So I'm also a native Vermonter. I grew up in Brookfield. So I went to Randolph High School. So I've been involved in the Randolph community. Basically my entire life. I joined the Army and ran away and vowed never to return to Vermont. And yet here I am. I started my law enforcement career with Northfield Police Department and have been here with Orange County for a little over two years. And as Scott said, I am the K9 Officer. I just actually finished recertifying with my dog in Ohio here in April. And we are hoping to be back on the road here shortly. We had a little bit of a hiccup incident when we were out there. So we've kind of been taking some time off. Why I got into law enforcement. The civil service portion, obviously I'm very involved with the military and then Girl Scouts, Boy Scouts. I grew, had seven older brothers. So I've been involved in scouting my entire life and very community oriented, very family oriented. But also I like the job because every day is different. You meet different people every day. You have different situations every day. And I get to wear a lot of different hats. And I enjoy it because I'm not stuck in an office. I get to be out and meeting new people and interacting with people. Thank you. Just for the record, I want to let everybody know that both Deputy Honoso and Deputy Pine are dedicated Orange County deputies here in the Randall Village community. So they also know a lot about the village and help strive to keep the community safe. My name is Scott Claude. I am the captain with the Orange County Sheriff's Office. I've been in law enforcement for the last 13 years. I started my career back in St. Johnsbury and started as a part-time certified officer. I always had the idea that I wanted bigger and better. And I went to Hartford White River, Vermont, where it was a much bigger police department and a very bigger patrol area. I soon came to realize that the bigger area was not really for me. I really enjoyed knowing the community members and the people that I serve. And I ended up here in Randolph as a patrol officer. I was here for about three years. And then they opened up in the Sheriff's Office as a special investigations unit detective, which I got accepted into. And I spent about six years in the special investigations unit. And that was a very, it really furthered my career in regards to investigations, which is the course of track that I really enjoy is the investigation piece. The other piece is, you know, over the last two years, I came out of the special investigations unit and took the lieutenant position here at the Orange County, the Randolph sub station, when the Randolph PD was disbanded. And I've been here ever since. As of last year, I got promoted to captain, and I have not just only Randolph anymore, but I have the entire Orange County under my watchful eye. Why became a police officer through my years growing up, you know, even with the neighborhood kids when we always played with cops and robbers I was always the cop. I always felt need to help people. Before I was a law enforcement officer, I was also a EMT and firefighter. I really enjoyed helping that my community out. Any other further questions and we can open up to the question form. Just quickly, if you wouldn't mind slowing down. Absolutely. That would be fantastic because our closed captioning is us trying to type and keep up with you. Thank you for her. Okay. So folks have questions for Neil. Neil you had questions you wanted to start with right. So I will unmute you. There you go. Do you have the questions. Do I have the questions. Do you have those questions that we were going to make the Scott. Can you pull them up. You give me just a second. I have all the others. I don't have those. I can't. Oh, God almighty. It's all part of the process of trying to run a community forum. All right, so here are the questions that you sent. I think it's very solid. And you know, currently the Orange County Sheriff's office is doing most of what's being proposed on the 10 point. Yeah. Which, you know, we still have to remain very. In regards to. I'm going to ask you, I think that's got. I need you to speak up and I think somebody else needs you to speak more clearly. I think that's a good point. I'm going to ask you, I think that's got. I need you to speak up and I think somebody else needs you to speak more clearly. Okay. So use your cheerleader voice. My cheerleader voice. Is this any better man. Yes, thank you. In regards to the 10 point program. We are fully ready to go with it. I think that's a good point. I think that the Sheriff's office is currently adhering to. All aspects of this 10 point program. There's a few tweaks that we've got to, you know, revisit, but we're already on board with this program. Could you go over for folks? What is in the 10 point plan and how the sheriff's department is already meeting that or what you're going to be doing to meet them. And what is the hiring practice? So, you know, what the sheriff's office also needs to kind of. Are start doing is start bringing on. More disinterested people in regards to the hiring process. People outside of the department. Which we're currently looking into updating. Another piece is training. Again, we're trying to remain fluid with the training and what's going to come down for the. Okay, so remaining fluid in regards to what's coming down the pike for a state mandate, but we do training in house and we also do multiple trainings at the police academy which we which is required by the state. Promotion and supervisor selection. Again, we're still currently doing that. We just need to tweak a little bit in regards to having outside people weighing in their responses. improper conduct and allegations. Again, we still do that all in house. You know, it's also just bring in the other parties to weigh in on their decisions as well. Again, when the first start of the race collection data was implemented in Vermont, we were on board with it and started collecting it. And hoping that a statewide system is generated and we're all on board with that and ready to go. Again, still remaining fluid in regards to what the state will mandate coming down coming down the area here. We have body worn cameras. We have a small handful already in the field here at the sheriff's office. All the deputies here in the Randolph Village area do carry body worn cameras. And we have policies procedures in regards to those body cameras. Community collaboration. Again, you know, we're already doing that within the community. And again, it's small little tweaks in regards to, you know, having more people have more of a voice that we can listen to and take a part. Community oversight models. Again, you know, we just need to tweak up a little bit having more people outside of the sheriff's office to attend our oversight. And we are very willing to have that done more than one. I'm sorry, could you back up and explain people aren't most of the people have not seen this. So when you talk about community oversight models, could you explain what the mandate is, and what you currently have, and what is going to be changing. I think that would be helpful for folks as I'm looking at questions. Okay. So the, the, the outline for the community oversight models is all law enforcement agencies must one or more means of providing community oversight. Such oversight would include assessment of and input regarding hiring training promotional process policy development and accountability and discipline. So again, I mean, we're, we handle a lot of stuff all in house, but bringing people in is a step that we're also looking into and bringing on board policy. This one's the major one that we really have to be fluid on regarding a statewide model policy and the use of force of all law enforcement agencies and officers. We currently have a use of force policy. And, you know, it. And again, we are also trying to be very fluid with what the state will mandate in regards to the use of force policies. But we do have our own internal one. Could you explain to people what the differences between the two. Between the statewide use of force policy that they have talked about so far, the one that just passed as to 19. I haven't seen it so I, I, I don't know. I am only, I have my policy in front of me. I don't have what has recently passed. And the last point was the military equipment in regards to military surplus military equipment. We here do have military equipment, such as humvees, backpacks, rifles, optics, night vision, stuff of that nature. The reason why that we were doing that was public safety and also budgetary and financial restraints upon our department. And again, we're going to remain fluid in regards to what the state brings down in regards to a policy for this surplus equipment. Do you have that electronically so that we could put it in the chat for folks to read the time point. Yeah, my last draft is old. This one is to milk. Okay. This was the draft policy. And what they have talked about and at the state house, I don't have an updated policy. We have a question about what the current I think it's referring to that your current use of force policy is on what what point I mean we've revamped our, you know, we've reviewed and revamped our use of force policy. Recently, our sheriff has worked with a community member to update our use of force policy. Also updated our foreign impartial policing policy. A couple of key components in our use of force policy is deescalation. No chokeholds duty to intercede obligation to step in or face individual liability communication tactics that can be used to intercede quickly professionally and effectively, least amount of force required to use any force be documented. That's what our current policy is. Is there any way you could put that in the chat so folks could read that and I don't have to try to write all that. I do not have a digital copy ready to go. I gotta dig through my emails and things like that to post it on. Okay, do you have to if you have it available on your website. And I'm sorry I'm not typing in closed caption then we can just put your website in the chat for people to be able to access. Both our fair and partial policy and our use of force are is on our website. I'll find that and add it to the chat. Those were the questions that we had. Oh, so let's see the final one that we had prepared was how will you ensure that the fair and impartial policing committee is diverse and has the ability to impact community policing. Like I said we're still working on this piece right now. So I don't have those appropriate answers for you right now. We're still working on that to have that diverse crowd amongst us. Neil, did you have more you wanted to say, or you, I think how. Oh, yeah. I, I guess, and it's my fault. The different the questions that we were going to ask Scott with regard to the 10 points. I think between what Tabitha just did, and what you did. I think we've already asked them. One of the things that I wanted to do right now is to read. This is related to the 10 points it was a note that I received from Paul Kendall a lot of you people in town know Paul, and he wanted to he couldn't be at the meeting but he wanted me to read this. And my concern has long been that while most offices are respectful. There are individuals who let a minor infraction escalate into a major confrontation. And this happens with bad outcomes when this happens too often the version of the events given by the offices is accepted by superiors prosecutors and the public as being the truth. When we now know that is frequently not the case. There are a number of video and voice recordings. What can correct this problem and restore trust between the police and the public training does not do the job and policies are only as good as their implementation. In fact, what you expect was the business philosophy. I grew up with and in this case body cam videos are the only way to inspect their. So the issues of making such videos, as well as the finding of any complaint proceeding available to the public. But let's start by ensuring that the primary evidence is captured and preserved. You get a comment on that Scott. Wait for Scott. Can you, Neil, can you just email that to me quickly so I can put it in the chat so people can read it. He can't because he's on the computer. What do you say you want you to email it to her right off. Can we do it after the fact to have a email. Email Paul Kendall think to her. I'll have to do it after. Yeah, we can maybe plan to put together an email I can help you, Neil. We have all these people emailed you we have their list so we can put together some sort of resources at the end that to reflect the different things we're talking about. That makes sense. Yeah, that'll be good. Okay. I guess, Neil. What kind of question are you are. Are you asking in regards that Orange County utilize this body cameras is that what your question is. Do you now use body cameras Scott. Yes, we do. We have a small handful of body cameras that are issued to all the respective deputies that work here in the Randall village. So that is due to this is our most highly calm, calm, calm view volume contract that we have at the sheriff's office. Yeah, more. Now, I don't know when the girl. Oh, Carrie, Carrie, I don't know when Carrie talk. If she mentioned. You mentioned the thing that Irene Schaefer. I'd like to, I'd like to read another question that was sent sent to me and I don't think that Carrie address that when she talked back in the this is from Irene Schaefer back in the 1990s we had a police officer named Tom Simpson, who did a lot of foot patrol in the streets of downtown Randall. He related to the shop owners and also to the young people in town. His manner was easing going and so we made many friends with local old and young. Sometime a few months ago there was an article in the Herald about a young woman sheriff, who was to be doing similar work, walking out downtown with the dog I think her name was fine. She was the young lady that was here. To my knowledge that has never happened I'd like to know why as it seems the sheriff, making friendly contact out on the beat is more productive than sheriff sitting in their cars waiting for traffic violation. I wouldn't say that it's more productive. It's more, it's just a different community policing aspect. I grew up in this community so I know a lot of the people in the community already, or a lot of people in the community know my parents or my brothers. So I like to just get out and visit with people and I like to get out and get the dog out and diesel was a great. I don't want to say bridge, but I get a lot of questions, especially from young kids about the dog and well from people of all ages about the dog. It kind of opens up that communication because I think that law enforcement, the community should view us as approachable and just like part of the community and that's kind of why we do the foot patrols because it does again it gives us a break from the officer from the car, but it also gets us out and gets the community familiar with who I am and who diesel is and kind of shows, I get to meet people in the community so. Let's just step further that you know we are conducting foot patrols in the downtown Randolph area, and we, we do document those foot patrols. And when we're doing foot patrols we're not just walking up and down the sidewalk and then calling a day we're you know interacting with people who may be on the sidewalk, going into stores, just to see how things are going. And if they need anything, any call any questions comments concerns that we may be able to answer. We are currently doing that. At this point in time. Caitlin share bill bonac is in attendance and he's requesting to be unmuted. Is that a possibility. Yeah, let me see if I can find him. I see. Sorry there's a lot of people. Good evening everyone and thank you. I tried to wave my hand there earlier but several people asked where I am I am on the sidelines for tonight. Neil has been working with Scott. For the last several months I met Neil, maybe two years ago now. And Neil wanted to meet some of the other deputies and Scott was the contact person and for tonight. I let Scott take the lead on this, but I just want to bring to everyone's attention. Not only am I the sheriff of Orange County but I'm also still a president of the Vermont Sheriff's Association, and that 10 point list that Commissioner Shirley put out publicly. The sheriffs are part of that. We, we helped instrument a lot of those pieces of that, along with Vermont chiefs of police. So it's it's multi agencies coming together. And the other thing I just want to bring up our use of force policy we did modify it. It may be modified again, same with the fair and impartial policing at other aspects of law enforcement, because when August rolls around the end of August, the legislators will be back in session, and they're going to take up more issues of law enforcement. So this is a ever changing times right now so we're trying to be fluid and be trained, absolutely transparent. And, you know, that's why we're here tonight we want to reassure the community, we are, we are here, we're listening. So, and I thank you very much and thanks Scott and Carrie and Victor for stepping up. You know, telling everyone who they are and what we're doing here so we're part of the community. I had a saying I said a long time ago, I'd rather be a part of the community than apart from it. So without I'll leave it back up to Neil, Caitlin and Scott. Yeah. Well, is Larry Sackowitz on in the group tonight. I guess not. He is I just unmuted him. Oh, okay. Let me turn my video on. We'll see me. Hi. So yeah, I had some couple of questions that you're referring to Neil. I had a couple of questions Larry. I had a couple of questions. Yeah. So one of my questions was I've been reading about, you know, some of sort of the where some of the, you know, the impetus to the some of the violence that we've been hearing about in the news for so long and it seems like a lot of it starts with police training and kind of moves into the local police cultures and form or another and it seems like it's really part of this culture nationwide. And I'm wondering what you all do in Orange County to resist the sort of pressures that stem from those kinds of trainings that I've been hearing about. So what kind of trainings. I've been reading that it's very common for, for police in the course of their trainings to, to be, you know, to view the public as sort of, you know, the other and the, and the threat, and that, you know, police officers can be killed, you know, by anyone at any time and they have to be extremely vigilant, which is, of course true but it seems like from some of the readings that I've done that these things are stressed so much that police officers leave their trainings in police academies, probably more frightful of the public than they really need to be considering the actual nature of the threat and that that sort of infiltrates departments and makes officers perhaps more scared than they need to be. And so I'm wondering how that affects you all here in Orange County and what you might be doing to sort of push back on some of the fear which seems to be driving at least some of the police brutality that we've been hearing about. For me sir, you know, I went to the full time Academy back in seven. Was there a lot of, you know, hey you got to really pay attention to what your surroundings are. You know, absolutely. The driving force was go home at night. But when you actually get out into the actual community, you are still very hyper vigilant. You are aware of your surroundings. It takes that kind of a person that it's not police brutality that they're training at the Academy. It's, you know, maybe it's hyper vigilant vigilance as you have commented but you go out and you have a conversation you talk to people and you know that kind of piece right there really pushes back on people's perception or your own as a law enforcement officer perception on the general public. And with that, it makes it a lot easier to not have use of force complaints not have the points all the way around that you are, you know, in any shape or form over aggressive. The last question that I had was a couple of years ago I was I was on the town committee that oversaw and recommended the transition from a local force in Randolph to using the Orange County for policing. And when we when we made that switch one of the things we did is we not only changed the, you know, the entity doing the policing but we also contracted for far fewer hours through Orange County than the old Randolph department was. Was doing as a something about half, we cut the number of patrol hours and about half from the Randolph police force to what we have now. And no one seemed to have noticed everything seems perfectly calm and every, you know, the town seems to be doing just great. And it sort of makes you wonder, you know, how much policing do we really need if we could drop the police hours by half and nothing really changes. Can we drop it further like where do we draw the line what's I wonder really what the what you all what your take is on what's the proper level of policing that we need here in this particular community. And where do you see it going in the future. So, in regards to, because there was a patrol officer here in Randolph before I went to the Orange County Sheriff's Office. You know, I enjoyed having another person on with me. I was the low man on the total pole so to speak when I first got here. So I had the dreaded midnight shifts. And we're currently, you know, my, my deputies go home at one in the morning. Is there calls for service between one and eight when another deputy signs on. Yes there is. If it's emergent. Those calls do go to the state police but what we are also seeing is that the immediately you get referred right back to us and we've got to pick them up after the fact when the deputy signs on. And with with also, I mean, the deputies here don't sit in the office we're out in on the street. That's what the contract is for we're out here providing a community service being out more so than ever before. It really, when you say something to the fact that you know nobody has really noticed all the comments that both I have gotten and with you Sheriff Bonnie has gotten also is that they've seen the sheriff's cruisers more than they had the right to me. We're not sitting in the office where you know we're providing a service. And I think also because we're out all the time is also a partial drop in regards to bad things going on. I ran numbers before this meeting and a year snapshot from July 7 to 2019 to a July 7 2020. We had 1900 calls for service here in the Randall Village alone. Our top 10, you know traffic stops directed patrols citizens assists, agency assists suspicious events, property watches foot patrols motor vehicle complaints, been verification some welfare checks. Those are our top 10 calls for service here in the village out of 1900 calls. That's a fair lot do we see our major calls to. Yes. When we first took over this contract we had a shooting. You know we have violent domestic violence calls. It's all happening here in the community. Back when COVID was really rampant. We did contract for a second deputy to work a split shift from 11 in the morning to nine at night. And we had to get our hands up all the way around so if another officer had paperwork. The other officer was out on the street. If there was a call for service, there was backup. You know it just it worked hand in hand very very well. Do I see Randall kind of trying to cut down hours. I hope not only because it's it's a needed service here in the community. Can you please post those all that statistical information in the chat I cannot capture that and close captioning that quickly. Please. Sure it's in paper form from me. I mean, I don't know what I mean there's I see all the questions on the chat form. I don't know if there's a way that we can capture these and I can answer them accordingly even after this form. And then post this stuff as well is that a possibility. I'm sure. I think we should try and get through questions as much as we can. I think some of them for stuff that has data. We can put together that email afterwards that'll have maybe follow up information or links to places. I think that's a good idea because probably people won't be able to read it all in the chat either. So I think planning to planning to do that is a good idea. No, I was just thinking for the people that are trying to rely on my poor closed captioning. If they wanted to engage in the conversation right now and wanted to know what those statistics are they need a way to do that. So even if you have your phone and could take a picture of your phone and upload the file into the chat. That would be great. Take a picture of the page in front of you. It's like a fax only. There was also when Scott mentioned the stats. There was 49 people were arrested last year in the village. And the other thing that I think helped Larry's question is that since we have 15 sheriff's vehicles total and all but one is unmarked. So you're seeing what they call an omnipresence in the Randolph community because you have a few of us that live in the community or just on the outsides of the village. So we're we're in town quite a bit and so Randolph is fortunate to have that extra presence within the community. So we have a number of questions in the chat and also a few people who have mentioned in it that they'd like to ask. So I'm going to go back through the chat a little bit and pull some of those out some of them are are similar to others. So there's a question about training and whether the training, whether you're planning with the training changing in light of the current climate with law enforcement in the public. And we covered that a little bit. I mean, we know there's stuff coming down. I had suggested that it might be good to have this kind of a forum in a couple months when those policies are solidified, maybe training questions or policy questions. I don't know if you agree or Neil that it might make sense to to plan a follow up since since it sounds like a lot of those are in flux. But you know, I'm a fan. I feel like quite a few people have felt like their questions didn't really get answered. But I think part of that has to do with the fact that as to 19 just came out and it's coming back. You know, and figure out what that means is still in flux, but being able to answer questions about your own use of force policy and your own fair and impartial policing policy, and how it compares to what you have seen so far. And that will be critical for your community to know what is different and what are you doing, not just, you know, we're working on it, but what are the actual steps, and what are the dates and timelines and again, you know, how are you actively pursuing diverse community input that's what you're going to need to be able to answer it sounds like based on what I'm hearing. When you come back together but absolutely you need to get back together with people because I'm hearing that folks really want that. I'm sorry that's not in the closed captioning and I realize that I'm speaking as quickly as Scott so I apologize. And, or, Tabitha s2 19. That's with the improper restraints. And that did pass. And it's holding law enforcement to a very tight. I'm not using the window about not using any type of choke holds neck holds. Because if a law enforcement officer now causes any severe injury to someone's neck area, say to get into a scuffle, or, or death of that person that law enforcement officers now subject to 20 years in prison and $50,000 fine. I'm not sure if the governor signed that into law yet. I think it went before him yesterday I actually testified on the bill. It includes use of force body cameras which what's going back and for the body cameras is looking at the ACL you recommended recommended policies that all departments should implement. It includes like you said the banning of choke holds and it looks at several other things that have come up tonight. No, you're absolutely right and they put August 1 deadline on this Vermont State Police for for the body cameras and for the rest of us the locals, municipals and sheriffs and all of the law enforcement. And it's going to give us I think they'll give us about a year to to try to find the monies or federal grants to make sure we're all outfitted with those with the body cameras. Thank you. One of the questions from the chat which I'm curious about also is as these new policies are being developed, are you planning to have like more sessions like this or other ways that community can give input and what those how those policies are developed. You know, we get the direct connection right here with Neil, and the bond between actually, you know, I think Scott and Neil is grown tremendously. And we want to work with you know our community and our partners, and making sure we're doing, you know, the right thing here. And it's an ever changing world. And it's, you know, you know, I didn't have an opportunity to, you know, tell a little bit about myself and maybe at another different time I will. But I can tell you this, I am a flat lander. I'm up in Vermont 2128 years now. And I came from a very diverse neighborhood in my in my earlier years. Hey, when I see somebody would then actual hand up Lucy. Yep. Thanks. My quest, can you hear me. Okay, my question is more broad. So, it seems to me like there needs to be a really deep cultural shift in the way that policing happens in the country and Vermont and this is based on a couple of things one is some statistics that are concerning. Black people are seven times more likely to enter correctional facilities in Vermont than white people. Black people in Latinx folks are up to three, three or four times more likely to be pulled over by police. Just to name a couple that paired with the history of policing in America which goes back to basically it was in large part. A long ago, a system put in place to oppress and criminalize and silence people of color. So that history is there. And the reason I'm bringing this up is because Scott your explanation of what you're doing regarding the 10 point program was concerning to me because you kept mentioning that small tweaks here and there need to be a lot of recognition but I think a lot of us would agree that there needs to be like an entire culture shift and I'm not hearing that recognition from your office and I'm wondering if that's in the conversation with you and your coworkers and how you're addressing that on an individual and institutional basis because I think that's going to be the root of making all these policy decisions in a really responsible way. Thank you. Of course, you know the culture shift, you know, absolutely I can agree with you more the it is a way different than when I first got into law enforcement that's for that's for sure. The culture shift all the way around is what is needed. You know, I make you know just like within the policies that we're doing, but you know they're they're all about the how we can better ourselves all the way around to be held to a higher standard. There are a couple of sorry Lucy do you want to follow up on that. Were you happy with that response. Or you still need it again. Oh, okay. Yeah, I that I appreciate that sentiment it feels vague to me, I think, I think what a lot of us need to hear is. I don't want to accuse you of being defensive because I think this is a really tricky subject to talk about and I think that's like a really normal response because I know that you all have done really good work as well but I think what I'm looking for here is like, I want to see like a real recognition of these systemic issues and like, whether or not you like the three of you and bill want it to be this way, like the institution of policing is really sick. And that's why all of these problems are happening across the world and in our own communities and I just I'm wondering if that sentiment is part of your everyday conversation and like how are you taking concrete steps to change that culture in the ways that you can just to be a little more specific. I mean, all this is ever changing all the way around and we're catching up with the times as well. As the sheriff has also said in regards to, you know, we have to be very fluid and and keep rolling with, you know, all these changes, which is also very positive and everyone's function here. And, you know, you talk about everyday conversation and it is an everyday conversation on how, you know, we ourselves are doing things. You know, like I said with the small tweaks of policies and things like that. It's still major changes and we're still trying to, you know, adapt with the depth of the times and change old policies that were written way back when to come up with these times. You know, again, it's very fluid. And you say I'm very defensive. You're right. It is a very tricky and hard conversation to talk about. You're 100% right. And, you know, again, you know, we're trying to do the best we possibly can for all, not just ourselves but for all all the way around so everyone is protected bills asking to be unmuted here as well. Yes, thank you. The last thing I wanted to say was, if this helps, you know, we, we recently made an arrest of a person of color, and we treated that person, just like we treat anyone else. And, you know, the person was was great to work with we had no issues whatsoever. The person was cited into court and released. And it doesn't matter, you know, we don't look at the person's color their skin. We're looking at, you know, what was actually happened. What was, what's the violation, you know, just since we were collecting data race on motor vehicle stops. And, you know, we had approximately maybe a year ago or two years ago we had like 1500 traffic stops total in Orange County. And as a 1500. We had, I think, nine people, African Americans, and 12 people were Asians. Could we, you know, especially nighttime or you're running radar somewhere moving radar, you can't tell a person's race color until you're actually stopping the person in front of them. So, you know, we know this is a very sensitive issue and, you know, I'm sure everyone knows we treat everyone the same. There's, you know, respect and dignity. And I don't know what else to add to that but I'm just I'm giving you, you know, what we do. This is what we do this time we community police, you know, we're out there in the community talking with people. So, you know, the question that Lucy, you know, it is a nationwide level sure I know there's a lot of problems, but we need to recognize that and make sure we don't, you know, bring that stuff here. Thank you. Just a quick response. I don't want to be taking up too much time. I once again feel like my question has been met with a lot of defensiveness and I think that, like, in order for anything to change, every single person on this call who's meeting the sheriffs need to accept the fact that we've all been raised in a culture that whether it's overt or covert has like seated in us these biases and this is going to change unless all of us accept that and I think like that's a really hard, hard, embarrassing, shameful feeling thing to do but like, if that's not happening on the level of our, you know, policing system, then I don't feel very comfortable right now based on these answers and I'm not trying to be overly critical, but I think this is a moment that needs to be met with like a deep reflection and I just, I can't like impress upon upon that more. And I'm just not I'm not hearing that. So I want to let other people talk so that'll be my last Lucy. I am not. I'm not going to be defensive whatsoever. One of the things I think would really help. I think, if, if possible, at your convenience, if you could get a hold of either myself or Scott or even any other deputies, and just ride along and talk to them and you get a better feeling of what we do in our community. I'm truly, I'm not being defensive. We do community policing here. I think Neil's trying to talk. Yes, Neil. Okay. All right. There's two people who had their hand up one is Hannah and one is Peter Reed. Yeah, I think they ought to be let to talk. Yeah, and then after that I saw one message down here. And I'm very frustrated with the meeting and I think I understand that. And I guess what I would like to do is to ask you, anyone in the audience here that wants to after the meeting send me notes of what you would like to have had done and that didn't get done. And maybe we can, I would be happy to revisit this again, if other people want to do it. But there are two people that need to be allowed to talk. Hannah is one and Peter Reed. Hannah. Pardon is that who's waiting. Yeah. You should be able to go Hannah. Okay, thank you. I wanted to follow up on Lucy's questions and I don't think I can speak as as eloquently as she has probably but I did want to sort of compare make a comparison because I work in education. Excuse me, and I have spent a lot of the last few years really understanding how the system of education was not designed and created to be equitable and it was designed with with the outcomes in mind. And my realization that I've come to is that as much as I want to just say I love all my students I care about them I treat them all the same, that if I am not actively on a daily basis working to undo those structures of inequity then I am, then I am perpetuating the inequities. And I think that what I would love to hear. And I don't expect a clear answer tonight because it's a it's a big. It is a big question and it's, it's, it's something that takes a lot of time to, to come to and I'm still moving into different places and this myself but I would love. And my understanding is that as policing also has to be doing that same work as if not if on a daily basis, and this is not, as someone mentioned in the chat is not a personal attack on anyone. I've had wonderful personal interactions with many of the sheriffs and deputies but I just, I think that if we, if we're not constantly reflecting and digging and, and looking how working against the biases that are making the system that they're not going to just go and so I think that that's what I'm, I'm hearing Lucy asking for and I'm asked and I'm hoping that we can hear that that your department is is working in that same way and and seeing this as a continual not one will fix the policy and it's done, but it's an ongoing reflection that we all have to be really humble about an approach with when I give to learning. I, yeah. That's that's what I'm hoping to to here. Thank you and you bring up a very good point all the way around and I couldn't agree with you more that you know we would have to work with this you know every day. You know, whether it's, whether we encounter people of different races and things like that on a daily basis. My answer is no, we don't predominantly it's a community all the way around predominantly our calls for service are with white individuals. I implore and hope that you know this forum also opens a few more doors in regards to community members wanting to have conversations with us personally. We're community members and and I want to release that stick of that it's okay to talk to the blue. Regardless of your race, religion treat all the above. And I could like I said I couldn't agree with you more. It needs to be done on a daily basis. You get the nail on the head. And it's a striving point with all these policy changes is still very very fluid all the way around. But still, if we're not given the opportunity to deal with it on a daily basis, you know what more can we do. I don't have an answer for that right now, because we're still looking into everything that we can possibly do. I don't have those appropriate answers for you. I'm going to unmute Peter read the here. Yeah. You guys are still muted. I thought I got you. Okay. I do want to thank Lucy and Anna for speaking much of what's on my mind but I have a more pressing question. I appreciate that the three folks have gathered in the sheriff's office there. I don't see them wearing masks, and they're very close to one another in a closed room. And I'm concerned about that. Anyone else. There was a note about that in the chat as well people observing deputies interacting with the public without masks as well. So I'm curious. You're right. I'm currently wearing one right around my neck and I never pulled up. So, yeah. I don't have a correct answer for you, mom. Is there a department policy around mass squaring. The written policy in regards to masks but you know in your encounter with the public you are required to wear a mask. The public thing has transpired. I'm looking for any additional hands up. Do you know, I'm not sure I'm saying that right. It's the address. I have a question because I was very concerned when I heard. We don't treat people differently based on their color. So many of us white folk are now attending trainings and reading books and, and how that we can mitigate our own inherent bias. So I'm wondering if anybody in the sheriff's department is doing the same. I'm wondering if Scott can address that because if we're doing the work I would think that is deeply personal in depth work that I would think that the police would need to do the same if we're ever going to change that culture. Yeah, man, you know, currently we are staying abreast with current events and doing that deep reading to get more of a history in regards to everything that's going on. Training is still moving in, you know, a direction that's ever changing. You know, we all attend the fair and partial on bias trainings that is mandated throughout the state. You know, are they few and far between. Yes. But do I expect to see a change coming out of that right now. Absolutely. What that changes. I don't know yet. Almost on bias training that's regarding policing I'm talking about your own personal work and all of your officers own personal work. They don't attend a bus, a training, but if they don't recognize their own inherent biases, it's not going to change. So that's again that's what I'm wondering are people doing that kind of work, not your not your police training, personal training, things that the NAACP is offering. So I strongly encourage every any and every officer to train attend such training. There's no. You can never have enough training all the way around for not only for the individual officers, but for the department as a whole, you can never have enough training. I'm a very firm believer in that is, you know, these things start to kind of work I am working on, you know, trying to go through and most suitable trainings, what is offered, because I also have to play with cost as well. And seeing what we can do with many different aspects to hold these inner apartment trainings with whatever is out there that is most beneficial to for only as a law enforcement level for a personal level. And just one last question. Where exactly is your use of force policy on the website. I have found that I found a fair policing policy but I cannot find anything that says about you support. Let me double check all that around and I will get that right out to you guys. I can't operate two screens at one time. People are putting suggestions for books they have found helpful in the chat. If there's anything that your officers are reading or following that you'd like to share people are interested. Lucy I see your hand up I'm going to see if anybody else has has questions before we come back to you. What else is in the chat room. Tomorrow, I'm going to, or Tamara I'm sorry. I'm going to unmute you. Thank you. I was just wondering. I tend to only skim the surface and I think what Deirdre was getting at is, you know, I'd like to know exactly what you Scott or you bill are actually personally doing in terms of reading the deep reading that you're looting to. What exact books are you reading what types of things are you looking at. I'm looking to mention current affairs and keeping up with the news but that's not what we're talking about. And, you know, I'm going to be brutally honest with you, is that, you know, when I get done here as, you know, a sure step to get home late at night and I've got three young kids. My reading time does not consist of very much anymore. So, you know, I am behind the able in regards to looking for other resources for me myself. And it's, you know, I see a lot of great suggestions, which I am very hopeful and looking into looking at these suggestions right now for me myself personally. I'm going to go right into the chat here the NAACP is going to be holding some virtual study groups in the summer into the winter. For someone that several of the books being mentioned in the chat, which is open to everyone. And those are falling right on your website too right now. We're still in the planning stages they will be available on the website once once we've got dates and times figured out. Back with us on July 15. Yeah, that's our that's our internal deadline. Mickey I see you waving. Yeah, I'm just wondering are there still some other questions in the chat room that we haven't gotten to yet. Yes, there are a lot of questions in the chat. Thank you. Let's try to get a few more of those in. Let's see. Lots of questions. There are questions about working with community groups or, you know, you have when you were giving the statistics in terms of what the calls were like, what of those calls could potentially be answered by someone who is not armed right who's not a police officer and are there community groups that you can work with for mental health calls, say, or or similar things and are there resources that the community could give you to make that more possible. We have a very close relationship with the Clair Martin Center here in town. We also work very hand in hand with Gipper medical. You know, in regard you brought up mental health calls. Regarding such very rarely do am I able to have, you know, mental health screeners or counselors come out in the field. You know, in regards to somebody crisis with the whole COVID thing that has transpired. One of the things that we were working on with Claire Martin was zoom that they could baseline with the person that was experiencing the mental health crisis to go about that way also. But we are working with area communities, such as, you know, Claire Martin Gifford, and we haven't gotten to the point where are they coming out into the field just yet. So we're working on exploring avenues within Orange County in regards to social workers being implemented in the Sheriff's office. But we're just not right there just yet we're still in the early planning stages. It's now. Jacob Kaplan has a question. Jacob I will unmute you. Hi everyone. I'm appreciated Scott's answer. Regarding the involvement of different community resources like the Claire Martin Center. I would just be curious to keep the public informed about that. And maybe further this might take a little bit more communication between those community centers and Scott your team. But, you know, something like if if there is a call that comes in requiring someone a health professional or something like that, that those people would immediately be identified at the same time as you guys Scott. I mean, I would be curious to see what you all do with that in terms of the cooperation between those two entities. I just personally would would like to see that happen and I'm glad to hear that the ball is already kind of rolling so one more thing to add and and Scott if you could, or any of your Scott or bill would would be willing to answer this. I know earlier in this discussion. You brought up the types of calls that you get most frequently. And I just wanted to ask specifically. Do you all find it necessary to be armed during those interactions. And if so why. Yeah. That's, I mean, as a law enforcement officer you're always carrying some type of weapon. In my entire career as a law enforcement officer. I've drawn my gun a few times a very small handful of times, but never discharged. I did earlier in regards to the question about being hyper vigilant and always being aware of your surroundings. That's one of the key points. You know, and the policy procedures that we have in place for the use of firearms and deadly force. Again, and all that kind of force and also is all documented through our department by policy. So your question in regards to do I feel that I should go on to every single call. My answer is yes. Do I need said firearm on every single car. No, because it stays in the holster. And like I said, in my career as a law enforcement officer, I draw my weapon a very small handful of times and never discharged. But the weapon is there for our safety and public safety. It's not there as a show of force or anything like that. But I know it is perceived as such. Does that answer your question sir. Yeah, yeah that does. I'm just curious when officers even unholster the firearm is that documented as well. Yeah, it is. Every time the weapon gets on it is a document. Okay, great. Is that public record? Or is that kept in internal? It is kept internal, but we and again that's that fluid mix that we're kind of going through that. And versus their transparency is what we're working on. Someone could put in a public records. One question from earlier in the meeting was what efforts are being made to recruit more diverse applicants. Again, I'm going to be brutally honest with you. My African pool thus far has been very minimal. I think I've got two applicants for deputy in the last couple months. And I am in desperate need of dispatchers. I'm not really all my agreements are white. But I'm not really seeing the applications coming in as what I have in the past. So the answer is nothing. Pretty much. Tom. Oh, you're still muted. There you go. Thank you. Thank you, Caitlin. Can you everybody hear me now? Okay, good. I think it's a significant concern. And this is actually probably a question best for sure. That there does not seem to be a concerted statewide effort among law enforcement. To mandate diversity and racial bias training as a routine part of preparing officers for going out in the field. And I'm wondering if the state sheriff's associations has looked at this issue and whether there's consideration being given. Also among police chiefs and the state police to diversity and racial bias training being a formal part of the training that new officers go through. It actually is. It is. Yes. I sit on the committee. Okay. So, so who, who gives that training? Currently it's a town now is right in Longo who is co-chair of the fair and partial policing committee. He's a community member and he works with Lieutenant or Captain Gary Scott. Okay. And it's also mandated every other year fair and impartial policing training. Okay. I will tell you it's not great. And it's not, I mean, we were just talking about it today. It needs so much more. And it should be its own. And it's a very supportive training. We're talking about how to make it bigger and better and infuse it through all parts of policing. How does it, if I can just follow up on that, how does it get to the roots? Somebody raised the question earlier about whether officers are pursuing coming to terms with their own racial biases. How does it address sort of the innate racial biases that white people are born into this world with? Let's face it. I'm just curious how you get to that as part of the process of really getting individuals to look at themselves. And not just the broader question of fair and equitable policing, but, you know, down in the gut and the heart, you know, of really dealing with it on an individual level. Caitlin, do you want to take over closed captioning? And Bill, do you want to answer this or do you want me to? Yeah, I can unmute Bill. And you, um, yeah, let me see if I can. Bill has his hand up. Do you want to answer it? Would you like me to? Let's both do it. How's that? Okay. Do you want to start or do you want me to start? You can start. Go ahead. Okay. So in the academy, they have a four hour block called thrown impartial police and training. Aside from that, we're working on integrating more into, especially into the intro where they learn about the bias history and the racist history of policing. They watch the movie 13th and they talk about the new Jim Crow and other resources like that. And then in the four hour block with Dr. Nasred and Longo, who is an African American man, he talks to them about implicit bias and about personal experience with bias as well. So is it sufficient? No. And the criminal justice training council will tell you it is not sufficient. It's nowhere near sufficient, which is why we're constantly trying to revise it. That's why they're supposed to have ongoing training, but the hope is that the personal connection we just talked today about Dr. Nasred and Longo continuing to stay on at the academy for an additional couple of days to continue to develop relationships with the new recruits. This is the one-tenth, I believe, to help them to start to talk about racism in their own lives and to develop those sorts of connections that will help them to reflect more honestly with themselves about what's going on. Bill, do you want to take it? Yeah. Oops. We're not, we're not hearing Bill. Yeah, yeah, Bill, you're garbled. Sure. Maybe he moved to an area in his house where there's poor reception, not that I have personal experience. Was that Tom that was speaking, Tom, while we're waiting for Bill to catch up? Was there anything that you wanted to say in response to that? Because like I said, we know it's not inadequate. No. I'm on there, NAACP. No, I just, I just gained the impression earlier from what Scott was saying that diversity and racial bias training was not a routine part of things. And so that was a misunderstanding on my part. But no, I don't have any follow-up. Thank you for. That was Act 50s. Oh, I'm always terrible with Act number 56 that passed three years ago that mandated fair and impartial policing training and more comprehensive component in the Criminal Justice Training Council program. But I think as Hannah and Lucy pointed out, departments have to be doing so much more on their own. You have to, you can't not because it is such an insidious part of what we do. A lot of the answers tonight were, you know, I, you know, half there because you haven't had the opportunity to even understand what you don't know, you know, you don't know what you don't know. Right, right, right. I think there's a real merit to that ongoing engagement on the part of the departments and the officers. I mean, even here in Randolph, our library is conducting ongoing reading groups. I noticed that my friend and colleague and neighbor here in the community Ramsey Papp posted something earlier about a book group that she's involved in. I would just really encourage the sheriff's department and all of our first responders around the area to take it upon themselves as a department and as individuals to continue the work that gets done at the academy and make it a personal commitment. I think it's really important. I think it's really important for all of us. I mean, I'm an elected official here in Randolph and I see others from the select board in the state legislature on this call and I think we all need to do the work. We all need to do the work. Wow, Sheriff Bill. There you are, Bill. So, just getting back with the Academy. Instead of four hours, it should be a minimum at the Academy level 16 hours. And then it doesn't stop there. It's, it's back when you're back at the office back with your department. The cadet comes out of the Academy, you know, I believe it's up to almost 20 weeks now. When they come back, you know, you're, they got to be on like an FTA FTO program field training and you keep an eye on and see how they interact with people and even their general talk if you see biases, whether you know they just their general interactions. We need to pay attention to that. And if we see that we need to correct it. And if we can't correct it, then the person needs to go down the road and find another line of work. We can't tolerate it. And I know you're going to see a huge change at the Academy level. The reason I bring that up is that in Tabitha and Caitlyn probably know this already that the Vermont criminal justice training council has added the ACLU migrant, not migrant justice but Human Rights Commission to the council members. And they add, I believe that there's a line, any other interested parties. So, you're going to see a change at the Academy. And that's where I think you'll, the new officers will really get a better understanding of what is going on in our communities, and what's going on, not just in our communities but statewide nationwide. And you're right. The biases are everywhere. You know, the indirect bias. You know, we need to realize that and making sure we're getting and teaching our officers, you know, the training and education they need to deal with these issues. It's here. It's, it's now we must face it. So we're at 730, which is how long this meeting was planned to last I want to be respectful of people's time but I know we did not get to everyone's questions. It sounds like the sheriff's department is open to second forum or further forums and it sounds like people are interested in that. And I just want to add one more thing. In the near future, we'll be doing some in house training on different aspects of law enforcement. And what we want to do is, you know, advertise this to the public and invite the public in to get a flavor of what we what we do for training and how we do training. Stay tuned that that's going to happen. Thank you. Thank you, I see you waving. Yeah. Just a reminder. Yeah, yeah. I want to say what I said a few minutes ago that I'm going to contact each one of you and to try and get feedback of things that weren't answered for you tonight, and ways that we could go forward because I, I think a lot of students need to be continued to be said and worked on. And I'd like to do another meeting down the road after we get some feedback. I can't moderate and type at the same time. Let me take over one or the other. Either you want to keep typing if you want to wrap up. Okay. So, a quick wrap up issue I guess I don't really have a whole lot to say other than thank you Caitlin for moderating Neil and Mickey for putting this together I really do hope that the Randolph community continues to ask your law enforcement officials difficult questions law enforcement officials I hope you continue to grow based on what they tell you. And we're going to get through it. Right. Thank you all for asking all of the questions I apologize to anyone who's relying on my terrible closed captioning skills my hands are sore right now. Neil, close us out. I do want to thank everyone for coming out. You do have one person that had one quick statement a 10 second statement that needed to be made before you think everybody that would be Becca. I'm meeting you. Go ahead. You're still unmuted you but we can't hear you. It's kind of the worst. Can you hear me now. Yes. I just wanted to say thank you I really appreciate you guys getting us together and I want to say thank you especially to our law enforcement officers. I know they're making a lot of changes and that they may not know what that looks like now and but I appreciate all they have done and they'll continue to do for us and that's all I want to say. Thank you back on thanks to the community for showing up and caring enough to keep going on the dialogue. I just want to take one second. I can't see everyone's face. If there are any people who are people of color who want a moment to speak, I wanted to just like hold space for that specifically since there has not been a lot of input from that community. I just wanted to make sure that folks want to raise their hands or send me a message. Just give it a moment. Okay. Got a lot of us showed up. This is a hard face to be in. I understand that. Thank you. Okay. One for doing this for me. And thank you. Always new. Are we done? All right. So yeah, so we'll send a follow up email to everybody. And look for another one in the future.