 2021, I'm Tim Appachelle, your host, and today's title is Trump's Loose Lips on the Road Again. You know, if you're an employee, if you're a prosecutor in the Southern Manhattan, Manhattan District of New York City and you've just filed 15 charges of criminal charges against the Trump organization, you've got to be loving the fact that Donald Trump is on the road again. And you got to love the fact that he was in Sarasota, Florida. And you got to love the fact that he basically admitted to all the charges levied against the Trump organization. And he did so on stage at his rally, a Save America rally on July the third. And what did Donald Trump say? He said, well, and I quote, you didn't pay taxes on car or company apartment or education for your grandchildren. They indict people for that, but not for murder or selling massive amounts of the worst drugs in the world that kill people left and right. And that's all right. I don't know, do you have to? Does anyone know about this stuff? So let me introduce my guest today. Today we have Jay Fidel, Stephanie Dalton, and Winston Welch. Welcome everyone. Welcome to What Now America. Don't forget Cynthia Sinclair. Oh, Cynthia's on. Sorry about that, Cynthia. And Cynthia Lee Sinclair. Good morning. Good to you, Jay. Good morning. Good morning. Apologize, I've had some technical difficulty. So without eyes here. Hey, Jay, going to you, Donald Trump once again, for four years, he basically said anything that came rolling across his mind despite the advice from his advisors, despite what he's told not to say, but he still comes out to the microphone and says, free flowing thoughts. Now, if you're Alan Weiselberg and you've just been charged 15 counts of tax evasion totaling $1.7 million, how are you feeling about Donald Trump basically not defending that these charges are inaccurate or are unfair, but basically admitting to him and saying, well, what's the big deal? There's other people that don't get charged for these things. And why are they picking on Trump and Trump incorporated? If you're Alan Weiselberg, how do you feel about that? A little more nervous. But remember, there's already a spreadsheet that really expresses all of that, which is good evidence. They have it, they'll use it. I suppose they'll also use Trump's comments. Bottom line is they can prove it. They can prove that these things were off the chart and they were a violation of the tax law. But you can see what he's doing. He's appealing to his base. He's appealing to people who don't know better. He's appealing to people, think about how destructive this is. He's saying the whole system is broken. It's all broken. And you shouldn't punish me because the whole thing is broken. I am one of many, many people who violate the law and you should criticize the prosecutors. You remember, you guys, I made a list of 50 things that I thought Trump would do. In fact, we made a video of it. 50 things that Trump would do in order to invade prosecution in New York, both state and federal. And it's one of them. You attack the prosecution. The prosecution's prosecuting me. They should be prosecuting other people for more serious crimes, which is again a big lie because they do. They do prosecute. And they do prosecute white collar crimes. But he's trying to, he's attacking the system. He's attacking the prosecutor. He's appealing to the base. And I suppose that means, at least in part, the jury. So it's not a surprise. It's off the chart in terms of his loose lips. It will at least theoretically hurt him. But on another level, this kind of destruction is not unusual for him. Right. I'm gonna get back to Alan Weisselberg and these comments that Donald Trump's made. But it's the same rally. Donald Trump led out his game plan that he's really followed for four years. And at the rally, he said, when it comes to false claims, you just need to keep repeating them over and over and over again. And then they'll become fat. And he said that at the rallies. And he really laid his cards out that we've all known when he's done for four years. But I was surprised that he did it again. And then he said, and we have to stop the Democrats from doing that. The bottom line is, he doesn't know when to stop. And if you're, again, if you're Alan Weisselberg, don't you think that now it's much easier for him to say, okay, I've had enough. I can't, you know, he's basically trying to throw me under the bus with these comments. Do you think there's a likelihood Weisselberg may finally flip on Donald Trump on this? Well, A, he hasn't yet. B, yes, I do. I think he's closer to flipping. And, you know, that decision goes on, although, you know, there's a window of time when you could flip and that window may close at some point. At some point, the prosecutor's not going to be interested in making a deal. So I think, you know, this does present a reason for several reasons for Weisselberg to more carefully consider flipping. And the question for him, if you put yourself in his shoes, the question for him is whether Trump, A, is in a position to help him, to defend him, to pardon him. And the answer is probably not. I suppose A, A and a half is whether someone else who might win as president, next time around 2024, would be in a position, oh no, a pardon is not going to help. It's a state of fence. So if we can't forget pardons. So the question is whether Trump or his friends can help Weisselberg and the answer is legally no. And then the question is whether Trump would help, will help, actually be loyal and faithful to Weisselberg after all their years together. You know, that's another part of Weisselberg's decision. And if I'm a Weisselberg, I wouldn't feel confident about that at all because Trump has demonstrated that you can't trust him. Even his most trusted, you know, minions can't trust him. So it's a real dicey question. As Trump goes down, you can see it on the XY axis on a chart. As Trump's power goes down, as he fragments and makes more of a fool of himself as you know, some Republicans abandon ship as his base potentially abandon ship, he's less influential on Weisselberg. And assuming Weisselberg moves before the window closes, if I were advising Weisselberg, I said, I would say flip man, flip not only for your sake and to do the right thing, but for the sake of the country, flip man, flip. Yeah. And if you're Donald Trump, you have to remember that Weisselberg, back when Trump University was being investigated, Weisselberg was deposed. And his deposition did not help Donald Trump. In fact, Donald Trump was basically convicted of it, where, you know, so much that he had to pay millions of dollars in restitution and he's not allowed to have any kind of Trump University or Trump charity. Cause he totally abused those two entities. So we'll see how, you know, Donald Trump has faith or not faith in his old accountant friend. Just remember accountants know where everything's head and ask Al Capone, well, you can't ask Al Capone, but Al Capone found that out the hard way. Well, sure. And they got him on tax. But let me add one of the point worthy in the mix here, worthy of consideration. And that is the news reported this morning that Trump has sued with others in the Republican Party, his friends, I guess, Facebook and Google and Twitter for locking him out. And he says that's a violation of his rights. He claimed it was a violation of his First Amendment rights. But as we know, First Amendment rights only apply to government. They don't apply to private organizations like Google and Facebook and Twitter. That it's irrelevant. So, you know, he's got another pack of lawyers that don't know which end is up. But anyway, he's attacking those three companies. And the legal pundits at this point are saying there's no way that suit is going to succeed. But somehow that suit is important in this whole decision by Weisselberg. Because if he fails in that suit, if it's bounced out of court on a motion, then what, by the way, I think he cast it as a class action, which is very strange. If that suit fails for some reason, it's sort of another sign of Trump's deterioration. If he succeeds, well, that'll show us that Trump still has some power. And if he gets back on Twitter, that'll be scary. Yeah, I agree with that statement. It's just knowing the resources that Zuckerberg has on Facebook and Google, excuse me, not Google, but Twitter, they probably can stretch that case out to 2026 if they wanted to. So that may not be resolved anytime soon. Let me, thank you, Jay, let me go to Stephanie. Hey, Stephanie, again, Donald Trump is back to his old ways. I mean, it's like we've had a little hiatus from him. And in his message about the Southern Manhattan District going after him, he also made it very clear that nobody from no one has ever been prosecuted on tax evasion from the Southern Manhattan District. And that he's the only one and he's been unfairly targeted. And I guess Donald Trump forgot about someone named Leona Helmsley back in 1980. There's actually video footage of him criticizing her and her ability to activate the city of New York. So once again, Donald Trump says one thing, but he forgets that he was an active participant in the criticism of Leona Helmsley and her hotel chain. Do you find that in keeping what Donald Trump usually does or is this, was this a strategy in your mind? Well, I just, I, yeah, thanks, Tim, for the question. I just think that I have to say that Jay pointing out how he turns it around and how the strategy for us all to remember when we're in court or being prosecuted. You turn it around and make it something that the law is the problem because nobody's following it anyway. And it's the lawyer that's the problem or something else than it is your problem. So I mean, it's just amazing how that is just shouting from the rooftops of that. And I think the American people are smarter than that. And certainly the ones on his jury from Manhattan would be much smarter than to do that. I mean, none of us would accept any of this from our kids. I mean, and so everything is okay because everybody does it. I mean, how many of us haven't been through those lines? How many times either as our own selves, with our own parents and then turning it around and dealing with them, it as parents ourselves. I'm just, it's just appallingly weak and it's so appallingly not up to the task. I mean, he's just trying to play a game that belongs on this fifth grade playground, if that. So I think that the American people are gonna wind down on this because it's really not interesting. And I think there is the other side of it which has to do with the cars he's talking about are Mercedes Benz's and other plug-in cars and not your three bedroom one bathroom out there in Kansas apartment that you ran team with not enough bedrooms for your family. So, I mean, this is eventually gonna seep into people's heads. I do have faith that we have, certain people are smart enough to get past this for a while. Well, I'm glad to hear you say that. I'm glad to hear you say this will seep in because a big part of his rally in Sarasota, Florida was again sticking to the big lie that he was cheated out of the second term as president of the United States. Going to Jay's point about, he didn't be unlocked out and he's got a class action suit against Twitter and Facebook, but the reason he's been locked out of Facebook and Twitter is because he kept trying to promote the big lie and of course his erroneous statements about COVID-19. I mean, that's basically the two reasons why he's been locked out of both with those social media accounts. And so here he is again on Fox and Newsmax now or whatever the name of it is. And he's again promoting the big lie, which is as you know, was a big impetus for the January 6th invasion of the Capitol. So if he continues to do this, where does that get him? Again, going to your comment, will people finally say enough enough on the big lie and no matter how many times you repeat it doesn't necessarily make it so. What do you think about his strategy on just continuing to hammer on the big lie? Well, I mean, it's shifted over to power for the people being that they can now, they can come out of the closet and now they're marching for white supremacy and they're marching for, you know, getting rid of all the other people. And so that's our prop. That's the big mountain to work with, how we're going to dig through that. But because what they're doing is they're now having the freedom to express what previously was not okay, was certainly not politically correct, much less anything that's in our norms and value system. So they're getting a lot of satisfaction out of being able to do that. And so we'll see how that goes because, yeah, I mean, it's, yeah, I say it's still, it's problematic and we have to learn to have patience or we have to learn that how to turn these things around on the people themselves, like all this stuff with the 1619 and the critical race theory and how I mean, it's not being taught to first graders, much less even 12th graders like grappling with that stuff. And so somehow we, the other side has to learn how to turn that around to show the disconnect. There's no connect there between K-12 and these issues. And so that then, no, it's a tough. Thank you. It's your call point, Tim, that you've made in the past too. So how did those things usually play out? Right. Thank you, Stephanie. Cynthia, do you agree with Stephanie that the administration needs to be patient and lay back and just let Donald kind of wear himself out on sticking to the big line and the fact that the election was stolen from him? Or sure, President Biden used the bully pulpit and used the fact that we know all the audits and oh my goodness, the months and months of verifying that this was a free and fair election, probably more scrutinized than any election in the past. Should Joe Biden do that? Should he use the bully pulpit and say enough's enough because you're creating dissension amongst the population or should, or to take Stephanie's advice and maybe just lay back and be patient? What do you think, Cynthia? I don't think that any Democrat should just lay back and be patient. I do believe that people will start falling away as Jay has been saying for months now. People will start falling away. His words will have less and less meaning. His hypocrisy will show more and more. So people will fall away, but I don't think we should be complacent and just wait for that to happen because like, you know, Jay was saying the lie. He said it, you know, you say a lie, you repeat it over and over and over until it becomes truth. Well, if he's the only one out there telling the lie, then it might have a better chance of becoming truth if other people aren't standing up and saying more and more. So I think that I understand that Joe Biden doesn't wanna make this a struggle and us against them all the time. He's trying to sort of cool down those waters, but by the same token lies are lies. And if you don't confront the lies, they continue. So I think that the lies should be addressed, not necessarily him as a person or how horrible he is, but the lies, just confront the lies. Have Jen Saki at, you know, the press conference. If Biden- So to quote Joe Friday, just the facts, ma'am, hit the facts and forget about the personality. And the thing I find kind of funny about this whole, he's going after the social media companies for freedom of speech, right? The First Amendment. Yet he's also going after Saturday Night Live and other reporters that have said bad things about him, which shows very clearly that he does not understand what the First Amendment is when he gets up there. Okay, good point. Very good point, Cynthia. Thank you for your comment. Winston, yesterday represented the six-month anniversary of the Capitol invasion. And Donald Trump didn't waste that pending anniversary at all when he was in Sarasota, Florida on stage because he was basically implying that the person who shot Ashley Babbage, he was the insurrectionist that broke in through the window and was shot and was killed that day on January the 6th. And he's taking the tact of, there was something wrong with the defense of the floor, the Congress, the floor of Congress, and it resulted in a death and there was something wrong with that. What he said is, who's the killer of Ashley Babbage? And implying blame. So, Winston, what's your impression about that tact and Donald Trump's ability to, again, lose lips come from this thing at an angle that's completely bizarre and most inappropriate? Yeah, that's it, Jim. It is most inappropriate. It's sad that he would use that to, but he's a master distractor and that's just what he does. And the less oxygen we give him, the better. It's so nice when we change the name of the show from the week in Trump to what's next America because that's really where we're at. And this is part of the cleanup on aisle four through seven and then includes the two of aisles 12 through 29 and on. Our nation's... And it was sticky molasses that hit the ground and takes a while to clean it up. It's just not that, it's everything. It's a disaster and we are cleaning up. We've been hit with the hurricane, with a typhoon, with an earthquake and just, this is part of it. This is part of just stepping back and saying, wait a minute here, this just doesn't pass basic smell test. Donald Trump has been involved the USA today. And I just encourage the viewer of the show to Google Donald Trump lawsuits, something like that. Wikipedia, the source of all knowledge has a great article on the legal affairs of Donald Trump where they talk about that in June of 2016, the USA today did an analysis of litigation involving him. He and his businesses have been involved in over 3,500 legal cases. That was in 2016. That was before all these other cases that have arisen since then. It says he was a defendant in 1900 of those, a third party in 150. He was named in 169 federal lawsuits at least. It says there's work in 1,300 cases where the record establishes an outcome. Trump settles 175 times, even though he says he never settles. Of course he does, but he goes as his former lawyer said, he just attacks that, right? He just goes on the offense like Jay was saying, you prosecute the prosecutor. He's the bad guy. Look at him. This tax code is so bad. It says while he settled 175 times, he lost 38. And he won 450. There were another unclear outcomes from this article in 137 cases. But the overwhelming, I think message there is Donald Trump wins a lot in court. And just the bullying fear tactic of going to court about something puts people off. Now when it's the government with endless resources, that's not gonna be an issue. When it's the state of New York, that's not gonna be an issue. When it's, so those things will go forward. And when there's, it's really an interesting tactic. And I think Jay's spot on. He is saying, I'm not the problem. I'm innocent here because my guilt is so obvious because the tax code is so confusing. And for me, I couldn't possibly, so I couldn't, I skirted these things, but what else would you expect? And don't you have trouble filling out your 1040? As Joe Q said, but anyway, if you're a Trumpican and you're a Colt member, you're gonna believe whatever he says and he's gonna tell you who's to blame and how to play for it. But bringing in that unfortunate death is just part of the sideshow. And then just look over there, look over there. There's a shiny bright object and he is a master manipulator and distractor of that. I don't know how well received he was at his rally, but I'm sure it was pretty popular down in Florida and he still carries a lot of weight. And importance in the party and in our nation too much so, but he's not gonna get anywhere with his Google, Facebook, Twitter lawsuits. And that is part of removing the oxygen and not giving him the platform as much as possible. Let's see what Marjorie Taylor Greene has to say about it. She's also the intellectual head of the Republican Party now along with, I don't know what Mitch McConnell's title actually is if I were to give it one, but yeah, let's see what the brain is. All righty. Okay, hey, thanks Winston. Jay, staying on this topic at the six month anniversary of January 6th and the invasion of the Capitol, Donald Trump again was implying not in Sarasota, but certainly before that he's gonna be reinstalled as President of the United States sometime in August or maybe even September. There actually seems to be some concern that his loyal followers may come back to the Capitol again and they're not ready. What do you think about Donald Trump's prediction that he is gonna somehow be reinstalled as President of the United States? And as he set himself up for an embarrassment, of course, he never seems to be adverse to embarrassment and he seems to get right through it, but why would he try to say that he's gonna be reinstalled when clearly that's not gonna happen? Another shiny object, it's like a reality show. It's like the reality show he did in the apprentice. The idea is to keep the ball in the air, keep provoking people. You wanna do everything you possibly can to be provocative and to tweak the big so to speak and to keep yourself at the top of the news heap. So what he's done, not only in his administration but all his life. So he's got a soul of guessing about what's gonna happen in August. It's a fair chance nothing is gonna happen in August but there's also the chance that he will create violence using his violent base. And I hope the FBI is covering that closely because it could be another insurrection. Well, here's the issue. Here's the unfortunate issue is that is that the Washington Capitol Police, they still haven't received their equipment as yet. Mass of termination, not terminations but massive amount of officers have quit because they're either low moral is so low or a lot of them were close to retirement anyway and they've had enough. So there's a lot of PUCAs in the employment of the Capitol Police. And then of course you have members of Congress constantly trying to undermine the Capitol Police. So all the above is not making for a good phalon so to speak if there is violence coming back to the Capitol in August or September. Your thoughts? I would have to agree. I think the way you framed this originally if you look back at the past six months the six month anniversary. Six months is a long time in the year 2021. And if you look at what's happened it's a study in action. It's a study in, I don't wanna say status quo but it's a study in failure to solve and address the problems. The Republicans have stood in the way of any commission although Nancy may do something now it hasn't started it's six months later and it hasn't started. The impeachment failed if you remember there are still GOP members of Congress who are probably involved in the insurrection of January 6th. They haven't changed. They haven't relented aside from Liz Cheney and maybe one or two others lesser. They haven't come out and they're still there. And they presumably would support him if he tried it again. On the other hand I would say the military might have been confused that due to Mike Flynn's brother back on January 6th under General Milley and Austin they're probably not gonna be confused this time and they will defend the capital by force if necessary. On the other hand I'm really not so sure about the FBI. They have identified 535 people as of yesterday and they had one result of a woman who got probation in all of this time there's been no punishment of anyone who was there that day. This is really bad news. No investigation, no fact-finding, no punishment in six months. So I'm not sure the government is functioning and then you get the voting rights bill where the GOP is making inroads on a very system of government and the Supreme Court is in space. I'm not sure whether it's Mars or Pluto. It could be Saturn but they're in space. They don't understand what's happening in this country. I wonder what they're reading and watching. Maybe it's all Newsmax. Bottom line is Congress is out of commission. The Supreme Court as far as I'm concerned is out of commission. Joe Biden is a nice guy but as Stephanie said he doesn't really get right. Get right wasn't Stephanie or Cynthia or both. It doesn't really get in Trump's face. So the result is that Trump is getting away with a lot of stuff. His base, his minions, his GOP friends in the Senate, McConnell getting away with a lot of stuff. We have had six months of vacuum. So who's to say what's gonna happen now? I am not confident. And listening to Winston who is usually very optimistic, I'm slightly less confident. All right. Well, I think we're almost out of time. I wanna go around that table very quickly for last comments. Jay, you'll have the last word. I'll come back to you. Stephanie, your last comments or thoughts? Well, I believe that Weisselberg, while he has been working for Trump for 40 years, he's self-serving. And I guess when you work for the demon you become the creature yourself. But there is the point like with Michael Cohen where you understand what you've been doing and what you have done. So in addition to whether he wants his O'Coley in the cell for the last 10 years of his life or under that kind of pressure, but he might actually be a man of conscience. I mean, but maybe he isn't. I don't know whether he is. I think we're waiting. We will see whether he is. And if he is, he'll turn. But even- Well, like Jay said, there's a very short window and you're right, we'll see. Yeah, but it has to be- Correct. I mean, in ways that reflect his own stature as a moral man. And that's a great thing for him to have to face. So I give him, I think, you know, he's struggling. He's got to be struggling with all of this. And we'll see what will come out. But then maybe he's just a creature. What, you look into the hole of the demon and you become the demon yourself if you look there too long. It looks back at you and takes you. Okay, all right. Hey, Stephanie, thank you so much for your last thoughts. Going to you, Cynthia. Last thoughts or words? Well, I actually have two things. And one is sort of a comment to the whole, what good does it do Trump to talk about, coming back in September or August or whatever? It gives fuel to the audit, that's going on in Arizona. That's what I think. Because the thing that I hear from Fox News and stuff is that they believe that this audit in both Pennsylvania and or Michigan and Arizona is going to overturn the electors. They'll be able to call back the electors and then Biden will be an illegitimate president and Trump will be ensconced back in the White House. And that's what I've heard on Fox News, which is just sort of terrifying altogether. But my last thing that I want to say is I don't know if you guys have heard but there's a new, I think it's Michael Bennett. Is it Robert Bennett? Sorry, I lost it for a second. Michael Bennett, Michael Benner, excuse me is coming out with a new book. And he in this book talks about the fact that Trump is said to have said to General Kelly when he was the secretary of state or the chief of staff, sorry. Well, Hitler did a lot of good things. And this is the myth and this is I'm quoting Michael Benner here. Trump reportedly told Kelly who was explaining to the 45th president who the allies and the adversaries were in both world wars according to Benner. Well, you know, that doesn't surprise me because his first wife basically stated that Donald Trump always kept a copy of mine comp that is bedside. Now, hard to believe that Donald Trump reads anything but that's not too far out of the realm of possibilities. By the way, he carries on as an autograph. According to Benner, Trump was completely undeterred when Kelly told him that and persisted in his defense of the German dictator by claiming the country made economic gains under Hitler's leadership. Well, there you go. All right, thanks for those two points. Winston, your last thoughts about the reemergence of Donald Trump on the stage or anything else? You know, I'll keep it short so I can maybe help Jane become more optimistic. There have been investigations going on these last six months. There have been the things that we don't know about. They are going behind the scenes. I don't think Weisselberg's gonna flip on taxes, being a moral man. He checked that baggage at the door 30 years ago. So I wouldn't expect anything there. Nothing's gonna happen to Donald Trump either but his companies might be slowly shut down. Do they convict him? Do they convict Weisselberg? He'll get convicted and then go to the country prison for 18 months and then get out. But the damage is being done now. And Joe Biden is right. Don't give Donald Trump one minute of time. He has other things he needs to focus on. Any moment that he gives to him just is like a bellows into that oxygen furnace and he does not need to go there. So I think that he's right. And let's let our system work. Jay is right on those other points about maybe the Supreme Court's a little bit AWOL, but they might be saving the bullets for things that we don't know about. And the Congress itself, okay, completely dysfunctional. As I said, let's hear what Marjorie Taylor Green, the intellectual head of the Republican Party has to say about things. But otherwise, let's not give this and the Donald too much more oxygen or does not give him any oxygen or breathing space. All right, great point. Thank you, Winston. Hey, Jay, you have the last word, your thoughts. Well, first I totally agree with Winston. You know, we've got to keep him off the bandstand. That's the secret and Joe Biden is right to keep him off the bandstand. You can't engage with a psychopath. And I remember in the practice of law, once you found that somebody in a case in which you were involved was a psychopath, the best result, the best way to deal with that was to ignore him or her to the extent possible. And that's what Biden is doing and it's right. It's a good decision and he has to maintain that. The other thing is, and I leave you with this thought, all about timing. You know, the whole distraction strategy that Trump has engaged in all his life is about timing. You slow ball sometimes and you quick ball other times and you use time as a weapon. Now he is going to use time to delay and obfuscate these prosecutions until they don't mean anything to anybody. It's just another way that he will defend himself. But watch the timing, watch where he's speeding it up, watch where he's slowing it down and you can see what I mean. Can I just say? That's a great observation. So Tim, he went to military school for high school and from what the comments are that his instructors there for how he managed his duties and his punishments and marching times. And this is probably where he got grounded himself in techniques to confront that system and to overcome it because he did. He did do that and didn't. All right, well, I guess we'll find out what he's up to in the next rally to see what else he says. But I like the idea in the comments about don't give him any more oxygen than necessary. And I think those are sage words. And we run out of time. So I want to thank everyone who's on the show here for What Now America. I want to thank Jay Fidel, Stephanie Dalton, Cynthia Lee Sinclair and Winston Welch. Join us next week, Wednesday at 11 o'clock. I'm Tim Appichell, your host and join us for What Now America next week. Aloha everyone.