 Our next panel discussion is about data and sports, the winning partnerships for fans and brands. To take this discussion forward, I would like to invite our session chair, CEO for Zenith India, Jay Lala to kindly join us on stage. Ladies and gentlemen, please give it up for Jay Lala, CEO Zenith India. Welcome, Jay. Joining us on this panel, our esteemed panelist, Gaurav Nijavan, Vice President, Marketing and Brand and Communication, Stashfin. Please welcome our panelists with a round of warm applause, ladies and gentlemen. Shankar Ayer, Associate Director, Marketing, Perfetti Van Melle, India. Welcome you. Please give it up for Snehil Gautam, CMO for Housing.com, PropTiger.com and Makan.com. Welcome, Snehil. And Yannick Kholako, co-founder of Fan Code. Our panel is set on stage and now I would request our session chair, Jay to kindly initiate the talk. Thank you. Thanks a lot. Really, really great to do this session and when this topic came to me, I thought like 45 minutes won't be enough. So, but we've got a great set of panelists and we'll hopefully have a very interesting session for all of you. So on the topic to kick off, sports has been quite a game changer, not only in India, across the globe and when it comes to marketing, it's a challenge in terms of when you look at content and when you look at sports because sports evokes a lot more emotions, a lot more feelings. There are fanatics who sort of follow the game and given all these elements which sports brings in and then now with the tech which is getting evolved and the data that gets produced, it's a great sort of combo to have and today what we'll do is we'll just like try and sort of garner as much information from these experts. So to just start off first, Gaurav, I'll start with you. What's just a top line view in terms of power of sports, power of data? Good evening, everyone. So I'm very passionate about sports and hence I'm very excited to be a part of this panel discussion as well. So the topic which is around sports and big data, I think if sports and big data get married to each other, it's truly engaging for the customer and it becomes really meaningful for the brand as well. And in fact, I was just thinking about it that in the past technology has been really enabling and disrupting the way we see a lot of things. It could be around telecommunication, it could be around fintech, it could be around the way events have been happening or even the sports as well. So when I think about sports as well and how technology has really driven sports is that sports has always been whatever the finest technology was present in any era, the most innovative technology that was present, sports was always part of it. So for example, when I was in school, I remember I used to go through print magazines back then, sports stars and all of that and trying to figure out what is Sachin Tendulkar up to or Rahul Dravid up to. Then broadcast channels came in, cable TV came in. So people were hooked on to whatever technology had to offer from a perspective of sports as well. Then obviously cricket websites happened and we were clued on to analyzing what is happening in our favorite sports, be it cricket or even football for that matter. Now there's a theme of OTT players with the advent of 4G and 5G technology. So hence it is but obvious that technology will play a big role in sports as well and in trying to figure out that how do we enjoy the most from a sports perspective. Now the big data bit here, right? The big data is really something from a brand perspective, something that will add really meaningful to a brand to understand what the customer is all about. Like if it gives a 360 degree overview about a customer. So just to give you an example, if some customer is a soccer freak and a messy fan. Can predictive modeling or predictive marketing or big data tell us that? Is he likely to shop for a merchandise which is related to soccer? Or whether he might be looking at a football documentary also on a Netflix, right? Or would he be looking for booking his tickets to Qatar for World Cup that's gonna happen? Or is he looking for the best credit card offers for personal or to actually be there in Qatar as well? So I think that for me, if from a 360 degree standpoint, if big data can tell us, it'll be really truly meaningful for both the brand and engaging for the customer as well. Thanks, thanks Gaurav. Sneha, would you like to sort of add onto this and specifically like the way Gaurav was saying that big data is important and big sports in India, especially beyond cricket. Like when we think about sports in India, it's like generally said that it's all about cricket, but is there something beyond cricket? So the reality is cricket is huge in India and it still remains very huge. You take TRP data, ratings data, or if you look at your core TG and in most of the sector, it's true for most of the sectors. If you ask whether your core TG is watching cricket or not, most of the time, the answer is yes, right? And that's why the cricket is such a big business. I think the next big sports that has been originated in India is Kabaddi. If you look at ratings, it's again quite good, but compared to cricket, it's still small. Football and tennis still plays a very niche sport so far in India, but if you ask me as an advertiser, how these sports, where will you put these sports as an advertiser? Cricket will always remain a very high impact program for us. Football, Wimbledon, tennis, these are the niche areas, niche programs for some cohorts of our customers. Advertising on those programs makes lots of sense and it doesn't require lots of money to advertise on that and ROI is much, much better in terms of getting to the right users, getting to the high intent users, getting to the HNI users. So those sports are still a sustenance, the high intent targeting programs for us and cricket, I think, still India, very high impact sports. Thanks, thanks a lot. And it's quite interesting and Yannick, I would like your views on this, is with this whole data becoming affordable and like OTTs across genres everywhere, seeing quite a bit of a boom, do you think sports is going to move towards OTT and become like, OTT will become a broadcast medium? Yeah, I think it's, it already is, right? I think in terms of if you actually look at live sports, I think one of the most prominent, fastest growing mediums for broadcast is digital right now. And I think it does two very important things. You spoke a lot about, I mean, which is the fundamental reason why sports is so much more important to marketers than any other content like cat videos or other YouTube, which are low engagement videos, is that the user normally has affiliation. They want a player to win, they want a team to win, they want a player to do well. And because of that, the users normally or the viewers very engaged into that. So the ability to actually get on that. So when you start looking at digital, I think what the transfer of sports consumption from television to digital does, it allows you, from a user, it allows you to be able to watch what you want whenever you want. You're not restricted by linear. In linear television and in the old broadcast days, if you had five channels at one point of time, you could only show five sports events. Now you can show, I mean a fan code we show at some point of time about 25 sports events at the same time. So you're able to, as a user, you're able to choose what you want. So I think that really has added a lot of advantage to sports users, to sports fans. And I think the other big thing, which is essentially moving the migration of consumption from traditional broadcast to digital, is that, honestly, sports consumption or sports fans want more than a, they're more than passive viewers, right? It's not just about sitting back and watching a game. It's about being able to talk to friends, whether it's virtually or in real life. It's about being able to interact with stats. It's about choosing. It can be a lot more immersive and digital. And if you compare where eSports is as an experience of users to interacting with the game, sports is way behind. And there's so much of things that you can actually learn from. And you know, it's something that we're doing even in this India tour of West Indies, which is on fan code. We're trying to actually do a lot more in a sense, give the power of the actual experience to the user, to the fan, which is the fan can choose when they want to watch a highlight. The fan can choose when they want to access stats while the game is going on. The fan can choose who they want to listen to in commentary. And I think that's going to push more migration, more migration, a sense that users are going to move to digital because some of the services that digital can give you in watching sport are just not possible to give in a traditional linear form. And as and when you require it. Very interesting. Shankar, I would like your views on this, given that you have a host of interesting brands and even more interesting creatives. How does this play out in your scheme of things? Yeah, thank you, Jay. So with the kind of sector I come in is FMCG marketing and of course food marketing as well. So for us, physical availability is important, but more so is mental availability. And I think that's where digital pig data, they come in versus TV, wherein we are able to capture the immersive experience that the consumer has when he consumes sports, watching on mobile, watching on digital. So for us, it's very clear that whenever we do any advertisement, it's a combination of TV plus digital. And that is where OTT and VOD as a platform is predominant for us. So the key aspect is youth is again a big segment for us. In order to capture this 18 to 24, 18 to 30 year olds, the best part is to go on digital, the right platforms. So be it a Disney Hot Star or a YouTube, any sports streaming website, for example. And to us, what it has done is given us that mental availability, which otherwise on TV with maybe, you know, there's a measurement with sample size, et cetera. Here you have measurement, which is very clear. You can measure BLS. There is data available. There is targeting that you can do very segmented. Plus, and you also mentioned the kind of creatives that we do. So our brands are about fun, about playability. And we recently did some great creatives with, say, a tennis ball-shaped cup. What we did is we advertised it during the IPL. Interestingly, because we made cohorts of consumers who liked cricket as well as tennis, for example, in areas, in geographies, when we had launched it. So this kind of segmenting, this kind of profiling, I think that otherwise couldn't have happened. And also the kind of creatives that you do. On digital, when you go, it gives you that opportunity to do shorter creatives, 10 seconders, 15 seconders, because you know that's the kind of attention span people have. And they are positively disposed as well, because you make creatives which render itself well to the kind of sports that you target. So I think for us, it's very important. And over the period of years, I think the last two or three years, what we've seen as digital through sports marketing, give us incrementality in reach, reaching the right audience, of course, and in the right geographies. So for us, it's a great medium. And I'm sure we'll keep continuing to invest in it as well. Great, very, very interesting. Moving a little more closer to the data part, how, what kind of role? And Gaurav, I would really like your views on this one. Given the industry you come from, data analytics to micro-target your consumers, micro-target markets, just what do you want? So this is a very interesting take on this. And this also takes me back to my not just BFSI, but FMCG days as well, where in whenever there was a new product launch or a brand launch, we used to call it like television will be giving air cover to the salespeople. And we'll do BTL activities that'll be like the military on ground or merchandise. We'll do visibility and all that. What was missing was the surgical strike, like the precision targeting, which I think OTT and with all these data analytics tools are going to bring in the precise targeting of what a person wants. Because now people are also used to on-demand content. So they need it when they want, wherever they want, they want it on the go as well. So that's where the precise targeting plays around as well. And I also feel that there is a need for data hub centers, so especially in OTT players. And right now I think it's happening as well, wherein you do programmatic buying. And I have my first party data from a fintech perspective or any other brand's perspective as well. Would I be able to reach out to my customer segment in the most relevant way in a programmatic way? And then can OTT players or the programmatic buying or this data centers tell me that what kind of frequency is required to reach a person in the most relevant way? What time of the day or what kind of locations would give me the best output from a performance standpoint and reduce my cat as well? So I think these are some of the innovations that from a media or a digital marketing data standpoint will be really helpful. Snehal, what is your viewpoint on this, given that you're in an industry which you're marketing properties and there'll be high-end properties, middle low. And how does this play a role of data analytics in your scheme of things? So for us it's extremely important because we are a platform where users come online, they come to buy, sell, or rent properties. So for us as a platform, we profile our users at a very minute level because we know what the user is doing on our platform, whether they're looking at one CR plus property, they are looking at 50 lakh properties. And after that, we have also mapped their consumption pattern and it's very interesting because before COVID, my answer would have been very different than what it is right now. And I'm sure fan code team will be very happy with the new trend. But earlier, whenever we used to sit down and do our media planning, then it was a TV first media marketing plan that we used to do, especially for sports because across the courts, whether it was a user segment looking for a luxury property, a user segment looking for mid-value property or user segment looking for a less than 50 lakh property, everyone was on television. Now, after, and that's the reason while COVID, deadly, extremely bad for human race, few things it has, there was few positives out of it as well, there were cohorts of people with whom we were struggling to get them online in tier two, tier three cities. If you look at our growth numbers from tier two, tier three cities, it has significantly gone up and we didn't do anything. It's all because the ecosystem became better. Similarly, if you look at the cricket consumption, sports consumption across the cohorts, our top layer segment has completely moved out of television now. They are watching sports on OTT platforms and it has resulted in shifting lots of money towards OTTs and that shift will keep happening. We are seeing rental audience completely cutting the cord of television. They are completely on OTTs. They are watching IPL on OTT platforms, on mobile, on connected TVs and that's the reason we started our media budgeting with 70-30 in four years back and this year we have planned 70-30 again, but 70 towards digital, which is a big shift. And what would that be for, like if I may ask Shankar, what would it be for per fatty? 70-30 digital. So I think I was just thinking the same piece as well. So when we started before COVID, we would be like 90-10 in favor of TV, but we are moving now a 60-40 for our youth brands still in favor of TV, but I think this is set to change in the times to come. I'm sure most of you have seen the recent auction as well of IPL of course, where you did see that people trying to play bits for digital rights is getting as close to say 80% of what the TV rights are. This just shows that what the next five years has in store. And I think what has also happened, as rightly said by Snehal, is tier two and tier three. That always used to be our benchmarks to go on TV, because the kind of product that we are in is mass. You need to create an impact. And Cricket, as someone said earlier in the panel as well, you could make that impact on TV straight away and that is where you used to look at those spots. Now with digital being there and the sports being there, you can actually say in an India-Pakistan match, you want to be present when India is batting because that's when you know most people would watch it. You would want to be in the last 10 overs. You could do this in the old days. If you go on TV, your spot buys are done, even if it's pre-aligned as well, but then you get a fixed duration and a big spot as well. Here you can change that. I think that is the kind of flexibility we are loving with digital as well. And if at all you think the India-Pakistan match is a no consequence match with either of the teams and if you're teaching anywhere, you can pull back as well. So I think that is something digital is giving us the joys of as well. So 60, 40 is I think here to stay probably as we go along some of our media plans during COVID and just when we got out of it, what we also did was we only did digital. And as an experiment, it worked as well. So we did targeted promotional offerings for certain geographies and we said we'll only go digital. So this has really helped us. And Gaurav, what is it for you? We're all digital, FinTech. If we don't go digital, who will go digital? But I also feel the power or the impact of television is also from a credibility perspective as far as my opinion goes. Because we've seen, we talk about CAC, we talk about impact, measuring real time and all of that. But having said that, it's still the credibility that television can offer or the reach in one go, it can offer, it's still not there. Maybe from an urban perspective, everybody has smartphones and all of that. And tier 3, 3, 4 cities, it's changing as well. But still, there are other media network. Radio is essential. If online education was an issue for village kids, they couldn't study properly during the online education time because of the lack of a smartphone. It's too much to ask for being only digital from that regard, to reach that TG, if you have that TG as well. No, interesting. While we've spoken to the marketeers and their point of view in terms of how it is, but what about the fans? How do you engage with the fans? How do you, as a content provider, as a platform, using data or otherwise, what's your view about that? How do you engage with them? Yeah, I think it's what I was saying earlier. In a sense that I think, you know, if you look at traditional broadcasts, and even if you think about, we've been watching Cricket and Cricket is most, in terms of how a broad, it's all storytelling, right? It's all about what all these guys know really well. It's all about a producer saying, okay, we're 10 for two, now the story is around who's the next batsman? What's your Ben strength? You know, what's your strength? What do you back to? Is the pitch turning? So it's all building the story with statistics, with, you know, win-loss probability, a whole lot of things. So the engagement was always saying, I'm trying to keep this person or keep my consumers engaged through the storytelling. But I was telling that story, the same story for everyone. So whether you were sitting back and watching from the first ball to the last, or whether you came in to watch for five overs, or whether you came in, as Gaurav said, to watch the last five overs, it's the same story. Which essentially, think about watching a movie, right? And you're coming at different places, exactly the same story that you're telling. Now digital, one of the most important things that data can do in immersive technologies like digital is to be able to create customized stories for when you come in. And giving some of that experience, giving that control of that experience to a fan and using digital to be able to do that is really the path to that. So a fan can come in at, you know, in the last two overs and get a quick recap of every single highlight during the break between 19 and 20, there are T20, get up to date, watch the last over and move on. Whereas a fan who's sitting from over one can watch the full story as it goes, someone who comes in over five. And everything, if you, especially in younger audiences, the attention span, as we all know, is much smaller. You have to be able to keep users engaged on that. And I think data, providing data at various pieces is really, really good. And also providing data in a fun format, right? And using wagon wheels, Manhattan's, comparative, wind probability, you know, at some point, you know, comparisons from now to 10 years ago, things like that. So I think using that, using data to tell stories which are personalized to individuals and give them control of it is essentially what we're trying to do. God, God, very, very, very interesting. And I'm sure, like as marketers, we'll be able to like really, really capitalize on, you know, all these enhancements which are happening on the game. When we talk about sports, it's usually, like, you know, we think that it's youth. It's very male focused. But like a large part of our addicts is focused towards the women. And that's where, again, Shankar, I would have like a viewpoint in terms of what role, like sports, women, and from a marketer standpoint, like when you are looking at brands which are targeting women, how would you portray with sports? How do you work around with sports? Thanks, Shay. I think it's an interesting question. So typically what we've seen is in our categories where we have, say, gums, for example, is predominantly towards men. The consumption is 70, 30 in favor of men. And we've typically in the past looked at, you know, programs that, you know, women like or we want to target them with content which they would appreciate as well. But I think when it comes to sports, the reality is that as on date as well, the viewership from women is less. But what we have tracked a sweet spot is if we are present in some of those key games, and I'm talking cricket again, because that becomes big impact. And again, going back to an India-Pakistan kind of a match where it's the whole family who watches together. So if there is a new launch that is there, and if it's on Alpenly, but for example, which is a family brand, here we know for a fact that the entire family is viewing. And here, a mom is important for us because mom is a gatekeeper at the end of the day for kids, especially in terms of consumption for sugar. So for us, it's important to be present there because then you have the full family. There is co-viewing that is happening. So on TV, we've taken this approach. On digital, I would say to be fair, we are slightly behind on this because we've not cracked the code yet. But yes, again, at the end of the day, we have seen there is some spike in consumption from women as well because we get some sport they take affection to. But this is, I think, work in progress. And in the times to come, I think this is where we can look as an opportunity as well. Good, good. And Yannick, again, coming back to you on this, like, how would you, as a platform owner, look at the women audience? Like how would you try and bring in more women to watch the sport? So I think this is a little more, I think this needs to be a little macro, right? As a platform, you can do whatever you want, but you have to, I think, the fundamental change in getting more women to watch sport, get more women to play sport, which is really important. You know, we keep talking about building a sporting powerhouse. Getting women to be performing and playing also is really important. I think the fundamentally, we have to make more women superstars, right? Young girls, I mean, I have a seven-year-old daughter. She actually started, like, she plays cricket. She enjoys cricket, not because of Virat Kohli, but because of Jemima Rotrics, right? Who we used to actually start showing on fan court on the 100 and stuff like that. So I think it's really important to not just to promote women cricket. I mean, this India women's tour of Sri Lanka, which just happened, no broadcaster wanted to even broadcast, which is ridiculous. I mean, we had to actually go and set up cameras to be able to show it to audiences in India. And I think that investment in terms of actually, and I think this is for everyone, at broadcasters, marketers, everyone, I think the investment into women's sport is the most important, because this is not gonna change overnight. That is gonna set the next generation of young girls who are actually going to start following sport because they'll build role models. They're not all gonna be superstars, but they have role models. It's like how all of us grew up watching cricket, not because we were great cricket players, but because we grew up seeing male cricket superstars. And I think building those role models has happened in badminton, it's happened in some way in tennis. Building those role models as a broadcast or as a distribute of content to make sure that we are able to put money behind, not just showing those content to users, but also being able to market it. And that's, I think, really important. And it will take time, but as Shankar said, it will take time, but it's something that has to be invested in that sense. Sure, Gaurav, you would like to add something? Yeah, I have a point here because we've also faced a similar challenge when we were launching a live boundless platform for women. Because even in a fintech industry or cards industry, it is traditionally male who dominate from a financial aspect perspective. So I feel that it's a challenge for the marketeers to make things cool as well. So for example, when we launched that platform, we showed a woman wanting to take up golfing, while everybody around her was judging her, that you want to hit a ball, just hit it with your brother's bat. So when you tweak things around, when you make them realize that they don't have to listen to inappropriate things when it comes to taking up sports or things like these, that's where we'll also see a lot more women coming in. And I think that's, if we make sports really cool and give them what they want, maybe it's from the backstory perspective or taking up sports very seriously as well, communicating that in a much effective way, that will really help. Got it, got it. With sports being so much about passion and what it can do for a brand. And at the same time, data. There's a combo of both of them, which is extremely lethal. Giving personalization angle to that. What I would want is each of your views on this. In terms of just imagine that there is personalization at scale possible. How would you leverage it, given the sector you're in or the brands you're handling with some example, which might be futuristic, but will make it really interesting. So Gaurav, if you would like to start with. So now this reminds me of what I was trying in my BFSI, one of my BFSI brands that I worked with. And this was the peak of demonetization, wherein go digital was the key thing, that let's go digital and all of that. We realized it's a behavior, right? So a behavior is a person would book a Uber cap and pay digitally, but when it comes to buying groceries, the person will choose cash, right? So I think data here, even from a sports OTT standpoint as well, right? So if there is sort of a lot of partnership between a e-commerce player and the OTT player, wherein you know that this person is more likely to buy a certain product or a brand, wherein you can pitch the right product at the right time with the right context as well. That is the personalization that will be very meaningful for both brand and the consumer. Shankar, what's your view on? So the kind of space we are in, for us, it's very important to make the brand meaningful. And meaningful, I'll split it into two parts. One is something that meets the need, relevant. The other is, again, from an impact perspective as well. And how does it link from an affinity perspective to the consumer? So, and I can give you some historic examples of Centerfresh as a brand was built in the 1996 World Cup. People came to know the brand because we sponsored it. And at that time, I think we took the punt, we took a gut call. And as I say, many of these sports calls are gut calls. And at that time, not much data, we wanted to create an impact, we went with it. Something which I think women in sports has to be that route as well. But coming back to this specific question of yours, when in terms of personalization, what we can do is go at a micro level and go at geographies. And so if I have a creative, right now it's more a national creative that I make. I could go regional. I could cut that creative with characters and cast which are localized. I could run that in specific geographies. I could create scale out of it, which right now on TV, I can't. I can only dub it and play it in say a certain part of the country. But here a contextual is key. Again, relevance is key. And hence the cast, the story and the way the story is told can be cut regionally as well. That is something I think in the future is something we should capitalize on. And with kind of scale digital we'll get. It will be good from an the return on investment perspective as well. Because TV again, CPMs are lower, digital CPMs are higher. But when you see the return on investment on the marketing spends, I think digital will score. And probably we'll see more and more interesting creatives catered personally to the consumer. Snehal, your views on personalization? So for us again, it's extremely important to personalize someone who is looking at two core property. If you show them 25 lakh, you might hurt his or her ego. Uninstall the app. So for us it's extremely important and we do it more from the performance side of the marketing. But we are working on something too early to talk about it. But take an example of Zomato, what it did with personalization, especially with the branding. What they did was the creative was changed basis the location of the person on YouTube. And I think it was really, really well done. And we are trying to do something very similar because someone who is living in Mumbai wants to buy a home in Mumbai. And if we can talk about the locality, we can talk about the kind of property he or she is looking in. From the branding point of view, not from the performance point of view, it will create lots of impact. So for me, personalization will has been limited to performance marketing so far. It will slowly and gradually move into brand marketing as well on digital. And digital will be the space where it will change. I think where it will make more sense is when OTTs also start opening up as far as personalization is concerned because it has been so far restricted with too much of customization. So I believe once OTT platforms becomes more open, they give more targeting ideas. The brand becomes more creative about customization on the creative front. You will see personalization happening on the brand marketing piece as well. And Yannick, again from a viewer standpoint, from a fan standpoint, like how would you sort of envisage this or what is in store for us in the near future? Yeah, I think Stan was completely right in the sense that customization of experiences is an extremely important part of, especially because users have so much choice. They don't have time to even the basic product that we have being able to get a football user to be able to see football information that's relevant to them as opposed to a cricket fan. It's really important to build that personalization. And I think when you start thinking about the technology platform, you start thinking about raising the level of a consumer's experience, that's when I think all this kind of sits together. You know, Gaurav had this great example of talking about content, merchandise, and in a sports scenario, and payments. That's if you actually were to think about it and you say, okay, Rohit Sharma, Virat Kohli is batting and he's made his whatever, 70th, which he's chasing for century for the last two years, but he's made his 70th century. I know that Jay is a massive Virat fan. I know that you have a card which is a Stashfin card, right? And it's all linked in two. While you're watching the game and he makes that hundred, now's the chance for me to actually put in, you know, during the break and overlay on it, only for you, saying 30% off on Virat Kohli's jersey, from fan code shop, click on it. Your card gets directly linked to it and you get that, your address, everything is there and it gets delivered the next day to you. Now that is elevating your experience in the moment. When you talk about moment marketing, this is not just marketing to you at the right time, but it's also as a user, giving you a tremendous amount of value. Now you can't do that with one crow houses, but it's still, I think the entire experience of how you start doing that, I think that's something that's really going to be, help you elevate user experiences through personalization, both from a marketers perspective, as well as from a consumer who's actually gonna see value in the service. Oh, great, great. I think we are in an interesting time and our experience, like from ways of watching on Doordarshan to what it is gonna be now is gonna be a real game changer. So now I'm gonna put you guys on a spot, okay? And so what I would want to, like, you know, as marketer and you all are gonna be spending big bucks, you have data on one side, okay? Where, you know, you could do your analytics and you could make a decision. And you have sports on the other side, which is very passion oriented, which is, we just got, what, where would you tilt your scale towards? Like today we have the benefit or we are getting the benefit in future of both, but if you had to choose between one, Gaurav, what would you go for? So as a FinTech player, obviously, you know, data is, or you know, the analytic ability is gonna be the most important for me, but what sports is also doing is making things so engaging for the customer because the person, he wants more alone together sort of a phenomena, right? The person might be alone watching something on OTT player, but he's still, or he or she's still with his or her friends on, you know, the OTT platform, interacting amongst each other. So it is the creative challenge, basically, that, you know, when somebody's enjoying the sports and analyzing how your, what kind of data or whatever analysis, like the way we spoke, can actually make the brand fit in very seamlessly. I think I'll put it in that sense. Playing it safe. Shankar, what would you do? Yeah, for, I think I mentioned before as well, in FMCG categories, where you have to be top of mind and mental availability is important. For me, sports will be big. Again, to create that impact, to create associations which are meaningful, playability is an important part for our business. And I think that's where the youth and the kids who consume sports on, say, digital will be relevant for us, and hence, sports is key for us. So individually, I would choose sports. But unfortunately, you know, we have shareholders, we have lots of stakeholders, and I have bosses as well. You have CAAC as well. Yeah, I have CAAC as well. So, you know, for me, I will follow the consumers. You know, I will let the consumers decide if they are passionate about sports. I will have to be passionate about sports. If they are not passionate about any sports, as an advertiser, I can't make them passionate about sports. It's not my job. I just need to follow the consumers. So my answer will be, I'll let the consumers choose, and I'll follow the consumers. Good, being diplomatic. Yannick, how would you want to sell to these guys? Like, given that you're from a platform which is all about sports, what's your take? I, you know, and this is where I think that this entire... I think if you get how sports is different from every other piece of content, I think that's the most important thing. I think the one thing that we are trying to do, and I genuinely believe that, and I've been on the other side also, the brand side, right, that the amount of user information and targeting that a digital platform can give you and doesn't is, I think, sometimes criminal, right? And I think it's done for various reasons, for various reasons, and there are various ways you can anonymize it, even within the current legal framework. Television always had that challenge, right? Because television relied on this third-party data, which honestly had 20,000 people representing 150 million. But you have that data here. So to be able to do that, I actually believe that marketers will pay premiums for specific use cases. So I think there's sometimes a fear that if I start giving out this data, I won't get sales to some, all of this eventually, the marketer has to be able to see ROI. And if you are able to use that to deliver better user experiences, to whatever extent possible, in, I think that's just the most important thing that you can do. And sports, the key difference, as everyone knows, right, is engagement. Sports is that the main thing that has people hooked on to sports is the uncertainty of outcomes, right? The fact that from ball one to the most detail, the end of the game, you don't know who's gonna win, who's gonna lose. And that's what keeps that level of engagement in. Oh, it's interesting, because a lot of times we come to this conclusion that is India a cricket-loving nation, or is it an India-winning nation? You know, because when India doesn't win, the views change. Yeah, yeah. IPL has definitely sort of changed that. So that's what all we have. Is there any questions, anything? Oh my God, okay. My question is that when you talk of data and sports, and you set us a new number of customers, these are new data, what my understanding is that all that AI-ML can give is actually that passion converted to data. I mean, where does AI-ML get its database from? So big data is all about that. So I think it ultimately will go to the customer, kindly clarify if I have right in understanding or not, because I am not a tech person. And then two small questions. I think I'll do it in one go. So the second question is about a very small question, which is you mentioned that the next in queue is football and tennis and all, but I think two sports, both men's and women's, you know, badminton, right, and hockey. India has been doing exceptionally well. So what would be your prediction in terms of the Indian consumer getting interested in those? And both, men and women, both are doing very well. The third one is about the Agbaston test, sir, which is due in two days' time. Is there any way, and now I'm going to the other side, not the consumer customer, is there any way from all the data that we have on cricket to predict, given the, you know, circumstances that first time Bumrah will be leading, Rohit and Rahul will be missing out, and Koli scored 200 runs in the last Agbaston test and I was there in the stadium throughout, in 2018 test. So is there any way to predict cricket results and what would be the impact, expected impact on the consumers as well as the bookies? You know, more of match fixing, more of spot fixing, and what not, you know. So what would be your prediction on those? So these are my three thoughts. Thank you very much for the opportunity. Thanks, thanks. So I'll just sort of summarize your question and the third one I don't know what to do about. But there is a trick in the third one. He hasn't factored the English weather yet in the third one. By any chance, are you investing on Dream 11? No, sir. One, yeah. So one interesting question he had was, like, which is the next big spot? And I think I would like to throw Kabadi also into the ring. But given all this, what's the viewpoint any of you all would like to share? I think for this year, definitely football will make a comeback or not a comeback. It will just be high on volume because of the Qatar World Cup that's going to happen in 2022. I think OTT will go big on that sports, definitely. And I think India is also qualified for Asian Cup. They've, for the first time, they've beaten Hong Kong and teams like those as well. So I would, and there is like a lot of Gen Z and you know, those kind of fan following are growing as well. So I think I would say football, at least for the next one year. Yeah, to me, if I were to think of, I think badminton scores higher. Of course, it also depends on what kind of TG you want to go to. So if I were to look at, say, a Gen Z, Urban, and 18 to 24, I would go badminton. But if I want to go slightly, you know, tier two, tier three cities, I think Kabadi scores decently well there. And I think they've packaged it well as well. So I would split it, basis the consumer on what he or she chooses. And I think basis what my brand proposition is as well. So for me, Kabadi obviously is getting bigger. Reach wise, I think it's getting bigger every year. But if you ask me where I will put my box, I'll put on badminton. And the reason is, you know, because we have started to make stars in badminton. And that's just the beginning. You will see lots of stars being created in badminton going ahead. That's the feeling that I get. Obviously, it's very difficult to predict the future. But I think badminton slowly and gradually next 10 years, it will become a very big sports here. And the other question which he had raised was in terms of data, but that's something which we spoke about with any viewpoint, anything anybody would want to add on to that. No, I think you were bang on. I mean, that's exactly what I meant when I said I will choose the consumers because consumer data will tell me what the consumer is choosing. And if the data tells me consumer is choosing sports, I'll go and choose sports. So I think you were right on the money. And I'll just add one more thing, right? So data can tell you a lot of things coming out loud, but it's really the insights, what you make use of it, the unspoken truth that nobody is actually talking about. And it's a creative challenge. So if you're able to connect with people in a very creative way, in this case, sports fans, I mean, you could have data analysis paralysis, but if you don't have a connect with the right cord, you'll not never get there. Sure. And I think somebody had one more question. Sports fans will say India all the way over. What else? I think it's going to rain. I think there was one more question. Yeah. Thanks. Thank you for the session. So my question is that when we talk about sport, the limelight still continues to be on traditional sports, cricket, badminton. What I want to ask is what is your perspective on esports or online gaming and the growth of this sector when it comes to sport and advertising on sports? Yannick, it's for you. And just to add one layer to it, especially when we look at the cut of younger audiences, right, 18 to 24 when we talk about those audiences, they're consuming a lot of esports. In fact, they're not consuming IPL as much as they're consuming esports. So what is your perspective on that? Yeah, so I think there's obviously a lot of consumption around internet streaming and playing participation on it. I think the key difference, right? And there's a fundamental difference between, let's not call it traditional sport. That's the fundamental difference between esport and sport, which is played in, as you said, traditionally, right, is that most sports consumption of traditional sport is still about this gladiatorial environment of people playing in an offline environment with the stadium, with people. And what you see is the manifestation of representation of that on television, on your mobile and stuff. Esports is, by the way, it's designed, is meant for people to consume on those screens. So I think there's a fundamental shift in that. And we've, at least personally, that our fan club, the way we look at it is it's a completely different consumer habit. They're a different kind of sports fan of cricket, tennis, football, cup of tea, basketball. They are similar kind of characteristics. And esports consumer, who may be the same, they may be overlaps, the way they consume in the sport, the kind of the way they play is essentially fundamentally completely different right now. It's a big difference, not completely different. I also have a point here that, you know, and metaverse is the buzzword, right? And nobody knows what's to be done in such a, with metaverse, but everybody's talking about it. But I think somewhere gaming and esports is definitely one of the things that will be very relevant, because imagine you can create your own avatars, watch metaverse matches going on. I don't know where it'll go, but I think that there is some scope around that channel as well. Thank you. Sure, thanks. I think we've run out of time. The screen's in red right now. Thank you so much.