 Okay, it's the one o'clock block. Welcome to Sustainable Hawaii. We have three people who joined us today for this discussion. One is Gordon Fuller, my old friend who is in the studio. Say hi, Gordon. Aloha, Kakoh. Oh, wow. And two people remote. All right, and this is all about a company about eco-homes. Did I get that right, Gordon? Eco-home. Yeah, can you talk about that? This is a huge, big project, very important to climate change here and elsewhere. I'm going to probably let the founder, Mr. Mike Reynolds, give us a little bit of background on eco-home. But I'll just say what we're doing here today is introducing eco-home to Hawaii. We believe that good housing solutions should be affordable and they should be sustainable. And when we say sustainable, we mean like the people who founded our beloved islands here, who lived in balance with nature. And these two gentlemen are indeed going to help us do even better than we have in the past. As we're driving in today, we saw all the big tall buildings coming up and that's really great. Means we'll have a lot of new people coming to Hawaii. But we have a lot of housing needs for the people who live here already. The Hawaiian community has 2.4 families per home and we think that they should have a better opportunity. And we think we have the answer. We understand that housing is a critical need here and we believe that it could be a good thing. Joining us also is Bob Pearson and Bob is indeed the business development director with eco-home. And the two of them are going to share with us a little bit about what eco-home does. And Mike, why don't we start with you? Could you give us a little background on eco-home? Yeah. Myself, I'm a builder. All of the founders of eco-home were all builders. We effectively started the website because there was a real shortage of information available. And to have sustainable housing. When I was building my own house, I couldn't find the right information. And collectively, we're a group of builders and engineers environmentalists and we wanted to create a place where people could find that important information they needed to build properly, to build more sustainable houses, more environmentally responsible houses that last longer, that are healthier for occupants. And that's eco-home. There you go. We took as far as we could and then now we have Robert. As I understand it, gentlemen, eco-home has over, did I understand 6,000 articles on the web to help people find out how to modify and how to build eco-housing? We've got a French website as well. So while as I live in Quebec, I run the English eco-home. We have a French website as well. And collectively, yes, we have at least that. And Robert, you were sharing with me there are many videos up on YouTube and a lot of articles that have been published by eco-home to help people looking ahead. And as I understand it, what we're doing now is bringing this to Hawaii as a consultancy to help stimulate and to assist people in developing wonderful sustainable housing here. Is that correct? I'm sorry, I didn't actually hear the Robert, we were just talking about the publishing that eco-home has been doing over the years. I understand there are a substantial number of articles advising people on how to modify and build sustainable, ecologically balanced housing and some YouTube videos as well. And now as I understand you're branching out into really providing a global expertise on demand consultancy. If I understand correctly, that's correct. The difference that we've tried to make with other websites that give advice that will promote certain products that are labeled green. The difference is that we actually are builders. We build homes. Eco-home has built, for example, the first LEED Platinum V4 home in Canada was built by eco-home as a test platform, if you like, for certain ideas, certain materials, certain ways of doing things, so that we have real world experience, not only theoretical ideas, because unfortunately, in Canada and in the US, certain parts of the building codes haven't kept up with the technology that's available, or the way that houses need to be built for the future, which is more efficient housing, better insulated housing. And, you know, it still sounds outlandish when you suggest to somebody living in Ottawa, or the northern reaches of Ontario, for example, or Wisconsin, or Montana, it sounds outlandish when you say, well, instead of putting $20,000, $30,000 into your heating system, why not make a passive house? Why not build a passive house with better insulation and better air sealing that doesn't need a heating system? And that still sounds outlandish, which is unfortunate when you consider that the first recognized passive house was built 40-something years ago in Saskatchewan, I believe, Mike. You take over, Mike. Well, Mike, may I ask you, Mike, what are these certifications that Robert's referring to? What do they mean? And I'll just add that we're very interested in alternative types of building and building materials. We import 100% of building materials here in Hawaii. Yeah, so the passive house Robert was mentioning was an experimental house built in Saskatchewan. And it really, it was commissioned by the Canadian government, they handed it to a bunch of engineers, Harold Orr, one of which recently won the Order of Canada. And they, what they've done is they push energy efficiency to a new level. That in itself gave birth to the passive house movement, starting in Germany, which is effectively, you're focusing on the building envelope, you're retaining the heat you have rather than focusing on, as Robert's saying, like dropping 30 grand into a heating system or a cooling system is insulated, make it airtight. And so that this movement has swept the globe. Our contribution to this is like the house that Robert just mentioned is our Adelweiss house that won the LEED V4 Platinum. So LEED is an environmental rating system as well. And what it does is it promotes energy efficient housing, sustainable housing, healthy housing. And so when we decided to build that house, it's a demonstration house, the goal of it was, first of all, to show people that it's not that expensive. And it's worth it. You invest a bit more at the start, you save money over the life of the house. On top of that, it's healthier. It's more comfortably have a quality of life. It lasts longer. And eventually, it saves you money. You invest now, you're not you're you're paying for insulation rather paying for heat or cooling. So that's that's a premise of it. And it's through the building of that house that we did. I think there's some 20 almost 25 videos documenting step by step how to do this. And again, the whole premise was make this information accessible to home builders and homeowners. So this is a new kind of technology or series of technologies over all these thousands of articles that can I can I look at these articles today? Can I go to the web and actually read these articles? Yeah, that if I want to adopt these, these suggestions, articles, new technologies? Can I just build my own house? Or do I are you guys dealing with contractors? Are you assuming that the the homeowner will build his own house? How does that work? It starts with oftentimes homeowners doing the research because they want a better house. So we do have a lot of general contractors will go find the latest materials, latest technologies. But oftentimes, it's homeowners trying to find the best information, and then they can educate their own general contractors, they get to make those decisions. So it's a mix of everyone. And the information is written in a way for what we aim is that yes, you can understand it. It's to take building science and bring it down to the base levels to make you understand it. You don't need to be an engineer or physicist to understand how basic the basic functions of a house of how it's, it's, yeah, it's about removing it's about removing the obstacles and barriers for people to be able to achieve a better standard of home without immediately exploding a budget. You know, I am very careful, shall we say with with finances and it seems much time in Manchester. That's what happens to you. Exactly. And and they the thing is the perception is that as soon as you start talking about sustainable housing, you talk about higher performance housing, the perception is that it's going to cost more. And it needn't necessarily cost more, it can be a different use of technique, a different way of sealing a window in a different choice of material. You know, instead of instead of choosing this kind of dry wall, choose this kind of drywall, where to place the vapor barrier in the structure, for example, within a certain climate. So it's is techniques and it's methods and it's proven building science that enables people to build a better home and have a home that's more comfortable, that keeps a more consistent temperature throughout a wide variety of climatic circumstances. And, and, you know, everybody benefits, where is the downside? And Jane, so that's Well, I'll give you some possible downsides, Gordon, let me suggest. Number one is, you know, we in Hawaii, we have unions. And the unions want to be involved in as much construction as they can possibly be involved in, they may want to get into that dynamic and have some kind of influence on it. The other is, people don't know. They don't know there's global technology that is emerging, that is useful in every state of this union, and in Europe and in Canada, and for everywhere for that matter, they may not know and they have to be aware of the articles and the new technology and they have to be able to get the building materials that would satisfy the new specs and standards in all these articles. So I would see those as potential barriers to, you know, to doing what you're talking about. Anybody want to answer me on that? I'll just jump in to say that's how that's how we hooked up with these gentlemen, actually, with their broad experience in Europe, Canada, the United States, they bring to us a lot of knowledge. And here's the interesting thing, despite the fact that that they are a web based organization of global experts, they are not supported by advertising. That's not how they roll. They're not there to try to push their solutions. They're there to try to help find the best of breed solutions regionally. So here in Hawaii, it's one of the biggest concerns we have 100% of all building materials come from off island from the mainland or from around the world. And we'd really like to see that change because the original inhabitants here had a million people living in balance, and they didn't have any container ships at all. What's the business model? You know, to this approach, you you mentioned a website. Is that a website I have to pay to get on? Do I have to have you guys make any money doing this? The I'll step in and explain here is what God just said about the advertising side of things isn't quite correct. There is advertising on the website. But we don't accept adverts from just anybody. We don't take adverts from companies that don't manufacture to a certain specification and to a certain eco specification for the products that they're offering. Because this is part of what is confusing for the consumer is that trying to establish what is actually a green building product is very difficult because every single company out there has realized that the green building industry is a growth market. It is an interesting market for all mainstream manufacturers to jump on. And so dare one say that they are using their marketing machines to greenwash certain product that should not have the connotation of green associated with them. These products should not be allowed to be promoted in that way. You know, it's almost like having gluten free drywall for the food industry. It's much the same thing. So we're very selective with who we allow to become partners to certain sections and we don't allow them to influence the opinions that we have. We give a balanced opinion. We weigh up different solutions to the same problems. We weigh up different products that solve solutions that solve problems that are, you know, that always happen within a building envelope. There are always conflicting opinions. And so this is why it's so important to put this information out there. So people have real world information so that they can form their own opinion. So you have an ongoing you have an ongoing research project really to find out the latest technologies, best practices. Yeah, if I can if I can give you the example for Hawaii is Hawaii has a particular set of challenges is particularly interesting to us because very much because you are islands because you are a you are a representation, if you like, of the planet itself, which is, if you are producing waste, if you are using energy, you know, without any regard to how it's being produced, then, you know, you are in a net negative situation for the islands themselves. So eco home in looking at Hawaii, one of the first things that we sat down and discussed was, okay, how do we tailor this to the particular requirements for properties on Hawaii? What are the local materials that are available? Of course, with the legislation in connection with hemp production that's been, you know, it's been blocked by legislation up to now, but I believe that those barriers have been removed. Hemp is a very useful material for being used in building materials for insulation purposes, for the fact that it doesn't have a mold for the self regulation for humidity, for temperature control. So hemp products, for example, are something that we're definitely looking to push within the framework of eco home Hawaii, because they are also a local material. So so eco home in Quebec, for example, decided to take things to the next levels. So they have partnered with architects and manufacturers of prefabricated, prefabricated kit homes that do the main structure of the home to a very high standard. So these are, you know, this is a model for what we are now looking to do with Hawaii is to find partners using local resources, using local materials and produce affordable, high efficiency housing for Hawaii. Okay, but my question, my question, Mike is, how do you make money? Well, as we do have partners that come on, we do have sponsors on the website, we select and we people need to buy products. So if they're going to buy something, we partner with the ones that we like. As he's mentioned, it doesn't affect the editorial content. We don't allow certain products on. That's, that's, that's our mission. And through that, however, we we discuss the pros and cons of any particular product. So basically, the information in there is pure, we have engineers, we're builders and engineers, and we do our research, and we make sure that we we try to expose find the better products, expose the greenwashing when we find it, and basically give the people the information to make the right decisions. And yes, if you find an advertiser on our website, it means we fed them, we like them. We're okay with that. And so yes, they're what helped keep us going. So you're actually, you're benefiting from the transaction where I go on your website, I find a supplier I buy what directly from the supplier, but you're you're in a partnership with the supplier, and you get a part of that transaction, is that what works? Oh, it's it's exposure. Like you're reading a magazine and newspaper, you see an article, you see a billboard on the side of the road, they'll pay, they'll pay for it to see. So companies will pay to be seen. So when we we have a readership that are looking for high performance, sustainable products, they end up on our website. So those problems, those manufacturers want to be seen. So we we have our we have our pick of the litter we can we pick and choose we don't which is that we don't let anybody on there. It's well vetted. They were in a we're in a situation in the world now where people's buying choices, the whole model for path to market is changing dramatically for so many products, that, you know, people, people, even if they go to their local builders merchant, people these days, you know, they don't just go to the builders merchant and take what they're being told as necessarily being correct. They have a tendency to go and see what's available and then they will very often go online, seek information to work out, you know, what the choices are they're going to make. So we, as I say, we provide the vehicle for getting the information out there and to give the eco credentials, specific eco credentials of the products so that people can make a choice. What's the name of the website eco home dot com or something like that next. Next. And Gordon, how how why what are you doing in this deal? Well, I was looking for a resource as we looked at some properties we had we wanted to develop one over and Maui on a beautiful beach. We were thinking how how can we make it most efficient? How can we make it so that it's affordable? Because affordable is not six, seven, eight hundred thousand dollars. I'm sorry, I'm not anymore. We need we did housing that fits the lifestyle of today. And a lot of the millennial folks who are very interested, the children of our Hawaii, they are not interested in their parents sprawling 2000 square foot homes. They're kind of interested a little more efficient, a little more minimal, a little more in balance and without the maintenance and so on. So because of those criteria and recognizing that as we get older also we want to downsize perhaps or where we just can't afford the lossy houses we've had with their flat roofs and big air conditioners and housing that would be frankly devastated if we had a serious tropical storm like we've seen in Puerto Rico. So what's the future for Hawaii? How are we going to live in balance? How are we going to make more opportunity for residents? And that's how I found these gentlemen. When I said they don't have advertising, I meant they have product placement for sure. I don't quite think of that as much as advertising. I think of them as a trusted source and that's why we were attracted to them. We were thinking here's a trusted source, essentially expertise on demand that you can tap into from the global community and bring to bear with the expertise and craftsmanship of our local builders and contractors. And we think we can work with our community in a cooperative way so that we have a win-win scenario. Everybody wins. The county wins. The city's win. And the contractors and community. So is this your relationship with eco-homes? That's the standard relationship. That's the way you normally operate. If I went from state to state, I'd find people just like Gordon who are building homes and they are availing themselves of your services and your information. People find us like Gordon, for example, and this is how we, when we have, oftentimes we'll work on people's design teams. Like the website is one thing, but on a step-by-step basis, I often will get on people's design teams. And us as a company, we have on any different level. But more on the grander scale of what Gordon is talking about. We started this with a concept house in northern Quebec. A climate that's a little bit cooler than yours. And as an example of what it's possible is that this is a house in northern Quebec. It actually won an award, a House of the Year award for resiliency and was called the most resilient house in North America by the Resilient Design Institute. And the reason what I want to add to that is that it's been built in a way to withstand climate change, to provide a healthy environment for the occupants but to last. And so what I mean is when you mention like to survive storms is we don't know what's coming with climate change. So to just keep building the same house is the same way. That's foolish. You don't know what's going to happen. You need to anticipate the worst. So I said that one particular house when you talk about the efficiency and how much it's going to cost. A lot of people around here are pumping 2003 or more thousand a year into heating a house. And then they'll do the same thing in the summer sometimes to cool it. So if you take all that money up front and invest in a better building envelope. So for example that one that we built in Northern Quebec called the Canogamy House. At one point the owner had shut off the heating system. He wanted to know if it was going on in February. And I don't know what your Fahrenheit temperatures are like but it was down around minus 20 Celsius. Oh she's working. That's really cold. They help with the heat off. The house is so efficient. It collects passive heat. The house stayed warm. He actually hit, I think it was up into the 80s Fahrenheit. At the point where other people are looking to turn on their air conditioners. And this is in Northern Quebec in the middle of February. So if we can do that there. Why are we heating like in California for example. A house has been down there. It's like okay well the heat comes on at night and then the air conditioner come on in the day. How is that happening? Why are you investing in heating and cooling it on a 12 hour cycle. Build a better house in the first place. And you're looking at various climates. You cross climate belts and so you learn from one climate belt to another climate belt on how to be efficient. But I have one last question I want to pose to all of you and that is this. And what I get is that you have systems, materials, technologies. Expertise. Expertise on demand. You have you know a lot of people participating in great expertise. And so that's one thing. And then you want to save money for the homeowner. So the house isn't so expensive. And then you want to make it efficient to build and operate. I guess that's also saving money. And then you want to you want to make you want to design it right so that it's easy to live in you know and you have a you know an appropriate house for an appropriate use. And then you also want to save energy. And finally you want to you know contribute to dealing with climate change. There's an awful lot of factors in there. And it strikes me that that's pretty ambitious in the sense that some of those factors work against other factors. And sometimes you have to make a kind of Sophie's choice about which factor you're going to you're going to you know. I mean what is the most important factor. Is it climate change Gordon. Is that what we're talking about here. I think it's materials and that's one of the unique opportunities here in Hawaii is to try to identify local resources local construction approaches. How to make homes pass of here. So that we're not running a big air conditioner. As we all know all of the energy here comes from oil tankers or solar power. Which we have plenty of. But solar is only as good as when the sun is shining. Unless of course we invest heavily in energy storage. So at the end of the day it's always a balance of energy versus materials versus cost. And that's the equation that we intend to focus on is how we can use local materials local talents local craftsmanship local sunshine. And the environment to make our housing better more sustainable more durable. Better compliment to our Hawaiian lifestyle. And Bob and Mike what would you add to that. What message would you leave with our viewers. I'll go first there Bob. Just simply to add to your point when you're saying is like we're how you know how do you make those choices. Do I save the plan or save myself. And it's not always that canudge him. You often it comes together as a package. So for example if I build a house that's more efficient. I might invest more in front. I will save money. But if it's more efficient. And if it's more comfortable. I'll be happier and so about quality of life. If I design it properly so it lasts. I won't have to rebuild it in 50 years. And it's going to hopefully weather through storms that we just don't know the severity of yet. And one of the most important things for me that I find that is resiliency. Because we don't know what we're getting especially in Hawaii. You need to build in anticipation of weather events. So if I can build a house. That is going to survive in a power outage stay warm on its own. Well I might not have to go live in gymnasium in the middle of a power outage like many other people I can stay in my house. These are the ideas making a house is it's your own personal fortress. And yes it will say it helps prevent climate change in the process. It's absolutely necessary. Bob what is what is your thought on that. I absolutely agree with all points made. And all I would add is that. It's to to to embrace the solution where it's not necessarily about adding things. You know you don't buy your way out of. You don't buy your way out of the issue of climate change and add substantial extra complications etc etc. It's about good design and it's about efficient building structures and it's perfectly possible to build efficient building structures. It's it's about getting the information out there so people know how people don't know how to do it. People don't know where to put as I say the vapor barrier putting the vapor barrier in the right place in a home especially an air conditioned home is essential. And unfortunately building code when it was first designed did not anticipate that everybody was going to have an air conditioning unit. So the fact that you keep getting the building structure and the the drywall starts to deteriorate and get mold causes health issues. You have to rip it out. You have to start again. That's down to bad design and bad technique so we can change that. Thank you Bob. Bob Pearson Mike Reynolds eco home dot net and Gordon you you have such good intentions and such good ideas and such good friends. Thank you so much for setting this up. Aloha and thank you all so much and we look forward to building better for everyone. Yep smart in the operative word. Thank you gentlemen. As we say and we say in Cincinnati Aloha.