 This might be news to you, but we're not suffering from obesity. Actually, the problem is much more complicated. We don't have enough muscle. It turns out obesity is the smoke. The fire is lack of muscle. When you look at the studies on building muscle, it's so protective that even if you're obese and you build some muscle, you have better protective effects than just losing body fat. It turns out the problem isn't what we thought it was. I love this. Was this inspired from our home girl? Yes, from Dr. Lyon. Great conversation. You know what made me also think about this? We have that sodium conversation often, and they had those studies showing how sodium is connected to heart disease and strokes and all that stuff. They just huge meta-analysis, and they found that sodium is not connected to any of those things. What it was was when people cut sodium out, what they often did is cut out heavily processed foods. So it just came along for the ride type of deal. That made me think about our conversation with Dr. Gabrielle Lyon. I remember some of the studies that I looked up when I wrote The Resistance Training Revolution, and it showed significant improvements in insulin sensitivity and severely obese people who just built muscle. They didn't even lose weight. Yeah, you've talked about that before. There's a significant minority, it's not a majority, but a significant minority of people who get heart disease and strokes who aren't obese at all. And then there's that myth that obese people have more muscle in their body, but we know that they actually suffer from sarcopenia, which is muscle loss. Right. So it's actually, and then again, one more thing to add, strength, testing your strength will predict all-cause mortality better than almost any of your single metric. So it's the lack of muscle that's causing the problem. B.C. is like the symptom, right? Yes. But at the same point, yeah, we're looking at it wrong. We need more muscle to be more protective and fight against all these kinds of things. We're guilty. I actually, you know, after talking to her, and then hearing you say that right now, it's kind of crazy that we actually didn't think to position it that way in the first place. Yeah. Since we already positioned things like where we talk about adding food to someone's diet, right? Like that's already something that's... We were on the right track. Right. Like what we were trying to accomplish is exactly in line with that. And shame on us for not thinking to communicate it that way because it's such a better way to communicate it instead of telling people, oh, you're fat, you need to lose weight. Or obesity is such a problem. Let's just, let's build some muscle. Because that's what we do with our clients. And so if we can change the narrative around, it's less about being too fat and it's more about being under muscle weight. It's way more of a clear focus of like, that's the problem. Let's like just completely go in that direction to try and solve it. Well, we've said this many times. Muscle is expensive tissue, burns a lot of calories. So faster metabolism. It's a storage vessel for glycogen. What does glycogen come from? Carbohydrates and sugar. So you want to improve insulin sensitivity. You want to get better utilization of sugars. Then build some muscle. Now you have some place to put it. Muscle also puts out anti-inflammatory chemicals. It's good for your brain. It protects you against cancer. It's extremely anti-cancer to have muscle. Now of course, I know what people are like, well, what about bodybuilders? Look, stop looking at the extremes. Any extreme physical pursuit is always, you're always trading longevity. We're talking about the average person. The average person today, look, if you look at studies now, a 26-year-old male today has the grip strength of a 65-year-old in 1986, something like that. Like, how weak have we gotten where a 20-something-year-old is as strong as a 60-something-year-old 35 years ago? It's insane. That loss of muscle, it's fueling the epidemic with Alzheimer's and dementia because we know that building muscle, the process of building muscle, seems to have some of the most profound effects there. It helps with, like I said, insulin sensitivity, so diabetes. It speeds up your metabolism, so it makes what you eat less damaging because you could burn off the calories. It's, again, anti-cancer. We've been going about this all wrong. And then when you look at the old narrative, which is lose weight, lose weight, when you look at the data, people, when they try to lose weight by just cutting calories, and then if they throw what people tend to do as cardio at it, almost half the weight is muscle they lose. So they end up, they do a little better, but then they rebound, or they do a little better, but they can be doing a lot better if they just focused on the right things. We figured this out in our career that let's get this person strong, let's get them to build muscle, then the fat loss becomes much easier. But it really, it's more like, we see smoke, we think the smoke is the problem. There's a fire that everybody's ignoring. It just parallels our Western approach to pretty much everything. It's like, we see a problem, let's fix it as quick as possible instead of looking at the root. And maybe it's gonna take a bit more work to get you to a place where it's a sustainable, healthier place. But we've always taken that immediate pill, something to provide relief, or lower the symptoms immediately. Have you seen recent charts on that? We've been talking about this for years now. This has been a conversation that we've had more than once. And what I haven't seen, which would be really interesting is, okay, you have that, you said what, from the 60s? A woman, or a woman in her 60s since when? In what year? 1986, I believe. So 65-year-old 1986 has the grip strength of like a 27. Okay, there you go. So if you were to graph that, are we still on a steady decline? Or is it starting to slow up? Like we're getting, we're getting as weak as you almost possibly can by going there. We're getting a lot weaker. Okay, so that support that I think is really fascinating is, obviously that's already dramatic as it is, and it's, is it keeping up with that pace? Because if that's the case, within five years it'll already be dramatic again. Well, I mean, muscle is adaptive. It's extremely adaptive. Because it's expensive tissue, your body will get rid of it if it doesn't think it needs it. So I'll ask you a question. Do you think kids are as active today as they were 20 years ago? Of course not. Or 10 years ago? Of course not. They're not telling their body, we need strength, we need muscle. So they're weaker. They're just weaker. And then Dr. Gabrielle Lyne even explained muscle quality. She's like, you can have muscle, but it can also be bad quality. Just like when you have a ribeye versus a filet, fit, strong muscle looks very different. And I didn't know this. She illuminated this, which is, we don't have good ways to measure quality muscle. Or we do, but we don't use them. Even dexa sands don't show this. They just show lean body mass, which can be water, glycogen, fat with fatty deposits in it. And we won't necessarily see that. So we're looking in the wrong place. I mean, to put it plainly, if we had a magic wand, and I could either make everybody in America lose 10 pounds of body fat, or gain 10 pounds of muscle. Be far better off gain 10 pounds of muscle. It would be way more effective across the board. 10 pound muscle gain versus a 10 pound fat loss. We would see health metrics dramatically. Especially if you consider the percentage of people that actually lose 10 pounds, how much is muscle and how much is fat. So think of it like that even. If you could put 10 pounds of muscle on somebody, or even lose just 20 pounds on the scale, I'd still say you're still better off considering that most people that drop weight. Like eight of it when we muscle. Yeah, they drop just as much as muscle on the way, which would potentially make them a weaker, just as fat version of themselves by even losing 10 pounds on the scale. So. There's another metric that they've used even, because the hand grip put test is the easiest one. And really, there's nothing special about hand strength. It's just a proxy for overall. It's just a recruitment, yeah. It's basically will relate to overall body strength. But another one that they've done is, can you get up off the floor without having to hold on to something. Which is also another way to show overall body strength. And they predict all cause mortality with that as well. It's really crazy, but when you think about it, the way that we approached our training in the back half of our career when we knew what we were doing, that's exactly what we all figured out on our own. Because, you know, for 10 years I trained people, I was just, oh man, it was back and forth up and down. I can't figure this out. What's going on? Is it their lack of discipline? Is it my approach? What's going on? The back half, I was like, I'm going to get them strong. I'm going to get them to build muscle, and then everything else fell into place. I would have clients who would lose no weight on the scale go get a check up, come back and be like, oh my God, all these numbers are so much better, and I'm still overweight. How's this possible? I'm like, well, I mean, you built muscle, and I think that that's probably making the biggest impact. Pretty wild. Today's program giveaway is the Super Bundle. That's a huge bundle of programs. You can win it, but you have to enter. Here's how you enter. Leave a comment under this video, in the first 24 hours that we drop it. Subscribe to this channel and turn on notifications. If you win, we'll let you know in the comment section. Hey, we also have a sale going on, which ends in one day. You have one day left to take advantage of the sale. Map symmetry, half off. RGB bundle, half off. If you're interested, click on the link on the top of the description below. All right, back to the show. Anyway, back to the sodium one. I got to read you guys that meta-analysis, because that one sparked the conversation I just had, but check this out. They did a meta-analysis of seven studies, which involved over 6,000 subjects. This was the American Journal of Hypertension. No evidence that cutting salt and take reduces the risk of heart attacks, strokes, or death in people with normal or high blood pressure. In the Journal of American Medical Association, they reported that the less sodium that study subjects excreted in the urine, which is a measure of prior consumption, so people who had less sodium had a greater risk of dying from heart disease. That one we totally messed up. Completely, yeah. Which is why I think a company like Element, Element T is crushing right now. I think people are... They had no idea they were deficient. They feel better. They're eating this 1,000 milligrams of sodium in their water, and they're like, oh my God, I feel so much better. What the hell's going on here? Well, especially our population of people, right? The people that listen to this podcast. Yeah, if you eat fast food all day. Yeah, if you listen to this podcast, most likely you're at least attempting to be a healthier person and eat whole food since that's something that we present all the time. There's a high-likely chance that you're probably under-consuming. And even if you're not under, you might not be able to be a healthier person, but you would benefit from it doubling where it's currently at because you're eating whole foods. It's so funny because it explains like keto food, like we mentioned. Some of these symptoms of when you alter your diet and remove a lot of these prepackaged foods and all that kind of stuff that has a ton of preservatives and salt in them. For me, it was the headaches. Supplementing with salt and a lot of the headaches. That's how I know. We ran out of element tea because they hadn't shipped us. We just got some, but we didn't have any for a few. So, Jessica and I haven't been drinking it. I can tell. Oh, yeah, dude. I actually purposefully got some potato chips and some stuff with sodium because otherwise we don't eat processed food that much. And then we also eat relatively low carb. Both of us could feel the difference. I'm like, I don't feel as much energy and she gets headaches like you. So we did that, boom, zapped it, got rid of it right away. Anyway, I've been waiting to bring this up. I got something to bring up. Bro, this is almost like, I feel like, you know how they said there was that conspiracy theory that the Large Hadron Collider pushed us into another dimension. Now we're in a weird alternate universe. It kind of bumped us into an alternate universe. I feel like it sometimes. I don't know if Adam even knows who this is. Did you guys see who Ukraine made their ambassador of their schooling system? Yeah. I did not see this. Do you know her name is Marina? How do you say her last name? Abramovic? Ukraine did? Marina Abramovic. Can you look up Marina Abramovic and then just click on images? Okay, so that's all you got to do? That makes me nervous right now. Spirit cooking in Hollywood. She's a famous... She's an artist, but she's a Satanist. Yeah. She's tried to deny... She's from Ukraine and a Satanist. What does she have to do with Hollywood? She's here. She throws parties for the Hollywood... They'll eat like food off of models and things and people. Spirit cooking is with blood, semen, and I don't know what else. Do you see human liquids and things to people at the parties? Yeah, and apparently she will take celebrities and convert them into their weird religion. She's weird. She did... I think she got famous by doing this one... When she was younger, I want to say in the 70s where she did this art display where she had a sign and it said, do anything you want to me. Isn't that what she did? That was her, right? And people lined up and they slowly got worse and worse to where people were cutting her skin, stripping the clothes off of her and she just stood there. That's how she became famous through that art. People would like... Remind me, what is the position that we're giving her? Not us. Ukraine made her the ambassador of their schools. Of their schools? Come on, dude. Yeah, dude. What's happening? When they talk about the Satanic cabal of Hollywood or the elites or the pedophile rings and stuff, she's always implicated. She's always like Pizza Gate, remember that? She's always a part of it and Ukraine literally just made ties to Aleister Crowley and a lot of this past on kind of stuff from that. If you're just a normal parent that your kid goes to school over there. That's the ambassador for the school. How freaked out are you, dude? It's just so like, come on, dude. What's going on, dude? How do you reconcile that? How do you explain that and not be somewhat conspiratorial? Doug, put spirit cooking after her name. Just so you guys can see. The part that scares me about this, too, this is not like... Because you know, okay, obviously... And we're giving them billions of dollars. To make things, you know, exaggerate things. This is like... It's not like she did one time or this is like everything you see right now that Doug's pulling up is all connected to this shit. Yeah, bro. What the... She's weird, bro. It's just disturbing, it's disturbing visual. She calls herself an artist all she wants, but I mean, it's just like mutilated human beings. There was this conspiracy theory before this happened. Are those bloody limbs that she had? Legs? A lot of the symbolism and stuff of like music videos and all that like she's helped... Yeah, and like very... Okay, look at that picture right there with the circle of people around her. That's an actual dinner with celebrities. Do you see that right there? Yeah, and they're like sort of pretending to eat off this person. No, actually eat their body parts. Body parts. So, she's had dinners with some of the most famous, most powerful people. Okay, like politicians, celebrities, and they'll do weird shit. Anyway, there was this conspiracy theory that... Look at that dinner with the head on it. There was a conspiracy theory that Ukraine was like the center of the worldwide sex trafficking network, especially with children. They said, this is what Ukraine is, whatever. And everybody's like, that's stupid conspiracy theory. And then she's the ambassador for the schools. What? Yeah, I mean, and this is where like people at the audience are just going to be like, well, I'm out. Look it up. But it's real, so now explain it to me. Explain it to me the thought process of these leaders of putting somebody in that kind of position. Why would they do that? Where is their incentive? She's connected to everybody. It's absurd. And we are giving them a lot of money. Doug, look up, just click on an article on spirit cooking so we can look at the ingredients. I got an interesting point on this. Whenever you guys bring up these types of topics, I try to find different media outlets that cover it. And it was very hard to find. It was kind of hidden in my opinion, but in some places that I did find it like the telegraph and some others that are more well known. I went to the page and the page was removed. Wow. Wow. Scrubbing the internet now. Does that tell you the ingredients there, Doug? I believe so. Mix fresh milk from the breast with fresh milk of the sperm. Drink on earthquake nights. Some of the other ones let's see here. With a sharp knife cut deeply into the middle finger of the left hand eat the pain. What? Andrew, it's been a long time since you've been to one of these, right? Yeah. No comment. He's like, we're going to stay down this with conspiracy then I'm going to bring it up. So I wanted to bring something on. Doug, you'll like this one actually. It's not like there. Doug's like, damn it. I try and bring good conspiracy stuff that's related to health and fitness. I got you right here. I actually heard this. I saw it on Rob Wolf's page. Just a small Google search just a little small fact check. Not like a deep, because I'd rather do it with you guys and actually have the discussion because I thought it was really interesting. I shared that documentary recently the 100 years one the blue zone one. I didn't know that most of that stuff has become like discredited because there is and you could Google blue zone fraud. Oh, because of the pensions? Yes. I've heard of this. I did not know this. A lot of people lied about their ages so they could get pensions. They're not really 100. They're not really 100. Like 85. So, yes. So, supposedly there's quite a bit of this in these areas. And so I guess it discredits a lot of all the stuff that everybody starts to tout about the blue zone. I'll tell you what, if you go I think that they are very healthy in some of these places for sure in their lifestyle. I don't think there's like a silver bullet. It's because they eat this purple potato or whatever. No, of course not, but still the age is the most important part of this book. I know they caught the one, I don't know if it was a tribe or whatever that didn't really keep good track. That was the whole thing. It was kind of shaky whether or not there really were like 100 or not. Well, look at the Seventh-day Adventists. They have a long life. They're in Loma Linda, California. You have to look at what they have in common. There isn't a silver bullet. What do they all have in common? They all don't overeat. They all move a lot. They have really tight. I know, but Sal, I mean, agreed, agreed, agreed, but all that goes out the window if they're all 80. If it's proving that they live wrong and they're all 80. Yeah, yeah, so what are we doing? So it's not really, we're just highlighting groups of people. It doesn't matter what they have in common because the main thing that is supposed to make them special is how long they live Well, you still have higher life expectancy in areas that do stuff like that. So actually, okay, so better, to that point Sal, I saw Rob Wolf talking to it briefly and he was talking about the things that you can find in Hong Kong. Yes. And he says that is like real living data right now. Hong Kong has a very long life. You know the highest meat consumption in the world for capital? That's what he's talking about. So because what you have right here is like with the Blue Zone stuff you'll have somebody who's a pescatarian trying cherry-picked stuff. You'll have a vegan trying cherry-picked stuff and then attached to like, oh, see these people that live long and that's why. Or the wine in Sardinia because it's so high. Right, right, so you have all these bias groups that try and grab one of the Blue Zones to justify whatever, you know, eating habits that they are ideology that they subscribe to. And he was like basically a lot of that stuff is faulty from just because it's been because of the people lying about their age. So he says look at Hong Kong and what's going on there. He goes that's probably the most accurate real-time data when it comes to like longevity and the way they eat. And so that was the example. Yeah, they have the highest meat consumption per capita in the world is Hong Kong. What is that? What is the meat consumption Hong Kong per capita dog and then maybe we can compare that to the U.S.? I had no idea. I didn't know they ate that much meat in Hong Kong. I didn't either. I wouldn't have guessed that. That's why I thought that was interesting. But I did read about that a while ago. I feel threatened by that somehow. Well, I know listen these countries they offer these pensions and then they report you have to report your birthday and it's kind of weird like so I have family members whose birthday on their birth certificate is different than their actual birthday because you were born at home you didn't bring the baby to go register them for like days so it's like they had two birthdays. This is like my dad's generation. It wasn't even that long ago. Equivalent to two pieces of ten ounce steak a day? Wow. Bro, that's like legit. They ate a lot. Are they really active over there? They must be. That is four times the UK's average daily consumption. Wow. That's crazy. That's a big serving. You know that Milton Friedman talked a lot about Hong Kong because it was one of the the best examples of what happens when a place opens up because Hong Kong all they have is a port. They don't have any natural resources or anything else. And they went full on at one point one of the freest markets in the world. Hong Kong went from third world country to superpower. Well, we have that in a very short period of time. We have that same example now in India, right? That's what India was not Well, they're still not super free market but they're much more and they're definitely lifting themselves up. Oh, I thought they were. They're not free market. No, they're free market. They're considered democratic and free market but Hong Kong went real like Oh, I thought that same thing. Chris Warren and Arthur Brooks' pursuit They're liberalizing or freeing up their markets for sure. Much more than they were, let's say 30 years ago. And that's made a big difference. But yeah, like I said, with Hong Kong it went from literally third world to superpower in a very, very short period of time. They have no natural resources. All they have is a port, kind of cool. But that's cool about the meat. I had no idea. I kind of want to go there now. You've been there, right, Doug? I have been there. Have you heard of their coffin apartments? No. Are they the ones that move and stuff? No, they're just like little rooms. You just sleep in it? Yes, and they're very, very tiny. So either there or China has the ones that are these apartments that are like minimalist apartments and like the middle wall slides out, turns into a bedroom and then they pull down. You can rearrange the whole room. Is that because it's so expensive to live there? The bedroom? It's one of the most expensive places in the world to live. But I mean, this is like a room. You see this picture? I mean, you live in an actual box. Wow. Oh, look, and he's laying down. You can't even stand up. Yeah, I mean, it's just like ridiculous. What? That's real? That's real. There's hundreds of thousands of people who live in little places like that. That's the perfect thing about it. Yeah, it's giving me the heebies. You know what? You just don't go to your room until you go to bed, I guess. Yeah, that's it. You work, you do whatever your job is. You just sit outside and like, okay, guys, I'm going to bed. And then you go lay down. Everything is just in like a little closet, essentially. Oh, look at that one, Justin. These guys don't work in there. It'll be your room right there. What's the average rent in Hong Kong? You guys want to guess? What do you think is more expensive, Hong Kong than Hong Kong? Really? I don't know. People living like that, I would hope it's too expensive. Yeah, but also remember that like Silicon Valley, the average income in California is like one of the highest in the world, too. So you figure like, I would still guess Silicon Valley. I'm going to go with Silicon Valley. Still being more expensive. The average monthly for studio apartment in Hong Kong is $1,800. Yeah, now go to the Bay Area. It's $5,000. Bay Area is more than that. I mean, it's still a lot. Look at that though, for a two bedroom apartment. What it is, is it's that high, and then I would imagine like the medium income is lower over there, right? So I would say that to have as high of prices as Silicon Valley with a medium income. Yeah, it's super inflated out here for sure. Wow. That's a lot though. That's for people. So no wonder they have coffin apartments. Are you following, since we're talking about Yeah, as much as $1,800, I believe. For a coffin? No way dude. Yeah, I'm not sure. The equivalent fee is $4,200 Hong Kong dollars a month. Since we're talking about the economy are you following what's going on with the strikes? Oh yeah, $2,400 a month for one of these little boxes. What? Now that's worse. That's way worse than Silicon Valley. You bet your date over. You basically have to have sex. How do I fit in here and just lay on me? Netflix and see what happens. I mean, you know it's a closed deal though if you're going to come home, you know what I'm saying? It's like game over. She's going to, she's getting in my bed. You know what I'm saying? Hey, you want to come over? Hey, you want to come over to my house? I might have rolled over. She says, yeah, she's like, whoa, it's done. It's a deal dude. Where am I going to sit? We'll get creative. Doug, are you paying attention to what's going on with the cars? With the strike? Oh, that's right. You guys understand that this They're going to make Tesla explode. This is going to have massive implications on our economy. You're talking about the amount of jobs that are on strike right now and what that's going to do to the car market and what the car market is to our economy. This is going to shake things up, I think, more than a lot of people realize. And it's going to make companies like Tesla explode. Because Tesla is not union. So I'm completely oblivious what's happening. The three biggest, the largest American automakers, GMC, Chrysler, and Ford. This is the first time in history, by the way. All three have gone on strike at the same time. Did you see what they're requesting? Yeah, they want four-day work weeks. They want a 36% increase over four years. Like five weeks of vacation. They want a guaranteed pension. Basically, let's make ourselves non-competitive. In the temporary, this is going to drive things up again. So if you thought the car thing was crazy and beginning of COVID, we're going to see that. Talk about cutting off your nose despite your face, though. These guys need to... So here's what's going to happen. This is my prediction. And you're exactly where my head is at, Sal, is what you're going to do is you're going to force the arm of these three massive companies to go, okay, they want all these things. I guess we're going to have to double and triple down on automation. And they're going to put more money into AI to supplement those... It'll be worth the cost. And you're making it worth it because of this much of a demand. Yeah, because here's how they do them. It's very simple math. We pay workers this much. It's going to cost us this big amount to automate everything. But then if we do that over the course of 30 years where this person is going to be employed plus a guaranteed pension, it's going to save us a lot of money, and you know what? This is the thing that I worry about is that the U.S. automakers are going to become uncompetitive, start to tank. Who do you think is going to bail them out? Exactly. Well, the next question is, will we see in the first time in history where the government steps into a union debate like that? Like they have the... The government breaks up the union? Or comes in and backs up the union. And supposedly, Biden's a big supporter of unions, right? So there's a possibility that he could come in and enforce something, which normally government would stay out of any sort of... How they force it? I know that, but what I mean is, okay, so they force... Or they're going to shut them down? To pay more. Ford then raises up prices. Ford's like, we're losing money. We're not competitive against Toyota, Honda, whatever. Ford's like, hey, government, then they bail out. You have to, if the government makes you do that, right? That's the insurance, right? The way that they're going to get bailed out is very easy for a politician to say, we need to step in and save 300,000 jobs. So the more and more... Okay, I have my friends. I have people like my buddy, Chris Nagivi, who's like, him and I talk all the time about this stuff, and he's always telling me, it's coming, it's coming, right? I'm in the camp now, and if you go back far enough on the show, you heard me, like, oh, yeah, this thing's going to come down soon. I don't know... I don't know if we're... I think we're actually at an unprecedented time. I think that things are shifting, and we'll talk about this 30, 40 years from now, as the time when most people could still afford a car, or a lot of people still could afford a house, and that's just not going to be a thing. We're already moving this direction of the younger generation, Ubers. They're licensed because they're just... It's convenient to Uber and do that. They're going to put the car prices so... You're going to have to be rich to own a car, you're going to be rich to own a house, and I think that this idea that it's just... the bubble's going to burst, and it's going to come all the way back down, it's not moving like that. It's almost like they're trying to just, like, destroy the middle class and make everybody a lower class, and then have a small lower class. That's right. It's all we are doing and it's really scary, especially when you think about our kids like that are going to enter into this time. Cars are already very expensive. Crazy. I told you that... Remember when I brought up the average car payment is right now? Over $700. That's going up, especially with banks and interest rates right now. That number was the number I gave you guys almost a year ago. I guarantee that number is higher now. Here's the other thing that they may do. Interest rates are 8% now in a third year. Here's the other thing that they may do. They may go to companies to keep them to keep their prices competitive. Or here's the other thing which actually is probably more likely. I mean, government hates Tesla, so I wouldn't be surprised if they do something like that where they subsidize it and they hook up like that. Well, no, I'm thinking what they might do just to... This might even be more popular politically is to not do that and rather have tariffs on other car makers so that they all have to pay a lot of money. So now all cars are expensive No, we've got to stop these foreign auto makers from outselling or whatever. We've got to save American jobs, so we've got to force these other auto companies to charge more type of deal. So I think you're right, Adam. Yikes. But where are we headed anyway? Think about automated self-driving cars that you could get on an app. The cost... That's why I think it's going to go that way no matter what. Even if cars weren't more expensive. That's how I feel too. The amount that they have to become as far as inexpensive... They're going to have to become so cheap it would be a no-brainer not to do those other ways. Because those other ways are becoming more and more popular for the young generation below us. And that's with a human driver. An automated car, let's say, that goes and parks itself at a charging station, picks you up when you hit an app. The cost of that... I mean, I've seen the numbers on what they estimate this for. It's like nothing in comparison to even a cheap car paying for gas, tires, insurance, having to park it. Now you've got your garage as a place for your car whereas you can make it for something else. I mean, I don't think anybody's going to... I think the future looks like this with the cars. You know how Apple has got everybody on like this... Basically, you're always paying a monthly payment now for a phone. Oh, I just finished paying off my last one. The new iPhone comes out and then you just do it and now it adds like 60 bucks a month. That's what cars are going to be like. You're going to have like a membership to Ford or something like that. And it's like, you just pay your monthly fee of $120 or whatever it is. Obviously, they'll figure out where that number is, right? Give you X amount of miles. That's right. We'll give you X amount of usage. And I'm sure there'll be packages that are like very minimal so you pay very little. Then there'll be stuff that's unlimited. That'll probably be all a car too. Because I can imagine getting a car like, hey, you guys want to grab some lunch? Or you got like food in there? Or let's have our meeting in the car as we go to the whatever. There's going to be very creative. And between now and then, what we're going to see is like the only rich we'll be able to afford, you know, these V8s still... It's like people own horses now. Only rich people own horses. Yeah, right? That's true though. No regular person's doing polo on the weekends. I bet you it's going to look just like that. And I think that we're moving... I don't think anymore people will burst and all of a sudden house prices are going to decrease by 50%. Houses aren't going to come down 50% cars and they need to to make them reasonable. Yeah. They have to literally... Everything will be rent. I mean, I agree with that. I think it's going to move that way no matter what. That's where the World Economic Forum was. That's where they want it. But I tell you though, when we go to automated cars and people don't own cars, there's so much more than people realize. If you just look at the layout of a city, how much space is dedicated to parking spaces and garages and places that you avoid because there's no parking or I got to drive or whatever, the loss of productivity because of traffic or I'm in my car I can't do something else, it's going to radically change things, radically. When you don't have to... Parking, what parking? It drops me off. It picks me up. You know, I wonder too if we're going to see and imagine it's more difficult to take a city like San Jose and change it to fit that world versus build it a whole new one that's right up the road. I think you're right. Yeah, they're going to be to build these smart cities and then... These are going to be irrelevant at some point though. Exactly. You know what cities are already designed this way? Old cities. Old cities, the walk cities. Old cities are what we're literally we're going to work ironically for the future. Seriously, in New York City, San Francisco it's perfect for little cars picking up and they drive outside the city to go charge themselves come into the city when it's time to you know, whatever. That's what they're going to do. You think so. That's an interesting thought. That's an interesting thought. Because I'm thinking that it's more likely you're going to get these where suburbs are at and just we're going to build I feel like for San Jose you would go we're going to go to Morgan Hill or San Martín or Gilroy and we're going to build an infrastructure to support this kind of a and then that way it's like that ain't that far to move all those people and convince them maybe sort of like the testing grounds and then they take that model and they recreate or refurbish like, you know, these cities that already exist. What do you guys think people are going to do with their garages by the way? That's a lot of that's a lot of support. Well, we already see this. It's common in the Bay Area. I mean our entertainment room or game room. I mean Jason, our buddy J is his rental property that he he lives in Gilroy but he has a place over here in San Jose that he rents and they like completely that garage it's like a room. Yeah, it's like a room. I think most people especially when you think about how much rooms rent for I know. Oh, they rent it out? Yeah. Oh, wow. Yeah. So I think people will rent that space. I mean that's really popular too. I was looking I was actually looking for garage space in around our area and stuff like that just to like to rent a garage to park one of the cars in there and a lot of people rent their private they have a place like yours that has three car garage like that and they rent for here. Yeah, for good money too. It's like 240, 300 bucks a month just to rent one of your slots. Oh, wow. Yes. So by the way, for someone like you who's got that may not be using that or wants to be like, yeah 300 bucks a month, bro. Oh, wow. Yeah. I mean. I'll let you park it for free if I could drive it. Well, I got to ask you guys. Okay. So I saw another unfortunate sort of art piece like I don't know how this happens or if like there's just not good people around them that can kind of point out the obvious sometimes to people in terms of like how things look or end up looking and it's supposed to be for like a serious thing like a lot of times it's, you know commemorating somebody that did something like it's like a Martin Luther King statue or something that's like, you know, really important. So there's this statue in Palm Springs that was supposed to commemorate AIDS and like, you know, the constant battle in the community and like, you know, it's a very serious subject. Huge gay community in the Palm Springs. Huge gay community, you know. It looks like a giant butthole. Bro, it's real. That's what I'm saying. I'm kidding. I saw the article. I'm not even joking. I saw the article. Wait, let me see it. Yes. Let me see it. These concentric circles okay on the one side on the back side looks like a blown out like. No. Looks like a blown out balloon knot. Literally is like just everybody's saying that. I mean, yeah, if you look at it, like that's the first thought everybody has. Yeah, like just make like a like a monarch thing or whatever I'm saying, like just make like one of those. Like you literally made community you come up with buttholes. Okay. Oh no. Like did you go see it? No, I didn't actually wanted to like take a picture. Please please do that. What? You go through a portal. What? Such a weird thing. I just don't understand it. What does the article say at the top? Like scroll up. What a fail. In response to criticism, they don't want to say what it looks like. Hey, don't you think that's okay, it's got to be a massive troll, right? That's a massive troll. How does that pass? That's a massive troll. You get your homies with whoever it is in the city. You're like, hey, you have an artist friend. You're like, hey, we're going to contract you to do this. And it's like a little fist bump behind closed doors. You know what I'm going to do? I'm going to make it a giant butthole. Just a little off so we can argue that it's not. What is it supposed to say? I mean, it's supposed to be. Did it say? Because wasn't that one Martin Luther King had arms that looked like a big... They call it a ring of something. A timeless and enduring landmark hovering above the ground. That's what it says. A potential touchstone for every category of community is a little struggle. The part that's funny me, it's always the artist that describes it in all this eloquent detail of their thought processing, creating it. But at the end of the day you just go to look at your... I want to see more pictures of it. Wow. Look at that. I'll get you one for your house. I'll get you a model for it. All you got to do is look at a cat. Right? That's exactly what it is. Put that on my front yard. How far is that from your house, Justin? It's like half an hour. Mine's more of Palm Desert. You're in the suburb, right? I'm not as familiar with the area. I've only been there a couple of times. Tell me Palm Desert versus Palm Springs. It's a little further. There's La Quinta in Palm Desert. These are all like suburbs. Where's the most travel famous place? Palm Springs is the first. Palm Desert was after that. That's where I lived when I had that. What would you say as somebody who has a place there? What is the big difference between the two spots? Obviously it's hot as fuck in both. What's the big difference between the two? Does one have way more shopping and things to do? The other ones just... Palm Springs is like the city. Palm Springs is kind of iconic in terms of the old style and like, you know, fifties. They had a lot more of the Hollywood actors that went through there. So you had Elvis's house and all these kind of cool... But it's like... Again, it's a different... It's kind of older, more rundown, and then Palm Desert is more like... I forget the word, but when they kind of bring in your Olive Gardens and like, you know, they sort of brought in a lot more of the stars and modern stuff. You know what's weird living out? It was the weirdest place to live because in the winter, obviously everybody goes down there for the winter. Weather's nice, beautiful, poppin', great place. But in the summer, like, more than half the population disappears. It's so weird. Well, because I think it's... One, either if you are there, you can't go outside because it's 120, so you stay inside or you leave the town. Oh, no, I go to the mall and you're walking around the mall and you're like, What? It's dead. It's really strange. There's only a few places you can go, the mall, or like, you know, go to a movie or like, I'll go to the gym. So I wound up going and like, sometimes around like July or when it gets really hot, we don't even try to go in August because it's just insane. I felt like my shoes, if I stayed out long enough, would melt. Yeah. It's like you're just stepping in like a walking oven. Yes, you know when you open the oven? That's what it feels like. It's also bright. Am I wrong? It's also like the sun. You're just like very squinty. Like no clouds. So the pool, you got to get in at like 7am and then go till 8am and then you're like hiding. It's so hot there the pool is not cool enough afternoon. You'll burn, dude. Justin will catch fire. He'll catch fire. Just spontaneously ignite. I remember it started to get hot because we moved there, I got there towards like closer to winter and I remember when it started getting to summer I'd wake up early to go to work. So I get up at 6am, 90 degrees I was like what the fuck? 6am, bro. Winter and spring is so amazing. Yeah, that's a whole lot of fun. Even in the fall is a bit cool, but the winter especially is like perfect. But in Palm Springs, I'm assuming there's a street or an area in Palm Springs like the gay area, is that where that is? Yeah, it's a good question. One of my trainers when I first got there, I'm like show me Palm Springs. This is the gay part of Palm Springs and you could tell because there was a store called Game Art. Really? There's like models with some scantily clad things on them, just like hugging each other and I was like walking with my boys and I'm like whoa, look at that. This is festive. Manicins? Manicins of being in certain positions. Speaking of the boys, some of my son, I've told you guys before, the thing is two minutes. Everything is two minutes. So we've expanded. We know a difference between two and five minutes now so whatever his fingers can hold up. Mom, two minutes is two minutes or if you really want to do something you'll ask for five minutes or whatever. But it's so funny because it's still the concept of the difference. Him and I are going to play some video games before he's getting ready to do something and remember what we're going to do. He's like, well, we have to go, we have to do this and he's like, mom, just two minutes, just two minutes like that. No, no, no, no, no, no. He's saying five minutes mom and she's like, no, no, no, two minutes. He's like, mom, and he's negotiating back and forth and she goes, okay, listen, three minutes. He's like, okay. Like it was this huge deal about two minutes versus five minutes and he was like, okay. He's a deal maker like Jeff. Bro, so funny. He's like, okay, you're like totally happy to. He was like, you can tell he's getting frustrated about the fun he wanted his five minutes. He can choose to say no two minutes. She negotiates three and he's like, oh, okay. Is it a funny one? You guys, that video I showed you guys of my two and a half lying. While he's doing it, touching the stuff. Are you touching that? No, no, no, no. He turned her phone on to hide it so we could hear it so she could record it. And she's like, what are you doing over there, Aurelius? And he goes, I'm not touching it because I'm not touching it because I'm not doing it. I'm not touching it. He said it like 12 times in a row, like so guilty. Can you come over here? I don't know. I can't because I'm not touching this. Even I'm not because I'm not because I'm not doing it because I'm not I'm saying I'm not I'm not doing it because I'm not Are you sure you're not doing it? No. No, they're fun right now. They're so fun. You just reminded me of a very interesting article I read on children's depression and anxiety and how it's been rising for a while. This is the best explanation that I've heard so far as to what is going on. There was a big study looking at what could be the connection between just this rise in anxiety and depression in children. And what they got to was that the locus of control has shifted in children from one being internal to external. So locus control means I am in control of certain things external means I can't control anything everything's just happening and they're saying that kids today have a much higher external locus than they do internal. And so then they further describe what's happened, how that happened. You know what the biggest contributor to that is? I imagine all this stuff that we've been going through and hearing your parents talk about the pandemic and hearing about all this scary news and all the riots and all that stuff. That's part of it but it actually goes deeper than that. Well it's here. It's not letting kids have free play. Oh for sure. So if you were to ask me I would have said the Jordan Peterson thing. It starts right there because that's such an important piece. If you take that out and you replace it with iPad babysitting then you add in the fact parent like we've seen the most I saw the most division in my family and friends with everything that happened with COVID and the vaccine and all this. If you are talking about that stuff like the other thing that Katrina and I too are really careful about like one of us you know we're adults so if she brought up something that she saw if we start a conversation like that if Max is in the vicinity like we shut it down like tonight we'll talk about it. Oh yeah so like we won't even talk about it even though it's not even a fight it's just conversing about fucking drama like that. I don't want him to even hear about that there's no reason for him to even do anything about it exactly. All he should be worrying about is playing and his things that he's into and so we make sure to avoid that. So this goes into the free play thing and basically and this is totally true they're saying now it's true. Parents don't let their kids just go do whatever they want if kids play parents are controlling the play you're playing with this it's at this time it's with this kid don't do that do this and so children lose the ability to explore experience fail and solve on the run. You know what I love about this that you're bringing this up right now and so we had some stuff that happened at his Max's school already that I was really concerned about went down there everything ended up working out good and I'm very happy about where we're at we went to the I told you guys what one of the last weeks we went to the his first open house or whatever so they have this thing and I thought it was actually interesting this is the name of it but I think it's up by the second or third hour is free play and the kids are they they do not dictate anything they let them choose or whatever thing they want to play so they can go do art stuff there's trucks and blocks to build there's puzzles like they and they call it free play it's like every day they have our free choice is what they call it they call it free choice and they the kids choose whatever it is that they want as I'm reading this article they're talking about how like even kids even just letting them be bored because they have to learn how to figure out what to do or they run into problems when we were kids and we went out to go play you didn't have a cell phone you have whatever somebody punches you in the face something happens you had to go all the way home to tell on so and so we're not going to do that you got to figure it out and this is how this is why this gives kids a internal focus of control because they encounter problems challenges they solve it figured on their own it makes them more confident less anxious less depressed everything's scheduled everything's monitored everything's interrupted no no don't do that make sure you do this that's dangerous whatever and you know as a result kids probably get hurt less I'm sure and I'm sure lots of you know there's some good effects but some of the negatives are exciting depression exploding because children are not independent they're not figuring short-term effects long-term it's the same thing kind of we talk about all the time it's like you got to you got to take you move yourself out of the equation which is the hardest part for a parent yeah especially when you see you have to learn yeah they have to learn on their own and they got to form that you got to hope that like whatever you you know passed on and modeled is going to carry on yeah because they were trying to connect it to like to technology and they said yeah but this trend has been going up before technology and it's because parents became more and more and more hyper involved and everything I'm actually surprised where I'm living like where we've gotten a few of these other parents to be on board with that and and allow kids to just roam the neighborhood and go through the forest and hang out and ride bikes and do things again yeah and they'll scrap they'll they'll you know get their knees like scraped up they'll they'll get boo boo's and everything else and it's just it's all part of them kind of understanding like how to navigate through all the terrain and how to kind of look out for each other somebody got lost and they went out to find them on their own and it's like you know it's kind of nerve wracking as a parent because you're just like oh man like I love that I mean I look for that in a neighborhood I mean one of the things I've told you that's why we I mean that's why I picked where I just moved yeah I saw kids there I'm like that was I've talked to before about my favorite neighborhood over in Idaho that one of the things that made me fall in love with it was aside from it being beautiful and all the houses in the area but there was kids riding bikes in the street and just that you don't see that anymore it's like you go to neighborhoods and you know there's kids that live there you know you've seen it before but then like in the middle of the day on a Saturday or Sunday there's like no activity like when we were that age it was like we literally put cones in the road we're playing roller hockey nobody knew what we were doing mom I'll be back honey be back at six okay gone yeah it's basically Lord of the Flies like we're out in the wild and do what we want and yes there's some dangers with that but you also develop more example classic example of overcorrection yeah crazy you know yes there has been there was abductions of kids things like that that had happened and so the whole world freaked out and went the other direction now they're safer today than they ever were yet imagine the safety in the 80s if you had it if every kid had phones like they do now like it's so much harder to kidnap kids when they got cell phones with trackers on them you know I'm saying like it's a different world we live in and yet we're still even more overprotected today than we were I am you know I know I know but it was crazy to read because especially for someone like me because I could be very like paranoid or whatever man fucked up in lighter in lighter news pumpkin spices back with organophon get your get your Uggs ready Justin oh yeah it's that time of year it's time for you to get those fall leaves from in the air with your cup of yeah I got a nice scarf dude I'm gonna be decked out get white girl wasted get white girl wasted on some pumpkin spice and organophon actually actually not organophon does not recommend this but have you guys tried throwing a little like whiskey oh yeah I do that to most things but yeah okay it is pretty good I haven't tried that I bet that's really good oh bro it's like a you know what is it called or whatever so it's kind of like that but I better be good with the egg I bet it would go good with the egg but yeah you throw a shot of whiskey in that worm drink before you go to bed yeah or spike some eggnog like you do for Christmas eggnog right so I would do that that would probably be bomb I haven't had their gold sweater poncho on I haven't done the gold juice in a while I haven't actually makes me want to have it as funny as that is with the gold before bed oh it's amazing and it tastes bomb so good alright I got a shout out this is a fan this is not a page but somebody that you're shouting on a fan I am because she went in to see Vicki at faded barbershop he's actually give me a discount like you look at you cock sucker using their business to freaking hook yourself up if you give me a free Starbucks I'll say your name bro is this the new hustle you're doing dude this is the new hustle I'm trying to get everything for free all these all of our listeners are like we got 30% off my groceries dude these people in the south keep shouting out dude you did that when you met Jim you did that when you met Jim how many hookers did you do back in the days this was before Justin they used to let us like work trade out with anybody so I had my dry cleaning unlocked I had movie theater unlocked I had car wash place unlocked like dude use free massage at least for free and then just plug it for yourself that was one of the best it's like politics they don't get paid a lot of money I didn't get paid a lot of money you know what I'm saying but I got a lot of hookers you didn't have to pay for shit her name is Rochelle Dillipaz I want to give her a shout out because I guess she's a huge fan or her boyfriend's a huge fan both of them and she got a haircut with Vicky at Faded Barbershop so also another shout out to Faded one of the best places around Vicky is amazing I love her I told the story about her and people ask her the best way my kids won't go anywhere else they're just like only Vicky coming here my son's haircut is there I get asked all the time about his hair cut so that's where it's from for sure Aurelius literally which cuts his hair though he doesn't move I think he's going to freak out he's just good job buddy I thought he would have a tough time that's great children's vitamins are typically glorified candy it's a fact look there's a company called Hiya that makes vitamins for kids that have real vitamins in them and they're not filled with sugar and they're not basically candy but they do taste good check them out this is the only vitamin we give our kids go to HiyaHealth.com that's H-I-Y-A health.com forward slash mind pump and on that link you'll get a full 50% off your first order alright back to the show our first caller is Andrew from Texas Andrew what's happening man how can we hold up Andrew how's it going fellas good what's going on weird let's jump into the question so basically what I want to do or what I'm trying to do is start over start fresh I've worked out on and off mainly off for the past 10 years I've hit goals in the past however at the beginning of this year I hit 200 pounds and I was like okay well I don't want to look like this I don't want to be this so then for those first 6 months I dropped to 20 pounds put on muscle mass I was happy I was confident it was good 4 weeks 4 months after that I really fell off again I was like okay well well I blame that on the discipline and then I have limited equipment I have limited time so I was like okay well let me start again let me look on social media let me see what I can do to be getting better results with limited time constraints and limited equipment and then all I noticed is that my workouts were kind of shoddy I was constantly changing it up I was constantly trying to do the next best thing and then I watched videos were you doing these workouts and I was like yeah you shouldn't and I was like oh well okay so then I was like okay well then I started listening to you guys throughout the year well here you have 3 different guys with 3 different ideologies 3 different methods but they all have the same goal so I want to see which maps program would be the best to start with like I said the limited time constraint and the limited equipment what does your time look like because I was reading your question and it says that you work a lot of hours so I'm assuming that's the reason why you have limited time what does your work look like and then what does your schedule look like so I work normally between 40 to 100 hours a week now for the most part my start shift is at 6am mostly sometimes and so I wake up at 3.30 to get in the workout from 4 to 5 and then but that's and right now I'm on a night shift so I wake up around 2 or 3 in the afternoon workout and again however this time my start shift is at 5.30 so I gotta wake up at 2 workout till 3 get out, shower, change, eat go to work 10-12 hour shifts when I'm lucky so you're gonna have to modify your training 2 days a week anabolic that's something I would probably shoot for maybe you're gonna have to modify it depending on your schedule so it might look different cause it sounds like your schedule changes quite often is that true? yes at least every 3 months, 2 months oh ok well that's not too often remember your workouts are effective when they work when you're working long hours 100 hours a week and you're waking up super early you're doing night shifts you're gonna have to work out way less versus when you're working 40 hours and you have more time and that's ok, what will happen if you consider this the right amount of exercise will get you the best results there is no other answer so more is not gonna get you there any faster than what you can tolerate how do I know what I can tolerate or how do I know what's the right amount you should feel good you should feel good the whole time if you start to feel run down poor sleep, you're too sore too stiff, too achy, you're probably doing too much even if it seems like it's not enough it's too much by the way your job is blue collar that's on top of all those hours right? yes sir yeah I do a yeah here's the other thing too you don't need as much exercise as the average person because you're exercising all day long with your work so what are your goals through exercise what are you trying to accomplish with it honestly I just I'm not too focused on the strength aspect I don't know if that sounds dumb or whatever but I just basically want to look be confident when shirtless or things like that because I like to run also when you should run shirtless and I was like I don't think I'm there yet maybe it's just the confidence thing but I just find that weird when I first started working out I knew I looked aesthetically pleasing I looked confident I felt confident honestly I'm just shooting for aesthetics there's nothing wrong with that what does your equipment look like at home at home I have the with the bench and a couple of dumbbells at my apartment I have just the dumbbells and the machine where you can do the lap pull downs and the tricep extensions do you have a barbell with plates at home I do but not at work I work and live five hours apart from each other you know what I like for you is maps 15 I would give them maps 15 and a ball between the two and maps 15 has an option that's just using the suspension trainer and then there's an option with a barbell and so if you're near the barbell and you can use the barbell do that work out if you only have access to the suspension trainer the PRX that's not a suspension sorry I was thinking about the PRX do you have a suspension trainer what is that like a TRX a PRX no no TRX it's a strap that's yellow and black if you don't have it then that's okay the move is maps anabolic with maps 15 the move is it will give you both those programs when you are at home and you have the squat rack follow maps anabolic and then when you are away follow maps 15 I would toggle between the two of those you can also take anabolic and cut it in half so either one of those would be fine the biggest point I think that has to be made here that Sal said is that you've got to learn to scale back on the weeks that you work 100 hours at best I'm having you train one day that week like 100 hours of labor is a lot of physical work you don't need to be training 2-3 days of full body routine on those weeks the weeks where you only do a 40 hour week and you get some good rest you could probably train 2-3 days a week that week of full body routine which would be maps anabolic what's great is if you follow a routine like maps anabolic it's okay you can pick any day and drop it off because they're full body routines so if you only get 2 days a week it's not like you're going to throw the body off because you didn't hit a body part because it's a full body routine so you hit it one day a week on heavy days or heavy weeks of work you hit it 3 days a week on light days and then when you fall somewhere in between 2-3 days a week and then when you have to and you don't have options with your squat rack you can go to maps 15 and or do the dumbbell routine that's part of anabolic that's how I would do this Andrew what does your sleep look like? uh... yeah anywhere between like 4-6 hours like right now I slept 4-7 right now I'm on 4 hours but I'll probably go back to sleep after this because you're not going to get any progress if your sleep is off that's going to throw everything off so even more important with what we're saying look we never do this I'm not going to do this again but I'm going to do it for you I want you to have a suspension trainer because it's extremely convenient it'll allow you to work out anywhere with maps 15 because there's a suspension trainer option when we hang up here we'll have our assistant get your address we'll send you a pair and you can hang them in your doorway or you can hang them on your PRX that'll give you more options it's less taxing too so it's probably a better strategy to follow that with it low to moderate intensity is your best friend at this point considering like your schedule and the amount of volume of activity you really got to prioritize recovery, healing, sleep so your workouts are probably going to be around that like I want to feel good now I'm going to go beat myself up and chase the gains but those weeks where you feel rested and everything is working well then you can push a little bit over the course of a year you'll be moving forward okay sounds good and how about the diet aspect of everything because normally I count my macros which I try to aim for anywhere between 170 to 200 protein because I weigh 185 that's good and my calories before so when I was cutting I cut don't get mad now right but it was like a 1600 calorie cut what yeah and that's the thing also I don't have time to eat all my food and again I know what you all say on the podcast all my protein sources comes from the protein bars protein powders it's all processed I have 30 minutes and a 12 hour shift to eat and if I have time I'll fit in one of those do you have any kids Andrew? yes I do I have one he's 8 years old damn and you have a kid so look you got to have to prioritize your health and don't worry about aesthetics don't worry about sleep is your best because you're going to hit a wall here I don't even know how you're able to function okay so here's such a good point everything you have on your plate here's the mistake that someone that's young that makes in your spot is you go full throttle until your body absolutely says fuck you and you can't anymore and then you swing the other direction you probably fall off the train of lifting you don't give a shit about eating and then you go hardcore again what it is is when you get at when you decide okay I'm going to start over you go too much too fast so literally what we're giving you and this is including with diet too feed yourself hit your protein intake focus on that like you said you're doing and feed yourself don't worry about crazy deficits right now and then train according to how you're getting sleep and rest and ease in start with less is more first before you ramp up and build up anymore days in the week because what I bet has happened to you in the past you go hard one way than the other way and what we need to do is just slowly build the consistency and the gauge that you want to use is do I feel good do I feel energetic at work do I feel good when I come home do my joints feel good do I feel well rested that's your gauge not like am I sore am I beating myself up am I sweating that's not the gauge that you want to use right now absolutely we're going to send you all that stuff okay when we hang up here I'll make sure you get your email thank you a suspension trainer okay thank you all so much appreciate it god damn it's a lot wow you know here's the deal for a lot of people working out for all of us I guess is a luxury because he's obviously trying to make ends meet his job is hard he's working at 10 hours you don't have time or space that's a literal example no time no space to work out and his workouts if he does any of them if you're watching or listening to this and that's a very similar position to yourself use your workouts as a way to take care of yourself in the sense that I need to find ways to like rejuvenate my body keep myself healthy I know that's always the thing that we say for everybody but it's so important if this is you because you try to push beyond that at all you're going to crash crash and burn and there's definitely signals his body's telling him to be ignoring because he's tough obviously tough but those signals are going to get louder those crazy schedules like that and the graveyard shift and I'm always like oh those are the hardest to give advice to because it's like what do you do? how do you maneuver in that environment you just have to do your best and really it is like the recovery is the most important so that has to go higher on the stack than even what you think you need to be doing so I recently talked about one of the biggest differences today about the way I look at my health and fitness journey compared to say 10 years ago is I look at all aspects of it and think that every day there's an opportunity for me to move the needle in the right direction of being healthier than what I was the day before so what does that look like? sometimes that means I'm just going to make an effort to get really good night rest tonight and I'm going to turn off the electronics I'm going to go to bed an extra hour or two hours earlier and do something sometimes it's I'm going to go get out and do a nice walk in the sun because I didn't do some of that some days it's I'm going to get down while we're watching TV and I'm going to do 20 minutes of mobility work some days I'm going to be like you know what today I'm going to prep my meals so I have good choices that are whole foods for the next two to three days all those are moving the needle in the right direction of getting yourself in a healthier position versus always measuring it by hitting macros or training my ass off it's so much bigger than that and somebody who has got this much on their plate they just need to make those little incremental changes or choices day to day and start compiling those up and you will get healthier you will get fitter you'll get the aesthetics that you want but focusing that way versus oh I got a couple days this week so I'm going to go hard I'm going to train hell hard I'm going to cut back calories 1600 calories and then you do that for like two weeks then you're eating fast food you're sleeping it's like you got to just ease your way in and look for the small wins in every day our next caller is Chris from Florida Chris what's happening how can we help you what's up guys how you doing today good great hey so I just want to thank you guys first of all for having me on and I thought you guys would like to hear because of you guys promoting women and lifting things like that I'm doing split currently and I've been able to get my girlfriend into it she switched from a boot camp style class and she's seen some great results with it so I thought you guys would really enjoy to hear that hell yeah right on perfect well I want to give you as much background as possible to let you get the best answer I've been working out for the last 15 years off and on the past three years I work at at least five to six days a week previously up until running split I was running six and lifting five I cut out the running followed you know you guys advice on how to follow the program as strictly as I possibly could I started split the beginning of July I'm 40 years old six foot one beginning of July I was 225 pounds of 21 percent this past Saturday I actually just did another scan I am actually 230 pounds 230 pounds now 21 percent I've established my mainest calories at about 33 to 3500 I've reversed dieted myself up to about 4300 calories a day I dispensed out about 460 grams of carbs 120 of fat and about 350 to 360 grams of protein so my question is I obviously don't focus much on the scale and I'm focusing more on strength and specific on volume because as you guys know specifically phase three is all about higher reps and really lifting as much total volume as possible so I guess the best way to phrase the question is how much in a healthy way how much volume or increase should I be expecting to get week over week so for example if I jump up 10 15 sometimes even 20 percent for one week to another in one exercise but one exercise stay stagnant for two weeks in a row is that something I should worry about is that just the nature of the beast that's nature the beast how long have you been working out consistently for the last three years the last three years I would say six days a week you could find me doing something yeah so linear progression where volume goes up pretty consistently or strength goes up pretty consistently or reps right where you just see progress on a regular basis is wonderful for to a certain point it can't possibly be perpetual yeah okay otherwise otherwise you know I'd be I'd be able to work out for 12 hours a day and I'd be bench pressing 2,000 pounds I've been working out since I was 14 right it doesn't work that way now that doesn't mean you can't continue to progress so that's the kicker with this is the problem with workout programming and fitness is it's a science and then it's not so the science is increase volume increase weight increase tension load your body will progress yes that's true until it's not true anymore you've been consistent for three years right around the two to three year mark for most people is when this starts to like you hit a ceiling and adding more volume isn't going to work anymore it's just not going to work anymore so what you need to do is back out and I'm going to give you another hack that works really well for a long time which is find movements find exercises find ranges of motion that you're terrible at and build skills within that and then you'll tap back into the linear progression so to give an example let's say you never do a windmill or you never push a sled okay or you never do a front squat or something like that you go under the bar or you push the sled you try it for the first time you're only going to be so good at it because you haven't practiced it well now you're doing something that you can develop skill around and you will see linear progress again for a short period with that new exercise and this is where you're at now this is where I'd say look for those movements and exercises where you can start to build those skills and then you'll see progress again and the second part is the reaches a point where backing down on volume actually starts to produce better results so this is again where the science you know you can throw it out the window and then it just becomes kind of weird but literally oftentimes people are real consistent advanced when they reduce volume cut their sets cut the intensity cut the you know frequency all of a sudden they progress again so those are two things I would look at if I were you because you've been so consistent for so long those are two areas that I would definitely look yeah I just want to just remind you that this is totally normal to see in to be level is actually a win so I my goal was always like okay I want to make sure I don't go backwards each week on volume so the goal was always to at least maintain that and then what I would naturally do is go up that five or ten percent on the workouts where I felt good and listen to more to my body it's like oh I and you know this right as soon as you get into that first lift and you're like just it feels good today the bars moving faster it feels you know twenty percent lighter it's like oh this is going to be a day I increase volume other days I get under the barn it's like oh this is going to be a rough day and then at those days I'm going okay let's just hope I can maintain my volume today so I literally would just do that I would allow the body to tell me when it's time to bump up another ten percent volume like that and that served me really well but you're going to have weeks there's times when I was feeling two to three weeks straight of just kind of just keeping the volume the same and and a lot of that had to do with what was going on outside the gym maybe I had you know some stressful stuff going on with work or family or you know my diet wasn't as perfect as it was the previous weeks and so I would allow that natural ebb and flow in life to happen I would make my make sure my workout intensity mirrored what was going on there and be okay with maybe a little even sometimes a little dip or a plateau and then when I felt good that's when I'm pushing up again and I was just over time so when I pull back and I look at four weeks like a month I should see increased volume over time but the week to week stuff you're definitely going to have this kind of natural ebb and flow that you just got to allow yourself to do that and don't make the mistake of chasing the adding volume so much that you don't listen to your body when it's telling you like you're not very strong today and so that's served me really well by just kind of paying attention. That's a good point Adam because even with linear progress the control so if this was a study everything would have to be exactly the same every week for us to be able to judge whether or not the linear progression model is working but your life is definitely not the same every week right so there's going to be weeks when you get better sleep less sleep maybe you're fighting off an infection you're a little more stressed out less stressed out more sunlight less sunlight so even in the context of like a beginner it doesn't always work because the controls are always different right so that's a good point that Adam just made. What is your workout programming look like for the last three years by the way? Honestly I follow it I know you're on the Nick Baer show at one point I followed his you can't hybrid athlete for the previous 12 weeks leading right up to split I did a half marathon in April and then immediately after the half marathon just kind of bored them wanted to mix it up wanted to focus on some little different to keep me engaged found you guys about a year or so ago so it kind of perfectly worked out that as I was kind of getting burnt out and running listening to you guys was really hyped up on the which you guys are putting out there so you can get into this kind of change of ideology or you know approach. Yeah well it sounds like you have fun with your workouts what do you think Justin if we did old time for him? I know I was just thinking that just in terms because I liked the earlier advice of like you know kind of shaking it up and focusing on a skill or something that your body like really needed to learn and teach that way too it also like will fill a lot of the gaps in terms of push you forward and get those numbers going back up again I do think it really challenges you in such a different way than you've ever experienced so I'm all for it if you can I like that no I like that I think someone like you if you did old time especially if you're game for that that would be awesome it's so different but it's strength training it is muscle building but difficult but it's really fun but the exercises in the programming is stuff that you know that people don't do anymore in the gym so what you'll get out of it is you're going to develop a really strong back shoulders your core is going to develop and strengthen like you've never experienced before and your grip strength yeah yeah rotational ability in terms of like being able to stabilize so lots of that stuff plays such a huge factor in strength people don't consider the more stable you can create within your joints the more weight you're going to be able to put up it's a new program and we're just starting to get emails now from people following it and my favorite emails and this is one I'm seeing quite common is oh I did I'm doing old time when to go test some traditional lifts and I hit new PR so I'm like well it's what Justin said they're filling in the gaps with new exercises so I'll send that to you if you're interested that would be great yeah that would be fantastic and to build on that one more and I don't want to take too much but PED looks really interesting to me and I feel like for a guy working 45-50 hours a week maybe I'm definitely pushing myself too much with that I kind of figure that would be a good answer but that was honestly I was going to put next on my plate oh yeah don't do that don't do that if you quit your job do bodybuilding full time you're going to be a pro bodybuilder start taking some animal talks you're going to love old time strength you're going to hate it at first love it by the end so what you're going to hate is it's going to be very challenging and I feel like a total newbie yeah and there's going to be movements you're going to have to really reduce the weight at first but the fun part is this is something that you're going to be able to see yourself see that 10% increase every single week because it is novel you're going to see great gains again which is fun and it's exciting yeah I'm excited I want to hear your I want to hear as you go through too so make sure you circle back Chris and let us know what your progress is like definitely definitely well all right brother you have a good one thanks Chris I know exactly what you were thinking out of me the entire time what a beautiful head of hair I didn't want to say it but like his resting face is a little bit villainy of course Justin goes there I was going to say it three years this is what happens like the first few years sometimes the first year sometimes it lasts a few years depending on where you start I mean you can get addicted and think that the train is going to keep going every month I'm stronger every month I get better every month I can add volume I'm progressing at some point it just doesn't work that way and then you got to get a little bit more creative it is so much reality it's listen if you're if you were working out consistently for five years to get you to add 10 pounds to a lift that you practice often is a miracle compared to getting you know a beginner to add 50 pounds to a lift it just gets more challenging because to get your body to further adapt like you got to get more creative that's where he's at right now well the advice that you gave with the old time strength is great because I think this is the hack that we share all the time how we keep ourselves totally motivated to keep doing different stuff is like if you're I'm always doing the same type of lifts and training that can get really tough to see consistent in fact when you get to the 10 years plus of lifting like that you have stretches where you're just weaker for a long period you accept it yeah it's just that's part of the game like you've been doing something you're not going to be especially as we get above 40 years old like you're not going to be seeing the PR you hit after 10 years of training when you were 30 you know I'm saying like the likelihood you're going to see that is just is super rare so in order to keep that like fun oh I'm seeing gains I'm getting better I'm getting stronger is keeping it novel changing it up to different type of modalities what I like to do is take one of my same age friends to the gym and then oh yeah a little hack our next caller is Caleb from Canada what's up man how can we help you hi I'm super excited to be here thanks for having me on your show you got it right so before I get into my question I just want to say thank you guys not only for all the fitness stuff but also just being such positive role models for young men like myself and just demonstrating what it's like to balance fitness with life and how to be a good father and just good people overall so thank you oh thank you man thanks man so I'm just going to read my question as is and then you guys can ask me any follow up questions if you want so my question is what is the best approach to transition from purely endurance baseball to appear strength baseball so for background I'm 23 years old 5'8 and currently around 155 pounds I was a high-level hockey player for years until an injury and covid 4th minute quit I played I was about 180 and was pretty strong for my size over the course of the pandemic I got into endurance training as a way to escape the lockdown and got really into it last summer and this summer I completed a number of endurance events including marathons bike races and a few Ironman triathlons while I enjoyed it I missed getting strong and lifting heavy in the gym like I did when I was an athlete and so I wanted to set a strength baseball wow yeah that's what you did you did some triathlons huh wow you're an athlete how far removed are you from this are you just coming off of doing one uh yeah so I just completed a half Ironman this past summer it was end of july this is actually going to be really cool this is an easy transition you just get started in a strength program and I think you're going to see awesome games you're going to pack on especially if you feed yourself while you do it you're going to pack on muscle like it's nobody's business 100% in a calorie surplus that's it yeah maps anabolic I would have you aim for let's see your 155 I would go for about 165 grams of protein do you know what your calories look like Kale? uh yeah so I'm actually kind of a pretty big eater so um I'm at around 2800 to 3000 calories right now okay yeah I usually get north of 200 grams of protein you can go ahead and keep it there keep it there and lift maps anabolic and you're going to blow up are you doing anything uh like are you playing pick up hockey during the week and doing other stuff activities or are you pretty much just working and then now going to be working out um yeah pretty much just working I like I like to do just go for like one or two cardio sessions a week kind of under an hour just to keep on yeah that's what I meant and then just recreational stuff like intramurals but nothing nothing intense Caleb how how important is it that you maintain a some level of athleticism during this muscle building process um ideally if I could I would like to okay I'm gonna change a little bit I'm gonna change my advice then I'm gonna send you maps performance maps performance will pack muscle on you but it's athletically based so you're not gonna because maps anabolic will pack muscle on you too but it's very sagittal plain basic lifts no rotation no lateral stability and uh you'll lose a lot of your athleticism doing that but maps performance you'll maintain a lot of your athleticism while you build it'd be more of a bridge but I mean you could do anabolic with mobility sessions instead of trigger sessions and maybe go in that direction just to hit like on those different planes of motion um but yeah like I think like performance would be a good like natural kind of follow up to that to then maybe even like anabolic right after I mean it's been a while since we kind of disagreed here so here I well I'm more like Justin so I you have the RGB bundle so I would run anabolic I would do the mobility days before he's playing intramurals he's gonna keep this boy he's gonna keep his athleticism up if you're playing intramurals uh every week and you're running you know what's gonna happen so because this might happen look he's 155 pounds he was 180 he's coming out of extreme endurance training he starts lifting he's gonna throw muscle on his body so fast no he's not not if he's running twice so we can do an intramurals if he maintains like uh his yeah exactly yeah you will I mean are you taking steroids are you is that what the lab is are you about to take a bunch of D balls somewhere I mean if he's if he's natural I mean he's a good luck throw if he did triathlon like if you did he's in Mexico right now if you did if you're doing Iron Man's you've got a and high level hockey you've got he's got really good genetics I bet you the kid packs on 15 pounds in a two three month period with eating that much food yeah and heavy lifting I think he'll gain muscle yeah that's a lot of mass and well I mean but but okay look how competitive are you looking at in terms of like you playing hockey again like or like is that something that you want to aspire to then do like some kind of amateur league semi-pro like what are you looking at uh no it's pretty much just just just stay active yeah go get jacked bro so it's just for fun yeah dude get you'll gain more on maps anabolic but you're gonna lose more athleticism mass performance will still pack muscle on you but you'll be more athletic so you can make that choice I think he's gonna have a hard time eating enough calories if he's doing intramurals he's running twice and then he's running a performance I think there's too much I know yeah I mean he's not gonna not build muscle but the protocol for me would be maps anabolic it throw in some of the mobility sessions from performance on days that you're gonna go for your run and play intramurals and you're gonna get fucking strong as shit you're gonna keep rotational strength you're gonna have a little bit of your endurance you're gonna be fun hold on a second here's one other thing I'll say because you already have the RGB bundle so everything that we're saying you already have I want to give you something just for calling in you like competing because the competition aspect would you ever consider competing in a strength sport I would consider it yeah alright I'm gonna send you maps power lift you can have it if you want to compete in power lifting this will be perfect and he already has that too we've got that too this kid's great you got everything alright yeah champion alright well there you go that was just to confuse you more stick to what Justin and I said you'll be fine yeah you'll be fine yeah do you have do you know what you want to do or do we just confuse a shadow well so there's a there's kind of a challenge like an unofficial challenge at school that's your like three big lifts up to a thousand pounds oh so I was kind of looking at trying to get as close as I can to that so definitely our advice is better than Sal's for sure yes for sure and then literally just just pull the just the mobility days before you any time you go do a run or any time you're going to do intermurals take one of the mobility days from performance and do it before you do that that'll be good for you yeah other than that follow maps in a ball yeah and eat calories it's super jacked and keep me keep me posted I'd love to hear if you put on 30 pounds overnight like Sal thinks you know I didn't say that calm down yeah because I want to know I want to know what you're doing over there mm-hmm awesome all right buddy yeah thank you guys take care you know this was right here which is happening this was a case where all of us are in a gym as trainers he walks in wants to hire a trainer young kid I want to build muscle roll come here dude this would be so fun oh my god it's gonna be so fun I mean he can't really go wrong as long as he doesn't I mean he was already 180 so he's already got muscle memory on his side he's already done Ironmans at the age of what 20 something years old he's up and high-level hockey he's got some he's definitely got some genetic potentials there yeah like muscle building potential I feel very confident if he did the right stuff like 15 pounds in a few months of lean body that would be easy yeah add to his body yeah I mean I can't wait to see I mean he's got himself in a great position to do that for those exact reasons I mean I know it's like to be a 23 year old kid though that still likes to do a lot of activity I mean the hard part will be the calories in my opinion getting enough food in to support you know building that much muscle in addition to doing some runs and doing intramurals is just it's tough did he say why he was in the lab by the way he was avoiding yeah he didn't answer that okay alright cool send us some stuff Caleb our next caller is Michael from Oklahoma Michael what's happening how can we help you hey guys how you doing thanks for taking my call I appreciate the opportunity to chat with you today you got it alright yeah so I'll jump right into it so I'm a runner I'm read off to the side here as I read through my question to be sure I get it right so I'm a runner turning into strength training on my second time through Mab Santa Bollig love the program had some great results from myself from it and looking to continue to build strength gains to where I want to get you know my bench press up to about 225 squats around 250 and deadlift around 300 so strength gains for me is very important in everything that I'm working towards on top of that I have a couple other my three other sons who are trying to get into strength training and I'm looking for some advice on bringing the younger generation into strength training and how I can use some of the content here to inspire them so my youngest son he's 14 about 511 120 pounds really lean he's on his cross country team and has a goal of wanting to get stronger my middle son is 517 around 500 510 140 pounds he's competitive into volleyball not into anything cardio wise just wants to build his strength and ability to jump and bigger and better serves and my oldest son 19 he did cross country competitive through high school and still he's really lean as well similar to my youngest one and he's just looking for more you know dexterity coordination and confidence to be able to move his body in the way he wants to so in general you know my real question is how do I program and inspire this for these three different sports on top of my personal goals with myself to continue to get stronger and lift heavier but at the same time I need to bring my kids up into it so do I program differently based on their sport what age is appropriate for strength training and what buttons from your experience can I press to increase their appetite and desire to hit the gym so that being said another way to recommend it would be you know any tips for convincing them to just get after it right yeah well so here's a cool thing they're all none of them do strength training yet right they do not their current programs are the youngest one he runs in his high school cross country team and it's a morning run and an afternoon run maybe some ab workout zero strength so that the cool part and then the competitive volleyball ball it's self on your own because when they show up for that it's outside of school so it's all just volleyball practice so the cool part about that is that even though they're all different ages they have different sports and goals standard just strength training for them is going to contribute to all their goals that's how you would start that's what's cool is like even though they're different ages different goals because it's they haven't done any like foundational training there that just doing that which so they all basically can follow the same routine and get benefits for their sports it doesn't start to get sport specific until later so that's the first fundamental characteristics to it yes the strengths a big component to that and really like in terms of how we structured mass performance this is what we consider because to be able to create something that was kind of generally hits a lot of those main attributes that a lot of athletes benefit from we would try to structure in a way where the first phase is really like strength focus strength centric and to be able to learn how to lift a lot of these compound lifts and and master that process first to build and establish that foundational strength then we move into multi directional type of strength so when you're an athlete you have to consider a lot more different variables and you do just somebody that's just focused on building muscles so to be able to be strong and move in different planes and twist and rotate and go laterally is is up most importance with that which then follows that up we get into more of a speed power type of training where we want that snap so we want that speed and to be able to control that and decelerate appropriately which then leads into more of the conditioning which they're already you know very very capable of and are already applying that with their specific sport but all of that will translate well towards their individual needs so I was thinking performance and suspension trainer that's what came to mind for me was like hit dad running performance in the garage like if you guys are all working out together in the garage and then also having a suspension trainer in case you have to but none of them do anything now they need to do at least a few weeks of very basic pre phase maps and well so that's why I thought suspension trainer suspension trainer I think for young kids is such a great tool because yes to start with that and then they can see dad doing performance and then work into some of his stuff you guys can all work out together you know doing that that would be the way I'd motivate everybody is to make it a family totally a family work out as far as the appetite is concerned Mike proper strength training stimulates appetite tends to stimulate appetite as the body wants to build muscle and then your job is going to be there is going to be to feed it yeah the main thing I would do is help them hit their protein target for their weight like let's get that many like that would be the main focus and then I would allow in a pile at their age just whatever I mean literally if they hit their protein and take all the other calories like whatever they want I almost yeah shakes are really valuable for for kids at this age especially in the morning you know teenagers don't like to eat in the morning so having like a shake in the morning a high calorie shake with like you know milk weight protein throw some peanut butter in there some fruit and then here you go and it's like 600 calories and it gets them started on the on the right track have you heard me about peanut butter chocolate shake that I used to make I love I think that's like milk and banana and two tablespoons of peanut butter and a tablespoon of Nutella and then your favorite vanilla way shake I mean that makes a like a like a Reese's peanut butter cup type of smoothie in the morning and blended on ice that's good like what was that 600 calories oh yeah at least it's close to 700 calories in the morning right there and a good 40 plus protein yeah I was just thinking while you were talking because I do like the suspension trainer but also to like the wave map symmetry structured in terms of learning how to how to basically control your body first and so thinking that like so your youngest is 14 right and then those ages in between that are more in high school that honestly for me is the biggest importance is like being able to control the body of it go through proper mechanics and range of motion we cover a lot of that like in the first few phases of symmetry which would then naturally lead into like something like performance because just jumping them in I agree it's it's a bit like more on the advanced side internal intermediate I would say well that's the greatest challenge you're gonna have here without us seeing the kids move is and this is again why I like suspension trainer so much is just the stability component and the control that they're gonna cover is them to learn that right where I mean I've had kids that are 12 13 years old that just are just have the gift you can tell them chest up shoulders back head up and they like just there they'll organize their body into perfect form bike by queuing them then I have other kids where I could literally be holding and pushing their body and they just their body's not all over the place and they don't have good control and stability and so really depending on where the kids are there which if they have no strength training background there's a good chance they might kind of be all over the place yeah so I love the suspension trainer for this because of the instability component it really and it's safe yeah such a safe way to get them into really strength training and running them through that first before I cool about that too Michael as you could get you know four suspension trainers and all of you could do it once you guys can all do it at the same time and you would like you would get benefit at a suspension training too so you guys could you could hook up four suspension trainers and you all do a set together and then rest together and then do another set together and literally just follow the program as it's laid out yeah to be awesome because I really does hit on all the buttons right Adam as you're talking about the stability because I think sometimes they're just afraid to put that bar fell on their back and yeah the weights and try to do a true squat and so they just don't do it in that case so it's cool with the suspension trainer too is that the resistance is kind of natural because you're using your body weight so it's it's it tends to be more appropriate right and you can do it at the same time you know unless unless you get five barbell is a skill everybody could do it together and you all do a set together and then you all rest and becomes like this fun so this is what I want to do I'm gonna have Doug send map suspension to you I also want him to send map performance because I think this is what will be a great program for you to rest to and then if the kids are ready they can do it join you afterwards when you get maps performance you should also get a follow-up email Doug right he'll get a follow-up email for 50% off the suspension trainer itself for suspension yeah so no I said well I believe so maybe I can just have Jerry yeah can you make sure that he gets that so you'll get half so the suspension trainers only 50 bucks they're normally like a hundred something bucks so for 50 bucks you can get one and get three of them or four of them for all of you guys after that you could follow performance but suspension trainer for the kids and you would be a great great workout all together to introduce from that and then as they start to progress and build confidence then maybe move them into maps performance but by the way doesn't hurt to keep having a run through suspension I mean that's like that they could run that over and over until they build the confidence and maybe what happens is they go through it once or twice you've now moved on to performance they're still doing their suspension they see you doing the barbell back they want to get in there and try it with you maybe for a set or two and you kind of slowly introduce it to them that way as they feel confident and then eventually when you see like okay they're starting to move this this barbell pretty good okay I feel right that they're ready for performance so that's kind of how I would gauge it I was saying yeah I appreciate that and then the shake the shake for breakfast in the morning I was kind of hesitant on some of that but I think I need to spark their appetite as well so the strength training and then a shake in the morning get that appetite and that metabolism going to get hungry yes to be hungry and they'll take the calories yes that's a huge with that breakfast so that one's an even easier one okay as you can only imagine having three boys in the morning and everything you got probably going on with work life too could be a lot creatures of habit the oatmeal with 30 grams of protein already in it like that's a and all you do is add hot water so I think that's a solid you know if you don't have time to blend the good fast thought yeah it's a fast quick good and it will stimulate that appetite so do check that out for sure if you haven't tried that yet yeah outstanding so I appreciate the time to to chat with you that really is helpful helpful advice and just want to say keep up the content which I would have connected with someone like the mind pump show when I was younger you know now but I'm here and you guys have great content and it's just a powerful to hear men talk about fatherhood and all that stuff in a positive light so thank you appreciate that I'm like hey I would if you get all the boys doing it I love a video of all you guys working out in the garage email to us if you get everybody on it we'll do it all right buddy thanks I think you you got it I didn't expect this the sleeve tattoo to peek out when he pulls leave it oh secret badass I hope he doesn't see the earlier guy I gave a free suspension train I don't give you 50% off he's got too many kids well I just know what you're going to get shit for when we hang up here is our team that has to go like shipping thing actual thing it's easy for us to give a digital free stuff of course shipping free stuff is kind of a headache with all those stuff we are to do but I yeah I think that you were on point with the suspension trainer and they could all do it together really yes that makes the most sense right now for the immediate needs and and what we don't know and that's why I think that's the go to default answer is I mean maybe one of his boys or all of them have great biomechanics and then you could throw them right to performance and they would be great right but if they don't and I like where you were going with symmetry with the isometrics because that you know the isometrics such a great place to start kids but it's also not very fun and it's also very hard to get buy in and if I'm trying to get buy in I'm always seeing an ideal right yeah my best case scenario at least to draw it out first and then I kind of reduce it back like what actually are they going to be able to apply now what makes the most sense and suspension makes the most and the good thing too is with kids like this who've never lifted they're gonna get benefits from basic strength anything yeah they could I mean they could just do push-ups and pull-ups and body weight squats in their bedroom see muscle development and that's why the suspension trainer to me is the the easiest introduction to getting them to liking and and doing it it's kind of fun it's easy like you said is that they can all do it together like that will be a great experience I think that's the money move totally look if you ever to mind pump free calm and check out some of our guides we have free fitness guides they're all free on that page you can also find all of us on instagram Justin is at my pump Justin I'm at my pump the Stephano and Adam is at my pump Adam