 This is Think Take Away, I'm Chuck Crumpton, it's time for Responsible Change, and we're going to talk about some of the assaults on democracy and where they're coming from and where they might be going and how we might hopefully have some of those off at the past. We're extremely fortunate to have with us today retired state judge Sandra Sims, also a noted author and community leader, Huizing, a very highly respected civil litigation attorney, partner in a large law firm and women's rights advocate for many years, Bill Harrison, a leading criminal defense and civil rights attorney here, and Tina Patterson, a mediator, arbitrator, carbon planner, and master of many trades from New Jersey. Luiz, yesterday you folks put on a program that the recording will be available soon. Can you tell us a little bit about that so the viewers can be on the lookout for it? Sure, Chuck, and thank you so much for those of us, those of you who did have the time to tune in. It was our firm Denton's Smart Cities Connected Communities Think Tank Forum, and I was lucky enough to be invited to be a part of this one, which was focused on the pillar of social equity in communities, and our firm's energy practice group had Clint Vince has been organizing the Smart Cities Think Tank sessions on just all manner of issues that affect our cities and the future of our communities. And what I loved about this one was that he drew together a very diverse panel, a leader from the Hispanic community, the black community, a colleague of ours who's a law partner, an Asian American individual, Bob G, who's been very active in at the national Asian American community politics scene. And then another partner from the who's a has been active in LGBT and marriage rights. And so we just talked about the issues facing our particular, you know, our respective communities. I think what came out of it and was a really nice, well, email from one of the panelists was that even though we came from different perspectives, so many of us, we all shared common thoughts about the issues facing the country in terms of, you know, the politics of division versus the need to recognize diversity and the kinds of things that we as citizens and community members should be and could be doing. So Luis, let me ask, why are those conversations about a still very controversial set of topics among such a diverse range of participants, panelists? Why are those important now? What might they help accomplish? Well, I think perhaps fueled by the pandemic and by, you know, the last four years of very divisive rhetoric and politics, it just seems like the divides in our country have come to a head in so many ways, whether it's racial, economic, and we see that manifested in just almost the daily assault of news stories, you know, anti-Asian violence was one of the triggers for how I got on the panel. But, you know, before that was, well, in the midst of that, there was whole Black Lives Matter. Before that, there was just a whole history of assaults on various racial groups. And not to mention just violence in general. We talked last time about the violence in Boulder. And there's just so many of us want to be able to say that we can go back and enjoy our communities and cities without being afraid of infection, violence, or just being targets of racial violence. So I'm really glad to see that there's conversations going on at so many levels nationally in our community among corporations. So it's an important time. We need to sort of heal the divisiveness that has really plagued us for the past few years. So Tina, Sandra, Bill, what are some of the important conversations among diverse leadership people that you're seeing happening and need to happen? Well, what I'm seeing happening is that people are speaking out as to what's going on in the political scene with regard to voters' rights. That's a big area that people are starting that conversation on and recognizing what that really means to our society. It's the basis of representation and community voices. And it's really appalling that we are having to deal with this issue at this point in time after this most recent election, that people are dissatisfied with the outcome of election and trying to tinker with the system that's been in place since the beginning of our country. And they're trying to use it to further divide the country and to get a one-up upsmanship on certain segments of the community. And that's really disheartening. And so the conversation has started. And I think that we need to continue that conversation. Tina, Sandra? Yeah, here in Hanoi, I think that's very true, Bill, but here in Hanoi, I know I'm still working with the Judiciary and the State Bar Association and Judiciary History Center on the racial equity series that we began in January. And we finished up on the last of the discussions and we're in the process of preparing for the roundtable. And what we've learned there and what we've seen there is by the sheer numbers of people participating that there is a real desire for people in our communities to begin to address these issues. We're also seeing a great diversity of the agencies and entities that are involved in injustice being a part of this from the prosecutors, from the prison reform, from the organizations within the communities, the NAACP, the JACL, the Japanese-American Citizens League for those that are listening and not aware of that. And Popola Project and many, many others. We are Oceana, which is an agency that's involved in addressing issues within our Micronesian community, which are very serious as well. We're all looking at health issues. We're looking at people involved in public safety, police departments, and all of them are being a part of this discussion because we have to have this discussion. We have to address these issues. Our communities, our state, our nation is at risk. It's that this is we just have to do it. And I'm pleased, though, that there are so many people, again, demonstrated by Denton's involvement and some of the involvement that Bill and others have seen, that there are people interested and ready to take a stance. And that's very encouraging to me. And I think we're going to get through it. And we've had some wounds opened and exposed and things in our community that we need to address. Mental health is among them. Gun violence is among them, as well as the issues regarding racism and violence against Asians and what blacks have been experiencing all this time. But all these things are being exposed and seen and known. You can't unknow it, you know, someone who just sort of wanted to just think that these things just don't happen around me. You have to see it and you have to know it. And it's really kind of calling upon more people to have to say, I've got to take a stand. I can't just be silent and just, you know, let it just slide past. You can't be silent. You have to be there. That's perfect. And Tina, if I may ask you, what are some of the conversations and the people and entities speaking up now that we had not seen before might not have been expected to? So I'm in Maryland and the District of Columbia, Maryland and Virginia. We're seeing more interaction, intergenerational, but also among the faith community, business community, as well as for profit groups and people and organizations coming together and saying, how how can we work collaboratively? And I think Sandra brought up a good point right now. The the the theme is stop Asian violence, but this is not new. And depending on where you live and the demographics of your community, Asian violence has been happening. And I think Andrew Yang described it perfectly. This is not new. The only difference now is it's in the news and it's it's been probably recorded or someone videotaped it and hit social media. So the the players now are again, intergenerational. You have you have faith communities coming in and saying we need to support our people. We have groups who have been have been partners, saying it is not just a nice to do. It's unnecessary. It's a must. This is not we want you to go out and and support a particular candidate. This is your life is at risk and we need you to support and solidarity. And so it's that message of solidarity versus a siloed effect. Black Lives Matter, Asian Lives Matter, everyone's life matters. Every person of color, life matters. And when we look at and I think about the book How Democracies Die, what we're seeing is almost a page out of that book. So when you have literally impacted one group, you move to the next group. Then when that group has been impacted, you move to the next group. So right now we have multiple conversations going on. And when we bring to a focal point saying this is happening in my community, this is happening in your community, do we see the common thread? And that's the conversation that I'm hearing. It's it's unsettling at the same time because people are seeing commonalities, but it's also helpful and a step forward because. I think about the old adage, a house divided never stands. So if we are unified and we're all looking at if I'm out and Louise is having is being hassled, I need to speak up. And I would hope that the same person would do the same for me or someone would be the same for me and also our younger people. How how can you be? And I know this word is used a lot. How can you be not just an ally, but an advocate? That's what I am seeing. And I'm glad for it. It is I think the other part is understanding that this is not a race. This is not going to change overnight. And we have to be both steadfast, but we also have to be firm. And it may mean and we've been the other conversation I've been hearing is on the economic side. Are you supporting a business that's not supporting you, the group that you you identify with? Why are you using your precious hard and income to give to that organization? And I am not going to mention any organizations in this recording. But, you know, I make a conscious decision when I go grocery shopping. There's some companies I no longer purchase their goods. It's made me a little bit more. Innovative in terms of how I cook, but it's to me, it's the statement. And for businesses, it's about your bottom line. So my 10, 15 dollars combined with five other people combined with five more people, it starts to add up and it makes a business rethink. That's really it's a really valuable insight because one of the things that people in agriculture and retail and travel industry and others have reflected is that the pandemic didn't so much change as accelerate and augment the direct connection between providers and consumers. And there just wasn't room for the delay or expense of the middle entity or person. And we're seeing a recognition not only among the providers of goods and services, but the consumers that their voices count and the technology of social media is making available. Viral responses to things who could have imagined not 10 years ago, five years ago, one year ago, one month ago, who could have imagined that Major League Baseball would pull the all star game out of a state because of the voter suppression law and their disputes about how extensive that voter suppression is. But it's serious enough and it generated enough adverse reaction among the public, the consumer base that probably the largest athletic entertainment industry in the world has pulled its signature event and placed it in Colorado. Chuck, we saw something similar several years ago with the NBA and Charlotte. So I do think that there is there's something to be said when we're talking about these franchises. Again, it's back to the dollars and cents. If you know that people are not going to visit your your destination, it not only hurts that specific facility, but it's the hotels. It's the restaurants. It's the people who may made the trip a more extended stay and those revenues that are coming to your destination. Um, does it always have to be this large scale? Absolutely not. But it does. I think it's something that we need to talk about more. And we saw this in the 60s, where economic boycotts and staying away was one of the ways that you usually got an institution's attention, whether it was, I'm not going to invest in your company. I'm not buying your stock or I'm selling your stock or I'm not coming to your store or I'm not going to use your particular service. And again, back to the bottom line. But oftentimes the people that we back to the topic of violence are these necessarily the individuals that are acting out that are engaged in these acts of violence? Not always. It's not the person who has the who owns the facility where the basketball game takes place or the baseball game is taking place. It's the person that you sit next to in the office or the person who lives around the corner from you. What do we do there? Yes, yes. And that's the troubling part of it is that while we are seeing these, you know, stances taken by, you know, the major entities and the people who are part of those as well. Well, we are not getting and not seeing clearly is that person sitting next to you, that person that's going to be the one that, you know, pulls off the gun or pulls off the knife for as we just saw today, you know, charges into a nail salon and starts harassing people. How do we? What do we do about that? I mean, certainly we take a stance in support of, you know, the people who are working there. Tina said, you know, you're going to stand up and say something. But there's still these little. Pockets where these incidents occur and, you know, you you have to begin to wonder what brings a person to a place to make that kind of a stance. I mean, that's one of the questions I keep asking. It's like, OK, you know, we understand, you know, Major League Baseball taking a stand. We understand, you know, companies saying I'm taking this posture, taking this position. But how do we talk to that person is running around with the, you know, with the with the ability to do harm? Right in our midst, I don't I don't I don't know that I have a. I don't have an answer. I don't have an answer for that because I'm still not totally comprehending that. But maybe it's not a question. Maybe it's a condition. Maybe it's a habit, a pattern when the president of the country incites hundreds of people to organize weeks and months in advance and plan and travel hundreds of miles to gather. To physically, violently, invade and threaten and intend to harm. Law enforcement, elected officials. And after that happens. Hey, prominent elected leaders out of one side of their mouth, say. Those who are impeachable offenses out of the other side, but I'm not going to vote to convict him because he still manages and controls the donors and the money, and I need that for my political. Gain and purposes, maybe we're at a point. Where the erosion of. All respect. Or almost all respect. For those political leaders has reached a point. Where people are lashing out, how do we counter that? Well, you know, I think that we all have a personal responsibility to to one another and that that became evident when you know, this this poor lady was kicked and beaten in the street when people closed their doors and walked away. And that's not the first time. I mean, I remember as a young man, the same thing happening in New York City, where a woman was actually physically beaten and raped and people was watching the whole episode and no one took personal responsibility. And that goes to like the fabric of our community. We as a community must take responsibility for one another. And I think it starts from there. And if we start doing that, I think from that point on, we can build on that and make sure that things like this don't happen. And a lot of these these situations, we have people come forward and say, well, I knew this guy and he said this and he did that and everything else. And they didn't come forward. No one came forward. And if someone had done that and taken personal responsibility for that knowledge and sharing that knowledge with the appropriate authorities, maybe that incident where people were were killed, eight people were killed wouldn't have happened. Maybe there would have been some intervention that took place. And I think that's where we need to begin, is with that personal responsibility. We're seeing that in the Chauvin trial. It's, you know, and I'm the good part is it's bringing to the national for the fact that here are these people that, you know, had the presence of mind to film what was going on. But now they are coming, having to deal with their own sense of guilt of just not having taken more steps to intervene. And, you know, the other point, I think we had raised this in a couple of weeks, go with gun violence is exactly what you say, Bill. Is that sense of personal responsibility? And how can us, you know, a bystander safely intervene or a family member? I mean, it just seems like there's so many times we hear about an act of violence and it's by these troubled, often youngish men who have had psychiatric or other incidents in their lives. Maybe there were red flags, but, you know, people either ignored them or or didn't recognize them for what they were. It's frustrating. Well, it leads to the question, right, which is. You look at the way that the defense is conducting the Chauvin trial. And they are clearly making statements that are manifestly untrue. They are perpetuating that sense, that pattern of the big lie that for four years, people thought worked for them and that a number of our leaders, whether it's George's Governor Kemp or Mitch McConnell or somebody else, they're still doing that. And they're still feeling like they have complete impunity in getting away with it. Is there a connection between the assault on truth and the addiction to violence that results in assaults on completely unknown, undeserving people? I think so. I do, I think so. And I think that the the nexus is the sense of power and the sense of losing power. I there's a video I'm currently enrolled in a anti racism workshop. Actually, it's not a workshop. It's a training program. And the very first video is a picture of a African American male saying to the camera. Social justice and inclusion for me doesn't mean there isn't social justice for you, and it's OK. And it makes you smile, but at the same time, it makes you think at the end of the day, it's about the power. It's about that if you want to use one of the more popular images cast, it's the pyramid. As the pyramid starts to break down, if you are in the top echelon of that pyramid, does that suddenly mean that you're at the bottom? Do we still have the stratification or do all those stratifications move away? And if you've been told for years, or you've known, or it's been intrinsically part of your your thought process that if we take the stratification away, my identity of who I am and what I am goes with it. And how dare you person who is not part of this stratification try to take my seat? And the answer to that is I'm not trying to take your seat. I just need a seat and there's plenty of seats around here. That's right. That's a good point. Yeah, that was right on. And it's an issue that was raised in that smart cities. Think, Pat, you know, our country is diversifying. And those people, the people who have been in power and kind of expected to be in power or have that privilege are, you know, they're they're not lacking that because all of a sudden it is under threat. And they're they're afraid of the change. And so that's it seems like that's part of the dynamic of what we're seeing in this acting out and acts of violence. Louise, I think that's interesting because I was part of a discussion group on Monday and I shared the same sentiment, but here's the thing. The U.S. and the world has known since the late 60s and 70s. Sociologists predicted that the U.S. would brown and I'm talking about in color amount of melanin that the languages that would be spoken globally would be Spanish and Chinese. That in the U.S. Spanish would be the second language. And there were those who said, oh, those sociologists, what do they know? That's a silly idea. And here we are. We saw this in the 90s, where we were being told by those who were looking at total quality management and how we can be more efficient that, hey, you should learn to speak Spanish or at least learn to read it. Or, you know, there's a growing number of people who speak Chinese. You might want to learn to speak Chinese. Oh, please forget that. And now we have communities. I'm in one of them where we're using terms like majority, minority to which I've asked my team not to use and to say we have that instead we have a majority. And the majority is people of color. And again, this is back to the power differential. Wait, you're in the majority. Do I have to give up my seat? Absolutely not. But when you think about who's at the table and you're telling me that your community, your structures of power represent the people that you serve. And it doesn't, we need to make some changes. And again, this doesn't mean that you have to leave, but it certainly means that that person needs to be able to pull up their their folding chair or take take a seat next to you. However, you want to make that happen. The table is big. There's plenty of room at the table. The table can accommodate everybody. I think that's another big part of the big lie, as trucking fortune, is this notion that if I'm, you know, if I if I'm fear of losing something means because it's not enough and there is enough. We there is enough in this country to get done anything. We absolutely want to get done. There is enough. There's enough room. There's enough jobs. There's enough. There's enough food. There's enough means to there's enough means to health care. There's enough ways to achieve to get kids, our kids educated. There is enough. We just not had the means to distribute that power, that information in the past. And we people have just rested on that. Yeah, it's my I've got my, you know, kind of screw you. But it's there's enough. There's enough for everyone to get to accomplish what we need to be a great nation. And we've seen that in some studies on, you know, if diversifying corporate boards where, you know, they say that when the more diverse your board becomes, it actually improves your economic performance. Absolutely. So that's a powerful study and result. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think that's that's a good place for us now that we're out of time. We wind up today. We got a wonderful question from a viewer about how do we distinguish between whether a corporate action is principled or whether it's just performance. And she by, as we call it here, and we can get to that next time. And we hope you folks will come back and join us. And there are many, many or conversations to be had. The more diverse and plentiful you are and the more you participate, the better these get. So we welcome you all. Thank you for joining us. Remember to help support think tech Hawaii, which makes these difficult conversations possible. Therefore, all of us and all of you are welcome in them. Thank you all.