 You know, community matters here in the, well, let's call it the three o'clock flock. On a given Tuesday, we have Christine Linders, she's a physical therapist, and she works for a company called Christine Linders, Physical Therapist. Why am I not surprised? Hi, Christine. Thanks for coming down. Hi, Jay. Thank you so much for having me. So, today we're doing physical therapy below the waist. It's a really wonderful title. It is. It's not what you think. There is body parts below the waist that we need to talk about. Yeah. So, let's talk about, first, let's talk about what is physical therapy? I mean, if I break a bone, you're going to be able to help me? Nah. No. Well, I'd be able to help you after the doctor fixes the bone or sets the bone, then I help get that body part back to working, whether it's muscles, joints, and tendons so that you can function with that now repaired bone. Okay. Muscles, joints, and tendons. That's what you're working on. That's right. They call us the Muscular Skeletor Experts of being a health professor. I think the old thing about the hip muscle is connected to the leg muscle is connected to the foot muscle right over there. That's right. That's what's called the kinetic chain. And it means when your foot hits the ground or a body part hits the ground, there's a series of events that happen from joint to joint to joint when we're reacting to gravity that occur in our body. And we need those things to move as normally as we can for us not to have pain or injury. Yeah. So the first thing is for you to understand what's going on, you have to have this kind of x-ray vision where you can see through the body and you can see the muscles and the joints and the tendons. You can see it all and you can figure out from questions or from asking a client patient what do you call it? A client patient. I call them patients. Some people call them clients. So seeing a patient move and you can also say try this and try that and we'll put pressure on this or pressure on that. And after a while, it doesn't take long, you figure out, you get the x-ray vision working and you figure out what's going on, right? That's right. That's right. I usually start with asking the questions of why they're there, what hurts when it started, was it because of an event, did it kind of come on out of nowhere? And if it's out of nowhere, a lot of times I ask, as I'm starting to watch them move and I start see some of these things with my x-ray vision, I start questioning them based on what I'm seeing. Did you ever sprain your ankle in the past or I look at their back and think, did you ever have a tailbone injury because something looks crooked, it doesn't look aligned? And I ask more questions throughout as I see the dysfunction or the body parts moving and I always find something. People will say sometimes, oh yeah, but that was 10 years ago. But what happens is 10 years ago you fall on your tailbone. It may go a little out of whack, so to speak. In layman's terms, now you keep moving for 10 years. You don't have to play sports. You could just be walking to work, going around your house, doing housework, picking up for kids from school. But you're walking. Remember, kinetic chain, everything's moving from the bottom up. You're walking with something that's out of whack and now your body brain is very smart, is adjusting all your muscles. Compensating. That's right. Ten years later, all of a sudden something hurts and you can't relate it to something that happened recently. It could be something that happened a very long time ago. And that's where the questions as I'm watching someone move come into play because I like to figure out what caused it so I can treat that, not just what's hurting now. Go back to the root cause. That's right. So it could be more than 10 years, 20, 30. It could be in your childhood or something. That's right. And you have been compensating all these years and then you get a secondary effect. That's right. I've had people go back to childhood and had a fall or broke something in their spine and me asked them many times. And on the third or fourth session, they say, you know what? I was, I remember this girl. She was ringing some church bells when she was eight or nine years old as an altar girl. And one of the ropes slipped and she fell on the stair on the altar and cracked one of her thoracic vertebrae because something was off. I'd worked on her for three sessions and I couldn't figure out why. She didn't have a car accident. She didn't have any major trauma. And then I said, what about like years ago? Anything? Oh, my gosh, I thought of what it was. And that made complete sense because her rib cage was off. The thoracic spine and the rib cage connect very intricately. And so that was the thing. I corrected dysfunction and she felt better. Oh, wow. It pays attention to look back. Sometimes you don't need to. In that case, you just described, she didn't remember it first. Then you drew her out. I drew it out. And I think it was part of, I used to know a psychological accountant, a psychiatric accountant. And he said half of his practice was about psychiatry because he had to find out what was really going on. It's like design thinking. You have to find out what's really going on. And what they tell you may not be what's really going on. So you have to get beyond that. You get through that. Sometimes, am I right? Yeah, you're right. They don't tell you what they should be telling you. Sometimes they're actually not telling you the truth as they know it. It's true. They're putting you on. It's true. It's true. Sometimes people don't want to tell you what really happened. They're embarrassed or it was injury that they don't care to discuss with someone who I would be a stranger to them on the first session. And so it helps to keep that line of questioning but developing with poor, poor. I like people. I want to help people. And so I think I get that. So if they're kind of quiet in the first session or the first half, almost, I'd like to say 100% of the time, by the end, they're telling me things and they're things that they didn't say in the first half an hour while I'm working on them or while I'm doing my manual therapy intervention to make a correction on our first session, people start to open up and tell me things. And that probably has to do with your psychological accountant. It's a relationship that you have with someone and there's trust that goes on. And when you feel that someone is caring about the service they're providing, you're more likely to open up and think about those things, especially when they're I'm continuing to ask questions. I don't just stop there. I want to know. I want to figure it out. And I think people get that. Within the hour, if they're closed off in the beginning, they get that by the end. Or they get that by the second session. It doesn't have to be the first time. I'm going to see them again. Yeah. Oh, I love that. So it's actually about liking people. It's about establishing. This is the best way to deal with humanity in general. Establishing different relationships with different people. Treating them as individuals, not as profiled group or anything like that. You said it. You said it. We all are individuals and we all have different bodies, body types, different dysfunctions that we were born with, different injuries that we've had as children, car accidents, you name it. Falls, sports injuries, and we all have different thought processes and emotional processes. So it is a variety all day long on how to get what I need from someone so I can give them the best of me to get them to be able to get back to doing whatever they want. How long does it take you to do that? How many times you want to see them? How often? What do you want them to do when they go home? What are you going to do to follow up when you see them the next time? That's a multiple compound question. I wish I wrote that job. See what you can do with it. OK, I'm going to tell you. So what I want to find out from them is what hurts, where it hurts, when it hurts, and what it's stopping them from doing in their life, whether it's their sport taking up their kid. I want to know what their goal is. And sometimes they don't have a goal other than I don't want to have any more pain. But I want to know, what do you want to do that you can't do right now? Because that's my goal. If it's, hey, I want to go paddleboarding. Have you ever done it before? No, but I want to go paddleboarding. And this injury is stopping me from being able to try. Reminds me of the old joke about, now I'm going to play the violin again. Did you play it before? No. No, yeah, the doctor question, right? Am I going to be Mozart? Did you want to say Mozart? No, OK, well, yes, you can. But then what I try to do is I will try to correct the dysfunction, explain it to them. It's important for me, if you were with me in my office, that I have you look in the mirror and see, J, look, this is crooked. You need to fix this. You're leaning this way all day. Or when you are on your show, you're always leaning like I'm leaning. That's going to set up a process of a habit that's going to cause your body to be abnormal. That's true. It is true. You saw me in your new immediate. That's amazing. X-ray vision, you said it, right? No, but those are the things I like to tell people. I show them in the mirror, and it's always great to see the, oh my gosh, Bob, but that feels weird. I want them to pay attention to how they're moving abnormally during the day. Because if they come out of that, even part of the time, the pain goes down. So I call awareness to those things that I see in the evaluation. Especially when it's not bilateral. When it's not bilateral. When it's favoring one side or the other, you know you've got an issue there. You know you're going to get one if you don't have one now. So that's one of the most helpful things, because that's something people can integrate into their day without spending 10 or 15 minutes doing exercises. But I will give people, OK, now your number one job is to pay attention to this. I want you to think about it. If you have a spouse at home, have them remind you if they see it, or friends at work, have them stop and look. But then I want them to do something corrective like I showed on Movement Matters a couple of weeks ago. They give you one simple exercise that I tell people. It's not a burden. Let's get you going. Let's get you aware of this. You're going to do this thing. And then I also want them to come back feeling better. So I pick the intervention that I know is going to get the most relief for them based on what I attended to in the evaluation so that they come back and say, you know what? I felt less pain. I want that for them when they come there. OK, let's dwell right on that. So suppose they go home and they forget all about it because they're in a busy life. They don't do it, or they don't do it enough, or they don't do it as much as you told them to do it, or they don't do it right. And they maybe forget how to do it. You only with them a little while. And maybe they forget what it's like and only come back to you, I assume, a week later, maybe, or something like that? Yeah, it could be a couple of days, or it could be a week. If I'm seeing it for the first time at the second half of the week. So how do you know if they did their homework or did not do their homework? I don't know when I first meet them. But I used to print out exercises or an exercise for them on one of the programs that they have. With the graphics and the drawing, yeah. My exercises have now become different than they show. And I have a very specific way I want people to do them. So I explain it to them. I get an 8 and 1 1 1 sheet of paper. I write it out. I draw it out. They make fun of my drawings, but that's fun. And it's something novel. It's not a piece of paper that has things that you are used to seeing. It's novel. It's written instructions, a picture, and I think, and it's true in neuroscience, that our brain needs novel cues to make a change. It needs to be something different than we had before. And I find that as my novel thing. I do have people come back and say, oh, I forgot. But that's almost never. It's a very small percentage. Most people come back, the bulk, and say, I was more aware of what you told me to do. Or I did this, but not as much as I should. But I knew I was coming back. So can you review that with me? Or I did it this way. And I say, OK, that's great. But now I wanted you to do this. Oh, that's right. So there's little tweaks that you do because it is hard to learn something new. These are exercises that I've been doing for 23 years. And they're seeing it for the first time. Is it supposed to hurt when they do this? No, it's not supposed to hurt. Just stretching or moving in a certain way? It's not supposed to hurt. When I massage people to loosen up a muscle that is in spasm, and people say that hurts, that oftentimes, I don't want to say it's supposed to hurt. But most of the time, a dysfunctional muscle does hurt when you rub on it. And I tell people, that would be normal if it hurts. And I'm usually poking on something hard that my hand is telling me, that's abnormal. And I ask, does that hurt? Wow, yes, that does hurt. Well, this is why. It kind of feels firm under my fingertips, whereas the other side feels pliable and supple and springy. Yeah, yeah. So when you're doing the exercises, you should not feel pain. And I try to tell people that, does that hurt? And that's why I try it. Oh, that hurts. How about if you do it this way then? How about if you don't do that and you do this? I send them home with something that doesn't hurt, because if I give them something that hurts. They won't do it. And it's aggravating the tissue that they're there seeing me to help. How many times they come and see you? I tend to see people twice a week. Sometimes I see people once a week. It really depends on their schedule. The only time I'd ever seen someone three times a week is if, say, they had a total knee replacement or an ACL surgery or a shoulder surgery that stiffened up. Sometimes people get so stiff after surgery they build a lot of scar tissue and they need to be seen more frequently because their range of motion, if they come twice a week, is just not gonna get there. But that's rare. Most that's a rare occurrence. It does happen. And you see them at a more frequent duration. So how long? For what? Well, how long are the meetings? Oh, okay. And how many weeks? That's a double question. So that varies on the person. So if someone came in with knee tendonitis, I would see them once or twice a week. Probably twice a week. Usually I like to say I wanna see you twice a week for the first couple of weeks. Then we can go down to once a week because I'm gonna be doing my manual therapy and showing them exercise, making sure they know it. But now, if it was up to me, I would love to see them twice a week. But I give people the option. People have a busy schedule. Sometimes with insurance, they wanna draw their visits out. If there's not a date expiration date on the visits, but there's a certain number, they wanna draw them out because they're only gonna get a date. Oh, spread it out, sure, yeah. Spread it out. Let's do four up front, twice a week for two weeks. Then let's do one for two weeks. And then if you're feeling good, we can do one every other week so that you're getting back to your activity and you're still checking into me as you're stressing what I just tried to help you with. Okay, let's talk about below the waist now. All right. I love the title of the show. Me too. Next show we're gonna do above the waist, but today it's below the waist. I like that. Okay, what is below the waist that you deal with that we should be concerned about? Okay, so below the waist, the major joints that we're talking about are your hip, your knee, and your ankle. And then very major but smaller joints are the joints in the foot. There are many. The lower body or the lower extremity as physical therapists or health professionals call it is very important because you walk from one place to another. So if their dysfunction in your foot or ankle, your knee, your hip, it sets you up for dysfunction above the waist. Also affects your life if you can't get around. If you're not ambulatory, oh my goodness, you can't live the ordinary kind of life you hope to live, yeah. You can't, people have trouble getting from point A to point B. I had that trouble when I was living in New York City and I had a stretch fracture in my heel and now I have a fifth floor walkup. I have to be on crutches to get to work and now I'm trying to get a cab, crutching around in the city and it was one of the most difficult experiences I've ever gone through with all the injuries that I've sustained. So I appreciate when someone has a foot or ankle injury because you can't put it on the ground, it hurts and now you still need to go about your day. You need to go grocery shopping on crutches. I had a across the body bag. I would put everything in the bag like I was gonna take it out of the store and then go to the checkout, unload it, pay for it and then go out to the car. It was a challenge and that's the foot. That's the first thing that hits the ground but it's the thing that carries all of our body weight plus the force of gravity. So you better get corrected, whatever it takes. Yeah. Okay, so the hip, let's talk about, I'm going down here, the hip. What could go wrong with the hip and what can you do to fix the hip and what can the patient do to fix the hip? So there's a lot of things that can go wrong with the hip. People can get a labral tear which is the cartilaginous ring that supports the ball in the socket. People can get tendonitis from running. You get sciatica which is an inflammation of the sciatic nerve where it pierces through your piriformis muscle. Runners that have hip weakness or have had a back injury or an unstable foot can have sciatica because the piriformis muscle now tries to overwork to control the leg which you'll see in some of the pictures that we're gonna talk about later and people get piriformis syndrome. They get the iliotibial band syndrome which is a tendon that runs from your hip to the outside of your knee when it attaches to a muscle that's right up at the top of your hip. The muscle is like about as long and as fat as my thumb. She's pointing to her right hip. Talking about a muscle that runs down from the waist just below the waist. All the way down. All the way down. Down on the outside. It doesn't go on the inside though. That's another muscle that goes on the inside. That's another muscle. That's another muscle. All right. And so people can get hip arthritis as well. They can get it from trauma and injury. You can get it from genetic issues that you've had. People have a shallow socket sometimes or a square peg in a round hole or vice versa where the socket wasn't formed for a full ball and a full socket. And you can just get osteoarthritis if you're prone to it or rheumatoid arthritis. So is rheumatoid arthritis reversible? That's a good question. Rheumatoid arthritis, no. Osteoarthritis, no. Although that might be a better question for the regenerative medicine. But what I do with my patients that have, let's say severe hip arthritis, I've seen golfers with severe hip arthritis. What happens when you get hip arthritis is it's a wearing away of the surfaces. So the ball may not be smooth and round. It may be more like my fist. Or the socket may have pits like craters in the moon. And so as you move through your day and the ball moves to the socket, it bumps into exposed bone because that cartilage isn't covering anymore. But also it's the altered mechanics. The head of the hip can move forward and start rubbing on that and give you more arthritis. And where I come into play is I start restoring their normal mechanics. I have a few exercises where I call it the reseeding of the head exercise which helps to stretch out the posterior joint capsule of the hip where the big glute muscles are and get the ball to sit back in the socket. And then the arthritis is still there but it's not touching the arthritis because the arthritis is where all the abnormal joint mechanics were moving similar to what happens at the knee. This is really very helpful, Christine. You know the thing about videos, you don't have to make notes, you just listen to it again. Yeah, that's right. I like that about this. You catch all the nuances. Okay, and then the muscle on the inside, is that from the hip also? Yeah, the muscle on the inside runs all the way down from your pelvic bone down the inside of your knee. There's many muscles, they call them adductor muscles. There's also hamstrings that are just behind the adductor muscle, again, running same distribution. And then of course your large quadricep muscle in the front of your thigh. There's those that come right down the center of your knee as well. So this is a serious problem. I mean, how long does it take to fix something? Let's say I fully cooperate with you, I do everything you want me to do and then I come to see you once every few days and you need it as necessary. That's spelled K-N-E-A-D. Need it as necessary? Yes, yes. Okay, how long does it take me to get out of the woods on that? I think that it could be anywhere from four visits to four months depending the severity of your injury. Can I run while this is happening? I like to keep my people doing what they love as long as it's not making them worse and as long as they're getting better. So runners, tennis players, athletes, walkers, everybody that's paddlers, whoever, everybody that's doing everything, if they're doing it and they're saying it hurts worse, well then we, I do an intervention, have them try it. Does it feel better? Ooh, yeah, that didn't hurt afterward. Okay, great, so I'm gonna keep you doing what you want but if there's a point where you are sore and you're not getting better, I'm gonna have to stop it for a couple weeks. The reason why I don't like to stop things, if it's not making them worse and if they continue to get it better with what I'm doing with them, is because other things get weak. And then people go back and I know from personal experience when you're resting something, now you go back and a lot of your body has lost that sport specific training to whatever you're doing, whether it is walking or lifting your kids and now people come back with some other problems. So I'm very smart about it, it's very individual, I'm open communication with whoever I'm working with at the time, I'd like to keep you doing this, but if this is happening then we're gonna have to take a break. It's a relationship, it's interactive, it's communication, all that stuff, thinking of which, it's time, it's time for our pictures. Okay. We're gonna show some pictures now and Christine's gonna tell you what they mean and what we can learn from them. There's the picture, first picture. First picture, so with this picture, let's look at the left leg, which is the leg that's on the ground on your right side. So if you look at the ankle and the foot and then you go up to the knee and then you go up to the hip and then you go up to the shoulder, it's in a relatively straight line. That's normal mechanics for doing like a single leg squat, stepping down, going down a stair. Now if you go to the neck shot. What role does the dog play in all of that? He wouldn't stop coming into the field of vision. So a psychic benefit, okay, next picture. To feel good. So this picture shows, if you look at my hands, you can see that one hand is lower than the other. When I see that in the clinic, that means that that hip on that side is having a function problem. Interesting, interesting. Observe, you have to be very observant to see that. I wouldn't notice that. I show people in the mirror all the time because whether you're coming to me with knee pain or ankle pain or you have a disc injury that's making that muscle weak, you're gonna have knee pain. You're gonna have plantar fasciitis if you're a runner. If you're a young girl playing volleyball and landing or a basketball player or someone, a baseball player throwing, that sets someone up for an ACL injury because the foot bones connected to the knee bone and the thigh bone, right, that's the jingle. So if you see, now my knee is inward of my hip. So the alignment is off and that puts a great amount of strain on the structures, the non-contractile structures, the one that don't stretch, which is your ligaments like your ACL, your medial collateral ligaments, your plantar fascia, your menisca, your menisca, that puts extra strain and that's where abnormal motion over time for arthritis causes wear and tear that causes arthritis. So people don't know they have it, they've never injured their knee. They come into me and I see this and I say, well, I know why you've got arthritis because now your knee bones have been twisting like this every step you take, every stair you went down, every time you've bent down to get something out of the stove. And now you have wear and tear that's caused you, you're hurting yourself but you've never injured yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. On this picture you have a model on that picture. Now the model demonstrates that she has an imbalance on her hip, do you have to pose that or does she really have an imbalance? I had to pose that but that person did have an imbalance. Getting stoned by picture number one is corrected now. That model is trying not to injure her knee for this talk to show it to people because it's important to see it, you know. Will you say everybody has something? You know, I make a comment about Olympic athletes. And I say that everybody has something for the most part, but when you get these bodies that are working so well, like someone that can get to the caliber of Olympics, their joint and body alignment has to be as close to as symmetrical as possible for them to avoid career-ending injuries, which is why other people that would be Olympic hopefuls never get to that point in their career. That's the difference. That's the difference. So not everybody has something maybe musculoskeletal. Everybody has something in their body that they may find out when they're 90. Maybe they have tooth problems. It doesn't have to be physical. But the Olympic athlete is the analogy that I make because they move as close to normal as possible, which is why they can exercise for six to eight or whatever hours a day that they do. They're not hurting themselves. For years to get to that level and not be done. Let's talk about the next picture. We have another picture. All right. Okay, so this shows foot collapse. It's difficult to see, but one of the culprits giving someone a knee injury is having the arch overprone or drop down. It's difficult to see, but in that case, this case right here, the foot is rolling in and taking the knee with it. And that is one of the number one reasons that runners have knee problems. IT, band syndrome, patella tendonitis, hip pointers, or trochanteric bursitis, which is pain on the outside of your hip. This motion right here, when someone is running, causes the piriformis syndrome. If it's gonna happen to someone, and I don't know if you can see, but now my shoulders are outside of where my knee is. So my spine is also bending now. So it sets me, it sets the model up for a disc herniation or back pain as well. How do you fix that? You fix that, you strengthen what's weak, you stretch what's short. People that pronate like that? Strengthen, this is gonna be a final exam. You strengthen what's weak, and you stretch what's short. Yeah, so people- I think you should write that down. Write that down because people who have tight calves or short calves, meaning your muscle is so tight on the back of your lower leg that your ankle doesn't move through the amount of range of motion that is normal. When that happens, the foot, the foot now will over pronate because the ankle doesn't have enough range of motion. And when the foot pronates, it takes a shin bone and rotates it in, and now the knee is sitting there and then the femur bone has to rotate in and you see what you saw in that picture, which is the knee going in, my body leaning over to the other side to compensate because you're trying to get that balance point. And all the balance is lost at that point. So if I'm a runner and they have a shiatsu place at the end of the run, does that help? It does help. It does. It doesn't fix the weakness and it doesn't make the joint. But you feel good anyway. It feels good because you get the, I call it pump and drain sometimes where the muscle has been working, working, working. It's 10 cents and then you pump and drain. So any lactic acid or inflammatory products that have built up because the muscles under strain or under load may be abnormal because the road is angled and you're running, that helps to pump it out. It actually decreases the amount of soreness you have the next day to get that pump and drain. Cheaper would be we're in Hawaii, jump in the ocean, let the ocean do the pump and drain and flush all that out of your system. How do you recommend that to people? I recommend that to people. All right, next picture. Okay, I'm really learning a lot here. I'm glad. So this is a jumping person. So this person is jumping from landing. So they just shot the basketball. They just spiked a volleyball. They just hit a big tennis serve in their landing. Now on the left side of the screen, which is the right knee, you can see that the angle goes in. On the other side, it's still straight from the ankle to the knee to the hip. Young people and older athletes, this is how they blow out their ACL. Is the knee goes inward and that non-contractile ligament cannot control that the tibia, the lower leg bone is moving in and then the femur bone, which is the upper leg bone is going the other way. So that's something that needs to be trained out. Now in this photo, you don't know whether the foot is doing it or the hip is doing it because it's not a movie. In a movie, I would look at it a couple of times and see, oh, wow, the hip's dropping, or oh, wow, your ankle is rolling in and taking the rest of your leg with it. We have to fix that. Now once they know, once you tell them, then presumably they're aware of the problem and the origin of the problem. And does it help them? I guess it does to know how the mechanics are working on this. It does help them. A lot of people have that epiphany where they say, oh my gosh, wow, I didn't know that my foot is turning out on this one side or, wow, I see that my knee is going in, but I've always done that. And I tell them, you may have always done that, but you need to try to make it more towards normal because if you keep always doing that on that one side, you're gonna keep having the joint structures rub against themselves not where they're supposed to. Let's say it's the knee and the foot is going in, the knee's going in, you're gonna rub like this and then people get osteoarthritis on one side or they wear them in meniscus. Honestly. If you turn it straight and it's more towards normal, now it's rubbing here where it should be, which is closer to normal joint mechanics. Yeah, and you can run for longer and when you get older, it's not gonna fall apart on you. That's right. It's really important. Have you got any more pictures or what? Yeah, there's more pictures. Let's go quickly. I think. Okay, so we got the strengthening exercises now. Is that what we wanna go to? Yeah. Okay, so this is one of my favorites for isolating, mostly isolating the gluteus medius muscle, which is the muscle that if you stand on one leg, keeps your pelvis level, so you don't have that drop where I showed in the image earlier. So I have people pull their toes up with a bander on the ankle or not. You can do it laying on the floor, laying on your bed with no band and still feel it. You pull your toes up, you press your knees down, you squeeze your glutes as tight as you can and then you push into the surface, bed, floor, whatever, and you slide out to the right, keeping your toes pointing to the ceiling. The gluteus medius muscle works primarily moving the leg to the side when you're not on your feet, but it also does some rotation and some movement backward, but primarily to the side. Now, when you're standing, the gluteus medius has a huge role. It keeps the pelvis level on the leg. So when that pelvis dropped, that gluteus medius is not strong enough to stabilize it there, which is how I'm teaching it to operate in that photo. How long you've been doing this? I say 23 years, but it was 97, so it's actually 22. You don't look, you know, look, you don't look 23, but okay. My dad was a scientist. He began at a very early age, I graduated college at 15. And you studied physical therapy? I studied actuarial science. And then I didn't enjoy the desk thing, so I went to physical therapy and it really interested me. Well, you know, it does sound fairly complex to me. Yeah. And I suppose if you're motivated to fix yourself, as you're motivated to be healthy and not degenerate, you pay attention. Yeah. Well, Christine, thank you very much for coming down. Thank you. I'm very elucidating and I'm not sure what I'm gonna do. Maybe I'm gonna try some of these things. Maybe I'm gonna become a physical therapist myself and see if I can do what you do. No. I think that's a great idea. Joke, joke. Thank you, Christine. Thank you so much today. It was my pleasure. It was great fun. Aloha. We'll do it again. Absolutely, I look forward to it. Love the waist, yeah.