 Good morning, good afternoon, good evening, depending wherever you are in the world. My name is Anthony Hobley. I am the co-executive director of the Mission Possible Partnership and an executive fellow at the World Economic Forum. On behalf of both the World Economic Forum and the Mission Possible Partnership, I would like to welcome everyone to this virtual fireside chat with industry leaders on Net Zero Steel. This Net Zero Steel session is part of the climate breakthroughs, the road to COP26 and beyond. The forum is proud to co-host with the COP26 High-Level Climate Champions, the COP26 president and our Mission Possible partners. The Race to Zero breakthroughs is a campaign launched at the Davos Agenda in 2021 in January by the High-Level Champions for Climate Action and it provides a comprehensive detailed and actionable roadmap for achieving Net Zero through wholesale systems change, actually something Nigel Toppin and I discussed on video earlier this week, but across nearly 30 wholesale sectors of the global economy. Now six months from COP26, this climate breakthroughs event is going to explore what true transformational change looks like during this meeting, we will focus on steel and I really do encourage you to join the sessions on hydrogen and shipping later, we will look at the same issue from different perspectives. I'm pleased to introduce Nigel Toppin, a good friend and longtime companion on this journey, our High-Level Climate Action Champion for the COP26 negotiations, who I invite to share his opening remarks and kick off this meeting over to you Nigel. It's delighted to be joining the session with you and the panelists and I'm really looking forward to learning from the panelists and in fact, for this whole day being about how do we reach these Race to Zero breakthroughs, I think that you talked about being a fellow travel companion, I think this is one of the exciting things here is we're learning how to do industrial transformation with a combination of collaboration and competition and so the whole idea of the Race to Zero is to bring together this growing ecosystem of the most important companies, cities, investors, banks, think tanks and civil society with this single unifying goal to implement the top level ambition of the Paris Agreement getting to zero in the 40s but halving collectively by 2030 as the science demands. We seem to have really passed the tipping point in terms of agreement that we need scientifically rigorous net zero commitments and I think the Mission Possible Partnership and the UN Climate Action Pathways together are really helping to translate those near-term actions into specific pathways and that's sure we're going to hear about that from the companies in the panel today. I think the thing that we're trying to do is, as you say, accelerate these tipping points and so what we've tried to do is define these breakthroughs as intermediate systemic goals which I think for three functions they help magnify the impact of individual actions when individual actors can demonstrate that their individual pathway is aligned with those collective tipping points. I think they also help drive this radical collaboration that we've talked about so much and I think that the Mission Possible Platform and with all of the partners and all the different collaborations by sector and the hundreds of companies involved really embodies and then thirdly they really allow us to focus on the near-term and when we all know that it's easy to say what five CEOs down the road are going to deliver in 2050 it's much harder and more meaningful and necessary to say what are we going to do in the next five and ten years? How are we allocating CAPEX now? What are we focusing on from an innovation point of view? So I'm also delighted that today we're updating the climate action pathways for industry which have been created by the UN Marrakesh partnership which includes all of these collaborations so it's not original research it's pulling together the best and really trying to converge. I think we're now able to increasingly show how actors from within and across systems can play their part in accelerating particularly across these that the heavy industry sectors that you're working on ever since the great first report that Faustino team pulled together at the Energy Transitions Commission. I think the real exciting thing is now is that we see momentum building you know I talk all the time about exponential change the nature of industrial transformations we have over 71% of global economy covered by net zero commitments and we're seeing I think we can say we passed an inflection point there. For me the interesting thing of course is that it's not just about the steel industry but the steel industry plays its crucial role in the global economy it's about the supply side you know with we see a lot of moves towards net zero in the built environment which of course are big I think it's the number one use of steel and in the automotive sector. I remember you know a few years ago working with Mercedes and they made their net zero 2039 commitment and one of the conversations in the company immediately was oh so that means we're going to have to buy net zero steel by 2039. So it'd be interesting to hear from the panel about how those have that combination of policy supply side innovation demand side pull and finance all interconnected and of course you know just a few weeks ago with Mark Carney we launched this massive coalition on finance the Glasgow financial alliance for net zero that's the rest of zero club for finance 160 firms so far with 70 trillion dollars of assets so really key to see how these all play out with this this crucial industry that's the heart of the world economy the most I know it's the most widely used material I bought quite a lot of steel when I was working in the automotive industry making brake pads 40% of the components were steel based but of course we know this is a huge challenge because at the moment steel making is one of the the biggest emitters of CO2 so we can say that's really hard or we can say this is exciting because it's a challenge that requires reimagining the science of steel making I know that's what you're all doing so we're going to need to rely on some really interesting breakthroughs in things like renewable hydrogen and I know that we have a panel later today about hydrogen we also going to need more collaboration across value chains and across industry we really thrilled to see that already there's more than 15 low carbon steel projects planned by 2030 and the breakthrough that we set was to see at least 20 commercial scale facilities up running by 2030 so it'd be great to hear more about that we of course need to to be able to get to Glasgow and tell the story to the world not just that we've agreed on the pathway but that action is in place capital is flowing so and we need to hear what more do other members of that system what the policy makers need to do to provide the supportive frameworks what do suppliers need to do to retool their factories and what can buyers do to help on the on the demand side so I'm really delighted that we're going to be hearing from Additia Mittal from Arsenal Mittal on the role of producers and from Elizabeth Pinton from Shell on the importance of cross-sexual collaboration and I shall be putting a lot of focus on that how do you collaborate on the demand side so Anthony thank you so much for inviting me really keen to see what we can unlock in this conversation and let me hand back to you to run the panel thank you wonderful thank you so much Nigel and if you want to know more about Nigel and my thoughts and you know our discussion on systems change check out the video we did together and the blog which is on the forum website and the Mission Possible Partnership website now I'm I'm absolutely delighted to introduce the moderator of today's meeting Faustine Dalasile the director at the Energy Transitions Commission and I'm delighted even more delighted to say my co-executive director of the Mission Possible Partnership I think we'd like to think of ourselves as the dream team Faustine is also leading the Mission Possible Partnership's net zero steel initiative and is therefore the absolutely the ideal person to guide the following conversation Faustine the floor is yours thanks a lot Anthony it's a pleasure to be with you today and it's a pleasure to welcome to this fireside chat Additia Mittal the chief executive officer of Arsenal Mittal and Elizabeth Pinton who is the executive vice president for renewables and energy solutions at Shell so I'm really looking forward to the next half an hour or so as you probably know if you've followed past sessions there is a sly go in place for you to ask questions as we go through the discussion today we might not get to all questions that you ask through sly go but we'll do our best to pick up on some key themes and your questions also feed into the work that we're doing with the Mission Possible Partnership ahead of COP26 now it's already introduced the topic today very well so I'd be very brief as we all know steel represents 7 to 8 percent of global emissions from the energy system today and we need to bring that to net zero by mid-century to be in line with an IPCC 1.5 scenario the technologies to do that are on the horizon both in terms of increasing the use of scraps through recycling steel but also through the deployment of new zero carbon production technologies for all base primary steel production but we have a challenge of pace if those technologies are going to be deployed at scale given the lifetime of steel assets we need those technologies to be bought to market and to be as cheap as possible before 2030 so the next decade is absolutely crucial if we want to unlock change in the steel sector and that's why we've set up the net zero steel initiative to really try unlock value chain collaboration to make it happen because as Nigel was saying earlier our strong belief is that it takes a full value change to decarbonize the hard-to-date sector it takes collaboration between the steel manufacturers and their environments their energy providers, their buyers, their finance players but also governments to really create a favorable environment for investment and that's the discussion that I want to have today with Aditya and Elisabeth is to better understand how do we make that magic happen over the next few years so I turn to you first Aditya thanks again for being with us today you need one of the biggest steel producers worldwide Arsenal retail has made very ambitious commitments for 2015 but also for 2013 my initial question to you is how are you going to achieve those goals that you've set out for your company that what's your role in the transition and what help do you expect from players around you in your value chain fantastic so good morning everyone who's joining us and thank you Faustine thank you Nigel for your opening remarks thank you to the web for organizing this I'm actually very thrilled to be part of this panel because I'm very excited about the prospects of net zero steel I think Faustine talked about it Nigel alluded to the bad news is that steel is responsible for seven to eight percent of global emissions so it's a huge issue when you look at the whole climate change discussion I think the good news maybe the okay news is that even in spite of being responsible for seven to eight percent of global emissions it is a material of choice because it has the lowest carbon footprint of any other material today so we're starting with relative carbon footprint multiple times lower than aluminium or other carbon based materials it's infinitely recyclable so when you look at plastics what plastics want to do in 20 years steel can do today so you're starting with a good base and I think the really good news and I think that's where we're having this panel is that we have the pathway to net zero steel right and I think Faustine mentioned that there are technology solutions I think fundamentally there are three pathways the first is a direct reduced iron which is natural gas based today so instead of using coal you use natural gas you can now substitute that with hydrogen we have a pilot facility in Hamburg actually where we're experimenting with hydrogen in DRI and obviously that dramatically reduces the carbon footprint we can also deploy CCU technologies where we can capture the carbon convert it into advanced biofuels we have a project in Belgium where we're doing that and we can produce advanced biofuels and then obviously the R&D project and not for this decade is direct electrolysis so I'll keep direct electrolysis discussion to the side because I think just with DRI natural gas or DRI hydrogen and with CCU we can achieve net zero steel the other positive is the market so I know Nigel talked about Daimler and when he worked with brake pad manufacturers so if he was there at those companies today they would tell them that Arsram et al actually can supply them certified green steel which has a carbon footprint of zero so scope three emissions of zero we're the first steel company to do that and we we launched it we thought we'd ask the market and see what the responses and the response has been tremendous so every customer wants some of it we're sold out which is great we have more more product coming in next year but what is interesting is when we germ market is they're talking to their own customers and trying to get a sense because we're a little bit of our customers are to meet right so the warehouse manufacturer wants to be the e-tailers and understand do we want now green warehouses if they sell it if we sell it to an automotive how much will a customer pay for a green car so that's also very positive I think in terms of the ecosystem we have Shell on the panel they are a market leader and we have good collaboration on how we can use hydrogen or other or electricity to continue to to decarbonize the area which is lacking is the level playing field or the regulatory environment so we have the technology capability very excited by the market prospects I think there's a good ecosystem of industry and other participants coming together to find a holistic solution but our concern is that if there's no level playing field what do we do with all of these ideas and technology solutions because if we implemented increase our CAPEX cost and OPEX cost and then we get undercut by other producers where there's no cost of CO2 and their emissions are actually higher than ours today then we we're just hollowing out the European steel industry or the developed steel industry so for us we can accelerate we can go very fast we actually have lots of plans not only in Europe but also in North America to decarbonize our process at remarkable speed germinated the market but what we need is regulatory support to to make us fund that transition in an economic basis so so I think I think we will get there the discussions we're having with various governments I see a lot of appetite the other small thing I will put in this and maybe it's a lot of information but I think worth putting out there is that the cost to decarbonize steel is much cheaper than the cost to decarbonize any other sector or at least we looked at a few sectors so transportation chemicals plastics because for 150 million or 300 million depending on the geography is you can permanently reduce one million ton of CO2 emissions and so when we talk to government they get very excited by that because the amount of capital that's going into transportation is a multiple of that a renewable sector is still a multiple of that so there's an appetite to achieve this at not crazy cost levels at reasonable cost levels and so I do think that eventually we will make the regulatory balance or achieve the regulatory balance which will allow us to decarbonize so very excited I think we're on the right path but clearly to accelerate we need more support thanks a lot Aditya and there's a lot to unpack in what you've just said we'll come back to it in a moment I first want to welcome Elisabeth to our discussion as well. Elisabeth you will present Shell on this panel there Shell has put out a net zero target by 2050 you've also very recently been addressed by a Dutch court suggesting that maybe you weren't going fast enough in your decarbonization pathway I'd love to hear from you but what are the steps that you're taking to reach your target to net zero emissions by 2050 how fast do you think you can go in in the 2020s and what's the role of your collaboration with your clients the likes of Arsalaam now on that journey I thank you Faustine and again and Anthony and Nigel and Aditya it's just a pleasure to be part of this panel today I'm going to start with the last part of your question which is about collaboration it is exactly being able to partner with global leading companies such as Aasar Metall and actually deliver because you can't as an energy company you can't accelerate without somewhere to sell your green solutions and so it's this meeting together between supply and demand balance that helps us really accelerate so on the renewable side many many global big brands that you recognize whether it's Microsoft or Amazon on the big super scalar cloud companies all the way through other industrial companies who've signed up for the RE 100 those commitments to go to 100% renewables then open the door for big renewables at scale because solar has been happening for a long time but it was really a big company a big industrial company like Shell has a specialization in scale and so it's precisely this alignment where you see policy so for example building on what Aditya said it's essential that we have carbon pricing so you can have differentiation and that you can also have a level playing field and also allow innovation through technology neutrality I'm from California so I will use California as an example is that we actually led the world and I was had the privilege of being part of that is establishing the world's first carbon market when we pass a landmark legislation of AB 32 back in the early 2000s now everybody said oh no no no that was going to potentially kill the economy and drive out industry from California well at that time California was the eighth largest economy in the world after we led with AB 32 the renewable portfolio standard and landmark climate legislation lo and behold California passed the UK and became the fifth largest GDP in the world proving as a fact that you can actually set very aggressive carbon goals and environmental and renewable targets etc and actually create huge uplift for your economy if you align the right balance and so it's all about that supply-demand balance so for example we have a partnership with Toyota with Shell in California and we just set the world's record for the amount of hydrogen provided to transportation vehicles across light duty and trucks in the world so that acceleration is possible when you create an ecosystem that aligns that because we're listed companies we're commercial entities and so we have to be able you can produce green products if you have nowhere to go you can't do it and that is the story of hydrogen for example i'm in my previous company back in the day in that early 2000s i actually installed the world's first hydrogen fueling station on the planet but there was no there were no vehicles to you know to take the hydrogen so so that's a great story because of there was policy incentive we as an energy company could provide the supply and and produce it but there were no vehicles to buy it and so then when we learned that lesson and we went into partnership with Toyota we aligned the supply and demand so that as they brought the Mirai vehicles into into the market we were producing more and then you build the and then you have economic transformation so it goes back to something that Nigel said that's so important for systems change you need the government support to create an ecosystem that enables all the actors to align and do the right thing commercially create that pull through and you also need to make sure that you have that timing so that you can actually begin to build and transform your economy and California is an example of how you can do that with great gdp result thanks a lot for this and that connects very well with what Aditya was saying around really mobilizing customers to get interested and buy that green steel zero carbon steel that you were talking about Aditya I want to turn back to you we really see that there is a full chain of off-take agreements basically that is required all the way from the end consumer to your automotive manufacturer for instance who would have to commit and buy new forms of steel from from a natural metal and then a natural metal would have a demand for new forms of energy from a shell this whole chain that we've described in several reports including one launch today is difficult to put in place and some of that can be done on a voluntary basis which you were saying earlier those companies that currently buy zero carbon steel I suppose are doing it on a voluntary basis but at some point you need to shift to regulatory years so how do you see that balance how far can we go with those voluntary agreements and when do you need a policy making to actually take off to create a bigger market at the biggest scale sure thank you for a question and thank you Elizabeth for all your remarks you're absolutely right today it's on a voluntary basis I think it's experimental we have very limited quantities it's certified as being net zero and clearly our customers are trying to understand what is their customers interest and an offtake so you're absolutely right in terms of my my thought process or how we see it developing I think the first news is that we have been actually surprised by the level of interest so we do not think this early on when as you mentioned there's no regulatory support or policy support on green steel there's no car marketing has seen that this is green steel yet the customer is already experimenting and this goes back to Nigel's point I think that we're reaching a tipping point and there is a movement to accelerate so I think it's all positive based on the conversations we are having we can see that there will be policy support especially for infrastructure projects which are government funded or government support that they would be requiring some sort of low carbon steel or certified green steel or recycled renewable steel and and all of those products I think eventually I look at this as if you're talking about cars you know in the olden days when you bought a car the aircon was an option right so at some point in time you know a more sustainable car would be like an option and some people would pay an extra for it but in due course that will become standardized right so I'm not going to sit here and predict when that would be but I think that will become standardized and and I think the policy policy support would accelerate civilization uh so uh so I think the free market is working clearly it will only last with some measure policy support and obviously with the final consumer demand one of the measures that is being discussed currently in Europe and in other regions to establish that level playing field is a carbon border adjustment and I'd be keen to hear me uh Aditya what you think about as an Elizabeth whether you think that this type of tool would also help the company line shell in in their transition Aditya maybe first okay sure uh so yeah absolutely I think the key the key messages level playing field whether that's a carbon border adjustment uh or funding uh support in the European level as we transition to a uniform ETS system globally that's all up for discussion right today there's a carbon price i.e a carbon cost to producing steel in Europe that needs to be rectified uh and maybe the solution is that others have a similar ETS system that's absolutely fine then you don't need a border adjustment but till we we arrive at that point either our carbon costs are reinvested in our decarbonization initiatives so at least then we feel economically we are whole uh and if that's not happening then clearly you need some sort of border support because I think we all know what happens if there is no level playing field right our costs are high higher we have the technology solution but then the steel will be produced in a country which has a worse carbon footprint exported to Europe again more emissions so at the end of the day less steel in in Europe and actually more global emissions so no one wins in such a scenario so creating the level playing field will be will be critical it will allow us to continue to innovate because we have tremendous r&d capability uh i mean you would think the steel industry doesn't have r&d but we have a lot of r&d we actually spend 300 million dollars a year on research and development so there's a lot of technology solutions and product solutions that we can provide the market but for that there has to be a level playing field and the same question to you how does a border carbon adjustment fit into the border policy framework that you would need to progress and if i can squeeze a second question after that one of the key drivers to reduce the cost also for our solar material and others is to reduce the cost of the energy input the renewable energy renewable power renewable hydrogen etc so how can you as an energy producer also help those energy intensive industries access lower cost renewable energy to produce green products at a lower cost as well i thank you festin just so you know for the technical folks at the world economic forum it's very difficult to hear you so i'm leaning in trying to capture what you said but it's i don't know if it's on my computer end or for on your end but very very difficult to hear and kind of coming in and out so just maybe the folks in the background can do a sound check so i i think i'm going to start with the the question on carbon one of the things that shell has been discussing for quite a while in our policy framework is important for carbon pricing and that builds into what audits said so eloquently about a level playing field because we need to make sure if you think about europe and the context of regional economies you need to create virtuous systems that enable the decarbonization at pace and acceleration and and really believe that the positive incentives are what's going to dry the drive the pull through both from the demand in the supply side it's very very important and that goes back to why i use the california example as well because it created that positive ecosystem that then drives the change by having economic levers that actually are incentives of the right behavior in the right direction so that companies can actually make an economic and then the economics begin to work and so then you see for example coal is a great example is that coal has left the power system because of economics and so it is you know renewables actually are driving the spark spread there and market pricing in many many different markets now which is a great thing and so that's how it shows you when you have that alignment actually the free market works in the right direction which is quite exciting which goes to your question about lower price of energy so one of the things that's really important is actually creating a certainty of an investment path because when you think about large assets at scale apologies that's at my end my neighbor has started construction we're welcome to working from home in covid so apologies to everyone i hope you can still hear me in any case what's really important is actually that alignment of investment certainty because at scale projects whether it's a big offshore wind farm or a green hydrogen electrolyzer at scale like shell has invested with our hkn wind farm here in the netherlands and then what we're doing with the port of Rotterdam that's a very very large system those are those are like that collectively will be an over five billion dollar plus investment in capital by shell and that single project and so that these are magnitudes of millions of dollars which billions of dollars rather which is where a big balance sheet company like shell comes in because we have to move on scale and that's where investment certainty and vehicles from the government policy come into effect because you build a huge wind farm you know 700 800 megawatts or larger big electrolyzers 200 megawatts or larger these are big industrial projects that have lifetime of 20 plus you know 30 40 years of useful life and therefore you want to need that investment certainty of that path and then that in other words then begins to create the the price efficiency as those projects come in line and it goes back to also that again that systems effect in order to do that we also have to make sure that you have a transmission network in europe that can take on more electrons into the grid we need to make sure that we're also creating policy this is something great that the netherlands in germany has done collectively is saying yeah we can reutilize gas infrastructure for hydrogen injection that also then begins to lower the cost so that we're taking the assets that we have and transforming them in a positive matter for systems effect and so these are the things that come together that begin to the lower the cost that when adet and i talk about working together we can say yeah we can actually invest together we can lower the cost and provide that mutual certainty on that pathway to green hydrogen in this case green steel thank you very much elizabeth and i'm sorry i have apparently lost visual but hopefully you can still hear me or even hear me better than before i'd love to turn back to aditya to better understand how those collaborations can be put in place with your energy providers to really help with innovation we know that there's a number of new technologies that need to be developed hydrogen based carbon capture based you mentioned earlier and for to bring primary steel technologies to market how are you accelerating that innovation process as a steel manufacturer yeah thank you fostin i think we're talking to people like elizabeth we are accelerating our process because we're actually figuring out how can we use hydrogen in our existing processes so we have a pilot in in germany in hamburg where we want to we are using hydrogen today and understand what it does to the properties of steel but just coming back to the broader point on energy hydrogen and ccs i think when we look at the energy space today renewable price is attractive so it's not unattractive right because we get it at the same price as other forms of electricity the the whole drive to bring down renewable cost is really to make hydrogen much more competitive because at today's cost of power hydrogen is very expensive at least for our our business and so that's why this whole discussion can we bring hydrogen down to one and a half euro per kilo relative to maybe three to four euros where it's sitting today based on the energy cost and that would basically mean energy costs have to reduce by 70% or something like that so that is that is clearly a path that we're moving forward and that's why all of elizabeth's points were excellent how can we use existing infrastructure how can we provide policy certainty to make that happen and we've seen in the past that as you invest and you learn you develop ip you develop capability and costs come down nevertheless i think we should not ignore the fact that in case costs remain elevated for a period of time that there is a very strong role of CCU and CCS and elizabeth talked about this as well and we see it in our business where we can use natural gas existing renewable power but with CCU and CCS we can achieve the same net zero outcome without necessarily relying on hydrogen so if hydrogen prices come down fantastic that's a solution that we have but in case it takes longer there should also be policy support technology support r&d attention to different ccu and and ccs projects so we're doing both as i mentioned we're using hydrogen but as i mentioned earlier in my opening remarks we also have a very interesting ccu project in belgium where we take the off gases and we actually have bacteria microbes which eat the off gases and convert it into advanced bio biofuels thanks a lot to dipia and we are slowly but surely heading towards the end of this session elizabeth before we do a closing round i want to ask you what do you expect can be done by governments to also help you through that transition and how do you also expect the finance players to play into steal the carbonization story and more broadly the carbonization of heavy industry thank you fustin it's good to hear you and see you back yes so the the role of finance is absolutely essential because one of the it's not just about capital actually there's plenty of capital that is hungry to move into the net zero of space which is fantastic so that's the other portion of collaboration is how do we partnership how do we have partners with banks other infra funds and so forth who are interested in infrastructure and these green and net zero projects so that's very very exciting but i think the really really important and tough aspect of finance that is really needed is this area of sustainability finance that looks at risk because ultimately from a commercial perspective if i have to run to my rds board and get approval for a project i've got an answer to a commercial irr return and part of how you factor in your irr return is you have to you have to manage risk and you want your risk and return aligned and so it's the fundamentals of finance that then now as we think about the energy transition and acceleration how do we actually look at risk differently and therefore to give the confidence to be to be actually drive higher returns in areas such as renewables that currently have lower return because they're viewed as low risk and so and so we have to again look for the levers that we can create virtuous pathways for acceleration and that role of sustainable finance is absolutely essential bloomberg no energy finance talks about the missing money problem around renewables and everything to do with green green hydrogen etc and that is also the case if you get into aviation fuel sustainable aviation fuel biofuels etc and so this is where policy and finance need to come together and so Nigel it was wonderful to hear about your work on that as well and in the with the mission possible because it's essential to really drive all of those factors coming together so that you can make investment decisions that are going to deliver commercial returns because again to make the moves that we need to do in the next decade that are really going to have that impact and materiality for society we need to do big scale so it's it's right now the exciting thing technology is proven at the smaller scale but to make the big scale leaps that we need we need to have that financial lever lining up so that these projects really deliver commercial returns and in turn shareholder value which then creates the virtuous circle for societal benefit thank you very much Elizabeth i'm going to ask both of you the same last question to close this discussion COP26 is on the horizon in less than six months time we are collectively through the net zero still initiative and with our colleagues from from the COP26 presidency and the race to dearer high-level champions working to unlock that scale as you just described Elizabeth by COP so i'd love to hear from you in a couple of sentences to close this discussion how do you think we can really unlock that change by COP what needs to happen for the steel sector decarbonisation to be accelerated before the end of the year or at least the ingredients to be in place for an acceleration in the following month we'll start with you Elizabeth and we'll close with Edithia i thank you so much Vasidine the key is breaking across silos so while it's very very important for financial institutions and banks to collaborate together and while it's very important to have different sectors collaborate together part of what is so exciting about today's conversation and where solution and innovation will happen is bringing commercial leaders such as ourselves together with the financial leaders together with policymakers we have to break down the previous silos because if you look at how policy and regulation is made whether it's in the financial sector or the energy sector or steel etc it's all done in these narrow silos and one of the best learnings from innovation out of Silicon Valley is that it's at the edge where things converge is where the magic happens so my recommendation before COP is bring us together across let's break down the silos because that way someone like myself who's highly commercial I can be with the right you know financial people without it with our customers we're pulling it because it is exactly systems supply chain and breaking down those silos for real collaboration that's going to move the needle and the policymakers have to get out of their silos as well and that's how we can help be very practical thank you Edithia same question to you thank you Faustine I think Elizabeth captured a lot of the spirit I guess my two comments first of all I appreciate Nigel has participated in the panel so I hope you learned something about the steel business and the steel industry and hopefully that helps our industry as we decarbonize through COP26 so I really thank him for his time and his participation and and I think we talked about this earlier in the panel for the steel industry we have the technology solutions we think we will have ready made market our customers we are very excited about the prospects what we really need is policy support so we need a level playing field what form that comes I mean I leave to Nigel and the rest of the teams but it maybe it's a carbon border adjustment maybe it's funding the transition or maybe it's some sort of ETS system on a global basis but as soon as that is in place then innovation will kick in people are energized already but there'll be even more energized to find the solutions and I think we have the full acceleration of the decarbonization of steel sector so anyway I know he probably had a lot of his plate already so we're just adding to it but I appreciate his support and his participation thank you very much to both we are going to close this discussion here there will be much more to be said but I think the directions you've laid out are well noted both by Nigel who I see nodding on my screen as well as ourselves as Mission Possible partnership to inform the work that we will be doing with you and with a lot of other players in the steel value chain over the coming months so thanks again for joining us today and apologies to the audience for the technical glitches we had today it's all parts of working from home from different locations in the world so hopefully you'll still have had an opportunity to follow this very good discussion looking forward to the other panels this afternoon and looking forward to speaking to all of you too thank you very much