 Hello everybody, I hope everybody is in place and we can start now. Welcome, Willkommen and Bienvenue. I'm absolutely delighted to be a host for this international ETC conference. My name is Annette Gerlach, I'm a journalist for the French-German Broadcast. The other wise, just to give you a frame, I grew up with pieces from this wonderful directors like Peter Stein, Klaus Michael Gruber or Patrice Chéro. And in the more recent time, of course, Thomas Ustermeier or Falk Richter, because I'm a Berliner living in France, but I know this were all man. Our topic today has no time or gender limits. We have two hours to talk about ways and opportunities for the theater to go green. As you all know, the European Theater Convention is the largest network of public theaters. The 13 members are joining us today and we're absolutely thrilled to have you all here this morning, definitely not a theater hour, 10 o'clock in the morning, and you're joining us from 28 countries. What a public. This is the second international theater conference to take place online and we are really keen to open up the format. And by the way, to reach out larger public, of course, the online format is great, but I think we all agree that we would rather prefer to meet in a wonderful theater location and see us really end in life. And by the way, you will meet the wonderful people from the Hungarian theater where this meeting was originally planned a little bit later. The discussion can be followed on this ETC Zoom platform for the ETC members and for a wider audience on the whole round theater comments website, and on the ETC Facebook channel you will find the link in the chat. The program let's be totally clear is just beginning a mark to start a long term focus on the topic of system sustainability and green theater at the ETC. This is not a sprint. This is a marathon we are starting today. I'm curious and eager to discuss this expert in environmental protection and people from the theater field to share their experience and good ideas how theaters can go green. If you please dear public you are very much invited to be also a part of the discussion. You can write your questions in the zoom chat with the Q&R button. All the comments comments in the live streamed video on Facebook, it's up to you but please give your input you can start right now. We will make a little selection of all of this and people try to give a feedback of your input a little bit later this morning. Without further ado, let me right now introduce you to the Executive Director of ETC Heidi Wiley and the President of the ETC Board and General Manager of the Theatre de Liège in Belgium, Serge Rangoni. Heidi, ladies first. Thank you very much Annette. Well, you know, the pandemic has shown from one day to another, it's possible to shut down all theaters to stop all of our activities and to stop international collaboration in Europe the way we knew it, and not only in Europe around the world. So, what will be the consequences and lessons that we withdraw from this situation when designing the next decade for international theater collaborations in the ETC Europe's network for theaters. In other words, if our raison d'être can be taken away from one day to another, it's very important to have a political voice in today's society to remain visible, first of all, to remain relevant, and also to be sustained, both on national but also very much on a European level. We know theater is fundamental for society, but beyond entertainment, it also has a strong educational purpose, provoking our thoughts, our critical thinking, and our social dialogue, and discussions in the last months about systemic relevance of our sectors in society have demonstrated it's not only important that we live, but also how we live and the longer the virus stays with us, we have to make sure that theaters didn't place a vital part for this later quality. So for us in ETC designing the next decade is first about surviving the pandemic as a sector. And second, it's to continue playing an important role in society bridging with theaters across borders, cultures and languages to bring different perspectives in our communities with an increased support and recognition needed to sustain our sector. So to summarize, the most important lesson so far for us was that we learned it will be actually not the way it used to be before, it's become quite a common consensus that after COVID-19, we won't go back to life as it was before. And ETC will remain committed to championing justice, democracy and cultural collaboration through theater. And our work will be based on the three principles of the more sustainable, the more diverse, and digital use of our resources to create, present and sustainable will be crucial for all of our actions, our working methods, our business models, a way of creating international theater collaboration. And it was also one of the key subjects that was in the recent European Theater Forum. In other words, it's a natural progression for us to make also environmental protection central to our strategic development. And that is that it's the beginning of a marathon that we are now undertaking, like everyone else in society and I'm very delighted that we will be joined today by various experts to learn from each other, share knowledge and start the process of sustainable transformation. Thank you so much, Heidi. Well, well said. Serge, up to you to give us a little insight. So you are the theater, you're not only the president of the ETC board, but you're also the general manager of the Theater de Liège in Belgium. So what efforts had been made, for example in Belgium or around your theater on this long way to go green? Unfortunately, not a lot. Because for different reasons, because the system of theater need obviously to have new performances, new productions to true and so on. So it's very difficult to change the process of making theater. On the other hand, the building, I have the pleasure to be in a new built building in 13 and nothing has been made to climate control and so on. Nothing has been made. Why? Because in most of the European countries, it's the same situation, because the public support goes to individuals, houses. The public buildings, it's very rarely thought because they are higher and so nothing has been made. So probably the only field in which we see that the topic of climate change are really taken is on the stage by artists. Sometimes with some contradiction, because you have some artists who are speaking about climate changing, but you need three tracks to do a revolution. So sometimes it's a little bit difficult. I think in this moment now, because we are stopped for a long time, we have a moment to reflect and to act and to see where there are good examples that we can learn and reproduce and probably go further. I think this is really something that we have to do now. And it's the reason why with ETC, we were all of us, we agreed already before, but more today really to share these questions and to find ways to be better on this issue. Thank you very much, Serge. And yes, it is a kind of momentum we have to take advantage of right now. The others are unfortunately empty there is no so let's take this time to make a good reflection about the next decade and how we can design the future. And as you all know, the ETC International Theater Conference should have take place in Hungary, hosted by the theater in Sombatay, one of the eldest Hungarian cities, situated near to the Austrian border. What really is as we all know a country where free expression and artistic expression specifically is, I would say, under attack right now in the present time and with the politics of Viktor Orban so we regret even more that we could not come and support with in person the political scene. And it is really it's a it's an unfortunately thing due of course to the pandemic, but instead of being with them in their countries, they have prepared something to send greetings to us. And now comes the big challenge for me today I have to pronounce the name of the Hungarian theater I tried so it is, please welcome the contribution of Veresh Shandor Sinhal. In the pandemic situation, a very strange situation has occurred in our country. We could not hold a conference around this, as there is no travel, we did not spend much time, because we could not play at the front lines in the theater. So we had to try to do it. So in the present time, the theater is only available on the basis of the market. We arrived at the place where we were waiting for the reception of the numbers we were waiting for. Unfortunately, now it has also disappeared, but a little bit of panic now, since there is no good time for it in the theater. And it seems that it remains until the end of December, because we are afraid that the situation may even happen in February. Thank you for your love and support. Thank you very much to Serge Ranjoni, the editor-in-chief of EDC. There are all kinds of colleagues, friends, acquaintances, so basically everyone here who is now dead. I am Jordan Tamás, the singer of Veresh Shandor Sinhal. It is true that it is still a few months. We are sorry that this conference remains because of the Covid-19. Because the theater has just started to be built in the Hungarian theater. This conference is certainly a very prestigious event for us. And I hope that this conference will also bring you new experiences, which will help you and help you in the future. The theater cannot be missed, because the theater does not exist anymore. The idea is that it is possible to create musical instruments from certain instruments, but it is my responsibility that the theater can be made out of this. Then there is a theater that can be kept up, or if the operation is very difficult. Of course, there are a lot of actors, but the theater has to think about how many actors can be made, how many actors can be made. And for a traditional theater, you have to think about what kind of work is being done, because the city community is also very much involved in the theater. One important element of sustainability is what the future community will be like. We cannot be satisfied with the young actors. It is already in the production phase, but in the future, when they are six years old, we also have to order from China, which is suitable for children to go to the theater. So the name of the theater is one of the basic elements of sustainability. The future community is important, because what the actors feel in the theater is that they are involved in a very important event in society. The future of the theater is entirely based on the whole life and soul of the actors. The future of the theater is based on the basic activities of the theater, the architecture of itself, and the real significance of the activities of the actors. I hope that we will not be too busy with the European whole life. Thank you very much for listening. We have arrived at the big stage, here at Zodna, at the garage of the Farsang Cymru production, which we wanted to show on the 29th of November. Unfortunately, we do not have the opportunity now, as you can see, we do not have a return ticket, unfortunately, it is available, but at the same time, we do not have anyone to work on the stage. Because everyone is in quarantine, there is a unfortunate Covid-19 situation. The stage was called by Emilia Markus, the son of Kamara Termit, the 20th anniversary of the stage, which is a big event, and since February, it has been four times that we had to organize our event. We can say that we are happy that with the help of the modern technique, the colors will be used in the YouTube channel, the events of our events will be used as a reference. As you have done this in the last few days, I will leave it to you as much as possible, which you can do live on YouTube. Thank you very much for the conference, I am not a journalist, I am a citizen of Medjugorje. This is the city where we call the future city. The future is green, sustainable, and the city of communities. So we have to imagine a good city, where the local community can help with their work, where it is a good place, where the communities in the United States know exactly why they have to protect and take care of our city. The theater itself is a community. I think one of the benefits of the theater is that the middle class, the theater artists, the actors here, the actors, understand why it is important that they are connected in the direction of the future, so that they can create a new community, take care of the actors, take care of the parks, take care of the city. We can get a lot of help from the theater and from some cultural institutions. I hope that from the conference, that the majority of them will be able to get more impetus, and when they get these, they will return to their own city. So the next two, three, four, five, or maybe even more, we can use it in some way. The big community, the city, and the biggest community in the country, and even, I can say, the whole Europe, the whole country, the city. This is from the small, or at least from the big and the big ones. I hope that everyone has a good meeting, a good conference, a good health. Dear colleagues, dear friends, I would like to thank the conference for all its participants. I am Sabo Tibor, and I am wearing the red-haired Sandoz theater from February 1, 2021, with the management of the Sandoz theater and the management of the theater. I think that it is difficult to talk about it, because I can only see a camera-like optical lens in front of me, and I can't see the conversation partner, the face, the face of the audience, I can't see it in my eyes. Dear colleagues, who, for example, don't have such a protective mask over these pandemic times, which will definitely survive. And I think that maybe this conference can be a theme or an example of a virus situation, and as a result, or as an example of a virus case, or as a result of a pandemic, or as a result of a pandemic, or as a result of a pandemic, we must maintain ourselves and our families. I hope very much that this virus situation will continue to flourish, that the world will flourish and that we will survive, and I hope for all of them to maintain good health and I would like to express my hope that we can meet personally and I hope for all of them. What a great little film. Thank you so much for the team of the Verre-Shandor-Sinhade Theatre in Sombatai, and especially to the mayor, Andres Nemine and the actual director, Thomas Jordan, and of course the new director. Right now, to get us some perspective and to have a better understanding of the challenges and issues of sustainability and the reality of it, I would like to present to you our keynote speaker. He is the president of NABU. This means Nature and Biodiversity Conservation Union founded in 1899 and so for one of the oldest and largest environment associations in Germany with more than 700,000 members. So our speaker will give us an over well context and a pragmatic realistic outlook on the main topic today. Jörg Andreas Krüger, the floor is yours. So hello again from my side. I had to switch on my microphone. Thank you very much for the kind introduction and let me say that I'm really happy to be here today and to be part of your discussion about more sustainability across Europe and the European Theorists. Let me give some more information about our organization. Annette Gallach just mentioned that we are very old organization that we have a lot of members, but what we are really proud about is that we have more than 70,000 volunteers working in our German local groups, working for the preservation of habitats and ecosystems for protected areas for more sustainable production and consumption schemes and trying to be a change agent so that we can come forward when our society discussions with regard to climate change and biodiversity loss. In the last minutes of the film from the Hungarian colleagues, we heard a lot about social responsibility. And I mean, for sure I will focus now in the upcoming minutes a little bit more on the topic of ecological sustainability, but we are completely aware and I just want to underline that at the very beginning of my keynote that there is no way to ecological sustainability and ecological sustainable society without social sustainability in the society as well. So we always have to bring that together and we can't say, okay, at the moment one thing is more prior than the other, we always have to bring it together. And then with that, I just want to start with a few thoughts and impressions about the global ecological crisis of climate change and biodiversity loss. I think I don't have to go too much into detail with regard to climate change. We all have heard that very often in the news, we know and discuss that in our society sometimes for more than 20 years and we all have heard about the two degrees which we want to have as a maximum temperature rise in this century that is agreed by all heads of state in 2015 in Paris in the so-called Paris Agreement. But the truth is at the moment that we are on the way to 2.9, 3.0 degrees temperature rise and that will harm our ecosystems, our economy, our social systems in a really deep way. We all have used, have become used to the pictures of forest fires around the globe. In Australia and Siberia, in the Congo basin, in the Amazon we have the same in parts of Europe. We have seen the floods, we have seen the droughts and we have seen the first ecosystem starting dying. In Germany we have, at the moment we have around 300,000 hectares of forests which collapsed under the drought and under the heat in the summers of the last two and three years. And that's what we have to expect for the future as well. And that is the link to the a little bit more invisible ecological crisis, the loss of biodiversity. And at the beginning I want to clarify one very common misunderstanding. Many, in many discussions people come to me and say, okay, biodiversity, ah, you mean this, but that's not the case. Biodiversity is meant as the variety of life on earth. These are genes, these are species and that's the variety of ecosystems and these ecosystems provide us with ecosystem services like fresh air, like drinking water in good quality, like fertile soil and so on and so on and so on. And so if we speak about the loss of biodiversity, it's not just the tiger, it's not just the white star or the gorilla. It is the fundament of our economies and the fundament of our societies, which we are talking about. And how big the problem is, especially here in Germany, I can give you this one example. We lost over the last 25 to 30 years almost 75 to 80% of the biomass of flying insects. So not the white star not the tiger again, but you can imagine that these insects, which we need for pollination, which we need for a lot of other ecosystem connections that we are missing these insects and we have now to live in these limited ecosystems with limited capacity for ecosystem services and that's where we have to work on. The International Biodiversity Council came up last year with a large report and they said, okay, we have two or three different but major causes for these biodiversity loss. First is land use change and these land use changes very often coming up from things like palm oil or soil production, so in Indonesia or in South America. And that is the direct link to our lifestyle, to our meat consumption, to our energy system and all the systems and products where we use palm oil. The second thing for biodiversity is climate change. There is an interlink between the two crises for sure. I mean, when there is no rain anymore, then a wet land becomes dry and there is no wet land ecosystem services anymore. That's very obvious, I guess. And the third thing is the direct over exploitation of fish in the marine of timber in the forests and other things. And then there are a few minor causes as well, but these three are the main things where we have to work on. And when we compare, or if we compare the results which we have to expect from these crises, when we compare that to the COVID-19 situation which we have at the moment, then we have seen this year that the crisis, the COVID-19 crisis affected our economies, our parliaments, our public budgets, our private lives and changed everything fundamentally. And that is what we will see when we don't act against climate change when we are not able to reduce and limit climate change below two degrees since then we will see some tipping points in the ecosystems and complete new ecosystem landscape will come up with a lot of other services maybe, but with many, many services are missing for our future which we have used for the last centuries. The COVID-19 crisis for me is as well an example and that's linked to the social sustainability as well that the pandemic is hitting the weakest members of our societies and the poorest countries around the globe very hard harder than others and that's the same what we will see with climate change and biodiversity loss since most of us in Europe we are not really depending directly on fresh water supply from a river or from a firewood supply from a forest, but many, many people around the globe there are in this situation that they have to use these direct ecosystem services and we should be aware that if we are talking about ecological sustainability and combating and fighting against these two crises we help these 800 to 900 million people who live from the services directly. So it's time to act I guess there is no doubt about that and I have two good news first thing is we pretty good know what we have to do and what we have what we should do and we know since the beginning of the 90s and there are tons of papers, scientific expertise and some best practices and so on and so on and so on and the heads of states came together in 2015 and they brought most of the things together in the Sustainable Development Goals you all know there are these 17 goals which describe how we can create a good future for all of us and the mission statement is leaving no one behind not in our societies and not in the other societies of the global south as well. The 2015 Sustainable Development Goals are a kind of pathway for the transformation of our way to act to produce, to consume and to live and my second good point is that transformation is just a big very very big work and you really feel the pressure on the shoulders then but transformation starts with small steps as well so we always and everybody has in the private life and if each theater will have an entry point into the sustainability discussion and can start with smaller steps, can be more familiar with the topics and can then go deeper into the details the roads towards sustainability of a theater they are so different as the situations and the theaters are in the real life situation so what can you do as the theaters in Europe I think the first point is to check your house for some resource saving measures I mean that's something what you mostly have already done for efficiency reasons and to save some money so we are talking about energy saving lamps we are talking about the flushing of the toilets but we are talking as well about the temperature of the warm water in the house and for sure we are talking about the insulation of the building and about new heating systems the last two are the really transformational big things but we are completely aware that you and we all need a lot of money for that but the good news is that with the European Green Deal there is a lot of money for investment and climate change mitigation measures from the European Union and many many of the national recovery plans as well and I think it's something where we can go together as theorists and NGOs and lobby for direct money for direct support of the theorists the second thing and that is a little bit more complex is check your procurement policies so source renewable energy so get your electricity from wind farms and from photovoltaic farms so that you step out of the fossil energies and the CO2 driven energy supply and next points are print your programs on recycling materials recycling paper use local products in the canteen and please don't sell water which you can sometimes see in theaters and in other places water from some glacier or some remote islands since it's posh no just sell the water from the local water provider maybe directly from the tap or bottled with a little bit of gas then for the comfort third thing is something what I guess you have sometimes done already in your core business and that is design costumes and stage props for reuse and recycling we at the moment we are using the resources of almost two planets per year that means we use so much timber so much fish so much metals and so on and so on and we use the doubled amount of the renewable capacity of the planet at the moment and that is like with a private bank account if you always go and spend more than you have then you are sometimes someday you will have a big big problem and so let's get rid of this and start thinking about reusing things and recycling things don't combine materials together which you can't separate anymore make them easy to repair the things and so on and so on so coming from these things which are very close to your core business we can discuss as well about have you thought about giving biodiversity a space around your house I mean some of the theaters have small gardens, small parks others will have some space on the roof or something else we have a wonderful example here in Berlin the Deutsche Theater in front of the German theater the Deutsche Theater we have some areas with wild flowers and it's really like a paradise you can see people come there and they enjoy that biodiversity that there is life in the city center of Berlin what is good for communication of sustainability aspects as well and then think about developing your own sustainability strategy and involve your staff and maybe cooperate with a local environmental group these local environmentalists they can give expertise they can help you they can act together with your staff so make it a thing which is not just the management approach of the theater make it a thing for everybody to be working in the theater and the third thing that's something what I mentioned before is let us lobby together for a good legal frame and for a good funding frame so that the theaters can become a sustainable place you all know better than I do how big is the role of theaters as a change agent and as a facilitator of society discussions and I've seen that so often in European history and my hope is that we can find a way that European theaters become a change agent and facilitator for these sustainability discussions as well so please give this sustainable future a place in your houses on stage involve the community of your guests of your staff reach out into the society and at the end walk the talk so make your houses as sustainable as it's possible and I hope that this day today is just the start of a discussion and we from NABU we are really looking forward to co-operate with you and with many others with our European network partners in other European countries so thank you very much and I hope we will now have a very good discussion thank you so much Jörg Andreas I love your terms change and I think immediately about the green 007 for theaters just let me ask you one more you already gave us a lot of very concrete recommendations and we will talk about this especially we have some examples so go directly in your idea before we meet the other panelists I would like that you go a little bit further on this role theater has in society because theater has this incredible strings of impacting things now I'm not talking about the transformation of the building but more what's going on on scene the pieces are chosen etc would you have an advice or an idea what could be on scene more sustainable as an impact for theaters which kind of themes they should treat I don't know any BP so something like this so what could be your idea for giving this lighthouse character for theaters even more I personally think that every theater will have it's own way there I guess there are theaters which are which are good for a piece about insects and something like that but I mean we have so many others where we can say okay let's adapt old and traditional pieces classic pieces and bring them into the new topics and let them mirror I mean in the times when these pieces has been developed or written they had social questions for example but today these social questions are linked to the ecological questions and so I guess you can bring these ecological sustainability aspects in the classical topics as well and it would be good to see the creativity of the theaters to make that visible then you can do that with some things in the costumes on stage you can do that with slightly changes of the text and so on and so on and I'm not the expert I'm here to learn from the theater makers what's possible and what not but what we can do is really that we as NARU I mean we have almost 800,000 people who are following and supporting us as members and supporters so we have a peer group in society which we can bring together with your peer groups then and that can be something pretty nice for sure it can and by the way bringing together is exactly what we will do now by the way I think this is a supplementary very important aspect visibility and communication printing in the program how much less carbon you use for this because it starts with small things like I don't know glass, straws until big isolations or topics on scene absolutely there is no limit for the way sustainability can enter the theater world so to enter our discussion right now I'm delighted to meet to introduce to you the other four panelists, Jörg Andreas you stay with us of course we have speakers from Scotland, Estonia and Switzerland I'm absolutely delighted about this and before I'm really presenting them and before we're going deeper into this I just want to ask the same short question to all five of you with Jörg Andreas if you were the minister of environment in your country I'm named and tomorrow you have to make your first big announcement what would be the first measure you would like to implement let's start with Katrina Patterson from Scotland for a little answer Thank you very much for having me today I think it's a very difficult question to answer I guess I'm lucky in terms of going first so one thing that I would do would be to introduce the individual carbon budget for every person in the country where you have a certain amount of carbon emissions that you are kind of permitted to to use in a given year but you can't go over that it's a really boring policy measure I know it's not necessarily the most exciting thing No, not boring the reason I suggest it is because I think it would have systemic changes across lots of different ways in which we live and work and it would affect both our public institutions but also the private companies which interact with us on a daily basis and importantly I think it would also become a bit of a social justice leveler because at the moment we live in a society where people who are able people who pollute to the environment and cause the most carbon emissions are the ones who are normally the most affluent in our society and we risk otherwise penalizing people who don't emit as much because they can't afford to Very pragmatic and interesting proposition thank you Katarina let's turn to our Swiss friends Vincent Boudrier and Caroline Barnault what would be your first measure if you would be named environmental minister of Switzerland So I let my minister of So I will propose the implementation of ecological transition income as conceptualized by Sophie Swaton it's a way to link social economy and ecology it's an income that is not unconditional like the universal basic income but based on environmental and social activity compatible with the limits of biosphere the idea is to accompany a citizen to develop projects in collaboration with a local institution association cooperatives Wonderful a very large measure who will englobe everything I would vote for you this is for sure let's see what is the idea of Rez Aus our guest from Estonia Rez what is your idea please share with us yeah hello nice to meet you all I think I would go for radical transparency just really to understand how everything works because of course the change is coming and we have in Europe quite strict criteria already in place but we can't implement it without knowing how the life is so without transparency there will be no change so I know it's complicated especially for the businesses but I think this is something what we really need Your mute Thank you so much, thank you for this idea you're totally right general transparency would be great especially I think about something like lobbying in the bad way there's also good lobbying but this would be certainly helpful, Jörg Andreas what's your idea from the naval perspective what would you do as an environmental minister I want to go for a carbon price for example so the thing is that we have to implement the external costs of our way of living and producing and at the moment we have you see that in forestry and agriculture a lot of invisible costs so farming practices, rain, the rainforest with the soil production and we ruin our soils with the intensive livestock production and so on and so on and we have to bring that all together and we just published a study a year ago where we said okay 40% of these environmental costs of German agriculture is just coming from livestock for example so that is the transparency thing and there's the thing where we say we have to send price signals so bring all the costs for the regeneration of the soils and for all the things into the price of meat that meat will become much more expensive that it is like today in Germany I know there are different levels of pricing among the European countries but that is for me part of honesty and transparency as well so that we really make things comparable with one currency which we all know and it's money Thank you so much Jakandias yes a carbon price very good idea of course meat is crucial meat prices are crucial in Germany for this big meat eaters but also on t-shirts for example we have no idea, we know the price of the t-shirt but we don't know the impact on the environment we will talk about this a little bit later as Reis also has a lot of things to say about this yes put on a carbon price very good supplementary suggestion thank you very much for this little introduction around now I will first turn to Katharina Patterson to present her a little bit better she's working, she's a program manager transformation of culture at the Creative Carbon Scotland this is an organization who supports the reducing of carbon footprints and then act their environmental sustainable strategy this initiative provides for example for Scottish art organizations training in carbon measures reporting and reducing exactly what we talked already about this is one of the first step understand what's going wrong and then take some measures Katharina manages also the cultural adaptation program and this programs across Europe not only for Scotland, you're also working for projects in Ireland, Belgium and Sweden and so let's give us a little better idea about what you're doing and how you are talking and helping in art institution and especially theaters to have a better overview of their carbon footprint thank you yes so Creative Carbon Scotland has been working in Scotland since 2011 and when we first started it was very much an education program really I think it's hard to remember what the world was like in 2011 and also where we were when it came to talking about climate change and environmental sustainability and I think that now almost 10 years has led to a massive awakening of people thinking about the impact that they are having on our planet and so we have helped to come take the arts and cultural sector in Scotland through that change and move really people from conversations from what is climate change to what can I do about climate change to now how can I lead society in addressing climate change and there are three kind of aims that we work for is to lead the Scottish cultural sector and theatre is a huge part of that but for us it also includes the visual arts music, literature, film and television, storytelling kind of anything that comes under the arts centre so to lead the arts and cultural sector to net zero emissions by the year 2045 which is the Scottish Government target the second is to make sure that the wider society recognises the role of arts and culture in addressing climate change so often when you hear climate policy it is talking about transporter, agriculture or manufacturing and obviously these things are critical and so important to think about but we know and I am sure we all here know today the huge power of arts and culture and the potential that we have to contribute so we want to make sure that policy makers, that businesses that individuals, organisations recognise the value of arts and culture in this transformation and lastly we think that the arts and culture have more to give in terms of our creativity and the way in which we work and the way in which we do things so we want to prompt more collaboration between non-cultural organisations and by that we mean kind of anyone but particularly those working on environmental sustainability and climate change to work together and find new ways of doing things so a couple of very short examples from our projects and we say that we work on four different ways to address the practical emissions of climate change in the sector to prompt artistic thinking about climate change, to engage others to their audiences, our staff, suppliers and also to advocate for change at a policy level and you already mentioned our carbon management programme which encourages organisations to understand the emissions that they're causing create interventions to reduce those and also cultural adaptations which moves us from just thinking about how to reduce the impact of our work but also how are we going to live in a future which is now definitely going to be changed by climate change in some way so within that I'm looking at how four different city regions in northwest Europe will have to adapt so I think maybe enough from me just now oh it is just enough for the beginning Katrina not enough at all thank you very much for sharing all these details what I think when I listen to you is also this lighthouse function the cultural scene and the theatres in this especially can have to make this awakeness of the society even if we are a little bit further than right now awakening do you have a concrete example what a Scottish theatre for example did to take all his place in the society not only you know is concentrated on the own theatre world but to make it more collaborative with the society around with the city with the land so I think one example with that would be the Edinburgh Science Festival which has now dedicated a huge part of its program explicitly to talking about climate change and bringing in loads of partners not just saying you know we are a festival so we have this very small they are thinking internationally they are thinking from the community level to the international level and bringing in the lots of unusual partners as well not just the kind of the usual aspect when it comes to climate change the people you all would see talking about these things but completely new areas so I think that's one particularly good example thank you very much this is the kind of example we are looking for and this is a wonderful transition to present you a little bit better Vincent Boudrier and Caroline Bernaud they are so the artistic director and the director of artistic and international projects of the theatre de Vidi in Lausanne in Switzerland beautiful pure air country of course and you also did exactly this you tried to find roots in the society by organizing a conference cycle with not only artists but also researchers and philosophers I saw wonderful YouTube with a very very very very sympathetic and you wanted to gather make imaginary new futures possible please tell us a little bit about this experience Vincent and Caroline yeah now first thank you it is here for the invitation and I think it's a quite important matter the climate change and for me theatre is an important role in this ecological and sustainable revolution of society because theatre I think first the collective place is the art of our society and our city because the artwork is an opportunity to reformulate personal and collective concern without distinguishing between pleasures emotion memories and reflection and theatre for me is a place for meeting and sharing on the edge between political issues knowledge and emotions the theatre de Vidi is a creation theatre with an international program and we present our own production abroad so the challenge of having a sustainable activity is not easy and we are working on it step by step we are working with on different level first ecology and sustainability are important themes of artistic creation and we use the symbolic power of theatrical art in the society to talk about it for instance we just commissioned an ecological show to present in the class of the college and high school of the region second point we create a dialogue between artist, researcher, scientist, philosopher and university to produce new narrative for instance as you say we initiate last year a seminar entitled imagining possible futures with philosopher last year it was the ecological philosopher Dominique this year is a science philosopher Vinciane Desprès and with the university of Lausanne and the goal is to make work together artists and scientists to invent new narrative and new formats then obviously as Dr. Andrea say we work to improve step by step and with humility or carbon footprint and our sustainability and the professional and public aspect of our project we organize a green team inside the team of VD with a representative of each department to analyze the situation and propose improvement for the technique with less energy for less energy consumption with the light, with the sun, with the video for the set construction with better material and recycling with the tool for the transportation for the travel for the restaurant with local product and vegetarian menu for the communication with less print document, better ink and better digital communication we invite be hives on the roof so we have bees around the theater and we also study to improve the carbon footprint of the audience which is one of the key questions also for theater so we work on the renovation of the building so we initiate a big plan of renovation and we have been working on this for 15 years ago first we changed a circus big top in a theater with innovative and ecological architecture was the laboratory of research of the University of Lausanne and then now we are renovated the max bill theater built in 64 with thermal insulation wind roof, solar panel on the roof and because it's a renovation of the old building and because the budget is limited by the project owner which is the city of Lausanne for me all this work we are doing it's important to link this dimension with an important complex issue how to reduce the carbon footprint of our activity while allowing the circulation of artists and artworks between cultures and continents so for us sustainability must integrate social and cultural issues in addition to ecological issues including both colonial and diversity issues and maybe to make the major project we are developing is led by Caroline and the provisional title is No Trouble and she will present it okay thank you so together with Kathy Mitchell and Jerome Bell we decide Jerome Bell and Kathy Mitchell are two international artists who decided to stop flying years ago they both took this decision for ecological reasons together with them we're trying to design a new project the provisional title is No Trouble because the first rule of the project was nobody will travel and the second rule was it will be an international project so there is a contradiction at the beginning we will try to solve with this project it's very important for us that this project is not a model of production it's just a full scale exercise so the idea is to question the whole process of production and touring from the perspective of sustainability so we we decided to analyze with the partners with the artists all the steps of producing and presenting and touring theater we will create the show remotely Kathy Mitchell in London, Jerome Bell in Paris and Père Trudevidi in Lausanne the sorry the project will be a re-stage in each country by a local team including a local director so Kathy Mitchell and Jerome Bell and Père Trudevidi will write all together a script and this script will be the base of a new production in each country that means that there will be no cash flow no money no exchange of money but only exchange of ideas and we will work in parallel in many different countries there will be co-production budgets shared between the partners but this you are freezed oh we have a little technical problem please go on Caroline you're not freezed anymore okay so the co-production fee will be calculated on the carbon footprint of each country and so according to the national carbon footprint of the country we will decide the proportion to be paid by each partner the first step of the collaboration with the partners coming from all over the world will be to fill all together a questionnaire we are developing with the University of Lausanne it's a questionnaire on sustainability with a lot of questions on all the practices of a theater but also a lot of questions on feelings and how to deal with sustainability and we are working for this project with the scientific committee composed of researchers of Lausanne University so we are now in the process it's super complicated and super interesting it's a lot of production challenges and a lot of interesting discussion about theater as well because when we have to make it with the lowest amount of carbon possible we have to decide what it is important and what it is not we've already decided that we will keep audience live audience and live performer also this is this is already a big amount of carbon so we will have to do the best show possible and the most active show possible because we will spend a lot of carbon with this first decision regarding the content they are discussing a lot and we will find what to talk about and at this moment we are all overwhelmed with all the information but also with all the feelings and one of the topics of the show could be how to process all the information and how to transform feelings into action wonderful and very ambitious program Caroline I mean by listening to both of you you're looking like a laboratory where you try everything you can do by the way by listening to you also I thought about the Festival of Exemples who also has a quite elaborated cream program step by step they're working since year on it and they're going on and going on this is of course this is exemplary we can't say differently and when I listened to you Vincent I thought about what was touring and then came all your part and you explained all of this I have one subversive question about this of course it is better the ensemble is not touring and everybody stays and no travel but what's about the excitement for the actors for the director to go to another city discover the direction of another audience working together create new links because you sleep in hotels or in use hostels together I don't know what we do with this part I know it's a subversive question given our topic but how do you deal with this deception by not touring and not traveling no no I think it's a quick question I think this no travel project is an experiment to see what's happened if we are not traveling but I think we also keep this idea of sharing experience between cultures and between cities important so how to travel in a better way how to save in the transportation so to fight with a set designer that the set is not four tracks but only a small track to fight when we organize a tour to try to make more career on the touring and having more city in the same space especially if you go to another continent maybe to invent also step by step new from a project that maybe the set is not traveling and we can rebuild the set somewhere with recycling projects so integrate this question from the beginning of the consciousness of the project and for me it's also very important to keep the contact with artists from other continents so to keep the link with the team from Africa from South America so how to bring them not only maybe for a few days and then going back home but maybe to have more time in the city maybe to experiment more local project with them so to keep this idea of confrontation of cultures and to be open to the world I think which is very dangerous that for culture local answer is the only answer maybe it's good for food maybe it's good for some goods but not for culture this is a key contradiction of the subject and we have to that's why I say we work with humility and step by step because the answer is not easy but how to solve this question but getting the door open to the world it's very good to make a relativization of I would say what Caroline proposes approach but it's very good to try this and to test it out but there's also for example a middle way like I would call the slow theater people coming longer travel is longer and not so high carbon print maybe there's a way in between and as you say the answer will be multiple in every way because there's not only one let's join thank you very much for this very interesting insight of what we're doing in Lausanne and let me introduce you our last panelist Ret Aus we hello Ret in Estonia Joachim Andreas already mentioned one of the very practical recommendations is the reuse the recycling of things so you also talked about smaller or reusable set things and this is exactly your topic if I can say so you are in PhD, qualified fashion and costume designer and an environmental activist in your biography is written born to be a rebel I love this so please tell us how in which way you make your tissue costume and design revolution thank you yes that's true I have been working with existing materials since I started my career probably after my studies 2002 so it's quite long time let's say 18 years already I haven't put any new material for my designs or for my theater costumes and for me the theater of course has been such interesting and very practical lab where I can test all my ideas what I have had but I'm graduated as fashion designer and my background is design but yeah the main reason why I became especially earlier days focusing only to the theater costume and not the only costume also I used to the set quite a lot was exactly environmental issues I studied fashion design and I figured out that the industry I have chosen is one of the ironical like really one of the the most evil ones so I didn't want to become part of that industry and that's how I found theater and I was really lucky to start working here in Estonia with new wave very alternative new wave theaters who are very open testing different ideas going already sustainable like 15 20 years ago like project like going to the island putting up the theater house with no electricity electricity etc it has been really lot of testing and very interesting journey and that's how actually I became back to the fashion some years ago I understood that if I actually can implement upcycling idea to the theater costume I would probably be able to implement that to the fashion industry as well and that was the moment when I started my doctoral studies and then I focused really how we could make the fashion industry more sustainable and the area where I've been focusing many many years is actually waste, textile waste mostly and my experience is that we really especially in the theater where the creativity is a big part of it you really don't have to go and buy new materials or of course sometimes you have to do it sometimes it's required because the pieces like this but I very systematically worked with our recycling center testing how to make costumes from home textiles from old just post consumer waste really the post consumer waste what people really don't want anymore how to use it as a raw material to put together the new pieces and also one of the first first works I did together with Talens City Theater where I used to work as a head designer many years I was really focusing only on the existing materials in the house and that's what I have found in the theater is actually extremely interesting and very very inspiring that you go and you dig into the stores and you find such interesting pieces what you redesign later on so we have redesigned reused upcycling they have been my methods for a long time and I have understood slowly that actually there are many benefits doing things of course one is financial benefit I think I have been doing the pieces with the lowest budget and it was a little joke meanwhile here as well that theaters are bringing me in because I'm not spending money but this is also very convenient for the theater I think but of course the other hand I understood that even actors actually like this kind of method because when you use already existing materials or if you put clothes on the stage with history already they have lived their life already they actually give some extra level or like extra value and for the actors it's actually something they could relate really easily that they don't have ready-made piece they have to start live into it but they already have the question with the history with the background and if you put it together in the right way it actually also can help actor quite a bit and then I'm a party academic as well I'm a senior researcher in the Stone and Academy of Arts we have a sustainable design lab and we have done quite many nice projects one of the projects was also together with the Stone and with the Tallinn City Theater we went through one year making the environmental calculations and the analysis for the theater and applied for the green certificate for the theater it was a long process the building or buildings let's say that way are extremely old Tallinn City Theater is located in the old town so the buildings are 600, 500 years old so not let's say heating was one of the biggest problems there but a lot of small things you probably all know how to do it how to go through of it but it was it was really interesting also I think for the theater itself really to open all the bookkeeping in the way how much we spend how our waste management is organized how actually how much we can, how we work with the city how actually we can recycle and also to put some ground rules in the theater as well like earlier was mentioned water one of the trickiest thing was to get through with the messages actually the tap water in Tallinn is very good quality that we don't have to consume the bottled water just the theater gave to every every person the reusable bottle etc. a lot of very small details, small things and it was not very easy very easy to go through of it to get everybody on board and to understand why are we doing it but finally when we got quite nice numbers to convince why we should change for example the lightning is the biggest biggest part of the consumption of course I think in the every theater and the city theater is quite specific because we have like five stages it means that the light park is five times which is basically heats up one room one evening for only like 100 people sometimes even less. So it was extremely interesting journey and we learned a lot but I think the idea of upcycling and redesigning in the theater is we should see it more as the artistic challenge as well not only from the environmental point of view which is there is no definitely needed but sometimes it's just the matter of the artist it's much easier to go to the shop and buy the materials much easier just to draw the sketch and then go and find the right material or if you have the idea that you need exactly that kind of goods then you go to the shop and buy them but I would say it's actually very very interesting and challenging to first of all to see what you have and then through that transform that's what you have to something what actually you would like to present on the stage and I really have found in these almost 20 years there is nothing you can't do without these without upcycling or recycling or reuse basically it's all of your own ideas and your own creativity how you put things together wonderful risk thank you very much to give it this huge insight I have two one question and then a remark just please tell us a little bit more what you mean by upcycling and opposite to recycling and then listen to you I mean this fits perfectly the plans and the ideas of the other panelists but wouldn't it be a nice idea to create a label for theaters who do what you propose not buying but recycling recycling and upcycling it will just explain us a little bit better so I would advocate for a label a green theater label maybe not for everything but in this case for example for the use of costumes not by buying new things yes upcycling is the method if you take the material as it is and through design bring it back to the cycle recycling is when you take for example when you make from the plastic puddles fabric or there is process between what takes some resources and we see the hierarchy then always goes reuse then comes upcycling and then comes recycling of course reuse is the best and in the theater the redesign is also very important method you just take old costume you change it a little bit you just but when we are talking about upcycling then you really you take it apart and you put together the new piece of it and when we are talking about labels then when we go back to the fashion industry then years ago we developed together with Stockholm environmental institute a certification up made which is exactly the method for the factories and I have been thinking many times that this is actually something you could implement to the theaters as well because it really you have to see the production and every theater has the small production as well and it's done like this and the second thing what we have been brainstorming with Stockholm environmental institute for example that there is the green office and they are planning to develop green university certificate it would be very easy actually to add up little bit and to create the green theater certificate which I think is a brilliant idea because in very not very big but quite simple toolbox you could make the organization so much more sustainable some it's little bit this kind of toolbox it would be just really not smart if every theater does it by itself if it's done one time you can really play it like put it from one to another etc it's very easily because theater basically 90% of the theater the system is the same the production is the same they work in the same day same system they use the same materials etc etc I think it's very good idea from you Thank you very much Red to share all this experience I love the sustainable way I would like to ask to Katrina Paterson in Scotland these idea of reuse and recycle is this also something or is a part of your advising to the Scottish theater world if I can say so in the frame of your work Yes very much so and it was really exciting to hear about work because yes we would follow the same kind of waste hierarchy we call it where you would have reuses the kind of primary and then upcycling recycling and then eventually even kind of biodegradable elements as well so you know we have a few initiatives that are running in Scotland one called resets scenery which actually works out of one of the big kind of art schools in Glasgow where kind of stage sets that are not being used can be kind of remade into other materials or stored for a period of time because as we have found there's lots of Christmas productions come around every year and it's only like one year and then two years later the snow queen set needs to be used again so actually having somewhere to store materials is a big thing we've also recently been working with an organization called the circular arts network which kind of combines the more the raw materials that you might have so kind of particular pieces of visual arts exhibition that might be relevant for a theater production as well so trying to get that communication and circularity happening and then finally maybe we'll mention another company called Equal Drama which is based in Glasgow in Scotland and they have also they work mainly with them schools productions and they have begun designing edible compostable and biodegradable set so they work with the children to grow the set and then use the set in productions and then afterwards it becomes kind of food for the school and for the individuals participating lots of different options. I love the idea of eating the set after the piece this is of course this is perfect for me as a gourmand I would also like to have a little echo from Jacques-Andréas Kruger about all of this because so the label idea maybe we can pursue a little bit also but what I would also like because the label goes in this direction it's fantastic if theaters start to go green and do all the things we have so many inspirational ideas already but in the next part and I think maybe you can help us here a little bit out Jacques-Andréas is how to communicate this because if the theta is changing into green this is great and reducing the carbon print and the data footprint but now we have also to make a kind of transmission to the public to let them know maybe you have some inspiring ideas for us Jacques-Andréas because this is what Nabu is also doing communicating about the actions. Yeah thank you very much I mean I'm very impressed with the the activities which are already under process in different regions of Europe so wow it's really impressive we have heard a lot about CO2 emissions about process and production and reuse and upcycling I would give the question back again about the biodiversity part a little bit so have you thought about making biodiversity possible doing something for biodiversity around the theorists whenever it's possible I know there are some theorists maybe in the city centre Jacques-Andréas in the VD there is already bees on the roof we heard about this right you and there is already some biodiversity just to mention that and that's good and I mean if we are talking about the kind of label or something I see these three step stones which should be part of one is CO2 emissions I mean we can't do a lot of things without having a focus on CO2 emissions we have heard about the heating and the lightning and the transport question so that is a little bit the white elephant in the room where we have to come down from our emissions and I like the idea of these zero net emissions strategy which you introduced to us that is a good point and then we can always discuss when it's not avoidable how can we maybe offset what do you do with the energy saving, do you invest that in energy saving measurements or transport measurements many technical things then then we have these green office procurement and production things so what do you buy what do you use, how do you reuse how do you recycle it and so on and we have still at the end the biodiversity thing I would put that together and it would be great to have an organisation which okay we are here in the European theatre association or in other associations we are hosting these kind of initiatives so that we have a movement of European theatres and that's then for me the step to more visibility as well I mean becoming more visible has different aspects you can have it on a local level for your city, for your region and for your audience for your audience where you have some activities like I guess many of the theatres have one day in the year where everybody can go to the theatre and look behind the scenes and so on and so on, make that to a topic there, make it to a topic in the programmes combine and co-operate with civil society organisations like from the environmental side or the social side bring that together, use their magazines as well and then the other point is really we have so many creative things with lighthouses use the co-operation with others and make it visible in the media the media are desperately looking for something what is hopeful and what is positive sometimes I can't hear myself speaking anymore since I always say the end is near biodiversity crisis, climate crisis blah blah blah we have the chance and the obligation to do something against it and that's something very proactive, very positive and let's use us together that for communication, make it visible in the TV, make it visible in the news and all the the different streams of media from the yellow press to the scientific papers there are a lot of things and at the end we can have festivals, we can we can have campaigns we are able now for example to have a newsletter with up to 150, 200,000 people signing up for the newsletter within a week sometimes when the topic is really challenging and inspiring wonderful, so you propose that some good initiatives or some calls for implication can go through your newsletter for sure, always we always need positive impactful and meaningful stories otherwise all the discussions about the concerns of the crisis are too depressive just let me add as a news person, as a journalist for us unfortunately bad news are good news so unfortunately when you are open with a catastrophe with a thousand of dead people you are sure you have an audience good news are not so easy to sell I'm sorry to put a big model on what you just said but of course I agree thank you so much, we will open right up I have a lot of questions here in the chat the first question is for Vincent and Caroline, I will just read it to you Vincent and Caroline, it's from Kristi Roma she says I suppose that Kristi is a girl, I'm sorry Kristi maybe Kristi, Kristi Roma I think that the usual theater audiences are also more likely to be interested in sustainability how can theater reach the wider society that maybe less engage and encourage them for wide environmental action this is a question to our Swiss friends can you repeat the question once the idea is just how you can engage parts of the society or maybe not so environmental aware yet into this go green initiative and marathon we are all talking about I think first all the audience of a theater is not so convinced that's it's an imagined question for example just when we change the menu of the restaurant of the theater when we don't have meat for the audience it's a question for some people so it's a small example when we will talk about the transport of the audience it's a question that a lot of people maybe are sensitive but not totally convinced by the way and then I think this is what I say about the symbolic power of theater when we do something in the theater we touch more people than just the audience gathered in the building of the theater before we were working in Avignon festival and it was quite important the symbolic power of each act we are doing and if we make a big project with an important director to talk about it we get a lot of audience so I think this symbolic power the example of culture can influence in a wider way than just the audience of theater so we have to use this power of art there is a supplementary question to this aspect a little provocative the idea is should audience members who come to the theater by personal car pay more for their ticket than those who use public transports or bicycles instead what do you think about this one of the ideas we have we have a little group of discussion with the ticket the ticket selling department and so we we are discussing how to engage the audience in the questioning so we won't do we print the ticket if we print the ticket do we use the ticket as something to communicate with the audience to make a price for the ticket based on the way of transportation they are using so a lot of questioning we have not yet the answer but we have this kind of question and the not travel project as it is an exercise an experiment and it's a good occasion to test a device like this one ticket based on carbon footprint of the transportation or something like that because it won't be for the world theater it will be only for this lab project we are developing yes because it's also a little bit frightened to punish an audience who comes to theater I can say so yes Vincent yeah and maybe I think as I wasn't saying about this question of biodiversity so it's linked to the diversity of the audience of the diversity of the artist and I think we have to fight also to keep this diversity of another biodiversity and this question of how you touch audience with this question also with people of different social class and different economic program and from one side it's easier maybe to make sensitive some rich people but also we have a big huge car and it's a big carbon footprint but also it's a big question for people we don't have the choice of how to move by clothes, cheap clothes but maybe with a bad footprint so it's also a social it's also a social question and in the question of sustainability this economical and social question it's very important to link with this idea of ecological improvement you are muted I'm so sorry I'm so sorry what a beginner's error how could I so thank you very much Vincent and Caroline and I have another question who goes exactly to social direction and it's for you the question is this one you mentioned that ecological solutions must go hand in hand with social solutions how can we bring different sectors like NGOs and art organizations together to fight for this environment I think discussions like we have today are the first step maybe to go into the details and go together then into the media into the political discussions to fight for this combination of social and ecological questions and movements and what I always find important is that and that's maybe a link back to Vincent is that yes we have some sometimes we have the impression that we have the entrance and the link to ecological questions is maybe a little bit more developed in higher class society parts but on the other hand and that's what we experienced since more than 100 years now is in our groups we have many many people which you normally would say they are maybe not that educated not that rich living there in the rural regions and so on and so on and they have their own very specific personal link to nature and the environment completely different things and discussions and that's what I so enjoy in my job so to travel sometimes to the groups and then I'm always impressed and surprised about the thoughts and the thinking and so on and so on so I think sometimes I think it's too easy what we say very often in the the capitals of a country so yes we have these different society levels and the higher income they are easier to convince since they can pay for some preservation of the ecosystem and yet to come back to the original what can we do together just giving example creating solutions or ideas of solutions and then going to the city of Berlin or to higher governmental levels and fighting for it lobbying for it I mean I'm 50% of my job is lobbyism I'm a lobbyist cover the lobbyist just do it I mean we know what we want thank you very much for the answer I would like to take one aspect and take it over to Estonia to Rez you just talked about and this is right this is quite urban talk what we are doing here you know the educated urban people and I think one of the problems in general in the world right now let's not start with Trump, the orange men and the white also something like this that we do not listen enough to the people living far away from the urban centers so I would like to know Estonia experience you also work in talent especially but for example your idea of not buying any more clothes and do this whole process for theater costumes does this also apply to local theaters in Estonia or only to talent national theater difficult to say I mean Estonia is if you think only 1.3 million people living here and from that around 600,000 lives in Estonia which is for Estonia actually very big problem because if you really travel through Estonia it's completely empty and I have been part of building up one eco village in Estonia 16 years just exactly started as the kind of alternative project to understand how that would be to build up independent society in the countryside in Estonia very successful it's independent it works and that was the around 10 years ago we started to implement permaculture into that community and this is my second very big passion I have my own little land also separately where I'm learning actually in really in very very town to earth level how to make the private space independent the way that everything what you as a human produce can stay in the same amount of land like regarding toilets, water, everything everything and just planning to take next weekend chickens as well so like really to have the alternative to understand that as well because I think the idea of circularity at least for me personally it really copying the circularity in the it's the same thing but somehow we have gone so far from that that we think very it's very simple human beings are basically the only ones who are producing waste you can't find waste from the nature and keeping that in mind that has been for me this kind of very big help when I'm designing just always to think this life cycle in the life cycle model like where I take where it goes later on but I think as it is very small and very flexible and still quite young society it's very very simple to adapt different models here and this I see now a lot of activities are popping up where we as a bigger community is trying to transform and from this year we have this green tiger very big movement like the second very big movement started from Estonia is the clean up stay just to to go all together out and pick up waste so it's I can see it's the because Estonians are introvert they are very very nature lovers and this is something very close to their heart but right now my personal feeling is that the city is taking over and I can see there is new way people going back to the countryside starting these experiments like really trying to put more money efforts to keep the village alive but it's actually it's quite sad out there. I understand it's a fertile soil but it needs a lot of soul to make it lively I got this. Thank you very much Reed I have another question for Katrina in the chat what are the most obvious changes in your work in consulting with cultural organizations since the outbreak of the pandemic so it brings us back a little bit into this very special frame year with all the particular problems what were the specific challenges for you Katrina? Yes obviously it's been a very strange year for us all the biggest shift I would say is the move towards digital production of work and obviously there was the first phase where everyone who had some form of digital archive began streaming and then now more and more we're seeing people creating work originally in a digital format so we have heard lots of questions coming up from our cultural community about what is the environmental impact of creating things in a digital way and that's a quite a new research area for us but there's definitely concerns around the materials that you are buying the kind of electronics that you are buying to make this work and particularly the raw materials that go into this production equipment like wear, earth metals and the sustainability of those but also we're facing lots of questions about the increase in energy that comes from that so kind of as you already mentioned earlier like switching to renewable energy suppliers is one of the first things that people who are shifting more towards a digital can do one of the other things that has come up is we go in and out of different stages of lockdown all the time as you can imagine but we have been working with a few cultural organisations and theatre organisations who have started to make work that can be presented outdoors so grid iron theatre company which is originally a site specific theatre company they always use quite unusual spaces wanted to produce their new theatre production in August outdoors with Covid restrictions and they were trying to identify how they could be, how conform to health and safety requirements of masks and gloves and hand sanitisers and all these kind of things whilst also retaining the sustainability kind of policy and priorities that they hold dear so I think it was very easy for people to just go straight back into using single use plastics but actually they were able to think take the time to identify what was the best option for them and what kept people safe but which was also sustainable. Very interesting expert here right, yes plastic glass was for sure not sustainable especially when you use them only one time. By listening to you back to our friends from Hungarian also mentioned in the video to start with the huge social problem the theatre world is right now facing all these jobless people who have to do jobs far away from their field of competence just to sustain your family do we have a chance this is a question for all of you do you think there is a chance that there are new jobs can be created around this idea of going green theatre maybe like I don't know a green coordinator for theatre when I listen to Vincent and Caroline or when I listen to what they are doing in the Exxon Provence Festival there are so many coordinations to do so many knowledge to have are there some new job fields could be created by theatre going green, question for all of you Yeah I can give a comment definitely because I think it's not only about the theatre, for example the student academy of arts hiring the environmental specialist to take care of the building and to put the concept in place I truly think that every theatre because theatre is also so much about the building and it actually requires the different education as well really the environmental specialist is needed somebody who can really measure and put it a little bit into this kind of academic context and do all the calculations it's definitely the field but not only I think the few theatres have shown that they very very easily can go to online and very fast transform and find the different medias how actually to keep going on and share their art and the creation with people it's just the adaptation I think if you are able to adapt with the new situation then there is a very big chance to survive as well Yeah absolutely right I also thinking about something like for example a green community manager I mean somebody who make the bridge between all these different parts of the society we said theatre can do it by itself and it's not the idea theatre is there to spread around this idea so maybe this could be an idea maybe another echo from Vincent and Caroline Yeah I think you are right it can create new competence I think we need people to help the theatre to go further in this direction and faster and on the other hand we also lose some kind of job some profession so in this it's a transformation so if we build less set we need more people in the workshop of that if we have less costume less people in the workshop of costume so it's a transformation with new competence new job from one hand and we lose some other activity and it's also linked to this question of economy and budget because a lot of decisions are more expensive than what we did before when we have new light spot when we have to say ok we don't fly but we take the train it's one day more of travel so about two days more of salaries so a lot of decision are linked to economical question and budget choice so it's quite difficult to manage with that and it's also a huge decision if we are local and organic food for the restaurant it's more expensive so if we want also to open the theatre to a social diversity it's a question so each step is difficult it's a decision it's a choice and that's why we go step by step sometimes we don't know how to do sometimes so it's a long process we we have the feeling that we need to involve the whole team and not to have an expert on board so experts are super important and we need them to make this transition but the ideal would be that this preoccupation will be in the mind of the whole team each person in each department and specialty but instead of having one expert of sustainability each person becoming an expert of sustainability in each team I think this is a very good point you make Karoli because this is one of the basics just above the theatre management of change the key of changing is to take everybody with you to involve everybody so just a green manager or a transformation manager wouldn't do it but I think there are some new jobs and new competency who will come out of this for example I don't know specialist in a psychable set material for example this is a whole new think set we didn't have to before our time is about to being at the end not yet so I have one question I would like to ask to ask also Heidi and Serge to come up and join us here on the panel for the last minutes please so as you know the ETC the European Theatre Convention does this kind of services online and will do more with the aim of the clear and clear aim to establish a kind of list of recommendations this is the whole work to do here together is to figure out all the good ideas coming from Estonia from Scotland, from Switzerland, from Germany and all over the other countries of Europe to get them together so would it not be one of the person here Joachim Clement asked would it not be a good idea for all the ETC stairs to try to explore the issue of sustainability using the example of a production this season very concrete idea and to make your network work in the end we will gather at the experience and try to develop a guide for theatre what ETC will has in every case in mind to give a kind of list of recommendations so in this very special year is this not the moment to do a sustainable exemplary piece of production for all ETC stairs what do you think about this all of you yes certainly but I think that all friends from Vidi they are really a step behind us in this way not behind sorry beyond I'm sorry they are behind they are beyond I'm so sorry absolutely and we will absolutely and we will probably have some of all friends and colleagues that will go on and try also to join them the other thing it's in this moment as Yorke Andreas said we have also this opportunity that European Commission made a focus on the green topic and with a lot of money so the problem is in all different countries that we have to catch something for all fields this is more difficult but probably about the buildings what we can do recycling sets all things that you mentioned now probably we can present some projects to the EU I think it's really important now first to share together the experiences and then to have concrete things and to be able to find the way to support and to have a support of these if I can add this is a very good idea I think so if I can add to this new corona budget Europe can't decide right now because of Poland, Hungary, Hungary but they will at the end I'm sure they will find a way to do this there's a whole envelope about digital transformation of the society and because this year is digital for sure I'm sure this is also one of the possibility to get some help and some interventions from Brussels to make an online digital project but around the theme of going green because people certainly this could be a very nice way to maybe get some money from Brussels to put this issue further I would also like to ask Heidi to join us because we did not you're already here I think you should also remind us of these sustainable development goals of the UNO we did not really mention today and to go totally in the direction of what we're all talking about it would you give us a little topic about this yes absolutely and also add to what Serge was saying because like in the beginning this is the beginning of the process for us also to look for the expertise to find the sources and the knowledge that we all need to transform our work and I want to thank all the speakers first of all because we have spent actually quite some time also in finding you because it is not so obvious to have the expertise around and in digging and going different ways we realize okay there is a little bit of knowledge here a little bit of knowledge there and in working together with different networks the picture slowly starts to fall into a larger piece and the puzzle becomes more complete so therefore we also intend to continue working on specific subjects and offering workshops in December and in January with NABU and also a new partnership and new collaboration with Julie Spicey with another UK based agency bringing change in the environment work with theatres as of next week we are also a partner in the voices of culture dialogue with the European commission to work on cultural organizations and the sustainability development goals what are the challenges and the opportunities also for us organizations to bring this change that we have heard in the morning into societies and I think it is also important in this context to see and to know that communities are part of the sustainable development goals identified areas where action is actually taking place to enhance access to infrastructures to green future based creations and cultural organizations are a very strong part in this whole picture and for us it is also important to see what are the means to be sustained actually to be part of this sustainable community and this would be definitely also a future question in our collaboration but now to learn from the expertise from the lobbying side how can we access those supporting funding schemes not just on European level but also on a more national level in all the different countries because every country has signed up to those sustainable development goals and like you said we are also collecting the information in the UTC network it will be accessible on our website as a sort of resource center to see what is happening on state what can we do but also what is happening backstage what are the methods that we need to adapt to transform our public institutions and to fulfill also our missions towards a sustainable community in a theater looking at the creative components to the administration to the technical implementations to the audience outreach and to formulate within the network also a reflection that can be then applied to our member theaters as a sort of set recommendation like I think you've said it it's not really necessary that each individual theater or venue starts to rethink from zero but that we have a guiding principle that we can apply to our work and this is also something that we will be developing in consultation with our members over the coming months while looking for the expertise around Europe wonderful kind of white book that everybody can use and implement in his own way I think this is a wonderful idea I would also restress the idea of a label to think about a criteria list of how theater can go green and have a green label I think this could also be a role of the ETC to think about this because you have so many public theaters as members also from my side I want to thank you very much all the speakers it was a very inspiring I learned a lot of all where I thought that we just think about what could be done there is already a lot of things done and I like the bees on the theater in Switzerland I have to say this is my personal favorite it's a little thing but I love it also very much again and again to all the colleagues from the here we come again Wörööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööööö we are really so happy that you joined at least in this way but also we are again very unhappy that we could not have been with you also the partners from the whole round for the live stream and for the thank yous for the ETC team I think this is Serge and not me who will do it Yes absolutely we thank the ETC team because it was one week to the other last week it was the Euroband forum and this week it's the GA so it's a lot of things in the same time so Elaine, Teresa, Alice, Junna, Christy, Heidi really a big I thank you very very much and also all our speakers and obviously Annette you are wonderful with so much energy it's amazing really thanks a lot thank you very much oh yes let's give us all yes make our all on and give us all together with the phone a round of applause yeah it's the edge of feeling finally thank you thank you so much to all of you I wish you really go green a fantastic way I think there's so many things already done so many inspirational stuff we heard together I'm sure this is a very good beginning for this marathon we will especially take our lifetime let's be clear we will never stop to think about stuff like this so it's very nice to have started with you I say goodbye and I give the final words to Heidi thank you bye everybody thank you Annette and also another thank you from my side because you've joined us with such an enthusiasm via zoom and guided also our conversations in preparation to this conference through your professional eyes of a TV journalist who's used to work with a non visible audience so that's also something new for us in adapting to the digital change and the impact of the pandemic so thank you very much and I want to say goodbye as well to our audience outside in the live stream we hope to see you again in one of our next conferences in June and I want to invite our zoom audience the ETC members and guests to stay on for a few more minutes with us as we have prepared a little special treat for you throughout the next days and that we would like to introduce you