 This is Think Tech Hawaii. Community matters here. Aloha, Friday, and welcome to Perspectives on Global Justice Think Tech Hawaii program. This is your host Beatrice Cantelmo. About four months ago, guest Renuka Desima graced us with a very beautiful episode titled Elusive Paradise, in which, in gender description, is a marginalization of women and children in Hawaii who were examined. Renuka is back with us this afternoon, and we will have a chance to discuss another facet of paradise in Hawaii, Sri Lanka, and other colonized islands around the globe. Paradise eluded, and how Eurocentric views negatively impacted and continues to impact vulnerable populations, especially children and women. Today, Renuka will help us understand how Eurocentric views negatively impacted vulnerable children, especially girls and women, and how post-colonial caste and levels of poverty contributes to paradise eluded in modern times. We will also discuss how current internal structures sustain the social and political divisive structures that continue to impact the same groups, and how we can have that changed on that note. Welcome back to our program, my darling. Yeah, thank you so much for having me, and I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for coming back. So four months already, I feel like it was, like, four weeks. True. What time go? Yes. So, Renuka, do you mind telling our viewers who did not have a chance to hear you last time? Mm-hmm. Look at the watch yourself. Where you're from, and what do you have to with your studies and where you're based and your collection to Hawaii? Yeah. Well, I do. So, I'm from Canada, I'm Canadian, studying in the United States, but I was born in Sri Lanka and left when I was very young and came actually directly to Hawaii, so I grew up in Hawaii for, you know, I mean, I went to school here, so I had my a few years here before going to Africa, so we've traveled widely, but I'm now back in North Dakota doing my PhD in educational foundations and research, and I'm bringing my research back to Hawaii, so the native Hawaiian population women and also the indigenous women of Hawaii and their health and well-being, so that is going to be my focus. But at the same time, I'm really interested in how colonization had affected these groups of people way back and continues to do so in many aspects politically, socially, marginalization, and I am also interested in looking at other spaces like Sri Lanka rural areas in Sri Lanka and how the girls there are being marginalized post-colonialism and how the structures have transcended now into their social structures and how they're marginalized, re-marginalized again in different ways, so that's something that I'm interested in seeing. So last time you were here, we talked a lot about the engendering aspect of marginalization of women in Hawaii, so just to recap a little bit, let's talk a little bit about that time engendering because a lot of people do not know what that means. So when you engender, so it could be, there are many aspects for engendering, so when certain positions, certain ideologies are sustained through structures, it engenders certain structures or behavior or mindsets, so that's a basic definition of how things tend to engender, but when you have structures in place, so they become social arrangements, so those roles, those roles that women or children or institutions play becomes engendered over time. Now when you look at, last time we talked about women's roles, specific roles that have engendered through Eurocentric worldviews, because when colonizers came here they weren't interested in the structures that were in place here, that meant something to the native Hawaiian population or any other population, they were interested in enculturation or just decimating, not decimated, separating and reconfiguring according to what made sense to the colonizer. So in that, they assigned certain roles to women or children, mostly women, and it was not on par with the men, and everything was geared towards cash crops or bringing in economy, how it would benefit their economies, because remember when the colonizers came, they came in for a purpose, not just to look and say how lovely and let's just leave you alone, it's what can we get from you, how can we change this up to fit our way of looking at things and making money off you, so that meant disrupting a lot of structures that were in place that made sense to the local, the indigenous populations that was meaningful, it was a give and take and respecting the land and that was all taken out. So when these people also left, they left with a legacy of disruption. So that displaced a lot of people and their cultural cultures and their worldviews. So that's the same thing that happened, for example, in places like Sri Lanka and the rural populations, but in a different way. I'm looking at the rural populations mainly because it affected the whole of Sri Lanka, but I'm looking at most of the rural populations because now these structures have transcended in different ways and still affecting education. So let's talk a little bit about the other facets of paradise that we're going to be covering today, the eluded ones. So what does that mean? Okay. So we'll have a break a little bit. Yes. So when we talk about a paradise, a paradise is beautiful. Our concept of a paradise is everything we want, we have, we're given. For example, Sri Lanka. I mean, you look at Hawaii, it was a paradise for a different purpose for the colonizer. So Sri Lanka was another paradise. It had several names, the suspended land, the surrendered from different colonizers who came in, a pearl of the Orient. So, so many names, but it was really their viewpoint on what we can get from these people of this land to benefit us, meaning the colonizer. And so when you're looking at the eluded part I'm looking now from inside out, not outside in. For the people of this land, for the rural people, that concept of paradise, which is… It's farther from the truth of paradise, as we see in Hawaii. Yeah. It's the same thing, right? With all of the disparities, you know, that still is perpetuated nowadays socioeconomically, politically, geographically, education, you know, the lack of access, you know. Right. Equity. Or marginalized access. Or marginalized. So let's talk a little bit about their marginalization, aspecting access, for example, in education, since it makes you expertise. Yeah. So marginalization, you know, when it comes to education, or if you would call certain schools that offer certain programs, I mean, you know, in schools in the bigger cities, the richer where the richer people live, they have more funding. Like I'm talking now the U.S., right? So when you talk about inner-city schools, they don't get the funding that maybe a wealthier neighborhood might, school might get. So you have that disparity there. But in, and so if you look at, if you look at the same problem, same challenge in a place like Sri Lanka, you have the rural population versus the urban population. So in the urban population, you do have the schools, and the education is free up to the elementary level, grade six, I believe. So, and education is compulsory for the first nine years. It's compulsory. So kids do go to school. Kids have to go. There are programs in place. But when it comes to the rural areas, you don't have as many schools. So you have got the demographics of, well, which school is in which area and how far is it? I mean, how easy it is to get to the school. I mean, this is around a lot of the developing nations. So it's not unique to Sri Lanka itself. It's just that I am focusing on the rural education going forward. I haven't really quite started yet. I mean, I have started. It's at the very beginning stages. And I want to also say at this time, a very good colleague of mine from another university, North Dakota State University in DSU. Her name is Tilani Kaushalya, and she is partnering up with me to venture out and do this research. She's an economist, actually. And she's finishing her master's. So that's really good. We plan to go to Sri Lanka next June, June, July. Are you trying to also make a connection between what you find in education and vulnerable populations in Sri Lanka to what's happening in Hawaii? Yes, that is actually my ultimate goal. Not only Sri Lanka. I'm also looking at other places but one at a time, right? I conducted a study like this. My first publication was within a village in Uganda. So I'm really looking at different spaces where you don't hear much about. You know, you've got big organizations going into a lot of the developing nations and coming back with reports. But they're really not in the rural areas where there are huge populations, girls who are not, who are dropping off. I mean, even in Sri Lanka, education is free, as I said. So they're supposed to be in school and the government is very tough if the kids are not in school. But after that nine years, the girls are facing difficulty. And some of these difficulties are not necessarily because perhaps a school is not there. But because of the structures that are in place, which I'm looking at such as caste. So this is a new concept. Not the concept of caste, but does caste play a role, for example, in the educational system within those rural areas in Sri Lanka? And also, I mean, does that have any correlation to poverty? So there are so many dimensions to poverty and education and how they interact and interface. So this is very interesting. And it's the same thing. I mean, in Hawaii, if you look at education and certain groups, vulnerable groups, as you said, the girls, the women, I mean, it's generational, right? So these are coming down. These issues have come down the pipeline. So it's not something you're going to look at it and fix it right away. But we have to really understand the structures that are in place. And for the most part, I think these structures need to be revitalized, really revisited and see why and why not. So some of the structures that are in place, for example, in spaces in Sri Lanka, didn't really exist during the colonizing period, because the colonizer was interested, as in Hawaii, getting the money, the economic stride. So, but now that they're out, they've gone, I'm talking about Sri Lanka in this case, there are other structures that have come up like the caste system. And in some areas, this plays a role in the accessibility or not only the school, the poverty, there's so many, as I said, there are so many dimensions to this. So you can't just say, oh, this, because caste is something also that is really not well understood, I think. And that's why there's a need, I feel, for research. So we're going to take a quick break. And when we come back, we're just going to jump right in and talk a little bit more about the definition of caste and how this all is interwoven with poverty and the whole post-colonial residual, Eurocentric influences that seem to impact the marginalized, vulnerable individuals. Yeah, great. We have this crazy thing going on today. I was just walking by and all these DJs and producers are set up all around the city. I just walked by and I said, what's happening, guys? They told me they were making music. So I did. Welcome back to Prospectors on Global Justice, think Takahawa Ipro. This is your host, Beatrice Cantamu. And I am here back with Renuka De Silva. So Renuka, we were talking about caste. And I think a lot of people, when they think about caste system, they think about India and all of the divisions, you know, poor to rich, roti. But I know that there's more to that. So do you mind giving our viewers the expanded definition and perspective on caste? Okay. So caste, you're right. Caste system is based on how you were born into a certain strata of the population, right? It's, however, in Sri Lanka, caste system is not quite the same as India. Okay. So let me ask you that. That's right. I am glad you did it. So the caste system is based from the days of the kings. Okay. So you have got these caste systems, their names, you can basically tell by a lot of those names are actually gone now because the traditional singhala names bore whatever the job that they did for the king or the court. Okay. So you've got the aristocracy, you've got the land owners, and then you've got all these other jobs that people would have done or their generations would have done, would have performed for the king's court. Okay. So that was based on that. So it's a little bit different from India, I say, because through education, when it comes to education, people have access, right? It's free education. So it doesn't matter which caste you're from, you go to school and you write exams a lot of the times where you end up in life, educationally speaking, academically speaking, job-wise, it's how you've achieved, how you scored on your exams and because exams are marked by a exam number as opposed to a name. So they would know where you're from, what you do for a living, who your parents are, they really don't care. I don't, you know, they don't. So where this affects actually when I was talking about the education, the access and the affecting through education is really in the rural areas, it's within the families, the poorer families within these groups in rural areas who are still on the mindset of how caste, so we don't do this. For example, just looking at the data that's available right now, we see that a lot of the girls are dropping off at grade nine, for example, okay? So, and when you look at it, where are they coming from? It's the parents' belief systems that's getting the girls off, you know, I mean it could be because due to menstruation, for example. So these are things that they believe when it's happening you shouldn't be in school or so they also be a poverty component to it as well because you may be taking off of school sooner to start working. That too, however, look at look at how it is. If you're not in school, okay, if you're not in school, you don't have the education, so where are you getting the jobs? You can't, right? It will be very blue-collar. Exactly, or less, or working in the fields, right? Or less, so then if these children, I mean once they start having kids, they're not educated and it's cyclical, so that's where the poverty comes there are so many dimensions to poverty, I mean there are so many areas that we have to be looking at and right now that is one area now. I want to make sure that everybody understands when I say poverty has something to do with it or education or girls dropping off, there's a huge population from rural areas who end up in university as well, okay? So it really depends on the family structure to most cases. I don't think the parents purposefully say, oh, girls don't need to be educated, girls, I don't think that mentality is there in Sri Lanka. Sri Lanka is one of the world's highest literacy rate, 97 or 98 percent, that is huge. So we value education, they really do, I mean they're proud to have their children going to school, but there are pockets, very large pockets of populations where really the corporations haven't gone in or the government really isn't very active and there are a lot of children, girls, who are not going to school after the compulsory nine-year period because nine years you have to because the government is very tough so that is an area, that's where we need to kind of research and see how can we improve that situation. Right, one of the things as you're talking about how cast influences persons ability to even dream without limits when I first moved to Hawaii, I was quite intrigued when I would meet local people and one of the first three questions that people would ask to another local person would be where did they graduate from high school and I first, you know, in my innocent view I was like how sweet that you can draw back to high school and wanting to make that connection until someone local also explained to me that by, you know, so much of the relationships and opportunities in Hawaii is about who you know and it's so embedded also in the traditions and the class systems that people come from so by asking someone even where they, you know, went to school, high school, they already ceased out to know the neighborhood that you lived in, perhaps, you know, the socioeconomic, you know, bracket that you belonged or your family belonged and the groups that you associate with and know and that that can impact people's relationships and opportunities even in their 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s. Absolutely, that happens all through the United States, right? That's quite shocking to me. That happens more so in these countries where you went to school. When I was a child I went to a certain school and it's a very well-known, really great school so people know I mean you went there, you know, so it brings you a certain amount of status, right? So it's the same thing. What is fortunate is nobody's stopped from going to school family circumstances, poverty and family's needs and their belief systems regarding certain social etiquette or social belief systems causes a hindrance, type of a hindrance, for a majority of these girls, very particularly the girls. I want to go back to one of the intentions of our program also which was to tie in part of the Eurocentric influences, not only back in the days, you know, and how it impacted an agenda that, you know, women and children but how that is still impacting vulnerable populations in modern days. I think it's a very important link to make, especially for people who live in islands like us here in Hawaii, there are a lot of times we say it was such a long time ago that many people do not recognize the areas where it's still so, you know, strong and prevalent influence. I think people forget trauma, no snow bounds. A lot of people think when something happens it's momentary. Let's see what we can do to fix it. No, trauma can be generational. A lot of people don't seem to understand that. So when you have a colonizing effect throughout, I mean, over many, many hundreds of years, that trauma passes on. Truly, look at the United States. You could never call post-colonial. I mean, there are groups that are so marginalized within our borders here, right, in the U.S. So it's the same in other parts of the world. So you have these types of trauma that they're carrying and that their children are carrying. So you may overcome certain situations, but when they're not addressed at the grassroots levels coming in from out here and fixing it, that's momentary. Right. I can't believe it's almost the end of our program, but you're all going to come back and we're going to talk yet, you know, about all the efforts of paradise, because I know that facets, you know, I know that you have, you know, much more to share. But yeah, I do feel that one of the most destructive byproducts of post-colonialism is the racism and the institutionalized racism that prevents certain groups from exiting, you know, like in the government. Hedge money, yeah. Exactly. And so I hope that your studies in Sri Lanka and the connections that you do here in Hawaii also with your studies can help us improve and recognize and unveil more of the institutionalized racism and racism that we see, that Hawaii and Pacific Islanders, especially are faced with, you know, to this day in our community. It's an ongoing task without a due date. It's something that we all need to get involved and ask for change and actually give ourselves to that cause and work with it. Absolutely. Well, the first step is recognition. Absolutely. Once there's awareness, once there's recognition, taking responsibility, there's no change without taking ownership of your problems. Absolutely. And on that note, thank you so much, my darling, for being here. Thank you for having me. And, you know, I'll see you pretty soon. Thank you. And that concludes today's episode of Perspectives on Global Justice Think Tech Hawaii program. And join us again next Friday. And until then, who we hope.