 I tried pottery, I tried making my own paper, I tried sewing, kind of failed at all of them. One of my favorite ways to drink, I know drink of course, is with my mouth. Let's just say toast, let's do it better. Toast! Hey, hello, and welcome to the show. And this is a show, I feel like I've got to introduce it. I'm going to assume this is the first time that you've ever seen this, and there are more of them. But since this is your first time, this is a show about f***ing up. It's a show about making mistakes. It's a show about having a big idea or something you want to impress your mom with, and you decide to go out and do it and then find out that you have no idea what you're doing. And that's what we talk about out here. It's about recovery and getting back up when you get knocked down, but really when we're after the meaty mess up parts. So tonight, we have Christine from Silver and Salt. It is a jewelry place, a beautiful jewelry. And I'm excited to find out more and excited to find out how she got started doing what she's doing. Let's meet her. Everybody, welcome to the show. I have Christine. Earlier we were going to say Christine, which is not your thing. He said your name is Christine. Not. Hey, everybody, welcome to the show. We have Christine with us from Silver and Salt. Thanks for being on the show. Thank you for having me. Why don't you tell us a little bit about your place, about what you do? Oh, well, I'm a jeweler. I have my own jewelry line called Silver and Salt. It's a studio and workshop at Pike Place Market. Very cool. And so I make jewelry and I sell jewelry. Yeah, and you make the jewelry at Pike Place Market. I do, yeah. My studio and my showroom are all in one space. So when you walk in, you can look to the left and see the jewelry, or you can look to the right and see where we make it. So is it, can I watch you make it when you're, really? Sure. Like behind glass, I can just, like, oh no. Just right there. It's just right there in the open. So it's not like the zoo. No, it's not like the zoo. Although, people do come and stand in the window because jewelry benches are right next to the window. So they'll come and they'll stand and stare. Yeah. And sometimes take pictures. So people, how did you get started? You kind of have to go, like, way, way, way, way, way back. Perfect. We'll go far back. When I consider myself, I guess I call myself like a random creative. So all I knew, well, now see, I have to go way, way back. Keep going. Yeah, yeah. So I got a degree in English literature. I got out of college, and I was like, what am I going to do with this degree in English literature? And it was right at the beginning of the dot-com boom. Wait, what did you focus on English literature-wise? 19th century British literature. Great. This is really exciting to me. Yeah, yeah. So I'm out of school with this useless degree that, you know, but was my passion. And it was right at the beginning of the dot-com boom. Somehow I got, I sort of fell into working in tech as a project manager. So English degree project manager, I don't know. Hey, I'm an English major. OK, so you know what I mean, right? I totally know what you mean. My parents are shocked I have a job now. If you call this a job, yes. It's a job. So yeah, so I was working in tech. I worked in tech for like 15 plus years or something like that doing project management, consulting, managing software development teams. And I finally got to this point where I wanted to make something other than email. I felt like that was my product was like electronic communication and taskless. Did you do anything on the side the whole time that you were doing that? Yeah, so that whole time I was trying to find my calling as a creative person, as a maker. So I mean, I tried pottery. I tried making my own paper. I tried sewing. I tried painting. I mean, I tried lots of different things and kind of failed at all of them. What was the catalyst to go from? Because I've got to assume if you're in software and you're doing project management, they're going to be a pretty cush gig. Yeah, yeah. My numbing maybe. Yeah, I mean, yeah, but it was like, you know, some people can like work to live and some people live to work, you know, right type of a thing. And I just fall into the category where it's like, if I don't get any kind of personal fulfillment out of what I'm doing, it doesn't really matter how much money you pay me. And I tried for a really long time, you know, to just sort of like suck it up and do the job and then come home and do whatever. But also at the end of the day at a job like that, you're just so tired, right? When you get home, it's like, you don't want to really do anything else. So I just had to give it up. Do you remember the moment or the time when you decided, hey, I'm going to quit my job and I'm going to do this instead? Did you start doing a kind of like side moonlighting thing? Yeah, yeah, I kind of did. So I, one of my random creative things that I tried for a while was photography. Yeah, that's- And I did that for a few years at least. You make that sound bad a little bit. You're like, ah, I did the photography thing. Only because it's, you know, still completely unrelated to jewelry. But I, so that was the thing that I did immediately preceding. Oh, before you did that. That's where I got into jewelry. Were you still at the software company doing photography? Yeah, so I was at the software company. I did this 365 day self-portrait project where I took my own photo every single day for a year. I only made it a hundred days. Okay. That's really impressive. Yeah, right, it's tough, right? Yeah. So I did that and I thought, you know, once I got through that, I was like, okay, I'm going to be a photographer. I'm going to like, this is going to be my ticket. And I still, I still felt like I spent so much time in front of the computer and I was, and I was, like it just, it didn't, once the project was over. Because all the editing and everything else on there. And you know, everything was still digital. I tried doing like dark room photography but nobody really appreciates it because they don't, they see all the digital photography and it's just commoditized now and, you know? Well, could you do it on the, with the paper, the chemicals? Yeah, I was trying to do alternative processes like what, like collodion and like all these different, you know, things because I really wanted that like, that like tactile experience of like making something with my hands, not just making something with, you know, a digital camera. I was thinking one, one plate what? Wet plate collodion. Wet plate collodion. Yeah. Okay. That's amazing. This will tie in later when you're going to eventually ask me why my company is named Silver and Salt. Oh, even. We're going to get back, we're going to get back to this. Why is your company named Silver and Salt? So the first photographic prints were called salt prints. The paper was coated with silver, nitrate and sodium chloride. Silver and salt. It was kind of a mistake because do you, can you imagine how many people come into my shop and ask me if they're salt in the jewelry? Oh, I bet a lot of people do. They point to the gemstones and say. Is that salt? Is that salt? Because of its magical healing properties. I mean, I guess you could lick the jewelry if you're dehydrated. I don't know. Yeah, you could lick the jewelry if you're dehydrated. Yeah. Is that going to get cut? No. That's absolutely making it in. I love it. And in fact, the you saying, is that going to get cut? That needs to stay in too. Yeah. Did photography, so quit your, no. You were still working. No, so I was still working. I was doing photography. And then I had an opportunity, this kind of art gallery shop came up for sale. And I was like, now this is my ticket. Like I'm going to buy this art gallery and this will be my creative, like to get out of tech. And so I did that with a partner, with a business partner. And that turned out to be like the biggest mistake I think I've ever made in my professional adult life. Perfect setup. We're totally going to get into that. But guess what we're going to do now because I can see that Jack's taking Instagram photos of his drink. We're going to drink. Drink. Yes. That's a good time to drink. I know, I'm so excited. All right, so what are we drinking, Jack? Oh, today I have a lovely drink for you called the Vapor and Stone. Vapor and Stone? Vapor and Stone. Vapor and Stone. Do you have to say it like that? Vapor and Stone. We got a little bit of fire here, some peach wood. Told you there'd be fire. Oh yeah, fire is one of my favorite, as you know. So we have Michoacan rum from just outside of Oaxaca in Charandon. Done at elevation, just about a mile above sea level in red volcanic soil. And then we have a Woodford Reserve, house made peach and black pepper liqueur, Benedictine for some herbal notes, and Dolan Blanc Vermouth infused with cedar, tobacco, aromatic bitters. Are you excited? Yeah. Special wood, special wood. It's coming like in a cold drink. Do we have to drink it out of the cold one? Do we drink it like soup? That would be funny. I do have a soup drink coming up for you some of these days, but for now. We're both at the same time. No, we don't have to drink it like soup. All right, anything special? A certain method or a way that we should be drinking it? Yeah, one of my favorite ways to drink a drink, of course, is with my mouth. So feel free to pick it up with your hand and then place to your lips and slowly imbibe. You know, it was a sincere question until it came out of my mouth and then it was a softball for you to be a smart ass. All right, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Do you have a way that you like to toast? Toast? Cheers? Let's just say toast, let's do a better. Toast! Toast! All right, good. Oh, the salt. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's good. Yeah. Yeah. It's smoky because he bled it on fire, I'm assuming. Okay. Do you see the other salt in there? There's a lot of salt in there. There's salt in our drinks. Yeah. We should lick it because we're dehydrated. You got the... So I bought this gallery. You bought a gallery, which by the way is amazing. Like that's really wonderful. I just wanted to have a space that sold all the things that I loved. So I bought this gallery with this person. Yeah. And it was just a terrible mistake. Like we just, you know, about six months in we realized that we were not compatible in any way, shape or form. We had very different visions. But, you know, when I made that move and I decided to do it with a partner it was because I was scared to try to do it myself, right? I wasn't quite ready to give up my corporate job. I was, you know, like I didn't live anywhere near where this particular gallery was located and she did. So I sort of thought that like this was gonna be a good compromise. Like I could kind of go part way and dip a toe, you know and have this other person sort of supporting and backing me up and stuff. But we were not, you know, we were, we should never have been in this together. It was like, I mean, if you looked at that gallery today and then you went into my store you would see that they are like on completely opposite ends of the design spectrum. You're, I haven't been there. You're shopped now. But I've seen your website and the way you present and pictures of it. So it's pretty clean. Clean. Yeah, yeah, yeah. For the setup. So I'm gonna assume the other one was more like a like a TGIF Friday type of thing? Well, I mean not quite, but like I remember one time I came back from a trip, like a vacation early on after we had opened, like opened our partnership together. Relaxing vacation. It was a relaxing vacation and I walked into the shop and I said, why does it look like a thrift store in here? And I think that that was the clue that we were in trouble because she, and this was, you know, I sort of feel bad, you know, when I think about it now, but like, you know, she was, she had done what she thought was great. And I walked in and I was like, why does it look like Value Village? And you know, but there's just two different styles. It's just two different. She's a very successful, we went through a whole divorce. I mean, it was hell, it was terrible. There were lawyers, there were lawsuits like, I mean. Oh wow. We had to extricate from this like partnership agreement and you know, all of these things that was very. So incorporated as a partnership. Yeah, we were a partnership and like, I had personally guaranteed this lease and there, so you know, so there was, there were many entanglements that we had to then extricate ourselves from and it was very nasty. Like it was really negative. You go, this is like interesting to me, you go through all of that. And so, I certainly learned things from going through that and, but then you still opened up something else like did something else again? By myself. Well, I know, like, that was so, I don't know, like it just seems like that would be really exhausting. Yeah. And then, and maybe I'm just projecting, cause I'm like, oh yeah, no, then I would be like, all right, corporate gig it is. I'm just gonna whip it up in some really creative emails and not worry about that cause that was too painful. No, yeah, I mean, I think, I didn't see it that way cause I didn't see like the store in and of itself as being painful. I just saw the way that I had approached it as being the wrong approach. So, one of the things that I learned from that experience and like being at that shop was that people would come in and they would buy the jewelry. Like that was, like that was the thing that was like the thing that kept the store afloat was the jewelry. And so, I said to myself, jewelry, this is what I need to learn how to make. And so, I went out and I bought like, you know those torches that you, you know, he just used one for crème brûlée and stuff like that. So, when you started, you started just making it, you got a torch to start making it, but now I've seen, like I've seen the jewelry that you have. How did you get from, is it just practice again and again again, like YouTube videos? YouTube videos, I took a couple of like workshops at like some local art schools and I just, yeah, just practice and trial and error and, you know, just evolve. I tried to do like the art fair scene and it is brutal, man. It is so brutal. Why is it brutal? Because you know, every year you send out all these applications to these art shows and sometimes they take you and sometimes they don't and you don't know why. You have to audition for art shows? You have to apply with your photos and everything. I had no idea. For any given art show, I would guess that 50% to 2 thirds of the entries are jewelers. Oh, wow. So it's very competitive. You know, some years like I would find that I would get into all the shows that I wanted to get into and I had a great year and the next year I would apply and I would not get in and I'm like, how can I have any kind of consistency to my business if I am relying on these art show gods to let me in every year. So is this before you decide to do another, you have a brick and mortar now. You have an actual shop. Was this before you decided to do that? Yes, this was before I had my shop. So when I realized that the art, well, not only are the art shows unreliable in terms of being able to get in, but then you go there, you schlep 100 and some odd pounds of gear, right? Into these, you've got this tent and you have these tables and all this display and you have your jewelry and all these things that you have to like set up and then you sit there for three days and watch people walk by and walk by and walk by. And then you watch people come to your booth and you greet them like with hope and enthusiasm and they pick up something and they go, oh, you want how much? And they put it down, you know, and they walk away and it's just demoralizing. Don't you know who I am? It's demoralizing. So you gave it up. I gave up art fairs and I had a studio in Ballard, but it was in a locked building. So like people could come and see me, but they couldn't just walk in. Oh, so you'd have to, like by appointment type of thing? Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it was like by appointment. And then one day I found out about this space that opened up at Pike Place Market and I was like, wee, wee, wee. Yeah, yeah. Another artist had just opened up her shop a couple, like about a block away and she recommended me to the landlord who was in charge of that particular space and they liked my idea and I was in. What did you, what did you pitch? Like idea-wise was there something? I just pitched exactly what I'm doing, which is I told them I wanted to have a studio and a showroom in the same space and I wanted to teach workshops and make, you know, art accessible and have people be able to see, you know, us in action and they were like, that's fantastic. You know, the Pike Place Market is all about meet the maker, right? So we're sort of, you know, the epitome of that. One more question. Okay. You, you don't have your day job anymore? No. No, you're too busy for the setup. If you had to give somebody else advice, what type of advice would you give them for making the leap into doing something that they really, they really care about? Yeah, you know, people ask me this and I feel, I feel a little like odd giving advice because I was really fortunate because I have the support of my husband, right? To help make this work, you know? That still counts as advice. You could be like, find somebody. When you need a sugar daddy, if you can find yourself a good sugar daddy then you're golden. But I mean, I think what boils down to is before you make that leap, you have to have a safety net of some sort. So whether that means that you like give up your daily Starbucks or whatever and squirrel away as much money as you can or like try and, you know, like, just to kind of give yourself, like you need some, some runway financially. I think before, before you can do it with confidence. The other thing is have like, like you have to have like courage and feel confident in yourself. So like when I made my initial, you know, steps and I made so many mistakes, I think it was because I was not confident in myself and I didn't think that I had like, that I could do it. I didn't think I could do it on my own. I didn't think I was talented enough or had enough ideas or like all of those different things. And so it led me to try to do these like half measures. And it just doesn't, it just didn't work, you know? Because art is an endeavor of like passion and commitment and courage and all of those things. And if you're not there in your life, then you, it's going to be really hard to be successful. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you for having me. It was wonderful having you. All right. Toast. Toast, that's so good. Thank you, Christine, for being on the show. And if you like what you saw and you want to hear from more people like Christine, who make, you know, non-permanent things to show their love to people in the world, then subscribe, ring the bell, do all those fancy things. And if you have your own **** up and you would like to be on the show, go to FHUTS.com. Maybe we'll see you.