 G'day. Welcome to Bootlossophy, my channel about boots. If we haven't met, my name is Tech. I acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands that I live and work on here in Perth in Western Australia, the Wojcik people. Now, one of my viewers reached out to me when I talked about Leon Mexico in some of my reviews, and he gave me such an interesting set of facts about Leon that I asked whether he'd like to come onto the channel and be interviewed. So, here we go. So, Rudy, thank you for joining us. Ladies and gentlemen, this is Rudy Hurtado, who was born in Leon Mexico, I believe. Is that right? Correct. Good. That's correct. So, before we start, Rudy, how about you tell me a little bit about yourself? Well, first of all, thank you for the invitation to talk to you and your audience. I was born in Mexico, and I came to Canada like 30 plus years ago. But I went to design school. So I'm an industrial designer by training. But what I do now is more of a branding designer, so I was always very focused and interested in that kind of thing. So that's why I'm focused my time now. Maybe give you an Instagram handle, and I'll drop it in the description below if anybody's interested in looking at your designs and so on. Sure. It's R-Hurtado-H-U-R-T-A-D-O, Global Branding at Gmail. Sorry, it's in Instagram. Terrific. I'll drop both. If you don't mind, I'll put your email as well down below. Sure. So people want, you know, there are some new boot brands, and they might be looking for logos and branding, so if they contact you. Terrific. Terrific. So, you contacted me, because obviously, I guess you watch my videos or follow me on Instagram. Tell me about your interest in boots. My interest in boots started out like around 15 years ago, because I was always very interested in footwear, because I'm from Leon. And if I'm not mistaken, everybody from Leon has not less than 15, 20 pairs, because you always get them for free from friends, whatever, right? So you always have a lot of pairs, and so that was always very, and because I serviced a lot of those, you know, you grow up interested in design and all of that, right? But because I'm, there's two main reasons why I'm more interested in boots now than shoes. And one of them is I'm a soccer player, and through my years, I've had a lot of ankle injuries, and so I still play with ankle braces, right, because it supports my ankle. And with boots, I found that I was feeling the same thing, like more support on my ankle. And two, because I'm in Canada, and you only have like three, four months, three and a half months of nice weather. The rest is boot season. Have you seen this boots? Two monkeys. Oh, okay. Japan. No, I haven't. It's from a guy, Mishia, in Japan, do you know Mishia? No, I haven't heard of that. No. Oh, this guy is amazing. Look how, look at the waist. It's beautiful. Yeah. So the arch support must be great, right? Yes. Like here, you can actually... Yeah, it goes in. I don't know if you see it, hold on. There. Yeah, it just goes in. Yeah, it goes in. So the arch support is very nice, and there you go. Is that shell? No, no. I don't even know what it... I think it's bobine. Right. But because it's fairly new, it's still shiny, but it could... Let's see, hold on. I'm just going to get my oldens. This is my shell Corvun. Let's see the difference. Yeah. You see, now you see... Yeah, yeah, yeah. Definitely, yeah, yeah, with the light, yeah. Because as a designer, as an industrial designer, aesthetics, I feel that the boots have much better aesthetic pleasure in me. It gives you more pleasure to look at them, right? If the proportions are correct, it gives you a lot more pleasure to see it, right? When I see somebody wearing nice boots, well, you can't even... You have to look at them, right? Yeah, yeah. I think that's very true. I mean, I'll just show you my Thursday captain. Right. This is probably... Well, it was my first American-style heritage boot. And I think when you talk about design and quality, okay, it's a $200 U.S. boot. Made in Leon, Mexico. My introduction to Leon. But when you talk about design, I mean, that is a very pretty-looking boot. Yes. Isn't that, yeah? Very sleek. Very nice. Very nice. And there's a reason why they're selling cakes, right? Other than the price. Yeah. It's the proportions are correct, I think. Yeah. You can make it better-looking if you have Shell Corvette, maybe a few other things. But at the end, the design is the design, right? Yeah. Anyway. Have you ever... This is very interesting. Have you ever, with your industrial design, ever thought of designing your own boots? I have. Oh, you have? In fact, today I received one of them. Let me just... This one right here. I'm not sure if you can see it. Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. It's very nice. I designed it, obviously, with a bespoke maker, not other than in Mexico. Right. Well, this is... Is that a brogue boot? Brogue? No, no. There's no brogue in here. It's just a cap toe. Right. But there's two different leathers. This is bison, and this is calf from Italy. Lovely. But this is fiddled back right here. This guy is amazing. He made his own boot free as well. Yeah. I can give you the link so you can see what he does, because this is a dress boot. But he can do more rugged service boot, if you will. Lovely. But it is bespoke. Lovely. Yeah. It's a one-off kind of thing, but I have... One of the discussions I've been having with people is how difficult it is to design an innovative boot, because you have service boots, you have brogue boots, you have Chelsea boots. And whenever somebody new comes up with a design, I'll just show you Christian Daniel. I don't know if you know the brand. He came up with this, and I put this up on Instagram, and somebody said, oh, it's a bit derivative. It looks like a Weiberg. And I was... I can kind of get what he says, but when you go to service boot, I'm interested in your design philosophy, is you have service boots, you have dress boots, you have oxfords, you have Chelsea boots. How difficult is it to make a different design? I'm sure it's more difficult just because nothing is new in this world. I'm sure you can try and do something a little different, but it might not be to the liking of most people, right? So it's only for yourself. And I've seen a lot of people who do very almost crazy stuff, and it's amazing. But you're not going to appeal to the majority of people, and that's what people like to do is to sell the more you sell, that's the business side of the manufacturing. But I've seen really nice, different, crazy types of shoes and boots, but it's not for everyone. And the reason why service boots are very similar is just because there's a few elements to a boot. You have your, whether it's a cap toe or toe cap, your quarters, your vamp, and maybe the backstage. And that's it. Yeah. So how much more different you can make those elements is, I'm sure, again, there's a few brands, even in Leon, there's one brand called Unmarked. I know them. They're coming out with a few details, very nice details that I haven't seen a lot out there, and that makes them a little different. But they're not you. They're just making a little adjustment. What you're saying about tweaking it, when is something similar? And when is something a copy, like the Olden Indie? There are a lot of boots that look like an Olden Indie. And there are some coming out of China that are so similar that you might not know it's not an Olden Indie. It's when is it something that's been inspired by it? And when is it a straight copy? You see that one to me, the Indie, you can say that that one was an innovation because I haven't seen any boots that look like that prior to the Indie. And so that you can say that it was an innovation, I would say. And even Red Wing, they come up with a few things that the Mugtow, for instance, I mean, I'm sure they had inspiration from others or the brands or other very old boots, but there are the ones who actually brought it to market. And I call it innovation because if they didn't do it, nobody would be doing the same kind of style. So anyway, that's a debate that we can go for hours. Yeah, I mean, I agree with you that the Olden Indie is innovative in the sense that nobody had done that design before, but the innovation is interesting because it's a service boot, plain-toed service boot, but they decided to put a little stitcher on the apron. That's that tiny bit of innovation that makes it different. Yeah, exactly. So what are your favorite styles of boots? To be honest, I like good-made, well-made, good-designed boots. I have them all. I have, you know, monkey boots. I have Chelsea's. I have service boots. More, I would call them urban service boots because I don't work heavy machinery or anything. I work from home. So if anything, I just walk. I can do some hiking, but it's not my thing. But I like the look of a boot. So the service boots that I have, they're very sleek. I have all this. I have the Vibergs because they're more urban. So that's what I have. But I like a lot of, I like dress boots as well. Yeah. And it doesn't matter if it's Oxford's or Derby's. I like them all. Yeah, I guess. But I know a lot of people who have, you know, 50, 100 service boots. And again, my thought is like, you know, how much more different is going to be one from the other? Right? So that's why I like to change the styles when I buy. Because, you know, if it's not like one light color in black or dark color in one style, you know, I know people that have all of the shades of the color. And but they look the same. Richard's own. I'm not saying that thing. It's just in my, because I like dress boots and shoes. Although I haven't bought shoes in a long time because everything that I buy is boots now. Yeah. I think you're what I call a sensible collector that you actually have enough boots that you can you can rotate and wear them well. I'm, I have to say, and in my defense, because I get boots in order to review them. In my case, I'm starting to lose touch with wearing the boots and really, you know, getting the value out of the boots. And once upon a time I wore every single boot I had, but now it's starting to be where I go to the shelf and go, oh, I haven't seen you for a while. I think that my own interest in boots actually started during COVID. I mean, I've had boots in Australia. I own R and Williams. I had Timberlands, you know, that sort of boots. But during the COVID lockdown, not much you can do. You work from home. You're just not as busy even though you're working and you tend to scroll. You watch YouTube. And that's when I started getting an interest in boots. And I think it's, I find that just talking to people that the boot trend, if you like, particularly the sort of US style heritage style boots from Red Wing and so on. Like, I think they really started growing internationally in the last three or four years. I mean, they've always been there, but they, I think people suddenly picked them up. Do you find the same sort of? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Well, especially because the Japanese people picked it up and so kind of gave it a boost, if you will, right? So, but I always, you know, for 15 years I've had boots and again, dress boots and service boots because I like the style. But you're right. It's just the boom kind of started. I would say even four or five years ago and slowly. But now it's like everybody wants a service boot. Yeah. That and denim as well. Right. Like it just became because they go hand in hand. Yeah. So I guess that industry is booming too. Yeah. It's interesting that new brands when they started were small brands like Thursday and Grandstone. But these have now grown, those two in particular, now grown to be at least medium size boot brands. And then you've got the second generation coming along, you know, that are starting smaller brands, kick starters. And it's quite good to see the industry growing that way. Well, Coswell is doing the same thing. He's starting with that kind of thing. Kristen Daniel is starting out and all that. And now that you mentioned Thursday, Thursday became really big now. People don't realize, but now they have their own factory in Leon. They bought a factory. And let me tell you to buy a factory in Leon is not that easy. And that may, to me, tells me that they're making millions and they're doing very well. People still perceive them as small brand and they, oh, let's help them out. And the business model is amazing because there is no middleman. Yeah. But now that's how they became big because every dollar, what should I say, every profit dollar they made is for themselves. Obviously they did it well because they invested it. Right. And a lot of people would, you know, okay, 80 cents for me, 20 cents for the business. No, no, they did it well. Now they have their own factory. I believe they still work with the factory that they used to work with. Yeah. But, you know, that tells me they're big now. So they are not small. Yeah. In my, for what I know. Yeah. Yeah. I think you're right. And as you say, if you're buying your own facility, obviously the profits are there. But, you know, all power to them because that's what we want all these brands to do. Yeah. No, no, I actually, I command them for doing all this because they're doing it the right way. Yeah. And they became big because they did everything correctly. So don't get me wrong. Yeah. Yeah. Raising them. Yeah. And I think we all hope that the brands like Parkhurst, Unmarked as you say, Caswell, we all hope that they will grow that way too. And, you know, really enrich the boot world. Yeah. Well, yeah, the demand is there. Now, let me go back to Leon a little bit since this is the topic. Leon is located in the center of the country. And so because of that location, everything goes through it. And so it's a, it's a city of 2 million plus people. And to the 2 million plus people at some point in your life, you'll have to have a link to the industry, meaning when I was growing up, I was all my classmates, all my friends, my neighbors had something related to it. Well, I'm saying the parents, right? Whether it was a tannery, whether it was a shoe factory, book factory, leather good factories, anything like that. Right. And then when I went back, we were servicing the industry as well. So you can never get away from that industry. So, which means it's a city of 2 million people that, and I haven't seen anything like that in the world. Like you tell me a city, a whole city of 2 million people that you have everything in that place. And not only tannery and shoe manufacturing is all of the materials, the items that go around all those elements, like thread. There's a thread factories there. There's all the hardware. Right. There is, you know, the... Upset manufacture. Everything. Everything you can think of. Last people go, like Caswell, he mentions that he goes to, he gets his last from Leon or part of, right? Like they, everything is there, right? So, and you're in Leon and every corner, there's something happening with footwear, right? You breathe footwear in there. And you don't even notice it, but you see it all around. As a kid, I could go into these factories and I could see the people doing all the stuff. So I knew how, you know, what the tannery is smell like, because there's something people don't even know. Yeah. The tannery is reek. They smell bad, especially when it's like the blue skins, they call it. Yeah. Yeah. When it's just coming out of... They peel the hair and all that. In that moment, they stinks, right? The tannery stinks. And then once you are in a different section, once they put them in the drums and all that, that's a nicer smell, because now they're finishing the skins. But people don't even know those smells, right? And so that's how I grew up, just between skins and shoes. You know, all my friends now do something. They, someone is a bag maker, like amazing leather bags and others shoes and other... One of my friends used to do just to crop, had a place just to chrome the buckles and just to chrome. Right. Right. That was a good business because, you know, the people who make the buckles and all that, they need and they just send it out. Right. So it's amazing stuff that people don't even see. Right. There are three malls specifically for shoes. Like every store, malls, every store is shoes, shoes, shoes, shoes. And then there's one more. There's only leather goods. There's another mall. Right. Right. You know, like wallets, jackets, bags, whatever you want. There's another mall separate for that. Right. Because there's a lot of things, you know, there is the, even the soccer team, it was formed by the, by the Tanners and the shoe manufacturers in 1940. Wow. And now it's still going. But the reason why we have a soccer team is because of them. So everything is all wrapped up in shoes. That's fantastic. One of the things that, the link that I sent you is the sponsor for the team who is a boot maker, a cowboy boot maker. Right. So you'll see it in one of those links because it's, you know, it's the circle, the full circle, let's say. Yeah. Yeah. It's a complete package. Exactly. Everything goes around shoes. Right. And so the, and that's why I was interested on telling you that it is actually the, in my view, because I've seen it. Yeah. It's the footwear capital of the world for that reason because there's, everything is right there. Right. Right. The guy who made these boots, even though he is in, in Queretaro, it's another city, two hours from Leon. He goes to Leon all the time. He tells me that right now he's, he has an, I'm not sure it's an apprentice, but somebody from Germany is helping him out, making shoes and all that. And when he took him to Leon, the guy was like, Lord, all the stuff that he has seen because everything is there, like everything is there. There's one bespoke shoemaker in England. His name is Daniel Wigan. He calls my guy, this guy in Queretaro, where do you get this? Can you send me some? Like he asked for materials because everything is in Leon. Right. He tells me that he went to Leon to get the, the dyes made for him bespoke. Wow. There's a bespoke place to do your, your dyes. Dyes. I wanted this color. Oh yeah. Sure. They make it for you. Like that, that, that's why, you know, yes, I've seen North Hampton, right? It's a city of 300,000 people or less. There's probably how many factories you think of no more than five, six? Well, those are the populous. There are more, but they're probably like 20, 25. But a lot of those, you know, in Spain, Mallorca, there's two factories there, Almanza, where other factories are, they have to import and bring things from other places. Boom. Right. And you don't have to, you have all the tannery. And the thing is, Mexico, as a country, is 130 million people, right? And because this is something I was thinking myself, like, why is it that nobody knows about Leon? Because now, now it's been talked about a bit more. But before nobody knew about Leon, they just said, oh, it's Mexico. Okay. But nobody knew it was in Leon. The reason why is that 80% of the production made in Leon stays within the country because, you know, you have 130 million people to service. So, and then the other 10% goes to the States because there's a lot of cowboy boots, aficionados in the southern states. But a lot of those people are Mexican descent. So they know the brands and they know that they're really good and they're well made and probably cheaper than the ones, or if they buy it in the States, right? And the other 10% goes to South America and maybe Europe, but that's why people don't even know Leon. Until recently, people are going like Thursdays, like Divier is another brand from there. Christian Daniel, there's another, what's his name? Jay Butler is more like shoe, like more dressy style. Taylor Stitch is another brand, a goat bear. Roads. How do we do roads from there? How can we forget them? There's another one in Canada, in Alberta, Canada, there's a lot of cowboy boots. Because it's the Iraqis and all that. And there's one brand called Alberta Boots and they're going to learn to make the boots now. And they were impressed. I'll tell you how the reach of Leon has gone. In Australia, we're a cattle, quite a big cattle industry in Australia. So in many ways, we have our own cowboys, we don't call them that, but they muster cattle and all that sort of thing. And so they do wear Western boots. And this is an Australian brand. It's a Western roper boot. It's called Ringers Western. And guess where it's made? I think I saw your video on that. Because it's, well, I don't know about Australia, but for people in the States or brands in the States, the advantage of Leon is what they call the nearshoring factor. They're so close to the States, nearshoring. So it's so close to it that shipping time is a lot shorter and cheaper, for that reason. And everything is safer as well because it's all by land. And all the shipment got stuck in whatever because it doesn't matter from through land, there's no problem. And I think that's why, and the prices still kind of, they still have that margin for profit. And I think that's why people are just looking to Leon a bit more for that reason. Because everything is there. It's amazing. It's just not, it's hard to describe it without images and you being there basically, right? But I can tell you that it's just, everything is there. There's all, just imagine, there are 600 and some tanneries alone in Leon. 600 and something in one city. And has all that facility exploded in the last few years or has it always been there like that? Nobody knows. A lot of people don't even know Thursdays in Leon because they have so much information already. And they don't really care if those boots are going somewhere else. They just want to see what they can get. And there are like 1,250 factories between kids' shoes, women's shoes, man's dress shoes, more casual and then the boots, the cowboy boots. There are so many of them. There's one client or some friends even, because we don't have a lot of people and so one guy, or couple of guys, friends of ours, their service was to factories, to bigger factories just to do stitching, like embroidery. And so they were busy enough to just employ somebody to make this, the embroidery. And so they were busy enough to just employ somebody to make the embroidery to the vamps or whatever because they were for kids or whatever. So there's a lot of opportunities in Leon for that reason because the shoe industry is very volatile. It keeps evolving and so there's new needs every time. So I mean, you made me really interested in visiting Leon. Tell me, if I go today, what would you recommend that I go and see? And now you sent me some images, so I'm happy to put them up. But tell me, give me an itinerary of what to visit. Well, in fact, I went in last July, I went to visit because my family was there and I took my girlfriend with me and that was the first time I've gone to Mexico, period. And so we wanted her to see stuff. So my friend, who is a Coyaso, and Coyaso, if you don't know that name, is the same family, just a cousin of LeFarck's Coyaso. And LeFarck, people think is French, but it's not. LeFarck is the initials of Luis Ernesto Fabian and Roberto Carlos. So LeFarck, right? Coyaso last name. And they were all my neighbors growing up. They were like three, four blocks away. And so they all had this, you know, tenories, the parents and all that. But the three brothers, they kind of took over and started doing it more of, you know, more millennial kind of vision of business, not like the old ways that the parents used to do. So they started the marketing process, the whole thing, and doing or making good leather. And when you put it all together, as you know, because you're a consultant, when everything fits, it becomes bigger even, right? So they did it that way. Now, my friend, who is a cousin, took us to a tour to his own tannery. And then he took us to a huge factory that makes shoes for timberland and all that stuff. But they were, unfortunately, they were all like cemented and vulcanized and all that. So I was a little disappointed because I wanted to see the land is going, right? Yeah. But anyway, I think he wanted to see, he wanted me or us to see the immensity of factories that do that in Leon, right? It was amazing. It was amazing. It was just unbelievable. Like all the machinery and, you know, it's lasers stuff and, you know, the last thing, machines and the whole thing with, you know, you still need a lot of skills, but everything is made, you know, machine-made and just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right? Like it's like production lines. Yeah. That's what it is. Yeah. I'd rather see more of the more artisan handmade stuff. Handmade stuff, right? But this is me, honestly. Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah. Fantastic. What about sightseeing? And I'm sure there's a rich history in the city itself, yeah? The Mexicans are divided by states, states. And the state that we are in has a lot of history because all of the battles happen there. Obviously, even from the Europeans coming to colonize, everything was happening right there because there was a lot, there were a lot, there was a lot of silver and goods, the, you know, gold that they could retrieve and steal and, you know, but anyway. So, around Le'a Long, there's a lot of little towns and cities now that are very colonial and amazing. Right. One of them is, well, the capital of the state is called Guanajuato. Right. I can write it down for you later or type it up for you because it's Guanajuato, that's the state. Yeah. The city of Guanajuato, it's very European-like because Spanish influence. Very Spanish influence, you know, cobblestones and like everything's made out of stone, like very medieval almost, right? Right. But it's very Spanish and there has a lot of mountains so it's between the mountains to go from one place to the next, they did tunnels. Oh. The whole city is, you know, you can go from one place to the next through tunnels. It's amazing. And then there's another city which a lot of Americans, Canadians go to retire there called San Miguel de Allende. Amazing town. It's becoming very expensive now, but beautiful. And so anyway, that alone is, you know, you can spend days just visiting those places. León for the, it's more like a city. So obviously, you know, there's a lot to see just because of the industry that you're interested in. But there is another city very close to León and we just get it there. Where the bootmaker I was telling you about lives. And it's very nice as well. It's only two hours away from there. I'm very interested. I mean, I'd love to see the boots and where they're made and as you say, look at artisan workshops and handmade. But I'm also very interested when I travel to look at the culture that's developed in each country. And so the rich history of Mexico is something that really, I mean, you know, as a kid, I saw cowboy movies about Mexico made in Spain. So it'd be really nice to go and have a look and look at some of the old architecture and so on. Yeah, yeah. A lot of people don't realize that the cowboys were from Mexico because the boots were actually a combination between the Spaniard writing boots and their own seats and all that. That became the cowboy boot and then obviously, and the hats. Cowboy hats. Yeah. And a few other things. But anyway, they started wearing it and, you know, they just... How interesting. But that's why, you know, there's a huge culture of cowboy bootmaking. And there is actually, you know, construction methods. Yeah. You know, there's your hand weld. You have your weld and all that. There is a Mexican style of, you know, construction style. And that includes like the lemon pegs, lemon wood pegs and that sort of thing in cowboy boots. Is that where it comes in? No, what they do when they're lasting, they use wire to... With the nails and all that, they use wire to keep it in place. And there's a few things that they do. But that's called the Mexican style. Okay. Okay. Okay. And they're keeping that sort of traditional style of construction? Yeah, I've seen it. Yeah. Okay. Terrific. There's a lot of... Because of the demand, there's a lot of not good year weld shoe coming from Leon. I have to say that. Right. And it's because of the demand, right? Right. Right. And the expedience as well. They... But there's a lot of... A lot of manufacturers that still do the good year weld and a Blake stitch and a Panca vulcanized. There's all kinds of different methods that they use, but mostly is cemented sadly, just because of the demand, right? Sure. Yeah. So cheaper and also aesthetics are very important and... They're different in Mexico. So they go for fashion. Yeah. Even if it's, you know, it's out of style three years from now or two years from now. Yeah. So it's all in style. Yeah. And then buy new ones. Yeah. So the only way you can do that, cutting costs and all that is cemented. Yeah. Right? Yeah. So now the biggest... The biggest factory that I've heard coming from Leon, you know how many shoes they make a day? A day. Seventy? How many? Thousand. Wow. Seven zero. Thousand. Wow. That's a lot. Yeah. You know, when I see... I know some... Yeah, go ahead. Yeah. I guess when you have an industry that big, there's plenty of space for different types of construction. So, you know, no judgment there. Yeah. Yeah, it's true. It's true. But it's the demand, right? If the people are demanding 70,000 cemented shoes, that's what you're going to make. That's absolutely right. So, you know, that's how it is. And most of it stays within Mexico. So that's why people don't even know that Leon exists, right? Yeah. Only until recently, and I'm talking about a month, a few months, people are talking a bit more about Leon as a place and not just Mexico, right? Right, yeah. Because, yeah, there are some shoe makers out of Leon throughout the country, but there are not many. And most likely, if you see somebody coming from Mexico, it's going to be made in Leon. Most likes. You say it last few months. I mean, I've been very aware of Leon for two, three years, because that's where I've noticed a lot of boots being made. Yeah. But I've also noticed, I think, a changing perception. I think once upon a time, people would say, oh, it's made in Mexico, as you say, not Leon. Oh, it's made in Mexico, not as good. But people are now saying, it's made in Leon, Mexico, and it's really good, because the quality is there. The price is a whole different thing, because obviously that's the cost of living is lower in Mexico and so on, which dictates the price, labor rates. But I think people are recognizing, at least I think in the last two years, that Leon, Mexico is a quality harbor production. Don't you think? Well, yes. And again, history. Leon is a city. It was a villa first, then a town. But since it's inception, 16, when it started, Leon was founded in 19, sorry, 1576. And then in 1613 or something, they started to make shoes. Whatever the system, whatever the methods, they were making shoes already. So you're talking about 400 years of shoemaking. And so obviously those, the shoemakers or the shoe workers that work in Leon right now, the parents were doing the same thing and their parents as well and their parents and everybody, because that's the life, right? So obviously, now with the help of machines and if you're trained properly, you have skills on it, you're going to be making a good product. And that's exactly what happens with Grandstone, right? Obviously coming from China, the machines are making the work. But the skill worker is telling that machine what to do correctly. So that's why Grandstone is Grandstone right now because of the quality. It's not because of China, right? The design, material, all that kind of helps and when you put it all together you have Grandstone. But it's not because of where it's made, right? Same with Leon I think. So where do you see, I mean other parts of Mexico are also making boots. Is San Mateo nearby? No, it's near Mexico City. Okay. Because I've recently got introduced to Córdoba's boots, which is made there. And it's interesting that the skill of bootmaking is obviously throughout Mexico. How do you see that going? How do you see that expanding? That guy is more self. I've seen people in the north as well doing that. But no, I mean people need shoes, right? In Spain you have Almanza, Mallorca and you have other places as well. La Mancha. But they're scattered, right? Yeah. In Italy you have Florence and then you have Napoli, you have Rome and different places where they make shoes as well. In Mexico Leon is the hub but obviously some people have, you know, they like doing it and they're in different places. As simple as that. But I can almost guarantee you that they go to Leon for stuff. Because you can't escape it. My brother service, who has a business, well he's Italian by the way, has a business that supplies safety gear and stuff for factories. You know, those, what do you call it, extinguishers? Vests or whatever the safety protocols are. He's the one. So everybody goes there. You just find a need and it's there in Leon. Why? Because the industry requires it. So everything is in one city. Right. It's as simple as that. It's so funny that the boxes are in factories. I used to work with them as well. I used to design all the boxes and all that. Amazing factories. Huge. They just make boxes. That's it. For shoes, mainly. Although they do, for cookies or whatever. But mainly shoe manufacturers. And I used to design boxes for my clients. And check that everything went well. They have designers as well. You know, the constructions and we wanted specific things and all that. They have it there. And there's not only one factory doing that. There's like four big ones. So you have choices. End to end stuff. Whatever you need is there because the industry dictates it. Whatever you think is in Leon. About shoes basically. So tell me, I asked this of everybody I talked to in terms of making boots in that. How much did Leon suffer during COVID? Was there a big shutdowns and so on? A lot, yes. And here in Canada, the government kind of helped us out a little bit. But not there. So everyone was on their own. And to be honest, I don't know how they managed to go through it, but they're still there. And when I went last year, I didn't see anything different. So I think maybe they had I don't know. I don't know how they did it. One of my theories and you hear this where the supply chain is international where they really suffered during COVID because the supply chain coming in for like day night soles was cut and it was very hard to get supplies very hard to get supply of leather and all that sort of stuff. And I have a theory that a place like Leon would recover very quickly because you have everything there. So when everybody's ready to start, they don't have to wait for that ship from Taiwan. It's all there. I think you're right. I'm not sure because I'm not there and I haven't spoken to people but when I went there, I didn't see anything different. So I think your theory is correct because you don't have to wait that much and they probably have whatever you have in storage to me and credit, I don't know how they did it but I didn't see anything weird people like closing their doors or whatever it was normal to me but I think you're right. Everything's there so the only thing that is not there is the machinery that comes from either Italy and all that. But everything that is new believe me, it's in Leon within a year or two. Leonians like the latest because they want to boast or something between them. Believe me. So I'm sure whenever the good year welding machine came in the early 1900s I'm sure it was in Leon within a few years already. Because that's how it goes. They just want to make money too. That's the name of the thing. Sure. The real name is Leon De Los Aldamas. I believe is named after Leon, the Leon part is named after the city in Leon Spain. But then the Aldamas, I think it was a family like very well known family and so they named it Leon De Los Aldamas. All right. I'm very interested in that sort of thing. Rudy thank you very much for your time. I really enjoyed that talk. So viewers, hope you enjoyed that. If you did, you know what to do. Please click on the like button and if you haven't subscribed subscribe for more boot reviews and more really interesting interviews like this. Rudy, thank you very much for your time. Thank you so much, Tek. This is great and I hope people take this not as a boasting thing it's just more of something that they can learn a little bit that they didn't know because they just say Mexico and now they're saying Leon but they don't see they don't know what it is. So just a little more of the knowledge general knowledge of things. I think you've taught me a lot of things about Leon and I'm sure a lot of those things people don't know. So that was fantastic. Thank you very much. Thank you.