 The February 29th, 2016 meeting of the Robinson Redevelopment Board recorded by ACMI. We have linked the agenda this evening. First up is a re-hearing on the special permit granted several months back on 248 Mass Ave. And we have Mark Nune here this evening requesting an approval to make some changes to the permit that was open. So I ask Mr. Nune to come forward and... And Joseph R. Nune is here with me. Thank you. I have some larger versions of these. Yeah, okay. Do you have any text on it? I don't. If you could just walk us through the changes to the permit. So essentially what's driving this is the original proposal which was what we got the special permit for was for a siding that we were going to try to do this Nishihar siding. And the reasons that we're back are for changes to a traditional look driven by two situations here. One is really the overwhelming cost of purchasing the Nishihar siding and finding the right people at a reasonable cost to install it. And the second is what we'd like to do because these are going to be condominiums and we're going to have a condominium association is to minimize the maintenance on the exterior which the Nishihar would when we did that objective. What we decided to do was in going to the traditional look to go to the Harvey majesty windows which have the aluminum clad exterior and the wooden interior which will minimize the maintenance that we'll need for the exterior of the building. So what these drawings do is they capture those things. We are trying to retain the vertical. We wanted to have a shading where I'll just pass these around but I'll try to hold these up the way it was originally intended to be. So we had it's just shades of gray but it was a little darker at the base and a little lighter at the top. You can take a look at this and so we wanted to retain that to keep our shading. It is a fiber cement exterior siding which will be pre-painted and essentially maintenance free. You have to wave it around to catch the slight differences. It wouldn't bother me if the bottom wasn't touched darker and so forth going out. These samples reasonably closely fit the same ones that are on the counter pallets actually that you might have in your folder. While we have this in front of you just like I mentioned that it's actually been quite a while since the interior was 10 or 11 months ago. That's actually a full 12 months ago when we were here. There are one or two small differences to the exterior of the building from the drawings that we had in front of you. One of them is that we're putting a roof deck on the back of the building. So as you look at actually you have all four. It's a small roof deck that's actually at the back of the building adjacent to the turret at the back of the building. And we took like five entrances to the first four units. So we took one of the entrances out on the right hand so that's out. As we were going through the whole process we determined that while we learned that we can't put in a second line for a sprinkler line for water. Because there's a moratorium on getting into the street. So one of the things that we are going to have to do and I don't know if this is terribly relevant for this but I'll just add it is we're doing a water tank as a pump. To provide for the sprinkler system until we can get back into the street for a separate water wire which could be as many as five years out. And I think that's pretty much it Joe. Any others? I mean one of the things that drove the decision about the sort of change was to take the, you know, what we've done is one of the issues is the window cost. And in this contemporary look with the transoms, whenever you had to say a bedroom would have six windows. And in this scheme a bedroom has two windows. So they're big but it made a significant difference in how things were put together in the concept. More windows than the new one? No, fewer windows and a more traditional one. It's sort of a loftish look with the big windows. They're high ceilings. But we still wanted to draw attention to the fact that they were high ceilings. That's what the transoms did in the other one. But we're just the simple mathematics of the combinations. It was putting things over the edge. And so... I mean the cost. The cost, yeah. I mean the cost between the sliding and the windows was just something that wasn't sustainable for the marketplace. And that is the sort of feedback we got from the brokers. I've just put the other windows into the building I'm doing on Pleasant Street, the 247 plant. They're wonderful windows. Who makes them? They're called Geldwind windows. So we did them there. We did them on the whole house behind my mother's house at 200 Pleasant Street. I really like them. The experience at 200 Pleasant Street was good. The experience at 247 has not been good. Gentlemen have to come out. They have to do some work. But you know, they get it right, you know, optimally. But what Joe's really explaining here is when you go from three to two, you're actually literally by two windows instead of three. And the Geldwind windows are really, really expensive. You know, just at 247 Pleasant. I spent $48,000 on windows that are going to just two stories. There's no way near as many windows. So what kind of windows are these? These are the Harvey Majesties. Okay. And so they have a... It's a reasonably good quality window with the clad exterior for the maintenance. But with the wood interior, they have the quality on the inside of the home. And they just double home? Double home. They're not divided into lights, right? They're just regular. Regular. Clipped on millions. Oh. Oh, no, no. I don't think so. These are Harvey's... The Majesties windows have an SDL. I'm going to do some... I'm so happy for all of you. Yeah, I got a... I got a little disappointed, frankly. I remember this. And I remember how excited we were by it. Because it was... I'm trying to remember what was there before, but obviously this is a lot bigger. Don't mean story. Yeah. Oh, right. It was that kind of thing that kind of brand. It was so like from the satellite, right? So one of the things that I took into consideration when we did that was the fact that we were getting something that was essentially, I think, going to be a building that you and we could be proud of. I guess I'm really concerned as I look at this now. I mean, this is the door that you were talking about, and I had circled it myself earlier. I guess this just feels like a different project now. I mean, if I were on the right side, elevation, if I was next to you on this one, I guess I just feel like I was a little bit by a big old... It's even bigger than a usual triple-decker, right? I mean, it's just... I don't know. I'm not expressing myself well, but I think the very small just gives it a real sense of how big it is. It just looks so much bigger in this than it did over there. And I'm afraid that when it comes to fruition, we're going to have the exact same feeling. And I guess from my perspective, is this a hearing? Is this reopening of the hearing? I guess it's not. And for me, this is almost a different project in my mind. I guess I'm a little bit concerned. And how is it different? Just the way that the windows are masked and the siting, it just... I don't know how to describe it, but I think we would have had some... If I were a neighbor, I'd want to know that it's going to look like this and not this. The last time we had a hearing and you had to notify all the abutters and everything else, what they saw was this. Okay? Now what we're being asked to approve is this. And if I were a neighbor, I'd want to know about that. And as far as I know, no notices have gone out to abutters or anything else. We haven't reopened the special permit in order to do this. You know, a color palette and sample of the building material and color shall be submitted for approval by the director for consistency with the plan submitted. That was the special contingency. This is completely different in my book. So I'm not sure... I'm not sure I'm feeling that if I were a neighbor, that I wouldn't think that, geez, why didn't I get notice of this? So, I don't know. Maybe I'm wrong on that, but I just feel like we're... Well, it's your decision. If you want to do that. What it was to me was they had met all the other conditions, but there was this one condition and since they were making a change, I thought it should come back to this. Oh, I think that's great. But it wasn't... You didn't think it rose to that level of reopening the hearing. But if that's what you wanted, it was your choice. I feel like it's a different building. It's a different sign and different windows. Different topography on the top. Now we've got a porch up here. I mean, that's completely new. That was space that was not identified before. This door is gone. It's certainly on the edge. As far as I... I'm not... If this had come before us, I'm sure it would have been fine. So, anyway. Okay. Well, I wasn't part of the first hearing for the first part. So, maybe it's advantage for you guys that I'm seeing this for the first time. Yeah, exactly. Unlike what I'm like seeing, but I do have a few questions on what you have presenting. I won't really comment on what you're not going to do with this, because you're not relevant. So, the samples you showed us today was some kind of board of clapboard, right? Yes. Using a rustic wood texture. Cedar. This happens to be a cedar texture. It's a hardy board, right? Yeah, this is... It's just like a hardy board. This is actually a Laura product. Similar stuff. You shouldn't be using hardy, because it's a point, say, in Kleenex. But it is exactly what you're describing. Is it a smooth finish? The wood texture. Kind of like this wood texture. That's right. I'm not here to talk about it. Yeah. I just want to know what... I don't want to think I'm in a different deal. Okay, but this was what we think we like to do. Okay. The trim. What kind of trim are you going to use? You can use cement trim, or you can use PVC, or... That's going to be a PVC trim. And same with all the cornices and all that stuff up there. It's all PVC. Yes. What kind of mechanical system do you have? There's no... Is there mechanical system on the roof, or is it all down the basement? We think there'll be some on the roof, some on the basement, and perhaps one or two outside. So what kind of... Is there any fencing or shielding around that, that's just going to be laid out there? Let me just ask you a question. Yeah, we probably haven't actually decided how to shield it when it will be with a shrub, or perhaps with a small fence. I'd also like to put in a pad for a generator perhaps that might also have a shield, which would be over behind where the parking area is. Was that approved before? Yeah, that wasn't approved. No, we haven't even decided to do it yet. I'd like to do it for the corner association, and they would have to come to the pool, but they actually install it. Okay, and then... I'd like to bring the gas line to it so they can have that. They have an option, you say? And then are there any condensers on the roof or anything like that? There were initially, in the special apartment, the original special apartment, there were three pads for condensers near the on the roof. They were in the center. They were just this side just in front of the stairwell. The stairwell is sort of back in the last two thirds of the building on the left-hand side. And this was just in front of it. We can just say that they were out of sight. We had somehow been able to view them. Yeah. We had a sense of where they were. Yeah, I think there were a sense of where they were. I'm trying to lead you to us. Now that you've used the stack up here, you're going to not want to put those stacks. No. Potentially next to the tower. In other words, it was helpful right here. Okay. And the back, that's what you see there. What you see there is just a walkway. You have someone? They didn't bring it. It's a 16 by 16 foot deck. It's just at the back in the middle of the back. Yeah, I see the stack here, but when you do that, you'll probably want to put mechanics somewhere over here somewhere. So it's not next to the deck. They're going to be right here. Essentially right here. On the other side, on the other side of the staircase, the deck is on the back side. There. Yeah, so. I'm going to get a loss of that. Sorry about that. The tower doesn't go across the whole roof, right? No, no, no. The way the deck works is that you walk out the door to the deck this way. And on this side, the deck is on this side of the tower. This is just a walkway to the deck right here. It's like this. The stairs here. The deck is here. Sorry. Just understanding what that is. When I see this, the deck is the whole back. Yeah, I want you to see this part. This part here, the rail. It's just right right here. So there's some sort of you should do a concrete where or something like that. The back side of it. It's not covering a lot of this roof. And that would leave the whole side of the tower. These wouldn't be visible from the street. They'd probably be visible from some of the other routes. No, I'm what I'm trying to long-wired about it is you can put some sort of screening up there. Because once people live down here, say, oh, well, I spent all this money. I got this nice deck up here. There's a lot of channels equipment up there. I want to put a screen up there. Now you're introducing another structure up there. I don't think that's we weren't anticipating screening on the top. We've been advised that we could consider putting the condenser down below, particularly for Unit 1. In which case, we probably would put something around it be in the back of the house, but we put something around it. What kind of units are these? You know, I'm not sure I could really coordinate that we'd actually we're probably going to do we think we're probably going to do a ductless system inside the house. So, you know, probably an institution. So split on heat pumps? Yeah. And introducing it on the ground, doesn't that create a lot of noise for all the neighbors then? Those pretty quiet. I don't think they're pretty quiet, but I can't say because I've actually done them. This will be the first I have a heat pump at my house, but it's a Dagen. It's not the Mississippi. I think it's pretty similar to Dagen. Actually, Dagen started in the U.S. Yeah. This is the piece that you missed last time. Okay. These are the streetscapes. So this is the match that's there now. And this would be the three-level building that will consist of the streetscape. What street is this on? Mass and Hazard. Oh, okay. So this... Is that little ramp? I know exactly where it is now. Okay, fine. I couldn't pick right at first, but no, exactly where it is now. Okay. And so this one's a big stucco right here. This one is a here. And directly across the street is a very large three-family what are called a three-family chain. It's three-story. Yes, three-story. It's sort of like a similar height. I don't know what you mean by that. Yeah. So this building is directly across the street. Okay. And I'm assuming this is the front? Yes. Doesn't it say front? This is rare. Sorry. So I think my point is actually well taken in that what this building is similar to the building next to it and then to the three buildings that comprise Capital Square. It's a longer building. The ranch is just as long as this building right now. Okay, it's the same length because it's a small lot. The massing on the building really hasn't changed as deciding on the windows. I think if we took a real careful look at the windows across each one of these facades, that you'll find that the window space is reasonably well duplicated. I'm a little bit out on the wind because it's been a while since I looked at it, but that was one thing that we looked at when we laid this change was to cause the sizes of the windows to be crossing in the same. I don't have any major issues with that. I think it fits really well on the street as far as contextually with the other buildings. Now they're more where it is. I think Mike's point is a good point that it was more contemporary building with the more contemporary designs. When I look at this it looks more traditional, but that's not... I do have a couple of things if you do this more traditional design where these windows are and the stairwells there where you put the windows that cuts through the corners of the building and is there any way I've been using light besides or in a different way would not have this issue right here. When I look at this this looks like it's kind of a big front as far as the entrance. Is there any way I can get the entry a little bit more? Can it be a little canopy or a couple of steps for decks? It's a couple of steps up because we've still got to keep our access there and that's what the slope walk where it comes up from the sidewalk. There was some talk, if I remember from the previous discussion on this that there was actually going to be some landscaping around between the access ramp and the sidewalk. Has that changed at all? Yeah, I wanted to bring that up too. The configuration of the landscaping and the rest of it hasn't changed at all. It was some kind of distinctive thing. I don't remember exactly what it was. I'm just trying to think it's a number of months ago, but we got an email that there were a couple of trees and what we did do is we sent the page back in that had the landscaping on it and what we've said is we're going to try one of the two trees that were suggested because the issue there is that it's going to be a narrow area. You really can't have trees that are going to go too broad, but there was a desire to have them go up and be a little whiskey so we could have some profile in front of as I recall in the discussion and two suggestions came out and I think they'd be fine. So we need one of the two depending on what's available. So what did the original plans have for the condensers and everything? I mean, to be honest with you, once again I think that part of the application on that design is things like outside noise and condensers and all that kind of good stuff. When you last came we talked about things up here and basement. Now we're talking about things outside next to the building and that type of thing. Once again I have to kind of say that's surprising because it wasn't part of the original plans and that's usually something we spend quite a bit of time on especially with neighbors, etc. I've just looked through it and I believe this was the original well actually it's not, this is something later but I just can't remember if we had a roof plan that showed the condensers on the original. Do you recall? Sure. Okay, in which case what we showed was three condensers on the roof from Jason to the structure. Yeah, frankly I don't remember what it was but I don't think I remember ones outside by the first floor. We don't need to do that. We can put them all up top we've been asked to consider putting one I think the one for the first floor down below or you could put two below and one up. Put the plans that we approved for the ones that you would be built to. Okay. Those plans had I believe three on the floor. Those are the original plans that came with the apartment. I'm sorry, I didn't Yeah, I think I mean following what Mike is saying you kind of sold us on this contemporary thing and it was distinctive and massing it hasn't changed and it fits in it was distinctly different and I think everybody we all got excited about that because I'm really sorry I did that I know that's why and we've got that rain screen system I remember saying can I afford that? That's interesting because we've used out of bigger buildings It's like a rain screen, how do you use it? It was nine years, it's not three Right. A little bigger project and then you had it was kind of unusual looking and now it's heading back the other direction and it kind of seems like it just kind of punted a little bit and got heading that direction so I'm just wondering if you can do a few things that make it distinctive, it was distinctive and now it's it's not because it's in the same vocabulary of the party board and so forth I mean there are a few things that you might consider I mean one is and I don't know what the detail is but the typical band, right now by the way that's another thing Mike probably saw he didn't realize it but here we know horizontals like that but now we're going back to a shingle style kind of thing so the horizontals are appropriate but maybe you could show me what the detail is, show us what the detail of that is and maybe really an outline emphasize that but go for it it's really distinctive so you have this nice layered kind of strong looking thing with the bands and a real detail there I don't know what it is that's not pretty significant detail it's a water table over a small crown can you show us top freeze but I think you got to do a drawing of it a real drawing of it so we get it to scale not that you don't have a good hand there but you know with a cat molding on a sub freeze it's tall and it sticks out do you mean that's what's your detail around the windows is there any frame around the windows that look four and a half with bands okay doesn't look like it in this picture the other thing is the windows you went from the unusual lady in style with the top to the more standard look so those things are all kind of drawing it back toward a typical look I'm just wondering what you can do I think to know about what you're doing with that cornice is important if you can emphasize that maybe you've already done it I just don't know, I can't quite tell the other is color and I didn't realize from looking at this that you've got three different colors and this one maybe what you do you can consider is really give that bottom a brush a darker and maybe bring it up the tower so you really create something strong and play off that horizontal a little bit more something to make it distinctive I'm just making suggestions something to bring the distinctiveness and the differentness about it it's going to stand out not just okay we're trying to preserve the gradation and those are more accurate than the hardy plant samples there go darker with the bottom make it punch a little bit old fashioned buildings have that kind of different color base so it's a little more a little more something to give it a punch that we like when you came back before and you sold us on this cool thing that could be five different opinions of what that might be so that's sort of hard to pin down I think we should give the end of his distinction if Michael would give me my building I think Andrew's really getting to us right now what we see here is more of a not all the way traditional building not all the way a hybrid right now I think that's my issue with it too we run the risk of being distinctive in the wrong way I think when you sold us a gallery we're going to echo the comments of my colleagues here this original design to look at and take notice of especially on this major car or a mass app leading up to the central district now it's not really contemporary it's not really traditional it's big it fits as far as size it's neighbors but I don't know if it blends in too much I don't know I don't care for what's happened and I think seeing it here as opposed to the original seeing the emailed versions of these I think I agree with Mike that's a significant enough difference that maybe we need to see a little bit more and I think there are some other changes that have been discussed tonight that maybe does warrant the reopening of the special department I just want to make a point I actually don't like this point very much but I think it's important to make it and it might even be worth it if you gentlemen have a chance to take a look and see what am I talking about I did that before I came it was a nice day I just walked up and down mass app both sides of mass app just to take a look what are we really looking at because I understand your points they are very very good points the difficulty here is that maybe a neighbor is building but nobody else gets a chance to see it if you're in a car the setbacks of the capital building with a hard travel that comes out of the building beside it around here and here's my building you just can't see it look it's not that's not a good enough reason to not do everything that you're talking about in terms of making this but there is a reality here that I just want to point out that as a practical matter you have big and the building behind it is enormous so there's someone who lives in that building there's someone who lives in the one next door the one we took down the trees and there's the big capital square project so for me if I can just sorry but it's actually not about aesthetics it's about process and the question is does this go so far field that we need to reopen a special permit and so that's what I'm talking about if I'm a neighbor if I'm one of those people who are going to see it near the capital am I going to say what are they doing I went to the meeting this is what I saw this is what they approved and this has and frankly I'm assuming it wouldn't happen because it wasn't approved but condensers on the first floor outside there's no windows as I think Kim pointed out there's a weak front entrance these are all things this discussion that we're having it's a good discussion and frankly if you knew me and you knew the role I usually play on this board I don't take much of the way of aesthetics I want to make sure that it fits in with the neighborhood and everything else I could certainly get there with this my problem is this process I just think that it's too much to be fit into what the special condition was which is just providing the director with the building materials so this is not providing the director with the building materials that's what the special condition was this is something else and for my purposes I think we just need to reopen this special apartment if you want to go in this direction I understand the reasons why you want to do it I understand that those economic reasons make a ton of sense and frankly my guess is I'd probably get on board but from a process perspective I'm not comfortable saying that this lives up that this meets this special condition and the only way that I can move away from this special condition is if you open up the permit fine can I say one more thing I agree with you I think there's enough going on we're charged with special permit to look at mass ad protect mass ad if you want to use that and there's enough going on I agree with Mike that we want to see it here's my suggestion buy it all the way make that base the darker gray let the top be all white maybe the gray comes up and hits the tower and emphasize those like buy into your whole new aesthetic which is the opposite of what you had before go for it and make it distinctive present us all the details so we can see how they all go together in a brand new building which is what this is and then I think I'm also very happy to look at it doing this project but I think it does warrant a fresh look at this thing and you'll have it thank you very much appreciate it thank you thank you thank you moving on to discussion of ARB zoning article language to come up at the public hearing which has been moved to March 21 so I'm going to turn this over to Ted Field but also members of the AMAS Lauren we've had the language available for a while I'm happy to go through it quickly or we can just dive in I see four members three members sitting in the back and they had wanted to make a statement we can do it article by article do you want to do it that way sure just an overview just to be clear on this and on the other zoning bylaw discussion this is not a public hearing we'll not be taking comments from the public this evening using those for March 21 this is an overview to see where we are and if the board would like us to make any changes before the public hearing so that we're having the hearing on the thing that you want right article 6 is the major changes to the zoning bylaw that will allow mixed use it's not as simple as just doing it it has to be the bylaw has to be changed in a number of different places we started with definitions and in the definitions we also added some new industries artisanal fabrication and artistic creative production and building step back and mixed use so there's four changes to the definitions then we make changes to the establishment of district section which describes each of the business districts in most cases we're just adding a sentence that says mixed use is allowed or encouraged in the business district and in the industrial we're allowing mixed use but without residential which is something we want to discuss the multiple business changes to section 4.04 is just I think I've explained this in the past in the past bylaw we had something called mixed use but it wasn't what we're now calling the table of use regulations we add the three new categories and as you can see they're mostly by special permit mixed use is all by special permit and we had the conventional density regulations and we're looking at a little different in each of the districts but we sort of tried to follow what was allowed in that district what we are looking at on the higher side of density there for small four parcels and three thousand for smaller parcels I'm not going to go through all the different business districts on page 11 section 6.285 we're adding a new concept to the zoning bylaw a building step back so after the third story a floor as above the third story have to be pushed back seven and a half feet and a section from the street is of a less tall building and then the environmental design review section is being amended to include mixed use as a use that automatically will go before you and that is article 6 any comments from the MPIC Charlie we went over these changes in 2018 and do you want to come up to the table and say here for the duration of this discussion and we all know who you are but I just ask that you introduce yourselves I'm a co-chair with the master plan implementation committee and as I said the committee met on February 18 to review the proposed changes and we agreed with the changes that are being proposed as you know in the master plan we are trying to promote economic development to think that these changes are going to be positive in terms of promoting economic development in the zones where it's allowed at the meeting there was some discussion about changing mixed use allowing it industrial zones but we decided that it's not what the intent is to affect industrial zones and residential mixed use as part of mixed use in industrial zones but in our opinion we want to preserve industrial zones as industrial uses it just makes for a stronger economic base so with that like I said we went to a point by point and agreed with them that we recommend that allowing it to be adopted as stated okay thank you Charlie you guys were talking about you talked about massing and that type of thing as far as fate on some of the buildings and that type of thing you all felt comfortable with that in the implementation of some areas we do with the step back was that a big consideration I think there was a discussion about there should be a five foot step back yeah seven and a half foot step back after three stories okay I think I'll say I like the way that you've done the table where mixed use is on its own and you can kind of see it compared to the other things I think that's a much better way to be able to grasp it basically so I think that's really helpful for example you go to the three stories on the B1 and but the beat stays the same at 35 so essentially you know that's kind of nice so I agree with that that's essentially what I have for right now I don't know what else you may have I'll concur I like to change from the five foot step back to the seven and a half foot step back that's I think that's a good thing I would encourage you more just so that you have have enough decent space up there if you're going to set that five you're just going to put a little groove shaker of a deck out there but give it a little more and then you actually have a living space up there I think that's a good thing I have a question on the B1 on the front yard setback on page five on the mixed use you're maintaining the front yard setbacks at 20 and 10 that just falls in line with the other buildings that's the we're thinking we still want B1 to be a buffer zone between residential and heavier commercial uses so we're not trying to change that character of the B1 zone so we're keeping the setbacks the same for that reason what is not retail usually in residential like a dentist office so you're envisioning in those zones the mixed use would be not retail that's why the setback that way that's a good that's a very good retail space is not allowed in the district mixed use structures without retail space not allowed in the district that's all I have here where's the five-story allowed in these three B7 B3, B4 B3, B4, B5 which district business three is village business before is vehicular oriented businesses and B5 is major business so where is that on the right in the center B3 B4 is the light pink yeah B4 here here in spots B5 is here right in the south side of the center B3 is born north side of the center and over by the rail trailer and is there a size did you say of the building not height but it's not regulated by the overall square footed the height yeah anybody can write stories in that and capital square and B starlington that is B3 yes capital square right here I think it's great I think it's well done and I also mentioned there's another smaller B4 zone right on the side from Cambridge great thank you Charlie the next article is related to parking in multi-family residential and business zones so those tend to be a long massive broadway those are the main areas we are what we decided the approach we decided to take was to allow a reduction by special permit we discussed at the last meeting having no floor if you wanted to or needed to but then I think there was some uncertainty about whether that was the right approach so it came back this time with a proposal for 25% being the floor but your thoughts are about that the other parts of it are that you have to do transportation demand management plan in order to get that reduction and one other change at the very end on the the current bylaw allows you to go to 80% of the parking department in any zone by a special permit originally we had proposed taking that section out and replacing it with this allowing a reduction of 25% to 25% but it doesn't cover the the residential zones that are not multi-family residential so this allows still lets that in that zone you can still apply for special permit to go to 80% and we're not this isn't really intended for single and two family houses it's really intended for the exceptional you know right now you can do an educational use anywhere for instance educational and religious I think so say you had a church in a residential zone and they wanted to reduce the parking but 80% would allow them to do that 20% reduction versus 25% no versus 75% yeah much bigger but the you know the massive and Broadway sites have public transit in the center there's the public parking there's other ways to make up for it I think there might be a typo on the second page of the new in R0 okay did you get it and then on the new 807B um I guess it doesn't quite like the rest of the bylaw I think is where it sounds you almost want to say tour mixed use mixed use is too or more distinct you've already got the definition of mixed use I think all you want to say is for mixed use the first 3,000 square feet of non-residential space is exempt from parking I think that's all you have to put otherwise you're kind of putting a definition in there that's a little different than the one you have above so I think I'd say for mixed use not projects I don't think you'd even say projects for mixed use I think you go all the way down to you just say comma the first 3,000 square feet of non-residential parking I like the fact that there's a floor that makes from what I was hearing it sounds like that's what folks want regardless so I think other than those changes can get I only have one is touching base on that 25% on the floor how'd you guys come up with that number I mean let's say part of it is the stairs coming down you have to have the stairs and if it's mixed use it's going to have to be some sort of electrical water room or something where you can take care of the services for the fire department I don't think that's what the 25% is the 25% is the number of spaces that are required so the way that the bylaw works is you have this much space and this much space requires you to have 8 spaces under the current bylaw we can bring that down to 7 and that's 80% we can only go 80% of what's required so I should be able to do the math better than I can but if you've got 4,000 feet which requires 8 parking spots we right now under special permit can bring that down to 7 on our own just that's given, that power is given to us that's what parking requirements so then this says that we can go down to 2 we can go down to 2 parking spaces if they present if they present you've got to have the TDM you've got to have this, you've got to have that I was seeing a little different I think, yeah and I don't mean to cut you off but I think that's what the 25% was in respect of and the residential I think we wanted to be able to go to at least 1 space per unit right now the bylaw requires 2 and there's evidence for instance the legacy when they first opened they had a lot of demand for the parking but it's gone down and they say that now 1 is really adequate so that was where we started from to be able to cut the residential per unit when you're right on the bus line but this does go even further so by special permit? yeah, right with a plan with criteria any other questions? we agree with the proposed changes moving on article 8 is moving into the residential to change some of the definitions of and the dimensions that are required of basement from the basements can only be changing it from being 4 foot 3 inches above grade to 3 foot 6 inches 1 foot 6 inches 4 feet 6 inches and the the seller follows that one on the attics instead of 7 foot 3 at 7 feet this is in keeping with the building, the state building code so these are all small changes that will bring the dimensions down a little bit this hasn't changed since the last time we've discussed it I think I asked one earlier I think the fact that the 7 feet marries up to the state building code is an important and then the final one is article 9 and this one requires a greater percentage of usable open space on a lot which is the thing that will actually limit the size of the footprint of new homes being built it's a percentage of the gross floor area so instead of 30% right now that's required to go up to 40% and the R0 are one of our two discussions and again this proposed article has not changed since the last time I think we had some diagrams the last time Andy and Ted are working on types generated quite a few diagrams but they're going to work together on to try to find the best small number of them I think an important point to make is both how it would cut down on square footage but also how it would keep square footage I think what we're trying to do is find a middle ground here on some of the challenges that we have and I think this does it because as I remember the diagrams I think they were still good sized houses that are in line with what people would like today but at the same time kind of bring it down to a more human scale so I think the diagrams are going to be important I think when you're working on those diagrams if I could say I get them to everyone's going to test the envelope here so I bring them to how big it is that it's going to be and get the massing that people are going to see on some of these things to make sure that no one's surprised when we finally present so I do with them no comment I can read you so everyone was okay with the coordinate sample and then article 10 is the last has proposed two changes would limit the grade of a driveway to 15% except by special permit and the other change would allow two 10 foot driveways as well as one 20 foot driveways by right because of some of the developers that were here that night said that if they had the choice of doing too small they wouldn't always do the double driveway right and again this one has changed that's right okay nothing on this one I know I push for this last time under the single family with single family to R1 this would allow them to have two driveways on each side of the house right I just wanted to revisit that a little bit because that seems a little to me a little too much too much choppiness I can see it being two family or three family having two driveways to scale things down but when you already have one single family you know I don't know I just want to bring up the points see what everybody else thinks having one driveway one house may seem a little better than having two driveways but right now they can have a 20 foot driveway I understand that they had two of them but it would be like a bunch of single family houses and then a bunch of chopps all over the place on a single family status where it's that's the only thing I sort of thinking about a little bit and I'm just thinking how that's going to look going down the street I don't see what you guys think about that too that's the only thing I sort of bring up is a point well it's difficult because if they're allowed to have a 20 foot driveway now it doesn't seem fair to say they can't have two 10 foot driveways but they can have one 20 foot driveway if we're allowed two family houses to do that so I just don't know how you would make that distinction we don't really want them to have a 20 foot driveway well right now it's allowed to have a 20 foot driveway it's all residents right now and what we're offering as a change is that in the high density areas where it's R2, R3 break up the scale a little bit more we're changing it so that they have the ability to have two 10 foot driveways we're not we're not changing anything that's not already existing already can you say in R1 that you have only one per cut that would say they could only have one driveway which could be up to 20 feet is that 20 feet? is it 10 feet per car? I think it's a good point I'm actually it's a good point I think I have a 20 foot driveway it was made that way in 1932 I think I agree with you in principle but I don't know if I see it happening in practical where people go out of the way to build two separate 10 foot driveways 10 foot driveways is there another notation to curb cuts I'm sorry is the maximum 20 foot is the 24 foot radius the curve is 24 feet but the actual driveway width is 20 is there a number of curb cuts under one currently there's just one maximum what I'm saying is in R1 single family house with only one resident can you just limit to one curb cut as it is now we could take out single at the beginning of that sentence and just over to a four or two family or duplex to answer your early question can you say if you had a single family house and then all of a sudden you put in two curb cuts which could be a nice looped driveway so you don't have to back up and it just takes I'm just thinking the density that we have in town and the size of lots I just don't know if it's kind of something that we should worry about necessarily but I think if we take single out I'm kind of curious about that in the in the middle where it starts with a single driveway that makes more than one intersection a single being underlined there that covers the the loop there the arch my suggestions I think I think we're in agreement as a board to take out single family and leave the two curb cuts or the two drive leads to but then we take out R0 and R1 so you take out single and then R0 and R1 I think it does make sense it's a different condition you're trying to limit curb cuts in that case in the other case you're trying to make it more habitable in another way yeah no I agree I think it's smart change good anything else Charlie I think we would agree thank you quick discussion before we move on public hearing is now scheduled for March 21st and because of the timing we'll be voting on all of the proposed by-laws that night we can't continue to the next meeting as we usually do so be prepared to be here late that evening but staff and the MPIC will be doing some outreach education meetings to town meeting members and residents and the next item on the agenda is how those will take place so Laura the first thing we wanted to just let you know about and ask if you're available we've tentatively scheduled a forum on the zoning on the zoning articles for town meeting members in particular but they'll be open meetings for anyone on either Wednesday April 13th or Thursday April 14th and I just wanted to see what your schedules were we thought you could make those nights we have a preference for one or two I think you might get more people if you go to the 15th and 7th 14th but it might even be later oh it's the night before taxes are done yeah which which one's the plan statement Wednesday's the 13th I'm probably going to have a problem there's a good chance I'll have a problem with that and the community preservation on Wednesday we've got several Wednesday meetings I'm looking right now and I don't see it on my schedule it doesn't look like I go out that far right now but I've got a feeling it's going to we've been trying to do some Wednesdays so as not to I mean I have nothing right now but it could it could be on schedule I have a problem with the 13th I'm okay with the 14th well let's go with the 13th then sounds like 13th's a better all around so we just did a little quick brainstorming about what we want that to be a presentation about that we'll really start with the master plan and where this is all coming from and we'll start with a vision for how we see the MESF and the commercial areas changing and then go on to explain the zoning bylaw changes that we're proposing and then have a question and answer and we were thinking we could do it in just one night and not try to do like we did last year with the master plan where we went to four different schools and what do you think do you concur that we can do it in one one session for an educating 10 meeting members really just to familiarize them before they get to 10 meeting with the articles they're not overwhelmed by is it a one way discussion or is it a two way discussion we would have a question and answer I'm all for efficiency and not making people go to more meetings than they need to but I don't think you can do it in one I think you need three I think they need to be in different neighborhoods one in the central school perhaps all in one in East Arlington one in Heights close here at somebody's house where they come out and ask questions think about that see if we can find nights that work for the board members and maybe not maybe everyone doesn't come to every meeting which is what we did with the master plan we had like two staff and one board member at each meeting you can certainly spread out the workload also many of the precincts have precinct meetings right before 10 meeting and we're going to contact the precinct captains if I can find as many as I can find and see if we can get on their schedule toward the end of their meetings to just talk probably a much briefer discussion at that point is there something they can take a report there will be a tension or something that they can give their own constituents kind of their own district you mean on the 10 meeting members can you give to the resident yeah like they have their own meeting well that is what the precinct is I think we need to put together some sort of solution you're saying you're going to attend every single precinct meeting well they usually combine so not all of them have it so 10 and 12 will have one that's why I'm wondering what are your three big meetings and then you're also going to go to every single we're going to go to every single do you need both of those vehicles I'm just wondering because now you're going back into every single precinct meeting doing the same speech but not every precinct has a meeting okay maybe we can see how many precincts are having yeah how many we can cover well the precincts they're close but they take place after the election do you want to have a free schedule perhaps which shows when different meetings are taking place we could just tell the precinct captain that the meetings were happening and not have to go to the precinct as well but I think they're taking place then you have the three and then you don't have to go to they're deputized I don't think that works time and unless well they all have email lists and communication ability those meetings tend to be right before 10 meetings start and then there's the school vacation week before so like Sunday they could all be Sunday or more than one day so again we'd have to divide up I think we can accomplish what we need to accomplish because these are not easy to get through we've been through them so many times on our own and I think going in and trying to present it at a precinct meeting with all the other business that goes on may not be where people need it so I think if we can do two or three separate hearing forums of our own let the precinct leaders know ahead of time that these are happening and communicate it to the other people that these are going on and we'd like to see as many people as possible there that may accomplish that needs to be accomplished and not over tax volunteers and staff and maybe not let us get more information that they can take to their precinct meeting and say look this is what we heard exactly some may agree some may not some may want to present it but if they want to present it then that's what we want to their own precinct so if I might we're supposed to meet again on March 24 with the master plan implementation committee to further discuss the schedule as well as the kinds of materials that we would prepare and share with other people and include with recent members so that might be where we discuss what exactly is would be shareable and then could be shared among other people materials, draft materials and Andrew goes to those meetings so we'll have a cross that's a good idea I do agree with Andrew that the moment it's complicated and precinct meets to have an agenda a lot of other particles we discuss and probably not enough time so it's better to have a quick read yeah it might make sense to have someone there to answer questions that come up but not do a full blown right thank you and to the rest of the implementation committee thank you is how many zoning articles submitted by registered voters just update us as to what's taking place and what your articles propose I speak out of place here the other members of our committee well the article is basically about change since we were here with the fellow developers demanding double driveways don't destroy our business but basically we have seven articles the first one is another way to attempt to get at the two garage doors staring into the face is to require that they be backed behind the setback line which would be well you know it's a setback line so 25 in the hour 1 and hour 0 and 20 in the hour 2 if you look at the older built-in garages in houses that are a little more modest in dimension you'll see a lot of them are setback or alternatively they're on a hill so that it's really in the basement and the house itself is anyway this was an approach to getting at that my travels through our town talking to people for one thing that they all mention that they really hate was looking at those two garage doors and as you know they're proliferating to be part of the community the second one the 12 a fairly quest we go longest this one this is the exception for shallow lots in which instead of having to be 20 feet you can be 20% of the entire lot width and of course some of the lot is kind of triangle you should get an average lot width to something we didn't see it's not a biggie but we didn't see why that should apply to a lot that is a full 6,000 feet that's what's in the zone let them build a shower house if it's one of these little tiny lots I have three of them adjacent to my property where they have about the width of this table between the back door and my fence they should get a little exception okay article 13 is gross floor area definition basically what we're trying to do here is of course you have the gross floor area what we're trying to well one thing we do the same thing you did is drop that 7 feet to I mean 7, 3 and 7 feet and basically trying to capture within the gross floor area complication you know just about everything instead of having a whole long list of exceptions and this goes to as does your your usual open space requirement increase goes to trying to squeeze down the size of the building and and some of these seem to be kind of excessive dimensions that's what we're talking about article 14 is um this one this is to as you see would increase if you're putting in another building it's a 10 foot side yard in this house and you still have a 10 foot side yard but if that other building is right up to 10 feet then you've got to back off a bit and the idea is the point is that these new buildings are so big so much taller, wider deeper than the little house next door that give a little more breathing space now the um article 15 is really the I suppose the most important of what we can do as you know that the large addition we've talked about this before the large addition provision of the bylaw is gained on a very frequent basis by the the original foundation and the the two corner walls standing and basically what we're saying is you tear something down and build something new you get a special product and this would allow this means that the people who are in this neighborhood who live there not who are speculating there they get at least, they can't stop it but they get a say in what's going on they have a voice and as we say we're not trying, we're not saying you can't build a big house we're not governing aesthetics you want to build an ugly house but the people who live there can at least express their opinion and the zoning board can take that into effect when they make a decision and finally the oh no this isn't funny I'm sorry this is too much so two more things to remember a height calculation this again is something that you gentlemen must know has been a game a lot of buildings new buildings in this town they're basically our four stories they've got a basement much of which is at grade you can walk in and out of it and then they've got two stories and then they've got an attic which has so many dormers and stoke roofs and what not that it's basically another full story and our zoning board has two and a half stories you're trying to get at some of this by limiting the basement height what we're saying is and this thing the way it's measured now is from the grade before you start construction so you've got a grade like this and you say okay so you look 35 feet from here but what they do is cut it down to there so they can have this drive in quite good drive so we're saying it's 35 feet should be 35 feet go from the lowest point to the highest point and 35 feet seems to be a pretty we've looked at zoning bylaws in other communities seems to be a pretty widespread standard although I've seen a few that are lower let's just leave it at 35 let's just have a more honest measure 35 feet measured after you're done so they've got to come in with show what their plan is really going to be and the final one is again is the half story and we internally wrestled a lot about this I think I think everyone feels that this the so-called half story with all the dormers and whatnot that makes practically a full third or fourth story is kind of excessive and so but we couldn't get among ourselves we couldn't agree on exactly how to do it we looked at a lot of other bylaws in other communities and it doesn't look like anybody's got a really good handle on it or at least a handle that's easily comprehensible some people are talking about I don't know 4 on 10 or something like that I don't know what that means so basically we just tried to capture more things that would be included in where you measure the 7 foot height so we got a closet or a place where the air conditioning equipment is housed try to capture that all so the half story gets really more of a half story so that's basically where we are at and can you go back to article 16 for a second 16 on the height calculation can you just go through that as to where we're calculating from and how that's being from the current well maybe one of those with a side it's an old house but it's the garage's original on the side but it's a basement so because we're built into the hill so that's really I'm just trying to read this and frankly even I'm having trouble trying to figure out what I would do had I been building new because I think it's important for us to understand what it is that I mean if we diagram it out I think probably a diagram we use I think Mr. Loretty can probably explain this more clearly than I can that's the existing height definition we view this to some detail with staff right but you have we have an idea we want you to I don't want to confuse things but I think could you I think it's your is the garage referring to the low grade or is it at grade well I mean where it is it's at grade but if you look at the front of the house it's well below grade so because I have a four foot retaining wall all the way around my house on the street though you would drive straight and it's flat yes it's flat this is the type of garage that we've seen in a lot of the older houses yeah and I'm over in the heights so I'm over on New Corn Street everything in the heights yeah exactly we're like that's right but actually I mean I think we're looking at several different things here because there's different rules in five percent grade yeah and I looked at that too and it really didn't give much relief I don't think just a matter of could you jump in here and I guess you know the way it depends on the slope of your lot and if it doesn't exceed five percent then there's no change in the way that the building height is measured but okay 80% of my law everything other than the driveway is four feet above the driveway and the street so you're saying you might be measuring from the wall I don't know what I'm measuring from am I measuring from Newport Street or am I measuring from the back of my house right now it's the average curve average on a flat well unless the grade is five percent you measure from the curve line right the average curve line and where I live that's not uncommon I mean all of us on the other side of the street and it's perfectly flat or it's not flat but it's in the back half of his house in mine it's the front so everyone has kind of a four foot repair oh yeah okay I know a lot of that it's all over town right so well yeah and I think that's the issue unless so I guess what I request is given how common that is I guess I'm a little concerned with how you know this particular grade his house is this okay let's say this is the street right here this is the street right here and you get a person right here there's a little wall maybe that height how containing because I only have about a foot and a half so it comes across like this and say his it's not that tall it's like this right here so you drive in on one side of the street it's up here so down here is that yeah what I'm saying is the average grade is where at the 35 feet is measured right now oh okay so I take it from the bottom if you do what you're saying John then you're taking the final lowest grade and measuring 35 feet that's a problem for my neighbor right because I see what you're saying so this is it right now and I'm taking the 35 call that the average grade yeah call that the average grade I'm built into the hill you're saying I have to go from the front of the lowest point that's a little unusual where the wall is exposed well it's at the bottom to get to my front door you have to go up nine steps to get to my front lawn you have to get the five so the driveway is here yeah so the driveway no the driveway is all the way down here so you come around here that's the side so if you're looking at but on the front of the house it doesn't really matter in a way if you take average grade that allows you 35 feet and the average so you pick up a little bit at the low end so you can get into your garage but your house will be lower than 35 feet where it slopes up but you're changing it to be at the lowest point right shrinking the house down so even the floor is high on the back my house would be non-conforming in 1932 I mean it's you people usually go average grade one story building that's what I'm saying yeah how high is your house my house is high my house is high it's two and a half stories but is that 35 feet yeah I'm sure I don't know I don't know how I've never ruled that long I wouldn't hold it on my 36 foot ladder it makes it up to the gutters I guess but that's about it so I guess the point being I guess what I'm saying is is that this is fairly draconian for at least one side of the town I'm concerned with that so just by definition because frankly the funny part is the thing that you're concerned about isn't as much a concern where we are because you're looking at like a wall and a shrub and you know a nice stairway up so you're not going to get a garage going right there anyway so I guess I just suggest that maybe in your house maybe that might be a issue there are a lot of story it's certainly 35 feet it's a solid two and a half stories solid two and a half stories I wonder if that really is 35 are you from the garage probably from the garage you're over 35 you're over 35 I think I'm not over 35 from the base of mine from the lawn anyway I suggest that you see if you look at that house in spring street for example oh the one the new one that they built on the wrong the one where the cocaeras is sold yeah where we town meeting is the one that created that house we gave up the we gave up the street taking and they built two houses there have you seen that? only from the access road I've seen it from the access road close you'll see it's a four story building yeah it looks like I mentioned town meeting last year it looks like a small hotel we're trying to get at that somebody should just have a better way to do that we're we're ready yeah and I guess I guess my I shouldn't even be quiet I just wanted to understand what we were talking about and this was helpful so I appreciate that so that's I guess I guess that's where we are and finally make I know this isn't public hearing but one comment about your two driveways idea I'm I'm going to say it's public hearing it's coming in this way those driveways there are two driveways there ought to be a buffer zone between that driveway and the next guy's property that's where we built so it doesn't flow water into this property I mean one one is but have another sea of asphalt right at the other guy's property line I think that's kind of what we're doing good for you thank you thanks for the information thank you very much next is the Atwood House Mass Ab Mr. Warden is kind enough to let inspectional services know that there are some changes of foot there inspectional services is investigating it and now I have issued a citation good where we go from there they're the ones that have to do it are we all in that well so does CVS own no it's owned by the noise trust and CVS has a long term lease from the noise trust but it was part of the special permit housing corporation had a plan in my investigation to convert that into affordable housing put an L out the back if you looked at your special permit you'll see that there are reserved parking places in case they do that and then the noise people said we only have a 20 year lease or something wait a minute how can we put in all this money into it and it takes out at the end of 20 years so they didn't go forward so they just let the house sit there and sort of unravel for a long time big pressure getting cut along they finally did that now they've boarded it out only for two months now so they've had to issue a citation I have it here okay I had it sent to me I mean I look at it okay I heard from everybody to whom I wrote it except Mr. Byrne so well let's see okay well the permit should be reopened no it can be the noise family it used to be a car dealership called Hodgden noise and the noise family owns the whole and they sold they're leasing like 99 year lease to CVS okay I know I'm reading it right now the permit? if I may Mr. Shemin they need to look at the permit conditions because I don't think it can be torn down without your permission as the ARB by the terms of the special permit no request to move or demolish the house request but they have to make a request to you you are the controlling body and you're right John when wallets at this point they have to maintain it they can't that's why I quoted the specific terms of the agreement which probably not everybody remembers all the details let's get that special permit out and give it a copy to us so we can repair that it's quoted in the letter? yeah that part is but we're looking at another part that says what's the well I thought I quoted both those sections no in terms of the future of the house I have it right now do you? the application, the outward house will be retained on the site redevelopment of the house will require the amendment of this special permit any modification? yeah basically we didn't want them to even ask to demolish it within two months or two years but it doesn't say but it's been a year we were hoping that it would be maintained and then turned into housing right but nothing has happened with it since and now it's boarded up and something they're not allowed to maintain it can't not maintain it right so I think we do need to re-open well can we come in? can we let's talk about it so has staff gone and talked to the trustees to see whether they can have a conversation about plans etc and why we shouldn't be opening up the special permit to take care of this issue yeah I guess I haven't had that conversation with them I participated in conversations between the housing corporation and Jeffrey Noyce he really wasn't interested in doing anything with the property and how long ago was that? way back when? a couple years ago and it happened more than one second but it wasn't a great looking piece of property to begin with and now that it's boarded up it's an high store the boards are coming down but I think speaking for myself and not necessarily the chair of the board I think I would like to have them come in and explain to us what exactly their attention is with this property and it's vacant, it's a risk and several levels it's an high store as I've said there are conditions in the special permit that aren't being followed that haven't been followed since it was put in place which could affect the whole special permit which could affect the entire special permit as we've seen with other properties the citation will only go so far as a measure that's exactly right it shall remain in its present location reasonable and additional efforts to maintain its present condition to prevent any damage from elements or otherwise it doesn't be part of that permit I remember so I'll send you all copy the permit and we'll try to bring the noise in good thank you thank you both those are all aware I was remiss at the beginning of the meeting I should have introduced the new director Jenny Rae who will be helping us to look forward to that couple of times but tonight I asked Jenny to prepare an update on a status of all the committee for which we're responsible this will only take 5 minutes but it's a discussion we haven't had in a while there's been plenty of turnover on the board and it's just something that's worth discussing now so that we can start thinking about tackling some of these issues after this meeting right, so first of all thank you for the welcome I'm really delighted to be able to work with all of you I look forward to it also to have a great team of people who have obviously been doing lots of great work for a number of months and will continue to be working with us as we get through town meeting so you'll see all of us again and again for the next couple of months yes, we talked about having a quick update on two accounts, one is that a number of staff people from the department serve or serve various committees, serve on the committee or actually provide administrative support so that's part of this update and then also many of you serve as ARB members as a representative on a number of different committees so I've with staff help prepared this memo that basically summarizes one recent highlight or two recent highlights from the committee and then an upcoming meeting just to give you some information and background and if you are interested in participating going forward letting us know on the team we'd be happy to point you in that direction so I'm not going to go through everything in great detail, we thought we would actually focus on one of the committees which is the housing production plan advisory committee which is on the back page Laura has a handout related to that which will be coming back to the board probably in May maybe June for adoption so this one we thought was important to do a little spotlight on and then I think there's one more item on the agenda that will relate to the community preservation committee which is a letter from the conservation agent so we'll move back to that but there might be another update related to that committee as well but let me know if you have any questions about this update otherwise we were going to focus on this Laura I wanted to just take a minute to update you on the housing production plan which we started working on in October I think in August, last August you appointed a committee I think we had our first meeting with the consultants Jenny Jenny left that team, we joined this team and you got a cool couple of briefs and it's moving very quickly we got this grant that we have to send all the funds by June 30th so we really needed to move at a very rapid pace and Andrew was on that committee as well we had a forum in January that was January 2nd that was pretty well attended I'd say there were about 40 people there including Selectman Joe Cureau and State Rep Sean Garvely and it was kind of a visioning thing where people talked about like what would you really like to see in Arlington that you think is missing in terms of residential development these are some of the things that came up there was a surprising interest in housing and those kind of solutions where people have some kind of shared community land or even possibly a building people were interested in ways to connect people who are over housed with people who are looking for housing and the subject of the accessory apartments came out more than once and also there was a lot of interest in both mixed use and also building housing near services so near stores, near the library, near town hall industrial areas sorry I'll save that anyway there's another public forum in April 7th that's going to be focused on solutions strategies and recommendations so I think that one will be really interesting to see what the consultants have come up with in this first forum and I wanted to just it's important that you know what's going on because you as the planning board have to endorse this plan so when it's done we will bring you a draft plan which you can make comments on and then vote on then it goes to the select men and then finally it goes to the state for their acceptance it's adoption and approval recommendations as they come and if you're at all interested we'd love to have your participation in the strategy session on the 7th thank you and again this is just a quick overview this is another item that we will tackle and enforce after the meeting but his status of properties owned and managed by the Arlington redevelopment board the redevelopment board practically manages a number of properties and I would love to have a longer conversation about this at a future meeting and we can together look at sort of a status of each one of those properties profit and loss sort of looking at the revenues understanding a little bit about the leases understanding maybe a little bit about the tenants some of this might be a refresher to some of you some of you might not know anything about these details so I thought it would be good to have a conversation about it and also for you to understand and be engaged with the responsibilities that the board has related to those buildings and the management of them because there's important conversations going on right now that I feel your voice is needed to be a part of in some way I will channel that temporarily but imagining I know what you're going to say but in the future I would like to have a deeper conversation about it and I will certainly sort of right now items that are moving forward one is an RFP that we are working on for the central school it is in progress but not issued just yet and we're still working on issues with potential new tenants and you may or may not know there's potentially a very large space that's going to be vacated so we will need to secure and find a new tenant and the way that we do that is we go out to bid and process to then secure a new tenant or tenants depending upon who occupies the space so that's just a very quick overview but it will become back later on and I want to have a bigger conversation about it the second item is the Jefferson Cutter House which Ted actually has been spending a lot of energy other time other than master plan articles zoning articles on helping to do renovations for the Jefferson Cutter House and share your renovations with a mass historic grant matching talent funds MCDBG funds and that will be wrapped up actually by the end of June yes but again would like to get you on board with understanding what's happening and again understanding and just validating your role in that process so that was all that I wanted to introduce for this evening I'm glad to answer any questions or ask Ted or Laura to help answer questions I guess one thing on the Central Schools specifically with that potential large amount of space coming up and that and the thing has the town done a space analysis for their own requirements because it seems to me that you know it might be a good time to figure out what those might be in the back of my head and I don't know why I think this but somewhere along the way I thought that if you use the mass school funds basically that you couldn't have administrative offices in the school right now I know all the school offices are on the sixth floor of the high school so I guess I don't know why I think this but I remember reading somewhere along the way that if you use the mass building the mass school building the whole fund that administrative offices couldn't be part of that maybe it's just that it wouldn't be part of the funding and you'd have to cover that yourself or whatever else but I'd hate for us to kind of go into that whole process and have this whole process over here and not have kind of a space analysis between the schools and the town and to figure out what might be required so does that make some sense? I don't know I don't I guess I'm saying there isn't one but I don't know how formal it has to be but I think we should at least go back to the envelope on requirements and that type of thing just to I also don't know about the use of school building authority but that specifically what we're talking about here is we're working with the town manager's office on with the space and the RFP process as well we'll be looking at space needs for the town that was already part of the process it's going to be part of the process but I'm not sure that it's the kind of analysis that you're talking about I'm not sure I was thinking it was the hugely formal the one thing I know is that if we if we went into a lease for the space a long term lease for the space and only a year or two later requiring town space I think we would not we have done enough on our own to make sure that that isn't the case I guess I'd be a little bit concerned and we'll bring those concerns to the town manager thank you so a future meeting we'll talk in greater detail approval of meeting minutes from the last two the only thing I had so on the Jan 28 minutes we got literally one comment on each in the first paragraph of the actual minutes at the very last sentence the chairman opened the floor to discussion I don't think you open the whole floor to discussion I think the chairman opened the topic for discussion just because the whole floor wasn't open and then on the fifth one there's just a hang around town hall over here it was over at the senior center the rest is fine it's just that was a hang around I didn't see anything else in those that gave me pause so that was it that was it that was it I'll move to approve the January 28 and February 1st minutes of these small corrections second I'll in favor we received two pieces of correspondence this interim period and one was discussed earlier from John Warden regarding the 21 Mass Ave we also received a letter from the conservation commission for a letter of support for the spypond edge protection and erosion control project I'll turn that over to Steph and I know as much I probably know as much as Mel so the community preservation committee relatively newly formed I don't know the exact date of formation but now in the process of reviewing applications that have been submitted by a number of groups one of them was from the conservation commission for this particular project and I think that you'll see a lot of these types of letters moving forward which is basically a letter of support for their project to the community preservation committee so board to board type of support of course Mike also sits on that committee and so I don't know if he's one of the people who's reviewing this particular project or not yeah I've seen this project I've seen the application it's a good project in fact and what they can do is give you a rundown of the different projects if you wanted to stick with this letter first and then maybe a little more on that this is just from Cory Beckwith who's the conservation administrator who provided me with some details about the project if you had any questions about the type of restoration they'd like to do spypond where they would utilize CPA funds in order to do that conservation work restoration protection and erosion specifically so that the request is if you would write a letter of support and I think they would like to have that by March 17 which is why it's on your agenda this evening because they are doing each entity who's applied for these funds is going before the committee I'm actually certain that they will want it before March 16th they're presenting on the 16th we need to take a vote we need to ask some of the draft letter to draft the letter do you want to vote to support vote to support and authorize a chair which if you're after the sign strange part here well, yeah I guess a little disappointed with the letter because does it have cost in here not on the letter no, we're all in here so that's actually a supplemental that she gave to me it's not the formal application I'm sorry, I didn't bring that this is just a letter I have to ask this question but you said we're going to be getting a lot of these letters we're going to be asked to support so I think before I'm sorry, but I don't think you will because the application is already in and with the applications not in this round, in future rounds absolutely in the future I think the board will be asked to support every project out there and I think before we can necessarily support a project as a board I think we need to have more than a request we need to know exactly what's being asked for we need to know what kind of cost we're supporting we need to know a little bit more about the project and I'm not saying we should say no to this request necessarily but we're looking at all of these CPC funds that come in, maybe we want to choose projects that are a little more suited to our own mission as a board I agree I agree and I think it's hard to recommend or whatever else without knowing all of the other ones and the cost of this one there's a lot of letters nice and yeah if money weren't an object we'd do it all we'd do it all exactly but unfortunately money is an object so my own view is is I don't know whether it's smart for them to ask I don't know whether I'm and it's not and I don't mean for it to sound like we're shooting this down it's a great project but I don't think we can be on with supporting everything that comes across because it'll be the weak in our the ones we do choose to support or we'll support things that may not be completely consistent with our own mission and our own agenda I think on based on the letter I'm not comfortable like you know putting in a letter of support having read the application I would support it that's kind of what my other half is the thing is I'd like to know a little bit more well right and I think that's and maybe that's what we should talk about what we should talk about maybe is a report back on the different projects and do we want to throw our weight behind any of them you know specifically the only reason I'm bringing it up is now to make it perfectly clear I think one of the conservation commission who's watching this is that this is only because this is the first time this request has come up in terms of the project itself that's in front of us but I think anything going forward we want to know at least want to have the opportunity to ask a few questions about what's being asked for right I think there's that you know and once again just to back up on a little bit of history on CBA I mean we started in October actually in October November timeframe which put us way behind the A-ball as far as getting projects in we needed to get plan we needed to get an application we needed to do all these things and the way that the application will work in the future is there'll be a two step process there'll be a preliminary application and then there'll be a final application and in between that preliminary and final the idea is for those folks to go out and get different committees tell their story and get their support so when they put the final application originally this year because it's such a rush we can only do a final application right out of the gate and so there ended up being nine different projects that we'll put into the CBA so so this is one of those projects and you know the things that the CBA is concerned with aren't necessarily the things that this board would be concerned with such as is it to give CBA funds to this we may not care about that and never do that analysis it's kind of like we think it's good let's recommend it even though CBA funds might not be appropriate we shouldn't necessarily care that's kind of the CBA's job not ours anyway so I can kind of go over those projects if people are curious or we can talk about this one whatever you want to do but I think I'm in agreement in this short truncated period I don't know that it makes sense for us to recommend it in this particular year we have the list out the projects that have been applications that have been submitted are the town of Arlington historic assessment of municipal bills and that's the historic commission that's put that one in with the help of the town I believe the historic preservation of the Jason Russell house so that's one on the historical commission as well funding for a new roof for the historic preservation actually looked at that one very closely so the way that the committee works there are nine committee members actually and there were nine projects kind of interesting so we all took two to read and comment on very closely and then we all kind of skim the rest and everything else so that's one of the ones that I happen to look at it's a good little project stabilization of the Wittemore-Robbins carriage house that's got some issues with it 20 Westminster this is actually a really big project it's the one that we talked about I don't think I was here for that meeting but you wrote a letter over to ZBA on that project so they're seeking a good amount of money over a million dollars on that project from ZBA? yes you haven't seen that one? well I saw it from the other side from the ZBA one point two pretty early on the Kimbell Farmer House also that's the one that we talked about the one that was made into three they're making it into three units the Arlington Housing Authority Life and Skills Building and Drake Village so that's a really interesting project it's it's sort of in Drake Village I guess it's taking one of the buildings and making it into an education and life skills and opening up where it currently is into more housing I believe I think it has a double effect doesn't it? the Life and Skills is actually a monotony manner sorry so it moves over there and then they make that they figured that out yeah I think we were concerned we were concerned about that so it's a Drake Village so it's a Drake Village portion of it okay thanks and then the Robbins Farm Park Field and the ADA Innovation this is a big open space and recreation project to take all of the Robbins Farm fields irrigate them new sod, new fields that type of thing take the basketball court that's on the little rise in the bag, tear that concrete up out of that and put a new surface on that as well as some historical statues and that type of thing describing the old Robbins Mansion that was right up there as well as making the different parts of the park ADA accessible so a really nice project and frankly it's kind of why Arlingtonians I think put the CPA into place in that it would otherwise be the capital budget and now we get to be able to use the CPA funds for it as well and then the garden over there also making that ADA accessible and that's also a nice one because the friends of Robbins Farm Park is doing quite a bit of funding themselves on it so the notion is when you have a group like that we're doing so much to be able to kind of support them in what their commission is as well and finally the Spipon protection and erosion control which is what you have in front of you which is a really interesting project as well in this project so those are the ones I would think that in the future the person on the CPA would come before us and maybe we take a good hour to go through them and discuss them and that type of thing right now we get our heads down so we are actually going to more formally come before the different boards and I don't think the ARB was on the list because it's more about the money this year so frankly it's getting in front of the finance committee and the capital planning committee and talk to them about the different projects as well but if there's anything that anyone wants more information on or anything else that's obviously why I'm over there so okay No that's helpful, sorry Drowned on there for a little while No that's fine So I think we will respectfully decline the board to support the request of the conservation commission I have to deliver that message on Thursday We think it's a good project We think it's a really good project I will explain to them why the conversation we had So new business if any I really would like to commend every member of the master plan implementation committee for the work they've done getting zoning bylaw amendments to us in the format they're in Charlie and everybody else on that committee has put in an amazing amount of time Ted Fields has put in an insane amount of time Laura Wiener has put in an insane amount of time and they both deserve a huge debt of gratitude And Joey And Joey Lesko I didn't see you Wendy I'm sorry Especially with the short staff there and they deserve our thanks for the work they put in So thank you all Those to appreciate it Any other new business Schedule going forward March 21st is our public hearing What's the What's the What's the quorum need for the public hearing Right now I have a conflict at least for half of the meeting until probably 30 I'm trying to get out of it It's a tough one for me to get out of frankly so I'm hoping to but I'm not exactly sure I'm hoping it cancels eventually but I'm probably not in control is the only problem there so I will try to make it over I think we'll be there late Yeah and I guess we can talk about that I just want to make folks aware of that Well we will be we will be voting that night and then at the beginning of April 4th we will start to discuss strategy for outreach and presentations down there so we have well we we sort of tentatively have these meetings here April 4th and the 11th when does the town meeting begin April 25th so it's really just whether or not you want to be on April 4th and the 11th Monday and between the 11th and the 20th is Patriots Day we will for example you may have a special special curfew to ensure that that would be April 4th you just mentioned that that would be April 4th to potentially do the public here goes and then we'll have to see if it depends on what it gets to us that's up to you anyway and what about the outward house I would like to do that open that up yet right we're going to send around the apartment and then we're going to bring him in that's not the same as having a public hearing and opening up the panel I would suggest not opening it up opening it up is a little I almost feel like a shot across the bow before I don't see the need to open it up the teeth are they're not maintaining it what we need to let them know there's a risk that it will be he's got what he wants already yeah he does he's got his CVS yeah but he's not maintaining he's not following the special I don't know that's a good question but let's get him in here to talk about it because that's a lawyer's thing yeah I'll think of one so so what is your pleasure do you want to meet on the 4th and the 11th or how would you like to start for that well I think you're going to have to you are going to have to break up the presentation yeah that's a lot of that's a lot typically in town meeting we split up the redevelopment board articles presentation and anything we really aren't that attached to we give to Andy so true so true I couldn't help myself I'm ready to go we won't talk about specifics town meeting is a full contact sport when it comes to zoning I've been cremated yes you have anyway so I think that's my only concern it kind of depends if we're not doing anything else on April 4th then we can do that and I think we need to meet the 4th and the 11th we all have to be at town meeting anyway the history there as we come in we meet for 45 minutes and then continue over to town meeting the 25th is a meeting but that's really just perfect given the fact that there will be at least well there will be a special permit and then there may be another contentious hearing on the outward house plus putting these up I think we do need to meet on both of those dates just because we can't cancel the 11th yeah exactly if we get through the 4th then we can always cancel the 11th plan to be here all of those nights we're on March March 21st is it? so this is the 21st of the year next month? yeah we've never been this early ready for a hearing very nice good job as it turns out the hearing is very late now that is what I have to that's true yeah okay with that I'll make a motion to adjourn second thank you