 Hello everybody, if it's Wednesday, it's Warhammer and that must mean it's time for another episode of Warhammer Weekly Joining me as always is my co-host painter man Extraordinaire Tyler. What's up, buddy? How you doing? Hey, man? Good to be here. It's everybody. It's good to have you We're gonna be undoubtedly just talking about this is gonna become a hobby focus show We're only talking painting from here on out. This is the last regular So look forward to that also joining us we missed him last time so we got him on the on the swing back Jack the one the only from re-rolling ones. What's up, brother? Thank you for having me on and I'm glad you were able to have James. I mean in John. I'm sorry And they're on and they did a great job I was a nervous firm because it can be intimidating but you guys hit it out of part and I just you know It was I didn't want to talk about crowboys. So it was actually a ruse I don't want to I didn't know anything about him. So no, but if they did a great job, so I was very happy for It was wonderful. They were great and I've been very much enjoying the the battle reports that they've been in a lot of fun I watched James I bear's name is easy to remember James, right? That's okay. Yeah, James. Yeah, thank you I watched James play Skaven against you and that about my brain The story behind that one that was a impromptu You know because I had a family emergency that week. There's a reason why I couldn't be on Where I'm a weekly as well and and so we were just knocking put some now And they you know unbeknownst to me They're like a we want to keep the street going because you kind of get a little you're back on channel And like they did it and it was one of those things like ooh Hey, I appreciate what you did I really appreciate it But you know read the rules a little bit more thorough when you play But yeah, it was yeah, I appreciate what they did. It was there's a lot of it But I got a couple things it was you know, it was uh There's one of those like fanfiction games. It was it was narrative. Sure. Absolutely. Just a narrative game Yeah, no, it was super fun to watch as always and I love watching Skaven kill Sylvaneth That's one of my favorite things in the world So it was certainly enjoyable, but yes as it like when you're a Skaven player who's played like I 100 200 games of Skaven sets the book came out, you know, you're just like And I wish I think every seven of player would love to strike and fade in both turns It's not good enough right now strike and fade it's just not good Gotta pump it up You know shoe gets a you know, he gets some handicaps when you play it, you know, there you go given his rolling That's probably it's probably essential But at any rate, it's good. It's great stuff re-rolling one's channel will be linked below You guys have been putting out a lot of great battle reports. I really do recommend them All the games are really fun to watch. You got a bunch of great people on there So I'm very glad to see it back. But of course tonight. We're gonna be talking about Something that I think shoe actually might have mentioned in that Skaven Sylvaneth report Which is like he was frustrated with the complexity with the choices. He had analysis Paralysis and he was like if only there was a better way well shoe We're here for you tonight. So This whole show is just dedicated to him But we're gonna be talking about a starter battle pack a simpler battle pack another way that we could make this to reduce Some of the complexity of a OS 3.0, but first of course the news Tyler I'm convinced we do need to start a school of dice rolling Like shoe I'm convinced that there are people who just don't know how to roll dice They consistently wrote her bunch so she would get free entry to the school just a free free admission that men needs to help Rimmer engine. I have no idea what this is sisters a battle. Maybe don't bring her crusades It's the first of all two things your voice echoes Tyler for some reason and now me a little bit We tested it beforehand. It wasn't yeah, Jack So you might want to turn your game down just a little bit that should clear it out because it's just it's just barely picking it up We were having some tech troubles. We were resolving beforehand and we thought we killed it But of course yeah, good. You're great now. No issues First of all, I don't care about this room. Rengent. This is a terrible room. Rengent. This is nothing. This is nothing next Like I'm not even debating it. It's it's nothing This is a tooth on a rope or something. It's nothing Oh Arcane Cataclysm Luminath and Zeench double down on the magic Dom era that we're in right now pre-order this Saturday So yeah, Jack as our resident Luminath expert, okay and player You excited to get your new book your new rules you excited for the changes coming to your army Yeah, like cuz I was really enjoying winning with Luminath before storm cam cast came out and You know, there's there's a little more play there now with this magic-heavy kind of meta. We're doing but I Like I don't know what they've shown on the website. I haven't looked at it a while So I don't know exactly what I can talk about from this box, but there is definitely some changes This is coming Saturday Yes, this Saturday we'll be able to see but I definitely excited to you know You want to be able to play your beautiful models? You know, you can always play them, but you want to sometimes if you're definitely a competitive player You want to be able to compete at a high level with your beautiful models? And I think I'm hoping that they'll definitely I'll be able to dust them off because they're you know The army I had commission painted You know, I'm definitely a commission painting brother here. So, you know, people need they got to eat They got to feed their kids. They need that get that money from someone And so I would definitely definitely love to get my Luminath out there and play him, but I am excited. Yes Yeah, I mean, I'm just excited that I'm really excited to see that new zinge book whenever it comes Like I'm that I will say I'm not excited to see zinge. If hopefully they get rid of destiny dice My honest answer is I don't care if they keep destiny dice just on just unclutter everything else Like destiny dice is a super powerful mechanic It could stay on its own and it would be like it could be fine The problem is then they stacked all this other nonsense on top of it, right? Like it's got the locus and it's got their agendas and it's got like all these things and I get what they were going for It just needs a complete like just swipe a bunch of stuff off the table. We get it. It's cheater the army Which is fine. Like I don't mean that in any insulting way. I mean that like that's literally its point It's cheating fate, right? That's the that's its thematic thing But if it gets the nergal treatment, I would be very excited Because I would feel like we really got a thematic zinge book I'd like to see I'd love to see these little doobers on the table here on this in this picture all the little your little archonite Guys actually feel like yeah, I want to I want to put some of those on the table That'd be exciting I'd like to feel like I want to put my regular zangor speaking of other people on the table again So, you know like just that kind of stuff that that's a tall order in the era of Galatian veterans probably Uh, where those things all die instantly to bounty hunters But if they have a good foundation of rules, we will eventually, you know We'll exit the the bounty hunter meta Before that, you know and still have the book. So I'm just looking for a good solid foundation. So we'll see Uh, they could not print anything in that lumeneth book that would make me care about that army. So I'm excited about that Uh, all right, what's next? All right, let's see. What's familiar with this warmer plus miniatures all this rumor engine Yes, yes my my friend. I got here. Okay read the number that's in the news, Tyler Because there's a number uh-huh I've months three days That is correct. The staff of this lady Uh, I think it's a lady. Um, this chaos caster the staff that that chaos icon skull Was the oldest existing rumor engine. So when we learned what it was it had been two years What I say is it eight months and three days? Is that right or five months and three days? Which one is a five months three days? There we go Uh, thank you to warboss kerrigan for that number. I did not do that calculation warboss kerrigan did that calculation keeper of the rumor engines um So this is awesome. I love this this uh, mibilore dark fang chaos sorceress And her her little friends, uh all the little Uh, um familiars familiars. Yes. They're back. Yeah, that's great Like fantastic. By the way, there are still two rumor engines from 2020 unsolved from 2020 like early pandemic Uh rumor engines still unsolved Uh, so i'm just saying mm-hmm like It was uh, it's wild how old some of these are there's quite a few from 2021 That's like not even a question Many many rumor engines more than a year old So they must be sitting on a ridiculous backlog, but this girl's great You can get her when you sub to warmer. Plus. I mean I won't But it's a nice offer. I'll probably try to get the model at some point just to paint it because I think she is awesome Um, but her and the cast terminator for 40k are the other ones I don't have a picture of him. He is incredible. It's based on a piece of art And it's a beautiful piece of art and it's beautiful. Yeah I'd love to know who painted the terminator. That's just insane I love this. Yeah, definitely. I'm picking this one. Um, I I get warhammer. Plus. I've never watched any of the shows I just do it for the the app the wash. I'll spend hours in my bed making lists and stuff Uh, but the top two familiars really hit me like right in the childhood Because I those two like I remember having both of those and just seeing them updated with like modern sculptors and modern painters It's really really cool Yeah, totally. I remember early aos when you would see this The old version of this on the table pretty frequently because there was lists that would run like the old castors with the cast familiars Um, quite consistently. So and then they obviously went away, but now they're back like all good things Uh, so yes, I agree little chaos warrior Is maybe my favorite thing of all time. Like I love little chaos warrior Um, he is adorable Uh, okay, what's next? All right, the future of war cry the head and article will come out this week on the roadmap so they confirmed that we're getting say three more little expansions here Every three months, I believe is what they said Each box set will have two new warbands completely excited about this Completely new and not just chaos Yeah, that's really cool. Like I think as of right now We've only got daughters of kane from that uh the set from not too a while ago and I have to say um So they sent us war cry. Usually we just cover age sigmar and occasionally they'll like send them some stuff to cover Uh, but I hadn't played war cry since it came out Sure And so we actually played war cry on the channel just to put more stuff out there and that game is a lot of fun Isn't it that it really is under worlds Yeah, I only look at under worlds or war cry stuff as what it can do to aos Like just tell me what the what are the rules right but after playing and I'm like what that was a lot of fun I would like to play that again Yeah, war cry is actually it's like and the newest sort of version that came with heart of gur Isn't really that big of a change from the last version They just like kind of fixed up some some little bit of wonky stuff rebalanced the warbands and like basically they added But it's like you could play it not having read the book and be mostly right You would just need to understand what the reactions are because it's the only new thing And It's like it's really good and it's I'm excited that we're getting new You know, we had kind of speculated when they released the map and showed all the different camps from all the different armies that maybe we would actually get Uh new boxes new war cry releases of all of these Different groups and now it seems like that might actually come to pass Uh, so what this tells me them being this confident to release this roadmap Um, yeah new warbands like non-chaos new terrain in every box to expand all that kind of stuff Um, this tells me that This is not stuck on a boat somewhere So there is like a warehouse in the uk where they have just all these boxes already waiting to go and they are confident They will be able to ship these out Um, because otherwise they would have never put out such a bold statement of like once a quarter from here on in here You go Um, so that's cool. It's good stuff Uh, I'm excited about it. And uh, I can't wait to see it. Let's quick quick round the horn. Guess sundered fate jack Who's in sundered fate? What two warbands I know there was a you know, they kind of had the people guessing um, and they did have the Um, serif on yeah, they had a little skanker do in there. Yeah, and so I don't know if I put serif I'll go we'll go serif on and Zinch there you go fate. Absolutely that we know zinch has a presence in there. They have a place on the map So all right, I'm buying that serif on and zinch. That's our first one tyler Blood hunt who's in the second one? Obviously corn didn't we get a little preview of a corn warband model? Uh, it was for um, for uh, underworlds But there's no reason they couldn't also have work, right? I mean just be fine Yeah All right, so corn and hunt hunt hunt hunt hunt hunt Bees of chaos that'd be kind of weird I don't know Corn Bees of Chaos corn and Bees of Chaos. There you go. The call has been made Uh, so so that would be our chaos on chaos box that right? Um, there you had an order on chaos. We're not we're not hitting we're not hitting any destruction ones here at all Okay, yeah, and I'll take nightmare quest uh nightmare quest to me that's I I want to see like uh cities and uh Soul Blight grave lords classic battle of you know undead humans versus the city humans, right? You get some witch hunt direction in there like you're on a quest Regular humans go on quests. That's a very common sort of thing and then nightmare just says yeah We're gonna do some soul blight or something like that, right? So there you go. Oh Inquisitors says by the way blood hunt should be corn and sylvaneth Okay hunt So which I would be fully supportive of Got cernothe out there. It was uh underworlds not uh, I mean they are hunters the cernoth do hunt That's a thing Uh, so yeah, there we go. I I can't wait to see what's in them. I'm excited for it We want it while we're talking about war cry. Do we want to talk about the little kerfuffle today? Uh Hit like for kerfuffles hit like if you're excited about this war cry expansion Just hit like if you're not I don't care. Please just hit the button. It helps other people find the show, but uh earlier today We got this like accident. They put out the the war the age of sigmar war scrolls for the rotmire creed and the chaos Legionnaires or whatever they're called. I don't remember something like that. I think that's right And the the quest had the the quest i'm reading this thing on the screen and the stats clearly had the printed stats of the centurion marshal or whatever the um the What is it the centaur guy and so you had this unit? Came for 110 points There was eight guys With four attacks each on threes threes neg one two damage and everybody was like, oh my god, everybody lost their mind immediately I saw it proliferating around all you know facebook and such When I read that and went oh cool. They put up the wrong war school No But you can't let a gw mistake go by without mockery. You have to Stand on it. I really uh, so james and I we split up I got the hushut guys and he had the uh the rotmire creed or whatever and looking at the rules I wish we got we got to switch because I think like a cheap battle line Those guys mean battle line and nergal. I think is really cool I agree. They also have a shooting attack like each one of those little doobers makes two shots And even though they can be on like nothing, I don't care I can be on they can be on fives and fives like they can be goblin shooters I'd still think they're worth it because that's just a lot of chances for disease dice Yeah, like in shooting disease there's a rule like if you're within three they get disease too like so I can spread out And those guys are really nice I'm looking at my hushut guys Why can't you do more? 125 points here. I think you ride jack that they definitely Have a spot Because plague bearer is 150 I mean that's your go-to battle line unless you're running black kings black lords, whatever But generally the base so yeah and battle line and bless sons. So it makes bless sons a little more interesting No, I think they're pretty cool Yeah, I agree. They were actually to stand out to me the actual legionnaires once they've printed like the real stats were like That's fine Medium infantry somebody needs to like pass the word up to the gw mother ship That medium infantry isn't a thing in aos. There's no such thing as medium infantry You're either chaff or elite infantry. There is no in between. Those are the two useful things Medium infantry is bin tear instantly like that doesn't have a role or a purpose Uh, okay, so anyways Uh, yeah, that's the news. I think we're good anything else So The cool premise coming up We've got nash con nova and of course the emerald city open Which is going to be next weekend if anybody's in the pacific northwest. I think there's a couple more tickets left There you go. Uh, where is that at in the pacific northwest jack? It is in uh, piyallup, which is like a suburb of like Tacoma. It's like Which is suburb of seattle. So there you go. It's a suburb of a suburb. But yes, it's in that in that greater metro area You can stay at my house. Just hit me up. I'm sure carpool down there. Excellent. Excellent. Yes Uh, excited for nash con this weekend. Hope to see some people down there. Tyler's gonna be though We're gonna have the whole war emmer weekly crew down there Uh, i'm sad. I can't make it up to the pacific for your event jack I would love to but uh, but there's there's not a way that that would happen Uh, but then I will be at nova the weekend after that. So it's it's gonna be a good time Uh, can't this is a very very busy time of uh of Of year I guess for me um My last thing i'll say as we transition from the news to hobby time is hey, hey listen everybody Okay, listen Is this just you and us now? All right If you're not following me on twitter You may want to do that Before friday. I'm not trying to like get twitter followers. I'm just saying starting friday There may be some things that go up on my twitter Maybe once a day Maybe that might point to things that are happening Very soon Things that you may be interested in Or may not I don't know but you won't know unless you follow me. So check it out It's out. We're hammer weekly. It's right up there in the corner. Look at it at any rate Uh, yeah, some things might be coming soon. Okay, so Let's talk hobby time Uh jack Hobby time what's on your uh, what's on your table buddy? What are you playing? I got a border, you know, that's Oh, wait, sorry, hold on. You're right. I got confused because I said pick of the week earlier Let's do pick of the week. I'm sorry everybody at thousand shows and I still can't get it right Jack what's your pick of the week you want to share with her? Um, so Being that we're gonna try to put out a lot more content We're trying to get outside of our comfort comfort zone and that means is painting as well So we're collaborating with a local northwest artist. Uh, she's paint chantress on uh, instagram names kelsie She's a great a great lovely woman. I've known her for a few years now Incredible painter and so what we did with you know, zinch on the horizon We got a wheel of kind of like destiny And so we put all kind of different ways to paint and we spun the wheel and I ended up getting oil paints Which is something I've never done before. I have a buddy of mine who's really gonna do it And so I am going to we're all painting a olgoid thomater So we're uh, and we're trying to you know, we've filmed a video We're in the middle painting but we're gonna like we want people to watch us as we uh, you know Put the content out and put the model out there and so uh, that is what's going on. So her it's her instagram It's uh paint paint chantress and uh, yeah, so check go check her out and she has a and she's not you know gw like You know agnostic or whatever she branches out and does all these cool things and yeah, and so I think shoe got Carebear So he has to paint olgoid thomaters like a care bear She got found in the woods and raised by elves Um, and uh, I think my buddy bear he got horror And then we got and yeah, it's going to be very interesting and just get us out of our comfort zone And uh, yeah, just show that we're you know, it's gonna be fun. So go check her out and check us out Very nice. Is that like that was like a combo hobby time slash pick of the week You really hit both both of those all at once smoothly. That was that was a pro strat there jack. I have to say Uh, tyler, what's your pick of the week? The week I've got two so one relevant to tonight's topic George Sutherland Howard He was inspired by a chat that rob had a while back We got a small gamer around a similar topic. We're covering tonight So George put together what he called the casuals handbook 2022 which I love that name And so it's his attempts at creating a handbook for more casual play Though we'll probably be referencing some of the ideas I wanted to look and see what was out there in the community so far And I came across that today. So yeah, thank you George for that awesome work We've got a link to it And then we mentioned events earlier. I wanted to mention takeover mars on twitter. He reached out to me. He's got a Invent going on in your neck of the woods vents. Yep Unswick, Ohio November 12th through 13th To list format 2000 points two days If you're in the area, Ohio, check it out. I think this might be his first event It is yeah, but it is okay. Nice. Yeah, he's very excited about it. I've been talking to him about it I think it's going to be a great event. He's a real good dude Um, I think he managed to pick the weekend. I literally have to go to a wedding. So that was real That was great So but that's fine such as life I suppose But I I I think it's going to be an awesome event and if people are around the Ohio area, you should check it out Uh, my pick of the week is very simple our good buddy. Hey, woe twitch Put out maybe the most important video in the history of of aos this week Uh, a quiet thoughtful meditation on the nature of there you go. We got a little hats off. Oh, yeah There it is. There it is. How much I like the woe switch. I went and made merch for him. It's pretty good Uh About the the the conflict the challenge between getting good and enjoying what you Uh, you want to play and things like that and what does it mean and uh, it's a very philosophical video I enjoyed it greatly. It's a link down below. Check it out As usual. Hey woe proves himself a master of content creation. All right Now Now Let's turn to hobby time. There we go. I was I was getting ahead of myself Uh, I'm used to saying all of those words once and since I had already accidentally said it Uh, yes. Oh, oh, don't worry adam. We talked about New work right? Yes um, okay so, uh Jack you already talked about some of your hobby. Is that what you're working on? Are you are you deep in oil paint territory? Or there's other things as well Not quite so the there is a so with emerald city open coming up next week I'm kind of doing some Last minute painting for that. Um, so I could put a poll out to ask like the the followers On twitter if I should play daughter's cane or corn for this because I kind of You know, you only have so much like bandwidth And so with the you know, kind of the relaunch of the channel that's been my focus Like competitive stuff in tournaments is just it's just on the background. I'm not even thinking about it But uh, this is the club. I'm part of victoria secret We're putting this on so I kind of have to get in on it And so I was going to be corn or daughter's cane and corn One ran away with it But and I was painting up my corn and I got a game in with my daughters and I was like, but I really want to play this I really whatever whatever it is the craith does When especially as a slaughter can fighting it on a four up that is that is my love language Chuck morris one another one. He's one another one over the cult of craith There is there's splitting attacks. There's there's gambling is so much depends on me getting this dice roll And whatever that is I like and so I end up going into the craith and so I uh, you know Like my shout out to my boy tyler hit hit on my commission painter The paint smithy sent him with some sister's slaughter and a few gladiatrix's But you know, I do it is a competitive tournament. So I am uh painting up this guy Here And uh, thank you for it to brint um, even though he backed away from the channel He asked him, hey, you still got that conspin sitting on your desk that you got from the channel Let me get that back real quick And he said it was too good for him anyway So I'm That's a great it's too good for him. Yeah, he's got to get rid of that thing. Okay Very nice tyler What do you've been doing buddy? It's time in the history of the show. I can actually answer. I'm just going straight into the question because I already know you actually have Painting stuff now. You're just you're in the mix Yeah, jack. It's purple. We have you on first time painting Our whole commission history, you know Two jack up painted two plague drones I've seen the pictures. They look great I just you know, just being nice. You can tell me they look like crap. It's fine They look great tyler and and here's the thing They were always going to be great because all painted models are better than unpainted models. See how easy that is That's true. Yeah, it's that easy But you're you're you're mixing up the slap chop. You're getting it moving the contrast has changed your life Jesus I'm not gonna say but this stuff is wild like what you can do with contrast paints I didn't appreciate how easy it is To at least have your stuff not look terrible. That's that's the bar don't look terrible No, I'm I'm glad we finally wore you down. It only took seven years but But I am a determined person tyler as you've seen. I never I never gave up hope. Okay I always believed And you know, I'm like morpheus now and I watched you jump across that building and it's like, what is he doing? He's beginning to believe So there you go My hobby time. All right jack. I'm gonna ask you a question. Do you want to be what do you want first? Cool or uncomfortable? What what what should I share? Cool? Cool. Okay. So I have two big guys I haven't started on yet. They're just primed up But here's the first one This is one of my new vermin lords. This is from clay beast creations. This is my new vermin lord deceiver Look at this guy. This dude awesome. Just leaping out of there. He's got another big cloak that I had to leave off Very cool. All right. That's fantastic Such an incredible sculpt. Yeah, he did it. It's so it's so much fun So I don't know exactly what I'm gonna do with him yet, but I got some time to Think about it. So now that we've all seen the cool guy Uh, let's go ahead and uh, I'll be uncomfortable because my other vermin lord is this lady right here Uh, so You know, you can all just there it is. I mean, I'm I think offered without any commentary Uh, this is my new warps here by the way for a size comparison here. Just let's let's go ahead and show this That's how big he is compared to her. Like she's a she's a big lady. Okay That's not even more friendly though. I've Oh, I mean, she's got the little ball from the warps here. So I think we're good. That's that's all that's important We're in uh, so, you know, she's gonna make you feel all kinds of ways and question things you didn't You didn't want ever question Hey, here's what I'll say She's the least She's the least sexy one of the whole bunch because there's a whole range Of those I chose the the least Uh, so there we go Uh, but yes, those two and then I had mentioned it last week on the show much less exciting But I finished up my terrain that I was working on. So there you go. Oh, that's a fun piece of sci-fi terrain So yeah, just good a little quick weathering and stuff. Yeah fun piece. This is just something Shouldn't turn away from the mic and talk. Um, that was just something fun to You know sort of like when you didn't have anything else when I had a few moments because I've had to make something Like five videos since I since last week show or something like that So it's been a it's been a very busy weekend. Uh, but anyways, so yes, I've got my My two rats who will sit here and wait for me as I'll be on the road for like 16 days or something and so I won't have any chance to paint Either of these beautiful rats, but they'll they'll be waiting for me when I get back Okay, I'm glad to see so many other people are getting uncomfortable in the chat too. Uh, that's great Uh Hit like if the rat lady makes you a little uncomfortable and question things. That's what I'll say. Um, okay Uh With that Let's talk about some, uh, some starter stuff. Shall we let's get into it Okay By the way as I'm going over and bringing up this presentation What I talked about before and following me if you don't want to follow on twitter Because you know like twitter because twitter is a cesspool. That's fine. My twitter is great It's all just people who share models, but Uh, I don't mean like my personal twitter. I mean like the one I'm looking at when I scroll I never see anything except people sharing models But you can also follow me on instagram same things will be things will also be shared there So I'm just saying Things things are coming. Okay Simplifying aos Uh, the starter battle pack I'm just gonna jump in here to the first page I'm gonna lay down some principles and I want I want you gentlemen to check me and tell me if you think I'm right. Okay I think aos 3.0 is the best edition of aos so far. Let's just pause there. Do we agree with that statement? Yes Okay at that That feels uh It feels just true like I've had So much fun playing in this edition. It feels more balanced better overall It feels like you've got more options in a lot of ways Um, the battle tomes are just great like every 3.0 battle tone for the most part that they've released has felt better It's not that there hasn't been some issues that needed to be like hammered in but It's been a lot of great battle tomes Real high watermarks in the history of aos and the battle plans we've seen thus far are generally pretty great Okay So all that's true And There seems to be one glaring downside though And that's complexity Jack, where are you at on the overall complexity of 3.0? Um, it is more complex than uh, it's ever been and like I remember watching an episode where you talked about this Then like this how all games goes and there's a reset and that kind of stuck with me Um, and this also like third edition and you brought up shoe earlier It's one of those things be careful what you wish for because I remember like having a conversation He's like, why am I standing in this spot? Why? Why I don't get it. There's got to be a reason why I'm standing here And now we're adding more complexities and giving people reasons and it's not just stand on this point win the game right and like but The ending that there is it's like because I've tried to teach a couple new new people One coming back after a long absence and it's just like drinking from a fire hose There's so much information being spread out. You know, I'm just like, oh, wow Because I'm like, oh, oh, let's go back. I gotta you got to pick a battle tactic. What's what's that? I'm like, oh, here's heroic actions and these are interactions where we wanted Because sometimes if you got double turn you just like, all right, I'll be back Roma dies for right but now there's a constant boom and boom and so this is a Like for I think for players who really play a lot This is not a problem. Because my whole thing was like I get reps in that's what I do And I have a good memory and I get reps in that's how I am able to win the tournaments occasionally Because that's know what your stuff does know what your stuff does and but if you don't get to play a lot This can be very daunting Yep Yep, I that's I think you nailed it exactly And Tyler, I know you and I have spoken about this but I want to throw the next point at you before I have you comment which is The complexity means experienced players and those who value complexity Have the play experience that a lot of them have always wanted, right? Like this is what they've been wanting to drive at like there is and those are two separate cohorts of people, by the way, right? Like there's a set of tournament players who value their ability to Display their skill and intelligence through the execution of their strategy in the game And they certainly have a lot of chances to do that through the interactions on offer And then there is a segment of people who value complexity just for complexity Okay, and I'm not judging that I'm not making a normative claim as to that's being good or bad It simply is the case that some people Like complexity like there are people who play battle tech Okay, these people exist there are people who value complexity simply for valuing complexity All right, that's my favorite example of this over the years was I remember a series of tweets from our good friend Ben studio earthswood or he laid out all of The details that he went into with lumineff and it was just pure insanity and then he was like I he was just in heaven I don't know if he still feels that way, but I just thought like oh, that's That's the player type like that's the archetype right there It's funny because I think he swung all the way around to the other side Okay, yeah, would since he started uh since he started like Uh leading his after school thing and playing with kids. I think it like I think now he's he's back over on the other side Uh, Ben Benjamin Yeah, yes, Benjamin seven. Yeah Yes, uh interesting. Yeah Um, I by the way, I knew as soon as I threw out like the battle tech bait. I was going to get people to comment immediately like I I love the like immediately it's it's so easy chum in the water to get the sharks coming out Um, look, I love battle tech. I love mech warrior. I love the whole universe in the history of it And I like I could I could just flip this over and do an entire battle tech show Okay, but it is a game that values complexity often for complexity's sake Like if you ever played the actual mech warrior role playing game derivative of that Oh, yeah, like that is a game that loves lots of lots of nuanced complexity Um, but anyways, um, I mean I've been playing I've played battle tech off and on since 1994 So yeah, I mean I've been around it for a while, but the anyways the point is is that like Newer players those learning the game and those wanting a simpler experience are going to be found wanting Right, that's the challenge There's just like like jack you mentioned having a new player play the game Right, you know trying to take people into it and I'll tell you if you try to actually show them the game as it exists now I think their their brain just melts out of their ears a little bit Right like if you try to open up the general's handbook and be like, wait, let's play the current season of this game in match play Right. Oh boy Oh boy Did this a month ago with one of our new guys? Yeah, and I had I scaled a lot of things back I just kind of made it up on the fly like all right. We're gonna skip this going to skip this going to skip this Even then he was still pretty overwhelmed By by the game and just how much is going on So yeah, and this has been the case jack. My experience has been the exact same every single new it's a chore It feels like way too much of a chore Try to help new players. I don't want them to not play the game Right because this is like this has a chance for them saying. Oh, never mind. This isn't for me And it's like, oh, no, but it can be if you if you, you know, if you You know get the taste for it like, you know, it's like alcohol eventually you'll like it Great analogy and like the problem here in my mind is I completely agree with what you just said jack But at the same time, I think then we don't I don't want to make this just a new player thing Like that is correct but There's also just a cohort of people Who just want to play the Stupid game like in a simple form Right who just want to like put their models down and play the big army game And and and have fun with it without needing to worry about a hundred different interactions and picadillos and timing based things and and stuff like that you know Uh, I mean uncle Adams in the chat and he said, you know, he played a os 1.0 some in 2.0 He couldn't play 3.0, right like Adam likes a good, you know, like straightforward simple experience not and i'm not in any way bashing that that's exactly Uh, what the game really used to have on offer in the beginning. It's not that anymore Right And I think that's a problem Right I mean, am I crazy? This is a problem because if we don't bring in new blood And or keep people who want that simple experience playing We will just bleed people and end up like warhammer fantasy where it got so up its own butt With complexity and the rules nuance to answer the tournament people. Nobody wanted to play it anymore Yeah, that's all I'm gonna be there. We've we've lost some players who used to play 2.0 And they stopped because of the complexity like it just it became too much for them. They you know They were basically I can tell you like to uh, like brint like we played we recorded one and it was just Like and then not to get he had other reasons why but he's like, uh, I can't You know, there's too much resources for me to do that and I'm trying I'm holding on to shoe kicking and screaming Like no, no, you'll like it The rules are but it's just like and I'm seeing people fall to the wayside, you know There was a lot of people joining But it's like new people are coming and I'm we're losing people as well But I think that might be like always in all games life cycles. There's always gonna be some bleed You have to assume some people fall out of the game. That's always gonna happen Uh, I think that the industry average I have no idea on gw's numbers and they never really they never release such a thing But I'm pretty sure the industry average is one in five Basically like one in five current players the game on january 1st of that year will not be players at the end of that year Or something like that Um, however you measure that, um, or will not have bought anything for the game in that year You know, there's different there's different methods of measurement as to what a player of the game is Fortunately, I think we can solve this problem Okay, this is a completely solvable problem The way we're going to solve this is through battle packs because 3.0 one of the best things it did was introduce battle packs When you open up the core rules There's a battle pack and it says this is how you play you use these sets of rules You don't use these so on and so forth. You open up the ghb That's a specific battle pack like the reason we're in ger and using the ger related Stuff and tactics and all of those things is because that's the battle pack If you go play season of war of thondia out of the narrative book That's a different battle pack. It has its own tactics and special rules and battle plans and all that kind of stuff, right? So the question is I'm gonna put her over here because she's kind of in my way. She's so big This got creeped out again She's watching you. She's watching you. Um So we can make a new battle pack that's just like The simple experience the starter experience the casual experience the I don't care. We can call it whatever. I don't want to get bogged down in the name Right be it it matters What you call it, but I don't care at this point. That's that's later That's for the branding and marketing people to figure out, right? We're just i'm concerned with what it's functionally doing And the point is they don't have this like this doesn't seem they do this with like a world of warcraft Where they they made the stripped down version what they call it classic You know aos 3.0 classic or vanilla. Yeah, they rolled it back to uh They rolled it back to to basically original I mean there was some very minor tweaks they made on it a lot of like bug fixes and stuff They didn't they didn't reinstall bugs that were in the original, but yeah That would have been truly funny Um, you're like running around and get stuck in the world somewhere because they reinstalled the pathing fix that they had put in No, the patching the pathing bug. All right Pitch battle. Here we go. Let's break into this. Okay Uh Okay A battle pack Tells you how you play a pitched battle and my argument is most people Want to play pitched battles that doesn't mean matched play It means a pitched battle and the reason I say that is because Most people playing a narrative game is a lot of extra work Like I like narrative games. They're fun, but there are a lot of extra work You know, I've watched a lot of jack you when you guys did your your narrative campaign right Sort of toward the end of 2.0 And like there's a lot of extra rules and and the earlier when you did back at the beginning of 2.0 There's a lot of extra like rules and things you're tracking and stuff. You're you're sort of monitoring, right? So that's perfectly fine, but that's also for an expert who's interested in a different type of thing It's complexity of a different flavor Yeah, I was noticing that with like path to glory. There's so much bookkeeping In there. It's not just like all right armies don't know. So it is more complex in a different way, but in But like for people who are into it They're fine with just like i'm fine with learning all the battle attacks and stuff because i'm really into this If they're really into that narrative, they don't see it as a chore or something that they have to slog through This is what you know, they like it. Yep. Yep. So here's my ideas Here's here's where I think we start and again, there is a link down there to if you want another take on this Then the as as mentioned the casual battle pack, which will be referencing regularly That link is in the description for the imager album that contains everything There's their take is different than ours. I wasn't I wrote this before I had read that But there's a lot of good ideas in there and I think you could use this kind of stuff So points limits, let's just keep the existing points limits, but we're going to add a 1500 point level from the core book Okay I don't think the game actually works below a thousand points That's a statement I don't know jack. What do you think about that? Um, I've only done it with path to glory and like there will be some things where it's just boom games over Because you had a really powerful thing that can fit there. You know, and so I agree with you Yeah, I played many great thousand point games. I think at a thousand points 1500 points the game sings No problem at all Okay, I think you can't I think that is the actual floor of age of sigmar where you actually have a Army on the table like table sizes anything if you're still playing on that big table with less than a thousand points It just it's it's cavernous. It's too much Just people running around the whole time like in turn 40 your guy finally got there Okay, uh all right, so So we're gonna we're gonna but we're gonna keep this straightforward the thousand points is also not that many It's not that hard to build up that force like if we want to keep the starter people in mind A thousand points is effectively what often comes in those new Vanguard boxes or whatever that they're putting out like the replacement for the starter boxes So that feels pretty on point because those are very gettable paintable boxes The nergal vanguard that they put out was was great wonderful starter force Okay Like right around 900. Yeah Yep, I think if you I think like if you get that and then like the hair old or something You're basically at a thousand or whatever it was. It was somewhere like that. There was some Trick to get right there or maybe the new rottmeyer creed guys Okay All right Next up we pick our army So all units are from the same faction allies are not allowed like we're not gonna explain allies We're not worrying about it. We're just jettison those aside pick your army Okay, it has all things Are from this army open your book Find the units you like write them down Done don't open other books There's no incarnates that should go without saying but that is getting jettisoned into the sun obviously No mercenaries no none of that right it's all units come from your book What about war masters play the book? What's that? Oh, like what about all this war like archion and the gash Oh, no, just keep them out of here for now. Like unless they're in that book If you open slaves at arkeons, you see archion cool. You can play it right if it's in the book Then it's fine. Like it's got to be from that book We're just gonna keep it simple one thing that Uh the fellow uh, george did with his casuals handbook He added a what he called massive models line Where he had a point size limit on And a number like zero to one asset models and a mass model was defined as 400 points or more Yeah, or his casual play. I saw that. I don't know if that's that again. So he added some things in Okay, that I'm not sure I would add in because he was like adding extra rules on top I get why he was doing it because he was trying to make sure that it wasn't a blowout one way or another Because like one person takes the gash and the other person and and like two units of dire wool You know, whatever something silly like that So I I get it, but that's just I'm not I'm not adding more rules Okay, we're cutting that's fair. Yeah, we're cutting here Okay Andrew littleson said what about cities of sigmar where the storm keeps if you have coalition I said no allies if you have coalition and it's printed in your book I mean sure I wouldn't recommend that army for a new player But if it's like directly coalition where it says you can take that thing Um, and it's sort of a consistent type of how you play Let's say sure you can take coalition units, but there's no allies allies are different than coalition And allies have all sorts of weird rules where they don't count as this and yada yada yada It just creates confusion Okay, um, I would never hand anybody cities as a starter army. It is a is the opposite of a starter army Here you go. Here's your army. It's seven completely different armies You can pull from four other different armies if you want to five other different armies if you want to Um, the sculpts are all from 1999. So I guess go have fun with that Just like no Hopefully you're not a completionist because you're uh, I think you're making counts And and by the way, there are 80 units in this book you get a pick from like no, no, no, no, no, no Right. Yeah, exactly um the So like yeah coalition's fine, whatever um But like we're not doing allies Battlefield roles as standard. I feel like that is a fundamental thing in the game that we can keep It's not that heavy of a pressure and it teaches people things like leaders and be you know behemoths and Battle line units that kind of stuff. Sure It's fine Okay Like those are we're using the table. We're going to keep those things Um, I would alter the table to say like allied units would just be struck or just say zero Right. I would alter the table to it to just say zero Uh, also hay was said no allies mercs or coalition games strictly improved Which I tend to agree with outside of the coalition for things like cities where it's so So integral um Most of the new chaos armies Where they have that tyrant type of thing going on Are pretty nice and that you don't really need them Okay No battalions battalions gone. That's not a thing we're doing. We don't need those Okay, like you took did you take units? Did you spend your points? Good job Gj You know, I like I watch my like some people in my group are pretty casual and they'll show up to play And they'll have their army filled out and I'll be like, okay cool. What what battalions did you take and they'll be like crap Yeah, yeah, I've watched a lot of new players. Yeah, right lists that are incorrect Played just totally wrong. Yeah, because they can't figure out how to do the Italians No, it's it's not beginner friendly in a lot of ways. What about universal enhancements? Maybe that's later. That's later. That's going to be a thing we talk about later. Okay No endless spells. No, no invocations. Get out of here. Get out of here with this stuff We're not we're not doing that you play with units that are that are there pick the units No endless spells. No invocations. No, none of this crap. We're not worrying about it at the moment. That's out of here Maybe eventually we could work that back in. I don't know but right now. Nope We don't need it. No purple sun No cogs No, none of this Get it out of here. Okay Yeah, I will uh the one thing I I like about Extra battalions when I'm teaching somebody new is because they get more items to mess around with Oh, you can take this item you take this and now you can uh, you know, it's you know, it's cool Because like oh, I get to play with more toys, but it is well this you need this unit to require to this unit And so that can be daunting. So you can always be like, all right, you can get extra item Sure, absolutely Maybe we just write into this starter battle pack. Everybody gets one bonus artifact We could do that that could be a thing we do Right like We're in charge of the rules here. We can write anything. Okay In fact, here, I'm gonna do it right now. You ready? Everyone gets one bonus enhancement. I'm not even gonna write artifact. I'm gonna write enhancement. Okay I I wish I could jettison the entire enhancement section, but since it's in the core book. I can't really Uh do much with that. So I've got I'm saddled with what I am saddled with Explaining enhancements alone to people is such a big pain in the tucus Uh, it's it's like Okay So there we go. Everyone gets one bonus enhancement Do we want to make that an artifact alone or do we just want to say enhancement? I say enhancement. What do you feel jack? Um artifact, okay, tyler you're the deciding vote Ah goodness Artifacts only is interesting. Yeah, that's done It's artifact. I like one bonus artifact simplicity. Yeah, you get one bonus shiny toy less to teach him. I agree. That's the right choice jack You were right Okay, uh, you fill out your army roster is normal and here's where we come to maybe the first Maybe the first truly controversial thing I'm keeping grand strategies Okay now I'm using the core book grand strategies only I'm gonna flip to the next page. Uh, where do I have those? There we are I'm gonna flip to my grand strategies page The three grand strategies in the core roles Are sever the head Okay, which you complete this grand strategy if there are no heroes from your opponent starting army on the battlefield vendetta Uh Your enemy's general is slain and yours general is not slain and hold the line You complete this grand strategy if there are any battle line units from your starting army on the battlefield Okay, so those three simple concepts to understand that work with the base things kill all their heroes Kill their general but keep your general alive or keep some of your battle line alive Okay Simple and grand strategies the reason I decided to keep them is because they're not a thing You're really thinking about a lot during the game where they're making decision points Right, like you made the choice once during list building You write it down and it gives them kind of a fun secondary Thing to go for and to do and to win right if they start losing on points They can be like, okay. Well, I'm gonna, you know, they they still have something they can drive at You understand what I mean. They can be like, oh, well, I'll still kill your general and keep mine alive Right, you put them in you make the decision at list building you check it at the end of the game Okay In my mind the grand strats are closer to schemes, which you know, I always loved Right. Oh, yeah, totally. Yeah, there there's games. Yeah, George. George is in the chat Thank you for your awesome work. We've been I don't know if you caught it earlier, man We've been talking about your pack. It's it's really intriguing. So Yes, we've we've been discussing it Yep, we're gonna talk about more things to cut and George. Don't worry. We'll get to uh to triumphs for sure Yeah But yeah, to me I liked keeping grand strats and just keeping these three simple ones from the core rules They deal with the absolute fundamentals. There's nothing tricky about them or weird It's so easy to grasp kill all those dudes Don't lose all your dudes kill the guy in charge. Your guy's still alive, right? Like Yeah I mean competitively, obviously hold the line was one of the go-tos if not the number one go to and to throughout 2.0 It probably is a little different. I mean, it's still going to be highly valuable But just in terms of again, I mean, this is casual Beginner oriented. So it's probably not as big of a deal and there's going to be fewer heroes in the battlefield all is equal So, yeah, some of the head and vended are probably going to be a little more viable as well Yeah, it's probably fine. I mean that one does if they just got too bad line. You kill the bad line You get grand strat Maybe that one is more like it's 60 40 or 70 30 in terms of the ones that's chosen and I could see that one being the most popular but Yeah, three seems the right number though. I don't like the idea of adding a fourth or fifth. I don't think we're getting a lot Yeah, just just stick with three just stick with three Three is the perfect number of choices small medium large. That's what I want. I don't need other things going on here Okay, I don't need to biggie size it All right. I just need small medium large. That's it. I'm good. Okay That's on the whole the yeah, I was gonna say on the whole the line. I do like no place for the week Which is our new grand strategy Where it is you have to kill all of the enemy battle line. Yeah That's a little more challenging than keep your battle line alive So Maybe there's something to be said for that one over hold the line, but yeah, these are probably good enough Um, yes, absolutely George we linked yours down below and it's it's a great resource as well and believe me We're gonna be stealing wholesale from you later Okay Additional things battle tactics those are out those are gone. Yeah into the sea. Yes That's number one on the list. Yeah Get rid of Like jack how many times have you been playing you a very experienced player? Okay, who is who is actually a tournament winner? Rerolling ones jack And how many times have you gotten into your hero phase and been like oh hold on. I need to pick my battle Yeah, it is a thing that takes me like since there's been this new jhb that I haven't had a ton of games in It's still the the biggest thing. I'm like, okay. What are the new ones? Or what are the ones from my book? It is the a thing as an experienced player that I'm still Taking time to learn and so that is the biggest thing we're Trying to walk from somebody through a new game And you know, even if they're on the channel and just like we'll do it off-camera. I'm like, okay These are the ones you can do You know, we'll go this is a good one to start with and it's just you can see the Joy drain from their faces as you're trying to write It's like you like I have to do this every turn like yeah And they're like in there I do like that. They're hard to get Whereas before it was just automatic now. It's just like ooh Maybe if I do this and I give this charge and I roll a 10 I might be able to do this and so but that does take time And so I agree for this get it out more hammer basic get it out of here The analysis this is specifically the thing that caused analysis paralysis for shoe in the battle report And I will say when I played it like holy Wars or whatever in the spring And we didn't have but he didn't Steve doesn't use battle tactics and I was like, oh my god This game is so much less stressful now Like I'm just playing the game. It's great um So battle tactics Yeah, out of here. Sorry. You're not you're not you're not making the cut realm rules No such thing. I don't know who you are never a new phone who dis okay like that's not happening We're not worrying about we're not in gir you can be wherever the heck you want We the battlefield of your imagination is where we are. Okay Like no Galatian veterans. No Any of that crap. It's all gone okay Jettison mysterious terrain gone. We're jettisoning that too. Okay, like I'm not not rolling for terrain And labeling it arcane and inspiring and all that and giving people six more dumb things They've got to remember for extremely minimal benefits unless I happen to roll a table of all arcane Okay, that's yeah, it's it's adding obviously I think the half inch Like in the combat phase for veteran thing. I think that does make the game speed up a little more Player because you're trying to explain piling. All right. You have to stack like stick next to two Yeah, the guys in the back. They're not going to be able to fight And so I do like that roll, but again trim it down, you know, take it out there because we're losing No, it's okay I like where your head's at jack because later we're going to get to the what should we are there? Is there anything we should drop in here? Okay, it's not adding rules necessarily, but it is making the words might be worth it Where it's going to smooth the game out and I agree with you the one thing jack That I looked at and I was like, I hate this that I have to cut this thing Is the fight within a half inch thing Fertilation mentions because it does make the game legitimately faster Right. It's just nice Okay Ben says going to say obviously we've had a lot of discussion about the terrain keywords Defensible obscuring and impassable, of course Tons of discussion about how the terrain system has been arguably the weakest part of 3.0 Is adding rules sort of or replacing rules? Is that too much? Or this are we trying to clean up the terrain system? and all of its wonkiness where All just all the things you know about that are wonky with it. It's tough. It's a tough. It's a tough discussion Let's save it. Let's come back. Okay. Let's lay down the baseline and then we'll come back to it Um faction terrain can be used as normal I don't want to like shut people out of their faction terrain like if you get your your little ogre Cauldron if you get your little slinish pizza cutter sure knock yourself out, right? Um, that's that's what I'm never gonna call the pizza cutter. That's what it is Just roll that bad boy out there. Just cut you out a slice while you're in the middle of the game. Yeah It even comes separate. That's what I love about it. Like it doesn't have to seat into that thing So you just pop it right out I can't unsee it Get some of that fresh pepperoni and you're good to go. All right Um, alternate first was the rat lady and now it's a pizza cutter. It's stuck in my brain now. It's an interesting dream Uh, and then alternating deployment is used to set up units. The player that finishes deploying first has priority Easy, okay. There's no battalions. Remember so it's just how many units did you put in your army? Right, how many drops are you? I'm nine. So the concept of drops is still here, right of deployment Um, I think it is a useful thing to understand. It shows up in basically all of the matched play stuff Uh, so I think it stays Because priority and the choosing of priority is actually a really important thing To learn and I'm looking at like what are the truly foundational elements of the game versus What's the extra flash on top that doesn't actually need to be there? Right, I think this is the perfect as because this is like a stepping stone To get to Up here and so that's perfect where it's like we're going to spoon feed you some stuff Like this is still you need to learn it But this is so you're not just I'm not I don't want to play this because it's too much Right It's very easy to explain to you're going to set down a unit Then I'm going to set down a unit and then you're going to set down a unit I'm going to set down a unit and whichever one of us finishes first gets to decide who takes the first turn That's it It is probably the toughest thing I kept in here because I know drops can be confusing as a sort of Overall concept, but really it doesn't have to be about drops. It's just you go I go we're going to roll to see who sets one down first and then we're going to go back and forth Until we're done because there's no unified no nonsense. It's just we go back and forth until we're done, right? Okay, uh All right Um cool So that's the thing i'm jenna said first to finish deploy gets priority is weird when you don't have any mechanism to affect your number of drops Beyond changing your armies. It seems like it locks certain armies out of turn one priority Maybe most armies can run from, you know x number of drops to y number of drops Like there's usually a quite a quite a range there of choices you have Based on how many units you're putting in your army So I don't I don't think it's locking out too many most people will just exist in like Eight to twelve that's what will end up happening because most armies bar unified have eight to twelve units That's just how it ends up working Yeah, there's maybe an argument I mean, I don't like the idea of changing such a core element that we've had always with a game But maybe an argument for a plus one If you have lord at at this level of the game, but yeah, it's different And this is one of those things I want to get them set up because this has to like exactly I want to also like You know say this is still a version of the normal game. I'm not writing Yeah, exactly, right You know, you don't want to change core roles like like that exactly unless you have to right This is part of a os so love it or hate it. It is part of the game I think it's it was like the most complex thing, but I think it's worth keeping All right, we talked about grand strats already and we all said are there I you know, I had the question here of any other grand strats to include um You mentioned tyler, uh Place for the week has maybe swap No place for the week. It's a little more a little more challenging line now. My only push back on you there tyler. Okay is Hold the line is purely defensive keep your stuff alive Vendetta is kill and keep something alive and seven ahead is completely kill So it's actually rather nice that that spread is nice if you think about it. It's like all kill all protect kill protect Yeah, you could add again I feel like we still want to stick with three. I mean, maybe you could do four, but three three is nice We don't have a Positioning based one, right? Like defend what's ours or take what's theirs Take what's theirs is the go-to grand strategy competitive play right now Yep So you maybe you could do take what's theirs or something like it to get a positioning one in there rather than just Survive and kill oriented, right? If you want to have the three elements positioning survive kill Uh Yeah, the the answer, uh, let me answer Mindy real quick Mindy that the answer is whoever finishes first So whoever makes the roll and wins the roll to put down their first unit Then whoever started dropping first if you both had eight would would finish first, right? Uh, exactly what Heywood just explained. Okay Cool and I see lots of people with other concepts about the the turn starting thing It's the most controversial thing. You could do 10 different solutions for it. This was mine Okay, um, but I can see people wanting a roll type thing or whatever And I'm not going to tell you you're wrong Right, um, I'm just going to tell you that you're it's going to set people up with weird expectations If they do decide like hey, I played this a lot I want to try this this more Because assumingly the other battle packs still exist like if they decide they want to go to the ghp battle pack That's going to be quite a shock for them, right? So that's the only thing that I was uh, That I was concerned with um So and and it doesn't feel like it's that big of a deal Like it's not putting them on the back foot to any great degree Especially in a teaching game like if they happen to have priority or not It's not going to be the end of the world Okay, what's my assumption? Other cuts All right, here we go. Let's talk about it. Here's where we get into the other stuff to cut uh All right Heroic actions jack are they staying are they going? I think they stay because I do think you if we're losing battle tactics um Like think heroic actions it lets you if they're fun things that you can do interact with both hero phases and say like If so if you don't have a wizard you can't teach them that a you can dispel and unbind Give them away because we do one who's like they need to learn people need to learn the game So I would keep those or maybe get rid of some of them Like maybe you don't use finest hour and like so you're allowed to use uh, you know The corrupt willpower try to get a command points because you need you need that resource to be able to do cool things And so I actually do like heroic actions Yeah, okay. Yeah, that's so good. Tyler, what'd you take a hard agree hard agree 100% Yeah, I big big. I do I do like them. I know it's it's a little more complexity. I think they're fun Interesting gives you something to do in the hero phase every every hero phase you've got something to do right off the bat And yeah, no, uh Check summed it up really well So the interesting thing about this kind of stuff to me and I mentioned this to you Tyler in a call Was if we did a survey and maybe we'll do this survey in the future at some point If we did a survey where I simply put out the questions Let's let's say I do a survey in the future and the survey says here's the question. Please rate Uh heroic actions on the scale below And the scale below was a five point scale going from mostly unfavorable to mostly favorable or something like that, right? Or whatever So one you really hate it two you mildly hate it three you're neutral four you're You somewhat like it five you really like it. Okay, so a standard sentiment analysis five sweep, right? If I did that individually for all of these elements even including things like battle tactics and everything else We've talked about it individually. My guess is people would be like, yeah, I like that I bet almost all of these would be above water Right But if you put them all it's like rocks in a river you can throw a rock in a river Every day for quite a while and not change the the river But eventually you throw enough rocks you dam the river Okay So it's it's tough And So here's so here's the next question, right? With heroic actions, are we keeping all four? Or are we Pairing it down Is there like are we keeping a smaller list like do they have the heroic action of Maybe they can roll for a command point and that's it Or they get the command point and the self-heal outside of combat and that's it or something like that Or do we keep all four? Jack what you take I was I was thinking about oh, maybe you can use finest hour, but that's also pretty cool because it is pretty cool Like it feels yeah And I was like, well, you know, you know willpower but like I think teaching somebody Uh about unbinding is crucial and dispelling is crucial in the game too. So I keep that one Healing is nice, but I think that would be on the chopping block Uh, if uh, if I was to but I would rather keep all four Okay, I'm seeing mostly support for heroic actions for keeping them all and people saying yeah all or nothing Uh, so you know what we're gonna say here. We keep it Now I will say one of the things george you mentioned was if it's in the free core rules It should be assumed now that being said that isn't necessarily have to be true um Like the battle packs will frequently modify the core rules Okay, and we'll change basic expectations. So like a battle pack can do any of this Right, the question is are we going to change things so much? Like the technology what a battle pack can do could say anything Right, it can literally say anything it can say in this battle pack. You can't take you can't take Behemoths it's not a thing Right Like it could do that. That's a perfectly valid thing about you could write a rule into a battle pack If it can change the way attacks happen in the core rules, which is what our current battle pack does, right? It says no, no, no, no, no, you know all that weapon range stuff We taught you earlier and who's eligible to make attacks forget all that Jettison that throw that in the seat instead. You're doing this other thing Right, that's a heck of a change So we can do whatever we want the question is are we actually doing something positive, which is the idea and all of these things have Good and bad to them the question is not is there any good? Yeah, all of these things have good The question is is there more bad than good when we're when our goal When our primary purpose Is to keep the game simple moving efficient easy to teach to new people and low complexity Right. Are we getting more good than bad? That's the litmus test Right Okay, so we keep them. I agree with you. I think heroic actions are actually pretty awesome. They're limited to one hero can do them It's a pretty reasonable thing to do and it does like if you get rid of this somebody playing like Sons of Amot Like doesn't have a hero face most of the time. Yeah, exactly. That's they just do nothing Correct And Vince that's one reason why like number one I feel there's a difference between heroic actions and monstrous rampage is the timing right where Monstrous rampage has a little more of an awkward timing in my opinion for newer players where it's at the end of the charge phase And then you're rolling into the combat phase. Yeah, I mean I so Yeah, it'd be interesting to keep them in there, but I personally feel like you probably could set that on the sideline And you'd be fine Well, that's the next question buddy. Okay. Are we keeping monstrous rampages? That's that's literally the next one on my list I Had lean toward I mean I can see the point. It's in the core roles. You're jettisoning it Is that the right call? I think yeah Go ahead Oh for me This is we like maybe getting rid of one because some monsters rampages are on people's war scroll And I want them to be able to use their cool stuff And I do think roar stops people from doing cool things And I want people to be able to like do awesome stuff and get excited about the game So if you were my thing, oh man, I can't do the thing in the combat phase Which my army can do which gives me all buffed up and now I'm Superman And so I would give it more I'd still keep I think you know destroying somebody's terrain piece That's going to get somebody excited keep that in there Uh and stomp, you know always just just doing you know d3 mortal wounds Probably like when you keep the game changing. Um, so I definitely I would keep it Keep them get rid of roar and you know titanic bill keep all the other ones And because I I'm thinking if you get rid of all of them then you're stopping people from doing them That are on their war scroll And that's fair point Yeah, we've got that there is the challenge here you brought up of Uh Is some monsters have their own unique monsters rampages written onto the war scroll So if we get us in the whole class of thing, it's suddenly not going to make any sense What they're doing there, right? This is a challenge now I the others this is the toughest one for me I went back and forth on this a hundred times. It really is. Yeah, I mean there's so many arguments on both sides Yeah, because here's the thing in the hero phase. You may not have anything else to do especially in the enemy's turn, right? Like you may not Maybe you're unbinding their stuff. Maybe you're not okay But you're mostly just sitting there on your hands, but this at least feels like you've got something right What about modifying roar so it goes off on a five Well, then it's gonna then it's like a feel bad because you didn't roll it, right? It's the opposite way around like then you fail it more and so that now the player's like, oh Right the thing about the charge phase is it's already a pretty exciting phase in your own turn And even in your enemy's turn because you're like, let's face it This is like the phase. We're all on the edge of our seats Raising up clenching because like, you know, somebody's got a An eight inch charge and they roll that six and then they're like They punch the re-roll It's a big moment. That's a big moment, right? You're like, come on fail it again fail it again fail it again Just fail those dice fail those dice And then you see them like you see the first dice stop moving. It's a one And so how you know, they can't get the eight and you're like But you don't say anything. You're like, mm-hmm. Okay Right like come on. You know, that's an exciting moment So the charge phase is already Well charged with energy and excitement, right? So do we need the second thing? Let me let me pitch an idea at you Oh, the other problem is people forget these all the time. I forget these all the time still everybody Yes, even a mon a lot of experienced players. They'll still forget them. Okay, let me pitch an alternative idea at you All right, let's see if we can fix this Monstrous rampages we keep but we keep it like this Monstrous rampages is just stomp It's just stomp Okay two up d3 mortal wounds And you can stomp Right like that's it. Your monsters can stomp It's the same way as it does now. It cannot stomp It can stomp other monsters But yeah, and you can do it multiple times like that's the rule we're gonna change you can all all your monsters can stomp You can stomp Oh, that seems good. All right. Like it's a fun thing to do. It's damage new players will grok it I am a big giant thing. I am fighting little tiny things. I step on them and make them die Produces the idea monsters rampage get people familiar. Yeah, hopefully you can remember that in a charge phase. It's yeah I think that And It's still it's a very simple thing that they can remember to do. It's very intuitive I might my big guy stomps on your little guys That's it and all my big guys get to do that This is issue jack. You brought up where we're not saying we're removing monstrous rampage entirely We're not saying you can't use stuff on your warp scroll. So that's that's still on the table Yeah, so if you have a special thing that instead of doing another monstrous rampage You can do this this special monster rampage sure like of course the scroll one can still happen Right like that's on your scroll and it's going to tell you specifically what to do and you Uh, and you'll remember it right so easy Okay All right, everybody jack. What do you think about that? Are you good with that? I'm good Okay Keep stomp only but all monsters can Stompy stomp Are we moving past the charge phase? Yes So what about unleash hell? We're gonna get to command abilities in just a moment like all the command abilities. We're going to discuss this one here. Okay Okay Yes, as as uh, as grand alliance death said most uh Most special rampages are just improved stomps anyways other than tree lords Right most of them are just like when you stomp instead of doing a d3 mortals you do four or something It's like, oh, okay cool it very very much understand what's going on here Triumphs, uh I mean we're firing these into the sun right? I mean is there a what are we? Is there any reason to keep this? Yeah, because it gets rid of the incentive to make your army as small as possible because you really want that Extra charge and stuff and just like all right that will be later on you can get into the Gaming mechanics of trying to get the triumph and so nope just get them out just get them out Like these are these just feel completely unnecessary to me Yeah Especially for a newer player Like that's just that's just gone gone gone gone I'd note if you're watching matthew barker props to you man 5-0 over the weekend 1920 jack was his list nergal Double triumph double blood thirsty got rot two by five bliking just leaning all the way into it. I loved it. Oh my god I love it Double blood thirsty that is amazing. You could punch both of those in the same phase too. That's what's so incredible about that Yeah, that is really cool That takes guts to double to double triumph. Yeah All right, let's roll lines. You win the game. It's easy. Let's talk command abilities and oh boy Oh boy Uh This one is a tricky tricky tricky one right Um So look Command abilities Do we all like all out attack and all out defense? Of course we do Nobody's gonna argue for those to be cut. They make complete sense. It's the combat phase You can spend this little button over here this little resource and give your guys plus one to hit Or you can spend this little button over here and give your guys who are being attacked plus one to save It's sensible. It's easy. It's intuitive No problems. Do we all agree with that? Mm-hmm. Okay Let's keep going The reroll charge thing right Reroll charge feels like a pretty easy one feels like it's in we all like it You can do it to one unit per charge phase It sucks when you have like a three inch charge and roll a two That's one of the worst things in the world So having a little button you can push to just be like No, and then you get more than a three and you're like, yay All right. That's a good moment. Okay So, okay cool that's staying that's in Uh, all right Inspiring inspiring presence right so don't flee to battle shock Um You teaches you that that like you're gonna learn there's a battle shock thing That's gonna happen because we're keeping that they're not changing that That mechanic So the ability to have to lose a unit to have a unit down But to have your one brave little clan rat fight on right and be like, yes, I still stand Feels pretty cool, right? And it's like, yeah, okay that that sticks around any anybody jack any opposition to inspiring presence Okay, what we're learning here is that basically all of the ones that have existed since the inception of aos that were in like the first book Are pretty non controversial because they're operating on the sort of core Fluke dice rolls of the game Right, right and they allow the player to sort of minimize the the negative externalities of a dice game, right? Okay The run I don't know like the run one. That's the one. Yeah, I'm pushing that to the side It's been around forever. I don't know if it needs to stick or not, but It's kind of borderline to me. Yeah, it's like, yeah, you could go out of the way on it. Sure All right, that leaves us though with with Some little picadillos shall we? Those little little challenges are named unleash hell and redeploy Okay So What are we doing with these two? Is it too much of a change to the game if we remove them? Or is this too complicated of a thing to keep around? It is it's a big part of the game. It's my issue. It's a very big part of the game. Yeah But we are there's a lot on the plate already To digest so I'm like, I think we can get rid of these two and and rally It's like, all right, we're just you the four. Yes. Thank you rally. I completely forgot about rally. Yeah, I shouldn't have And so much like tray you never forget about rally, but yes, okay, so I would say get rid of three get a rally get rid of a redeploy and unleash hell. I shall. Yeah That feels right. I'm sure a lot of people won't nobody's gonna agree with that. I'm I'm sure That feels right Yeah, exactly. Yeah This is a stepping stone to get and there could be another version after this where it's right everything But but like trying to explain everything I could I could probably see somebody start to glaze over When I'm saying, oh, no, I get to shoot you now. What do you mean? You know, you can redeploy you can do all this stuff and like there is so much I would say those three you can go Okay sticking with the the rule of three. I mean, yeah, I mean Maybe jettison run just uh all out d all out o And your uh re-roll charge, right? And inspire Okay, so you got to have you got to have those four. All right. All right. Let me speak for a moment in defensive unleash hell, okay Because here's what I'm gonna argue rally is gone It's it's happening at a weird time people forget it all the time the start of the hero phase You got to burn this thing. It's just it's an easily forgettable thing right Redeploy though. I love it. I think it is very hard uh It is very hard it I because of its implementation It is very hard for it to stick around and for new players to kind of grok. This is a thing they can suddenly do Okay, like when you need to do it and yeah the process of actually doing it can be very slow for new players Especially yeah, yes Like and I get it george, but I think george you got to look through the lens of a new player You're a new like let's just all set ourselves in the lens of a new player here Because we are most of us are people who are playing this game When you're a new player the numbers on your war scroll don't make sense to you You don't even know what those are Okay Like you have no evaluation of what those things are you've kind of got an idea Like this thing is wounds. He can't take that much damage or he dies What so okay hit and wound so I roll all these then these how's this rend thing work? Okay, so what does rend mean explain rend to me again Right Like this is the common stuff you can hear because all of that is new information to them at that moment It just feels like such a such an escalation To say like okay now also when people move near you Once for movement phase once for enemy movement phase You can like burn a command point and then roll a die and then move that many inches in some direction Most of time they're never going to use it, right That's number one like they're never going to use it for the clever withing They're never going to like move forward to block off a charge or take an objective or something like that They're just going to walk away from it, right? okay and The But but the one that sticks in my head It's harder for me to cut Is unleash Okay And the reason I think so Is because I'm not I'm not necessarily saying it stays. Maybe it goes. Maybe it stays. I don't know By the way, I do want to jettison the run six one because like who cares Like I know it's been around forever, but like who cares. It's just a thing that doesn't need to be there That doesn't feel like it's adding a lot. Yeah, it's just like an extra thing people will forget Okay The The thing with unleash hell is in its current fixed version It does feel pretty intuitive Okay, like you charge to the shooting unit They shoot you All right That there's something about that that makes sense Like again Well, dude. Yeah, like I'm you're bringing back memories of 2016 uh, it was 1.0 in my head tweets and people posting comments all over the place how We didn't have anything in the game that was reactionary with regard to shooting I can this unit that's in combat shoot out of combat Why do I get charged and the shooting unit doesn't get to do anything? I saw so many people Yeah, who had that take during during that 2015 and 2017 period Yep Oh, yeah, I think you're right The thing that makes me want to keep it is again when I'm thinking in this lens I'm always thinking what is intuitive. Have you ever heard the story about plants versus zombies? Do you know the plants versus zombie story? Okay, I'll tell the story for everybody. That was obviously a Redundant question because I was going to tell it anyways. Here you go so the person who designed the game plants versus zombies pretty standard tower defense game, right? And when they originally designed it, it was just it was just people fighting people Okay, there's just dudes in the tower dudes attacking the tower Whatever, whatever The trick with with plants versus zombies and what the game as it existed then is that it, uh When you set down your little humans to do your tower defense, they don't move they just stood still Okay, but the attacking people moved Right, and so immediately People who played it were like, I don't get it. Why do my people standing in the tower not go move like they should be moving Okay So then he thought about that and then he reflavered it as plants in the tower And zombies attacking well when you put a plant down Nobody expects a plant to go walk around Right, like it's you put the plant there. It stays there. It's a plant But the zombie should obviously shambles forward slowly as the as the enemy soldiers were doing right And so like people's intuitions about what they see in front of them is very powerful, especially when they're a new player And to me, that's where unleash clears the bar because I'm like Yeah, I've got a gun you charged me. I'm gonna shoot at you All right, like it feels like that Okay, okay, I I agree with that and I'm changing my mind. I'm just thinking about how much Damage I did with my luminous in my 30s signals and 50s signals. Sure. How it's seen Not having a good time But but they have also changed. It's not nine inches and all that stuff. So, yeah, exactly That's I'll say the new version of it feels a lot more controlled You're you're but you're absolutely right the the Downside we're allowing in is that a new player forgets it exists Charges into the enemy shooting unit and gets blown to smithereens, right? Sure Like that's what we're going to allow in here Okay, but to me it feels worth it But this is an easy thing to to so the command abilities we keep are unleash all out attack all out defense The re-roll charge. What's it? What's it called? I can't even remember. Yeah forward to victory Is that really what it's called? Yeah, have you ever said those words in your life at a table of warhammer? I think that's what it's called. Let's see That that that forward to victory Incredible, I've never said those three words in that combination when referencing re-roll charge I've said I'll re-roll the charge. I'll use my command ability to re-roll the charge And inspiring presence Okay, so you got a little bit of reactionary stuff in there all out defense is reactionary unleashes reactionary right Uh, you got a little bit of of offensive stuff there Good, okay Good good good The only one I'm a little uncertain about is the unleash Sure, it's you laid out it. You laid out an interesting case for it. It's risky. It's risky All right, but but I think we got to take a little risk here Um and and say and give it a test this would be testing of course, right? I mean it takes it like literally use it to to teach them new players and see what happens Okay All right, what else what else haven't we touched on jack? What else should we be should we be talking what other cuts? Should we have or or things? David Huron just mentioned uh cutting reinforced units. I actually do like reinforced units You know, I like that mechanic. So I don't know about that but everything's you could You know and uh, hey, well mentioned something that well when we just said triumphs get out of here Triumphs is a big part of their mechanic. So would you make like special exceptions for ko? Well ko get their own bonus things that they can do Right which has spent their gold to do it or whatever So I don't think they they just have their own special mechanic is what that becomes they they just you know Because they don't need they're not accessing the general triumphs. Anyways, they're using their like Uh, they're they're using their their Um, I appreciate I like how George is like 15 minutes behind us or something So I like see those answers. Everybody's what he's scared, but George, this is me in the future talking to you. Don't worry. It's going to be okay As you'll see Um Oh aos coach coming in with the big hotness. There's one There's one Miss cast that is just out of here so fast. Just jettison it gone like it First of all, it should probably be cut from the core rules. I get the history of it. Okay. I understand I remember miss casts. I too have played warhammer since the 90s um, but But like who cares it's just it's it's the It's just a thing that doesn't need to exist It's always just it always happens at a dumb time. It's just like, oh, yep, that happened. I guess I didn't realize people didn't like that. I've been out of the aos competitive loop. Is that like a He's just he's just wrong about this jack. No, he's he's not in the note. No, he's he's out on his own Yeah, I stand with hey, whoa on this one who said cut miss cast in real aos as well Yeah, there's nothing better than watching, uh than watching Well, I love watching negash miss cast on a second cast. That's really great. That's super fun for that player Um, you know, what it usually ends up happening though is either negash miss casts or uh, or just some random hero They were just trying to push out like an arcane bolt on just miss cast It's like not only do you not get the spell, but you also potentially kill your hero right Great good times um You mentioned reinforcements jack and wanting to keep it. I do think it's a Uh, I do think it's a thing that should stick around because people want to build units and it's sort of that Is a very core concept of the game to be able to like Build a unit, you know, like hey, I've got 10 guys. I want to make it 20 guys. That's okay. That's a thing, right? um But tyler, where are you coming down on the reinforcement point side? I mean You know my history with a lot of this stuff like anything that can generally promote More variety more units more multiple small units, right? Especially at a beginner level you have an army that's and plaguebearers and five blight kings and two blight lords not 20 plaguebearers and 10 blight kings and one hero and that's my army That probably doesn't even fit at thousand points, but you get the point I'm sure I hear a guy. Yeah, I love anything that can promote diversity variety particularly for beginners So I would probably come down on the side of yeah Let's let's not do reinforcing. I don't know if we're gaining a whole lot by reinforcing at that at that level I mean, maybe there's something with hobbying and what you're wanting to do like if you're Working, yeah, I mean, I think that if I was going to provide the counterpoint to it It would be like I'm playing gets skaven or daughters or beast of chaos maybe or Uh Savage orks Telling me horde armies exist in this game and and and people like horde armies and correct You have to respect horde armies as a concept. Wow I'm saying there's a lot of armies that where if I just took 10 storm vermin, I would be like, what's the point of this? What is this doing like me in the middle and you can only reinforce a unit once Yeah, you can get really like that you're saying so the battle line distinction is gone right where it's like You can reinforce battle line units twice because the other way you could go by the way is you could just like Take off the the governor switch of reinforcement points completely and say you may reinforce any unit one time Yeah, right. Don't worry about reinforcement points. Just any unit can be reinforced once Right that could be uh like a sort of a middle ground right A core book does have a table A zero to 150 zero to 2000 zero to three 1500 and then the core zero to four for 2000 They do have that there Yeah, this is a good point Coach also raised a good point that some units when you buy them they come automatically reinforced like just it so happens Complete happens to answer you buy the unit because it's an older box To buy it in a 10 or something like that when it comes in fives It's usually no bigger than that, you know, you get a unit of 20 that can that can be taken in 10s I always want people to be able to play a painted illegally painted army Like this is why one of the reasons I don't like that one mission where the uh The deployment area is so small like you should always be able to play illegal army that's painted up and so if you have you know 300 navy clan mats, you need to give me enough space to play it. Right. Sure. Yeah Do we like the middle ground solution here of Cutting reinforcement points from the table and just saying all units may be reinforced up to one time Don't worry about the mechanic. Effectively, we're cutting the double reinforcement weirdness for battle line Right And we just say that would handle the box situation because like skeletons come reinforcing the box more tech guard come Reinforce the box. There's there's some other examples that are like that Right. Oh, yeah, thank you. Yeah point grout bounders. Also. That's not there you go. I knew I knew there was something in gets I just couldn't remember which one it was Uh, that's probably fine Does that feel like a good middle ground like 20 storm is still 20 storm vermin. That's something. Yeah, that's 40 clan rats It's 40 zombies Right, like those are still big units. You're gonna feel like you're putting some meat on the table when you do that right Yeah It's back on some of the nonsense, you know Yeah, those next set of 15 unless it's a single Unless it's a single of course. Yeah, yeah, of course We'll still keep the single concept because of course it makes sense, right? So any non single unit Can be reinforced one time cut Reinforcement points otherwise Uh Like the It introduces the concept of reinforcement and building up the unit without making it crazy or needing to worry about reinforcement point limits or stuff like that Which frankly, I wouldn't hate if we just kind of had this rule in the general game and just cut reinforcement points period And just let people and then then the only thing that the competitive game introduced was battle line can reinforce twice Or they are not competitive, but you know, I'm just at the tournament game because Honestly, I pretty much despise reinforcement points and think that they're super annoying They only the only time they ever matter is when they annoy the living crap out of you because you wanted to build your army and you can't It's it's like all that ever happens um All right anything else I think that's a that's a good list of like cuts changes things. I don't know anything else where we should be hitting on here Yeah, if there's anybody in the chat, you know newer players that come to mind that we miss let us know in the comments Yeah, absolutely. If you're watching back afterward Uh, make sure you tell us drop those comments and if you haven't hit like yet, you're watching. Hey, why haven't you done that? It's so easy. It's just clicking a button Do that we we discussed the terrain. I don't know if now's the time Well now is where we get to the this is the uh, we got two more slides. We're gonna we're gonna do the terrain in just a moment Okay We're gonna do the terrain and like other we're gonna do additions at the very end Because I want us to be able to look at everything That we've created and then say is there anything we want to add on top of this? right Okay What here comes the most important question ready? What battle plans do you use? Sure Now I listed a couple options core book, but you cut the battle tactics. You just say don't worry about that part general's handbook But you say just ignore the battle tactics Thondia, but they have like a weird integration of battle tactics and a very narrative and have their own built-in battle tactics and grand strats and things like that or custom I've got an answer, but I want to know what you guys think Um, what what you thought here custom like we're already putting in this work to like streamline the game Just make it very very simple battle plans Maybe three rule of three that we've been talking about like three battle plans That can kind of introduce them into what it's going to be like when they're set free from the nest Okay Yeah, jack on that point. So there's three in the core book If you've seen so frontal assault burn and pillage and rising power frontal salt Is essentially shifting objectives In the middle So they don't have the rule of shifting objectives, but they got the objective placement, right? And it's hold one hold two hold more. So it's very simple And I think we have or more than nine off the line. So we're 18 between the players So I think that one's pretty solid And obviously you'd have to update this to take out the battle tactics blah blah blah, but burn and pillage is like Of scorched earth style I'm forgetting the name of the what we did last year And yeah, but it needs a little bit of updating but again, it's four objectives It's pretty and then the last one rising power. I always loved rising power That one's five objectives that they've got a nice escalation here three four and five Um, so yeah for my money, these are pretty good in the core book, but yeah, you could probably still do some custom So have you taken a look at these in the core book? Yeah, they're good I played all of them. I actually like the core book wins quite a lot as as we mentioned before the The core book wins use a mechanic that I actually really love that didn't get integrated into basically any of the other battle plans Uh where it was like, um If you hold this objective this special objective it counts as holding two objectives such a wonderful Thing. Yeah rising power does that? Yeah um The Here's my answer. This is where George nailed it Okay, so not that George didn't nail it in the rest of it I actually quite like George's casual thing again link down below for the imager file Uh, I think he's got a lot of great ideas throughout but I read over The the casual battle packs battle plans and I was like yep That's what we need and in my estimation by the way six is the right number I get you jack three is good But I was like six six as a launch feels good to me just because you can roll a d6 Straight number and that kind of gives you enough to to get a little variance for most players who are newer or who aren't playing a lot That's fine You know that'll last them honestly a year Because they probably because most players don't most casual players or new players might not play more than six games in a year or at least in the six month period right and The the deployment variation he has in there is nice. They're all Simple but effective so it's like the box against the box right like the the box to box corner to corner The I think I don't know if that's what what harrowers calling the hamburger But I I'm a fan of the hamburger right so top zone bottom zone middle two and then And then I guess this would be hot dog. I think as we said I like this description if that's what he means Which is the vertical way Yeah, exactly Uh, so I think they're perfect. They are the three correct correct deployment structures, which is box to box corner to corner Flat on both sides flat on both sides. Please stop printing battle top battle packs to do this Just please To do this we just stopped that just ever from happening again. It's the worst Uh, and yeah, they're good. They're straightforward Easy he had he had one thing in here Let's see. You know, it must be deployed holy within their territory in more than three inches many models that is Didn't see with some of these the usual like The the box the four quadrant sure the center of the battlefield more than nine away from the center of the battlefield He didn't have that so at least if I'm reading it correctly. You're literally on top of one another potentially You can just be more than Gotcha, could be I don't know. I didn't I didn't look at that. Yeah, I looked at their little detail. Maybe sure But the general concept of that like you're scoring victory points for holding it's good I think by the way something he didn't integrate this into everyone But I think you could use the standard hold one hold two hold more I think that's very grokable and and is like A way that I would do the battle plans. I would just cut the battle tactics Have some very minor things happening with the objectives by that I mean like this one counts as to this round roll the d6. You know, you got three objectives across the middle This one counts as to this round. Okay. Cool. Right. That's easy to grok right And That kind of thing right I think there is an argument to do what he'd select the first one right spearhead Three objectives. It's basically in the presence of idols, but just different diagonal so He's got the one victory point per that you hold right out Vince if we're playing and you hold two You're getting points If you hold two with how he did it, you're getting two points So that is hold one hold two hold more, right? So I do like that for the beginner You're getting less separation in the style of the one victory point. Yeah, sure Sure Yeah, I don't I think I could go either way and I'm fine with it Um But thank you maximus. I appreciate that who said his buddy's and he don't enjoy the battle plans with jagged deployment zones completely agreed Can we just get some easy to measure flat lines? Like it's that's Why why did we need to get more clever than this? What army marched on to the board in this weird Like uh harem fan shape. I don't like this unnecessary Okay All right Jack is that is that what you're thinking right like sort of six pretty simple simple deployments simple interactions? You know custom uh six battle plans. I like it. Yep. Yep Uh, since I didn't write six of those out I'm gonna rely on george to do the heavy lifting here because I only had so much time Uh to do this I don't have experience writing battle plans. That's true. You may have a little bit. Yeah Yeah, I agree with george tetris is a great computer game and it's to stay on the computer. Yes. Thank you absolutely correct That's let's keep those shapes where they belong Uh, those shapes all have names by the way, so There you go. So you can you can you can look up those shapes names It's like l No, they're all they're all goofy things. They're all goofy names. It's just like it's like the ghost's names in impact man Right like it's the same thing so Thank you much. You I just wallet to my head I was dude so surprised to see what could it use for the texas masters like that. That was a really nice feeling But uh, I'm forgetting it who organized that but just the fact that they used it to Finish off that. I mean, that's one of the most competitive scenes Anyway, it is just like really cool to see to see them use the battle plans for that event So what that tells me then tyler is you got to write the six battle plans for this pack? Easy money right there. You get together with george. Maybe the two you have a little chat We borrow some from him manipulate a few come to a new six. There we go. Dunn and dust Players hate battle plans where you win automatically by having the objectives. Absolutely They hate that Jettisoned that's awful. Yes agreed. None of this like you accidentally lost the game in turn three right now No, no, no, no, no you redeployed off that. I got it now. I would right right Yeah, the worst. No one likes those. Stop printing them. Okay So Very good. Uh, oh the hero says we loved it. It was great organized by matt taylor. Cool. Fantastic Oh, brilliant. Okay, cool. Yeah, I never mentioned on the show I meant to mention it a month ago and it's just yeah, I was really Anyway, it was just amazing to see. Yeah, it was like the big tournament guy that you forgot his name Oh, yeah, Gavin. Yeah I know I've taken so much crap over that like Take more crap for that appropriately than anything else I've ever done in this community I knew he was it's just in the moment. I've Anyway, yeah, was it harambe guy, whatever, whatever. Sure. Yeah, the great the best There by atc in the in the entire country. Yeah Very nice. Yeah Okay, other concerns. Here's where we get into this now. Let's talk about what are the additions if we need to have some additions Okay, so what now that we know what we've built We know what's going on here. Let's let's do a quick. Let's do a quick review Okay, so We're keeping more or less the standard points and and and roll battlefield rolls We're cutting allies we're cutting reinforcement points instead any you can reinforce any non single unit ones No battalions no endless spells We have a grand strat one of the three from the core book No battle tactics. No realm rules. No mysterious terrain. You get faction terrain is normal and we're alternating deployment We're keeping heroic actions We're reducing monsters rampages to just stompy stomp and everybody gets a stompy stomp triumphs are gone Command abilities we cut the list down to the most intuitive and simple wins miscast is out of here I mentioned the reinforcement thing. We're using our custom battle plans Yes, jack What about uh command abilities on your war scroll? Oh, sure. They can stay like I I'm not gonna I'm not gonna get in a mess with individual Like if you have something that's that's that's why you could like never cut command abilities as a whole And I would never try to do that because it's such an integral part of aos, right? Okay But yeah, like same as with the monsters rampages, right? Like if you have one of those things you can do it We're just cutting the core ones that are that are confusing or forgetful. I mean, I guess that raises a good point like daughter's cane Of zealous order rally on a four up Uh gone. Don't pick it. I mean, I don't know what to tell you like we're gonna run into that sometimes That's fine Don't pick that thing is all I can say Uh, so, you know like yeah, you'd have to do it that way because you can Allow that kind of yeah. Anyway, you'd have to do it that way. Yeah, and and the reality is that same Thing happens in both a soft and hard fashion with the existing battle packs. Sure, right where they're just very hard Uh, or very softly removing Uh, or incentivizing certain Units and absolutely george. Yeah, the tree lord rampage master's rampage days Like if it's printed on your scroll like the the guo can still do his Enhanced big fatty fat stomp his mountains of flesh like beast of chaos. They can still get that. Um, yeah, they could Yeah, I'm already a call point stuff. Absolutely. They can still get there for more primordial call points Yes, 100% like I don't want I don't want to get in there at that level, right? We're talking about a general pack the it's always meant to be exception based where your army modifies the core rules Okay, so now let's talk about the other stuff we got to do terrain Are we introducing a simplified terrain pack that includes like Anything beyond what's in the core book which is like cover garrison and wildwood Right, I would say no Yeah, like just cover is simple enough Stand on the terrain get a bonus got it a bonus because they're still like no Do you lose it because like we're both in it? No, no, no this if you're in cover you get it That's simple enough. You know walking on the site. It's always good because it's like oh, you can protect yourself from being shot at And uh, yeah, I should keep all that stuff Okay So jack, uh, what about so sometimes Still see players who will place uh a model. It doesn't actually sit It like the model is going to potentially fall over, you know Well, you will be at a tournament or your local Store and someone would be like, all right, bellicor. He's up here. He's right here. I'm going to put a token down. Yeah, sure And Are we doing about are we well, and that's the trick though There's like some small version of this that feels fine and some not bad version of this that doesn't this is the problem with it because Okay, I'll give you an easy example I had some full monitors I dropped in the game on saturday and one of them was like against a building But just like up like this Okay, slightly. I mean like literally he was at a 15 degree angle because I had to kind of sit him there, right Is that like and again, we use impassable terrain at my table. This was not an impassable piece of terrain Okay There was just no other way for him to sit except slightly A skew, but he's still sat there like I could take my hand away The model sat just fine Didn't rock or fall or anything like that and he wasn't like on top of a three foot tall pillar Trying to balance You know it's like that at the same time you want to allow something like that. Otherwise things get like really really strict you know and There's weirdness to it, but here's my honest answer I don't think new players or casual players Give much of a hoot I think it is mostly Uh I think it's mostly competitive people who like abuse that or get into weird situations Is my answer Okay um You know, I did have somebody hit me up on discord and ask that very question They were like, hey, this thing happened and I didn't like his opponent had just like put his mall crusher on top of some You know a couple pillars and was like no, but this is where my model is and now i'm going to attack you And he was like you can't do that right And and they kind of discussed it and didn't know what the answer was and I was like no you're by the base rules Your opponent was correct. He can he can do that Right and he couldn't believe it. It blew his mind now. He's a newer player. So there's a time where exactly what you're describing Right So and I don't like I said, I don't just want to frame this only for new players It should be new players and players who want a more streamlined experience, right? So where the streamlined experience is valuable. So the question is by adding that stuff Are we streamlining the experience or adding complexity? Which what are we actually doing? So for my money, I mean events, you know this we've talked about over the years This might be the one that I've always found the strangest they have never addressed Throughout three editions of this game Seven years. They haven't addressed this It's so simple. You did it in your skirmish game And you can you're going to do it in different ways But the basic concept if it don't uh, if it can't fit it don't sit or how do you want to say it? Yes, if it if it sits if it sits it fits Fits, yes And you know, if I can what that means is if I can put the model down on whatever the surface is and do that And take my hand away and it just stays there No other activity necessary, you know dice balancing no bs. So right nonsense If I can set it there and it sits It fits end of discussion Otherwise, no To me, I have seen a lot of nonsense New intermediate and experienced all levels over the seven years Because they've never fixed this in the core rules And so I do think it would be useful to have a simple one sentence You just said It is very groggable very understandable and it It wouldn't yet remove any potential for silliness What are we adding here? Like are we are trying to like that feels like a big change if we're going to add it if it sits It fits thing, right? So are you suggesting that are you suggesting we add impassable a thing that does already exist in the game? Yeah, right and they just didn't bother to write it into the core rules Sure, right Inges pack and say terrain may be dedicated as impassable or maybe dominated as impassable Impassable terrain your models can't go on it or end to move on it. They may fly over it is normal, right? Yeah, that would go a very long way. Yeah, where again defensible Impassable obscuring are the three keywords that we should have in this game that gives you everything so you could do One terrain piece can only have one keywords Now you're Like I mean that feels like the right answer ultimately. Oh, you know, we did this of all words, right? Vince we had Introduced two rules. We had a rule of thumb, which is basically yours, but I did this weird thing of Sort of weird, but it was very effective. Um, if the terrain piece has more than four inches If it's more than four inches vertically, you cannot get on it But under four you're fine, but that's kind of weird, but it's very good and practical for experience players You can explain that and you're good to go You know, yeah defensible obscuring impassable. That's probably the key thing if you're wanting to actually address this would address it But I don't know. What do you think jack? I'm talking a lot about this Oh I I uh, I think keeping the training rules is good Um, playing them, you know, making sure people use them um, but that is something that needs to be addressed because when you ask me I'm just like You like I usually don't play with fires And so but it is uh, definitely big thing So I would I would like to keep the training rules because like you said like Vince pointing something out that I wasn't really thinking like this isn't just for new players It's people who right also want to streamline stuff and this like adding this would make it less streamlined but it still Needs to be part of the game and it's a crucial thing You know because we are fighting on a battlefield and terrain does take place in this, you know Magical warfare, which is it right? It's a lot of warfare game Final thought on that for to me that I would go with uh, what was it again if it doesn't Sit if it sits it fits it sits it fits. Yes. Uh, I would do that personally That's a big change. Sure. I get it. I get it I think the middle ground that I would come to here is to formally add impassable and let people nominate things as impassable And the reason that I picked that one is like the reason I would come down on that side Is because I think that does streamline things My point being is if you can look at it like we're going to keep all the rest of stuff like we're keeping Garcinable and Cover and all that kind of thing because of course that's just part of the game and it feels right there, right? mm-hmm The reason I like impassable is because one as I said it does already exist It's not like I'm cutting something from whole cloth here, right? If somebody plays the pizza cutter That's an impassable piece of terrain. You can't sit on their land on it, right? um the uh You know knoll holes are impassable all all this kind of stuff, right? the So like that already exists and being able to nominate terrain is like you can't land and do bs on this right Is It simplifies things because you don't people have you don't have people trying to go like well actually i'm up here Yeah, right and that's it Like they don't know that it doesn't add everything they can nominate their terrain if they want jack What do you think about that as a compromise? It's like that'll allow the players to also say some of this stuff on this table is impassable Yeah, I really did um, I think it was lvo last year where it's like you got to You know a sign you all rolled dice and you would sign this stuff and I think the uh, maybe defensive the defender or whatever can do it but too had to be Uh impassable too had to be garrisonable and too had to be wild woods. Gotcha I hate that they called it wild woods and not just obscuring but yes, it's the worst choice That brings up another thing real quickly, which I just wanted to come With terrain the way that the battle plans right now are written right is Assuming we're not out of term. We're jack. We're playing we're new players at your store and we roll up. How are we setting up terrain? We like the battle plans in the ghb. They tell us that one of us is setting up terrain, right? And the other one gets to pick the side Are we just doing that or are we what are we doing? How are we setting up terrain? I think I do like that because it gives the you know You know if you put all the stuff on one side, then the person can pick that side Sure, definitely makes you want to even it out. So I I still that's it works Or you can just like a kind of like agree on it. That's what we usually do on the channel We just agree on it like this look good. All right, right. Yeah In the end I don't I don't know that there's ever that many arguments about terrain at most tables I think most people probably use the method you're talking about jack like I watch your I watch I watch the battle reports in the beginning I see you guys both moving around the table putting stuff down and then going like You know, yeah, that's fine. They're like everybody just agrees, right? Um, I think you could do an alternating setup for terrain as well, right? So it's like you put one down I put one down and we go to eight pieces or whatever it says on the chart, you know I mean like that's fine too because then it's you know Everybody kind of alternates the setup. I don't hate that either As a concept. It's pretty fair. It's you're gonna alternate drops. Why not alternate the terrain? Right or it feels thematically similar um Yeah, okay, let's how does everybody feel if we go alternate terrain placement add impassable to selection of terrain types include all existing. How do we feel about that? Probably fine. I mean again, I don't know if we necessarily need to change the way that it's done currently with terrain But in general that it usually doesn't matter anyway Sure That is you know the way that the battle planes are written is a particular way and yeah Like we got in this conversation with West Coast Tom You know gareth he I think with his events. He generally follows the rules as written with how it works and sure China stand But anyway, yeah, that's probably fine Yeah, I mean in the end we all know the right answer here is gdo. You should actually write good terrain rules Okay, yes Stop ignoring this very critical element of the game that you've just decided not to write any passable rules about for eight years Um, sure Okay, cool Anything else that we would need to to talk about to change to contemplate here Anything else that you might want to add in go? We brought it up earlier The the awesome role for the Galician veterans fighting in two ranks. Yes I do like that. Just I think it's I hopefully that continues in the next, you know iterations Okay, thank good callback. Thank you. I knew I was forgetting something. Okay, but Jack here becomes the question I love that rule. I think it's a great rule. I think it does speed up the game a lot and make it intuitive to people Okay the question is One are we setting them up then for a bad expectation when they play a different battle pack and suddenly that isn't a rule anymore and all their those type types of You know sort of I don't know what I want to say like every All of a sudden they're like, oh now I need to learn a whole new subsystem for measurement and all my units that I thought were good suck Whatever I agree with you by the way that that should just be an evergreen rule But the question is if we keep it What's the What's the limitation? Is there a limitation on it or are we just like jettisoning the The range rules completely and say You can just two rank fight now. Enjoy yourself Are we doing it for a particular Size because that one's naturally restricted to Galician veterans, right? But there's no Galician veteran concept here Yeah, right. So what are we what are we actually doing to get this in the game? We can use the Galician veteran like rules and just saying if you're four wounds or less battle line Not mounted And just you know not call it Galician veterans just if you fit those three criteria Then you can fight within half an inch of average doesn't it can we can call it whatever we want But just use the same rules because I think it would it could be too powerful And like, you know, I I was playing, um, you know, what is the the alternate build for the wrath mongers with the skulltakers You get a skull reapers Go with the house playing those and I was like, I wish so bad. There were Galician veterans. Yeah So many guys super I've read them in 10 but and so I think they kind of they've done their due diligence and saw Like what units they were right because I just remember I have so many more blood letters now And it's like to go back into only fighting with you know, five of them. I would be so sad They're great right now Sure Corn in general just a lot of corn blood reapers a lot of corn benefits from that rule in a big way, right? Um, and we all love it. We all think it makes the game better Yes, and I think this and it's not like a difficult thing where we're trying to make this simple I think it makes the game simple where you're fighting within, you know, half inch of a guy was in that bench Just like every year I'm fighting with all my guys rather than the five up front Well, then that's my point. Is there a value here to Eliminating the sort of so like we could just jack in the Galician veteran concept without calling them gvs right like we could just say Any unit that has a wound characteristic of four or less and his battle lion can fight in two ranks blah blah blah has this rule Right that we could do that all right um But at the same time we could also uh We could also have You know a completely different take on it where the take could be What could the take be? It could just be like Well, george mentioned this version earlier for each one inch of range You can fight through one friendly model or something like that right Uh You could go that kind of direction Um, you could go the direction of just like any troop Can do this you could really expand it out Right where it's like everybody that is a is a troop gets access to this rule instead of the normal range meaning you're not a You're not a behemoth. You're not a artillery. You're not a leader, right? Which Means everybody's freaking doing it at that point right every everybody who would want access to this has access to this That's like blowing it wide open They would worry about the balance of that you could say anybody who doesn't have a mount Or something we did uh, we did a mega battle a couple years ago and they had the rules for this And it was like everybody in the unit fights Sure And it was just everybody in the unit fights But they actually went further on everybody in the unit both units fight at full capacity And then you roll all your things and then the aftermath. I don't think we need to do that But it's just another option. Sure. Yeah, yeah Like I think giving them some kind of estimate of Uh Of like how this functions. I think there's a lot of good and bad on both sides It's like coach raises a good point Which is like I don't like it because i'm teaching someone in november then december rolls around the gv stuff disappears It's confusing to new players and skews the way they look at the game in units Which is true Yeah, like that's also true my my my concern with this thing is it's so ephemeral right now I like it so much In and what it does for the ease of play But I don't know that I can rely on it sticking around and it really bothers me that it's not just a thing in the core rules All right Well, I was getting there there's balance issues as well You wouldn't have to look at carefully like curnoff hunters with great swords now open value Because if you're doing this in general with troops, I mean, there's a lot of examples we could look at that could have real balance issues but yeah, I Think it's probably not something to me It's also along the lines of talking about wanting to introduce if it sits it fits Or whatever my brain can't get that right if it fits it sits and Yeah, we like we're making a pretty big core rules change and I get why Don't necessarily want to do that even if it would improve the game Even if it's one of the things that they should have done by now I don't know. It's it's tricky, but probably not for me This one is to me the closest to 50 50 We've had Right because you can see all the benefits, but there's also so many downsides it's just like the the scales are just Just bouncing back and forth right here Right and I I don't know what to do with it um, if if the if If this was just a concept in the core game Then I would have no then I'd be like great. We're all perfect. You don't even have this discussion Right. We're good Um At the same time it's like reach and weapon range and stuff like that is so integral. It's often built into Uh, it's often built into points costs It's part of you know, some armies have special abilities with it like wardens having a three inch reach is a big deal Right. Um, scaven getting bonus reach is a new is a is a big deal right So but at the same time exactly what you said jack like it really sucks to play blood letters without this rule Right. So it's just one of those things where they're such good and bad I I honestly am not sure I have an answer for it. I think When I'm that close I would err on the side of caution Right like when I when it's that close and we can see so many good and bad to it The right answer is to be conservative and say, okay, let's not do it Let's use the base stuff We could always circle back and drop it in if we felt like especially for Especially for this it's more introductory oriented. Yeah I mean, but the the to me the point of the thing is When you're when you're not sure You don't you just go, okay. Well, then let's not do it Right because because we we don't all the unknown unknowns to that are going to cause problems Right, and it is we know we're adding more complexity at the same time We are buying some simplification. We don't know how that balance works out. So we don't throw it in there Okay All right, but it's good discussion like I could easily see people wanting to have it in here and I wouldn't I wouldn't be like you're you're crazy Right, I would just I would personal take leave it out But if somebody said I want to put it in okay knock yourself out like I'm not fighting you on that I get it Uh, all right anything else gentlemen Um Yeah, like I think there's these are things that kind of are part of the game So, you know it needs to be fixed anyway, but just like coherency and piling There's the things that this is something people are going to need to learn Like piling can be like tricky coherency can be tricky, but like It's not going to be we're not going to we're not trying to change the game that much This is it core thing. It'd be like trying to change like a priority role. Like no, it's part of the game Yeah Yeah, the harrower mentioned priority a few times and to me it is just such a core part of the game That like priority being a thing in aos. It simply is a thing you need to learn and like Yeah, I know it's going to push some players out because they just can't handle the role for priority thing I get that But it is a core part of the game and if you can't like that it is Intrinsic to aos and if that's going to be a break for you then aos isn't the game for you Yeah, I don't know what else to say there And I've played so much aos like I tried to learn 40k like a couple times that guy teaching me and I'm like I was playing and I was like the only way I have a chance to win is if I can w-turn you right now And that was like and then it gave me new appreciation for priority role Yeah, so Like it it has a lot of good a lot of bad of course like I'm not going to make this a priority role discussion But again when in absence of evidence of extreme benefit I default to the the To like the existing core rules and that's part of the existing core rules It's it's like it is printed in the dna of the game, right? Whereas the fight an extra half an inch battle bond thing is not Right, so you leave that out. You keep the other one in that's that's what I would say Um Okay Yeah, what else anything are we actually doing this? We're actually gonna Yeah, I mean I did most the heavy lifting for you here, Tyler. Now you just take this and Format it out Yep Might know of a few amazing designers in the community. We just might have a few Going around absolutely. I'm saying like this is I think that this this should be a thing that we that we actually bring to bear And yeah available to people. Yes, like if you make if you make the battle plan, I will do a battle report on it Oh, love you. All right. There you go. I will All right, George. You're still listening. You and I need to talk. We need to Need to talk coordinate like There we go I think we got a plan. So we'll we'll figure it out. We'll get this together Uh, this needs a letter c and I've just now noticing. I've been sitting there with other conurns Uh on the on the screen for like a half hour. How fun of me Um At any rate. Yeah, there you go. Good stuff. What did we miss? What did we leave out? What's your opinion? What would you do differently? Um for the streamline simplified battle pack? Uh, but yes, I very much want to see us release this put a version of this thing out Of course, Tyler. I am willing to help and pitch in as well. Yeah, definitely. Well, after each other Rob I need I need to watch that show. I never did yep Just show here. What all they're thinking. Yeah, George. Just hit us up, man Just hit Tyler on twitter myself on twitter or something. It's easy. Um at scrubby and wells But yes, we should not not 2b. Yes 1b Um, yeah, hit us up my dog. It's this great work you did here Uh Okay, awesome Uh, well, hey if we missed anything tell us otherwise just hit like jack You're the man. Thank you, sir Thank you Absolute pleasure having you on re-rolling ones is linked down below if you're not already subscribed to re-rolling ones What are you doing with your life? You're just you're missing out We're headed for 20,000. We're we just hit 19 Trying to get 20,000 for the end of the year. Go down like and subscribe. We're putting out more contents We're having we're trying to get to 20,000 before the end of the year folks Let's get to 20,000 before the end of the month Okay, let's do this come on Come on. Go sub to re-rolling ones. They're they're an amazing group of great guys giving you the best matter reports around I gotta say I really do love the way you do your battle reports. I'll tell you what it is You cut the movement out It's why I watch every one of your battle reports, but often skip other people's you cut the movement out Thank you. Thank you so much Thank you It was the banter is the camaraderie, but no, it's the movement phase sweet No, look, you guys are great. You play great. It's always fun to hear you talk back and forth But you cut the movement phase and that's what sold me. Okay, everybody's got their own value props Yeah, you go. There we go. Awesome. Very good. Their channel's linked down below. Go hit that give them a sub By the way, if you're watching this and you have it subbed over here Hey, why not click that button to youtube super fun and all that's free If you want to actually pay some money to support this channel You can do that too. There is a patreon link down below focused on the hobby Let's say you're an amazing painter like tyler, but you want to take your steps Uh, your next steps in the hobby journey. You can do that right down there Join an awesome discord full of enthusiastic hobbyists Uh, you can be like me. I I I'm one of the patrons. I absolutely jackson. Why aren't you it? Yeah, well that would help me. There is no re-rolling ones. He was my he's my aos sherpa He led me to the promise land and uh, yeah, he was one of my uh, I was just googling Why does everybody hate aos when I was uh getting back in the hobby and this guy was everywhere? And so I started watching it was great. That's amazing Uh, there's also a merch store down there. Don't forget to show your support for team tom or team tyler We're running until the end of the year to see who comes out the best. Who is the better co-host? We will decide through capitalism, of course the only way that all things are decided in our society All apparent value is apparently measured Uh, and uh, yeah other than that jack like I said, thank you so much brother. It is always a pleasure to hang out with you Uh, I am sure I will see you at a tournament or something upcoming soon Uh, but for all of you out there, thank you so much for watching. We really do appreciate it and uh as